B-17s over Germany !

[Kendras]

B-17s over Germany !

http://i.imgur.com/0ScZ3Wf.png

Hello folks,

Here is a small eye candy mod for those who love airplanes, as me.

This mod introduces entire formations of B17 Flying Fortresses, the so famous American bomber of the Second World War. Each formation is in fact a unique air unit : all the airplanes of the formation are contained in the same file. This method allows to correctly place each aircraft in the formation, and to spawn many bombers with only a very small impact on the graphics performances (FPS). For example, the single mission attached to this mod will spawn no less than 651 B17s !

I have created 6 different groups of bombers, based on historical documents and pictures. Also a new sound comes with the mod, to give the necessary noise made by all these airplanes !

The model of the B17 is not new, this is the one which comes with GWX 3.0. I've just simplified a bit the model (still to improve graphics performances) and reworked the texture.

Also, it is possible to give to each bombers the condensation trails which appeared at high altitudes. This can be made easilly by setting the right bomb loadout in the mission editor (choose "High Altitude instead of "basic").

Now, the next step will be to add these units in your campaign file.

WARNING !
This mod could have a very bad psychological effect on your crew ! Use with moderation ! :03:

Preview pictures : http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2470936&postcount=34

D/L link : http://www.mediafire.com/file/hsagg3sjajbqc87/Kendras%27_B17s_Formations.zip

Read carefully the installation instructions (readme file).

Have fun !

http://i.imgur.com/gyeJ1V0.png

[Kendras]

Just to make you feel a little more useless at the end of the war (immersive mod) ! ... :haha:

[gap]

I just need a little help from a (not necessarily) skilled man in 3D modelling.

What do you need? :)

[Kendras]

Hi gap ! :salute:

Very happy to see you again ! :yep:

About this mod, let me explain what I would like to do :

I got the in-game screenshot above by adding one by one some B17 airplanes. But the FPS were reduced to something like 5 ! To avoid this and save ressources, two things have to be done :

1. to make a very simple model of a B17 with a very simple texture, because they will be seen at very high altitude, so details are not required at all. To save you some time, there is a good model in GWX. It just has to be simplified (less polygons, no guns ....) and done in a single part (no child nodes for wings, motors ....). Moreover, I just don't like the texture, and I would prefer two different textures : a plain white and a plain brown.

2. to create a new single air unit which will be in fact an ENTIRE B17 squadron made with your small models. I can easily do that :

http://i.imgur.com/TYXHstM.png

http://i.imgur.com/lhK27Le.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/FpCdY4v.jpg

Other formations are possible : http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/showthread.php?23840-18-amp-21-ship-formations

[the_frog]

... kendras, you do not need multiple models to create such a formation; one single model, with multiple instances, is enough.

Have a look into the Seafort files done by Jeff, or into the ship models I did. All the files contain repeated instances of individual 3D models.

Cheers

[Kendras]

... kendras, you do not need multiple models to create such a formation; one single model, with multiple instances, is enough.

Have a look into the Seafort files done by Jeff, or into the ship models I did. All the files contain repeated instances of individual 3D models.

Cheers

Yes, that's exactly what I want to do : repeated instances of individual and simple 3D models.

:salute:

[gap]

Hi again Kendras, nice idea :D

reducing GWX's B-17 model to little more than a silhouette shouldn't pose many problems. The same for tweaking its texture :up:

I have some doubts about your idea of merging an entire squadron into a single air unit though, as this may lead to some weird visual effects giving up the trick when the "super-unit" is going to turn and/or climb around its virtual center or mass. Moreover, you might need to keep wings and rudders separate from the fuselage, as the unit_Airplane controller points to them, and I am not sure what could happen if the relative fields are left blank, or made to point to dummy bones on the model. :hmm2:

Last: how do you think that 20 identical models rendered at once can hang up the game? Sure, reducing model's complexity can help to some degree, but personally I think the contrail particles have a bigger impact on FPS than the rendering of the model itself. Maybe you should consider reducing the number of particles too, though I must agree that the current effect looks very nice :)

By the way, found this picture on the web:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0a/Large_formation_of_Boeing_B-17Fs_of_the_92nd_Bomb_Group.jpg/1024px-Large_formation_of_Boeing_B-17Fs_of_the_92nd_Bomb_Group.jpg

The caption reads: Large formation of Boeing B-17Fs of the 92nd Bomb Group flying over Germany, 1943 ca. :up:

[Kendras]

I have some doubts about your idea of merging an entire squadron into a single air unit though, as this may lead to some weird visual effects giving up the trick when the "super-unit" is going to turn and/or climb around its virtual center or mass.

Yes, I thought about that too. It won't be a problem, since the squadrons will fly always straight forward.

Moreover, you might need to keep wings and rudders separate from the fuselage, as the unit_Airplane controller points to them, and I am not sure what could happen if the relative fields are left blank, or made to point to dummy bones on the model.

Some air units have no independent 3D model for the wings.

Last: how do you think that 20 identical models rendered at once can hang up the game? Sure, reducing model's complexity can help to some degree, but personally I think the contrail particles have a bigger impact on FPS than the rendering of the model itself. Maybe you should consider reducing the number of particles too.

Tests are needed for sure. First, I will reduce number of smoke trails from 4 to 2 per bomber, no difference will be noticed at high altitude.

[Kendras]

Moreover, you might need to keep wings and rudders separate from the fuselage, as the unit_Airplane controller points to them, and I am not sure what could happen if the relative fields are left blank, or made to point to dummy bones on the model.

I think this doesn't prevent airplanes which don't have this kind of tweaks to fly and turn.

It just adds this : a wing can be destroyed. And if the zone relative to the wing is not destroyable, when its hitpoints are all destroyed the airplane falls in the water even if you don't see the wing destroyed.

[gap]

Yes, I thought about that too. It won't be a problem, since the squadrons will fly always straight forward.


Some air units have no independent 3D model for the wings.

I think this doesn't prevent airplanes which don't have this kind of tweaks to fly and turn.

It just adds this : a wing can be destroyed. And if the zone relative to the wing is not destroyable, when its hitpoints are all destroyed the airplane falls in the water even if you don't see the wing destroyed.

Okay. If, as it is likely, SH aircraft physics are ridicolusly simplified, your idea might work :D

First, I will reduce number of smoke trails from 4 to 2 per bomber, no difference will be noticed at high altitude.

:up:

[Kendras]

First try in S3D :

http://i.imgur.com/qliStw9.png

Let's see if this can fly now !

[Kendras]

CTD ! :har:

Mmmmhhhh ....... :hmmm:

[Jeff-Groves]

Take a look at the K-Ship in GWX.
It uses wings but they are hidden.

[Kendras]

Finished ! It's working fine !

I just have to add the particles generators.

[Jeff-Groves]

Nice!
Do a video!!

[Kendras]

There are 4 air units. They are very easy to place together (500 meters between them, and 200 meters in altitude from one to another). They are flying at low altitude (average of 2500 meters).


http://i.imgur.com/nYw0Uvp.png

http://i.imgur.com/8D6RCYb.png

http://i.imgur.com/s4LbJdC.png

http://i.imgur.com/zaJoqDV.png

[Kendras]

@ Gap : I think it's not necessary to simplify the 3D model, the game is still smooth. I have been able to create a complete model and a reworked texture. So, no need for a simplified model and new textures anymore.

[Kendras]

OK. I've added some smoke trails to some B17s (not to all, else the game is too much slowed down), and created a brand new sound for these huge formations of bombers.

The effect is good. I've tried with 18 units (= 360 bombers).

Now, the same thing could be done with Ju88 and He111 ... and we have the Battle of Britain ! :03:

[gap]

@ Gap : I think it's not necessary to simplify the 3D model, the game is still smooth. I have been able to create a complete model and a reworked texture. So, no need for a simplified model and new textures anymore.

I was guessing so, but thank you for letting me know because I was about to start anyway with the stripping-down of the B-17 model :salute:

[Kendras]

I was guessing so, but thank you for letting me know because I was about to start anyway with the stripping-down of the B-17 model :salute:

Thank you to be so helpful ! I finally managed to help myself ... :03:

Now, I have to remap the files, since this squadron is replacing the lonely B17 unit. :lol:

[gap]

Thank you to be so helpful !

Not in this case :O:

[Kendras]

Not in this case :O:

I wanted to say "so prompt in helping others" ! :)

Today, I've improved the smoke trail effect and reduced the number of particles by more than 3 times. All B17s have smoke trails now.

http://i.imgur.com/EE25IzA.png

[Anvar1061]

And where ESCORT FIGHTER?

[gap]

I wanted to say "so prompt in helping others" ! :)

My pleasure :salute:


Today, I've improved the smoke trail effect and reduced the number of particles by more than 3 times. All B17s have smoke trails now.

Very nice! :yeah:
If you ask me, the one tweak I would propose, is making the distal end of each trail thinner and/or lesser opaque

[gap]

And where planes fighter outposts?

Do you mean Mustang escorts? :03:

[Kendras]

If you ask me, the one tweak I would propose, is making the distal end of each trail thinner and/or lesser opaque

No problem.

About the escort, I have to find documents to learn how Mustangs were flying together, and beside the bombers. :hmmm:

[Jeff-Groves]

Now you know you'll have to have "The Red Tails" done correctly don't you?
:D

[gap]

Now you know you'll have to have "The Red Tails" done correctly don't you?
:D

I have an African-American aircrew in one of my old HD's, dating back to when I was working on JU_88's B-25 model :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Airmen

[Kendras]

I have an African-American aircrew in one of my old HD's, dating back to when I was working on JU_88's B-25 model :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Airmen

Hey ! That's a good idea ! :yep:

If you ask me, the one tweak I would propose, is making the distal end of each trail thinner and/or lesser opaque

Well, after testings, it seems impossible to reduce opacity in one particle's life ... :hmmm:

Now you know you'll have to have "The Red Tails" done correctly don't you?:D

The tails are not red, but why not ? :)

[Jeff-Groves]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Airmen

The Red Tails.
:03:

[gap]

Hey ! That's a good idea ! :yep:

I don't think pilots will be visible from the sea level, but le me check my HD for my rendition of the Tuskegee Airmen :D

Well, after testings, it seems impossible to reduce opacity in one particle's life ... :hmmm:

From my experience with SH5 particle generators, changing particles overlife opacity should be possible, but maybe I don't remember correctly, or this feature is not in SHIII. I will check that too :salute:

[Kendras]

From my experience with SH5 particle generators, changing particles overlife opacity should be possible, but maybe I don't remember correctly, or this feature is not in SHIII. I will check that too :salute:

Yes, this is what I've done, but it doesn't work in-game. I will post screenshots with the values in the .dat file compared to what is in game.

I encountered the same problem with overlife values for the weight parameter ....

[gap]

Yes, this is what I've done, but it doesn't work in-game. I will post screenshots with the values in the .dat file compared to what is in game.

Yep, let's have a look into those values. At times two brains are better than one :D :up:

[Kendras]

I've created all the different combat boxes. Have a look :


http://i.imgur.com/g6U9fiq.png

http://i.imgur.com/6ZKce2w.png

http://i.imgur.com/sG02XRF.png

http://i.imgur.com/J4NWYpo.png

http://i.imgur.com/FNL8FvP.png

http://i.imgur.com/6zGLUni.png

About the contrails, I've found the solution. It's better now.

[Kendras]

Now, I will try to add bombs to a small formation to see how it works ... :hmm2:

[Kendras]

Now, I will try to add bombs to a small formation to see how it works ... :hmm2:

bad ...

[Niume]

Why would you need to put bombs on B-17? They are still flying very high and there objective is strategic bombing not sub hunting so whats the point of putting bombs in them?

[Kendras]

Why would you need to put bombs on B-17? They are still flying very high and there objective is strategic bombing not sub hunting so whats the point of putting bombs in them?

I've never intended to add bombs in those bombers flying in huge formations. This was just a test. :salute:

[Kendras]

http://i.imgur.com/GKQTDyv.png

[Jeff-Groves]

If they are flying so high? Why get to detailed?
I'd whack the polys as much as possible.
Cut the back off of crew and maybe even the tops of parts like the wings and such.

[Kendras]

If they are flying so high? Why get to detailed?
I'd whack the polys as much as possible.
Cut the back off of crew and maybe even the tops of parts like the wings and such.

This is just for the SINGLE unit, not for the "formation" units. ;)

For them, I've deleted crew, glasses, propellers, markings, guns, and bomb loadout.

[Kendras]

Now, the last part, and the less funny, is to script some air raids over Germany and occupied territories. I need some historical background, and also I have to learn how to add a scripted mission file into a campaign file .... :hmmm:

[the_frog]

... and also I have to learn how to add a scripted mission file into a campaign file .... :hmmm:

Mission Editor -> File -> Merge

[Kendras]

Mission Editor -> File -> Merge

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=228458

[iambecomelife]

Lovely as always! Since I love to drive people crazy with suggestions....maybe some B-24's? And their Halifax & Lancaster pals (late in the war, daylight British raids became more common).

I agree, having these overhead are a little detail that shows just how hopeless the war was for Germany after 1944. :up:

[Kendras]

Lovely as always! Since I love to drive people crazy with suggestions....maybe some B-24's? And their Halifax & Lancaster pals (late in the war, daylight British raids became more common).

Sure, but not for right now. I've discovered other B-17 formations that I would like to create.

I agree, having these overhead are a little detail that shows just how hopeless the war was for Germany after 1944. :up:

... indeed ! :wah:

[Kendras]

Last problem : the particles stay white at night, so the contrails are still visible. How could I correct this ?

Also in the .cfg file :

[Unit]
ClassName=B17_CB36
UnitType=301
MaxSpeed=250.0
MinSpeed=80.0
MaxRadius=1700
Length=20.9
Width=31.6
RenownAwarded=100

What does mean MaxRadius ?

I ask this because I would like the units to be visible from a greater distance than a single aircraft, and I wonder if this is the data that controlls this parameter ...

[Anvar1061]

What does mean MaxRadius ?

Max Radius - the distance at which he can perform combat operations with the possibility of returning to his aerodrome.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/images/smilies/Kaleun_Salute-1.gif

[Kendras]

Max Radius - the distance at which he can perform combat operations with the possibility of returning to his aerodrome.
:Kaleun_Salute:

Thank you ! :)

[Kendras]

The mod is ready, I just have to find how to correct the particles staying white at night. :hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm:

[Kendras]

I don't find the solution. But I'm sure that in a supermod (I don't remember which), the particles are dark during the night. For example, when a torpedo hits a ship, the water splash is dark, and not white.

Can you confirm guys ?

[Kendras]

Didn't find a working solution. Nevermind, download link available.

:Kaleun_Salute:

[Kendras]

Didn't find a working solution. Nevermind, download link available.

:Kaleun_Salute:

April fool ! :haha:

I DID solve the problem !

:Kaleun_Applaud:

[Anvar1061]

Wow!

http://s1.uploads.ru/t/qODF1.png (http://uploads.ru/qODF1.png)

http://s4.uploads.ru/t/ZjVXm.png (http://uploads.ru/ZjVXm.png)

http://se.uploads.ru/t/QpnAW.png (http://uploads.ru/QpnAW.png)
Aircraft without identification marks?
http://s6.uploads.ru/t/5qO2N.png (http://uploads.ru/5qO2N.png)
http://s3.uploads.ru/t/Hng4k.png (http://uploads.ru/Hng4k.png)
http://s6.uploads.ru/t/d3LWw.png (http://uploads.ru/d3LWw.png)

[propbeanie]

"Pay no attention to the little man behind the curtain!"... you're not supposed to get close enough to see that... :lol:

[Kendras]

May I ask the MODERATOR to change the prefix of this thread to "REL" ?

[urfisch]

great idea for immersion and great work! but b17 where not the majority. british b24, machesters and wellingtons where the most common bombers over germany ;) maybe you can add those too? and maybe fires in the cities of the harbours would be nice too!

[Kendras]

great idea for immersion and great work! but b17 where not the majority. british b24, machesters and wellingtons where the most common bombers over germany ;) maybe you can add those too?

Yes, I plan to do that too. But because my time is limited, I would need someone to do researches about how/where/when these aircrafts were employed, and how they flew together (formations).

and maybe fires in the cities of the harbours would be nice too!

That would be great ! :yep:

[Sailor Steve]

May I ask the MODERATOR to change the prefix of this thread to "REL" ?
Done! :sunny:

[urfisch]

i think its too much work, adding all real dates. i would just add random flights with a group size related to the year. in 1939 add 5 raids, in 1940 15 and so on. in 1945 it might be 50 raids. even that would be work enough! what do you think?

otherwise here is a list of attacks on the uboat harbours

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_pen#The_Allied_bombing_offensive

attacks on german cities

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_air_operations_during_the_Battle_of_Europe

[Kendras]

british b24, machesters and wellingtons were the most common bombers over germany

And you forgot the Lancaster (rather than the Manchester) ! :arrgh!:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/64/Avro_Lancaster_Mk_1_ExCC.jpg/250px-Avro_Lancaster_Mk_1_ExCC.jpg


i think its too much work, adding all real dates. i would just add random flights with a group size related to the year. in 1939 add 5 raids, in 1940 15 and so on. in 1945 it might be 50 raids. even that would be work enough! what do you think?

The things that have to be done precisely is the number of aircrafts and the exact routes of the raids over the seas. Dates are not so important.

[Doolar]

if I'm out in the Atlantic , where would I see High altitude B17"s. Even if I depart Lorant. I would assume there departing from England.

[Kendras]

if I'm out in the Atlantic , where would I see High altitude B17"s. Even if I depart Lorant. I would assume there departing from England.

You may see them above the North Sea. At the end of the war, French harbours are no more available.

:salute:

[Doolar]

Just saw a few screen shots on another thread. All I can say is WOW! Very cool, I just happen to be in port as we speak, going to add that Mod now. Thanx and keep up the great work.

[Kendras]

Just saw a few screen shots on another thread. All I can say is WOW! Very cool, I just happen to be in port as we speak, going to add that Mod now. Thanx and keep up the great work.

Enjoy ! :03:

[Harm]

With the permission of Kendra, I have adapted the B17s over Germany Mod for CCoM and LSH3 V15.

You can download it here. http://www.mediafire.com/file/271ail2k7d77dyr/Kendras_B17s_Formations_for_CCoM_11.1_and_LSH3_V15 .zip

[Kendras]

With the permission of Kendra, I have adapted the B17s over Germany Mod for CCoM and LSH3 V15.

You can download it here. http://www.mediafire.com/file/271ail2k7d77dyr/Kendras_B17s_Formations_for_CCoM_11.1_and_LSH3_V15 .zip

Good work !

:up:

My mod in CCoM / LSH3 v15 (screenshot by Harm) :

http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170419/mp3ax5f3.jpg (http://www.directupload.net/file/d/4696/mp3ax5f3_jpg.htm)

[Martin James]

Excellent mod, gotta have some of this. Cheers. Now all I have to do is figure out how to adapt campaign files...

[Kendras]

http://i.imgur.com/NoNaRt3.png