Atolls & Allies

[Crannogman]

I have been putting together a small, terrain-based mod to augment the Pacific experience. I generally found the stock atolls to be rather ho-hum, with rare islands (of ridiculous elevation) and a lot of open water, with sub-wrecking sub nets strewn about. Other areas are similarly devoid of their real-world navigational hazards, turning treacherous waters into areas where the main concern is simply "how deep can I dive?" I presume this has to do with the curious reality that there is no terrain height between 4m ASL and ~30m BSL.
Inaccuracies extend to the man-made realm as well. Midway, for instance, harbors an enormous battle fleet. Corregidor is toothless, while the batteries protecting Pearl Harbor are placed fancifully. In other places, harbors are completely misplaced.

I have been using the GWX Terrain Extractor to build accurate atolls and reefs, with a hopefully pleasing result. The reefs will still include sub nets, but their location will be much more evident from the navigation map. Not only will this force the player to use the actual channels, but hopefully it will help keep the AI from running aground. As progress is made, the campaign files are being "fixed" to route shipping properly.

I have been adjusting other campaign files to more accurately reflect port locations - Cavite, Honolulu, Tulagi, Wellington, Seattle, and others have all gone under the knife. Major lighthouses are being added, partially as an aid to those who practice "real navigation" in treacherous places like the Torres Strait. Existing pre-war fortifications and mobile units (eg the marine Defense Battalions) will be modeled.

I am also planning on revising the locations (and types) of sub tenders and other auxiliary vessels. Capital ships of both the US and Japanese navies (and perhaps the British, in the future) will also be relocated - no more carriers docked at Midway, although you might find the occasional battleship being repaired in Noumea.

Some the US battleships had odd secondary armaments, and so these have been revised based on the historical record. These and other files may be released pending permissions from the RSRDC team.

I can't speak too much to time-frame. The terrain files are divided into 1 Degree by 1 Degree squares, each of which takes me about an hour to modify depending on how much atoll is present. I obviously only plan to fix a relatively small fraction of the Earth's surface; still, it has taken me most of July to do the Marshall Islands and a few other high-interest points. Other campaign files will await permissions from other modders, as much of the shipping I have adapted from RSRDC. I do hope to have this ready for release in a few months, and hope to have it available for incorporation into Capn_Scurvy's upcoming Day of Infamy mod. But I thought I would go ahead and put this out there in case anyone is also interested in fixing these inaccuracies.

~Crannogman

[fitzcarraldo]

A great work, many thanks!

All the best.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[Rockin Robbins]

I only ask that you stake out a clear territory: campaign and map, and leave gameplay, ship and sub skins, nav map and attack map tools and usage, enemy AI, all aspects of gameplay BUT enemy shipping, map issues, where guns and ships defending are. Seems like that's a huge territory by itself and it would be great to have a campaign mod that didn't mess with the rest of the game.

And if you keep all added ships those from stock 1.5 then your mod would work with any supermod or the stock game without having to modify it.

I want to see Pearl Harbor like it deserves to be and my fondest wish is to see it under attack December 7, 1941.

[Crannogman]

There's plenty for me to do on the map without messing with 3D models and AI etc. I will need to go back to stock and see what's there, but most likely the campaign changes will be based on RSRDC and NMMO. A stock version may be released as an afterthought, although I can't for the life of me figure out why someone wouldn't want to use RSRDC's (c/w stock) vastly-improved ship traffic (although I realize RSRDC includes a bunch of other changes as well).

I can't speak fully to what you mean when you talk about "Pearl Harbor asit deserves to be." I'd like to at least get the capital ships right, but there's not that much evidence that I've found of where various ships docked after 1941. If you have some, that would be incredibly useful.

[Crannogman]

Finally finished the Marshall Islands, most of the Eastern Carolines, Torres Strait, Ball's Pyramid, Lot's Wife, Smith Island, Bayonaise Rocks, Wake, Diamond Head, Midway, Nishinoshima, and Okinotorishima.

Next up are the Central and Western Carolines, where charts and good satellite imagery is more sparse. Then the Ontong Java area and more of the Coral Sea / Great Barrier Reef. At least the Photoshop skills are coming along

[fitzcarraldo]

Finally finished the Marshall Islands, most of the Eastern Carolines, Torres Strait, Ball's Pyramid, Lot's Wife, Smith Island, Bayonaise Rocks, Wake, Diamond Head, Midway, Nishinoshima, and Okinotorishima.

Next up are the Central and Western Carolines, where charts and good satellite imagery is more sparse. Then the Ontong Java area and more of the Coral Sea / Great Barrier Reef. At least the Photoshop skills are coming along

Great!

It seems this mod will be a must have.

Many thanks!

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[Rockin Robbins]

There's plenty for me to do on the map without messing with 3D models and AI etc. I will need to go back to stock and see what's there, but most likely the campaign changes will be based on RSRDC and NMMO. A stock version may be released as an afterthought, although I can't for the life of me figure out why someone wouldn't want to use RSRDC's (c/w stock) vastly-improved ship traffic (although I realize RSRDC includes a bunch of other changes as well).

I can't speak fully to what you mean when you talk about "Pearl Harbor asit deserves to be." I'd like to at least get the capital ships right, but there's not that much evidence that I've found of where various ships docked after 1941. If you have some, that would be incredibly useful.
RSRDC makes gameplay changes that make playing TMO, RFB and GFO impossible. He strayed WAY outside the boundary of enemy shipping into targeting, enemy AI, more ships, environmental changes and more. For instance he completely eliminated Ducimus' "evil airplanes" that could spot you realistically when at periscope depth. He basically rewrites all the options for any mod or the stock game and completely misrepresents what RSRDC really is. It's a mod nerfer and its bad effects outweigh its good effects on shipping. It also completely eliminates the random encounters and substitutes vast wastelands between shipping lanes. Idea: excellent. Execution: below average.

[Haukka81]

RSRDC makes gameplay changes that make playing TMO, RFB and GFO impossible. He strayed WAY outside the boundary of enemy shipping into targeting, enemy AI, more ships, environmental changes and more. For instance he completely eliminated Ducimus' "evil airplanes" that could spot you realistically when at periscope depth. He basically rewrites all the options for any mod or the stock game and completely misrepresents what RSRDC really is. It's a mod nerfer and its bad effects outweigh its good effects on shipping. It also completely eliminates the random encounters and substitutes vast wastelands between shipping lanes. Idea: excellent. Execution: below average.


+1 for this, RSRD is way over hype mod. Sure if some one likes heavily linear campaing :P

[Sailor Steve]

I'm excited about this. So far RFB is the only mod which makes a halfway realistic Midway. This sounds very cool.

[Crannogman]

So my plan is basically to modify the shipping routes so they don't run aground. If people prefer stock to RSRDC, then I can make one for stock, too. I don't really plan to use anything else from RSRDC.

I'm not doing any 3D modeling. There's already a Sofu Gan 3D model, but I made a terrain one that I'm sure is visually inferior - but it is on the map. I find Aanker's model spooky in that it doesn't show up on the map, so I never know quite where to look for it. Presumably, the 3D model will encompass/hide the terrain feature for those who use both.

So, for instance, I haven't seen a Midway that I think is historical - it either appears deserted or overdeveloped. The same is true for a lot of other land locations - but since this game mostly takes place at sea, that's not a huge deal. I'm not going to fix the buildings at Midway. But I have built an accurate reef and shallowed the lagoon, and in time I will make the shipping traffic there more historical.

Again, the engine is hampered by not being able to create a seafloor at a depth like 6ft - submerged, but not deep enough for a ship or sub to navigate. So you will be able to get a sub to places that IRL are not navigable. But I think this is a reasonable compromise

[Rockin Robbins]

Compromise is the only game in town. I'm really looking forward to what you come up with even if I have to run RSRDC to see it.

[Crannogman]

My hope is to have a pure terrain pack ready for release by September. The other campaign layer stuff might be another month or two

[TorpX]

Good luck with the project.

I know fixing anything in SH4 is always more work than it looks like.

[torpedobait]

I very much appreciate the time and effort you are putting into this mod, and look forward to incorporating it into my upcoming career. Thanks.:salute:

[Crannogman]

I hope you all will enjoy it. My guess is that the terrain files can be installed at any time, although the campaign files to follow will probably need to be installed in port.

The Gilberts are proving delightfully easier than the Marshalls. Does anyone ever travel south of the Gilberts, eg to Tonga? I'm trying to decide what to do after the Carolines. I doubt anyone goes to French Polynesia, Baker & Palmyra etc - but if you do, I can fix them as well

[TorpX]

The Gilberts are proving delightfully easier than the Marshalls. Does anyone ever travel south of the Gilberts, eg to Tonga? I'm trying to decide what to do after the Carolines. I doubt anyone goes to French Polynesia, Baker & Palmyra etc - but if you do, I can fix them as well

Speaking for myself, I go where the Navy sends me. :)

[aanker]

Crannogman
"..... although I can't for the life of me figure out why someone wouldn't want to use RSRDC's (c/w stock) vastly-improved ship traffic..."
There are quite a few who don't use the outstanding RSRD mod for a variety of reasons including myself. For those who like it, it is a wonderful mod and they put a lot of research and work into developing it. Others like the Stock game as it is, and some like the Super mod traffic that also address some Stock shipping issues.

Way back when, I really liked Tater's layers and what he was doing.

I prefer the Guerrilla Submarines Spyron Mod that uses the Stock layers, many modified Stock campaign files, additional traffic in areas where there should be shipping in Stock, forward Bases where there really were Bases, and all new 'realistic' Special Mission Objectives that were all heavily researched and are missions actually conducted by US subs in WW II.

My point is, I'm really looking forward to this and hope your mod is a mod that improves and adds the geographical physical features you have mentioned, but is compatible with the many different configurations people use. If it is a RSRD mod, that is your decision of course.

I find Aanker's model spooky in that it doesn't show up on the map, so I never know quite where to look for it. Presumably, the 3D model will encompass/hide the terrain feature for those who use both.I will fix this so there is an X, (it is easy). I thought there was a 'place name' on the map and didn't realize people couldn't find it. Sorry.

Done! : )

[Crannogman]

There is a place-name and dot, but IIRC it disappears at high zoom levels.

The reason I would do it for RSRDC is that, being a relatively new player, it's the only mod I've played (or, until now, heard of) that makes the shipping more historical. Plus, I'm hoping to contribute to Capn_Scurvy's upcoming megamod, which I understand will base its campaign files on RSRDC, so that's a priority.

My hope is that heavy use of sub nets will keep AI ships from running aground - thry seem to be able to "see" other 3D objects but not terrain. If it works as intended (ha!) it would theoretically allow any campaign files to be used, and the AI would just sail around any land masses. So the initial offering might be "good enough for government work."

[torpedobait]

There are quite a few who don't use the outstanding RSRD mod for a variety of reasons including myself. For those who like it, it is a wonderful mod and they put a lot of research and work into developing it. Others like the Stock game as it is, and some like the Super mod traffic that also address some Stock shipping issues.

Way back when, I really liked Tater's layers and what he was doing.

I prefer the Guerrilla Submarines Spyron Mod that uses the Stock layers, many modified Stock campaign files, additional traffic in areas where there should be shipping in Stock, forward Bases where there really were Bases, and all new 'realistic' Special Mission Objectives that were all heavily researched and are missions actually conducted by US subs in WW II.

My point is, I'm really looking forward to this and hope your mod is a mod that improves and adds the geographical physical features you have mentioned, but is compatible with the many different configurations people use. If it is a RSRD mod, that is your decision of course.

I will fix this so there is an X, (it is easy). I thought there was a 'place name' on the map and didn't realize people couldn't find it. Sorry.

Done! : )

Is the Guerrilla Submarines Spyron Mod stil available? I don't find it in the SubSim download section.

[Moonlight]

You'll find it here http://www.subsowespac.org/silent-hunter-4-mods.shtml the download link is about halfway down the page.

[Crannogman]

Here's a taste of what I've been working on. hopefully most of you will recognize this place and how it has been changed from stock

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj501/Crannogman/Midway_zpstpfkssmi.jpg

[torpedobait]

You'll find it here http://www.subsowespac.org/silent-hunter-4-mods.shtml the download link is about halfway down the page.

Perfect! Thank you. :salute: :up:

[Moonlight]

@Crannogman, I would hazard a guess that it's Truk, if it is me thinks I'll give that place a miss. :stare:

[granite00]

I prefer the Guerrilla Submarines Spyron Mod that uses the Stock layers, many modified Stock campaign files, additional traffic in areas where there should be shipping in Stock, forward Bases where there really were Bases, and all new 'realistic' Special Mission Objectives that were all heavily researched and are missions actually conducted by US subs in WW II.

aanker,
Are you running the Guerrilla Submarines Spyron Mod on a stock install or using something like GFO?

[aanker]

aanker,
Are you running the Guerrilla Submarines Spyron Mod on a stock install or using something like GFO?
Something like GFO, it is my heavily modded install I called 'Mod Soup' until that phrase took a negative meaning like, 'corrupted'.

When Ducimus made his 'Flavored To Taste' mod that later became TM, then TMO, he took many small mods made by others, edited each one to be compatible, and added them to his Super mod.

Back in the FTT days it was food, his soup was good, so I always called my small additions 'Mod Soup'.

People in our group used the 'Guerrilla Submarines Spyron Mod' on Stock installs, TMO up to 1.9, (maybe higher?) and RFB. It doesn't run on RSRD because it is a different campaign.

Hope that helps.

[granite00]

Hi aanker,
Very much, thanks. I just completed my first Pacific campaign with TMO/RSRDC and want to try something different.

[Crannogman]

@Crannogman, I would hazard a guess that it's Truk, if it is me thinks I'll give that place a miss. :stare:

That's Midway.

Gilberts are done, Carolines almost done. I haven't done Truk itself because that is already done (it's in the Nav Map Make-Over, which I highly recommend). Next up will be the Coral Sea (+/- Great Barrier Reef), Hawaiian islands, and a band of islands from Hawaii through Samoa to Tonga & Fiji to New Zealand (more for shipping than subs). Efficiency continues to improve, so should be done before mid-September. Again, I hope the subnets will allow it to work with any shipping layers you may use.

That said, I hope that the next installment will include fixed shipping for stock, RSRDC, and Spyron. Also, there should be corrected coastal batteries, and a campaign layer with corrected port locations & lighthouses. If possible, it will also correct harbor traffic for more historical capital ship placement, as well as sub tenders & bases

[torpedobait]

@Crannogman, I would hazard a guess that it's Truk, if it is me thinks I'll give that place a miss. :stare:

Looks exactly like the Midway outline.

[Moonlight]

That's Midway.

Looks exactly like the Midway outline.
I've finally re-installed SH4 1.5 again, now its time to get reacquainted with a submarine and all of the Pacific Islands as well. :oops:

I don't think the Nav Map Make-Over mod will be compatible with the Guerrilla Submarines Spyron Mod so that will have to be given a miss for now. If I knew how to mod this game I would have a crack at it but knowing me I would mess everything up. :nope:

[Rockin Robbins]

Here's a taste of what I've been working on. hopefully most of you will recognize this place and how it has been changed from stock

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj501/Crannogman/Midway_zpstpfkssmi.jpg
Oh my! It's the Happy Hunting Ground! The only problem is are we the hunter or the hunted there? Can't wait to see that fleshed out.

I have great memories of the place. It's where I first tested my Slightly Subnuclear Mark 14 mod and turned an Asashio into the Hindenburg.
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/Silent%20Hunter%204/SS%20Research/Asashio--OhtheHumanity.jpg (http://s196.photobucket.com/user/RockinRobbins13/media/Silent%20Hunter%204/SS%20Research/Asashio--OhtheHumanity.jpg.html)

[Crannogman]

Oh my! It's the Happy Hunting Ground! The only problem is are we the hunter or the hunted there? Can't wait to see that fleshed out.

I have great memories of the place. It's where I first tested my Slightly Subnuclear Mark 14 mod and turned an Asashio into the Hindenburg.
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/Silent%20Hunter%204/SS%20Research/Asashio--OhtheHumanity.jpg (http://s196.photobucket.com/user/RockinRobbins13/media/Silent%20Hunter%204/SS%20Research/Asashio--OhtheHumanity.jpg.html)

Ha ha, remind me to stay away from Midway when you're in the area. Finished the Carolines. I note that Mios Woendi is atoll-like as well. More work to be done...

[Crannogman]

New Caledonia is proving a point I had long suspected - the game world is distorted towards the Poles. New Caledonia is only 20 degrees South of the equator, yet it is definitely stretched East-West. Lining it up with satellite images has been a real pain, especially since it spans multiple map tiles (each is 1 Deg x 1 Deg, and New Caledonia has required about 8). I apologize in advance for weird disconnects along lines of Longitude & Latitude, as I can't directly compare their placement

[Crannogman]

Just as I'm polishing up the Coral Sea, I "discover" a wealth of navigation hazards at the Eastern end of New Guinea, as well as stuff like the Paracels and Spratlys in the South China Sea that may have major repercussions for Jap shipping routes. That and some issues getting in modding time (what with the distractions of work and family) mean that the first edition will be out later than hoped.

Also I will need to "fix" the campaign layers (eg US Naval Bases) for Mios Woendi (at least) to account for the local geography. So far I have noticed that stock, RSRD, and NMMO all have placement issues in this regard; I expect SpyRon (which I have DL'd but not unpacked) does as well. If you enjoy a mod (RFB, TMO, etc) that I have not mentioned above that changes campaign files, please let me know so I can DL it and check what may needs fixin'. I suspect that the "definitive" Atolls & Allies will consist of the terrain files alone, with a comparability version for each mod.

Also, does anyone know how to change the various span locations for the campaign and missions? I'm afraid someone might spawn inside a reef and have an "unproductive" patrol.

[aanker]

Please don't mess with SpyRon. It has a license with terms - it should be left as it is please. It isn't 'freeware' and the mod creator doesn't want it hosted anywhere but subsowespac.org. Please respect his request.

Thanks,

Happy Hunting!

[Crannogman]

Please don't mess with SpyRon. It has a license with terms - it should be left as it is please. It isn't 'freeware' and the mod creator doesn't want it hosted anywhere but subsowespac.org. Please respect his request.

Thanks,

Happy Hunting!

I guess if there appears to be a conflict, I'll send it to the SpyRon peeps and they can handle it as desired

[Crannogman]

I want to see Pearl Harbor like it deserves to be and my fondest wish is to see it under attack December 7, 1941.

I have made some small tweaks to Pearl, as you can see below
http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj501/Crannogman/Pearl_zpsz9a4czkl.jpg

One limiting factor is that the 3D model for Ford Island appears to be a little bit large, and overdeveloped on the NW side. For the Sub base, I suppose I could try the "verysmall_harborI" model as is used at Pearl City, but I think this gets a better angle.

Onwards and upwards. I looked through the SpyRon files and they are nice. However, as with the rest of the mods, Spyron misplaces the Sub Tender etc on the North side of the Mios Woendi, when in fact the lagoon is on the Southeast side. The following picture was taken from almost due South:
http://navy.memorieshop.com/Adair/Cruise-Book/MiosWoendi.jpg

Here is the satellite view; Mios Woendi is the little un-labelled island outlined in red near the middle:
http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj501/Crannogman/Mios_zpszrketbwz.jpg

Majuro has issues as well, Subic Bay is slightly misplaced, Guam and Saipan are quite sparsely populated, and Cavite is generally misrepresented. This is not to bag on SpyRon, but to demonstrate the (mild) inaccuracies that have accrued in all mods from using an incomplete map.

Edit: I should clarify that I am building this from stock files. I have been comparing with other mods to see how compatibility can be achieved with the lowest work for end-users. In most cases, it shouldn't be a problem to overlay the (few) new campaign files over your existing ones. The flotilla.upc files will probably require adjustment for sub spawn locations - the best way to fit this into existing mod environments will probably be to copy/paste the location data into the existing file, letting the other information about sub class and timing reamin true to your particular mod mix

[Crannogman]

Some of you may be aware that not all US sub tenders looked like the Fulton-class tender in the (stock game). USS Canopus and Holland, the primary tenders of the Asiatic Fleet, appear to have been modifications of old passenger ships, while the war-era Griffin-class was a modification of the standard C3-type cargo ship. Since the fast attack transports in game appear to be the Windsor-class (another C3 mod), I plan to use the American troop transport as a stand-in for the "alternative " sub tender classes.

Also moved several of the Australian ports to more accurate positions - eg Fremantle and Brisbane, both of which had their historical sub bases in rivers. It's complicated a little by the preponderance of jetties in the 3d location models - most of the riverine ports were wharf-based

[Crannogman]

Here are some screenshots of the Pearl Harbor Submarine Base in April '42. Fulton and Pelias are at the Base; Vestal stands next to the wreck of Arizona. For sake of simplicity, this is stock 1.5.

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj501/Crannogman/Pearl_zpsbkifvwqd.png

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj501/Crannogman/PearlSubBase_zpstz60s5a6.png

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj501/Crannogman/Ford_zpswokl48jn.png

[Crannogman]

Some screens from Pearl Harbor...

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj501/Crannogman/PH%20SubBase%20NW_zps1nxkmniq.png

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj501/Crannogman/PH%20Dock%20NE_zpsdxz1fjjz.png


http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj501/Crannogman/PH%20Dock%20North_zpsujjhmlnh.png

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj501/Crannogman/PH%20Middle%20Loch%20East_zpsx2qdub9i.png

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj501/Crannogman/PH%20EastLoch%20South_zpsaa0ahnox.png

This is near to the original as I can get with the ships in stock. Somebody mentioned doing the actual attack. It would be tough, what with all the ships getting underway (a dozen or more), some of them needing to move in reverse. Also, the stock plane behaviors are suboptimal. Still, I'll see what I can do 9some other time)

[Rockin Robbins]

I'm impressed! You have made the best of compromises and come out with something pretty breathtaking! I hope this comes out as compatible as possible with other mods, especially the supermods. Great work!

[Crannogman]

I installed a few mods and built a small (36-plane) Pearl Harbor attack. Lets see if you can spot the twist on history...

7:53AM
http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj501/Crannogman/Pearl%202_zpsei6y23gd.png

Battleship Row from Avocet
http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj501/Crannogman/Avocet_zpsr1zl1ftj.png

8 AM and the Jap survivors are boogy-ing Northward
http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj501/Crannogman/PearlAttack_zps5dn5dlcv.png

I think the Kate's torpedoes all fell on Kuahua; as other AI units, they disregard the presence of land. I can probably reduce its width a little to give the fish more space, and maybe improve their approach a little.

Also, I just rediscovered that NBJackso (Thanks!) included a modified 3D location for the Pearl Sub Base in NMMO. I will see what I can move around to try it out and work it in if possible.



Mods:
Game Fixes Only Mod v1.1
Snorkel Name Change Fix
Nav Map Make-Over v2.1
NMMO Maps Add-on
NMMO Reverse Ocean Colors Add-on
NMMO v2.1 Patch 1 no AB
Optical Targeting Correction
Aspect Ratio 8 to 5
SMALLER SEABED ROCKS
sobers better rock Ver 2 mod
sobers better sand II
SS153 USS S-42 Fooskin Clean
SS172 USS Porpoise_Combo
SS184 USS Skipjack_Combo
SS210 USS Grenadier Tambor Fooskin HEAVY WTH HI-RES
SS228 USS Drum_Combo Gato Fooskin
SS285 USS Balao_Historical BALAO HI-RES Weathered

[Nbjackso]

. . . Also, I just rediscovered that NBJackso (Thanks!) included a modified 3D location for the Pearl Sub Base in NMMO. I will see what I can move around to try it out and work it in if possible. . .

You give me WAY too much credit. I never considered myself a "modder" When I released the NMMO mod, I basically took parts from various mods I liked, and manipulated them into a single mod, (giving full credit to the original modders). However, I'm excited to see that you are further refining the maps and 3D worlds in SH4. I follow this thread closely, and I can't wait for the A&A mod to be released.