Released! The first review please!?

[YoYo]

Buy or not to buy?
Any opinions? The first reviews?

:Kaleun_Salute:

[Cmdr Von Wulfen]

Buy or not to buy?
Any opinions? The first reviews?

:Kaleun_Salute:
I'm with you, waiting on a review or Two before I dive in.
I'm itching to press the Buy button though, not sure I can hold off much longer lol

[daft]

I've only been through the training missions covering the torps, missiles and navigation, but I'm really enjoying it! Quite fun driving the boat around even though I wish there was an option to just order depth, course etc. Maybe with a few simple evasive manoeuvres built in. Looks really good with meaty explosions. No crew voices though, but I'm really looking forward to jumping into the campaign.

[Stardog765]

I too am waiting for some more details, especially concerning control of the sub.
Are you saying that you actually have to drive the boat like with WASD and you cannot give a heading and depth setting like in Dangerous Waters?

I am getting conflicting reports on that on the Steam forums, no surprise there of course but if you could clarify that, that would be very helpful.

Thank you sir!

[Lanzfeld]

Waiting as well.

Mixed reviews on steam.
I'm worried about the longevity.
Will it get boring quickly?

Or is there enough in there?

[lesrae]

You change the angle of the planes and the rudder up and down in steps of 5º using WASD, X will centre everything.

E & C add/remove bouyancy (flood/blow)

Q & Z step up and down the levels of engine power (stop, 1/3, standard, full and flank as I recall)

To me this makes it more fun than just ordering a depth , course or speed as the skipper would do IRL. It gives you more to do and keeps you busy (it's very easy to broach if you don't concentrate as you come shallow, as you may have seen Neal do in his video)

[Stardog765]

Ahhh ok. Thank you sir that is helpful.

The other thing I had read is its got built time compression that cant be set to 1:1? Is that correct or has that been changed?

Thank you very much for your information. Very helpful before making up my mind on this.

[LubeckTech]

I am waiting on a review and hoping to see discount keys available thru the usual places like G2A or the other vendors. Probably won't be able to hold out until later tonight and will take the plunge so to speak. Somewhere I read the developers said they would add the ability to issue course/depth orders if there were enough requests for it. So if it is not already there I think it will eventually appear in a patch.

[lesrae]

Ahhh ok. Thank you sir that is helpful.

The other thing I had read is its got built time compression that cant be set to 1:1? Is that correct or has that been changed?

Thank you very much for your information. Very helpful before making up my mind on this.

The speed multiplier is at the bottom of this options screen, as you can see it starts at 1.0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nxtgef9s4yz5pvj/2017-06-05%20%2810%29.png?dl=0


https://www.dropbox.com/s/sqo7f2zn8wdy79g/2017-06-05%20%289%29.png?dl=0

[Stardog765]

Great thank you!

As for the option to be able to just give orders. I hope they do add that or the modding community does. I will keep an eye on this.

I really want to support these guys but I am really not looking for a game where I have to "drive" the sub. I know that might seem like a small thing but for me its a thing. We will see though.

Thank you all and I will keep an eye here for more info before deciding.

[Ramius]

I've found the easiest way not to broach is to use the ballast options (E and C).
1 think I don't like though is that PD seems to be 50ft for all playables ?

[Lanzfeld]

More reviews...please?
50 foot P.D. Across the board? Not a deal breaker but not a good sign either.

[Slick]

Waiting as well.

Mixed reviews on steam.
I'm worried about the longevity.
Will it get boring quickly?

Or is there enough in there?


Disclaimer: I did buy it, but I have yet to play it.

Reading some of the negative reviews, it seems some of those complaints are comparing it to other games/sims like Dangerous Waters or Fleet Command. I think they're missing the point that its intent is the "successor" of Red Storm Rising and (in my opinion) should only be compared in kind to that game and not others. Just my two cents...

[Lanzfeld]

Get in there Slick and give us a few paragraphs!
:k_confused:

[Ramius]

More reviews...please?
50 foot P.D. Across the board? Not a deal breaker but not a good sign either.

Nope its not, but hopefully something that can be changed with time.

[ikalugin]

Just tried it, looks like a solid subsim but I need to learn the ropes.

Soviet single missions would be nice (in vanila or as a mod).

[Raskil]

Well after playing a couple of hours, I'll give it a try:

I would say Cold Waters plays like a mix of Janes Fleet Command and Sonarlysts Subsim Games.

You are tasked with commanding a NATO Submarine. But unlike the Sonarlysts games, this is not a "System Simulator", meaning that you can't use most systems directly. They are manned by your crew. You do most of the stuff from a map view like in Fleet Command.

So here is what you can do:
1. Navigate
You can set the speed of your Sub, The Balast Tanks and the Rudder. Speed is not controlable per Knot but in the usual telegraph steps (1/3, 2/3, standard, flank). Rudder is controlable in 5 Degree increments.
Other than that, you can do an emergency blow, silent running and thats about it. Given the fact that the game abstracts most stations, it feels arkward to control the ships movement in such Detail.

2. Sensors
You have the usual Sensor of a 688l available like towed array, hull sonar, active sonar, active intercept, Radar, ESM and Periscope. But beside the Periscope you can't control them directly, your crew does that for you. You can descide to use active sensor (like ping or radar), but just telling your crew to do so. Radar for example is activated when you raise the radar mast.
You can control the persicope yourself. There you can mark targets via a laser designator. So no stradimeter or advanced topics here.

3. TMA
TMA is done autoatically by your crew. For each contact a quality of the solution is shown as percentage. You can improve your crews TMA solution by offering them various things: Better contact quality (Sound layer, reduce distance, etc.), by maneuvering more, by using active sensors, or by identifying the contact type via an simplified narrowband display.
The contacts you crew tracks are shown on the map. Display on the map is only as good as the solution your crew has calculated.

4. Identiying Contacts
As written above, you can try to identify a contact via a very simplified narrowband display. Depending on Sound quality, freqzency lines are shown and you can match them with a reference to get the contact type. No Deamon or other systems involved.

5. Weapon Control
You fire weapons by selecting them in you Torpedo Tube or VLS display. Then you set a waypoint on the map to fire them. You can set stuff like search pattern, FOV and Depth, but it's not very detailed. Wire Guided Torpedos can by steered throuh an simplified interface or via dragging your weapon waypoint on the map. The wire can get cut-off.
Weapons that you can use: MK48, Harpoons und Tomahawks (And a non-guided torpedo, I forgot the type). And you have Noisemaker countermeasures as well.

6. Damage control
If you get hit, you need to tell your repair crew which compartment to focus on. You need to fight flooding or failing subsystems.


The game comes with a tutorial which explains the basics. Then there a single missions and a campaign mode. In Capaign Mode there is a simulated conflict between NATO and Soviet forces. You get Missions from high command, but you are free to act to your liking (But command appriciates if you do theire missions). You drive your sub from a world map till enemy contacts are discovered in your vincinity. Then the game drops into the normal single mission gameplay.

To sum it up:

Cold Waters has it moments. You can fokus on tactical decisions, because you don't need to operate all of the sensors yourself. The level of detail on the simulation varies greatly: From my point of view, the sound propagation model for example is modeled really well (with thermo layers, surface duct, convergenze zone and stuff). Other parts are modeled badly: I can launch a Tomahawk from 400 ft down, my towed array never cuts, even if I do the wildest maneauvers.
To rephrase my Fleet Command and Sonarlyst intro: You can only command one sub, as in the Sonarlyst games, but most of the systems are abstracted/simulated as they are in fleet command, meaning that you can use them directly, but rather from a map view.

Hope that helps.

Regards

Raskil

[Lanzfeld]

Many thanks Raskil! :Kaleun_Salute:

Bottom line....worth $40 or wait?

[Hans Schultz]

Many thanks Raskil! :Kaleun_Salute:

Bottom line....worth $40 or wait?

Bottom line. I think I will be worth $40 in the future, after it's had some polish and feed back. I've only got a few hours in but I like it. It's solid.

[Raskil]

Bottom line....worth $40 or wait?

Woah, thats a tough one. It depends on what you want from it. If you are looking for a Dangerous Waters or Subcommand type of game, with all it's modeled systems I would say don't go for Cold Waters.

I had fun in Cold Waters so far, because I like the tactical aspect of it: You are mostly on your own im Campaign mode. which means you have to be really thoughtful with how you attack, how you want to escape and stuff like that. I've been ripped to shreds a couple of times now by a Tu-142 dropping sonar buoys all over me as soon as I fired my first torpedo. From my point of view, that aspect makes up for the sometimes flawed simulation.
If hat sounds like fun to you, then I would say "Go for it" :)

[Onkel Neal]

FPSchazly is streaming Cold Waters. (https://www.twitch.tv/fpschazly)

[zachanscom]

first quality sub sim in close to a decade? it's a no brainer. call of duty and its ilk retails at 60 dollars on pc. just some perspective.

[PL_Harpoon]

Hi all. Here's my 2 cents.
Just spent about 3 hrs in the game. Did all tutorial missions and a couple of single ones.

First big problem ATM is that you can't order course/depth. There's only manual control which is great for dodging torpedoes but not so good for anything else. At least I didn't had any problems with surfacing the ship by accident (you can use ballast that's slower but much more precise). Still it is annoying and hopefully the devs will add direct orders in the future.

Second thing might not even be an issue with game, but I found that enemy torpedoes behave strangely. Let me explain. I was in a scenario against one Oscar and one Victor subs. We exchanged torpedoes and mine got them both first. At the end I was left with one fish after me. It was coming at me from the west, so I fired a decoy to the north and went south. The torpedo first went after me, but I fooled it with a noisemaker, which made it go in a circle and eventually lock on my decoy. But then when it reached the decoy it immediately turned around and started moving towards me (south) in a snake pattern. It all looked like it either remembered my last position (were torpedoes even programmed to do that?) or it looked like it was wire-guided (but all enemy subs were sunk ATM). Just felt strange.

Another thing I noticed regarding torpedoes is that the wire cuts off really easily. I don't mind when it sometimes happens at launch or after some hard manoeuvring but it happens even when I was at 10 knots, firing them straight ahead without any manoeuvrers. One time I fired 3 torpedoes like that (even went up to 150ft to see if that would help) and all of them were cut off at about 3000 yards.

But that sums up my problems with the game so far. And to be honest all of those things can either be fixed or even get used to if there's no other choice. And so far I think it's worth it. The game has a very strong RSR vibe with improvements in many areas. The combat is challenging even on normal difficulty. So far I've only been playing against enemy subs and on "normal" their tactics usually involves first spamming you with pings and then spamming you with torpedoes and running away at full speed (which actually is sometimes effective) since it takes a lot of time to loose torpedo for good (basically the only way to do that is to dodge it until it looses all fuel).
Also the presentation is very good. Graphics and especially explosions look really good and the models themselves are also great. The only thing they lack IMHO are little details like there's no model for towed sonar or torpedo wire. What also surprised me is the music which is quite good.

When it comes to realism, first let's get things straight - this is not a full on simulator but to be honest it doesn't pretend to be one. Just like the original RSR it's a war game with some simulation aspects. And honestly I'm satisfied with the thing they did. As everyone else is saying, the whole sound detection system is well simulated. Obviously we can't be certain what's simulated and what's RNG but I found that it feels like those TMS solutions really come from a lot of factors. Also there are lot of things that could be easily left out in a game, like a deadzone in the towed array detection range or different cavitation speeds at different depths. Things that seem obvious to someone who regularly plays DW but aren't really that obvious in a video game. There's also small touches like whales. One time at the start of a mission I discovered 5 contacts - 4 of them turned out to be whales (the all got killed by the stray torpedoes though :( ). Your crew is even good enough to provide TMA solutions if they move.


All in all, it looks like a very good and fun game with only a few flaws that can (hopefully) be fixed.

PS. Forgive bad grammar - it's 3:30 AM here and I'm too lazy to read through the entire thing again :)

[Stardog765]

Great info from all and much appreciated.

Still trying to decide myself but i sounds like its VERY mod friendly which is a great sign now if we can get some clarification if setting a course and depth can be modded in or whether the devs would be willing to add it then I would be sold.

Again though great info from you guy and thats reason I have always came here for any such sim, just lurker until recently though :)

[cj95]

CJ gives this:


..........9/10 CRAZY IVANS!!

:Kaleun_Goofy:

[Char]

A few complaints So far is the Campaign's System of Contacts. Which, Basically throws you into a Single Mission Style arena. Setting up of an Ambush must take place from the a Big Map, and even then, I'm not always sure if I'm going to be put in the proper position. The Closing Distance Option is okay, Relating to the Sentence above, I'm not sure where the game will throw me in, so I'm not sure where I need to place myself.

The other issue is once you're in that instance we'll call it, That's it. If you leave, you fail. Even if your target is still in the SOSUS Line, and you're just repositioning after a 25k yard Approach somehow put them behind you in Your Baffles, you fail. It's a frustration I've never had before, The seeming lack of control to my approach. Perhaps I've been spoiled by Silent Hunter Too much? And perhaps with more hours I'll learn the system and overcome these complaints.


Now, GOOD Things. I'm quite in love with most of the OTHER game mechanics. The Controls, Whilst initially confusing to a Veteran SH Skipper, Were quite fun and easy to play around with. From Quick Dives to the slightest of course corrections, with not even maybe 10 minutes of practice, I was having no trouble with control. Treat it like an underwater jumbo jet. Steady corrections are the way to go.

Visuals aren't AAA, But, I've already admitted to playing a game series that's over 20 years old. The subs look good, the ships look good, the planes look good. the weapons look good. The Splash art for the Campaign screens are nice too (I See you M60A2 Patton "Starship") Sound is good too. The music is a good backdrop to what's going on around you. From just stalking a target, to the Impending approach of ASW Vessels. Weapons sound like you would expect them to. Sonar Pings send that familiar chill down your spine. Noisemakers Make their Noise, And the sound of Depth Charges splashes in the water make sitting in the Tactical Map a no go for me. My only issue here is a lack of Voiced Crew, or audible alerts to certain events. Things that may as well be fixed later down the line. They're certainly not a deal break for me either

Realism Levels are... Hmm. Sadly I'm not as versed in Cold War Era as most. So I'm a bit lacking here. But I'd say if a Nuke boat Skipper had to deal with something in 1968 or 1984, It's modeled as correctly as possible here. As others have said, It's not 100% "Do Everything" Sim. What isn't already Automated by Technology is Automated by trained professionals called "The Crew", which would be worrying about these tasks in a real boat anyways.

The AI is top Notch. I decided a few times to Mess with them. See what they could do. I was not disappointed. They are Aggressive, Relentless, and more importantly, GOOD at finding and killing you dead. Do not be afraid to drop down to easy until you get a hang of all the mechanics. I'm not going to judge you because all that I have said was done on normal.

The Weapons utilized are from what I can ascertain accurate. Though it gives me a little smirk to be in 1968 and firing Mark 16 Torpedoes. It's like reuniting with an old friend, except he's got this new and interesting Idea to get you Killed. (See Above Paragraph)

Overall, I have a lot to learn about the game and the mechanics still. But I look forward to learning them. though, I'm kind of disappointed in a lack of NATO Surface Vessels. It would be kind of interesting to see two Task Forces on the map Clash, and sticking yourself into the middle of it. Even as a Spectator it would be a sight to see.

Overall 7/10. I would Recommend if you want a Good Cold War Subsim that's Realistic enough to pass as a Simulation. But not as in depth as I've heard Dangerous Waters was.

Hours Played to Date: 3 Hours

[YoYo]

Thx for all infos! So I'll buy it too.

[Pirate]

I wish everyone would stop calling Cold Waters a subsim!
It's not a subsim.

It's a strategy and action game.

Compared to real subsims like DW, SC and SH series it's just plain arcadish...

Not only it does NOT really put you behind the "wheel" as all controls and functionality are dumbed down compared to subsims.

Yes, one thing it does have are gorgeous graphics!

[daft]

It also has tension in spades! I'm really liking this so far. It's quite difficult at times, but hey, it's war.

[xXNightEagleXx]

I wish everyone would stop calling Cold Waters a subsim!
It's not a subsim.

It's a strategy and action game.

Compared to real subsims like DW, SC and SH series it's just plain arcadish...

Not only it does NOT really put you behind the "wheel" as all controls and functionality are dumbed down compared to subsims.

Yes, one thing it does have are gorgeous graphics!

I'm sorry but i have to disagree. You do realize that a submarine has different crews each with its own role, right? For example, being a commander does not qualify you as an expert sonalyst. Silent Hunter does simulate at some degree each role, but fail to simulate a typical crew role. Instead you are forced to be a multitask crew member which is simply not realistic.

Cold Waters is neither a sonalyst sim, a radiomen sim nor fire control technician sim. Cold Waters is about being the Commander and his role is not to master the sonar nor master the machine room, his role is to give commands and take decisions, in order words decide the proper tactics that fits better to a given situation. So in this case, as you can see Cold Waters begin to get into sim category.

As a commander only what a sim must offer at this point is not manual control of multiple components of a submarine, but well done combat environment that force the commander to think twice and make them pay a high price when failing to do its homework (eg. failing to get enough awareness situation before proceeding with an attack).

What Cold Waters needs to really make it a good simulator is not to force you to manual control each aspect thus making it unrealistic but rather simulate systems failures and human error (for both AI and player crews) where applicable without adding artificial difficulties in order to avoid/reduce the 'gaming effect'.

Don't take me wrong, i really love having to plot everything by myself in Silent Hunter (although i don't like the tools that are given to you) but i would not bash Cold waters just because it doesn't offer that. It seems that some people failed to understand what Cold Waters was about!


Update: Obviously i ignored all bugs which MUST be fixed

[lesrae]

I'm with the majority of the reviews above, this is a great looking game (I'd say the needle swings over to game and away from simulation) which is engaging and great fun to play.

There are a few niggles that I'll report to the Dev's once I know the mechanism for doing so but nothing that make it unplayable.

Pros & Cons? I for one like the hands-on approach to driving the boat but would like to hear confirmation/information from the sonar station etc. rather than have to catch text pop up for a few seconds out of the corner of my eye.

One debug hint - I was having problems controlling the scope until I realised interference was coming from my joystick which was jammed over to one side (MS Force Feedback Pro with no power plugged in). After I centred that that everything was peachy.

:up:

[zachanscom]

game is great, but i wish the subs had more polygons, some edges are kind of sharp. especially charlie class when you look from the front. is it possible to extract the models and subdivide it and retopologize?

[xXNightEagleXx]

game is great, but i wish the subs had more polygons, some edges are kind of sharp. especially charlie class when you look from the front. is it possible to extract the models and subdivide it and retopologize?

I've noticed that too!

[Pirate]

I'm sorry but i have to disagree. You do realize that a submarine has different crews each with its own role, right? For example, being a commander does not qualify you as an expert sonalyst. Silent Hunter does simulate at some degree each role, but fail to simulate a typical crew role. Instead you are forced to be a multitask crew member which is simply not realistic.

Cold Waters is neither a sonalyst sim, a radiomen sim nor fire control technician sim. Cold Waters is about being the Commander and his role is not to master the sonar nor master the machine room, his role is to give commands and take decisions, in order words decide the proper tactics that fits better to a given situation. So in this case, as you can see Cold Waters begin to get into sim category.

As a commander only what a sim must offer at this point is not manual control of multiple components of a submarine, but well done combat environment that force the commander to think twice and make them pay a high price when failing to do its homework (eg. failing to get enough awareness situation before proceeding with an attack).

What Cold Waters needs to really make it a good simulator is not to force you to manual control each aspect thus making it unrealistic but rather simulate systems failures and human error (for both AI and player crews) where applicable without adding artificial difficulties in order to avoid/reduce the 'gaming effect'.

Don't take me wrong, i really love having to plot everything by myself in Silent Hunter (although i don't like the tools that are given to you) but i would not bash Cold waters just because it doesn't offer that. It seems that some people failed to understand what Cold Waters was about!


Update: Obviously i ignored all bugs which MUST be fixed

I'm not bashing cold waters, just saying it's not really a subsim like everyone else says, but rather a sub strategy and action game.

Also just taking a look at the way everyone is playing it, like for instance, dodging torps with the help of the external view, just confirms my point of view!

[xXNightEagleXx]

I'm not bashing cold waters, just saying it's not really a subsim like everyone else says, but rather a sub strategy and action game.

Also just taking a look at the way everyone is playing it, like for instance, dodging torps with the help of the external view, just confirms my point of view!

Well, probably that will be an issue for most if not all 3rd person subsim. Maybe even if they do provide you an inside sub camera, it might not provide you enough tools to have a correct situation awareness thus react in the proper way. However i do believe that there is a good solution to torpedoes issues, which is instead of showing they exactly position, they could give you a rough direction from where they are coming from (like the presence direction that old ghost recon games used) thus you have an idea from where they are coming from without being so precise.

Secondly but most important, a long time ago someone in this forum, Rockin Robbins, taught me a good lesson....just because a game has some flaws or tools that you can exploit, it doesn't mean you have to. You can just give you enough self discipline and ignore those things that you can exploit, especially when playing in solo or co-op against AI.

[cj95]

While overall I am very pleased with the game/sim/whatever, there is one thing that I note is lacking.


Tension.

I refer here to the hours and hours I have spent staring at DW or SC's waterfall sonar display imagining faint contacts in the static.

The tension came from....is there somebody out there? Or am I seeing things?

Cold Waters with its automated sonar functions provides easy answers ...yes there is someone out there...and they are generally thataway.

The mystery of faint contacts...real or not...seems absent.




That said overall a vey fun and worthy purchase.:salute:

[Skybird]

After all what I read I decided to wait a while and see what modders can do to the game mechanisms. While I played Red Storm Rising in and out back in those days, it were those days and not the present days - despite the graphics I wonder about the longevity of the game.

If the simulation elements get increased, I might get aboard. But it needs to become more simulation-style before I consider that.

[ikalugin]

When compared to the DW this is the "planesman sim" vs "sonar and TMA sim", as unlike in DW you do not work the sonar and TMA as much but instead of setting desired heading/speed/depth you have to manually play with the rudder, etc.

Cold Waters is neither a sonalyst sim, a radiomen sim nor fire control technician sim.
Correct, it is a planesman sim.

[StandingCow]

Cold Waters really seemed to find a happy median between a hardcore nuclear sub simulation and an arcade sub game. The controls are pretty simplistic but the gameplay is anything but. If you make a mistake and are detected you better be ready for what's coming for you.

:Kaleun_Cheers:

[Onkel Neal]

Pros & Cons? I for one like the hands-on approach to driving the boat but would like to hear confirmation/information from the sonar station etc. rather than have to catch text pop up for a few seconds out of the corner of my eye.



:up:

Agreed. Crew voice notifs will make this a lot better. Stay tuned for further details. :Kaleun_Applaud:

[StandingCow]

I really hope this sells well, not just for the future of the franchise but for Multiplayer in this version, as well as the ability to play the Russian side. Be nice to have some PvP.

[Hitman]

It seems a promising start with lots of potential. I don't blame the devs/producer for releasing a half-sim or a half-tactical game (depends on what you look at) but think instead it was a clever way to get started. We know the devs follow subsim, so I guess feedback here can see the game expanding in the future to those areas of pure simulation many people (Myself included) miss, like direct control of some stations. If it keeps getting support and sales, this could be further developed into satisfying all kind of public -or even the same person depending on his mood to play dirctly or from tactical POV. :Kaleun_Cheers:

[Foxendown]

I've spent about 2 hours or so with this sim now and overall am very pleased with it. Some random points, including things I'd like to see fixed:



I really don't like not knowing how much water is under my keel, have I missed something, can't see a keystroke?
I would like to be able to set an exact speed in knots (but can't complain really because Atlantic fleet was the same).
Graphics are good but for some reason on my system they look duller and flatter than in Atlantic Fleet (but I haven't tried tweaking settings yet).
Minimum requirements are wonderfully low, which means I ought to be able to play this on my Lynx 10 tablet.
I wish there was a Navigation tab as I find it easy to get confused with all the keystrokes. I've already broached by accident trying to go the other way and turned in the wrong direction. I've solved the problem by programming a gamepad now which works fine.
Being really petty now I know-but the briefings and other text needs proof reading again for typos and in the campaign screen the land force icon looks like a BMP-3 not in service till 1987 and even more wrong for NATO. Armour experts please correct me if I'm wrong!
Where is the level editor that was mentioned on the Steam Store page (reference now removed)?
I liked the tutorials and the help screen is a good feature but IMHO tutorials should always include some relatively easy scenarios in which you are under fire. As it is all you have are sitting ducks. Otherwise the single missions and campaigns can seem like a cliff wall to less experienced players.

So far, based on early impressions, I think Killerfish are to be congratulated on a great product, I do hope that now they will focus on enhancing this rather then heading off to something new. I would certainly go for a "Blue Storm Rising" add-on (one Soviet sub versus the might of NATO)

[Stardog765]

Thank you all for all of the great reviews on this.
I am still deciding myself but will likely go ahead and pick it up as I REALLY want to support these guys and the future of what this game could be.

I was not looking for DW out of the gate but my hopes are that this might be a mod friendly starting platform for an eventual DW level game.

Knowing that his community is so supportive of it out of the gate and positive about what could be really helps me make my decision.


Thanks

[xXNightEagleXx]

Thank you all for all of the great reviews on this.
I am still deciding myself but will likely go ahead and pick it up as I REALLY want to support these guys and the future of what this game could be.

I was not looking for DW out of the gate but my hopes are that this might be a mod friendly starting platform for an eventual DW level game.

Knowing that his community is so supportive of it out of the gate and positive about what could be really helps me make my decision.


Thanks

One of the reason that i bought it and did not filed for a refund is because i want to support this guys. I mean the game has some flaws and some concept design that does not reflects 100% what i'm looking for but .... sub games itself is a niche product, either arcade or sim, so to attract others devs or even a high profile publisher (talking to you Ubisoft) the only thing that we can do is to show that there is a market here, tiny, but there is. Only by attracting others dev we might aspire to have a real Silent Hunter successor someday.

[PL_Harpoon]

After spending a few more hours in the game I have to say I'm increasingly more impressed and have take back what I've said about the torpedoes.

Firstly, they behave just like they should. I had a similar situation as before but this time I was close enough to see what's happening. This time I fooled the torpedo with a noisemaker and turned the opposite way to run away. After passing through the NM the torpedo entered circular search pattern and didn't found me after first circle, but on the second one it picked me up again.

Secondly there's no bug with torpedoes braking wire where they shouldn't. If you don't do any sharp manoeuvrers you can easily keep the wire intact. Provided it won't break on launch.

Also I found several nice touches to the game. For example, if you fire torpedoes during sharp manoeuvres (especially at sharp angles) it will get stuck inside the tube rendering it useless.

Another thing is that someone here mentioned that you can't break the towed array. Well, considering that signal strength from towed array drops significantly above 10 kts and shows 0 above 15 I like to imagine that the crewman responsible just automatically retrieves it at those speeds. I know it should take much more time than accelerating from 5 to 15 knots but at least it's better than nothing :)

One more thing to mention is that the game can be really satisfying. It feels really good when you use all your tactical advantages (thermal layers, staying near the surface when the sea is high, or creeping at the bottom if the enemy is shallow, using signal strength comparison to figure out his detection range etc), manage to get into the baffles and shoot the enemy at close range so that he can't do anything to avoid the hit.

Also, the AI seems a bit more competent at Hard difficulty, i.e. they're much more conservative with the usage of active sonar. One time I had a duel with a sub during which through the entire time I had no sonar contact with the enemy. I had to entirely depend on his occasional active pings (they can give you 1-3 pings and then stay silent) and direction of his torpedoes to kill him.

And lastly, you can play entire encounters from the tactical view. Even dodging torpedoes isn't that difficult (statistically I survived more attacks while not relying on a 3d view). I'm beginning to use the 3d view as an eye-candy tool when there's no immediate threat.

[Stardog765]

Great info!

Good to hear as I really like the tactical view. Well I believe my defenses have been sufficiently broken down. Off to Steam I go :/

[xXNightEagleXx]

After spending a few more hours in the game I have to say I'm increasingly more impressed and have take back what I've said about the torpedoes.

Firstly, they behave just like they should. I had a similar situation as before but this time I was close enough to see what's happening. This time I fooled the torpedo with a noisemaker and turned the opposite way to run away. After passing through the NM the torpedo entered circular search pattern and didn't found me after first circle, but on the second one it picked me up again.

Secondly there's no bug with torpedoes braking wire where they shouldn't. If you don't do any sharp manoeuvrers you can easily keep the wire intact. Provided it won't break on launch.

Also I found several nice touches to the game. For example, if you fire torpedoes during sharp manoeuvres (especially at sharp angles) it will get stuck inside the tube rendering it useless.

Another thing is that someone here mentioned that you can't break the towed array. Well, considering that signal strength from towed array drops significantly above 10 kts and shows 0 above 15 I like to imagine that the crewman responsible just automatically retrieves it at those speeds. I know it should take much more time than accelerating from 5 to 15 knots but at least it's better than nothing :)

One more thing to mention is that the game can be really satisfying. It feels really good when you use all your tactical advantages (thermal layers, staying near the surface when the sea is high, or creeping at the bottom if the enemy is shallow, using signal strength comparison to figure out his detection range etc), manage to get into the baffles and shoot the enemy at close range so that he can't do anything to avoid the hit.

Also, the AI seems a bit more competent at Hard difficulty, i.e. they're much more conservative with the usage of active sonar. One time I had a duel with a sub during which through the entire time I had no sonar contact with the enemy. I had to entirely depend on his occasional active pings (they can give you 1-3 pings and then stay silent) and direction of his torpedoes to kill him.

And lastly, you can play entire encounters from the tactical view. Even dodging torpedoes isn't that difficult (statistically I survived more attacks while not relying on a 3d view). I'm beginning to use the 3d view as an eye-candy tool when there's no immediate threat.

same here 3d only for eyecandy but actually playing using the tactical view.

[Onkel Neal]

One of the reason that i bought it and did not filed for a refund is because i want to support this guys. I mean the game has some flaws and some concept design that does not reflects 100% what i'm looking for but .... sub games itself is a niche product, either arcade or sim, so to attract others devs or even a high profile publisher (talking to you Ubisoft) the only thing that we can do is to show that there is a market here, tiny, but there is. Only by attracting others dev we might aspire to have a real Silent Hunter successor someday.

I think that's a really good attitude to have, sub games are so rare we really should be supportive of developers who work as hard as Killerfish did on Cold Waters.

[ETR3(SS)]

I haven't gotten it yet myself, but to address the issues some players are having with maintaining depth control. There haven't been a lot of games that give the player control over the control surfaces of a submarine, even less that accurately portray the physics of sub driving. Pulling from personal experience driving an Ohio Class SSBN(trainer and real) and being in a 688 trainer. When driving, think Newton and his laws of physics. An object in motion remains in motion unless acted on by another force. So if you plane upwards to get to PD, you'll need to arrest that upward force by planing down. The more you use, the sooner you'll have to counter the ships movement as well. The less planes you use initially will mean having to use less planes to counter. Same is also true with the rudder. When turning you'll have to swing the rudder in the opposite direction to stop on the course that you want. I believe that can be seen in SC and DW if you order a course and watch the rudder angle indicator.

[xXNightEagleXx]

I really don't like not knowing how much water is under my keel, have I missed something, can't see a keystroke?

You can, t shows in the conditions tab but only when the bottom is lower than 1000ft

[PL_Harpoon]

I haven't gotten it yet myself, but to address the issues some players are having with maintaining depth control. There haven't been a lot of games that give the player control over the control surfaces of a submarine, even less that accurately portray the physics of sub driving. Pulling from personal experience driving an Ohio Class SSBN(trainer and real) and being in a 688 trainer. When driving, think Newton and his laws of physics. An object in motion remains in motion unless acted on by another force. So if you plane upwards to get to PD, you'll need to arrest that upward force by planing down. The more you use, the sooner you'll have to counter the ships movement as well. The less planes you use initially will mean having to use less planes to counter. Same is also true with the rudder. When turning you'll have to swing the rudder in the opposite direction to stop on the course that you want. I believe that can be seen in SC and DW if you order a course and watch the rudder angle indicator.

That's actually a good technique in the game. Sure, if you level your planes after a dive you will eventually stop descending but if you instead go full up the boat will level much quicker. It's not fully newtonian physics but it's a good thing as you'd need analogue controls and close attention to every turn.

[mmaruda]

Here is my initial noob impressions after fooling around for an hour. For me, the game hit the sweet spot between realism and complication.

Dangerous Waters is something I hold in very high regard, but it's one of those titles that remain shelved until I retire or something. My history with this sim is that of confusion, being overwhelmed and failing miserably. I am probably too impatient and/or stupid for it at the moment and I don't have enough time to spend learning the more advanced stuff not to end up dead right after someone sneezes on the boat.

So far I used CMANO to scratch my nuclear boat itch, but certain things there are too general and there is zero eye candy for my sub-loving eyes.

Enter Cold Waters, a game that was advertised as easy to control and understand, while still having enough depth to satisfy my humble hunger for authenticity. Plus them eye candies!

So far the vibes are good. The game looks great and does require at least basic knowledge of sub tactics and common sense, so thoughtful play is rewarded. I also like the fact that you are essentially the captain of a boat and not every crew member at once. There is a good reason why certain military machinery requires a crew to operate - one person can only handle as many tasks in a pressure-heavy situation. Doing periscope stuff, drawing things on a map and steering the sub at the same time in something like Silent Hunter was often and exhausting experience to the point of frustration. Cold Waters doesn't do that. The only thing you are required to do manually, is piloting the boat, but it's a lot of fun. Maybe except going to periscope depth, it's easy to surface if you are not careful and that means torpedo hell. While it might be frustrating to some extent, I guess that is something people will need to adapt to, and probably this aspect won't be an issue after some practice. Another minor issue is the fact that towed arrays aren't rendered, but maybe this will get patched in at some point.

The enemy AI seems capable - ships start to zig-zag when you are made, helos dip sonars and launch torpedoes like crazy and those Bears can be pretty relentless. However, running from enemy torpedoes is quite exciting - I went to surface when I though there was noone around to make some screeshots and in less then a minute a Bear started dropping things into the water. Luckily I managed to dive and rush to around 1000 ft doing some crazy turning and non got me. It's cool to see how the torps go into search patterns or miss you by meters and the direct control and 3d view give you the tools to do some aware evasion, even if it's a bit arcade'y. All in all, I had fun and was able to learn the game mechanics while playing without putting too much stress on the brain, while still having the impression that this is not your today's idiot-back-patting underwater shooter, but a product for grown men.

A couple of things that I consider flaws though:
- tutorials are done on an old school way, meaning there is no narration or step by step tutor-guided introduction to various aspects, you need to figure things out on you own and reference the manual (thankfully it's available under SHIFT+F1 and not to long, so you won't find yourself spending hours looking for what you need).
- there is no crew voices, you need to watch those text messages
- the interface also does not feature tooltips and you do need to remember quite a few key commands
- some basic crew management would be nice, but that is just my wishlist stuff.

All in all, if you are totally anal about operating a sonar, plotting a solution, keeping an eye on how much compressed air you have etc and that is you main focus, you probably won't find too much to tackle your fancy. But if you just want a lightweight sim/wargame about subs with enough authenticity to consider it a "serious" game, Cold Waters seems like a great product. I would definitely recommend this as an entry-level game to naval simulations. It's also one of the few games that are placed during the Cold War.

[Nippelspanner]

I want to like it.
But I simply can't at the moment.


While I do not regret to support the title, I am disappointed in the 1.0 result, so far. It feels too arcade for my taste, and is ridden with bugs, while many "features" make you want to rip your hair out.


Some things out of my head:
- Instant-ASW aircraft with pin-point sonobuoy-spam.
- Enemy submarines going active all the time, because it's Tuesday.
- Enemy submarines hitting the ground very(!) often, because Vodka.
- You fired a wire-guided torp eh? Let's cut that wire because 25% yolo!
- I got killed - back to "We have a sonar contact!" screen, "repeating" the same mission(?)
- Loading Special Forces did unload everything else without warning/notice, so I sailed out with just 4 Mk48 in my tubes - come at me bruh!
- Briefing demands to sink special targets - your commander pisses on you for trying to guesstimate what might be your target among all those same ship symbols present (so. not. fun.).
- Apparently, all it takes to fool modern torpedoes is putting your rudder hard to port/starboard. If in doubt -> knuckle. 100% fail safe - except against wire guided torpedoes.
- Russian surface groups don't know EMCON - non-stop pinging. Yay, disco!
(heard this is kinda legit, but I have doubts tbh.)
- Overall gameplay seems "too close" - even at max spawn range, and player is thrown into action too quickly with no time to maneuver whatsoever. This is bad, so very, very bad!
- Campaign map lacks features and action. It is interesting for exactly 11,4 seconds. Then you've seen it all, and Europe being completely covered in snow, in November, gets odd too.
- No crew voices. This is a deal breaker for me. It disconnects you from your sub, steals immersion and authenticity, and most importantly: The feeling of commanding something alive, due to ~130 souls aboard.
I heard the devs want to add them later - but this is a review, not a "let's pretend it will be great at some point"-view.
- Mini-map desperately needs a range-meter, so you can judge distance at all. Right now, contacts on it could be right next to you, or in a different time zone - you wouldn't know besides the range data the contact itself shows, but that's different. Situational awareness is key, and here the game is lacking, I feel.
- All manual controls. While it reigns supreme for evasive maneuvers, it sucks so hard for periscope depth, or simple maneuvers. I am the Captain! All I should need to do is order course and depth, so i can focus on other things. Here I have to constantly watch not going below crush depth, broaching the surface, or turning too far during course adjustments, all while not losing focus for combat. Terrible design decision.

Honestly, gameplay feels like a 20€ game for mobiles or tablets, as - if broken down - it is the same over and over and over, unfortunately.
The "dynamic campaign" doesn't change that, due to the quick-mission like scenarios. This isn't really convincing me at all, and I am sorry to say so.


Now the positive things in a nut shell:
- Optics are fantastic mostly (some FX look horrible, like underwater explosions, others look great, like overall lighting).
- Sounds are splendid. Could hardly be better. Everything sounds as I would expect it, and the sounds are high quality, not some cracking mono-garbage like in the Sonalyst titles (age is no excuse).
- Artwork is beautiful. Period.

Now, the developers seem to have their hearts in the right spot for this title, and I am rather confident that many things mentioned above will be fixed or addressed. On top, it is moddable in some aspects, another big plus.
Yet, the devs need to step up their game (no pun) to really turn this title into a simulation. In all honesty, having nice models and NATO-format briefings with more-or-less accurate sonar modeling really doesn't cut it while AI is failing (see above) or gameplay feels like on methamphetamine in a dark closet.
(And I set speed and range scaling to 1:1, yes.)

[daft]

I'am having so much fun with this game it must be illegal. My review from Steam:

So let get this out of the way immediately. This is not Dangerous Waters, Sub Command or Jane’s 688(i) Hunter/Killer. This is not a tech sim in sense that each station is meticulously researched and modelled and your job as the player is NOT about staring at the green sonar waterfall display until your eyes bleed. This is a much lower fidelity sim than the above-mentioned titles, focusing primarily on the command decisions a nuclear submarine captain would face. It is also a loving recreation of sorts of the classic Red Storm Rising, which is certainly no bad thing.

As such, it is doing a marvelous job at keeping me entertained and challenged. The survivability of the boat rests on your shoulders as you advance through the campaign. WWIII has broken out and it is up to you to perform the various tasks command sends down the line to you. Convoys and Soviet subs roam the Atlantic and if you run into them the game takes you into battle mode where you get to test your tactical acumen against a sharp and ruthless AI. The auto-crew will handle sonar duty, TMA and weapons release while you focus on getting the boat into a firing position undetected. It is also up to you to device an evasion plan, because when that torp goes into the water, chances are you will be counter detected and attacked. Ruthlessly.

Cold Waters is in my book much more adept at supplying that suspension of disbelief that the older and higher fidelity submarine simulators often lack in my opinion. They are great at technically reproducing the inner workings of a nuclear submarine, but this a whole different kettle of fish. This is war, and you are in command, and that feeling is very efficiently conveyed thanks to beautiful design, art and graphics. It also forces you to make interesting and risky decisions. Approaching enemy convoys, maneuvering into the baffles of two silent diesel subs, avoiding detection while dropping off a SEAL-team outside Archangelsk, all helps to create heaps of tension and suspense. It is a proper submarine experience in every sense of the word.

[Julhelm]

The enemy subs using active sonar a lot is grounded in history. The USS Lapon trailed a Soviet Yankee class for 47 days, being able to reacquire it several times after losing contact because the Soviet sub would light off its active sonar.

Because most Soviet boats prior to the Victor 3 are so noisy, this significantly degrades the performance of their passive sensors, and as such they rely more on the active. In game, they will do sprint and drift tactics, and alternate between active sonar search and doing passive listening while drifting. This has the added gameplay benefit of their sonar emissions giving you a hint as to their direction, even if you are not in a position to detect them passively.

The surface ships employ the same sprint and drift tactics in the game, but they use active sonar much more liberally since they are essentially blind at higher speeds.

[Janus]

- All manual controls. While it reigns supreme for evasive maneuvers, it sucks so hard for periscope depth, or simple maneuvers. I am the Captain! All I should need to do is order course and depth, so i can focus on other things. Here I have to constantly watch not going below crush depth, broaching the surface, or turning too far during course adjustments, all while not losing focus for combat. Terrible design decision.


This is the major point holding me back from buying it at the moment.

[daft]

This is the major point holding me back from buying it at the moment.

I was sceptical initially, but I think it's quite fun now. I do wish it was an option though, not the only way to control the sub.

[Onkel Neal]

I'am having so much fun with this game it must be illegal. My review from Steam:


Thanks for posting, well written and really exhibits the flavor of this game :Kaleun_Cheers:

[Killerfish Games]

I was sceptical initially, but I think it's quite fun now. I do wish it was an option though, not the only way to control the sub.
This has been a sticking point for many and we're going to look into it after we get the initial bugs fixed.

[daft]

This has been a sticking point for many and we're going to look into it after we get the initial bugs fixed.

Glad to hear! You have a little gem on your hands IMO. I hope it gets enough traction sales wise for you to build on that and make it even better. :)

[Lanzfeld]

Hella fun game so far. It's been keeping me up late.

Couple things for you to look at for the first tweak.

1. It would be nice to include the estimated death of a submarine that we are tracking without going to the F5 display. Maybe put it in with all the other data like course and speed?

2. And explanation of what all the various difficulty levels actually do.

3. I've mentioned this before but again it seems very odd to see Russian nuclear attack submarines going around with active sonar on much of the time. I really think they need to act more stealthy. The older and louder boats I understand but the newer ones should try to be quiet and not use active sonar.

Great work and please keep at it!

4. Oh yes! I alomost forgot.......an in game timepiece please.

5. Brighter lights on the ESM detector!!!

[Hans Schultz]

Here is my quick review after about 8 hours into the game.

This is unequivocally the spiritual successor to Tom Clancy’s Red Storm Rising. From the Campaign map to the tone of the game will remind you of Red Storm Rising, in a good way. This has been said before but I’ll echo it once again. This is not 688(i) Fleet Command, Sub Command or any Janes/Sonalysts game. Again that’s not a bad thing, it’s just different to expect….well….a different game. Sim, Sim lite, arcade, action. I don’t rightly know how to characterize the game. It certainly has simulation elements combined with action elements and it’s a great combination with TONS of potential. Potential is where I’ll leave the review. I like this game, it’s fun, it’s engaging and it shows lots of promise. Let’s face it in the PlayStation generation Simulations are a niche, subsims even more so. It’s up to the developer now to patch and polish what could be a gem.
The game has a nice help screen and in game quick reference. Tutorial missions, single missions and a 1968 and 1984 WW3 dynamic campaign.

Here are a few issues I have with the game at this time:

- No verbal/audio announcements for events in the game. Other than the small text in the status box on the bottom right of the screen. I don’t know how many times an Ace Russian ASW pilot dropped a torpedo and I don’t realize it because I didn’t see the notification. Audio announcements of “Torpedo in the water!” and things like that are a MUST! Crew voices are essential.

-Not being able to issue orders. I love manually controlling the sub and maneuvering it how I want. However, it would be nice to be able to set a course or set a depth.

-ASW aircraft are insanely accurate. They are on you before you know there are surface/submarine targets in the area. They have laser accurate sonobouys and torpedoes. Over all their weapons and sensors are too accurate.

-Helicopters stay on station too long, they would long run out of gas. (source I’m a military helo pilot) Bears fly over you unimpeded even when close to a friendly coast or we have air superiority.

-Surface task groups drive in with active sonar blazing, even if they aren’t sure you are there, or anything is there. They ping away making it almost impossible to sneak in for the attack.

-Even at the Max spawn of 25k yds the enemy is detecting you and engaging you too quickly. It almost instant.

-Coming off the campaign map to an engagement the player is always put in a poor tactical position. It’s maddening.

-Enemy submarines are ping way too often again running your stalking and then they instantly detect you and you’ve got torps incoming.

-Torpedo wires are cut too easily in my opinion. Even moving gently 5 or 10 degrees.

-Campaign briefings designate you to attack a particular target and intercept on the campaign screen. Sometimes it is difficult to find or you engage other targets or say take damage. Your failure is too drastic the debrief make it seem like your failure causes us to lose the war and you’re the sole submarine operating in the wear. It’s extremely annoying.

-Campaign map is boring. Where are the friendly subs, carrier groups, convoys, shipping lanes, front lines, fighter CAP patrols SOSUS stations? Oh how about a friendly sub tender maybe, please? It’s boring and plain not much else to say.

-Mini map needs drawing tools, range tools, more details and ways to organize contacts.

-As Nippelspanner said in his review, “Situational awareness is key, and here the game is lacking.” I could not say it better or agree more.

-Graphics are in the good category. I have a high-end system. I7 7700k, 32BG RAM, GTX1080 and some textures are beautiful and some are outright rough. I was honestly a tad disappointed in the textures but the 3D models are outstanding.

-Sounds are great once you turn the music off.

-The 1960s and 1980s propaganda art and news filling in between events is a really cool touch.

-I have so many issues with damage control and flooding being fixed then not fixed and fixed again. I’ve been back to port to repair and still have a compartment completely flooded. This game is buggy at it’s current state.

In summary, I think this game can be great. It’s fun and engaging in its current state but it’s far from perfect. I’m completely happy to support the devs and look forward to what they can produce in the future.
:Kaleun_Cheers:

[Julhelm]

The campaign map assumes you make contact while at the speed you are doing, so left mouse button means doing full speed ahead. If you park the sub and let the enemy come to you, you will start in a more favourable position.

[macstu23]

I too have had my finger hovering over the 'Buy' button on Steam since this game's release. For the longest time I've been hoping for a game that is something like Silent Hunter but set in the Cold War era. I realise now Cold Waters doesn't quite fit that bill exactly, but it appears on the surface (pardon the pun) to be something I could still get into.
Some of the user reviews on Steam have been encouraging, but others have likewise had me holding back from buying, prefering instead to at and see. Anyway, I'm glad I paid a visit here (has it really been so long since last time?) to find out what the word was on Cold Waters. Your fair reviews, giving both the rough and the smooth, have been enough to convince me that, while this may not quite live up to my hopes of being a Cold War 'Silent Hunter', it's about as close as I'm likely to get for quite some time.
I'm also very much encouraged that Killerfish games have stated they are going to look into addressing some of the issues you're all talking about. This could well be the start of something great, so I'm heading over to Steam right now to hit that 'Buy' button.
Will no doubt post again in a day or two with more informed opinion. Cheers folks.

[Nippelspanner]

The most annoying thing for me so far:

You are drawn into a fight. You spend a lot of time to "escape" by hitting the red zone because the sonobuoy spam is causing the "vessel nearby!" annoyance, only to be drawn back in immediately after, without having a chance to move on the campaign map. ARGGH!
That is especially annoying when heavily damaged, or out of weapons.

P L E A S E give us a "break contact" option, by all that's holy, please!

[basti107]

I wonder if there is a logfile for messages in the game.

This tool could work with Cold Waters:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3457871

[Hans Schultz]

The campaign map assumes you make contact while at the speed you are doing, so left mouse button means doing full speed ahead. If you park the sub and let the enemy come to you, you will start in a more favourable position.

I understand about the differing speeds on the campaign map. I still have not seen the player put into an advantageous position even when "parked".

[Nippelspanner]

I understand about the differing speeds on the campaign map. I still have not seen the player put into an advantageous position even when "parked".
I feel the player is to close, even at max range (25Kyds/ just 12,3nmi!).
This isn't a range I would like to be at when my goal is a missile strike at some surface group.
Heck, that's not the range I want to be near heavily armed enemies no matter what.

35-40kyds as an option would be nice.
Room and time to maneuver, to stake everything out, use your better sensors...

[PL_Harpoon]

I agree on that one. More distance = more options.

[Stardog765]

Are you guys playing with the default distance scale?
I know default is 1:2. The setting for 1:1 is there but its not default.

Just a thought

[Lanzfeld]

I still don't fully understand what this distance setting does

[Nippelspanner]

Are you guys playing with the default distance scale?
I know default is 1:2. The setting for 1:1 is there but its not default.

Just a thought
Good looking out, but no.
1:1 for time and distance.

[Nippelspanner]

I still don't fully understand what this distance setting does
It scales the distance.
So if you set distance scaling to 1:2 (or whatever is available, I don't know), it would mean that a nmi ingame would "in reality" be only 0,5nmi, by that speeding up gameplay since everything's closer together.
Same with time.

That's what I read into it, at least.

[Char]

More Playing Around with the Campaign:

-Campaign map issues are easily solved my monitoring when you "Bump" into things. I've gotten ahead and abeam with a perfect intercept on the map, giving me a good firing solution on a tanker and escorts.

Problem: Distance setting seems to do nothing, or is not set to Represent the Default 1:2 Ratio. Will try on 1:1 and see if I'm not spawning in at 10k when I choose 25k and stationary Start.

-Aircraft are Psychic. There seems to be NO time between when you do anything noisy or alerting (Like say Launching Torpedoes) and a Bear or Heli appearing. I assume Helis, because only testing in 1968 campaign. Going back to above Convoy, Launched Mark 16s, Undetected from 8k. Good Spread on the tanker. Undetected, Dove,Undetected. Convoy begins maneuvering, Detecting Torpedoes. 10 seconds later, Bear Flies over.

Tanker Takes Hit, sinks. Escorts, STILL EVADING have begun moving away from area. This Attack was perfect... I was sneaking away. I would like to again reiterate, Escorts have NOT even realized I'm here. Bear Drops Sonar Bouy about 4k yards off my port. BAM! Both Escorts Immediately make full Steam back at me. Absolutely Ridiculous.

-Damage Control. Simplistic and effective. However, Better Flooding indicators are needed. I need to know IF a compartment will begin flooding again when I remove the Damage Control Team to another compartment.

-Torpedoes going to Gyro Angle before Clearing the Bow of the Submarine. Had this happen a few times with the Mk. 37. which causes it to contact and detonate. The launches in question were at 5 and 10 knots respectively, and were not more than 10-12 Degrees Opposite of firing tube. Someone Correct me if I'm long, but don't Torpedoes usually have a minimum Arming distance?

-Noisemakers: Bug or Feature? It seems i'm unable to Resupply them at port.

Overall, Enjoying the game when I'm not getting hunted to death by Bears flying well within Friendly NATO Airspace close to NATO controlled Norway, even closer to Potentionally active Norwegian Airbases :hmmm:

[FPSchazly]

The most annoying thing for me so far:

You are drawn into a fight. You spend a lot of time to "escape" by hitting the red zone because the sonobuoy spam is causing the "vessel nearby!" annoyance, only to be drawn back in immediately after, without having a chance to move on the campaign map. ARGGH!
That is especially annoying when heavily damaged, or out of weapons.

P L E A S E give us a "break contact" option, by all that's holy, please!

Yes, I believe this is a bug that will be addressed shortly. It is annoying lol

[Nippelspanner]

Yes, I believe this is a bug that will be addressed shortly. It is annoying lol
Yes it feels like a bug indeed.
Especially as I once experienced it after being killed(!), haha.
Still, the option to leave it be and take a hike would be great.

[Nippelspanner]

-Aircraft are Psychic. There seems to be NO time between when you do anything noisy or alerting (Like say Launching Torpedoes) and a Bear or Heli appearing. I assume Helis, because only testing in 1968 campaign. Going back to above Convoy, Launched Mark 16s, Undetected from 8k. Good Spread on the tanker. Undetected, Dove,Undetected. Convoy begins maneuvering, Detecting Torpedoes. 10 seconds later, Bear Flies over.

Tanker Takes Hit, sinks. Escorts, STILL EVADING have begun moving away from area. This Attack was perfect... I was sneaking away. I would like to again reiterate, Escorts have NOT even realized I'm here. Bear Drops Sonar Bouy about 4k yards off my port. BAM! Both Escorts Immediately make full Steam back at me. Absolutely Ridiculous.

-Damage Control. Simplistic and effective. However, Better Flooding indicators are needed. I need to know IF a compartment will begin flooding again when I remove the Damage Control Team to another compartment.

-Torpedoes going to Gyro Angle before Clearing the Bow of the Submarine. Had this happen a few times with the Mk. 37. which causes it to contact and detonate. The launches in question were at 5 and 10 knots respectively, and were not more than 10-12 Degrees Opposite of firing tube. Someone Correct me if I'm long, but don't Torpedoes usually have a minimum Arming distance?

-Noisemakers: Bug or Feature? It seems i'm unable to Resupply them at port.

Overall, Enjoying the game when I'm not getting hunted to death by Bears flying well within Friendly NATO Airspace close to NATO controlled Norway, even closer to Potentionally active Norwegian Airbases :hmmm:

Solid observations!
I'm sure with all the feedback the devs can address these things. The friggin' Bears especially. If not, I would probably mod them out of the game myself, lol.

[Julhelm]

It could well be that the sonobouys are too uber, as well. You can tweak these values yourself in the sensors file:

SonarModel=wp_rgb_56
SonarType=SONOBUOY
SonarFrequencies=M
SonarActiveSensitivity=21
SonarPassiveSensitivity=0
SonarBaffle=FALSE
SonarNoisePerKnot=0
SonarOutput=200
SonarDescription=Some text here.

SonarModel=wp_rgb_64
SonarType=SONOBUOY
SonarFrequencies=M
SonarActiveSensitivity=0
SonarPassiveSensitivity=40
SonarBaffle=FALSE
SonarNoisePerKnot=0
SonarOutput=0
SonarDescription=Some text here.

SonarModel=wp_bm_1
SonarType=SONOBUOY
SonarFrequencies=M
SonarActiveSensitivity=0
SonarPassiveSensitivity=40
SonarBaffle=FALSE
SonarNoisePerKnot=0
SonarOutput=0
SonarDescription=Some text here.

SonarModel=wp_bm_2
SonarType=SONOBUOY
SonarFrequencies=M
SonarActiveSensitivity=0
SonarPassiveSensitivity=40
SonarBaffle=FALSE
SonarNoisePerKnot=0
SonarOutput=0
SonarDescription=Some text here.

SonarModel=wp_bm_3
SonarType=SONOBUOY
SonarFrequencies=M
SonarActiveSensitivity=21
SonarPassiveSensitivity=0
SonarBaffle=FALSE
SonarNoisePerKnot=0
SonarOutput=200
SonarDescription=Some text here.
What would be good detection ranges for passive and active bouys? Maybe reducing these values by 5 or 10db makes a huge difference.

[Julhelm]

I believe there is some bugging with the spawning where it doesn't spawn contacts distant enough from you. The fact that layers are often absurdly shallow compounds this issue as you spawn beneath them, whereas you should be spawning in the duct and pick them up at long range. We'll come up with a solution to this. I agree that if you line up an ambush you should start 30-40kyds out.

[Lanzfeld]

Thanks Julhelm!
Outstanding!

Also.......that Active Sonar logic needs a look.

[PL_Harpoon]

Solid observations!
I'm sure with all the feedback the devs can address these things. The friggin' Bears especially. If not, I would probably mod them out of the game myself, lol.

Actually I did a little test and found a possible way to disable aircrafts for now. Just go to "aircraft.txt" find the bear and change it's cruise speed to 1.
It will still spawn but will just hang in the air so unless you accidentally sail past it, you shouldn't even notice it's there.

[Schmonzo]

At this stage it is super buggy (gamebreaking bugs included).
I would refrain from buying this until they fixed it.
I bought it just to support devs making subsims, but this (although really fun IF it works) is just a mess right now. Feels more like an alpha than a finished game.

[Julhelm]

That's just a result of having a very limited internal testing team (3 people). Suffice to say we felt we had a very stable and mostly bug-free build, so we release it and now we suddenly have thousands of users reproducing bugs we though were fixed (because we thought we knew the only ways to reproduce them).

[Char]

That's just a result of having a very limited internal testing team (3 people). Suffice to say we felt we had a very stable and mostly bug-free build, so we release it and now we suddenly have thousands of users reproducing bugs we though were fixed (because we thought we knew the only ways to reproduce them).


If playing Bethesda games have taught me anything "If you release it, we will break it in new and interesting ways" :D

[Hans Schultz]

That's just a result of having a very limited internal testing team (3 people). Suffice to say we felt we had a very stable and mostly bug-free build, so we release it and now we suddenly have thousands of users reproducing bugs we though were fixed (because we thought we knew the only ways to reproduce them).

Still a fantastic product. I can't wait to see your company grow and thrive.

[Giesemaschine]

That's just a result of having a very limited internal testing team (3 people). Suffice to say we felt we had a very stable and mostly bug-free build, so we release it and now we suddenly have thousands of users reproducing bugs we though were fixed (because we thought we knew the only ways to reproduce them).

You and your team of 3 people have created an amazing subsim that has had me hooked all week.

This has quickly become one of my favorite games of all time, and like others have said I also am looking forward to seeing where you take Cold Waters :Kaleun_Salute:

[daft]

You and your team of 3 people have created an amazing subsim that has had me hooked all week.

This has quickly become one of my favorite games of all time, and like others have said I also am looking forward to seeing where you take Cold Waters :Kaleun_Salute:

Yeah, this game has med revved up in a way I haven't been since the release of SH4. :)

[PL_Harpoon]

Same here. Despite all the issues I'm still having a blast. Can't remember when was the last time I had so much fun with a video game TBH.

[keltos01]

Same here. Despite all the issues I'm still having a blast. Can't remember when was the last time I had so much fun with a video game TBH.

I concur wholeheartedly

Keltos

[Onkel Neal]

Agreed. This is one of the few games I enjoy playing so much, I keep putting off finishing the review. But tonight I will buckle down, grit my teeth and put the game aside and complete the review.