[TEC] Rendering / Resolution Question (Engine vs GUI) [Archive]

RushTheBus

03-08-15, 04:04 PM

Hi all,

I have a question regarding rendering and resolution. I'm currently running at 2560x1440 IPS panel w/ a GTX 980 and running "Ahnenerbe WideGui 1920 x 1080 Final." Just messing about i edited the d3d9.cfg to reflect 2560x1440. In that resolution the GUI was totally skewed the the image quality in the 3D scene was breathtaking.

I want to preserve the image quality in the 3d scene that the 2560x1440 resolution offers but don't want the GUI to be skewed (the entire right hand side of it was completely out of whack). Is there a way to have the GUI stretcher across a resolution edited by the d3d9.cfg (my monitor is set to scale via GPU in aspect ratio mode)?

That said, i also am curious to know how hard it is to adjust a GUI for high resolution displays. I'm a bit of a fidelity nut and i really am digging that QHD resolution.

Thanks for the input ahead of time.

Rush

BigWalleye

03-08-15, 06:38 PM

It isn't difficult, but it is a lot of work. Most of the major elements of the GUI will have to be relocated in Menu_1024_768.ini. The individual components should be OK, but of course, they will be reduced in apparent size by 50%, so they will be harder to read and the gauges will be harder to set accurately.

All of the 2D screen backgrounds will have to be resized from 1920x1080 to 2560x1440. This includes not only the static screens, like the load screen, menu screens, crew status, etc, but also the periscope and UZO backdrops. You could just stretch them in a bitmap graphics program like Photoshop or Paint.NET, which would not cause any distortion but would visibly degrade image quality. If that result in unsatisfactory, then you will need to create your own screens at the higher resolution.

If you want to tackle this project, I'd suggest you PM either Ahnenerbe or VanJast, who have done the two 1920x1080 mods. They can give you a better idea of what is involved and possibly have some thoughts on how to do this most efficiently.

Good luck.

RushTheBus

03-08-15, 08:24 PM

I appreciate the reply. I will give those guys a shout (hopefully they are still around). I was hoping that the 3d environment was somehow rendered in such a way where it could scale higher than the GUI had to.

The task doesn't seem difficult (just by looking through the files as they are mostly images) just exceedingly time consuming. If there is enough interest i may very well look into working on it.

RushTheBus

03-10-15, 10:04 PM

Does anyone know if SH4 and SH3 are built on-top of the same engine? The reason i ask is because i also have SH4 and that game scales perfectly to my monitor's higher resolution.

Does anyone that has knowldge on the issue know if we could somehow port over a file or files to enable to much higher resolutions?

The d3d9.dll and d3d9.cfg files never seem to work in my favor.

RushTheBus

03-10-15, 11:27 PM

I doubt anyone is actually watching this thread, but i'll post a bit of progress. After looking through a series of old threads here i decided to try to edit the 1024_768.ini file of Ahnenerbe's 1080p widescreen mod ( i shot him a PM but have yet to hear back).

I'm not a programmer, so i decided to try my luck for simply searching for every entry of "1920" and replacing that with "2560" and then doing the same procedure for "1080." After replacing 1920 w/ 2560 and 1080 w/ 1440 i activated it.

As i figured, the loading the screens were misaligned but the main screen was fine. I loaded up a naval academy mission and was kind of shocked. The UI looked stunning (far crisper and clean than it does on 1080p) and the UI elements were only misaligned slightly.

I really don't know where to go from there. Searching UI elements by their file-names in the 1024_768.ini file indicates position coordinates but i have no idea how to read them.

I would be happy to collaborate with someone on a project like this, as i really don't have much in terms of the technical programming ability involved.

Rush

pedalboat

03-11-15, 12:11 AM

Yes, I'm watching and reading it. But the thing is that I don't have a widescreen monitor, but you and all the people with the same problem have my sympathy.
I can't be of help here.

BigWalleye

03-11-15, 08:30 AM

There is a menu.ini guide on Plissken's FTP site, under that screen name "Scudder". It's a good place to start.

There are also 2 good tutorials on SubSim, here http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=111832 and here
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=202268&highlight=guide+to+editing%2Funderstanding+the+men u_1024_768.ini&langid=5. The first one is on an SH4 thread, but the file layout is exactly the same, so it all applies. These should help you get started.

sublynx

03-11-15, 10:13 AM

Scudder's menu guide can also be found from the downloads section for SH3.

If you can read German I believe Bl!tzkr!egs mediafire downloads has Latemail's menu guide in the documents section. I might find that guide hanging around somewhere in my computer if you can't find it there.

I don't have a big screen so I'm not much use otherwise, but i'm sure someone can point you towards easier solutions to any problems if you post them here.

RushTheBus

03-11-15, 10:37 PM

Sadly, i cannot read German. Honestly, this seems like an almost impossible task for me. I understand the general concept of the pos= functions and figured out how some of them work ( and was able to adjust a few parameters to make more items work). That said, i feel like i would be shooting in the dark with some of the positions of items (and having to constantly check in game over and over again) - there has to be a better way.

Is there not a way, in the DLL files to specify to scale the GUI while rendering the 3D environment in 2560x1440?

banryu79

03-12-15, 04:07 AM

What it is in the need, I think, is a tool able to read/edit the Menu_1024_768.ini file and represents it in a GUI in a tree like component with selectable items and a properties panel to show/edit the values of interest (x_pos, y_pos, width, height and other stuff) of a selected item/component.

A tool like this will speed up very much any current and future modding efforts about the game GUI...

BigWalleye

03-12-15, 06:16 AM

sublynx

03-12-15, 07:51 AM

A tool like that would revolutionize GUI development!

RushTheBus

03-12-15, 08:42 AM

Basically, that is what is needed because other than the resolution x & y factors in the 1024_768.ini all the positions seem arbitrary. I tried to scale them (the position coordinates of GUI elements) up 60% (given that 1440p offers roughly 60% more screen real-estate) but that didn't work as i had assumed it would have.

I read over a bunch of old threads last night and (mostly from Rubini & Seeadler) but they are almost 5 years old and don't really offer any new information or insight. I almost feel as though we would need someone to create a new dll to support additional resolution (i attempted to find a free program to decompile the d3d9.dll but couldn't).

Just seems bizarre to me that with the level of talent here this hasn't been addressed before.

pedalboat

03-12-15, 12:17 PM

I know of a program that reads assembler code for both executables and dll files, but I don't what it can really do.
Just google for:

OllyDbg v1.10

BigWalleye

03-12-15, 12:46 PM

Sadly, i cannot read German. Honestly, this seems like an almost impossible task for me. I understand the general concept of the pos= functions and figured out how some of them work ( and was able to adjust a few parameters to make more items work). That said, i feel like i would be shooting in the dark with some of the positions of items (and having to constantly check in game over and over again) - there has to be a better way.

In my post above, I gave you three sources of information, none of which is in German. All are written in English. I have read and used all three of these sources in the past, and they have helped me to learn how to edit the menu_1024_768.ini for my personal use. I am sure that you could find them helpful also.

RushTheBus

03-12-15, 12:57 PM

In my post above, I gave you three sources of information, none of which is in German. All are written in English. I have read and used all three of these sources in the past, and they have helped me to learn how to edit the menu_1024_768.ini for my personal use. I am sure that you could find them helpful also.

The presumption insinuated in your post is incorrect. I did read through those threads. As i stated, in an earlier post, they didn't help me (they may have helped you but we all learn differently)in terms of deciphering how the coordinates work in relation to where .tga files are located. If you understand how it work, then i would appreciate if you could give en example with some short explanations.

ReallyDedPoet

03-12-15, 01:06 PM

Just seems bizarre to me that with the level of talent here this hasn't been addressed before.

Give it time and it will happen :yep:. The game is now 10 years old and I am amazed at what is still being created.

It all starts with discussion such as what is going on here. And patience.

It was not long ago that this great mod was created: (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=215433)

Ahnenerbe WideGui 1920 x 1080 Final (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=215433)

RushTheBus

03-12-15, 01:12 PM

Give it time and it will happen :yep:. The game is now 10 years old and I am amazed at what is still being created.

It all starts with discussion such as what is going on here. And patience.

It was not long ago that this great mod was created: (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=215433)

Ahnenerbe WideGui 1920 x 1080 Final (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=215433)

That's one of the best solutions to date IMO. That's what i was using to test everything on. Like i said, the biggest issue was figuring out how to adjust the Pos= values (ie: can you add 60% to the values when using 1440p or is there some other scheme). I simply cant figure it out (suppose it doesn't help that i feel under the weather today).

ReallyDedPoet

03-12-15, 01:19 PM

That's one of the best solutions to date IMO. That's what i was using to test everything on. Like i said, the biggest issue was figuring out how to adjust the Pos= values (ie: can you add 60% to the values when using 1440p or is there some other scheme). I simply cant figure it out (suppose it doesn't help that i feel under the weather today).

Have you had any discussions with Ahnenerbe (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=315439) ?

Tycho

03-12-15, 01:19 PM

Well, if you don't understand menu_1024_768.ini, then what you will understand from hardcode stuff (because you speak about "decompile" and "assembler code").

Sorry, I really don't have free time to explain circumstantially the menu_.ini.
I only will give you one example with screenshots:

Let's say you want to move these orders elsewhere:
http://oi58.tinypic.com/rva8gw.jpg
.
.
But, because many items in the menu_.ini are connected, and Pos= depend on this, let's follow these connections:
http://oi58.tinypic.com/29m84jn.jpg
.
.
This leads to the following picture:
http://oi61.tinypic.com/2enmbes.jpg
.
.
To move our orders to their new location, we do not need to touch them one by one.
All four orders are child to one menu group (green). We will change only Pos= for the green item.
Measure the distance from the red item to the new position for the green item:
http://oi59.tinypic.com/29bismw.jpg
.
.
Result:
http://oi59.tinypic.com/x2322u.jpg

BigWalleye

03-12-15, 02:03 PM

The presumption insinuated in your post is incorrect. I did read through those threads. As i stated, in an earlier post, they didn't help me (they may have helped you but we all learn differently)in terms of deciphering how the coordinates work in relation to where .tga files are located. If you understand how it work, then i would appreciate if you could give en example with some short explanations.
Tycho has taken care of that for me. If you actually want to learn how to edit menu.ini, then try a few things, experiment, and see how the coordinate system works. It isn't rocket science. Lots of other people have learned how, and they will certainly be willing to help you learn. Some may be willing to work with you on this project. How much effort are you willing to invest?

banryu79

03-12-15, 02:12 PM

I think that is a great idea! I believe that in the past someone tried to make such a beast for SH4. Dunno how it turned out. You might want to start there.
I can very slowly program a GUI application in Java, but I don't know the file format logic of the Menu_1024_768.ini.
The hard part is finding someone that can both program a software with a Gui and that understands very well the logic of the Menu_1024_768.ini.
Finally, he/she has to be willing enough to actually implement it and test it.
I am relatively new to the game (started playing it about one year ago) but, as an ex programmer I am a bit surprise, considering the size and level of activity of the border community here, and the age of the game/mods activity that a similar tool has not yet been created.
To me it means it is a task considered too much difficult (not likely) or to much time-consuming (more likely) to undertake (after all we are speaking about a tool to improve Gui mods-feasibly, not about a direct improvement of the game itself)...
Just my two cents.

RushTheBus

03-12-15, 02:18 PM

Tycho has taken care of that for me. If you actually want to learn how to edit menu.ini, then try a few things, experiment, and see how the coordinate system works. It isn't rocket science. Lots of other people have learned how, and they will certainly be willing to help you learn. Some may be willing to work with you on this project. How much effort are you willing to invest?

I clearly did try a few things, i made it clear what i was able to achieve but also where i ran into the most problems. Again, this presumption that you continue to insinuate that i didn't / haven't tried anything (not sure if that's your intention or not) is mildly frustrating.

I appreciate the explanation Tycho, i'll start identifying those parent IDs and adjusting coordinates accordingly.

Banryu79, i also don't think there has been much of a need for it because many people seem to be running the game on older hardware. The other issue is the majority of people who have newer systems probably are running at 1920x1080. It's only going to become more of an issue (if people want to continue to play the game) as 4k panels become more and more common.

BigWalleye

03-12-15, 03:51 PM

Banryu79, i also don't think there has been much of a need for it because many people seem to be running the game on older hardware. The other issue is the majority of people who have newer systems probably are running at 1920x1080. It's only going to become more of an issue (if people want to continue to play the game) as 4k panels become more and more common.

A point to consider is that 1920x1080 monitors have been available and fairly inexpensive for quite some time. Only in the past six months have (2) 1920x1080 mods made their appearance. Before that, none. That suggests that either there wasn't much interest or (more likely) a conversion is quite a lot of work.

I played at 1366x768 for quite a while. I considered doing a conversion myself, and was dissuaded by the amount of time I would have to spend not playing the game. I was ecstatic when VanJast released his (the first) 1920x1080 and it was for exactly the mod configuration I was playing. I suspect that it may be a while before someone makes a 2560x1440 mod. Or someone may just get a 2560x1440 monitor and an itch....

To me it means it is a task considered too much difficult (not likely) or to much time-consuming (more likely) to undertake (after all we are speaking about a tool to improve Gui mods-feasibly, not about a direct improvement of the game itself)...
Just my two cents.

@Banryu79: I suspect that your last comment is spot on. As I mentioned above, I believe there was some effort made on a menu.ini editor in the past, possibly for SH4. I haven't been able to trace it down. Does anyone recall anything about such a beast?

Jeff-Groves

03-12-15, 04:43 PM

RushTheBus

03-12-15, 04:50 PM

Those threads are a goldmine. Unfortunately, i'm pretty sick at the moment so i don't have the willpower to read through every detail. Once i'm back on my feet i will for sure. Thanks Jeff!

Jeff-Groves

03-12-15, 04:54 PM

My pleasure.
When you get a 1600 X 900 done let me know.
:D

BigWalleye

03-12-15, 05:22 PM

Lots of good info linked in this thread.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1292498#post1292498

Follow the links he has posted for scaling and such.
:03:

SH4 Menu Maker by jimimadrid.
Want a copy?

Thanks, I'd love to get a look at it. It's one of the few things Plissken's doesn't have. (Of course, it's for SH4!)