FOTRS vs TMO?

[Steiger]

I used to play TMO and loved it - what's the deal with FOTRS and how do they compare?

[Rockin Robbins]

First of all you have to be precise because there are three main versions of FOTRS. 1.2, 1.3 and 2.0.

Then there is our new project, FOTRSU, Fall of the Rising Sun Ultimate, presently at version 0.62. These are all distinct and different mods. FOTRS and all its versions were made solely by the Aces of the Deep modding group in Germany

FOTRS in all its versions was always the most beautiful of the SH4 mods. with expanded navies and great graphics tweaks. FOTRS 2.0, made for SH4 v1.4, was most beautiful of all, with the most ships and a beautiful environment. But most on Subsim couldn't play if because they had SH4 v1.5. Also 2.0 was balanced for multiplayer and very few Subsiim players do that. I styled FOTRS as the GWX of SH4.

The worst was that the AOTD mod crew was inactive. Its uploads were vanishing all over the Internet. I announced the FOTRS Ultimate Project, to bring all available versions of FOTRS home to Subsim for hosting so they would be preserved, and to form a team to get all the great graphics and sound features of FOTRS 2.0 to work in SH4 v1.5.

Our first goal was just to get all Mad_Max's 2.0 stuff working in the most recent version of SH4. Once we did so we found an unplayable game in single player mode, and we found many errors, most stemming from defects in the stock game. We've been working on those aspects for the last eight months to get FOTRSU fun to play in single player. In the meantime we've added lots of features.

But the thing we're proudest of, and which makes SH4 enter a new age is that when you center the rudder the helmsman says "Rudder amidships." That's proof of the abounding excellence of FOTRS and why it's preferrable to TMO. :D:D:D Also, FOTRSU can be uninstalled by JSGME, leaving you with a stock game where programming errors in TMO make permanent changes to the stock game after you uninstall.

[Steiger]

But the thing we're proudest of, and which makes SH4 enter a new age is that when you center the rudder the helmsman says "Rudder amidships." That's proof of the abounding excellence of FOTRS and why it's preferrable to TMO. :D:D:D

LMFAO Robbins. Thanks for the answers - from a gameplay perspective, how does FOTRSU differ from TMO?

[torpedobait]

But the thing we're proudest of, and which makes SH4 enter a new age is that when you center the rudder the helmsman says "Rudder amidships." That's proof of the abounding excellence of FOTRS and why it's preferrable to TMO. :D:D:D

I agree - that was a great one - now, any chance anyone could add "Lookouts Below - Clear the bridge" to the dive sequence voices? Just one more bit of realism...at least according to the movies I've seen. :D

[Rockin Robbins]

LMFAO Robbins. Thanks for the answers - from a gameplay perspective, how does FOTRSU differ from TMO?
First of all, FOTRSU is very, very bloodthirsty. TMO is easy compared to FOTRSU so far and you will run into escorts that will just kill you. If they have your number, you're dead. We have Japanese escorts with side throwers.....

Also we have Japanese submarines in the game for the first time. Still working on details, but as they are now, they run around surfaced and open up with their deck gun if you get close. You can sink them with torpedoes or deck gun.

We have doubled the number of different ships on the ocean compared to TMO. We have optically perfect periscopes, TDC and binoculars. Their field of vision is correct. You can use the periscope reticle to read off measurements that are accurate. The deck in the control room cants down when you dive, up when you ascend.

You can turn BOTH radars on and off. The keyboard layout is improved over TMO. The sounds are entirely reworked, with primary and secondary batteries of capital ships having separate sounds. The graphics have been majorly improved: compare smoke in TMO with FOTRSU smoke. It's amazing.

There's a lot more but my brain is on strike. Team members, help out here!

[propbeanie]

Those forthcoming subs btw, will start shooting at you at about 8700 yards on a clear, calm day. Maybe sooner... :salute:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLzLu618Kzc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6Krof6BYIY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32hbhMutxWw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQAUs0FZAlw

Mind you, watch your speakers... You have been warned... :har:


turn 'em down, in other words, until the vids really get going... :yeah:

RR's night time action one does glitch, but some of that can be interpreted as shock waves... recording a video does eat up cpu cycles, so it is to be expected, same thing in my Sole Survivor clips. Even a quad core can't keep up sometimes when recording vids. But watch the big gun smoke... listen to the shells whistle by. cool beans man...

[cdrsubron7]

Nice screenies, PB. Can't see a thing.:doh: :har:

[propbeanie]

I'll bet you're using Internet Explorer, and your Windows is fully patched to full-lock-down mode... Read what Dowly did to fix his IE:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2486324#post2486324

Can you "see" them if you click on them cdrsubron7?...

[Bubblehead1980]

I used to play TMO and loved it - what's the deal with FOTRS and how do they compare?

TMO is a mod that is basically complete and has been for sometime. so feel its not fair to compare FOTRS is still being developed. However, FOTRS is on track to become THE mod for SH 4. The team is working hard and am seeing a lot of progress.

[Rockin Robbins]

However, FOTRS is on track to become THE mod for SH 4. The team is working hard and am seeing a lot of progress.
And that is our mission statement. We want to be the default mod for SH4. Before we can say that we have to get to v1.0 and then produce plugin mods so the player is in charge of their own game.

Especially important will be AI modes that allow beginners to play FOTRSU and progress the enemy AI as they gain skill. As great a mod as TMO is, a beginner just gets chewed up and spat out. Then they come back and wonder why we all think TMO is so great. That's a tragedy the FOTRSU team seeks to avoid.

Pssst! Don't tell Bubblehead, but we're going to lean on him for plugins later.

[RampantParanoia]

... We want to be the default mod for SH4...

Especially important will be AI modes that allow beginners to play FOTRSU and progress the enemy AI as they gain skill...

I’ve got to say, as a long time lurker I’ve followed FOTRSU with great interest. It’s really good to see how much work you guys are putting into not only the mod but fixing age old (and newly discovered!) bugs in the base game as well. I also love your approach of the base mod and compatible plugins, an absolute stroke of genius!

FOTRSU looks to be a beautiful mod, but I’m really glad to see that you’re planning on including less hard AI. I’m a bit of a wimp when it comes to that, but I don’t want to miss out on all the great content your team are creating just because I can’t handle the escorts :P

[Rockin Robbins]

I’ve got to say, as a long time lurker I’ve followed FOTRSU with great interest. It’s really good to see how much work you guys are putting into not only the mod but fixing age old (and newly discovered!) bugs in the base game as well. I also love your approach of the base mod and compatible plugins, an absolute stroke of genius!

FOTRSU looks to be a beautiful mod, but I’m really glad to see that you’re planning on including less hard AI. I’m a bit of a wimp when it comes to that, but I don’t want to miss out on all the great content your team are creating just because I can’t handle the escorts :P
If you're not enjoying the game then it's the modders' fault! We're going to do some things in FOTRSU that all of us will both love and hate.

We'll have an OTC (probably under a different name) mod where you have a perfect recognition manual with all correct measurements in it and every ship on the ocean represented. If you miss, it will be your fault unless you get a faulty torpedo. I hate this one. Many wouldn't play SH4 without it. We'll have it. I don't have the right to tell you how to play your game.

We'll have probably four different levels of enemy AI, from easy to deadlier than we have now. New players deserve to be able to see all the visual and sound improvements in FOTRSU but right now they can't survive. That's not right and we'll fix it.

Different keyboard layouts, boat skins, plotting grids, even some crazy unrealistic stuff I'm known for, all will be available as Certified FOTRSU Plugin Mods. Roll your own supermod. Coming soon to a computer near you!

[Bubblehead1980]

If you're not enjoying the game then it's the modders' fault! We're going to do some things in FOTRSU that all of us will both love and hate.

We'll have an OTC (probably under a different name) mod where you have a perfect recognition manual with all correct measurements in it and every ship on the ocean represented. If you miss, it will be your fault unless you get a faulty torpedo. I hate this one. Many wouldn't play SH4 without it. We'll have it. I don't have the right to tell you how to play your game.

We'll have probably four different levels of enemy AI, from easy to deadlier than we have now. New players deserve to be able to see all the visual and sound improvements in FOTRSU but right now they can't survive. That's not right and we'll fix it.

Different keyboard layouts, boat skins, plotting grids, even some crazy unrealistic stuff I'm known for, all will be available as Certified FOTRSU Plugin Mods. Roll your own supermod. Coming soon to a computer near you!


Curious. What are you guys doing about depth charges? Changing the damage system? For me, the problem was not so much the AI being set too high in TMO. Ducimus once put it well, attacking escorted ships without getting depth charged is anticlimatic and boring.

The problem as I see it is how the damage model worked with the depth charges.Stock charges were way too powerful (TMO as well) and the damage model with only max hit points for TMO had the hull collapsing rather easily when these subs hulls were tough and could take a real beating even when much of equipment was in shambles. Billfish, Seahorse, Salmon, Halibut, are among boats that come to mind.

I tried to remedy it with my depth charge mod and it helped a lot. Now I've adjusted the sub damage model. Based on travellers model but not tank like. Hull is stronger. Combined with my depth charge mod, sub takes beating, equipment takes damage. When lost its because you took enough damage to key systems you are overhwhelmed and sink below crush depth. Sub will sink from surface if flooding. Since we have no abandon ship option and I hate the gamey special abilities "mr fix it" who repair any damaged item. I made it where things leave player stranded such as rudder as not vulnerable.

During recent testing I let a Type C CD vessel set to Veteran skill depth charge me at 350 feet. I was not evading it was a test. My boat was in shambles. Scopes smashed, radar smashed, all but 2 torpedo tubes smashed, pumps damaged, compressor damaged, aft batteries damaged soem flooding but not instant massive flooding. Dec guns and TBT smashed.I did take Balao class boat was in to 600 feet and slipped away, made it back to port. Now obviously in a non test career wont just sit there and let them get a fix , but it was a nice test.

I'll release my mod for this soon, just making some key adjustments.


I believe tough AI, with proper depth charge settings, and damage model can solve issues. I'm working on it for early war TMO RSRD now. I mean I find early war just boring in the sim since its sinking a lot of singles or when do find convoys and task forces their escorts dont have a clue lol. Perfect example was even in oct 43 in calm seas, i sunk two tankers. The aux sub chaser and momi patrol boat dropped a few charges but never came close. I had a Balao and went to 400 feet, got away with ease. Japanese were not great at ASW early on but they were not that bad lol.

Some reason the aux subchaser did not have active sonar, so I added it. Momi PB had it but it was lackluster. Likely were set to "competent" instead of veteran as many escorts in RSRD are during this time frame.

Once thing I've had to go back and change is the fleet destroyers. Many of them were neutered in RSRD. They didnt have the sensors for ASW even later. Some like Asashio had one DC rack, one empty. prevented from laying down nice patterns.

Part of my upgrade is upping escorts to veteran in 43-45 and a few to elite, making sure their sensor packages are correct for time period and have depth charges when and where they should. 31 and 42 some at left at competent some at vet. With my sim.cfg set for early war, it improves their performance but keeps its accurate for early war. So far I have all the DD's complete and they are once again, an actual threat.

I like your team's approach though Trying to make it to suit a wide audience. Not tell anyone how to play their sim.

[CapnScurvy]

We'll have an OTC (probably under a different name) mod where you have a perfect recognition manual with all correct measurements in it and every ship on the ocean represented. If you miss, it will be your fault unless you get a faulty torpedo. I hate this one. Many wouldn't play SH4 without it. We'll have it. I don't have the right to tell you how to play your game.

My friend RR doesn't understand the issue of having proper working equipment compared to his "fog of war" perspective that all play should be guesswork.

If we left it up to him, his idea of realistic game play would be for us all to follow the "O'Kane" system of firing, where you get as close as you can to a target, fire at a 90 degree AoB, and expect to get hits. Lee Harvey Oswald was killed with a gut shot to the ribs on TV.....anyone can do that!

I have no tolerance for those that persist in believing a Stadimeter found range should be missing accurate range by 50%....half of what it should be. It's as if you're telling us the U.S. Military sent out rifles that fired 2 feet to the right.......just go ahead and use them........its realistic behavior! Even the first grunt firing the weapon would have figured out what to do with his inaccurate weapon, besides turning it onto the dope that handed it to him!

Double R is going to say that having a realistic measurement in the Recognition Manual is hogwash.....should never be there. The "fog of war" should prevail as the way to get a firing solution. Just guess at it, knowing the figures are wrong, and be happy with the outcome.

I can't disagree more! No Captain would have relied on knowing his figures are inaccurate and accepted the inaccurate results. He would have done something about it on his first patrol, due to nothing more than realizing his error in inaccurate measurement was just as bad as a Compass reading South when it should read East.

That's been my stand for years with this game......funny, no one complained about the nuts on, to the exact yard, figures you get when using the Sonar to give found range. But, it's breaking some "ethical rule" when a Stadimeter reading might produce a close estimate range figure?

[RampantParanoia]

But that's why the idea of making a base mod with compatible plugins is so great! You can choose to have it your way rather than how RR prefers it. Instead of it being an argument of which is best, that the mod author wins by default, it's a choice where nobody loses (provided there's a plugin mod to cover it of course lol).

I absolutely can't stand artificially hard AI. Being seen on a moonless night at 8000 yards or other impossible feats totally destroy the immersion for me, but some people like the challenge that presents and that's fine. But there will be different levels of AI so I can enjoy what suits me while others can square off with floating gods at their leisure [emoji14] That said, my personal preference would be realism over artifically easy too, but I'll take stay I can get.

[kcoun]

Allowing people to play the game in a way that is most enjoyable for them should be the point of all, so yes to optional mods. That's what's great about TMO, all the compatible mods I can choose from. As to the beautiful graphics of FOTRS, I wouldnt't know .. the AI keeps putting me on the ocean floor. I do look forward to an AI package that let's me see what you've created ...

[Mav87th]

As an owner of both the original paper "Die Handels Flotten der Welt 1942" and "Suchliste für Schiffsnamen" (an adendum for the first) and the US counterpart ONI-208J they sure as hell had info on a lot of ships in the world. Remember most of the ships were build way before the war, and most were known models that any liner company could order from shipbuilders. All that info went into these "manuals" - correct masts could be extended or chopped, but the length were hard to remanufator.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1dytqlrd6p4rfv5/IMG_20170910_095144.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m7scn3gs5wr042z/IMG_20170910_093520.jpg?dl=0

In my german ship book the updates were glued in by the original owner.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b0w5etbomu2ms7u/IMG_20170910_093555.jpg?dl=0

Example - our Hog Islander tanker below
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kmbdfktxmcmbbd4/IMG_20170910_093916.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t2ovll8f2dw1t3r/IMG_20170910_094038.jpg?dl=0

119 meters long and 16,5 meters in mast height.

Most interesting for CapnScurvy might be page 23 of ONI-208J in the revised version. And notice how all measurements are taken from deck and not waterline, as the waterline are suspect to change from how much the ship was laden.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i4ha4zavzpoymsc/p23.png?dl=0


Best regards
Mav87th

[Rockin Robbins]

Allowing people to play the game in a way that is most enjoyable for them should be the point of all, so yes to optional mods. That's what's great about TMO, all the compatible mods I can choose from. As to the beautiful graphics of FOTRS, I wouldnt't know .. the AI keeps putting me on the ocean floor. I do look forward to an AI package that let's me see what you've created ...
There really are no compatible mods with TMO. Read the readme that nobody reads by Ducimus. All we have are claims from modders that modified TMO that their stuff is compatible. That isn't good enough. But it's the best we can get with an inactive TMO modder.

Ducimus, if he were here, would be the first to say that no mods are compatible with TMO. He would be very nearly right.:D

[Rockin Robbins]

But that's why the idea of making a base mod with compatible plugins is so great! You can choose to have it your way rather than how RR prefers it. Instead of it being an argument of which is best, that the mod author wins by default, it's a choice where nobody loses (provided there's a plugin mod to cover it of course lol).
It'll be even better than that. You'll be able to change it at will! Can't make a choice? Switch back and forth. You'll have to do that in port.

But you can see that there's no compromise possible between CapnScurvy's "if you do everything right you should get a hit." and "if you do everything right you'll probably miss for reasons you can never find out." But you can switch 'em out at will and play the game the way YOU CHOOSE and change your mind whenever you want.

That was really my primary idea before I ever got involved in FOTRSU: a roll your own supermod!

[Rockin Robbins]

As an owner of both the original paper "Die Handels Flotten der Welt 1942" and "Suchliste für Schiffsnamen" (an adendum for the first) and the US counterpart ONI-208J they sure as hell had info on a lot of ships in the world. Remember most of the ships were build way before the war, and most were known models that any liner company could order from shipbuilders. All that info went into these "manuals" - correct masts could be extended or chopped, but the length were hard to remanufator.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1dytqlrd6p4rfv5/IMG_20170910_095144.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m7scn3gs5wr042z/IMG_20170910_093520.jpg?dl=0

In my german ship book the updates were glued in by the original owner.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b0w5etbomu2ms7u/IMG_20170910_093555.jpg?dl=0

Example - our Hog Islander tanker below
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kmbdfktxmcmbbd4/IMG_20170910_093916.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t2ovll8f2dw1t3r/IMG_20170910_094038.jpg?dl=0

119 meters long and 16,5 meters in mast height.

Most interesting for CapnScurvy might be page 23 of ONI-208J in the revised version. And notice how all measurements are taken from deck and not waterline, as the waterline are suspect to change from how much the ship was laden.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i4ha4zavzpoymsc/p23.png?dl=0


Best regards
Mav87th
According to studies after the war using Japanese records, less than half the ships sunk by American submarines during the war were properly identified, as was necessary in a stadimeter based attack. Many Japanese ships were disguised so that their masthead and cabin heights were altered from their official numbers. Many of the ships shot at by American torpedoes did not even appear in the recognition manuals at all! "I don't see it in the recognition manual so I can't shoot it" was not acceptable to skippers or the brass. So they shot without the information they needed, sometimes hitting the targets.

Skippers requested the OTC mod but were refused because CapnScurvy wasn't born yet!

The Japanese went so far as to manufacture one line of ships that were half scale models of a ship they knew was in the US recognition manual. They were very crafty, considering their poor ability to produce new ships.

The Germans had it much better in the Atlantic, with Liberty ships being cookie cutter fairly identical ships that accumulated experience could nail down. But U-Boats didn't generally depend on target identification to shoot torpedoes, usually using constant bearing techniques that didn't give a horse's patootie what they were shooting at.

And the Germans pressed in for that short shot that the Capn hates so much. In combat errors happen and the best strategy is one that can toss all those errors in the trash. Get 500 yards/meters away and shoot a spread. Turn out the lights, the party's over.

As for "anybody can hit from there," once they get there, yes. But how many have the cajones to get that close. Americans were famous for taking 3000 yard shots that had a very low probability of success. That's why the U-Boats made better submarines look bad in the accuracy department.

But when the smoke cleared, American boats were head and shoulders above the world (http://www.ahoy.tk-jk.net/macslog/TheRoleoftheSubmarineinWo.html), sinking 23 ships and 101,923 tons per sub lost, with the Germans left in the dust at only 3.6 ships and 18,565 tons per lost sub. outdated German sub quality, operational errors and just bad strategy, along with superior Allied ASW just produced an environment where the German subs had no chance, in spite of the fact that their recognition manuals were better.

Finally, simulations can't answer the question of what was. But they are great an answering the question "what if?" And "what if the recognition manual contained accurate information on every single ship on the ocean" is one of those legitimate questions. As is "if I had perfect information and reliable equipment, could I hit what I shot at?" OTC will be an available plugin for FOTRSU. I'd consider the mod very incomplete if OTC weren't available. Players deserve to be able to answer those questions.

Many, many skippers during the real war would have given anything to know those answers too. I believe that there were just enough unknown variables that many good skippers lost their commands because of wrong decisions of the Pearl and Australian brass. Some skippers, such as Joe Enright, even derated themselves for reason not their fault. Most of the time, factors beyond their control caused them to be successful or unsuccessful. I'm reading a book right now, "Tyger," about just that during ship to ship battles of the Napoleonic wars. In war, it is very likely you can do everything right and die.

[Rockin Robbins]

Also, from Admiral Lockwood's Current Doctrine Submarines (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=5294)/USF 25(A), Prepared By COMMANDER SUBMARINE FORCE, PACIFIC FLEET
FEBRUARY, 1944, chapter 1 page 1:
1102.The submarine is a weapon available to the naval command in the conduct of a campaign, designed and operated to attack or observe enemy surface or sub-surface craft without prior detection and without requiring support from other types. The essence of successful submarine attack lies in its unseen and unheard execution, resulting in surprise. The primary assets of the submarine are its ability to carry torpedo attacks to close range, objectively to point where enemy target can not successfully maneuver to avoid; to lay mines in waters controlled or under observation by the enemy where surface mine layers can not operate without hazard or detection; and to obtain positive or negative information regarding enemy locations or movements under conditions which take advantage of their inherent qualities. Any use of the weapon which does not take full advantage of these qualities when such are needed in the theatre of operations, is a sacrifice of available potentialities.

Bolded type is mine but Admiral Lockwood's words. In other words, for Lockwood not to stand you in a corner with a dunce cap on, he's going to grill you about the excessive range from which you took the shots and the burden of proof is squarely on your shoulders to demonstrate that you took your shots from such a short range that the target could not "successfully maneuver to avoid" your attack.

Far from being the attack for stupid people because they could not miss, this close range attack is demanded of every single torpedo firing and you better be ready to defend any shots to the contrary. It will not be fun to do so.:D:D

Lockwood did not suffer fools lightly.

[Arsenius]

Can i use autotargeting in FOTRS?

It's not marked on options, but i still minssing torpedoes from targets:hmmm:

[propbeanie]

It is marked in the Options, but it is named the opposite, as "Manual-Targeting" yes / no. Click that box, and you'll have manual-targeting. Empty it, and you are on auto-targeting. That's Stock, FOTRS, TMO, FotRSU, or just about any mod. Do be aware that FOTRS is the original AOTD_MadMax mod, while FotRSU is the updated version, based upon MadMax's FOTRS. In any case, with most of the mods, be certain you open your torpedo doors prior to attempting to shoot at a target. Some of the mods will "automatically" open them for you, but the shot is then roughly 2 seconds off, which will have you missing behind most of the time. Some of the mods do require you to use a kay combo, such as <Ctrl><Enter> to shoot, or pressing the fire button with the mouse. :salute:

[Mad Mardigan]

Sitting here thinking on this...

Yes, skippers in the sub fleet, regardless of which side they were on, had recog manuals.

Which they could draw on for a pretty good read on what ship they were seeing.. that much, is agreed on.

How hard would it be to include ships, that can be ID'ed as what ship they are, within reason... but.. have varying in nature as to what their draft is, compared to what the gross unloaded tonnage would be.. simulating the different factors, such as fuel status, cargo they have on board, at any given time frame.. how many hot bodies they had on board at the time... things of that nature...
Would think if that can be done, it would increase the difficulty factor of knowing just what depth to put a torp for an under the keel mag det shot...

To simulate that unknown factor... just a thought. If it can be done, that is... :hmmm:

M. M.

:Kaleun_Salute:

[3catcircus]

Sitting here thinking on this...

Yes, skippers in the sub fleet, regardless of which side they were on, had recog manuals.

Which they could draw on for a pretty good read on what ship they were seeing.. that much, is agreed on.

How hard would it be to include ships, that can be ID'ed as what ship they are, within reason... but.. have varying in nature as to what their draft is, compared to what the gross unloaded tonnage would be.. simulating the different factors, such as fuel status, cargo they have on board, at any given time frame.. how many hot bodies they had on board at the time... things of that nature...
Would think if that can be done, it would increase the difficulty factor of knowing just what depth to put a torp for an under the keel mag det shot...

To simulate that unknown factor... just a thought. If it can be done, that is... :hmmm:

M. M.

:Kaleun_Salute:

I like that idea a lot, but the biggest single annoyance for me is the difficulty in shuffling through all of the silhouettes until I get to the right one. It can literally take 30 seconds or more, with the scope exposed, trying to match ship to rec manual pictures.

Id like to see a rec manual that has tabs to quickly get to tankers, freighters, pax ships, etc. and then having the ability to pick from the applicable groupings of ship types more quickly. Additionally, I generally have to cheat by doing an external view because the flags are *so* small as to be nearly illegible until they are close enough to identify - at which point you're too close to be able to change the ship type from the correct nation's section of the rec manual, redo your calculations, and have a decent solution.

[propbeanie]

Do you mean something like was in the Aeon/SSI Silent Hunter (the original)??? From 1996??? :roll:

[Mad Mardigan]

I like that idea a lot, but the biggest single annoyance for me is the difficulty in shuffling through all of the silhouettes until I get to the right one. It can literally take 30 seconds or more, with the scope exposed, trying to match ship to rec manual pictures.

Id like to see a rec manual that has tabs to quickly get to tankers, freighters, pax ships, etc. and then having the ability to pick from the applicable groupings of ship types more quickly. Additionally, I generally have to cheat by doing an external view because the flags are *so* small as to be nearly illegible until they are close enough to identify - at which point you're too close to be able to change the ship type from the correct nation's section of the rec manual, redo your calculations, and have a decent solution.

I too, seem to recall a ship recog manual with just that set up.. tabs you could click on, go to a preset group (like say BB's...) & could then fairly quickly locate the 1 it appeared to be or was... & could then use that basic info to set up the fish. Would be nice to have that back. :yep:

The basis for My idea of differing drafts comes from, knowing that ships can be done up with differing names, is from s7rikeback's Nippon Maru mod.

In that is several ships cloned to have them renamed to Maru's...

On that basis.. it would stand to reason, that another set of ships could be done that vary on draft depths to simulate & account for varying factors, as I outlined.

Should be doable.. I would figure... :hmmm:

M. M.

:Kaleun_Salute:

[Mad Mardigan]

Do you mean something like was in the Aeon/SSI Silent Hunter (the original)??? From 1996??? :roll:

Not 100% sure.. know that I did have that able to be played in a DosBox.. but.. haven't messed with it for some time now..

I believe it was also available as well, in Silent Hunter: Commander's Edition, too.

A tabbed recog manual.. iirc :yep: :hmmm:

M. M.

:Kaleun_Salute:

[Berserker]

TMO is a mod that is basically complete and has been for sometime. so feel its not fair to compare FOTRS is still being developed. However, FOTRS is on track to become THE mod for SH 4. The team is working hard and am seeing a lot of progress.
I have tried forts 1.46 until i can feel safe diving below 250 ft and a warning line is placed on the depth gauge, showing that going below that line will cause hull damage, it's not for me...Another thing to figure out is where did my time compression go?? It now tops out at 4096 when it used to go well above that and thats after i removed the mod...:hmmm:

[KaleunMarco]

I have tried forts 1.46 until i can feel safe diving below 250 ft and a warning line is placed on the depth gauge, showing that going below that line will cause hull damage, it's not for me...Another thing to figure out is where did my time compression go?? It now tops out at 4096 when it used to go well above that and thats after i removed the mod...:hmmm:

you do not want to set TC higher than 4096.
i have my max set to 1024.
too many issues when TC > 1024.
but, hey, it's free country. do what you want.:Kaleun_Cheers:
:Kaleun_Salute:

[Mad Mardigan]

you do not want to set TC higher than 4096.
i have my max set to 1024.
too many issues when TC > 1024.
but, hey, it's free country. do what you want.:Kaleun_Cheers:
:Kaleun_Salute:

Even I went into the main.cfg & docked the max TC, down to 512... but, that's just My own personal preference... :yep: :shucks:

M. M.

:Kaleun_Salute:

[Berserker]

How do i set it back to normal??:hmmm:

[Mad Mardigan]

How do i set it back to normal??:hmmm:

Best to dink about with the file in question, either before starting a career or, when you are in post & have NOT gone out on patrol, YET.

Can be found here:

SH4/FotRS/data/cfg

file you want to adjust with regards to time compression would be main.cfg

Adjust accordingly.

My settings:

[TIME COMPRESSION]
TimeStop=0
RealTime=1
LandProximity=128
CriticalDamage=1
CrewEfficiency=128;1
AirEnemyDetected=1
SoundEffects=128
CharacterAnim=64
EnemyDetected=1
RadioReport=1
Particles=64
PrayState=256
HunterState=256
3DRender=1024
Maximum=1024

M. M.

:Kaleun_Salute: