So i would like to make a submarine....

[JesterV2]

Hello everyone,

I've been a member of this amazing site for a couple of years now, and have played silent hunter 4 since 2014.

i love to play with modded submarines, and i would like to make one myself, and start small. i would like to get the balao class into 3dsmax and only change the tower. not alot.

I have experience with 3ds max for some years (i have been playing with 3d modeling programs since i was 12 years old) and photoshop.

Hopefully you guys could give me some tips about how to start doing this.

How do i import DAT files into 3dsmax? (well i assume the dat file is the model file since it is the largest)

Thanks in advance!

EDIT: Nevermind! i JUST found the topic where all of this is explained. i will post something if i have a question!

[Rockin Robbins]

Go! Jester, go! Can't wait to see what you come up with. I wish I had bitten the bullet and investigated 3D modeling.

I'll tell you what. Once you get your feet wet, there were modified fleet boats after the war called Guppies. These Guppies were boats that progressively changed the fleet boat hull design, through the Guppy I, Guppy II and Guppy III series until the American fleet boat outperformed the theoretical performance of the German Type XXI in every respect, faster, longer legs, less radar signature on snorkel. They were really radical looking boats.

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/Silent%20Hunter%204/45guppyiii_nyrt.jpg

That's one of the Guppy IIIs right there. Wouldn't it be great to have these in our game? I'm not saying "get to work" I'm trying to fire up your imagination and give you a stretch goal that would really add to the game.:D:D

[JesterV2]

are you reading my mind?
i wanted to change the tower to look like the guppy class submarines xD

anyway first question, when i load the model of the balao into 3ds max, alot of stuff is missing..... including the tower. how do i get that into 3dsmax?

[Rockin Robbins]

are you reading my mind?
i wanted to change the tower to look like the guppy class submarines xD

anyway first question, when i load the model of the balao into 3ds max, alot of stuff is missing..... including the tower. how do i get that into 3dsmax?
Since the conning towers are designed for upgrades on the same boat they are in a different file than the hull is. Unfortunately I don't have any experience with 3D modding SH4, so I can't give specific details.

[JesterV2]

Yeah that's what I thought... Well I'll try and look for them.

EDIT: Found 'em! in the objects folder

[CapnScurvy]

Jester, it's great to hear you're wanting to do some modeling. And, it looks like you're a quick learner with the game....Yes the Conning Towers are in the "Objects" folder.

I've done some modeling attempts with Blender (my "hobby" pocket book can't afford the 3Ds Max price tag). Since Blender works differently, there's always problems with getting models put into an .obj format so it can be imported back into the game. I understand 3Ds Max makes it easier. S3D has its limitations, and quirks too, which can be a stumbling block.

When you have the time :D......making 3D models of the American Medals (the medals that the stock game doesn't use) would be a benefit. The models go in the Captain's Award Box found in the Captain's Office, on the desk.

See, we already have a list for you to work on!! :salute:

Welcome to SubSim!

[JesterV2]

Oh boy what have i gotten myself into :o:03:

[CapnScurvy]

Oh boy what have i gotten myself into :o:03:

Yep, it's better to shut up rather than stand up sometimes!! :O:

[JesterV2]

https://s29.postimg.org/fgzlsjjvb/Untitled_2.jpg
well its not the conning tower of the GUPPY, but of the USS tench.
im going to try to get it into the game as the conning tower of the Balao.

not sure when because tomorrow and this weekend are a busy bunch of days.

[Rockin Robbins]

There was no submarine named the GUPPY. GUPPY was an acronym meaning a bunch of weirdly connected words...Greater Underwater Propulsion Power with a Y tacked on the end. It was a technology that was retrofitted into WWII fleet boats to bolster their awesomeness.

It mostly worked:
by Robert L. Harrison
4 September 2000
Greenfield, Indiana
http://www.diodon349.com/Stories/Story_Images/bar_blue.gif
Long before the advent of the hippie and the yuppie
There was a class of warship that was fondly called the Guppy.
Now the Guppy was a submarine, in case you didn't know,
Long and black and sleek she was, and always on the go.


In World War Two, the submarines were our first line of attack,
Many of them went out to sea and some did not come back,
Now the submariners knew this but still they went to war,
To defend their nation's freedom was what they were fighting for.


After World War Two had ended, when the Japs and Germans quit,
Someone thought the old subs should be streamlined just a bit,
So they re-designed the old boats and named them GUPPY Class
With snorkels, better batt'ries and a hull to make 'em fast.


They went to sea both north and south from the East to setting sun,
They never knew when night was o'er and daytime had begun.
Theirs was a life of silence and the darkness of the deep,
Sometimes their only pleasure were a few hours of blessed sleep.


They ploughed the seas from Pole to Pole in defense of freedom's goals,
From Pearl Harbor, and Yokosuka to the faroff Iceland shoals,
To spy on Soviet submarines and other ships of war
Was the job of these brave lads who roamed the ocean floor.


They ran patrols from Greenland to the shores of Timbuktu
The GIUK GAP and MED RUN were just nothing for a crew
of Guppy sailors who thought the NORTHERN RUN okay,
Then take shore leave in Norfolk for another night of play.


How many Guppies were there? Far more than I could name.
And each has earned an honored place in the Guppy Hall of Fame.
They fought the war with Soviets in secrecy and guile
Until the foe gave up the fight, which made it all worth while.


Now they're gone, as all ships go when their tour of duty's o'er,
Brave Guppies, stalwart warriors, they roam the seas no more,
They've gone to graves far out at sea and this should be their lot,
Gone from the sight of those they served but not to be forgot.

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/Silent%20Hunter%204/4guppyiiisternview.jpg

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/Silent%20Hunter%204/Guppy_boats%20late_1960s_zpszuhgkuk0.jpg

[JesterV2]

BOOM
http://s24.postimg.org/v92ca95ph/DSC_0540.jpg
That wasnt actually that hard, i will work on the uv mapping and the quality of the model, and i might have something to upload!

Now how do i get rid of/move all of this?
http://s23.postimg.org/wa3n6dl57/DSC_0541.jpg

i had to make photos of the game, screenshots crashed my pc :/

[Rockin Robbins]

Very nice! I think you have a Guppy I there.

[JesterV2]

I made a list of things i need to know:

-how do i move deckwatch/crewmembers.
-how do i remove the structure on top of the conning tower.
-how do i move the tbt and all the instruments on the tower.
how do i move the lookout point within the conning tower.
-how do i move/remove aa mounts.
-how do i move the periscope so it reaches a sufficient distance from the conning tower.
-how do i change the periscope depth value.

the rest of the basic modeling and texturing is pretty clear to me, ive done it before.

[CapnScurvy]

I'm assuming you're familiar with Silent 3ditor found HERE (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=119571).

Loading the particular Conning Tower .dat file into S3D, you'll see the attached models/textures found within the .dat file. It will contain the gun mounts....Slot_A01, Slot_A02 for the Anti Aircraft guns. Actually, just open the Model in the right hand pane of S3D, left click the "camera icon" along the top menu group to center the model. Then zoom in with the mouse wheel to get a better look. Use the arrow keys to circle around, or mouse drag over the model. By clicking on the various small dots that show up on the model, it will highlight the various parts within the "Node:" list (in the left hand pane).

To pull the periscopes up a bit, Find the periscope Node, usually a child node found under the parent "Periscope Mount" heading. The "cfg_O02" is usually the Attack Periscope. The cfg_ O03 is the Observation scope. Use the "Position" Coordinates along the top of the right hand pane to reposition the different modeled objects. Or, just delete the Node in question if you don't want to use it at all.

The crew are usually found with the Node name of "WCS_xx_dummy". The xx are for the different men involved. You move them with their individual coordinates.

See what you've done, by loading the .dat file into a JSGME compatible mod of your making. Call the main folder "My Tower"...or whatever, within it make a new folder called "Data", within it another called "Objects", put your .xxxxx.dat folder there. Load through JSGME into the stock game your mod. Start the game.

[JesterV2]

wow is it that simple?

ill try it, thanks!

[CapnScurvy]

To change the subs periscope depth, open the subs Data/Submarine/USS_xxxx folder. Within it you'll find the USS_xxxx.cfg file. Open it with Notepad, or some equal text editor. The "PeriscopeDepth=" parameter, read in meters, is there.

You may want to change some other things about your new sub. This time find the particular sub you're working on within the Data/Submarine/USS_xxxx folder. Here the .dat file (as you've found out) holds the subs hull model. What your looking for is the .sim file of the sub. Have S3D open it, you'll find lots of parameters there to fool with.

[JesterV2]

Progress
added some placeholder skin, just to check that the uvw works and the dds file is correct.
Moved the radar and periscopes.
removed aamounts.
http://s30.postimg.org/c3xpqcd8x/DSC_0542.jpg

i started modeling the actual conning tower in the mean time, this one will have alot more detail.
https://s24.postimg.org/mtyeqte9x/conning.jpg

[Rockin Robbins]

Very nice! Looks great.:up:

[JesterV2]

More progress!

http://s24.postimg.org/ixnz775gl/DSC_0543.jpg

does anyone know how to get rid of this weird smoothing?

http://s29.postimg.org/7qa80mhaf/DSC_0544.jpg

[CapnScurvy]

More progress!

http://s24.postimg.org/ixnz775gl/DSC_0543.jpg

does anyone know how to get rid of this weird smoothing?

http://s29.postimg.org/7qa80mhaf/DSC_0544.jpg

You're talking about the lighter grey towards the top of the conning tower, compared to the darker lower part?

I'm not sure.

Your're still taking pictures with your phone? Those lines are from your monitor aren't they?

I use Gadwin Print Screen (http://download.cnet.com/Gadwin-PrintScreen/3000-2094_4-10123018.html) to take an image of my computer screen. Works well and its free.

[JesterV2]

Fixed the screen capturing problem!
added ambient occlusion and specular map, looks a little bit better but still that ugly smoothing....
https://s23.postimg.org/dgg9vgfln/sh4_2017_01_06_16_18_23_65.jpg
its especially bad on the top...
https://s23.postimg.org/k0hl4huxn/sh4_2017_01_06_16_21_13_53.jpg

[CapnScurvy]

Those images and your work look great to me!!

As we used to say........"Close enough for government work"!!

[propbeanie]

Are you wanting it to look more like the 3Dmax model in your #17 post above?

Or more like
http://navsource.org/archives/08/486/0848635.jpg

... there are a LOT of sail variations out there... :o

[JesterV2]

well the conning tower i made is based on the USS Requin

[Rockin Robbins]

Those images and your work look great to me!!

As we used to say........"Close enough for government work"!!
Compared to our present Guppy sails, I'd say this is fine work!. A little teeaking and you're golden.

[JesterV2]

i found out what the smoothing problem is! the game really doesnt like it if you grab edges and drag them around, stretching the polygons.....

[Rockin Robbins]

Somehow I knew you'd fix that. Now the hull modifications will be a bit more complex, but probably easier because the smoothing will mostly work in your favor.

[JesterV2]

allright....
i made another conning tower for the 1944 Balao, in the pictures you can see the before and after i've dealt with the smoothing.
i also baked the textures and i will have a major re-do of the Requin tower aswell.

Before:
https://s23.postimg.org/piozawegb/sh4_2017_01_07_12_38_04_55.jpg
https://s29.postimg.org/dip2xee6f/sh4_2017_01_07_12_38_14_26.jpg
After:
https://s29.postimg.org/798slt3lj/sh4_2017_01_07_16_49_33_78.jpg
https://s27.postimg.org/qlhmtmms3/sh4_2017_01_07_16_49_42_26.jpg

[JesterV2]

Ready to Upload? :Kaleun_Salute:

https://s29.postimg.org/pmzr0l48n/sh4_2017_01_08_12_31_30_80.jpg

https://s24.postimg.org/cis5wla8l/sh4_2017_01_08_12_31_42_99.jpg

[Delanski]

Whoa dude that looks pretty sweet!
You're either there or almost there. I noticed is the weathering effect comes to a sudden stop half way of the tower where as in post #21 it looks on point. Other than that it looks fantastic. It's absolutely up to you whether it's ready to go.

[JesterV2]

Good point Delanski!
i'll fix it right away

[Rockin Robbins]

The number looks like text just projected in front of the conning tower too. It too should look weathered and part of the surface. You're 95% to a fantastic addition to our game, making a really good Guppy I.

Now some research is necessary to get the performance parameters for a Guppy I.

[JesterV2]

well i just searched and many GUPPY I's are refitted ww2 Submarines, and the SS Requin in particular has the same performance as the balao in game.

i'll try to fix the number!

EDIT: nevermind! The performance I looked up are for the guppy boats BEFORE the conversion

After the conversion the submerged speed and range was better, but nowhere is mentioned the exact speeds or ranges of the GUPPY conversion.
I will comb trough the Internet some more

[Delanski]

Would this be of any help? Wiki mentions all the boats converted and their pages actually shows the performance with the GUPPY upgrades.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Underwater_Propulsion_Power_Program#GUPPY_ I_boats

[J0313]

well i just searched and many GUPPY I's are refitted ww2 Submarines, and the SS Requin in particular has the same performance as the balao in game.

i'll try to fix the number!

EDIT: nevermind! The performance I looked up are for the guppy boats BEFORE the conversion

After the conversion the submerged speed and range was better, but nowhere is mentioned the exact speeds or ranges of the GUPPY conversion.
I will comb trough the Internet some more

All the GUPPY conversions were WWII Fleetboats. Also there were 3 different Sails manufactured by the 2 different ship builders involved in the program. Portsmouth and Electric Boat. The 3rd sail is called a North Atlantic Sail. They stopped calling them conning towers sometime during the program. The 2 sails your showing are the North Atlantic sail and the Electric Boat sail.

[JesterV2]

thanks for the info guys :salute:

[JesterV2]

She is almost done!

I completely redid the hull textures, to more closely represent the current paintjob of the USS Requin.
i also removed the deckgun and streamlined the hull by removing fences.

https://s23.postimg.org/x2bhvjg0b/sh4_2017_01_08_19_38_07_80.jpg

[J0313]

Will there be a snorkel?

[JesterV2]

well if someone is willing to explain to me how i'm supposed to do that, then yes :up:

[J0313]

well if someone is willing to explain to me how i'm supposed to do that, then yes :up:

Well I am sure that someone in this forum could help you pull it off. That would really be cool.

[propbeanie]

lurker hlb3 had one in Operation Monsun (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=134922), but there were some issues with it.

"...
3.When using the snorkel on a U-boat, CO2 will continue to build up and you will have to surface from time to time to refresh your oxygen supply. Also SH4 does not use the "submerged range" from the .sim file, there fore the Type XXI/XXIII historical underwater range can not be correctly generated.
..."

I haven't a clue if anyone ever tried to get any further with it in SH4... There is that "Unlimited air" thingie in the play settings...

Someone who might be able to help would be TheDarkWraith, who did one for SH5 Uboat Snorkel (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=186449)

I haven't played OM in a while myself, and have never gotten further than trying to fall down the ladder in SH5, so I haven't a clue as to what you can do, other than try...

[JesterV2]

Well a snorkel might be something for the future then as I'm still learning the basics of modding, let's first focus on the tasks at hand.

I'm thinking of creating a WIP topic tomorrow, as I have focused my attention to one specific ship, and am planning on uploading it in the future.

[Rockin Robbins]

Looking really great! USS Requin Guppy I mod is fully under construction and the tough stuff done. Poof! You're a modder!:D:up::D

Love the siggy pic too.

[JesterV2]

Thanks mate!
glad to be one of you! :Kaleun_Salute:

[ETR3(SS)]

There's some good photographic research material on this site. I used it quite frequently when working on the 688, Ohio, and other boats that I didn't release.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/04idx.htm

[JesterV2]

ok guys, only a couple of things need to happen, including something i struggle with right now.

until this point, all i have been doing is replacing the 3d model of the balao, ultimately i want this ship to be a standalone ship. i have gotten far enough to make it show up seperately in the submarine class list, but when i press start i get a crash to desktop.

i would like to know which files i have to edit to get this submarine to work and what lines i have to add or remove to make this happen.

Thanks in advance for anyone willing to help me!

[CapnScurvy]

Not knowing exactly what you've done with the .dat file for both the conning tower, and the .dat file for the hull....your first thing to do is make sure your ID's within these files are different from any others in-game. For instance, if your using the Balao .dat file for the hull.......have S3D change every node ID to something different. Including the child nodes within the parent node groups.

This in-turn will cause you to make changes to your other submarine files....the .sim, .val, .dsd etc. files that use the .dat ID's as "Parent" Id's within their files. These new files should mirror the other Data/Submarine/NSS_xxxxx/folder files that are listed, but with the correct connections between the Parent to Child ID's.

If you already know this then your on your way.

Once the subs model files are in order, your next thing to do is create a new sub entry in the nationality of your choosing. I'm suspecting your new sub is American so you need to add a new entry in the Data/Roster/American/Submarine folder that resembles the others within the folder....but with the information that goes with your new sub.

You'll also need to add your sub to the Data/Roster/Names.cfg file too, under the "Submarine" section.

Getting all these pieces together will take some knowledge of what the stock game did with their entries. So, a bit of study is in order to understand what does what and why.

This should give you a start.

[JesterV2]

Thanks captain!
I'll try to get it working as soon as I get home!

[JesterV2]

so i remapped all the ids, with the same base id.

im still trying to wrap my head around this.
how do i tell the game what conning tower i want to use? once again the conning tower i made replaces the balao tower, so i have to rename it. that means that somewhere (UPC file maybe?) is stated what conning tower is used.

[CapnScurvy]

so i remapped all the ids, with the same base id.

im still trying to wrap my head around this.
how do i tell the game what conning tower i want to use? once again the conning tower i made replaces the balao tower, so i have to rename it. that means that somewhere (UPC file maybe?) is stated what conning tower is used.

I'm not at home now to look it up, but yes, the towers are all in a .upc file. Seems to me the folder UPCData/UnitPartsData will have the towers. While you're there, look in the specific NSS_Balao.upc file to make a copy for your new boat, adding/changing the contents to fit your requirements. Of course there's another .upc file found in the Submarine/NSS_Balao/ folder that needs to coincide its contents with the others. Lots of places to make things go wrong.

[JesterV2]

This is definitely not my cup of tea, My goodness this is confusing stuff :06::06::06:
i might just stick to changing the name, and mentioning the fact that this mod replaces the Balao.
maybe leaving this task up to a third party?

[ETR3(SS)]

I have a blank slate that I used for creating new units, I can upload that later to give you something to start with. Also there's a tutorial around here somewhere about adding new units to the game. Very useful.

[JesterV2]

i would appreciate it mate!

[ETR3(SS)]

Here's the link to the new thread. I'm off to work now so it will be early tomorrow before I can upload that template.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=165965

[ETR3(SS)]

Download link to the template. Between this and the tutorial I linked you should be in good shape.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=5115

[JesterV2]

Thank you very much sir!
o7

[CapnScurvy]

Thank you ETR3(SS) for getting into the mix. I knew someone smarter than me would help with this discussion!! I know just enough to get myself into trouble.:har:

[Rockin Robbins]

I have a blank slate that I used for creating new units, I can upload that later to give you something to start with. Also there's a tutorial around here somewhere about adding new units to the game. Very useful.
See, I TOLD you I was forgetting somebody! Thanks for helping him, ETR!

[JesterV2]

I cannot thank you guys enough for the help! At this rate, I bet I can upload the mod before the end of the week. And I might even start another submarine project after that, but we'll see ;)

[JesterV2]

I DID IT GUYS
I will upload tonight!
so freaking happy right now!

[ETR3(SS)]

Thank you ETR3(SS) for getting into the mix. I knew someone smarter than me would help with this discussion!! I know just enough to get myself into trouble.:har:

See, I TOLD you I was forgetting somebody! Thanks for helping him, ETR! Just giving back to the community. :shucks:

I cannot thank you guys enough for the help! At this rate, I bet I can upload the mod before the end of the week. And I might even start another submarine project after that, but we'll see ;)If you feel like continuing, I've got a few unfinished projects you could take over.