Russian military planes 'disrupted UK aviation'

[Jimbuna]

I suppose Putin has to do something to convince the people back in Russia he is retaliating or fighting back at the west and the sanctions.

Russian military planes flying near UK airspace caused "disruption to civil aviation" on Wednesday, the Foreign Office has said.

It said the two Russian planes did not enter UK airspace, but the manoeuvres were "part of an increasing pattern of out-of-area operations" by Russia.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31049952

[ikalugin]

I don't think that we cover this much.

[Jimbuna]

Possibly closer to the truth :hmmm:

A spokesman for the Civil Aviation Authority, which regulates aviation, said he was "not sure where this idea has come from" that there had been disruption to civil aviation.

He suggested it may have been the two British Typhoons which caused any disruption as they may have flown through airspace near Bournemouth, southern England, where there is a small civilian airport.

"It was probably two Typhoons that were scrambled to intercept that caused some disruption," he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/britain-summons-russian-ambassador-bombers-intercepted-183747141.html

[ikalugin]

So maybe we are not all that evil after all.

[Schroeder]

So maybe we are not all that evil after all.
But your aircraft were the reason the Typhoons had to scramble in the first place. So it's not that easy.;)
Though I also don't consider it to be "evil". Stuff like that happens frequently on both sides if my info is right.

[Oberon]

It's the first time, at least this side of 2000, that I'm aware of that Bears have gone for a channel jaunt though. Surprised they had the range for it. Quite the Tour de Britain really, down the Irish coast, through the Channel and then out into the North Sea again presumably. Although how they can go through the Straits of Dover without penetrating UK airspace is confusing.

EDIT: Ah, just read the article again, they turned back in the Channel and went back up through the Irish sea, presumably were at the edge of their operational limit.

[ikalugin]

Worst time of the year to go sight seeing around the UK though.

[STEED]

Big deal, another slow news day in the UK. :03:

[Skybird]

I really wonder what should be demonstrated, trained, proven or tested by flights like this, into such locations. In case of a big war with Russia - heavy bombers trying to survive making it to the channel..? C'mon. In wartimes, they would be intercepted far, far away from 6 mile zones - they would get shot down as early and far away as possible. Maybe even already on the Russian side of the frontline.

The Channel is not the Eastern Baltic or the North Cape.

[Schroeder]

I really wonder what should be demonstrated, trained, proven or tested by flights like this, into such locations. In case of a big war with Russia - heavy bombers trying to survive making it to the channel..? C'mon. In wartimes, they would be intercepted far, far away from 6 mile zones - they would get shot down as early and far away as possible. Maybe even already on the Russian side of the frontline.

The Channel is not the Eastern Baltic or the North Cape.
I think there are 3 reasons for that.
First is that Putin wants to show he's still there to both NATO and his own people.
Second they can clock the reaction time of NATO air defenses.
Third the bombers can have electronic reconnaissance equipment to have a look at Britain's coast or just to practice operating it in a "live environment".

[Oberon]

I think there are 3 reasons for that.
First is that Putin wants to show he's still there to both NATO and his own people.
Second they can clock the reaction time of NATO air defenses.
Third the bombers can have electronic reconnaissance equipment to have a look at Britain's coast or just to practice operating it in a "live environment".

Fourth: The public inquest into the death of Alexander Litvenenko started this week. :03:

[mapuc]

Some question

1. Did Russia/Sovjet do the same during the cold war ?

2. If yes in question 1. Has there been any changes in the way they act ?

Markus

[AndyJWest]

Some question

1. Did Russia/Sovjet do the same during the cold war ?

2. If yes in question 1. Has there been any changes in the way they act ?

Markus

1. Yes, all the time.

2. It largely stopped for a period after the fall of the Soviet Union, and has gradually climbed back up again. The degree to which this reflects changing political or military concerns is open to debate. I suspect that a lot of it is simply down to the military (east and west) liking to have something to keep themselves occupied, to (supposedly) justify their enormous budgets. Even in the darkest Cold War days, the Soviets knew their aircraft were going to be intercepted, and also knew that they would be sitting ducks if they did anything overtly warlike. It probably helped with ElInt, but terms of actual military significance, it probably amounts to little more than ceremonial display - an airborne version of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ImfIoX6zTM

[nikimcbee]

By UK Aviation, you mean the Buna Aeroplane collection right?

[Oberon]

By UK Aviation, you mean the Buna Aeroplane collection right?

Exactly, in order to get a die-cast Bear, he'll need a new cabinet which will be a disruption to the Buna Aeroplane collection.

Do they even do die-cast Tu-95s? :hmmm:

[ikalugin]

Fourth: The public inquest into the death of Alexander Litvenenko started this week. :03:
Again?

[Skybird]

I think there are 3 reasons for that.
First is that Putin wants to show he's still there to both NATO and his own people.
Second they can clock the reaction time of NATO air defenses.
Third the bombers can have electronic reconnaissance equipment to have a look at Britain's coast or just to practice operating it in a "live environment".
The first is militarily irrelevant, and two and three: well, okay in regions of operational interest - but the Channel...?

The day when under wartime conditions Russian heavy bombers the size of these planes can reach the channel (without having overrolled continental Europe first and standing in division size in Rotterdam and Calais), will be the day I will vote for saving money and dismantle NATO, for then I would know that NATO could not be trusted to get even the most obvious tasks done. :doh:

[ikalugin]

To go on a tangent, did the European defence procurement programs change with the recent events, as, if I remember it right, there was a movement in reduction of land forces.

[Skybird]

The words to do so have been said, whether they will be followed by money, remaisn to be seen. Some Eastern Europeans have raised their defence budgets for sure.

The German forces are a shadow only of their former self (cold war comparison I mean, not WWII). I currently would have more trust in the Polish army, than in ours. Serious, I do not mean that as a joke.

[ikalugin]

The words to do so have been said, whether they will be followed by money, remaisn to be seen. Some Eastern Europeans have raised their defence budgets for sure.

The German forces are a shadow only of their former self (cold war comparison I mean, not WWII). I currently would have more trust in the Polish army, than in ours. Serious, I do not mean that as a joke.
Specifics would be welcome, as we appear to keep our rearmament program going despite the economical situation.

[Jimbuna]

I really wonder what should be demonstrated, trained, proven or tested by flights like this, into such locations. In case of a big war with Russia - heavy bombers trying to survive making it to the channel..? C'mon. In wartimes, they would be intercepted far, far away from 6 mile zones - they would get shot down as early and far away as possible. Maybe even already on the Russian side of the frontline.

The Channel is not the Eastern Baltic or the North Cape.

True that but they can carry the AS-15 Kent which has a range of 3000km meaning interceptions would need to be made in a timely fashion and a long way from home shores.

[Jimbuna]

By UK Aviation, you mean the Buna Aeroplane collection right?

LOL :)

Exactly, in order to get a die-cast Bear, he'll need a new cabinet which will be a disruption to the Buna Aeroplane collection.

Do they even do die-cast Tu-95s? :hmmm:

They sure do but not in my scale (1/72) or collection theme (Post WWII British).

http://www.diecastairplane.com/store/c/8422-TU-95.html

[Skybird]

True that but they can carry the AS-15 Kent which has a range of 3000km meaning interceptions would need to be made in a timely fashion and a long way from home shores.
That is the point, there is no reason for sending heavy bombers that far into the focus of the enemy's air defence. When the Kent can be fired from 3000m away, why sending its launching platform into the Irish Sea or the Channel? If you want to disrupt shipping in the channel, you can do so by firing your Kents from even southwest of the Azores! :) For tracking low flying incoming cruise missiles, different radars are used than those by which you track high flying big bombers.

It's all theatre. Schroeder's point number one probably is the most matching explanation. Boys talk about penis lengths, autocratic state leaders compare the length of their missile hulls instead.

And Putin by now imo has become a hunted by his own policies. He cannot stop it and change his course now anymore, even if he wants. Loss of face and credibility in his people's eyes would be far too dangerous for him. This is dangerous, for it means the confrontational policy of Russia by now has become a self-dynamic that can no longer be influenced by argument and reason, but follows its own, highly riskful logic.

[Jimbuna]

The latter part of the above is what I find of most concern :yep:

[ikalugin]

And Putin by now imo has become a hunted by his own policies. He cannot stop it and change his course now anymore, even if he wants. Loss of face and credibility in his people's eyes would be far too dangerous for him. This is dangerous, for it means the confrontational policy of Russia by now has become a self-dynamic that can no longer be influenced by argument and reason, but follows its own, highly riskful logic.
I think it is more about lack of mutually acceptable terms.

[Oberon]

Again?

It's the biggest espionage thing to happen in the UK since Mr Ricin umbrella :03: The other inquiries were standard affairs, but this one is a public one, announced after the events in the Ukraine...funny that, eh? :03: Political footballs and that. :yep:

LOL :)



They sure do but not in my scale (1/72) or collection theme (Post WWII British).

http://www.diecastairplane.com/store/c/8422-TU-95.html

Nice...but at that price I could probably buy the full sized version... :haha:

[Betonov]

You all worry too much.
The Russians aren't coming.

Although, a rearnement in Europe would be good for the economy. More employment and domestic production :hmmm:

I always wanted to work in a weapons factory....


THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Oberon]

THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good film that. :yep:

[Betonov]

Good film that. :yep:

The one about a Russian submarine ??
I really should watch it one day.

[Oberon]

The one about a Russian submarine ??
I really should watch it one day.

Definitely, it's funny. :yep:

[Jimbuna]

Nice...but at that price I could probably buy the full sized version... :haha:

Give it another decade at most and you probably will :)

[Catfish]

Regarding "The russians are coming"
Definitely, it's funny. :yep:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEWWRbn4zG0

:haha:

And also here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=782WGH9X5eU