Question on Silent 3ditor (S3D)

[Alfred Keitzer]

I can see all the basic components objects in the ..\data\Library\*.DAT files just fine using S3D.

Is there a way to view the complete harbor defined by the template DAT files in ..\data\terrain\locations using the Model Preview window of S3D? Displaying a harbor DAT file node, all I see are a few data points. Any way to link the "placement" objects back to the library so one can view the harbor in 3D?

[Ahnenerbe]

I can see all the basic components objects in the ..\data\Library\*.DAT files just fine using S3D.

Is there a way to view the complete harbor defined by the template DAT files in ..\data\terrain\locations using the Model Preview window of S3D? Displaying a harbor DAT file node, all I see are a few data points. Any way to link the "placement" objects back to the library so one can view the harbor in 3D?

http://i68.fastpic.ru/big/2014/0907/d4/541ca8b9c9eb24b4933189947800a5d4.jpg

[Alfred Keitzer]

Yes, I can see all the basic components objects in the Library DAT files -- am aware of the center on object button.

What I'm talking about are the "Locations" DAT files (..\data\terrain\Locations\*.DAT) that define an entire harbor. I want to be able to view the entire harbor in 3D as defined by these DAT files, but the "Location" DAT files are templates referencing the placement of Library DAT objects; not the objects themselves. Hence I cannot see the entire harbor in S3D -- most likely because S3D does not have a reference back to the location of the object DAT files in ..\data\Library.

I was wondering if there is a way to view an entire harbor as defined in the "Locations" DAT files using S3D or even some other tool. Obviously, whoever built these harbors had to have reference back to the Library DAT objects and had to be able to SEE what they were building in order to create the "Location" DAT files that define complete harbors.

Bottom line is I'm looking to take an existing harbor and modify it to create new harbors rather than starting from scratch.

[Ahnenerbe]

Yes, I can see all the basic components objects in the Library DAT files -- am aware of the center on object button.

What I'm talking about are the "Locations" DAT files (..\data\terrain\Locations\*.DAT) that define an entire harbor. I want to be able to view the entire harbor in 3D as defined by these DAT files, but the "Location" DAT files are templates referencing the placement of Library DAT objects; not the objects themselves. Hence I cannot see the entire harbor in S3D -- most likely because S3D does not have a reference back to the location of the object DAT files in ..\data\Library.

I was wondering if there is a way to view an entire harbor as defined in the "Locations" DAT files using S3D or even some other tool. Obviously, whoever built these harbors had to have reference back to the Library DAT objects and had to be able to SEE what they were building in order to create the "Location" DAT files that define complete harbors.

Bottom line is I'm looking to take an existing harbor and modify it to create new harbors rather than starting from scratch.




Other ways to view the ready-Ports and Harbours I do not know, just how to make all the points, and then launching the game to test what he did. Maybe some secrets and there, but I do not know. And the creation of facilities at ports and their location in the dat file is written to a certain port in the folder data / Terrain / Locations, where the objects are linked by id and Label files from the Library, but the advice here and I can not give, how to see where exactly I possess the object. Besides all this, in Locations.cfg must be specified geographical coordinates of the ports themselves with a specific file or multiple port you wish to use from my Locations. In addition, if it is a base, it is necessary to prescribe and campaign_LND.mis, it does not matter, it has its own database, allies or the enemy, you need to specify the time of entry into the war and out of her. In general, something like that ......
Good Luck!
++ Ahnenerbe ++

[Alfred Keitzer]

My interest is in building a more accurate Lorient base, if one does not already exist, using the available objects of the SH3 DAT Library and then positioning that base in the correct location.

I am aware that:
(a) Harbor objects are stored in DAT files located in the ..\data\Library directory
(b) Bases are built using template DAT files located in the ..\data\terrain\Locations directory, which actually reference objects in the "Library" DAT files.
(c) Base placement is based on the Campaign_LND.mis file in ..\data\Campaigns\Campaign directory

The main steps I am interested in is how one uses tools, and which tools, to get from (a) to (b).Things like:

(a) Must all the objects you want to use to build a harbor be extracted from the Library DAT files?
(b) Best tool to VISUALLY build a base using the Library DAT objects?
(c) Once you have your base built in step (b), how does one take the component parts that make up the base and implement (reference) them in a "Locations" template DAT file?This seems like the hardest part because you are not using the objects directly, but referencing them with template "placement" commands.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

[Jeff-Groves]

I can answer most of if not all of your questions. There was 1 Harbor Editor I have ever seen. That was by ref and only an Alpha and all source code has since been lost.
However, there is a way to re-work Harbors once I finish some stuff.
All programs that export 3D objects suffer from not takeing the Parent/Child position into account.
Only Pack3D can export all 3d objects in mass.
No program can export location dats and connect the objects referenced in them.
Nearing the 10 years since release? I find it amazing that it's not been cured even to this date.
We have one recourse. Decompile Pack3D, re-write the code, and create a new version of Pack3D to address the issues.
It would require a 3D program to view/adjust the exported files yes.
I may get brigged or worse but I did try to contact Mods.
:D

[Jeff-Groves]

We have the decompiled Pack3d now to work with.
Several issues may be raised as to why I decided to go this route.
1.
With release of S3D there was a dumbing down of creative modders IF S3D could not address the issues.
2.
I'm not ready to re-invent the 'wheel'. I don't have the heart nor the time to invest. I've seen what that has cost others and nearly suffered it myself.
3.
I have great respect for a Modder that goes beyound what available Tools offer. IF a way to actually view Locations dats and work the Tools I'll suggest is not good enuff? I have no problem walking away. I hate lazy people that want a simple solution.
4.
If you want anything better then I'll offer? Let me know now. I'm a known Richard and will go work on my Air Guns.

[Anvart]

Hi, Jeff.
Did you decide write your real nickname?
I hope I'm not wrong... yes, I'm not wrong ... your unique rhetorical style.
Good luck. :sunny:

P.S. IIRC, in Pack3D package there are the source files (java)... and, perhaps, decompilation would not be required... try look in RAR (JAR).

[Jeff-Groves]

The files you refer to are only the Pack3D 1 files.
We both know there's better code to work with by decompiling all the versions.
:)
If I knew Delphi better? I'd not mess with java.
:03:

[Anvart]

"Delphi better?"
RAD Delphi/C++ Builder are interesting only thanks to large library of visual components ... I think.
...
C/C++/C# - old reliable friends... :O:
...
Using the WinRAR just unpack from Pack3D.jar the files: *.java (source) and * .class (compiled)...
*** This tip just in case I don't understand you correctly. *** :haha:

[Jeff-Groves]

Use DJ Java Decompiler.
You can decompile even the .class files.
:D

Delphi is what a few Tools ref gave me source code for.
Problem is he adjusted some components that I don't have the knowledge to duplicate right now.

[Anvart]

Use DJ Java Decompiler.
You can decompile even the .class files.
:D
...
I have it. :har:
But in this case WinRAR is sufficient tool.
When I've fixed an annoying bug, I've changed the source code in *.java file and then compiled the modified file as *.class.
:haha:
**********************************************
...
Is there a way to view the complete harbor defined by the template DAT files in ..\data\terrain\locations using the Model Preview window of S3D? ...
Unfortunately there are no tools for your task...
You can only get approximate imagination of the harbor. Need, in the file of location (for example Alexandria.dat), to replace the placement-nodes onto real 3D objects from HarborKit library. The ID and coordinates of 3D objects are specified in the Placement Controllers. Then you can view the modified *.dat file in S3D... but without the landscape... I think. :woot:

[Jeff-Groves]

Alex,
Can you hook me up with someone that knows Delphi?
I have source from ref that could be used to give a visual and adjustable editor.

[Anvart]

Sorry, Jeff, i did not like pascal never... and I haven't friends who know object pascal.

[Jeff-Groves]

One could use Noesis to create a viewer/exporter if good in Python.
There was a GR2 exporter done in Noesis for SWTOR.
They changed the format then. Some Crazy Guys changed the Plugin code for Noesis to adapt.
:haha:

Sansal's Java code can be changed to do what you suggested Alex.
Read the Location dat files, exchange the Positioning data for the actual 3D stuff to create a new dat that S3D could then view.

Once changed in S3D? Reverse the process for import with the modified code.
We change 3D objects back to positional data.

Or one could start from scratch in C++ and just do a quick converter kind of like the GR2 thing some Nut Job did awhile back.
:03:

[Anvart]

I'm sorry, I didn't understand your post.
What are you writing?
Who is Nut Job?
What do you want? create a new tool for SH3 or SH5?
The problem is not relevant today... i think.
Long ago you wrote about the opportunities improve source code and realize not finished functions to S3D..? Do you got consent to this from the author (skwasjer)?
:hmmm:

[Jeff-Groves]

I'm sorry, I didn't understand your post.
What are you writing?
Who is Nut Job?
What do you want? create a new tool for SH3 or SH5?
The problem is not relevant today... i think.
Long ago you wrote about the opportunities improve source code and realize not finished functions to S3D..? Do you got consent to this from the author (skwasjer)?
:hmmm:
I am the Nut Job. Remember 1st Exporter for SH5?
New tool for SH3/4. I have no interest in SH5.
I've started a C++ project to transplant the 3D nodes into a location dat.
That could then be edited in S3D.
Reverse the process to get a corrected location dat for in Game.
One would still need to launch the Game to test but it's still far better then what is out there now.

[Anvart]

Excellent, Jeff.
Now my dull head understood you. :salute:
I remember swasjer wrote if anyone would did 3D viewer/editor better he would was happy add it to the S3D. :haha:

[Alfred Keitzer]

Like so many, I just have not been happy with Lorient as implemented in SH3. Took a little doing but I now have a new Lorient located in its more proper location. With the help of Silent 3ditor, SH3MissionEditor, pencil and paper, and my knowledge of 3D graphics, I set to work on hacking the existing Lorient files. Took the original base and pretty much deleted half of it not related to the bunkers, leaving the equivalent of Keroman I, II and III (K1, K2 and K3 in the images). It all involved six basic files ...

The bad news is making a base involves changing two of the Campaign Mission files as described below, and since every version of SH3 (NYGM, GWX, LSH3, etc.) and even some MODs can have their own version(s) of the campaign files, making this available to everyone might take some doing.

This current implementation was made using the GWX3 Basic Campaign with the "GWX 3 Wilhemshafen,St Naz,Schluese and xtra ships V7[/i]" MOD installed.

The file changes necessary were ...

-- data\Terrain\Locations\Lorient.dat -- this file actually defines the base in terms of individual components. I had to determine what needed to go and delete from this file. Not an easy task given limited tools and Ubisoft's format.
-- data\Terrain\Locations\Lorient.tga -- update the 2D base footprint shown on maps.
-- data\Terrain\Locations.cfg -- this file actually defines where the base is located.
-- data\cfg\Flotilla.cfg -- had to change the location start point and heading for Lorient. Very surprised to learn that this does NOT actually define the starting location of the U-Boat; that is done in the next file.
-- data\Campaigns\Campaign\Campaign_LND.mis -- this file includes a marker that determines where the U-Boat actually departs from.
-- data\Campaigns\Campaign\Campaign_SCR.mis -- had to reposition the AA guns and searchlights that sit on top of the bunkers as they are not part of the actual Lorient.dat file. Also had to move some anchored ships out of the way for the base and moved one of the Green channel buoys from further east to mark the center of the channel for departures and returns at night.

The base is certainly not perfect or flashy, but is totally functional for its intended use as a better Lorient.

http://prussianempire.com/KNBL1.jpg

Keroman III (K3) is the ready bunker used for departure and returns at Lorient.

http://prussianempire.com/KNBL2.jpg

Keroman I and II (K1 and K2) are land-based bunkers used for inspecting the U-Boats once hauled out of the water. At center is the bunker of Keroman I where U-Boats were placed on a cradle and hoisted up to the rail system that moved the U-Boat into one of the land-based bunkers for dry-dock inspection.

A decent video on the Keroman bunkers and how it all worked -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvx4EIEQkKo -- starting about 20 minutes into the video.

http://prussianempire.com/KNBL3.jpg

Unfortunately, I do not have the 3D software to actually finish this section of the base without a lot of time-consuming hit-or-miss guesswork. Karoman I and II should be closer together. In between was a elaborate rail system where the U-Boat (in its cradle) could be moved down the rails in front of a selected bunker and then rolled into that bunker for dry-dock inspection. As it is, I just transposed the dock people and U-Boat construction from that portion of the old Lorient base I deleted. In the old base, this section was in the water.

http://prussianempire.com/KNBL4.jpg

Looking South from behind the new Lorient base, you can see how much closer it is to the harbor entrance.

http://prussianempire.com/KNBL5.jpg

A look at the base from the west looking east.

http://prussianempire.com/KNBL6.jpg

A successful departure in a Type IXB from the new Lorient base starting in Keroman III, bunker K20.

http://prussianempire.com/KNBL7.jpg


I hope to have a version of this supporting all mission variants of GWX3 in a few weeks and one that supports GWX3 with "GWX 3 Wilhemshafen,St Naz,Schluese and xtra ships V7" shortly thereafter.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Nice work :yep: