Wolfpack Campaign: A journey through the U-boat War

[Onkel Neal]

While the guys work on the game models and code, I'm preparing an outline for the campaign model. I'm going to post here and lay out some ideas, and since many of your are U-boat experts, I invite you to share your thoughts.

[Onkel Neal]

Our plan for the game is to have three modes of play: skirmish, campaign, and player vs player. Skirmish and campaign are the first objectives, then we will develop a player vs player model that will make sense and provide compelling and engaging MP gameplay. We will come back to PvP at a later date.

Skirmish
Skirmish is merely an instant action convoy/war patrol encounter. Most U-boat missions are essentially: Locate convoy, Intercept convoy, Attack convoy, Evade escorts (re-engage if possible). This is what Doenitz tasked his U-boats with and this is what they sought. In real life, assembling a group of U-boats and locating a convoy could take weeks, and often a U-boat commander would never find a battle. Obviously, this would not work for a simulation, no one wants to simulate the boredom and frustration of empty seas.:doh: And when you are talking cooperatively manned subs, by four dudes in real life, even less so. So, the plan is to start a skirmish mission off with the enemy within reasonable range, so the players can possibly intercept and engage within 30 minutes to an hour. It is important to note that we intend to have the missions dynamically generated, so no matter how many times you play a skirmish mission, the inclusion, placement, and course of the enemy will vary. Sometimes you will start off close and in favorable position, sometimes you will have to establish contact and attempt to obtain a favorable firing position without being detected.

So, whenever you want to play a quick game with your friends, you can select a convoy encounter, warship encounter, or random encounter and test your mettle as a U-boat crew.

Campaign
Our campaign is what this thread is about. I want to plan a campaign where you and three of your friends can set up a crew (like a clan in an RPG) in our Steam section and start a career from 1939 August until 1945 June. The missions will historically mirror the real U-boat war like the chapters of a book. I am researching all the phases of the war in order to include as many of the iconic battles and missions as possible. So, feel free to list scenarios and missions with their corresponding dates and locations that you think would make great campaign missions. We are still in the planning phase. Below are some that I have on my list:

Training: U-boat school (can be skipped). A mission in the harbor where you get a chance to practice TDC and torpedo shots with illuminated dummy torpedoes against friendly tugs and coastal ships. Your sonar guy will get some training on how the sonar, radio and enigma works, and your chief will get practice diving the boat, holding at PD, and surfacing.

1939: “My God! So it’s war with England again!” War begins, missions in the North Sea and around the British Isles. You will encounter warships, neutrals, and single cargo ships. You may encounter passenger ships and it will be your task to ID them and determine if you are within orders to sink them. If you sink an Athenia, you and your crew may be subject to disciplinary actions. As the year progresses, you will encounter more British warships trying to enforce a blockade, including RN aircraft carriers (fat juicy targets). You may receive orders to penetrate an enemy harbor, such as Scapa Flow (good luck with that!).

1940: Happy Times. You sight your first convoy. British ships have no radar so your surface raiding tactics at night will bring you glory, as long as you correctly gauge how closely you can approach ships. Weather and moon conditions will have an impact. You may experience occasional torpedo failures, you better have BdU look into it. You may be tasked with taking part in Operation Weserübung, the invasion of Norway, so watch out for waters heavily infested with escorts. After the fall of France, you may be based out of the French port. The Happy Times begin. Your U-boat is a force to be feared as you sink ships by the ton :03: Just be sure not to sink an American, even though they may be trying to sink you.

1941: Happy Times continue, but in March your radioman begins to get an alarming number of radio message from other U-boats that are sinking. Escorts get smarter. First tactical radar sets begin showing up. Operation Bismarck. You get your first taste of wolfpack tactics! Also, your first encounter with a Q-ship. Patrols in the mid Atlantic where Allied aircraft cannot follow.

1942: America in the war, commence Operation Drumbeat. War on tankers. Happy Times are back with easy pickings off the eastern coast of the USA. Refueling operations with Milche Cows. Transit across the Bay of Biscay becomes more hazardous with the unexpected appearance of Wellington bombers and other Allied aircraft equipped with radar and Leigh lights. Metox detectors are quickly installed in all boats. America's defenses tighten up, and patrol zones return to the middle Atlantic. Patrol area shifted to attack Allied landing in North Africa.

1943: Climax. The greatest convoy battles take place with large wolfpacks. Allied radar improves with deadly results for U-boats. Escort hunter/killer groups. Black May. Wanze replaces Metox. Patrols redirected to Freetown and the east coast of Brazil. BOLDs are introduced. Flak boats. Mission to the Med.

1944: Desperation. FAT and GNAT torpedoes, NAXOS are issued to your boat. Snorkel added to your boat. Allied defenses spell the end of the war for U-boats. Escort carriers hound wolfpacks. Orders to attack Allied landing ships in English Channel. Base of operations moved to Norway.

1945: Defeat. Radar installed on your boat. Secret mission. Promise of a new Type XXI electro-boat. Allied homing torpedoes. Shortages. Last patrol.







________________________________________
More coming

[PL_Andrev]

(...)we will develop a player vs player model that will make sense and provide compelling and engaging MP gameplay. We will come back to PvP at a later date.
What does PvP mean?

multiple subs hunt ships at convoy,
multiple subs hunt himself
convoy battle: DD team vs SUB team
other (?)

[THE_MASK]

Quoted from Australian newspaper articles .
Sat 19th Dec 1942
Berlin radio now claims that Germany now has uboat tankers .
Uboat tanker mission .
Maybe a version of a Uboat tanker could be modelled .
How fun would it be for 4 people trying to refuel other uboats that turn up ?
Currents modelled , maintain proximity with other uboat via the engine station .
Use radio operator to communicate with other Uboat .
2 people on deck to operate the fuel boom thing .
OK , you mentioned in another thread fuel wont be an issue . What about some players can choose to play in 1 sub and a coop player can choose a milk cow . The milk cow has torps that can be loaded from the milk cow to any other uboat if torp slots are available . The torps are loaded via a boom crane . The boom replaces the deck gun . Maybe a milk cow is just a uboat that has the deck gun replaced by the boom crane . Would be fun to load torps onto another sub . For me a support role would be interesting .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JKVaxfgX_0

Wed 8th August 1945
Moscow Red Star revealed that a German submarine shelled Red Army posts on Rugen island .
Reported that many small German vessels are still hiding in the Baltic sea .
After shelling a vessel they disappeared into the fog .
Use fog patches as cover in a hit and run mission in the Baltic in 1945 .

Some sort of iceberg run like what was portrayed in SH3 trailer just for fun .

[Chromatix]

Does this confirm that the game will fundamentally be mission-based, rather than open-world patrols?

[PL_Andrev]

Yeap, no open world.
To avoid boring time of "patrol time" for non-captain players the campaign is planned as set of scenarios. Each scenario will be randomly generated mission based at scenario conditions (available weapons, escort efficiency, wolfpack activity, "surprises" like Q-boats or HK groups).

It looks not so good in first view, but randomly generated missions have sense here (generally at Silent Hunter you met the contact and engine randomly decides what kind of ship / convoy it was). Not sure what happened if "captain" decides to avoid targets / escape mission.
____________________

Proposed missions:
All the best scenarios were described by Neal.
Hope the night surface attack will be more easy / safe / usefull than submerged attack how it is at Silent Hunter series...

[tonyj]

For open world could you not set a course, real life players go about their real daily routine, with automated crew picking up hydrophone/radar/radio contacts and then notify all real players via email/sms when contact made. The boat then shadows automatically from safe distance, players agree to come online at certain time to take over controls and then treat as normal scenario. Would be pretty exciting to know your boat is traveling in real time and not knowing what/when you would encounter the enemy. Also you can retreat and back into automated mode. Something like that anyway.

[Penguin]

If you sink an Athenia, you and your crew may be subject to disciplinary actions.

This brings me to the idea of some morale- or ethics-based decisions, similar to This War Of Mine.
It doesn't have to be as dramatic as civilian-saving missions inspired by the Laconia, but also smaller stuff, such as:
- Do you want to boost crew morale by playing enemy music while also risking to be scoulded by upper command?
- Do you want to risk to search an abandoned enemy ship for intelligence or even something trivial as fresh food? The latter could also boost crew morale, the former give you a better standing with your superiors, maybe resulting in better equipment or a more experienced crew-
- An enemy plane is sighted, you plan for a crash dive, however your rookie crewmember somehow is tangeled up his harness in the winter garden...

I think this could be a quite interesting addition and an additional immersion factor, especially in multiplayer, when 4 folks have to agree to a decision.

[Onkel Neal]

Yeap, no open world.
To avoid boring time of "patrol time" for non-captain players the campaign is planned as set of scenarios. Each scenario will be randomly generated mission based at scenario conditions (available weapons, escort efficiency, wolfpack activity, "surprises" like Q-boats or HK groups).

It looks not so good in first view, but randomly generated missions have sense here (generally at Silent Hunter you met the contact and engine randomly decides what kind of ship / convoy it was). Not sure what happened if "captain" decides to avoid targets / escape mission.
____________________

Proposed missionsHope the night surface attack will be more easy / safe / usefull than submerged attack how it is at Silent Hunter series...

Agreed, the night surface attack is a critical tactical element of U-boat warfare. In the early part of the war before British ships had good radar, the Aces would slip into a convoy on the surface and wreak havoc. Kretscmher was known for this, as was Mohr and others. The trick is to factor in weather, night, and distance into the detection model. I propose that you will have success in early war surface night attacks, but it will always be risky, because just like the real men who did this, you will never know for sure when you will be detected. And if you are detected 2000m away from a hard charging destroyer, you will have problems. In our game, with 4 players, where 3 of them are at the mercy of one player's command decisions...you see where there could be tension? It won't be a simple feat for 4 players to successfully complete a long historical campaign. :D

I am definitely thinking of adding an Iron Man option where if your crew is sunk, the campaign will end and you will only be able to start with a fresh campaign.:rock:


For open world could you not set a course, real life players go about their real daily routine, with automated crew picking up hydrophone/radar/radio contacts and then notify all real players via email/sms when contact made. The boat then shadows automatically from safe distance, players agree to come online at certain time to take over controls and then treat as normal scenario. Would be pretty exciting to know your boat is traveling in real time and not knowing what/when you would encounter the enemy. Also you can retreat and back into automated mode. Something like that anyway.

That's a very exciting concept.:yeah: I like it, but it is too ambitious for our small team. Who knows, if this game is a smash success, I would love to shoot for the stars with a project like this :yep:



This brings me to the idea of some morale- or ethics-based decisions, similar to This War Of Mine.
It doesn't have to be as dramatic as civilian-saving missions inspired by the Laconia, but also smaller stuff, such as:
- Do you want to boost crew morale by playing enemy music while also risking to be scoulded by upper command?
- Do you want to risk to search an abandoned enemy ship for intelligence or even something trivial as fresh food? The latter could also boost crew morale, the former give you a better standing with your superiors, maybe resulting in better equipment or a more experienced crew-
- An enemy plane is sighted, you plan for a crash dive, however your rookie crewmember somehow is tangeled up his harness in the winter garden...

I think this could be a quite interesting addition and an additional immersion factor, especially in multiplayer, when 4 folks have to agree to a decision.

Hey, have you been peeking in my game journal? :arrgh!:

Of course, with 4 human players, the radio player could put on a record, and his Captain may decide that is inappropriate, but who knows if that will affect morale of the real guys.... This War of Mine (great game, btw) has AI characters who are affected by events and actions. Our game is guys like you and me.

One thing I am sure that will affect morale of the real human players, is missions that are scripted, where everything happens the same way--same ships appear in the same place, going the same speed and course...I really want to eliminate that morale killer. Oscar assures me he can add a great deal of variability to ship placement, inclusion, and orders. That is really exciting. When you replay a mission, you will be in the same time period and the tech boundaries will remain the same (of course), but you will still be sailing into the unknown. You will have a reasonable chance of engaging the enemy (it will vary), but you will still need to locate him, determine what he is (convoy, single merchant, hunter/killer group, ???) and plot a smart intercept course to set up a firing solution.

Hey, don't laugh but we did decide that when the boat crash dives, the Captain MUST close the conning tower hatch or the boat will flood.

[Aktungbby]

Hey, don't laugh but we did decide that when the boat crash dives, the Captain MUST close the conning tower hatch or the boat will flood. OH I wonder where that came from!:O: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2421625#post2421625 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2421625#post2421625) 56. The Commander is personally responsible for opening and closing the conning tower hatch. After opening or closing the Commander notifies the boat: Commander: "Conning tower hatch is open or closed". http://www.uboatarchive.net/Diving/DivingRegulations.htm (http://www.uboatarchive.net/Diving/DivingRegulations.htm)

[PL_Andrev]

Hey, don't laugh but we did decide that when the boat crash dives, the Captain MUST close the conning tower hatch or the boat will flood.
The closing hatch is good idea, but l'm not sure 'captain responsibily' is the best idea.
What happened if someone else is on the deck? What happened when mission is failed due engineer did not dive on time (because hatch was still opened)?

The better idea is flooding effect when open hatch is under water level (after that sub cannot be easy trimmed due additional weight of water inside) plus each player on the deck when sub is diving is kicked-off from mission.

[Sailor Steve]

A simple fact on the hatch question: What the Americans called the "Christmas Tree", due to US lights being red and green. On U-boats the portal lights are red and white, but the point is that there is a light for the conning tower hatch, as well as engine intake ports and some others, and the LI (Chief) will not give the order to dive until all the lights are white.

The Watch Duty Officer will always be the last man down, and he will close the hatch behind him. If the captain is on the bridge then he will take that responsibility.

One of the problems with SH5 was the requirement for the player to go down the hatch manually and close it behind him, which didn't always work properly. My solution for this would be a simple visual routine. When you click "Dive" or "Crash Dive" you would see the watch crew go down the hatch, then see yourself go down and see the hatch close behind you. No extra tasks to do what you would do automatically.

[cmdr750]

isn`t it a better idea to implement a "big campaign" rather than separated missions and work with time compression ?

so, you can have relatively quick action with your buddies but you can also have these strategic decissions like "where are the convoy routes, where are the air gaps, where can i go with my fuel, ect..."

that also will solve the problems with the consumables like battery and O2, mentionted in the other threat. You can make them realistic, but do not have to wait or have some "boring" time.

[THE_MASK]

What about enemy ships have some point on them that you can retrieve documents/ammo etc . As first person if the engine and lookout can manoeuvre your sub close to the enemy boat/sub you can walk over to the enemy boat/sub . From there you can scout the enemy boat/sub for the documents/ammo . You can radio in the documents and that will give you more intelligence . Once you are off the sub you should be able to control the enemy boat/sub and use that to help your teammates . Maybe 2 players want to board another ship/sub etc . Battlefield etc works on this principle . Why not this game .

[keysersoze]

I am researching all the phases of the war in order to include as many of the iconic battles and missions as possible. So, feel free to list scenarios and missions with their corresponding dates and locations that you think would make great campaign missions.


In case this is of some assistance, here is a spreadsheet I put together with 111 "special missions" U-boats conducted throughout the war. They might add some real flavor to the game.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DWisYexFIEQiC5yGs2akGI0BvVMBXFyzvD2r_-201Z0/edit?usp=sharing

[Sailor Steve]

That is fantastic work! :rock:

[THE_MASK]

Minelaying subs .
Something no other sub game has afaik .
Not sure how fun this would be unless the game progresses far enough and I am in an aussie sunderland bombing you .
http://uboat.net/types/xb.htm

[Onkel Neal]

That's a gold mine!! Thanks :rock:

[PL_Andrev]

Not sure that mine laying is what the players are waiting for...
All funny games are seek & destroy, by torps or guns.

We can copy some missions from SH4 (supply aid, secret agents mission, port recon) but not sure it is "must have" missions in game.

[keysersoze]

If done properly and sparingly, minelaying could be quite exciting. After all, it usually involved silently infiltrating very near the most active Allied ports--almost always dodging destroyers and ASW trawlers. I know of at least one U-boat skipper who simply lost his nerve when ordered to infiltrate a major port and deposit mines despite heavy enemy ASW patrols. Donitz relieved him upon returning to port.

In that sense, I think being ordered, every once in a while, to do things like lay mines in a heavily trafficked harbor might be a real challenge, especially considering the mine storage requirements would leave you with few to no torpedoes and therefore reliant only on stealth, good judgment, and audacity.

[Onkel Neal]

Scapa Flow mission is next.

[MadSin]

Hello! I would like to propose the idea of ​​implementing accelerated time for a cooperative company. The idea is as follows. The navigator or any other member of the crew who understands in the navigator's business in advance calculates the route to the selected position of the far transition. The data is entered into the conditional table on the basis of the "course" and "travel time for a given course" principle. Thus, the entire route is entered. Then the commander presses the time compression button, all crew members confirm readiness and after that the whole crew is displayed in the map mode and simply sees the moving point along the specified route. The captain can at any time reset the time compression and all players return to the boat, or if at the moment of passing the route a post appears in the detection zone:Kaleun_Salute:

With the possibility of compressing time and long-distance crossings to any point on the map, it will be possible to implement trade routes for convoys and single ships, random convoys and single ships going not along trade routes and significantly dilute the monotony of being in an open water area when there is no enemy.

To avoid the fact that 5 players would observe a long time marker moving on the map is possible. 100% will be players who are willing to spend their time on searching and traveling, the rest, missing players, you can replace AI, Players can join at any time and take their place. The captain (master of the lobby) can, when a convoy is detected, pause the game and save and wait for the whole team to assemble and then join the battle. The ability to compress time does not harm, but adds positive moments to the game for many players.

[iagocor]

Skirmish
Skirmish is merely an instant action convoy/war patrol encounter. Most U-boat missions are essentially: Locate convoy, Intercept convoy, Attack convoy, Evade escorts (re-engage if possible). This is what Doenitz tasked his U-boats with and this is what they sought. In real life, assembling a group of U-boats and locating a convoy could take weeks, and often a U-boat commander would never find a battle. Obviously, this would not work for a simulation, no one wants to simulate the boredom and frustration of empty seas.:doh: And when you are talking cooperatively manned subs, by four dudes in real life, even less so. So, the plan is to start a skirmish mission off with the enemy within reasonable range, so the players can possibly intercept and engage within 30 minutes to an hour. It is important to note that we intend to have the missions dynamically generated, so no matter how many times you play a skirmish mission, the inclusion, placement, and course of the enemy will vary. Sometimes you will start off close and in favorable position, sometimes you will have to establish contact and attempt to obtain a favorable firing position without being detected.

So, whenever you want to play a quick game with your friends, you can select a convoy encounter, warship encounter, or random encounter and test your mettle as a U-boat crew.



Thats the actual mode? I really like the idea of a open sea ""full"" of spawning convoys to run away, face or wait for the wolfpack (and a way for doing that: setting a target and coordenates to be shared with other members besides the ordinary radio ¿?)

The continuity may be achieved by making the ships harder and harder every time: Let the timer go from 1939(or 1942 or whatever) to 1945 and vary, all according to the players particular set up and "checkfields").

I know this games are often limited by the number of players, but i think that
we could achieve a game with many new commanders serving the kriegsmarine after the old ones logg off or die(an inside lock for the hatch would be nice btw) thats more fullfilling, the only limitation being sharing/buying the host. I played other games where the savegame was shared among players, wich i think have the same POV that subsims, and it was really good.

So i think this is the best argument in behalf of open world: It won't be single-played! You can actually set a tournament with 4 teams playing at the same time in the same sea or rotate the crew untill the ships perish or time passes.


3 questions:
-Can you give any advance on what are the thoughts on the PVP?
-And more important one: Is any non-submarine ship going to be rided? I am not against it, but i read a comment about it, DD vs SSS, here and i want to know opinions.
- I don't want to be rude, but is this game really gonna progress? i mean... seems it would take a lot (not judging).

PS: I agree that campaing is by far the most appealing and important part of the game.

[blackswan40]

Onkel Neal when I started writing the Steel Sharks Gwx Campaign I used the following sources for info on Convoys ect


http://www.convoyweb.org.uk/


https://warsailors.com/convoys/index.html

for the biggest Convoy Battles and most successful Uboat Patrols

https://www.uboat.net/ops/convoys/battles.htm


I told ya I was a Uboat n Submarine nutjob its all to do wid my date of birth
3/9/65
same day Limeyville declared war on Germany in 39 and the same year his nibs Winston Spencer Churchill Passed away

[blackswan40]

World at War Wolfpacks A insight into the Battle of the Atlantic A good Watch Enjoy


https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3p7bjc

[Onkel Neal]

Thanks, Andy!:Kaleun_Applaud:

[Aktungbby]

Madsin! :Kaleun_Salute: & iagocor!:Kaleun_Salute:

[Bangoo]

I don't think it is the best idea to make long campaigns, it's not easy to gather five players online for more than 1-3 hours. Time compression is not the solution because in case of frequent aircraft encouters players should jump again in real time. It would require significant time before the boat reaches the convoy.
Wolfpack is the most promising U-boat simulator at the moment and may be it is better to concentrate on its main feature - deep immersion into the convoy attack atmosphere.

[MadSin]

I don't think it is the best idea to make long campaigns, it's not easy to gather five players online for more than 1-3 hours. Time compression is not the solution because in case of frequent aircraft encouters players should jump again in real time. It would require significant time before the boat reaches the convoy.
Wolfpack is the most promising U-boat simulator at the moment and may be it is better to concentrate on its main feature - deep immersion into the convoy attack atmosphere.

Maybe not even the acceleration of time, but there must be the possibility of traveling, searching, entering enemy harbors, patrolling the enemy’s trade routes, and so on. It’s very likely that you’ll get bored with the "sea shooting", when you know for sure that there is a target nearby and you just attack it ... the multiplayer mode in the SH5 was not particularly popular, unlike the company mode, and in almost any submarine simulator , the bulk of players are attracted by the possibility of hunting, surveillance, ambushes and spectacular attacks, and a considerable part of it is taken by the journey, but few people are interested in just shooting at ships, no matter how cool this shooting is.

Maybe it would be a great option, but this is for true fans of this genre ... this is one common, large real-time server with convoys, radio messages, air reconnaissance ... well, in general, something similar to a dynamic company in real time. The navigator sets the route and the boat moves along this route with the given parameters in real time, even in the absence of players. Teams can transmit messages between boats using radio communications, and messages can come ... even to this site and everyone can read them even without being in the game and plan further actions. Will the boat 3 days go to some point? So let it go for 3 days. It resembles browser strategies ...) Again, a website or a smartphone application can request weather conditions at the point where the boat is located or read radiograms ... And if not one player from the crew does not enter the game more ... well, for example ... a month , the boat automatically returns to the port and its tail number is free for use by other players. Well, this mode ... for lovers of the genre, it seems to me):Kaleun_Salute:

And how can the guys of the developers earn money while not losing interest? Well, you can sell camouflage skins, for example, or posters and pictures in residential compartments ... the main thing is not to cross the line)

[PL_Andrev]

Scapa Flow mission is next.

Not sure this is a correct way where this game should develop.
Don't understand me wrong, Scapa Flow mission is a good idea, but I miss for features which made Silent Hunter greatest sim last decade:

Mission Editor to create a Scapa Flow mission by community and load it from external server,

External Ship to add a much more different ship units to the game by community and load it from external server,

And, of course, I'm still waiting for PvP expansion for Wolfpack game: to control Destroyer and hunt Grey Wolves.

:salute:

https://i.imgur.com/gNtZN3J.png

[Terragon]

If I may make a suggestion, after the regular campaign, why not a 'what if' campaign scenario had Germany not made certain errors/mistakes (other than starting World War II).

It's predicated on:


The U.S. did not research the atomic bomb, and has invaded Japan.



Germany did not attempt to attack the Russians, and their non-aggression pact is still good.



June, 1946


We still have a shaky peace with the Russians, allowing us to concentrate our forces in the Western Front. The U.S. Military has invaded Japan, and it is costing them dearly. Allies are fighting fiercely, and though we have improved boats, they have improved as well. The fight in the Atlantic is a desperate one.


I've never seen something like that in a U-Boat campaign.


Maybe that's crazy, but whatever.

[Onkel Neal]

In order to get the game out the door and off to a good start the initial focus was on open ocean convoy battles--the quintessential U-boat scenario. We plan to come back to open ocean battles with improvements later but now with bots added to the game, the direction switches to the Scapa Flow mission. This will add another level of tension and stress to the players because there are a lot of things to deal with in a harbor penetration and we want to include all the elements:


nets
mines
blockships
coastal batteries
patrols
Fishing boats
Northern lights
lookouts
Rip tides and tidal factors
Enigma messages
Time factors


A successful Scapa Flow mission will be a challenge. I'm sure there are a lot of players here who can add suggestions and ideas to make the scenario realistic and enjoyable.

I'm proposing a historical version of Scapa Flow, where the elements are faithful to the 1939 situation and also a Scapa Flow II where the elements are more randomized so the players will not have a formula and roadmap to success. Sometimes the blockships will be in different locations, sometimes there will be unexpected patrols, other times additional nets. I also would like to see the occasional Enigma message received that, when properly encoded, will supply the players with crucial intel such as location of minefields and tidal flows.

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=1203&pictureid=10602

Precise navigation without GPS on the map will also be a fascinating gameplay element in this mission.

[Lost At Sea]

Wow !
This is going to be brutal...
Love the idea of having historical settings and the option for a more random mission.

Cheers,
Lost

[ceh]

This image prompted me to read about the real Scapa Flow mission.

Yes, I call myself a submarine buff but I'm not educated on the history :(

Anyway, found this website with a detailed account of the sortie. Riveting read :) I'm sure folks here know the story, possibly the website too, but just in case (http://www.u47.org/english/u47_sca.asp)

[JuanLiquid]

The randomizations sounds very good for me. It would be interesting for a future campaign (Only if you plan it) being able to adding randomization to other ports.

I'd love to have for this mission some torpedo fail rate. Like dub, or those configured as impact that miss because their angle of impact is far from 90º. Magnetic/speed for vapor ones, would be nice too. In the 39 they should fail a lot, in the 42 they should be better (I hope see later dates! like 43 or 44 for those of us that like difficult games!).

Because if the torpedo is perfect you can fire it safely and in an accurate way (0 knots..., just aim the scope) at 4-5Km. And if one hit mean one ship, you may do your own "Pearl Harbor" with just your five preloaded shots.

Another idea would be adding more chaos once a torpedo hit or you get detected, like cars moving, people running to destroyers, SOS calls, (lifeboats in case of regular convoy games) - but I think it's too much work. Also, a good retreat if mandatory.

If you are able to surface the boat without being seen for some time + reach deep waters + sink at least one capital ship, then it should be a Victory. It should be pretty fun to see mad destroyers looking for you, and maybe randomnly deep charging to express their anger. Also planes in a future, looking for revenge.

[THE_MASK]

What about an option to start 200 kilometers away so the nutters can have a chance to play multiplayer for 2 days straight in real time . The mission finishes when you reach 10 klm radius from the random starting point . Organize realtime sleeping eating playing arrangments etc . Random ships and planes would have to be at least 200 klm radius from Scapa .

[Skybird]

What about an option to start 200 kilometers away so the nutters can have a chance to play multiplayer for 2 days straight in real time . The mission finishes when you reach 10 klm radius from the random starting point . Organize realtime sleeping eating playing arrangments etc . Random ships and planes would have to be at least 200 klm radius from Scapa .
And I thought sim racers demanding 24hours endurance racings in real time were crazy people! :03:

[THE_MASK]

More player options is a good thing .

[Superesse]

@Neal
Close-to-shore navigation without GPS position would definitely be a real challenge! Interesting!

[Von Due]

Been following the developement on the sideline since Marulken (as much as real life allows anyway) and after reading how the radio direction finder was used for navigation purposes while thinking about how to give the radio man some more game things to play around with (mind you, I don't have the game yet):
Would it be an idea to have any player or all disable and enable in the game setup, the map update on the boat's location while surfaced, so that the radio man can co-work with the nav officer to pinpoint the boat's location on the map? I believe the dir.finder is currently inactive ingame but in the future that could very well change. Anyway, just a thought for added gameplay and co-op between players. Add a few landbased radio stations to tune in to, have the radio operator find the bearings to these stations and give the nav officer what he/she needs to plot their position. Just don't tell Döntiz his men are listening to BBC radio :D

[gurudennis]

@Usurpator: wrong thread?

[Usurpator]

@Usurpator: wrong thread?

Yes, I just reposted it in the updates thread :up:

[Aglos]

I recently bought this game, I would also like to see a dynamic campaign in the future