Real Navigation - maps with lighthouses

[sublynx]

I'm playing with the idea of starting simulating real navigation the easy way - deleting the sub picture from the map and then centering the map view to to get an approximate fix of the location of the boat every time that the sun or the stars are seen (a pity that the sunsets and the sun rises are modeled wrongly in the game).

I thought that to try that I would probably need a map of the Brest area which is my current port. I started toying with the idea of making coastal maps based on the game map, and lighthouses added from SH3MissionEditor, and a couple of names for important islands and peninsulas from Google Maps.

This is an example of what I got after an hour of tinkering.

http://i.imgur.com/PbZ9mrV.jpg

I guess I'll try this, and if I like it I might make some more maps like these. I might then release a lighthouse map mod for those people who like to have a go at manual navigation. Not the whole coasts, but the most important port areas.

(Another way to do this would be editing the game map directly. Adding the lighthouses to that map. But I hate editing that map, because I get the colours all wrong in that and the map is so big that is quite a workload for my old computer.)

[Tycho]

I'm playing with the idea of starting simulating real navigation the easy way - deleting the sub picture from the map and then centering the map view to to get an approximate fix of the location of the boat every time that the sun or the stars are seen.
Liked the idea, will think about, for my future patrols. :)

[LGN1]

Nice work, sublynx!

You could also mark the lighthouses on the map via neutral bases, e.g., Spanish ones. IIRC, GWX has used this method to show the Moltenort(?) memorial....

Cheers, LGN1

[sublynx]

Adding some of the neutral refueling places is a fun idea! First I need to get my weather fixed though.

[makman94]

very nice idea Sublynx ! :up:

coast navigation is a really superb addition to game and very enjoyable doing it
i am really fun of any real navigation ,but once i had discovered some time ago -with the help of Don1reed that celestial navigation is NOT working in sh3 ( here are my findings on the theme: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2077581&postcount=57 ) , i find your idea really really superb!

how, will it look ? the user will be able to see the spots in real time in the ingame map (at every zoom level) or will it be something else ?

[sublynx]

Thanks for the headsup makman94 :salute: I didn't know that celestial navigation is not working as it should.

At the moment I'm planning on making coastal maps as slide down charts, the same scale that is shown on the idea picture. I think it might be possible to add the lighthouses to the world maps (the RAW files) with a little bit of cutting and pasting between Sh3MissionEditor and the RAW files, but I have an old laptop that hates doing anything to those huge files, and will have to wait for a new computer to have a go at that.

Anyways this idea is going to be on hold for quite some time, as time is limited.

[sublynx]

It turns out that one can edit the world map pretty easily with SH3MissionEditor.

http://i.imgur.com/EQPwaze.jpg

I did this by adding a "Naval Base" over a lighthouse, then named the naval base a lighthouse.

In the map this would probably cause problems - these lighthouses are now friendly bases which you can probably dock in :O:

I would have to try these to see if the problems can be managed. The lighthouses done like this would be seen in every map zoom level, so it's tempting to see if the mod could be done like this.

Another problem is that naming the lighthouses garbles up the higher zoom levels with text that is too close to each other - "Brest" would be partly covered by the lighthouse names.

[sublynx]

It seems I've been trying to reinvent the wheel: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom//showthread.php?t=83652&page=3

Maybe this mod can be found in Maik's archive.

[LGN1]

...
I did this by adding a "Naval Base" over a lighthouse, then named the naval base a lighthouse.

In the map this would probably cause problems - these lighthouses are now friendly bases which you can probably dock in :O:

I would have to try these to see if the problems can be managed. The lighthouses done like this would be seen in every map zoom level, so it's tempting to see if the mod could be done like this.

Another problem is that naming the lighthouses garbles up the higher zoom levels with text that is too close to each other - "Brest" would be partly covered by the lighthouse names.

Hi sublynx,

that's exactly the idea I mentioned in my post above. If you use a neutral, e.g., Spanish, base you cannot dock there. To shorten the text you could abbreviate 'lighthouse', e.g., by 'LH'.

Using this method in my personal setup, I have marked an 'Entrance Point' for each base on the map. It's the most distant point where the harbor patrol passes. When returning to my home base, I wait there until the harbor patrol passes and follow the ship into the harbor (to spice things up I have put a random mine-field between this point and the bunker :o This forces me to follow the escort closely (in the shadow) and guarantees a thrilling return to the base. Now the last few km to the base are dangerous as it was historically).

Regards, LGN1

[BigWalleye]

Hi sublynx,

that's exactly the idea I mentioned in my post above. If you use a neutral, e.g., Spanish, base you cannot dock there. To shorten the text you could abbreviate 'lighthouse', e.g., by 'LH'.

Using this method in my personal setup, I have marked an 'Entrance Point' for each base on the map. It's the most distant point where the harbor patrol passes. When returning to my home base, I wait there until the harbor patrol passes and follow the ship into the harbor (to spice things up I have put a random mine-field between this point and the bunker :o This forces me to follow the escort closely (in the shadow) and guarantees a thrilling return to the base. Now the last few km to the base are dangerous as it was historically).

Regards, LGN1

Sounds cool! How do you generate the random minefield? SH3C?

[sublynx]

Sorry LGN1, it seems I somehow missed your idea, maybe the fact that I had not used Sh3MissionEditor much before, made the solution look too complicated to me.

I'll try to have a look at Sergbuto's lighthouse mod and see if a combi lighthouse / entrance point mod would be possible with relatively little effort.

[makman94]

It turns out that one can edit the world map pretty easily with SH3MissionEditor.



I did this by adding a "Naval Base" over a lighthouse, then named the naval base a lighthouse.

In the map this would probably cause problems - these lighthouses are now friendly bases which you can probably dock in :O:

I would have to try these to see if the problems can be managed. The lighthouses done like this would be seen in every map zoom level, so it's tempting to see if the mod could be done like this.

Another problem is that naming the lighthouses garbles up the higher zoom levels with text that is too close to each other - "Brest" would be partly covered by the lighthouse names.

Yes, thats it !! :up:
if player can see the spots in the ingame map then coastal navigation will be very comfort for the user and will have a lot of fun !

It seems I've been trying to reinvent the wheel: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom//showthread.php?t=83652&page=3

Maybe this mod can be found in Maik's archive.

i have not this mod but i am thinking that there are two things that must be checked in this mod for coastal navigation use:
1. does the spots on the map are exactly on the locations of the lighthouses ?
2. i have the sense that Sergbuto have added some (not many) lighthouses here and there. but if we are talking for 5-10 lighthouses here and there then a greater number of lighthouses must be added

[sublynx]

I had a look at Sergbuto's mod, but I'm not going to start adding the lighthouses in those mods. Too much work for me at the moment, at least.

Instead I just added the lighthouses on the French coast. Almost every port has 3 - 4 lights, but I didn't mark every light in a port, as the ports are lit up anyways. I did add the lighthouses that are not inside the cities.

I also did add the end point of the mine escorts run for Brest, which is my home port right now. I had quick run from Brest too see how it works:

http://i.imgur.com/o3R3P4N.jpg

It is promising. Here's the file, in case somebody wants to try this:

http://www.2shared.com/file/a4hEy2AL/lighthouse_map_NYGM36F_beta.html

This experimental file has only one file: campaign_lnd.mis, and it is a file that is NYGM 3.6F specific. It should work with h.sie v16b and Stiebler 4c as well.

Lighthouses are marked:
/I

and the spot where the mine escort from Brest ends his loop:
o

[álvaro]

@ sublynx: Great, Great work. It´s fantastic....thanks very much.:up::salute:

[LGN1]

Nice work, sublynx!

Now add a mine-field between point "o" and the base and you will have a thrilling start and end of each patrol because you have to cross a mine-field before you can go hunting and before celebrating a safe return.

Regards, LGN1

[sublynx]

The mine fields are definitely worth learning how to randomize things with SH3Commander. They need to be randomized to simulate the Germans keeping on clearing the routes again and again.

[twgin]

sublynx, you mention working with the .raw files directly. How is this done, i.e. what program do you use to get into those files ? I ask because I have a recent install of SH3 where I used Ahnenerbe's beautiful wide screen GUI; I thought the nav map too small so I have been tinkering with it. I have succeeded in enlarging it, moving the tools, etc. but to get the background right I think requires getting into the .raw Map1 and Map2 files. Any suggestions ?

Thx,

twgin

[sublynx]

My old Corel Paint Shop Pro Photo X2 is able to open the map. One needs to feed the correct pixel size when it demands them. It's really slow with my computer, or is it about the old Paint Shop Pro. Some other picture editors that open RAW files might do the trick as well.

[twgin]

Thanks ! That did the trick; I was able to find a 30 day free trial of the Corel program and it opened up the .raw files. I use Gimp, but even with the .raw extension it didn't like SH3's files for some reason. Should be able to adjust .raw now to fit larger nav map (and eventually larger attack map).

Off topic, but I am trying to tweak some targeting characteristics. I like doing manual plotting and solutions but...

I hate target ID (looking in the ref book, clicking right and left to find ship), ideally my WO would ID locked targets after some delay, say 20 seconds or so. No target solutions, just a ship ID. I realize this might be "pie in the sky" thinking.

I would like to adjust zoom levels that the "circles" show up on the map, I don't understand (realism wise) why they would appear at some zoom levels and not be visible at higher zoom levels. Where to tweak ?

My torpedo solution tracks don't show up on the attack map (only targeting mod in place is TMT v2, nygm, which I think only affects ship characteristics). Would like torpedo tracks to show on attack map (and nav map for that matter if possible). Helps to see effects of targeting changes like spread angle, etc.

I've seen you tube videos where the torpedos have moving icons when in free camera view. Nice for training purposes.

Finally, when boring in on a convoy with scope up or on surface, convoy ships show up but escorts only show at "circles", never turn into ship symbols, even when UZO or scope locked on to them. How to change ?

Thanks again, I'll post some pics of ahnenerbe wide screen with larger nav map if I can get the .raw files whipped into the correct shape... Who knows, maybe a mod in my future !

twgin

[LGN1]

Hi sublynx,

here is my mine-field for Brest:

[OrdnanceUnit X]
Name=Minefield#4
Class=Minefield
Type=500
Origin=British
Side=1
GameEntryDate=19410101
GameEntryTime=0
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
Long=-560699.000000
Lat=5791101.000000
Height=0.000000
Heading=0.000000
RandStartRadius=0.000000
Density=0.500000
HeightIntervalMin=-2.000000
HeightIntervalMax=-1.000000
NextWP=0

[OrdnanceUnit X.Waypoint 1]
Speed=0.000000
Radius=5.000000
Loop=-1
LoopProbability=100
Long=-560699.000000
Lat=5796841.000000
Height=0.000000

It's just one big circle with a mine density of 0.5 (you can check the density via the Missioneditor. Just choose 'View'-->'Show minefield distribution'). Since the game randomly puts mines in this area, I don't use any randomization by SH3Commander. The crucial parameter here is the mine density. I have chosen a quite low number because already this one forces me to follow the escort.

Regards, LGN1

[sublynx]

1.
I hate target ID (looking in the ref book, clicking right and left to find ship), ideally my WO would ID locked targets after some delay, say 20 seconds or so. No target solutions, just a ship ID. I realize this might be "pie in the sky" thinking.

2.
I would like to adjust zoom levels that the "circles" show up on the map, I don't understand (realism wise) why they would appear at some zoom levels and not be visible at higher zoom levels. Where to tweak ?

3.
My torpedo solution tracks don't show up on the attack map (only targeting mod in place is TMT v2, nygm, which I think only affects ship characteristics). Would like torpedo tracks to show on attack map (and nav map for that matter if possible). Helps to see effects of targeting changes like spread angle, etc.

4.
Finally, when boring in on a convoy with scope up or on surface, convoy ships show up but escorts only show at "circles", never turn into ship symbols, even when UZO or scope locked on to them. How to change ?


Unfortunately I'm not much help here:

1. I don't remember how the weapon officer works. Is it so that when you ask the officer to id the ship, it gives you the range and the AOB of the ship at the same time? Something like "Coastal Merchant, range 2000 meters, AOB 49 port"? If the id goes like this, there probably is a configuration line of the following kind somewhere: "ship: %s %s! %s Range %03.0f! %s Aob %03.0f!;" or something like that. The problem is I have no idea if it really is like that, and if it is, in what file the command line can be found in.:-?
2. Possibly by changing the zoom levels in file maps.cfg or termaps.cfg?
3. strange. I think they should be seen in NYGM, and TMT should not effect that AFAIK.
4. no idea, it's been years since I last saw something in the navigation map that I didn't draw myself.

Perhaps you could make a thread of these question in the main forum, so that more people would see your questions.


here is my mine-field for Brest:

Thanks! There should be no problems, then. I'll try to mod the lighthouses, mine fields and mine escort points in as soon as I get some time :arrgh!:

[twgin]

Thanks, will do !

Getting a bigger nav map in a wide screen GUI is so far a hard nut to crack. The .raw files are twice as wide as tall (for example 6000x3000 in pixels). Only the top third of the file is used for the map image, in the example the map would appear in a band 6000x1000 along the top of the image. The bottom two thirds appears empty. In the top band the worlds land masses appear 3 sequential times. Somehow this is mapped to the nav window and allows zooming to occur. Countless tweaks to maps.cfg and termaps.cfg and resizing of .raw files to no avail so far... most tweaks cause the nav map to be "tiled" i.e selecting different sections of the .raw file and pasting them into the map. Its all ok once you zoom into tiles but at high zooms its a mess !

thanks again,

terry

[sublynx]

Ok, I've now added the lighthouses and Entrance Points to the map, and minefields between the U-boat bases and entrance points.

It would be nice if someone could try the mod and report here if the thing works like it should. If it works I'll upload it to the downloads section.

The yet mostly untested mod can be found here:

http://www.2shared.com/file/J4DCyvAv/Lighthouses_and_Entrance_Point.html

Should work in NYGM and with LGN1's hunter killer mod.

[CaliEs]

Link caused me to download a file named "Saveas.exe".
But as every child knows dont download any exe-files to your computer.

[BigWalleye]

Link caused me to download a file named "Saveas.exe".
But as every child knows dont download any exe-files to your computer.

Link tried to get me to download what Norton AV said was a " fake Flash update." Splash looked genuine, except no Flash logo. Checked, found I have latest Flash version installed. I'd like to try sublynx's mod, too.:/\\!!

[rowi58]

Hi,

i've got the same problem. But - if you click the "small" d/l button, the file is the correct 7z file (typical "problem" of free hoster :/\\!!). Just look at this screenshot (o.k. it's Win 8.1):

http://www.mediafire.com/view/378w54vw6uzk6dp/snap.jpg#

Sorry for this - but MediaFire is a little bit "indisposed" today. :hmm2:.
BTW, www.mediafire.com (http://www.mediafire.com) is still a very good hoster (data files and pictures).

Greetings
rowi58

[sublynx]

Sorry about the trouble! I'll try using mediafire from now on...

[Plissken_04]

You can also try downloading it from here:

ftp://hartmuthaas.no-ip.org/public/Sharing/SH3COMMUNITYMODS/SUBLYNX/Lighthouses%20and%20Entrance%20Points%20for%20NYGM 3.6F%20beta.7z

Username & Password in my Signature!!!


So Long

Maik

[BigWalleye]

You can also try downloading it from here:

ftp://hartmuthaas.no-ip.org/public/Sharing/SH3COMMUNITYMODS/SUBLYNX/Lighthouses%20and%20Entrance%20Points%20for%20NYGM 3.6F%20beta.7z

Username & Password in my Signature!!!


So Long

Maik

Maik, you are faster than a speeding bullet. And your site is more powerful than a locomotive!

[sublynx]

For those of you having trouble with FTP, you can try if this link works (I'm a mediafire - file sharing noob):

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/wewlu658odmye/sublynx

[BigWalleye]

For those of you having trouble with FTP, you can try if this link works (I'm a mediafire - file sharing noob):

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/wewlu658odmye/sublynx

@sublynx, how do I remove the sub symbol from the nav map?

[sublynx]

You make the tga of the boat invisible (delete everything from the tga) and then you mod the map in ways I've forgotten about. I don't remember all the steps anymore, but you'll get the idea from this minimod:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/vl1flv6m6efvbd7/hide_VIIc.7z

This mod hides type VIIc U-boats (which is my current boat, probably until the end of the war, if i ever make it that far :ping:)

[Plissken_04]

Maik, you are faster than a speeding bullet. And your site is more powerful than a locomotive!


I know,but thanks for your kind words :salute:


So Long

Maik

[JeromeHeretic]

Look to this thread: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=193974

Problem is, that i don't know how to paint lighthouses to the map.
In my project is about 2000 lighthouses and lightships around whole world, so some map addons in chart view is unusable. I need somehow paint marks for lighthouses to .raw map file, but i don't know how.

[Fahnenbohn]

Hey Sublynx !

Have you finished your mod with lighthouses ? Is it possible now to sail without your U-Boot's mark on the nav map ??

F.

[sublynx]

Lately my interests have been in other games so I haven't done any modding lately.

Taking your u-boat off the navigation map is very easy though. You just find the tga picture that represents your boat, open it with a picture editor and change it to transparent.

[Fahnenbohn]

Lately my interests have been in other games so I haven't done any modding lately.

Taking your u-boat off the navigation map is very easy though. You just find the tga picture that represents your boat, open it with a picture editor and change it to transparent.

Yeah, sure, but when you don't have your U-Boot's mark on the map anymore, I guess it's more difficult to orientate yourself on the vast ocean !

:DL