Alternative Recognition Handbook

[Von Due]

Browsing the web I found these pages from an authentic ship recognition handbook. Now I'm thinking how nice it would be to have a SH3 rec manual in the same format. Exactly how it should be done is up for discussion. Anyone interested in joining in on creating such a handbook for SH3+supermods like GWX and others?
http://img.spunkyworld.com/eimg/kriegsflotten/kriegsflotten1940.jpg

[Fahnenbohn]

:yeah: Nice find ! But there are more than 400 pages ?!!

[badwolf]

Unfortunately, the biggest problem with the ingame recognition handbook, is that most of it is hardcoded and can't be changed easily.
Pity as big improvements could be done in this area.

[badwolf]

It would have been nice to be able to change the layout, so that searching for ships was far easier. Especially as mods have added many ships to the game.
Due to hardcoding, the only solution was to start completely afresh, which won't be easy.

[Von Due]

When I was looking at this other mod CAWS, the modder managed to include a sheet on the orders page with link zones to pop up papers. If one could ask permission to use that for a draggable rec manual's page index, then that could very well solve the problem with having multiple pages. Luckily in SH3 we don't need 400 pages as the number of unique ships are far fewer than in the real world.

Some stray thinking: If we could use that sheet as a starting point, then change it to a slide in when hover the cursor near the edge in scope view to bring up the idex, hover the mouse over the page you want to look at and it pops up. Move the cursor away and the handbook returns to the off screen position. Can this be done?

[GT182]

Von Due, who would someone ask for permission? I doubt very much UBI would allow any messing about with hard coded material. But then again, I hope I'm wrong.

Who ever can do it.... just do it. It's only a mod. ;)

[Von Due]

Von Due, who would someone ask for permission? I doubt very much UBI would allow any messing about with hard coded material. But then again, I hope I'm wrong.

Who ever can do it.... just do it. It's only a mod. ;)

For permission, I was thinking of the creator of CAWS :)

[GT182]

For permission, I was thinking of the creator of CAWS :)

Ahhhhh, ok. I misunderstood. :oops:

[Von Due]

Been thinking a bit more.

Using the WS MaGui mod, there is a custom made TDC panel on the Obs scope page, one you click a button to show and click again to hide. It's a fully funtional TDC panel.

One could use something like that, add a button to the scope page for a custom panel with links to pop up pages of the manual, or possibly another layer of click-to-stay/click-to-banish pages.

[Von Due]

Finally had the time to play around with the idea some more.

Here is a quick sketch of something that could turn into something more
http://i63.tinypic.com/k066hl.png

Numbers in brackets refer to an index of all the ships in the rec manual in order.

It becomes increasingly apparent to me that something like this would help immensely in avoiding hundreds of clicks through the rec manual and still not being able to do a side by side comparison. Definitely on my to do list now.

If someone wants to play around with that image, then go ahead.

EDIT Seeing the png I attached was converted and shrunk down, you'll best open that image there in another tab and have your ways with it there.

EDIT 2 (nerd-out and replaced image) Turns out the ammo ship might be based on USS Mount Hood (AE-11) of the Mount Hood class, starting life as Marco Polo, a C2-S-AJ1. Only issue is AE-11 wasn't commissioned until 1944, a good 5 years after that "photo" was taken and M.P. wasn't built until 1943 either. Oh well....

[mikey117us]

This is a Link just for those interested the Book was actually 698 pages long. U-Boats Carried que Cards to Rundown a Basic Hull, Stack, Machinery, Hoists, and jigs, Bow Shape, Then Knew which section to search in the Book.
Link 1: The Card and Formula http://www.uboatarchive.net/KTB/KTBNotesGroener.htm

Link 2: Excerpts from "Die Handelsflotten der Welt"
http://www.uboatarchive.net/KTB/KTBNotesGroenerPart4.htm

Link 3:Sublynx work called, chart add-on 1.4
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=197685&page=6

Sublynx has additional Mods dealing with ad-on charts and Colored Filters for Widescreen Magui version 1.6

[Von Due]

Sweet find there. Would be nice to make this work in a similar way.

EDIT: As for the chart add-on, I am struggeling to have additional charts working with my mod soup. Next is, I use the merchant fleet mod and J to Z Destroyers and want a rec manual like these that covers the new ships.

[sublynx]

There is no need to ask for any permissions from me. Just use any of my mods in anyway you like.:arrgh!:

[Von Due]

There is no need to ask for any permissions from me. Just use any of my mods in anyway you like.:arrgh!:

Thank you!

Another nerd-out:
Looking into the various ship classes, I stumbled across the fact that the only Cyclops (AC-4) was lost in 1918. However, there were sisterships, of the Proteus class, lead by Proteus (AC-9). Not a whole lot luckier, it was lost in 1941 but at least it's one that could be sighted in 1939-1941. That's one up for change.
There are other issues with classes and names, and it's not helped by the convoluted naming system for files in the SH3 folders. I have tga files that don't match any classes in EnglishNames.cgf, which to my understanding is where naming for the rec manual takes place.
Then there are ships that aren't mentioned in the rec manual, like other submarines, lightboats, and this very odd looking speedy boat with a flat box like top structure I never saw anywhere in the rec manual or museum. This blighter was found far west of Ireland in 1939.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/attachment.php?attachmentid=1923&stc=1&d=1460645807


EDIT: Slowly getting the tga files converted, only about 60 left. Still the issue of identifying all of them then work out a final master index.

[Von Due]

A thought that warrant its own post:

After looking at how SH3C can automate the skin change in the MFM, I wonder if it can automate the recognition manual as well, the way I picture it will be. Right now I'm picturing a master index pop up that has only a few options for sub-pop ups, each with only a small number of sub pages:
Navy or merchant
Number of chimneys
Position of chimney(s)
Superstructure (gap to bridge or not?)
Masts

By then the possible ships should be narrowed down sufficiently for sub pages small enough to fit on screen while have all the relevant possible ships in clear view.

The hope is that I can use the folder structure in SH3C's date folder to have SH3C pick the appropriate rec book, so that only ships active in that period will show up. Whether that can be done or not is to me a totally open question.

[HW3]

Cyclops (AC-4) is a "Easter Egg" ghost ship like "The Flying Dutchman" found somewhere in the Bermuda Triangle as I understand it.

[Von Due]

Well that does sound like a possibility although stories like Bermuda triangle mysteries tend to make me irrate and move on to something else. Incidentally, Proteus and 1 other sister, Nereus also disappeared in that area so it would still work IMHO to keep both the Proteus class and the hint to bizarre stories heard from drunken sailors. Nereus disappeared during WW2 so I might use that for the Cyclops and then there is the AC9 group for Proteus.

EDIT: Finally done converting all 300++ images for identification and editing. That took a while but that is still little compared to the upcoming identification of all the images.

EDIT 2: After conciderations and looking at Sailor Steve's list, I decided to keep Cyclops as a class if it is indeed an easter egg. Steve has already included Proteus and her other sisters alongside other ships unknown to me. I'll stick to his list for now.

[iambecomelife]

Thank you!

Another nerd-out:
Looking into the various ship classes, I stumbled across the fact that the only Cyclops (AC-4) was lost in 1918. However, there were sisterships, of the Proteus class, lead by Proteus (AC-9). Not a whole lot luckier, it was lost in 1941 but at least it's one that could be sighted in 1939-1941. That's one up for change.
There are other issues with classes and names, and it's not helped by the convoluted naming system for files in the SH3 folders. I have tga files that don't match any classes in EnglishNames.cgf, which to my understanding is where naming for the rec manual takes place.
Then there are ships that aren't mentioned in the rec manual, like other submarines, lightboats, and this very odd looking speedy boat with a flat box like top structure I never saw anywhere in the rec manual or museum. This blighter was found far west of Ireland in 1939.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/attachment.php?attachmentid=1923&stc=1&d=1460645807


EDIT: Slowly getting the tga files converted, only about 60 left. Still the issue of identifying all of them then work out a final master index.

LOL! I remember making her! I swiped a small boat from one of the "Hunt" class destroyers...turned it into a launch that would be used to carry men or supplies to shore.

And you're doing a great job of matching up the auxiliaries to plausible ship classes - when I first built them, I pretty much designed generic, modern-looking cargo ships instead of going off blueprints. There were only a few exceptions, like the Liberty Ship and T-2 tanker auxiliaries.

[Von Due]

LOL! I remember making her! I swiped a small boat from one of the "Hunt" class destroyers...turned it into a launch that would be used to carry men or supplies to shore.

Ah! :haha: Nice one. You really had me there. Ps, someone forgot to give those gentlemen a chart of the waters. He was a good 150 km off the coast raging across stormy waves.

And you're doing a great job of matching up the auxiliaries to plausible ship classes - when I first built them, I pretty much designed generic, modern-looking cargo ships instead of going off blueprints. There were only a few exceptions, like the Liberty Ship and T-2 tanker auxiliaries.

I can't really take much credit for giving them real classes. I am using Sailor Steve's list of classes and names as a foundation. In fact, without his list, I don't think I would have had the stomach to even start on this.

[Von Due]

Status:
Done converting all sil.tga files, and made an index of all ships, classnames and displayed names. Made a test slide out sheet.
Started looking at the mechanics.
Managed to create a slide-out for the main page.
Experimenting with menu groups within menu groups and coordinates both for trigger zones and images. Managed to have a 2nd slideout from the slide out main page but the positioning is all wrong. This is confusing to say the least.

One thing: I've read the MenuIniGuide11 and I'm looking at code but I can't for the life of me see how the buttons' functions are defined. I see groups of type 1032 with an ID that is not referred to anywhere else as far as I can tell, with a Menu Group as parent. Can someone shed some light on how one can make custom made buttons for toggling on and off an image?

Another thing: Is there a document on the various types used in menu_1024_768.ini? Some types are commented but their functions are often unclear while other groups I have no idea what do.

[Von Due]

Stumbled across a possible issue with at least one of the ships in the MFM v3.2.

With map updates enabled, I measured with the ruler the distance to an M32X freighter with a listed mast height of 16m to about 3000m.

Reading the mast angle by the a. scope marks (x12) then first using a calculator, then MaGui's scope wheel both giving the same result, gave me a distance about a 500-1000m short of the real distance. Running the calculations in reverse it gave me a mast height of closer to 12m.

Again, running the calculations in reverse, I calculated where on the scope's markings the mast should have been to match and the result was that no part on the ship matches the result I got. Closest was the top edge of the stripe on the chimney.

Now I was pretty tired and errors can be made but I'm pretty darned sure I got it right, doing the measurements over and over and doing the calculations each time.

This is a problem for any rec manual and I need to set up a test on all the MFM ships to find out what's going on. This will take a good while.

[Tycho]

Your calculations are wrong or the mast height in recognition manual is wrong, do not believe on the ships .cfg files from where rec manual take its values.
Measure the ship dimensions on the 3d model with S3D, in engine units. 1 engine unit is 10 meters.
I did that for all ships in my installation, some time ago. For mast height, take in mind the ship draught in the ship .sim file.

[Von Due]

Thanks, Tycho. This is what worries me a great deal that these values can be arbitrary numbers with no ties to what we see in game. This isn't MFM specific then so I would need to check all 300+ ships now... after learning what S3D is and how to use it.

[Tycho]

S3D - Silent 3ditor by Skwasjer (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=119571)

[Von Due]

Appreciated.

Methinks this project is becoming a very long term project far more involving than just creating a rec man.

EDIT: The S3D requires a DirX 9 "with Managed Extensions". DirX9 is deprecated and any search on MS's site for managed extensions come up emtpy. A google search revealed a Managed Extensions for C++ however but I am in the dark as to if this is what I need. In any case, that too is deprecated.

I think if I'm to make any headway here then I have no other choice but brute force and lots of time, getting useable data for the rec man by playing the game.

[mikey117us]

I recently changed from my legacy XP PC to a quadcore optiplex Windows 7 64-bit. I totally forgot about what I needed for S3D. It is Direct X 9.0c SDK ( develpers kit ) that you need and microsoft still has it for download just got it. S3D is important to any subsimmer even if you just want to inspect a mod to know why/how it works. That is key to new modders continuing work or introducing new ideas that keep this game living. I am busy now if you require a direct link let me know.

[Von Due]

A link would be MOST appreciated, perhaps with a bit of elementary info on what that SDK involves and if any programming skills are needed and if so, which language? I have only a slightly better than Hello World grasp on C, C++ I know next to nothing about and other languages I know absolutely nothing about except that Moo is a ridiculous language.

Anyway, a resounding yes please to any link and although as of now I'm already swamped with new stuff to learn so any learning how to use that SDK and S3D will have to wait, they're on my radar now.

[gerhard moncada]

Browsing the web I found these pages from an authentic ship recognition handbook. Now I'm thinking how nice it would be to have a SH3 rec manual in the same format. Exactly how it should be done is up for discussion. Anyone interested in joining in on creating such a handbook for SH3+supermods like GWX and others?
http://img.spunkyworld.com/eimg/kriegsflotten/kriegsflotten1940.jpg

Here the pdf of complet authentic ship recognition handbooks for you idea.
"Anyone interested in joining in on creating such a handbook for SH3+supermods like GWX and others?"

DEUTSCHE REICH:

Weyers Taschenbuch der Kriegsflotte 1940: (96 mb size)


http://www.mediafire.com/view/8fat2n8a1m7m4ga/Weyers_Taschenbuch_der_Kriegsflotte_1940.pdf




ALIED FORCES:

Jane Fighting Ships 1942: (49 mb size)


http://www.mediafire.com/view/4pjvc39uaoik5kz/janes_fighting_ships_1942.pdf



Ahoy:salute:

[Von Due]

Here the pdf of complet authentic ship recognition handbooks for you idea.


:woot: Thanks heaps!