Feature Requests for v1.10 and beyond - Part 1 [Archive]

GSmith63

01-05-18, 09:31 PM

Really, really enjoying this game, and especially the latest improvements in 1.09e. Hats off to the Killerfish team for the great continuing customer support. With that said I’d love to see some of the following improvements in upcoming versions, and hear other’s thoughts.

Part 1 - The Game

1. Allow Active Intercept System to be used for target detection, limited TMA. Regardless of the likely classified capabilities of these systems, I think it is logical to assume that a sub’s active intercept system can be used to initially detect a contact, start a contact track, and possibly to do some rudimentary form of TMA and classification. For TMA, maybe just give it the same capabilities as a regular sonar hearing a faint signal with a small bearing rate change.

2. Quicker TMA solution when holding a contact on both hull and towed sonar. I started a separate thread on this last month but wanted to include it here as well. Taking simultaneous readings from two passive sonars 2,000 feet apart should provide enough basic triangulation to at least eliminate a number of possible target range/course combinations and speed up the TMA process, especially at the short tactical ranges in CW.

3. Start Further Away from Contacts. Especially in 1.09 I seem to always start nearly in active sonar range of the bad guys, which does not seem very realistic. Allow us to start up to 40,000 yards away from contacts, which is probably a more realistic passive direct path range for initial contact of many surface ships, especially tankers, amphibs, etc.

4. More music. I think the music in the game is fantastic, especially the slower parts. However, it does get a little repetitive over time. Adding more music would help keep the game fresh.

More to follow on campaign stuff...

Gregg

Reds

01-16-18, 05:43 PM

These suggestions make sense.

Killerfish Games

01-16-18, 06:32 PM

They do and we read them all so thanks for sharing.

Delgard

01-16-18, 10:14 PM

Music comes from a sonar headset...

Capt.Hunt

01-17-18, 06:16 PM

the music does create great ambiance in the game, but occasionally the ambiance interferes with the tactical picture. Sometimes, during tense moments you get a chord that sound a lot like a series of sonar pings.

Delgard

01-17-18, 08:06 PM

Over the years I always had it off. I just turned it off on day 1. But, since the Big K-Fish might be around, I am sure it is lovely music.

Although, if there was a button to start the Jaws movie music...that way, when my torpedo acquires the target, I could hit the button and have appropriate music.

We need a button, yep.

GeneralGamer

01-18-18, 12:58 AM

They do and we read them all so thanks for sharing.

Hopefully you could add time enough in port on the first mission to change stores. Otherwise the first mission is always a failure due to lost time.

If your mission is to sink a Carrier group, TLAMS are useless and something you don't need for the mission. But change them out for something else and you fail the first mission because you run out of time, every time:timeout:. Very annoying.

Thanks FOR LISTENING AND GREAT GAME!!

_DoomGuy

01-18-18, 10:42 AM

This is my list of demands, and I say demands because this two tinny things really feel like cheating:
1.-when an enemy launches a torpedo, transient is announced and is as well displayed for a second in the map, so that it reveals the enemy position
2.-Same happens with knuckle forms and decoys, but worse because they stay on the map.

To be realistic those things should be announced as bearings only, not true positions

Capt Jack Harkness

01-20-18, 09:39 PM

2. Quicker TMA solution when holding a contact on both hull and towed sonar. I started a separate thread on this last month but wanted to include it here as well. Taking simultaneous readings from two passive sonars 2,000 feet apart should provide enough basic triangulation to at least eliminate a number of possible target range/course combinations and speed up the TMA process, especially at the short tactical ranges in CW.

I'd always heard that the early towed arrays don't have that great of bearing resolution. If you were triangulating with the two sensors they would both need equally high bearing resolution to give you an accurate result.

Delgard

01-20-18, 10:20 PM

Be nice if Jonesy called out the bearing for each enemy torpedo launch, if actually hearable. If it is going to show up on the screen, someone should call it out.

I imagine that a lot of info is flying around the control area. That is a watchful team.

Capt.Hunt

01-20-18, 11:56 PM

Hopefully you could add time enough in port on the first mission to change stores. Otherwise the first mission is always a failure due to lost time.

If your mission is to sink a Carrier group, TLAMS are useless and something you don't need for the mission. But change them out for something else and you fail the first mission because you run out of time, every time:timeout:. Very annoying.

Thanks FOR LISTENING AND GREAT GAME!!
You must go through a lot of torpedoes on missions, you don't really need to off load those TLAMs, because even with them on board, you should have enough fish to deal with a few surface contacts.

3catcircus

01-21-18, 02:31 PM

I'd like to see a clock and I'd like to see a dot stack plot.

GSmith63

01-21-18, 06:39 PM

I'd always heard that the early towed arrays don't have that great of bearing resolution. If you were triangulating with the two sensors they would both need equally high bearing resolution to give you an accurate result.

I agree CAPT Jack. My initial suggestion was only that the amount of time for a TMA solution be lessened somewhat, not that we would get an instant fix on the target. Even with low bearing resolution, you should still be able to use the towed array to narrow down the possible target locations along the contact's bearing line from the bow sonar.

ragnar1242

02-02-18, 04:56 PM

I just want a little more in depth ESM. In game stuff is not anywhere as useful as it could be

GSmith63

02-02-18, 07:28 PM

I just want a little more in depth ESM. In game stuff is not anywhere as useful as it could be

Like.

Delgard

02-02-18, 07:53 PM

Yes, ESM. It does not seem to show bearing, let alone type radar.

The sonar guys don't give call-outs to torpedoes as they are detected along their route. They pop up on the screen occasionally, but no one mentions them.

GravityWave

02-03-18, 03:43 PM

1) An extra alternate key assignment: basically multi-button mse support (mse btn or key), but for the lefties too

2) Retain camera position for individual TMA objects: I've been using the click to select feature on the TMA (rather that just the FN keys) for camera control. Re-orienting the camera is a bit annoying. Sometimes its just fun to watch that 'little torp' creeping up on ya, while evading, from its view. TMA map clicks are also nice for verifying wrecks and looking around without having to go there and check. Kind of cheating, but the camera is anyway and the boat is already down, soo ...

3) Range circles/vectors on the TMA map: Using the heading or torp vectors to judge distances is awkward.

4) The small TMA map should still show a small text indicator of the grid size.

5) Clock and timer on the bridge

6) Maybe include some drills when transiting? Fire, flooding, collision, etc. I'm not too sure about this one, but it might be interesting for varying initial contacts if the boat isn't just patrolling. Or even just too add an additional (unexpected) mission type. The sea is the enemy.

GravityWave

02-03-18, 04:10 PM

The Bandit

02-03-18, 07:59 PM

I second the request for the dot plot indicator. (I'm thinking for TMA bearing analysis and ranging ?). Half the game is figuring out where and when to shoot.

Also, don't some/most torp's have an acceleration upon target acquisition? I'm thinking of the associated range reduction for an early enabler that then burns fuel up before they know where they're heading. And that faster speed is what the target has to evade.

Not sure about reality but the fish do have different pre-enabled / enabled and seeking speed. Never seen them accelerate on acquisition before aside from coming out of their search pattern.

Capt. Morgan

02-06-18, 04:52 PM

I'm thinking that with the big improvements added to 1.09e, it might be easier to add some variety to CW.

I'd say that almost all neutral contacts I encounter are trawlers, It would certainly make the game more nerve-wracking to have a wider range of neutral vessels to have to sort out.

Also, having transits to missions occasionally interrupted by contact with neutral or friendly vessels, I've only ever bumped into Soviet assets so far. Having Rules of Engagement modeled with friendly units would be a bonus - such as an extremely low but ever present chance of being attacked if detected, and an instant order to RTB with subsequent court martial should you sink one.

More mission types, like just being ordered to patrol a certain area (wouldn't have to be counted as a mission - just an order until a real mission happens), or recon missions (handled like a spec-ops but with no weapons restrictions - having single or multiple connected zones - completed when you raise periscope in each). Mine laying (again modeled on spec-ops, only loading mines instead of troops - You'd just need a different icon as the same restrictions on weapons would apply), Baltic missions - maybe spy insertions, just like spec-ops but without the weapon restrictions).

[edit] I've just started playing at realistic level, so my apologies if any of these suggestions are already implemented at realistic or elite levels... and that since posting this, I'm running into every kind of neutral ship except trawlers

seenittwice.pt

02-12-18, 06:22 AM

Hull popping with change of depth....?

Delgard

02-12-18, 07:47 AM

I wondered if hull popping was represented in the coding. Also, is it defeatable by a slower rise angle?

Mspot

02-13-18, 12:26 AM

How about hull sounds as the boat goes deep, deeper....then again as it rises?

Delgard

02-13-18, 05:59 AM

ragnar1242

02-16-18, 05:52 PM

6) Maybe include some drills when transiting? Fire, flooding, collision, etc. I'm not too sure about this one, but it might be interesting for varying initial contacts if the boat isn't just patrolling. Or even just too add an additional (unexpected) mission type. The sea is the enemy.

Instead of drills lets just have random dryer fires lol

LoBlo

02-19-18, 06:36 PM

Whenever we choose to expand the map (and minimize the 3D renders) can we have a small window in the corner that continues to show the 3D renders? Dangerous Waters had something similar.

lb

MikeS369

02-19-18, 07:09 PM

Some way to mark the map and a clock would be nice.

Delgard

02-19-18, 08:09 PM

Yes, projecting a previous contact by previous known location/speed over distance based upon the time that has passed.

Lonny007

02-22-18, 02:09 PM

Be careful what you wish for, you could end up wrecking what appears to be a Great game like they did with Atlantic Fleet. Apparently these games are so complex that any upgrade or patch could cause a nasty freeze in game that the creator can not find the cause or fix then we will be left with a game that will always lock up and freeze, nothing like wasted time spent in a battle to have the game lock up and freeze with no way to save the game during lenghty battles in Atlantic Fleet, Also with the way we have to purchase games today, the download is updated with the latest version no way to go back to the previous version before the creator wrecked thier game like Atlantic Fleet. Keeping my fingers crossed that all these new feature request for Cold Waters do not end up wrecking the game for all of us. I will have to make copys of this version or backup my hardrive with this version of Cold Waters and turn update game off if possible for steam and GoG just to make sure i have a Great working version of Cold Waters before the next upgrade. I wish I would have saved the Atlantic Fleet version before the last patch, now my Atlantic Fleet campigns playing as Germans is ruined for ever, the creator has given up trying to find the lock up bug that was incorporated in the last upgrade patch. Players You have been warned your wishes could come back to haunt us for ever, please make sure your wish is significant and good for all of us. For proof of what i am talking about You could read the recent post here on Subsim under Atlantic Fleet catagory. Keeping my fingers crossed that the next upgrade patch does not wreck the game, apparently these complex games are extremely fragile. Good Luck to all of us and to the Creator Killfish!

Delgard

02-22-18, 08:10 PM

Hey, Torpedoman Lonny, Courage! Bravery! and Perseverance! in the Barents Sea!

AND, its not like I asked for my own Sea-Doo strapped to the deck.

Your analysis may very well be true, and I am not the one that makes the final decision on new sub components. Admirals and high-paid consultants get to make those decisions. If the software won't support something, they will know it or discover it in initial testing.

A Sea-Doo and a K-Bar knife and no Soviet vessel is safe from me! That's all I ask for.

:D

Mspot

02-22-18, 10:12 PM

Hull-popping, up or down, would have to be across the board for both sides. Another input by the sonar team.

Also, the sonar team calling out bearings for torpedo launches to go with the little green flash that visually disappears so quickly.

I was referring to us hearing the sounds of our own sub as we descend and ascend, not the sonar man calling it out -- similar to Tom Clancy's SSN game and Janes 688i and follow on games.

Delgard

02-22-18, 10:21 PM

Would it just be a sound file that is programed to play during certain event, ie ascending or descending.

Could the sonar operator play that sound when he hears another nearby sub doing it?

Rufus Shinra

02-23-18, 10:34 AM

If I had one request, which, I suppose, could be done through mods, it would be the addition of a "Hollywood mode" for the game, to use the really great visuals for guilty pleasure between a few realistic campaigns. Maybe some tweaked values to make dodging torpedoes more spectacular, having torpedoes exploding dramatically near the submarine after being dodged, that kind of thing.

Now, don't get me wrong, I DO enjoy the effort made in the game, and playing it smart and slow is definitely rewarding when you take out an entire Soviet SAG with your old submarine by pushing their carrier into the torpedo kept below the layer, undetected before it's too late. But some of the fondest memories are also when I run like a madman towards a Victor III, two torpedoes hot on my ass and pull a Red October on it, cheering as the two fishes lock on their own shooter allowing my sub to walk away with a huge explosion at my back.

Crimson Tide is silly, and some of the stuff showed in other movies are silly too, but I doubt I am alone in having this small voice telling me that it could be awesome to recreate some of the scenes.

The other thing I would really love would be some more relief, maybe procedurally-generated, to have the kind of canyons like Red Route 1 for a high-risk high-reward gameplay, though I already imagine that it would be hell to implement, particularly with relation to AI behaviour.

oscar19681

02-23-18, 11:48 AM

what i would like to see..

1) Seal Teams that actually apear in the 3-d world (maybe with a seal delivery vehicle of some sort on the hull or a rubber boat)

2) Hull sound when reaching deeper depth a la Hunt for the red october

3) DSRV missions including visible DRSV in the 3-d world

4) Water transparency (esspecially on possible pacific mission)

5) rudementry 3-d controll room

6) Camera fly-by Option

7) ability to man the sail when leaving/entering port (assuming the 3-d port pics of upcomminh version 1.1 Will offer the option of doing So)

8) More detailed ocean bottom with canyons (featureless bottem of sand gets kinda boring after a while.

shipkiller1

02-23-18, 01:32 PM

1. Allow Active Intercept System to be used for target detection, limited TMA. Regardless of the likely classified capabilities of these systems, I think it is logical to assume that a sub’s active intercept system can be used to initially detect a contact, start a contact track, and possibly to do some rudimentary form of TMA and classification. For TMA, maybe just give it the same capabilities as a regular sonar hearing a faint signal with a small bearing rate change.

This is a good idea but in the time frame of the game, WLR-9 Active Intercept was for display only and the data was not fed into Fire Control. The bearing were plotted on the Geoplot.

2. Quicker TMA solution when holding a contact on both hull and towed sonar. I started a separate thread on this last month but wanted to include it here as well. Taking simultaneous readings from two passive sonars 2,000 feet apart should provide enough basic triangulation to at least eliminate a number of possible target range/course combinations and speed up the TMA process, especially at the short tactical ranges in CW.

Works well in theory but not in actual practice at the time.

3. Start Further Away from Contacts. Especially in 1.09 I seem to always start nearly in active sonar range of the bad guys, which does not seem very realistic. Allow us to start up to 40,000 yards away from contacts, which is probably a more realistic passive direct path range for initial contact of many surface ships, especially tankers, amphibs, etc. Yea, this works. The larger the ship, the higher the generated self noise level (louder). The smaller the ship the quieter it is a slow speeds.

The feature I would most like is the ability to shoot at flank. All US submarines have been able to do this for over 50 years... sometime you just need to put a 21" countermeasure out in the water to disrupt the badguys...

Mspot

02-23-18, 11:02 PM

I like the shoot at flank comment. :haha:

In terms of starting at a greater range (distance), I believe you can in this game; you merely have to click that distance/range button when presented that "intermission" (contact) screen. I believe it is set to select 10k-yards, 15k-yards, 20k-yards, and 25k-yards.

somedude88

03-22-18, 10:54 AM

Ability to fire spreads for the MK16 dumb torpedoes, (instead of firing them off individually) especially for the early campaign. Also the ability to have the MK16 torpedoes run patterns.

3d model of the towed array sonar,

make the sim as realistic as possible.

option to not see airplanes/helicopters/undetected weapons. It feels like cheating. You can still see them in the distance when you're looking at ownship, even though they aren't on the tab map.

Easier way to guide torpedoes by wire? They keep locking onto an unwanted target and then I have to babysit them till they reach the ones I meant for them to take out.

skill and Personnel management? not going to die on this hill but I think it would make it interesting.

Also make the minimap and the Tab map 2 different maps, any changes to the tab map carries over to the minimap and that gets annoying.

More tools for enemy AI, like their version of the MOSS.

Capt. Morgan

04-02-18, 04:45 PM

...
option to not see airplanes/helicopters/undetected weapons. It feels like cheating. You can still see them in the distance when you're looking at ownship, even though they aren't on the tab map.

I second that one especially. I can control myself enough to not hit F4/F3/F2 in tight situations, but not F1 (I still love seeing the wreckage on the bottom). An optional ability (in play, preferably) to shut off 3D rendering of anything you can't see on the tactical map would great.

As far as preventing wire-guided weapons from locking on to unintended targets, I believe that's how they actually worked back then, and sometimes they do lock on to something you didn't know was there:D.

I'd like to see a circle of confusion around target depth like you have with range (at least at realistic and elite levels), so that you can't instantly tell if you've misidentified a surface target as submerged or vice versa.

Being able to access your current orders at the Strategic Map would also be helpful for anyone playing more than one campaign at the same time

Delgard

04-02-18, 09:11 PM

To avoid chasing unwanted targets, can the torpedoes be set for min/max depth?

What is reality?

Capt.Hunt

04-03-18, 01:51 AM

Ability to fire spreads for the MK16 dumb torpedoes, (instead of firing them off individually) especially for the early campaign. Also the ability to have the MK16 torpedoes run patterns.

As I understand it, subs can't really volley fire torpedoes, if that's what you're asking for. Even in spreads you'd have to fire them a few seconds apart, although I'd love to be able to preset the gyros to streamline the firing sequence.

shipkiller1

04-04-18, 08:06 PM

To avoid chasing unwanted targets, can the torpedoes be set for min/max depth?

What is reality?

In reality, yes.

shipkiller1

04-04-18, 08:13 PM

As I understand it, subs can't really volley fire torpedoes, if that's what you're asking for. Even in spreads you'd have to fire them a few seconds apart, although I'd love to be able to preset the gyros to streamline the firing sequence.

It depends on what your definition if a 'volley' is. On US Submarines, you cannot launch two simultaneously, but you would need a gap of around 5 seconds between port and starboard sides. This is just the button pushing to switch between sides and going through the procedures for launch. Besides, you would NEVER volley fire acoustic homing weapons. The game does not model (nor could it) mutual interference on each weapon.

Delgard

04-04-18, 10:12 PM

Hmmm, vareeee ienteressting.

Mitchmaker

04-23-18, 12:57 PM

shipkiller1

04-23-18, 07:34 PM

As i mentioned in another thread.
We need more options for the torpedos.
Swim them out, use them as foward sonar sensors, change their speed while running, designate them to certain target, and deactivate them if needed.

The MK-48 CANNOT be shot in swimout. I cannot go into the why's but it needs to see some acceleration for the motor to start.

Correct. You should be able to change speeds and depth at any point in the torpedo run with the exception of the first 'so many seconds' after launch, providing you have the wire of course.

Yes, you can command shutdown the weapon if the wire is good. As I have said on several occasions, the MK-48 does NOT detonate at end of run. It just shuts down....

Rufus Shinra

04-24-18, 10:25 AM

The MK-48 CANNOT be shot in swimout. I cannot go into the why's but it needs to see some acceleration for the motor to start.
Let me guess, using the good old Clancy method (using unclassified data and making sense of it): the Otto Fuel is kept in a sealed container near an empty combustion chamber and the separation between both of them can be torn down by a simple mechanical process such as, say, a steel ball inside the fuel tank itself. When the torpedo is catapulted hard enough, the ball bearing tears through the separation, allowing the Otto Fuel to get vaporized thanks to the sudden drop in pressure. Of course, an additional safety would require to have the separation being a decent thermal insulator and the combustion chamber to be pre-heated so that the fuel vapour start igniting.

Or it could simply be an ullage issue, and the expulsion of the torpedo plays the same role as an ullage motor.

EDIT: this makes me wonder if a torpedo like the Black Shark, with an Al-AgO battery, could have a swim-out feature with 650 mm tubes. IIRC, it needs seawater to start the engine as a safety measure, so it would be hard to manage it from a 533 mm tube.