My father was a member in the Hitlerjugend

[mapuc]

In Denmark it is a tradition that every 40 years a family tree is made and some genealogist get the job to make this tree

Last time such family tree was made, who was for about 40 years ago and there was not so much about my father, just where he was born and who was his mom.

This genealogist has made a deeper investigation about my father

He found out that my father was a member of this organization

You know it comes as no surprise
He was born in the beginning of the 30's in northern Germany and it was so to say a must to join

If I remember my history correct almost every child over a given age joined this organization

I also remember my father telling me that some of his cousins was in the Kriegsmarine(Graf spee If I remember correctly), Luftwaffe(no pilot)

Markus

[Betonov]

my parents were Titos pioneers (like a Titojugend in Yugoslavia) and that doesn't make me a communist.

Interesting find, don't think it makes your family bad. They were all involuntarily signed into such organizations.

[mapuc]

my parents were Titos pioneers (like a Titojugend in Yugoslavia) and that doesn't make me a communist.

Interesting find, don't think it makes your family bad. They were all involuntarily signed into such organizations.

Same here doesn't make me a nazist.

They were all...

That was what I said to my mother. I also said

"Remember he was not a grown-up so some one has.."

Said that this Hitlerjugend was some kind of ideological scout movement.

Markus

[Dan D]

That is disgusting, please contact the nearest Center for the Documentation of Nazi crimes in you area as soon as possible.

[mapuc]

That is disgusting, please contact the nearest Center for the Documentation of Nazi crimes in you area as soon as possible.

He was about 10-12 years old when the war ended, so I wonder how much war crime he could have committed.

Markus

[flostt]

That is disgusting, please contact the nearest Center for the Documentation of Nazi crimes in you area as soon as possible.


either you are trying to be sarcastic... or i don't understand your sense of humor :o

i actually find your comment quite disgusting as mapuc cannot really be blamed for this, can he ?

There is a difference between the "jugend" and all the other "organisations" during this period.

[Schroeder]

either you are trying to be sarcastic... or i don't understand your sense of humor :o

i actually find your comment quite disgusting as mapuc cannot really be blamed for this, can he ?

There is a difference between the "jugend" and all the other "organisations" during this period.
It was sarcastic I'm sure. My grandfather was a member too and he was the son of a commie. They simply had to or would face big problems later when trying to find a job etc.

[vienna]

In the past, I have known a few people whose parents were in the Jugend and the story is always the same: you joined or faced scrutiny by the Reich. There should be no stigma against those who were forced, almost quite literally at gunpoint, to join. They were just kids and were at the mercy of the whims of the Reich and their families. One girl I knew had a mother who was enrolled in the Jugend. Towards the end of the war, she was stood up in front of an air raid shelter, handed a rifle and ordered to shoot any soldiers who might try to run into the shelter. She didn't have to shoot; a bomb exploded near where she was standing and blew shrapnel into her leg...

The sins of the fathers, indeed...


<O>

[Dan D]

€´Markus

I was joking. Even the former Pope was a member of the Hitler Youth at his age.

I guess, I would have been in the Hitler Youth, too, if I was born back then.

My grand-father on my Dad's side did not even have the voting age when Hitler was voted into power. It was 21 back then. Nevetherless he died at the age of 30 on the Eastern front in 1944. That gives an idea how long the Nazis ruled in Germany. He did not even have a choice.

My other grand-father joined the NSDAP in 1937 according to the records. He was a professional soldier like all his ancestors before, who had a proud tradition of being soldiers ás they had already served in the Prussian Army. I am not even sure, if my grand-father ever gained knowledge that he had become a member of the NSDAP because the Nazis just subscribed a whole list of people to them. For example, when they dissolved the Union's they made all unionists Nazi unionists. That is called "Gleichschaltung". Of course, with a bit of stomach you could have protested against that." I don't like you, give me a no nazi Unionist Membership". That would have made a difference, jk.
By asking the archives, I found out that there is a medical record from 1942 that my other grand-father was unfit for duty because he had a hockey-caused knee-injury (at Auschwitz jk). He was a hockey player. And as he was wearing the uniform of a Lieutenant zur See when he got married ,that tells me that he was with the Kriegsmarine and did the infantry training for the navy conscripts, because at peace times he was a Lieutenant in the Heer for the infantry. You have to survive those times, you know.

[Nippelspanner]

A while ago I found out that one of my grandfathers was a tank commander in the Waffen SS. Quite the shock to be honest.
It was like history would have got a grasp on me. After all, I never felt directly "connected" to WW2, yet this changes this.
I am a descendent of an absolutely convinced Nazi.

Feels weird, so I can see where you're coming from mapuc.
Although HJ wasn't anything special of course.
They just did lots of sports and learned that people who are different are sub-humans... nothing weird... :doh:

[Dan D]

It is a miracle, after 1945 all the Nazis, have you ever met one?, seemingly have vanished from earth.

[Aktungbby]

Nah! My federal office manager, a very nice Teutonic lady, was a youth for Hitler. We referred to her lovingly as 'the resident Nazi' and business went on as usual. She was notably efficient at her job...:hmmm: My schoolboy bus driver had been at Stalingrad. :up: @ Dan D: we knew you were joking! I myself was a Youth for Nixon...please no Tricky Dick comments.

[Dan D]

It was the working title that struck me: "My father was a member in the HitlerJugend". We should make it a sticky. Confess your youth follies.
You got pregnant at the age of 16? Crusty socks? KKK youth Membership? Wrong Jeans? Wrong sex?

[em2nought]

Uh oh, somebody forgot about the lack of a humor chromosome in Germans. :D

[Nippelspanner]

It was the working title that struck me: "My father was a member in the HitlerJugend". We should make it a sticky. Confess your youth follies.
You got pregnant at the age of 16? Crusty socks? KKK youth Membership? Wrong Jeans? Wrong sex?
What exactly... is the problem here?

[Dan D]

Vot iss?

[Dan D]

"Dot iss only the fusical vot I call it. Dot iss no better vass de animals, no?
Now I vill explain you vy. Vot is luff? It iss nodding. How long will it last? Two weeks? Vot iss dot? I call luff vot iss de spirchel, dot vot man make to understand de voorld. Luff iss not a dog in the street vot runs around de whole day mit his nose in de air. Is it so or not? Ven two People dey luff each oder, dot iss not luff. Dot iss de fusical".
(Henry Millier- Aller Retour New York)

[Kaptlt.Endrass]

Interesting 'fun fact' for your family. I believe one of my dad's grandfather's brothers was at Pearl Harbor on December 7th, and a distant relative was one of the Windtalkers in the Pacific.

That said, people can't immediately assume you to be a member of today's NSDAP, or your father. We must remember that Hitler was a charasmatic leader and helped Germany rebuild after war reparations. Also, all were required to join the Hitlerjugend/Wehrmact when of age or as the Russians closed in.

While I think Hitler had some good ideas, his way of carrying them out were...extreme. We have to look at it from an oppresed, post-WWI, German point of view, not as the victors only. 'History is written by the victor.' ring a bell?

[CCIP]

One interesting genealogical fact about my family is that I've had ancestors on polar opposite sides of the Communist revolution and the Tsarist/Soviet regimes. On the one hand, I'm a direct descendant of the Russian Oldenburgs (who were effectively the same family as the Romanovs) and among my lineage are surnames like Kestner (courtiers for Alexander II and, prior to that, wealthy German nobility) and Smelovski (an old Russian/Polish noble house). On the other hand, one of my great-great-grandfathers was a deputy of Dzerzhinski (founder of the Cheka, the Soviet secret police), and another had held two trade ministry posts before being denounced and repressed in the 30s (though by miracle, he survived and was later partially rehabilitated). A few years ago I found out that one of my grandfathers was also a KGB informant on Soviet merchant ships in his youth.

That said, I don't particularly feel personal guilt for any of it - it's part of my history and, perhaps ironically but more so appropriately, the different sides of my family all suffered from the other side's actions. And I certainly have not directly benefitted from any of their less savoury actions. Ironically, some were lucky to have died when they did - I know that if at least 3 different ancestors of mine had lived past the 1920s, I probably would never have been born (because their families would have been purged with them). For me, nothing says more than the fact that I'm virtually equal parts Russian, German and Finnish in my heritage - if we look at old bitterness and injustices and take it out on the descendants of the perpetrators, what am I supposed to do? Hate myself? :O:

[CCIP]

I'd also caution against falling for the "oppressed" point of view, because that's been shown many times to have been a political myth - which was not even invented by the Nazis at all, but merely co-opted from the likes of Hindenburg. The idea of a terrible victors' peace and burdens of defeat is a psychological construct, not a socioeconomic fact, and most of Germany's real socioeconomic problems of the 20s were of their own making, exacerbated by a world war they could not have afforded but tried anyway. But it was easier to shift the blame. Hitler rode into power not on the genius of his ideas, but on co-opting a fallacious propaganda maneuver of nationalist conservatives covering their own faults in WWI, and on the coat-tails of an already-recovering German economy that his regime deserves no real credit for. So I really don't see any need for apologetics there.

[Betonov]

Name one.

Shooting himself in 1945.

And providing employment for Germans and business for German companies by preparing for war. It was a good idea until september 1939.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Said that this Hitlerjugend was some kind of ideological scout movement.


Given the choice of learning knots and sewing on buttons for a badge or manning a AAA site shooting down (attempting to, at least) enemy aircraft at the age of 11 I know which I would choose. Every time, add highlighting the family for trouble, and the naivety from politics, brutality, and every other negative ideal and that just reaffirms it.

That said, I don't know what other jobs the youths did. They may sway me away. But on the surface, I would have joined. That doesn't make me, my family, and especially my children Nazis. Unless Gudrun Himmler was my daughter, was was just a Nazi through and through.

[Sailor Steve]

Name one.
Providing money to get Mercedes and Auto Union involved in Grand Prix racing in 1934.

[kranz]

Name one.
I'm joining the competition.
Bear in mind, Tribesman holds SEVERAL diplomas (some might be even genuine) so I'm pretty sure he will choose the most accurate answer.

Highways in Poland - we've been using them ever since.

[Oberon]

It is a miracle, after 1945 all the Nazis, have you ever met one?, seemingly have vanished from earth.

They went to the moon:

http://thegaminggang.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/ironsky2.jpg

[Schroeder]

Given the choice of learning knots and sewing on buttons for a badge or manning a AAA site shooting down (attempting to, at least) enemy aircraft at the age of 11 I know which I would choose. Every time, add highlighting the family for trouble, and the naivety from politics, brutality, and every other negative ideal and that just reaffirms it.

That said, I don't know what other jobs the youths did. They may sway me away. But on the surface, I would have joined. That doesn't make me, my family, and especially my children Nazis. Unless Gudrun Himmler was my daughter, was was just a Nazi through and through.
There were lots of different branches. My grandfather for example started in the motorcycle HJ where they could ride actual small cc motorcycles (who could afford that for their children back then?). But he disliked some of the people there so he went to the "flying HJ" and flew SG38 gliders. Again who could afford flying in the 30ies? So in addition to the pressure by the authorities the kids were also definitely motivated to join as they could do things there which were usually way out of their parent's income.

[Sailor Steve]

Yes German motor manufacturers didn't do grand prix racing before hitler.
!934 gave them their best years results in grand prix since their 1931 performance.
I didn't say they did. You asked for one good idea he had. Providing money to those two manufacturers was a good idea. Even if it didn't originate with him, he followed through, making it a good idea he had.

Your serve.

[vanjast]

Your serve. Ahh!! Tennis, the only game where LOVE means nothing.

AFAIK there was an old man living in the Karoo (semi arid desert over here), who was a member of the SS.
I heard that he still had his uniform in prestine condition. I haven't followed up on this though, but it would an interesting story if he told it.
This was years ago.. so don't now if he's still alive. :)

[Sailor Steve]

So you consider government subsidies for a manufacturers vanity projects a good idea?
If it helps the country and the people, yes. In that time and place it did.

[Betonov]

Grand prix's never a bad idea.
Gives the masses something to unwind. And the manufacturers to invent something new.

[Oberon]

Bread and Circuses. Quite the reversal of the later comments by Goering about guns and butter...although it's always puzzled me how long it took the German industry to switch into wartime mode. I doubt it would have helped them much more if it had switched earlier, certainly might have increased internal pressures, but the odds might have been a smidge more in Germanys favour when it came to Barbarossa, at least for the first year and a half.

I sometimes look at the HJ knife I have and I ponder its story, who owned it, what happened to them. Pretty sure they were in either the African theatre in 42-43 or the invasion of France in 1940, and they became a British POW, but that's about all I could guess based upon what I know of my great-grandfathers activities in WWII. :hmmm:

[Sailor Steve]

It would have helped the people and the industry if he wasn't arresting or causing to flee all the Jewish and other "degenerate" engineers and designers in the german auto industry during 33/34.

Throwing money at auto racing while arresting or exiling leading contributors to the business is by no measure a good idea.
Fair point. :sunny:

[Cybermat47]

You got pregnant at the age of 16?

I was pregnant at 16, myself.

The thing is, I'm a 15 year old Male virgin, so I'm not sure how it happened.

[jacobston]

I was pregnant at 16, myself.

The thing is, I'm a 15 year old Male virgin, so I'm not sure how it happened.

Time travel can be a fickle mistress...

[kranz]

Autobahn projects, planned by the weimar republic.
planned by the weimar republic, executed by the nazis.
Burleigh calls them 'Hitler's autobahns'.

[Betonov]

is inspiring Chaplin to do ''The great dictator'' a good idea ??

[Penguin]

I guess, I would have been in the Hitler Youth, too, if I was born back then.


Well, I'm glad in my town we had the choice to join the Edelweiß- or Kittelbachpiraten. :smug:


my other grand-father was unfit for duty because he had a hockey-caused knee-injury (at Auschwitz jk).

That's inapropriate: My grandfather died in Auschwitz






- he was hit by a hockey puck while drinking in the guard tower. :88)

[Penguin]

planned by the weimar republic, executed by the nazis.
Burleigh calls them 'Hitler's autobahns'.

"Hitler's Autobahnen" falls into the same category as "Polish death camps."

[Oberon]

https://33.media.tumblr.com/4d0deeb50302f2ab6f76f3b041b673ad/tumblr_mr90rfwTDy1sy769zo9_400.gif

https://38.media.tumblr.com/54f82a0e6de98e5b442f17856aed7552/tumblr_mr90rfwTDy1sy769zo4_400.gif

[mapuc]

Thank you for your response

First of all, I'm no way ashame of my father. He is not here anymore(died 2003)

As I mentioned before it came as no surprise for me.

He was born around Flensburg 33 or 34. I know who's my Grandmother but our real Grandfather is unknown. (Have been told she had a short love affairs before my father was born)

And when you was about a given age you became a member of Hitlerjugend either by birth or by some grown-up sign you up.

This thread has also taken a little detour and the discussion about Hitler, if he was good for Germany or not.

For us living so many years after, even those living in Germany, it can be really hard to understand why many of the ordinary German voted for Hitler.

Markus

[Betonov]

For us living so many years after, even those living in Germany, it can be really hard to understand why many of the ordinary German voted for Hitler.



He was charismatic. He talked about a new Germany when Germany was getting back in it's feet quite nicely. Unfortunately an average voter would put these two things together.

He had a plotted course trough a straight and he convinced the people he was the navigator and should be the captain. He then ran aground after exiting those straights

[mapuc]

He was charismatic. He talked about a new Germany when Germany was getting back in it's feet quite nicely. Unfortunately an average voter would put these two things together.

He had a plotted course trough a straight and he convinced the people he was the navigator and should be the captain. He then ran aground after exiting those straights

True.
I think one have to look at many different factors like the economy to why many German voted for Hitler.

I remember a sequence from a documentary sent on Danish TV many years ago(Hitler the Attawolf)

The speaker said that many German had an icon of Hitler and was praying to him every night.

That shocked me. I knew that many saw him as a Saviour but as a God !?

Markus

[Oberon]

Look at people voting for groups like UKIP and the FN in France, it's all part of fear and promises. :hmmm:

[Betonov]

That shocked me. I knew that many saw him as a Saviour but as a God !?



I know of cases when people prayed to Tito in Yugoslavia.
He always discouraged such behavior, but if you ask me, he enjoyed it.

[Betonov]

Look at people voting for groups like UKIP and the FN in France, it's all part of fear and promises. :hmmm:

Yeah, that UKIP worries me, since I have a plan to move to the UK.

[mapuc]

Look at people voting for groups like UKIP and the FN in France, it's all part of fear and promises. :hmmm:

Fear indeed and todays terror in France is a welcome water to their...

Markus

[Oberon]

Fear indeed and todays terror in France is a welcome water to their...

Markus

All forms of extremists thrive on fear. :yep: The more we're scared, the more they can exploit us.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Yeah, that UKIP worries me, since I have a plan to move to the UK.

It's OK, I have a plan for you. You simply have to put yourself up as a UKIP councillor. Or marry Nigel Farage, but that post is currently occupied by a German.

No need to thank me. :D

[Betonov]

I'll just look for work in the north.
It seems things will be quieter there

[ikalugin]

Interesting to see that there are other people of noble Russian origin in this forum, the world is such a small place.
http://www.grwar.ru/persons/persons.html?id=1225&PHPSESSID=1735a4debf04b0a36c5d36d5f20fa803
(one of my ancestors - his grandfather I think was a soldier, a peasant in youth, who received his plot of land due to exceptional service. He then married with a far older family of officers)
My family for some time (since around 19th century, before some of the roots could be found as far as Italy) served Russian empire (and then the USSR and now Russian Federation) as non landed specialists (officers and civil servants). It is interesting to see how they have persisted, even though repressed and prosecuted during their service to the country (be that by Polish peasants going after the family or them being executed during the purges).

[Cybermat47]

That's inapropriate: My grandfather died in Auschwitz






- he was hit by a hockey puck while drinking in the guard tower. :88)

:har:

[Matador.es]

In the past few years my perspective has changed a lot concerning "former enemy" of Nazi Germany. It is the winner who writes history (Churchill).

Last year i was in Normandy, when on route to Collevile-sur-Mer (American Cemetery) we passed along a very small German Cemetery. It makes you think.

Recently i saw "Unsere Mütter, unsere väter" also known as "Our mothers, our fathers" or "Generation War". I can recommend it to all who play any Silent Hunter game (or alike), since one way or the other, "we" all play with history.

After having seen that, what can we say about choices

[Betonov]

Since we're talking about hitler :doh:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anophthalmus_hitleri

[kranz]

So what?
Someone already posted a link, read the 5th source there on the myth of hitlers autobahns.
right. I quoted Burleigh with a naive supposition that you have finally stopped 'studying' history from blogs and feature films. Apparently, I was wrong.

My family for some time (since around 19th century, before some of the roots could be found as far as Italy) served Russian empire (and then the USSR and now Russian Federation) as non landed specialists (officers and civil servants). It is interesting to see how they have persisted, even though repressed and prosecuted during their service to the country (be that by Polish peasants going after the family or them being executed during the purges).
so much butthurt...
Polish peasants usually cultivate Polish land. What were your relatives doing on the Polish land around the 19th century and later (up to 1989/90).
Taking part in the Partitions?
The War of 1920?
The backstab in September 1939?
The liberation of Poland since 1944 with rapes and murders of innocent people?
The communist times with persecuting of ex-guerrillas and their families?

a 'noble' family I must say.

[Schroeder]

Since we're talking about hitler :doh:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anophthalmus_hitleri
That would be worth an entry in Cybermats "I never knew that" thread.:doh:

[Betonov]

That would be worth an entry in Cybermats "I never knew that" thread.:doh:

You're right :up:

[Jimbuna]

Stay on topic if we'd all be so kind, lest this thread be shunted into a siding.

TIA

[ikalugin]

so much butthurt...
Polish peasants usually cultivate Polish land. What were your relatives doing on the Polish land around the 19th century and later (up to 1989/90).
Taking part in the Partitions?
The War of 1920?
The backstab in September 1939?
The liberation of Poland since 1944 with rapes and murders of innocent people?
The communist times with persecuting of ex-guerrillas and their families?

a 'noble' family I must say.
Well after that point we went to serve Russian Empire/USSR/Russia, which is not a bad thing. The only real damage that was done - was the destruction of documents (due to the estate being pillage and burned down by the peasantry with the wife and kids having to flee, which I think was the last drop that forced our family to serve Russian Empire), due to which we lost the Prince (Князь) title and had to do with Count (Граф) one. So sad it was.

They were there before partition and when it occurred went from Polish service into Imperial Russian service. As they were from further west they did not have any pro Russian bias pre partition. However, to answer your questions:
- No. They were caught in the events, as their original intention (as the western military specialists) was to serve in the Poland-Lithuania, which was not possible due to partitions (hence they swore fealty to Russian Empire).
- No. Boris Stolbin had a desk job at the Artillery directorate at the time. Others did not serve any posts of note and as far as I am aware did not participate in the 1920 war.
- No. I won't argue with your classification of 1939 events (as USSR did not have any substantial alliance obligations with Poland thus making a "back stab" not possible, however my ancestors were either dead (Stolbin was executed in 1937 purges) or were serving in Caucasus area or were serving in Black Sea and Northern Fleets.
- No. They were either fighting down south or up north and not in Poland.
- No. None worked for the state security agencies. I would note that your view here appears to be somewhat biased as it is in the previous point.

[mapuc]

My family is very complicated

The first years of my father, my Grandma was alone with him, living on help from her family.

About 1½ years after my father birth, my grandma found a danish man and they got married. This man became my(step)grandfather(which I first learned when I was grown-up) This man was born i Denmark by a Russian mother and a Polish father.

The family on my Grandma side fought on the german side during the WWII
many in my (step)Grandfathers family fought on the allied side some in Russia.
and some for Germany.

In the town where my mom was born, who was a very little town with about 50 habitant most of them went into the war on either the allied side or the german side.

I think that this is a common thing in a war-there is always people from other countries that seeks adventure in a war, on one of the fighting parts.

Markus

[mapuc]

It is on topic.
Kranz used Hitler's Autobahns.
His source uses 'Hitler's autobahns'
See the difference. "Autobahns" were too 'Jewish'
Its the same as his use of 'idiots' in relation to euthanasia and 'degenerates' in relation to 're-education'.
The author uses the method to illustrate Nazi propaganda.

So further on topic, someone claimed Hitler had good ideas, the closest so far is that Hitler shot himself. That would be a winner if Hitler had done it in 1918 rather than 1945

Now yes, we agree on how evil he was but then. in the beginning of the 30's and during the 30's and the first half of the war.

Why did people vote for Hitler and the nazi-party ?

In Sweden and in Denmark, Hitler and the naziparty was the greatest thing that had happen to the world according to most of the politician at that time era.

What is (un)known is that some of the top people from the nazi parties was invented to some of the Swedish politicans Annual General Meeting in the middle and the end of the 30's
( remember when this was revealed on a newsprogram, it shocked us)

Markus

[Oberon]

Well after that point we went to serve Russian Empire/USSR/Russia, which is not a bad thing.

Mine left, went to work in London at a sugar factory as a gas stoker and changed their surname from Kubilus to Cook to fit in with the English landscape.

And in regards to the Nazis rise to power...well, Tommy made a good point:

https://38.media.tumblr.com/0013e762e69b4ee4ae637f46a6c726e5/tumblr_mw6rig1w9A1r3brqpo1_500.gif

[Dan D]

He was charismatic. He talked about a new Germany when Germany was getting back in it's feet quite nicely. Unfortunately an average voter would put these two things together.

He had a plotted course trough a straight and he convinced the people he was the navigator and should be the captain. He then ran aground after exiting those straights

Yea indeed, from whati I heard. My religiuos education teacher who was old when she told me that when she and her comrades from the "Bund Deutscher Mädchen(BDM), "frisch , fromm fröhlich ,frei", I can't translate that, too naughty, heard about Hitler's death, the German Fräuleins were crying all night and they folded A.H. Pictures smalll to hide them in their shoes. I guess that means that Hitler was a pop-star back then. That amount of hystery and adoration you will later find only with with Elvis Presley, The Rolling Stones, Take Back, New Kids on the Block etc.. Human nature, very weird.