Ship Drifts Off Course

[Zosimus]

My ship often drifts off course, especially in high winds. I have talked to my navigator and helmsman until I'm blue in the face, but they still do not keep an eye on the compass. Is there any easy solution to keeping the ship going on the last heading I called?

[Jaystew]

Realism, it's such a bitch lol jk.

I have no idea how to fix that.

[vanjast]

Time Compression (TC) <= 128x

[Zosimus]

The ship drifts off course with TC 64.

[scott_c2911]

Its called leeway to let everyone know. The old sailing ships took it into account when navigating. When you plot a course the navigator sets a small amount of port or starboard rudder to compensate for it in game. If you just point your sub at heading 090 for example and say rudder amidships it will not be pointing at 090 in a few hours or so regardless of tc. This can also be attributed to the curvature of the earth modelled into the game but im not so sure about that. Sailor steve knows about plotted courses that arc across the ocean rather than a straight line but I cant remember the name for it.

[UKönig]

The more skill and experience your officers have, not to mention decorations, will help reduce incidences of lost waypoints.
When I put the new Nav Officer on, he loses his way every now and then, especially underwater at 70+ meters. I put that down to a lack of sky/star sightings.
But yeah, the more skill and decorations your crew has, the less they slip up.

[Zosimus]

Yeah I haven't been using waypoints. Normally I'm on my way to my zone and I get a hydrophone contact so I go off after the guy to sink him with the plan to resume course once I've bagged him. However, during the chase, the guys often lose their way. Rather paralleling him, they drift towards the target track. I guess what you're saying is I have to stop using waypoints to go to my patrol area because they will be needed to track and sink ships.

[desirableroasted]

The more skill and experience your officers have, not to mention decorations, will help reduce incidences of lost waypoints.
When I put the new Nav Officer on, he loses his way every now and then, especially underwater at 70+ meters. I put that down to a lack of sky/star sightings.
But yeah, the more skill and decorations your crew has, the less they slip up.

The game does not miss waypoints -- ever -- if you have set them and told the Nav Officer (whomever is standing in that post) to follow course. That is like telling the Sonarman to listen for contacts -- it is automatic.

If, on the other hand, you set a course for 120, you will eventually have to manually intervene -- always -- to keep that course. Just as if you were manually handling the sonarscope.

BTW, not sure what you mean by "Nav Officer" -- any officer will fill that post 100%, no matter their decorations or experience. Also, the little sextant device -- the "helmsman" qualifcation? Utterly useless; it was never programed into the game.

[desirableroasted]

However, during the chase, the guys often lose their way. Rather paralleling him, they drift towards the target track. I guess what you're saying is I have to stop using waypoints to go to my patrol area because they will be needed to track and sink ships.

They are not drifting toward the target track; that's just coincidence.

Most experienced captains will write and rewrite their waypoints many, many times on a patrol. Waypoints are just a way of telling your officers where you want to go now, until something comes up and you tell them something different.

[UKönig]

Well, maybe your crew doesn't get lost, but perhaps you could speak to mine? Because under the right circumstances, my nav officer will make us turn circles. It happens (mostly, not always) when running time compression (any speed). If I have been "underwater" for hours and if we are at any depth over 70 meters, we will suddenly start turning circles, going nowhere. Like he's looking for his lost keys. I either have to erase the offending waypoint and tell them to resume set course, or pick up and reset the waypoint to bring things back into alignment.
That to me sounds like losing a waypoint. Either that, or my navigator is an idiot who lied on his resume.
And then I have had an awesome crew, who rarely gets lost even at 150m down. I know I can leave the TC on to 64 or 128 and go do something else and I trust that they won't mess things up.

[desirableroasted]

Well, maybe your crew doesn't get lost, but perhaps you could speak to mine? Because under the right circumstances, my nav officer will make us turn circles. .

If your waypoints are close together (like 3-5 boat lengths) at hard angles, that *can* happen.. the AI (sort of like your GPS if you park at the house next door) can freak out. But on a normal voyage, at normal speeds... no.

[Sailor Steve]

Its called leeway to let everyone know. The old sailing ships took it into account when navigating. When you plot a course the navigator sets a small amount of port or starboard rudder to compensate for it in game. If you just point your sub at heading 090 for example and say rudder amidships it will not be pointing at 090 in a few hours or so regardless of tc. This can also be attributed to the curvature of the earth modelled into the game but im not so sure about that. Sailor steve knows about plotted courses that arc across the ocean rather than a straight line but I cant remember the name for it.
Actually I have to disagree completely. In the game if you use waypoints the sub will hold its course, which is not realistic, or the navigator wouldn't have to take a position fix every day. On the other hand, if you just set a heading and let the boat go, it will not only drift off course but drift off heading, which is highly unrealistic. In real life the helmsman will hold his heading, or you'll replace him with a helmsman who can. The heading should never wander. If you set your heading for 300 degrees, the boat should stay on that heading. That it doesn't isn't realistic - it is a game bug.

Real Life: You tell the helmsman to hold a heading. He does. If the boat drifts off course because of winds or currents your next fix will find you not where you expected, but you will still be on the same heading. You would then plot a new course and give the helmsman the new heading, and he would hold that one until told otherwise.

The Game: You tell the helmsman to hold a heading. He falls asleep at the helm and your heading wanders all over the place. If you ignore it long enough you might find yourself on the opposite heading. This is not even a tiny bit realistic. It is a bug. Plotting waypoints is the only way to insure that your boat will hold its heading. Unfortunately plotting waypoints also guarantees a perfect course every time. The alternative is to give the helmsman a heading and then correct it constantly, essentially conning the boat yourself. Both ways are less than desirable.

[scott_c2911]

I honestly thought it was a way of simulating weather effects on navigation but what sailor steve has said above does make sense. Even where leeway was concerned the ships held their headings and rather crabbed sideways across the seas. The effect isnt as dramatic as that and the difference is only a few degrees but when sailing across an ocean it could mean that the sailors landfall could be out by hundreds of miles. It must be a bug. Thanks sailor steve for helping me out

[vanjast]

The ship drifts off course with TC 64.
A TC=128 is just manageable if you're sailing on Real Nav. Not too much drift and plenty time to correct.
:)

[Jaystew]

Weather should not affect the compass.

[Pisces]

The helmsman seems to go out for a coffee or something when he is near the commanded heading. And doesn't keep his hands on the rudder wheel until you tell him to stear to a different heading. Bug or lack of realism, I don't know what Ubisoft was thinking. Wrong for sure.

The only way to avoid this wandering of heading (likely due to numerical integration steps adding up small errors in to big ones over time) is to use waypoint placed far away on the map (on land if need be). So the helmsman won't ever be able to home into the waypoint location, but still keeps tracking the heading to it.

I remember people have tested if the boat is drifted of course by wind/weather. I don't know who any more, too long ago. But it was here in the forums for sure. It didn't seem to correlate with wind speeds and direction. There are no currents in the SH3 world (atleast not in the mission editor) so that can't be a reason either.

Maybe this can be corrected with some hardcode fixes to the sh3.exe.

[UKönig]

I never really considered a wandering watch as a "bug", more of an annoyance. I like to think its because Ubisoft wants you to pay attention to your sub and crew. That is, don't just put everything on "automatic" and go wash your car or make a sandwich, or pay the bills. It's like being the captain, in that, now you have to supervise and monitor the actions of your officers and crew. Just as in real life, people make mistakes. Even highly trained servicemen(women) can mess things up in the right situations. Maybe that's their attempt to program the concept of "nobody's perfect" :)

[Zosimus]

My normal routine: I get a hydrophone contact and proceed toward the ship submerged at flank. When I get the second hydrophone contact I realize that the ship is heading 50º Port or heading 310º give or take. Mindful of the problems with the wandering ships, I use a waypoint to take me on my calculated intercept course. Awhile later I get "ship spotted" and my watch officer informs me that the ship is 4200m and closing. Since I consider this range to be perilously close and an unacceptable risk of detection, I call "Back slow" and start to try to figure out the ship's speed, exact trajectory, range, etc.

Meanwhile my fine navigator and helmsman go hard port, and start slowly backing toward the waypoint. Before I can measure the ship's speed it starts to zigzag. :/\\!!

Is there no better solution to wandering ships than waypoints?

[Pistoliero]

Another thing about drift I noticed- when my uboat is submerged at 140-160+ depth, sometimes it can't follow plotted course and start to circulate instead.
Is it proper behaviour of deeply submerged sub or some bug?

[desirableroasted]

I call "Back slow" and start to try to figure out the ship's speed, exact trajectory, range, etc.

Meanwhile my fine navigator and helmsman go hard port, and start slowly backing toward the waypoint. Before I can measure the ship's speed it starts to zigzag. :/\\!!

Is there no better solution to wandering ships than waypoints?

Your helmsman is just doing what you told him to do. When you order him to go to Point A, he will try to carry out that order until you override it. By telling him "back slow", you have not overridden it... you have only told him to get there in reverse.

To override, you need to either set a new course, or set your rudder.

[UKönig]

Another thing about drift I noticed- when my uboat is submerged at 140-160+ depth, sometimes it can't follow plotted course and start to circulate instead.
Is it proper behaviour of deeply submerged sub or some bug?

This is exactly what happens to me. The more skilled my Navigator is, the less likely he makes mistakes, but, every so often, when at 140m+, he loses his way and starts turning in circles, our U-boat now a dog chasing its tail.

When on the surface, with regular navigational fixes, they don't get lost, and can in fact, be trusted to follow any course I plot for them, no matter how twisty.

[Pisces]

...
Meanwhile my fine navigator and helmsman go hard port, and start slowly backing toward the waypoint. Before I can measure the ship's speed it starts to zigzag. :/\\!!

Is there no better solution to wandering ships than waypoints?Nothing wrong with waypoints in itself, just with where you place them. My previous message suggest to place them far away, with the intent of never reaching it. Using the compass icon on the waypoint mousecursor (I hope your mods provide similar functionality as this. (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=3704)) you can set the waypoint track to the intended intercept course.

[goosechase]

Hi everybody, I know I'm a little late in joining this discussion but I'm new to the game and I'm having trouble with going round in circles (I'm using GWX 3.0)
When I plot a course and reach a waypoint the ship just starts going round in circles, I assumed this was a bug and I was going to make a new thread but found this one after searching.
I have experimented with time compression and the distance between waypoints/sharpness of turn and nothing has seemed to work. I'm new to the game and this practically renders it unplayable so you can imagine how it's giving me that sinking feeling lol. Is there a general consensus on how to fix/avoid this problem? It's killing me:/\\!!
PS: I'm only playing on 34% realism (noob)

to expand a little I don't really want to set far away waypoints for example: In the happy times single mission I go ahead and devastate the convoy with an attack then dive down deep and plot a course to turn around(to avoid the depth charging and shake off the escorts), head back out of the area, turn around again and come back towards the convoy (to surface and check for any wounded and stationary ships to finish off) The course is supposed to take two hours to complete (silent running) and I intend to sit back and soak up the tension of being depth charged for an hour or so. However I reach a waypoint and round and round I go.
It's worth noting I'm not doing 180 degree turns and I'm not putting waypoints super close together and like I said, I have experimented but ALWAYS go round in circles. I don't want to start a campaign until I know I can plot a course and don't have to worry. Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Pisces]

How much time compression you use in those events? I have hardly ever experienced going around in circles after reaching a waypoint. Most of the time the nearest waypoint gets flushed and it steers to the next one.

[goosechase]

Thank you for the response. :D I thought at first that time compression was the problem. Problem occurs at 1:1 as well as at faster speeds (I don't remember exactly) x32 and x64 etc.

Also i have noticed my boat is turning the opposite way so say, for example I plot a course and when I reach the first waypoint I need to turn to my port side to head for the second waypoint; my boat will start turning to starboard and proceed to turn to starboard indefinately.

[goosechase]

OK I have discovered that this only happens in the single missions not in the main campaign. Still strange though. Suppose I'll just have to jump straight in at the deep end!:rock:

[banryu79]

Thank you for the response. :D I thought at first that time compression was the problem. Problem occurs at 1:1 as well as at faster speeds (I don't remember exactly) x32 and x64 etc.

Also i have noticed my boat is turning the opposite way so say, for example I plot a course and when I reach the first waypoint I need to turn to my port side to head for the second waypoint; my boat will start turning to starboard and proceed to turn to starboard indefinately.
Why not to post a screenshot of you Navmap showing your waypoints?
An image it's worth a thousand words, expecially sorting out an issue like that...