Self noise values and thoughts...

[Capt Jack Harkness]

From lowest to highest, the self noise of all playable subs is:

105: Narwhal
115: Lost Angeles
130: Sturgeon (both eras)
136: Permit (both eras)
140: Skipjack (both eras)

The biggest gap is the Sturgeon to the Los Angeles, however it's widely acknowledged that rafting the turbines and other equipment in the engine room of the Permit made a massive difference in quieting compared to the Skipjack... Shouldn't the gap between those two (currently 4) be similar to the Sturgeon/LA gap (currently 15)?

Side note, is it entirely accurate that the noise levels remained the same from '68 to '84 despite retrofits? I mean obviously any improvement would be slight, but still...

[The Bandit]

From lowest to highest, the self noise of all playable subs is:

105: Narwhal
115: Lost Angeles
130: Sturgeon (both eras)
136: Permit (both eras)
140: Skipjack (both eras)

The biggest gap is the Sturgeon to the Los Angeles, however it's widely acknowledged that rafting the turbines and other equipment in the engine room of the Permit made a massive difference in quieting compared to the Skipjack... Shouldn't the gap between those two (currently 4) be similar to the Sturgeon/LA gap (currently 15)?

Side note, is it entirely accurate that the noise levels remained the same from '68 to '84 despite retrofits? I mean obviously any improvement would be slight, but still...

I've said the same thing myself, however I will admit I did underestimate some of the silencing things that were done with the Skipjack, I agree that the gulf between Skipjack to Permit should be bigger than any of the others.

Another point to make, in regards to refits. The 84 Skipjack is 3 knots slower, to reflect the change of going over to a 7 blade "Scimitar" screw from the standard 5 blade (which was notably noisier as it suffered from turbulence / interference issues with the sail and control surfaces) it should also be slightly quieter as well.

As far as other improvements, the later Skipjacks were built with quieter gearing than the first units and I think some similar progression was phased in with the succeeding classes as well.

[Capt Jack Harkness]

The Skipjack propeller swap was discussed on steam with the devs. Both versions are shown with the skew-back propeller because their research showed that most boats had been retrofitted with them by '68, as such the early boats should have their top speed lowered.

As for the rest, I think we may need an informed consensus from those more knowledgeable than me as for where these values should shift to...

[The Bandit]

The Skipjack propeller swap was discussed on steam with the devs. Both versions are shown with the skew-back propeller because their research showed that most boats had been retrofitted with them by '68, as such the early boats should have their top speed lowered.

As for the rest, I think we may need an informed consensus from those more knowledgeable than me as for where these values should shift to...

For sure. My understanding was that the screw issue was much less critical on the Skipjack but that may be because they were already quite loud.

I've done a bit of balancing like that in my mod, including lowering down some of the noise for some soviet boats. Default the Tango is louder than the Foxtrot. I know the Tango had its basis in the Juliet, which was not a quiet diesel boat, but I just can't get my head around the Tango being so loud.

[Capt Jack Harkness]

Well I guess the big question is how do we fit the gap into the current scale? Do we consider the Los Angeles and Skipjack correct and shift the Permit and Sturgeon lower? Make the Skipjack louder?

Currently the November is at 160, a good 20 dB above the Skipjack...

[The Bandit]

Well I guess the big question is how do we fit the gap into the current scale? Do we consider the Los Angeles and Skipjack correct and shift the Permit and Sturgeon lower? Make the Skipjack louder?

Currently the November is at 160, a good 20 dB above the Skipjack...

My answer, right wrong or otherwise, was to make the Permit and Sturgeon both quieter but to also quiet down some of the other Soviet boats as well response.

Permit: from 136 to 128
Sturgeon: from 130 to 124
Skipjack: from 140 to 138 and 136 for the 7 bladed screw.

Los Angeles was kept at 115 as that seems right to me.