SH5 modding difficulties

[oskar123]

So, after browsing a bit here I have a few questions I have been unable to answer. What are the major difficulties? Why is it so hard to change some things (i.e. add playable ships) but others are no issue? I remember playable subs & ships in SH3 & 4, what changed?

What is this converter @Jeff-Groves is working on? I saw the donations recently closed. Is the project finished? Near finished?

Is there anything I can do to help? I have some minor modding experiences, mostly from paradox games which are probably easier, but I'm eager to learn!

Cheers Captains! :salute:

[gap]

So, after browsing a bit here I have a few questions I have been unable to answer. What are the major difficulties? Why is it so hard to change some things (i.e. add playable ships) but others are no issue? I remember playable subs & ships in SH3 & 4, what changed?

What is this converter @Jeff-Groves is working on? I saw the donations recently closed. Is the project finished? Near finished?

Is there anything I can do to help? I have some minor modding experiences, mostly from paradox games which are probably easier, but I'm eager to learn!

Cheers Captains! :salute:

Hi oskar123, nice question, my personal answers (I would be curious to know the opinion of other forum members though), are lack of modders and lack of a finished model editor.

Talking about the first point, you might have noticed that most new threads in the SH5 mod workshop section of this forum, are neither about new mods nor requests of support/information on the modding of something new, but rather requests of new features and/or requests of help on the usage of other's mods. The fact that some aspects of the game seem to have progressed a lot during the last years, while others didn't, is probably caused by the fact that some old modders who, in months and years of patient digging in the game files, had developed an insight of SH5's scripts, code, 3D format, etc. are no longer active now, and no one took over their work in the meanwhile.

One of those modder is TheDarkWraith, the author of many mods still used by the SH5 players, and coder of the only editor we have so far capable of handling GR2 files, the files where SH5 models are stored. Unfortunately he left when his brilliant tool was still far from perfection, which means that object-importing is still a pitifully slow process and with many limitations, and he didn't disclose the source-code of his tool, which means that a programmer wanting to "challenge" the secrets of the (proprietary) GR2 format, should start over from scratch instead of keeping on TDW's work :yep:

[oskar123]

Hi oskar123, nice question, my personal answers (I would be curious to know the opinion of other forum members though), are lack of modders and lack of a finished model editor.

Talking about the first point, you might have noticed that most new threads in the SH5 mod workshop section of this forum, are neither about new mods nor requests of support/information on the modding of something new, but rather requests of new features and/or requests of help on the usage of other's mods. The fact that some aspects of the game seem to have progressed a lot during the last years, while others didn't, is probably caused by the fact that some old modders who, in months and years of patient digging in the game files, had developed an insight of SH5's scripts, code, 3D format, etc. are no longer active now, and no one took over their work in the meanwhile.

One of those modder is TheDarkWraith, the author of many mods still used by the SH5 players, and coder of the only editor we have so far capable of handling GR2 files, the files where SH5 models are stored. Unfortunately he left when his brilliant tool was still far from perfection, which means that object-importing is still a pitifully slow process and with many limitations, and he didn't disclose the source-code of his tool, which means that a programmer wanting to "challenge" the secrets of the (proprietary) GR2 format, should start over from scratch instead of keeping on TDW's work :yep:

You may not be invested yourself but I'd be curious to know: what stops us from simply copying models from SH3/4 (other than the low poly count)? Format issues? It seems to me that the TWoS mod adds a few new ships to the game, so it's clearly been done before.

[gap]

You may not be invested yourself but I'd be curious to know: what stops us from simply copying models from SH3/4 (other than the low poly count)? Format issues? It seems to me that the TWoS mod adds a few new ships to the game, so it's clearly been done before.

I will try to answer your question with another question, but first let me start with a preamble.

There is a forum thread (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1644371#post1644371) which contains most of the information needed for making a basic but acceptably good ship conversion from SHIV (and SHIII) to SH5.
It is neither a comprensive tutorial, nor a ste-by-step guide; one needs to read the whole thread to get a wider picture, and even so, the picture that you will get will be far from complete, but at least that would be a starter. I think I moved some of my first modding steps in the Silent Hunter world from that thread: before reading it, and before trying to put that information in practice (with tens of mistakes done and twice as much lessons learned) I basically knew nothing about dat format, SH controllers, etc. I owe the little I know today to my curiosity which induced me to ask questions, and to the patience of other forum members and modding veterans, who kindly answered my questions. They have all my gratitude, but without my questions they probably wouldn't have been in the position to help me.

Now my question for you is: after the first wave of enthusiasm that followed the posting of the aforementioned thread by TDW, when many valiant (and now mostly retired) modders imported several new units in the game, how many new modders do you think tested themselves with ship/aircraft conversions?
Unfortunately I can't remember anyone but Vecko, the author of TWoS.
Why is that? Maybe that thread should have been stickied, maybe someone should have written a comprensive ship buiding/importing tutorial. Maybe we, as a modding community, could have made a better work in helping new members to move their first steps as potential modders, but how many people actually asked for this kind of help, and how many simply asked to see new ships and playable subs imported in game by someone else?

I'll leave you to answer that one :03:

[Jeff-Groves]

after the first wave of enthusiasm that followed the posting of the aforementioned thread by TDW, when many valiant (and now mostly retired) modders imported several new units in the game

And after that self glamorizing thread? How many Veteran modders stopped posting anything they knew or figured out? That post came AFTER I had released the Type 14 Alpha that had the damages thing figured out.
(I still have the original files for that 14 by the way!)
As I recall? I was one of the first to call the Devs on lack of the Unifiedrender controller issue.
Here's the greatest thing I can tell any one. Work together! Share what you find and help when you can. A lone modder will burn out when all his peers turn their backs on him!

There is a lot I have still not completed where SH5 is concerned. And a lot I have not even looked at for awhile.

[gap]

And after that self glamorizing thread? How many Veteran modders stopped posting anything they knew or figured out? That post came AFTER I had released the Type 14 Alpha that had the damages thing figured out.
(I still have the original files for that 14 by the way!)
As I recall? I was one of the first to call the Devs on lack of the Unifiedrender controller issue.

Fair enough but, self glamorizing or not, that thread had the merit not only of showing people something new that could be done, but also the one of explaining how to do that. That said, I can't say for sure whether TDW consciously "stole" your discovery, or rather he was simply inspired by some partial revelations by you, coming to your same conclusions, but we both know TDW and we know his strong ego and his inclination to put his name on any major discovery regarding SH5. Whatever of my previous assumptions was true, he should at least have credited you, but that's not even the point here: whoever has been hanging around subsim long enough, knows how much you did for our game (though often staying in the background), and be sure that when I talk about the valiant veteran modders to whom I am tied by sincere gratitude, your name is among the ones at the top of the list :yep:


Here's the greatest thing I can tell any one. Work together! Share what you find and help when you can. A lone modder will burn out when all his peers turn their backs on him!

:agree:

Seconded one thousand times!


There is a lot I have still not completed where SH5 is concerned. And a lot I have not even looked at for awhile.

Let's talk about that lot then! :O:

[oskar123]

But how many people actually asked for this kind of help?

There is one asking right now : )

Although my account may be several years old, I was 11 and just getting into SH4 when I created it. Hence the childish and very unoriginal username. I actually remember the specific ocasion, in a large chair at my grandmother's place.

Since then I've been through a lot, but I haven't been very active in the Silent Hunter community. As such, I know very little of whatever drama might exist between long-standing captains of the forum. In fact, I don't even know enough to answer your question, even though I think I can read the implied answer ; )

At 19 I'm only just gaining the computer knowledge and above all the tenacity to work with creating mods and the like.
The reason I created this thread in the first place was to try to get a grasp of the situation so I know in which end to start digging. I want to find as much information as possible and I thank you for the link to the thread you provided. More of that please! :haha: I'll read it through tomorrow after I sleep some.

Also, @jeff-groves, I still don't have my answer about that damn exporter! :damn:

Thanks both for taking time to reply! :salute:

[Seaowl]

Thanks Oskar123 for raising this topic.
There are so many ships in SH3 and SH4, that would be absolutely georgeous to have in SH5 too: for exemple TheFrogs Fleet, Texelbos French Fleet or Wise and Kovalls M04B/MX04B to name only a few of them.

As far as I know, it isn´t too difficult to make them show up somehow in SH5 - I tried it myself.
But thats just the beginning, and here the real trouble with wakes, transparency, lightmaps, damage zones and shadows starts: and as far as I grasp the essence of the thread Gap linked above right, there is no real solution for some of these, unless you are able to convert .dats to .GR2 files.

As I remember right, it was in a thread of yours, Gap, I recently came across a file, wherein the terrain editors are explained. Never heard about before, but great stuff. As far as time allows, I will try to import Flakmonkeys lighthouse to SH5 using object editor. Some time ago, I tried to place it via misfiles, but it never shows up.

No one can imagine, how annoyed I am about these quickly fading lighthouses, fixed to the harbours. Especially because lighthouses would be such a great addition to the real navigation mod of TWOS. But this is a theme for a thread on it´s own.

[Jeff-Groves]

Sorry gap.
I try to forget past transgressions but I am Human and a bit flakey and touchy at times.
:D

I have pulled the old Type 14 files back out from the crypt though.
I even have the original mission I did for testing!
We're talking files that pre-date the Unifiedrender controllers being added to SH5 by several months!
:doh:

Now if I could just find the Open Bunker files!

[oskar123]

Thanks Oskar123 for raising this topic.
There are so many ships in SH3 and SH4, that would be absolutely georgeous to have in SH5 too: for exemple TheFrogs Fleet, Texelbos French Fleet or Wise and Kovalls M04B/MX04B to name only a few of them.

As far as I know, it isn´t too difficult to make them show up somehow in SH5 - I tried it myself.
But thats just the beginning, and here the real trouble with wakes, transparency, lightmaps, damage zones and shadows starts: and as far as I grasp the essence of the thread Gap linked above right, there is no real solution for some of these, unless you are able to convert .dats to .GR2 files.

As I remember right, it was in a thread of yours, Gap, I recently came across a file, wherein the terrain editors are explained. Never heard about before, but great stuff. As far as time allows, I will try to import Flakmonkeys lighthouse to SH5 using object editor. Some time ago, I tried to place it via misfiles, but it never shows up.

No one can imagine, how annoyed I am about these quickly fading lighthouses, fixed to the harbours. Especially because lighthouses would be such a great addition to the real navigation mod of TWOS. But this is a theme for a thread on it´s own.

Looked through some of the ships added by TWoS in the musem and it's true that they all lacked shadows. I'm assuming the problems with the damage model have been fixed or they surely wouldn't be added to such a high profile mod?
The wakes looked just as good as the original ships'. I'm mostly (currently at least) concerned with the playability of the mod. As long as the added ships look like ships, act like ships and (most importantly) sink like ships, fancy things like shadows can wait.

Have there ever been playable subs/ships added to this game? What are the difficulties in that compared to adding new merchants? I'm assuming the first person walk-around has something to do with it but surely there must be a work-around?

[Seaowl]

There is a thread around about the difficulties of adding a Type IX to SH5. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=233811

As far as I know, it´s impossible to add shadows and to see the hull below the waterline on imported ships. Wakes, damage models an so on are possible, but a heck of a work.
Hence respect for the great work that was done in TWOS.

Moreover I´m not sure, if it´s possible to add as much .dats to SH5 as you want to or if at some point you will run into stability issues.
Would be interested in the answer too.

[oskar123]

I see. Do you know why it's impossible to make the hull visible under water?

And since the man himself doesnt seem to answer, what is this (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=226836&page=23) all about? Will this solve any of the above mentioned issues?

I'd love to get into modding Silent Hunter 5 (I was thinking about a playable XXI..) but if it's literally impossible I don't want to waste my time.

[Seaowl]

To be honest: I have no more insight in these things than you and like you, I don´t know more, as I have read in these threads around here.
Best thing would probably be to start importing a non playable unit as explained by TheDarkWraith in the thread linked above and to ask for help, if a precise problem arises.
Later on, when you are common with the basics, you can estimate by yourself, what it would take to create a playable unit. I have no clue if it´s possible or not.
But hopefully someone else can give you a better answer.
:salute:

[oskar123]

Obviously I wouldn't start with something that advanced, even I am not that arrogant. I'm just hoping for an overview of the problems so I know where to start. I can see you've only been on this forum for a few months yourself so don't worry about it. I was hoping one of the more experienced modders would answer.

I desperately want a playable XXI in SH5, but if I can't make it work with the water effects I might as well play SH3 :D

And I still don't know what jeff's exporter is about. Even after browsing through the thread the best I could find were some vague references as to what it might do. Maybe it will render all these questions obsolete?

Either way, I thank you for your time! Happy hunting Herr Kaleun :salute:

[Jeff-Groves]

The exporter is the original version used by the Devs to create the GR2 files.
Not cheap nor easy to get.

Since We can not create new working GR2's the only way to go forward is to buy it.

That has been explained.

You REALLY want to mod? Let me teach you about 010.
:03:

[gap]

Nice discussion going on here guys: :up:

@ oskar123

Low poly count is not (always) a big issue; some models that have been released for SHIII and SHIV are even more detailed/accurate than SH5 ones, but there are several other limits inherent to the dat format or to the way old models are built. In confirmation of Seaowl's remark, here are some of the main minus points of the units imported directly from older SH games:


SH5 makes an extensive use of normal maps (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_mapping) (for creating the illusion of more detailed/rough surfaces) and ambient occlusion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambient_occlusion) maps (for increasing the perception of 3D volumes, for painting camo schemes on top of the regular textures and for adding dirt/rust to them). Unfortunatelu SHIII has only limited support for normal and ambient occlusion maps; that means that all the ship models imported from that game lack those features and they look a bit lavished in SH5. The missing maps can be created manually, but doing that slows down the import process, especially for a.o. maps that require being mapped on a different UV projection (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UV_mapping) than the regular textures.


Conversely, SHIV fully supports normal and a.o. maps, but those textures are added to each model by means of the unified render controller, a controller native to SHIV. This controller works in SH5 too, and it is needed for ships imported in SH5 to look up to par, but IIRC it is not compatible with GR2 objects. Use a GR2 equipment on a dat ship with the said controller, and that equipment will look totally black in game. That means that, if we want dat ships to look as good as they look in SHIV, we need to import them together with their (dat) guns, even though those guns are already in the SH5 library folder (as gr2 objects).


Unlike SH5, SHIII ships have no internal parts modelled. When they break in half no 3D compartments and crumpled metal are visible, but just smooth surfaces closing the broken hull ends. More or less the same goes for torpedo holes: they are decals rather than real holes. A basic 3D model of ship interiors could be added but again: doing that will take time.


Unlike gr2 units, the underwater part of dat-format hulls in not visible when looking at them from above the water and it looks blurred when seen underwater (unless one places the camera so that the projection of the submerged object overlaps the water surface). These glitches could possibly be fixed only by editing SH5 shaders, if you can figure out their code.


Shadows are a broken feature in SHIII that, I think, was fixed in SHIV; anyway I seem to remember that SHIV shadows never worked in SH5 as granny-format shadows used in the latter game are computed in a completely different way. I could be wrong on that, but no shadows with dat ships in SH5


SH5 has a slightly different damage format that its predecessors. When the game was released, hull vicinity didn't trigger magnetic pistols. Paradoxically, after importing the first dat ships, it was discovered that unlike stock (gr2) ships the new (dat) ships could be sunk with magnetic torpedoes. At some point TDW created a patch that fixed magnetic detonations for gr2 ships, but messed it up for dat ships, so now you have to choose. I don't think you can get both unit types to break apart with a well placed magnetic torpedo.


GR2 units support LOD models; dat units don't.


Those are all the issues that I can think of, but I go by memory and I might have missed something or listed an inconvenience that has been worked-around in the meanwhile. Anyway, given these limits, when importing new ships, aircraft or submarines it would be difficult to obtain a qualitative level comparable to that of stock units if we only rely on the dat format and, with the tools we have currently available, converting whichever unit/model of some complexity to the gr2 format would be a slow and tourtuous process, though not impossible in theory.
That said, several dat ships have been imported in game, and though not perfect, they look and perform acceptably good in most situations. If we always aimed at perfection and waited for someone else to clear the path for us, the history of subsim modding would be probably stuck to the first Silent Hunter, so don't be afraid to be arrogant; be curious instead and follow Seaowl's or Jeff-Groves's advise: you will learn something new, and if you get stuck you can always ask here :03:

[oskar123]

@jeff

I've been reading basically non-stop on this forum the last few days and grown wiser between every post.

From what I've understood so far, the only way to make ships with proper shaders and water transparancy is through the GR2 format, which is copyright locked. So, what you've done is buy user rights. Have I understood it correctly?

I'd love to help, be aware though that I'm a total newbie so I'll have to learn basically from scratch. I've done some modding as stated before but never worked with Silent Hunter before.

I've found very little info on the progress you've made. Is the exporter usable in it's current state? What needs to be done? And where is the rebel base?

Regards, Oskar

[gap]

@ Jeff

No need to say sorry mate. I am glad that you found your old files! :yeah:

I have received your e-amails but as I had anticipated I was busy with family in the last couple of days and I had no time to give you feed-back. No doubt, I will do that tomorrow. :salute:

@ Seaowl

I definitely agree with you about the beauty of the ships by the modders you have mentioned, and I hope too to see them in SH5 too!

Talking about lighthouses, I have gained some experience with them while helping Kendras with his own Lighthouse mod (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2451598#post2451598) for SHIII, and I have several lighthouse and daymark models ready or semi-ready too.

In my opinion the best way to set up lighthouses in game, is as land units. Doing that not only bypasses the problem of too short model fading ranges (that I am also facing with my EcoMod), but it enables us to customize each model via eqp/cfg files, and it makes possible for models to appear/disappear or to be darkened based on game date. :yep:

Lighthouse and other beacons, as well as more historically correct ports, channels, etc. might be another feature of the EcoMod if you guys like the idea :up:

[oskar123]

@gap

Thanks! That was exactly the kind of overview I was looking for.

[Jeff-Groves]

The over view is not exactly correct.
:03:

"Unlike SH5, SHIII and SHIV ships have no internal parts modeled."
Wrong. SH4 Units have internal damages 3D models.
You can see from TDW's thread that it is working in a minor way in SH5.

Now take in to account that gap and I may have forgotten more then most people know!

[gap]

"Unlike SH5, SHIII and SHIV ships have no internal parts modeled."
Wrong. SH4 Units have internal damages 3D models.

Maybe only some of them, or perhaps I am looking at the wrong model part. This is stock SHIV's Somers DD :hmm2:

https://i.imgur.com/oVOxycR.png


Now take in to account that gap and I may have forgotten more then most people know!

Possibly yes :haha:

[Jeff-Groves]

LOL!! You didn't check the show hidden objects thing Mate!
:har:
That Unit has internal damages 3D object!

One thing not implemented in the SH3 to SH4 converter was the ability to take the damages from any ship and import to a converted ship.

Speaking of that converter? It's a great start for doing SH3 ships to SH5! No more hand editing!

[oskar123]

I actually knew that already ^^

I've spent a lot of time playing around with SH4

Either way, what is 010? Teach me!

[gap]

LOL!! You didn't check the show hidden objects thing Mate!
:har:
That Unit has internal damages 3D object!

I did. That part is normally hidden. I hid the main model and toggled on the visibility of NDD_Somers_B before taking that screenshot. Am I missing something else :06:


One thing not implemented in the SH3 to SH4 converter was the ability to take the damages from any ship and import to a converted ship.

Speaking of that converter? It's a great start for doing SH3 ships to SH5! No more hand editing!

You are teaching me something new here; I wasn't aware about that converter. Where can I download it from? :D

@gap

Thanks! That was exactly the kind of overview I was looking for.

You welcome oskar. I am glad that you found it useful :salute:

[Jeff-Groves]

I did. That part is normally hidden. I hid the main model and toggled on the visibility of NDD_Somers_B before taking that screenshot. Am I missing something else :06:

Have S3D show you all hidden objects or check node 103.
then do a view and have it show only solo mode.
You'll get a pop up.
:03:

[Jeff-Groves]

I actually knew that already ^^

I've spent a lot of time playing around with SH4

Either way, what is 010? Teach me!

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=239565

Years of time wasted having fun is about to explode!

[gap]

Have S3D show you all hidden objects or check node 103.
then do a view and have it show only solo mode.
You'll get a pop up.
:03:

You are right: I had overlooked that damage model. I stand corrected :up:

Tell me something about the SHIII to SHIV model converter, please. Where can we get it from? :)

[Jeff-Groves]

Look in the SH4 mod shop.
You MIGHT find it.
:haha:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=239270

[gap]

Look in the SH4 mod shop.
You MIGHT find it.
:haha:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=239270

I ACCIDENTALLY stumbled upon it while taking a glance at post #1 in that thread. Brilliant tool, thank you for sharing Jeff! :up:

[Jeff-Groves]

That was what was to be used for GWX 4 back in the day.
There was no S3D and many Units to convert.

[gap]

That was what was to be used for GWX 4 back in the day.
There was no S3D and many Units to convert.

I will never get tired of showing all my gratitude toward the subsim buddies who made our lives easier giving us tools, and towards the badass pioneers who had to do without those tools lol :D

[Seaowl]

@Jeff-Groves
Thanks to you and to ref for this fine tool. Will try it out immediateley.

@gap
Have to agree with oskar123: Great overview, that answers a lot of questions.
The information contained in your posting should be stickied in some way.

And what a question to ask, if we are interested in enhanced ports and channels?
Let me answer anticipating without hesitation everyone else`s opinion: Of course we are!
For my part I`am following the lighthouse threat with great interest and awaiting eagerly every new version of the Ecomod.
In my view these are exactly the things that are lacking at this point in SH5.
:up:

Meanwhile I have realized, that object editor is only able to place GR2 files.
So I will take the „Ehrenmal“-files in Twos as example and trying it this way round as you proposed…
experimenting a bit.

[oskar123]

How does the exporter tool work with regards to implementing a new ship? Can it simply convert a .dat ship or is there more to it? I assume the latter. Will we have to build models from scratch?

I'm also wondering about the licensing deal you got; I assume any of us can't just download the exporter ourselves? If (god forbid) jeff should suddenly go missing like TDW, what will happen?

[gap]

@gap
Have to agree with oskar123: Great overview, that answers a lot of questions.
The information contained in your posting should be stickied in some way.

Always glad to help, if I can :up:

There is something that I forgot mentioning: at times dat ships are rendered in game totally black . I don't know if this glitch is tied to dat units in general, or to some specific unit but it seems to happen more often with some ships than with others. A good example of dat ships prone to this kind of bug is TWoS/OHII's hospital ship IIRC. Maybe Vecko has managed solving the problem, but the lastt time I had a look into it, textures and materials looked in order.


And what a question to ask, if we are interested in enhanced ports and channels?
Let me answer anticipating without hesitation everyone else`s opinion: Of course we are!

:up:


For my part I`am following the lighthouse threat with great interest and awaiting eagerly every new version of the Ecomod.
In my view these are exactly the things that are lacking at this point in SH5.
:up:

New playable subs and many new ships and aircraft would be cool to :03:


Meanwhile I have realized, that object editor is only able to place GR2 files.
So I will take the „Ehrenmal“-files in Twos as example and trying it this way round as you proposed…
experimenting a bit.

You can use this other workaround: take any simple terrain object (the German church is perfect for this purpose), duplicate it and rename it however you want, run terrain editor and place it where you want the dat-format lighthouse to be. When you have finished (don't forget to save before you exit TE) MapObjects.ini will be updated with the new location; open that file in notepad, look for the recently added object, and replace its name with the name of the lighthouse. Let me know if it works :salute:

[Seaowl]

New playable subs and many new ships and aircraft would be cool to

Yeah, but without enhanced ports the next imported vessel should be some large container ship, painted in weird camouflage patterns.
My captains here are complaining bitterly about this strange drawn-out crates, which
do not fit into the holds of their ships and are blocking the docks unnecessarily. :03:
Tought I have seen recently some nice looking cargo in GR2 format into the library. Could be trying something myself.

You can use this other workaround: take any simple terrain object (the German church is perfect for this purpose), duplicate it and rename it however you want, run terrain editor and place it where you want the dat-format lighthouse to be. When you have finished (don't forget to save before you exit TE) MapObjects.ini will be updated with the new location; open that file in notepad, look for the recently added object, and replace its name with the name of the lighthouse. Let me know if it works

It really works!
Great workaround! Thank you a lot! :yeah:

Flakmonkeys lighthouse is still looking great now in SH5. Only drawback: the model has obviously the same LOD-trouble like Lange Anna in Helgoland.
Later today I will open up an own lighthouse thread for SH5 and post some screens. :up:

[Jeff-Groves]

IF the dat has the Unifiedrender controller?
There is an LOD setting. Try changing those.
If your using an SH3 file? Run SH3 to SH4 on it and it will update the files to SH4 standards.

[Jeff-Groves]

Always glad to help, if I can :up:

There is something that I forgot mentioning: at times dat ships are rendered in game totally black . I don't know if this glitch is tied to dat units in general, or to some specific unit but it seems to happen more often with some ships than with others. A good example of dat ships prone to this kind of bug is TWoS/OHII's hospital ship IIRC. Maybe Vecko has managed solving the problem, but the lastt time I had a look into it, textures and materials looked in order.




Can you sent me the files for that Unit?

Edit: Never mind. Dl'd the install and found a reference in the roster files that point to a Normals texture that does not exist.
NHOSP does have the normals UV's but no Normals texture is in it's folder.
NSHOS does NOT have Normals UV's so should NOT have a Normals texture pointed to it.

Solution should be to add the normals texture to NHOSP folder and then delete the Roster NSOHP pointer to the Normals texture.

Now a simple way to check ALL dat files for the second or Normals UV mappings?
Run a scan with 010 to find all files that contain TMAP
Searching only .dat files.

[Seaowl]

IF the dat has the Unifiedrender controller?
There is an LOD setting. Try changing those.
If your using an SH3 file? Run SH3 to SH4 on it and it will update the files to SH4 standards.

Gosh! Jeff, thank you! I had deleted all controllers inside the .dat, because I tought it is necessary to rebuild them separately into a .sim file with granny editor.
But now I took simply the original file and it works. Lighthouse is not fading, fresnel is working. :up:
Have to test a little bit more, how far away the light is visible etc.

[Jeff-Groves]

Gosh! Jeff, thank you! I had deleted all controllers inside the .dat, because I tought it is necessary to rebuild them separately into a .sim file with granny editor.
But now I took simply the original file and it works. Lighthouse is not fading, fresnel is working. :up:
Have to test a little bit more, how far away the light is visible etc.

You converted the original with SH3 to SH4?

[Seaowl]

No, I took the original SH3 .dat.
Had to extract it from a harborkit respectively I deleted the harborkit around the lighthouse + texture knots.
The converter closed with the error message: list index out of bounds (0)
Probably because the messy way of extraction or because I use only the .dat without any .cfg or roster file?

[Jeff-Groves]

No, I took the original SH3 .dat.
Had to extract it from a harborkit respectively I deleted the harborkit around the lighthouse + texture knots.
The converter closed with the error message: list index out of bounds (0)
Probably because the messy way of extraction or because I use only the .dat without any .cfg or roster file?
Yes. No support files throws that error.
It's not a perfect Tool for some needs.
S3D you can add the Unifiedrender controller.

[Seaowl]

Thanks again.
Will try to add unifiedrender controller.
Atm I´m starting some night mission to see how far the lighthouse flare is visible.
Scenery is Elbe mouth near Brunsbüttel, Gap`s Ecomod activated.
:salute:

[gap]

Sorry for the late replies guys :D

Yeah, but without enhanced ports the next imported vessel should be some large container ship, painted in weird camouflage patterns.
My captains here are complaining bitterly about this strange drawn-out crates, which
do not fit into the holds of their ships and are blocking the docks unnecessarily. :03:
Tought I have seen recently some nice looking cargo in GR2 format into the library. Could be trying something myself.

I am sorry to disappoint you but I think there were neither intermodal containers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermodal_container#History) nor container ships (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container_ship#History) until late 40s - early 50s, the earliest cointaner ships being T2 tankers converted post WWII :)

Prior to their advent, general cargo ships and bulk carriers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulk_carrier#History) were used instead. The latter category was not very common though as it was mostly limited to coastal traffic.


It really works!
Great workaround! Thank you a lot! :yeah:

:up:


Flakmonkeys lighthouse is still looking great now in SH5. Only drawback: the model has obviously the same LOD-trouble like Lange Anna in Helgoland.
Later today I will open up an own lighthouse thread for SH5 and post some screens. :up:

IF the dat has the Unifiedrender controller?
There is an LOD setting. Try changing those.
If your using an SH3 file? Run SH3 to SH4 on it and it will update the files to SH4 standards.

Gosh! Jeff, thank you! I had deleted all controllers inside the .dat, because I tought it is necessary to rebuild them separately into a .sim file with granny editor.
But now I took simply the original file and it works. Lighthouse is not fading, fresnel is working. :up:
Have to test a little bit more, how far away the light is visible etc.

MinRenderDim: that's probably the controller that fixed the too short lighthouse LOD distance. Unfortunately the Unifiedrender controller is not compatible with GR2 objects, but I am going to check if MinRenderDim can be used instead. I think it won't work, but you never know...

Can you sent me the files for that Unit?

Edit: Never mind. Dl'd the install and found a reference in the roster files that point to a Normals texture that does not exist.
NHOSP does have the normals UV's but no Normals texture is in it's folder.
NSHOS does NOT have Normals UV's so should NOT have a Normals texture pointed to it.

Solution should be to add the normals texture to NHOSP folder and then delete the Roster NSOHP pointer to the Normals texture.

Now a simple way to check ALL dat files for the second or Normals UV mappings?
Run a scan with 010 to find all files that contain TMAP
Searching only .dat files.

Well spotted Jeff. I will check that and inform Vecko as soon as I will see him online :up:

[Seaowl]

No need for excuses! We are all doing this in our spare time.

If its like you said, that there will be no containership until late 40, what for Neptunes sake shall we do with all these containers in SH5 ports?
And why there are container cranes?
:03:
Annoyed by them I tried once some reskin with crate textures, but the outcome looked uglier than before.
Not only the mapping is confusing, but its difficult to match this greyish colour temper.
However to tell the truth, this is some minor problem.

As I saw this beautiful lighthouse with his great texture in SH5, I fear I became a little bit too enthusiastic.
Tweaking the ParticleGenerator does nothing.
At about 3500m away the lighthouse become visible from the bridge of the Uboat.
(But only if there is at least the water reflection controller inside the dat, even if there is obviously no water reflection.
When I delete this controller, than the lighthouse starts popping up at close distance.)
The flare is switched on suddenly at about 2700m.
Will playing around with goblineditor and contollers (trying this MinRenderDim too) and reporting, if something is changing.

In opposite the flares of the lightship is visible at long range about 17km.
Its pretty cool to see them appearing at the horizon.
Obviously other rules for sea units, than for land units.
At the moment I do some testing if visibility at sea depends partly on the height of the light source, trying to place the lightship laterns on higher masts.
:salute:

[gap]

No need for excuses! We are all doing this in our spare time.

Thank you for your understanding :salute:


If its like you said, that there will be no containership until late 40, what for Neptunes sake shall we do with all these containers in SH5 ports?
And why there are container cranes?
:03:

Containerships and intermodal containers not being in use until late 40s doens't mean our grandpa's had no shipping containers at all. Wooden crates and other types of non-standardized metal containers were probably used instead, and they needed gantry cranes to load/unload them. I think they used pallets and metal nets for linking many small crates together and speeding up the loading process.


Annoyed by them I tried once some reskin with crate textures, but the outcome looked uglier than before.
Not only the mapping is confusing, but its difficult to match this greyish colour temper.
However to tell the truth, this is some minor problem.

I seemed to remember that the stock containers already looked like crates, but going by your statements above, I am obviously wrong. Completely re-skinning them without redoing their UV map is probably not going to be possible, but we can replace them with whatever we prefer, or even remove them. That is going to be a laborious task, but definitely possible :yep:


As I saw this beautiful lighthouse with his great texture in SH5, I fear I became a little bit too enthusiastic.
Tweaking the ParticleGenerator does nothing.
At about 3500m away the lighthouse become visible from the bridge of the Uboat.
(But only if there is at least the water reflection controller inside the dat, even if there is obviously no water reflection.
When I delete this controller, than the lighthouse starts popping up at close distance.)
The flare is switched on suddenly at about 2700m.
Will playing around with goblineditor and contollers (trying this MinRenderDim too) and reporting, if something is changing.

If the particle generator as a GlobalScale and GlobalScaleFar factor, try increasing their Distance parameter...


In opposite the flares of the lightship is visible at long range about 17km.
Its pretty cool to see them appearing at the horizon.
Obviously other rules for sea units, than for land units.

I think there's some confusion here: I thought that you had set the lighthouse as a terrain object (placed using TE). If that is the case, you can convert it in a land unit (placed using ME). There are many advantages in doing that, and one of them could be longer LOD ranges, but their addition to the game will probably require a campaign restart :yep:


At the moment I do some testing if visibility at sea depends partly on the height of the light source, trying to place the lightship laterns on higher masts.
:salute:

I don't think height on the horizon is taken into account for object visibility, but you better test it in game :up: