Help absolute beginner with sub interior creation

[Pistitom]

Hey guys, since there's no ,or very little chance of a modern day submarine game SH5 style, I started wondering about creating new interiors for these awesome cold war/modern day submarine mods. Played through SH3, SH5, so want to try sg. new ( DW proved to be too much of a challenge :D:D:D )
So, I've never done anything related to 3D modelling nor textures, mip-map, render etc, and other alien things, so, need a little help here...with the basics, some tutorials, video, or pdf, etc...
I guess 3ds max (or sg. else ) and photoshop are necessary :)?
thank You all in advance for any info, help on this.
This will be the rabbit's hole for me.
cheers
:salute:

[Snarf]

Wings 3d is free (3d modeling), Gimp 2 (photoshop) is free also. If you have pictures of the interiors you can put the picture into wings 3d and start building all the bits to the picture, but it needs to be a direct view of what you want to build. I am building a useable in game Phalanx CIWS from scratch using said method. An interior will take a rediculous amount of time, but it certainly is doable. BTW you just have to start, immersion and youtube videos are the best way to learn this 3d software, once you start getting a feel for how the commands work it will start getting easier. The texture files are created with Wings 3d, then you add your patterns and colors to that file with Gimp. You will also need Silent 3ditor to import the model into a .dat file, and create your .sim .zon and .cam files.

[Pistitom]

Thank You, I'll try this wings 3d, looks a bit easier than 3dsmax. As for the pictures, well, 100% historical accuracy is obviously out of the question, but I'm curious as to how far I can get with this. After seeing all those mods, it seems nothing is impossible. Anyway, I'll have to start with the basics...I don't want to put some two dimensional panels together and call it a command center, so there's lot of studying ahead :-)
Thank You again
cheers

[Pistitom]

the very first thing....should've chosen sg. easier...:D
1029
http://http://postimg.org/image/55ypaux31/

[Pistitom]

Guys, I can't get around the torpedo tubes, I'm trying to do a Borei class, just to learn the wings 3d ( I stopped the Skipjack, as there already is one, and I started completely wrong the whole thing-as seen on the screenshot :-)))My hope s this Borei class, it seems I can build a fair 3d model, but the torpedo tubes and doors give me the headache. I can't figure out how to do them properly. I hope this is not some kind of industrial secret ,and the experts can lend me a helping hand. I plan to give this model to the subsim community ( I haven't given anything yet) so, I want it to be really good. Any help is appreciated. Thanks

[jhapprich]

sounds good. i am working on an interior for the Los Angeles SSN. ps what about your borei? i can show you how to do this with milkshape.

[Pistitom]

Well, my ultimate goal was a full exterior-interior all in one model , but for now I'd be happy with just the exterior. The problem is I couldn't figure out the intersection and combination of the tubes and the hole in the hull. If I just cut a simple circle shaped hole in the hull, it's diameter won't be the same as the torpedo's , obviously, since it's not vertical, thus distorted. I couldn't figure out the way to connect the tube properly with the hole. I found some boolean loop-draw kind of tutorials on intersection of planes, etc, but I can't do it properly, it gets an ugly mess...:-D.
I use Wings 3d by the way.
thx for the quickest reply in forum history :D:D:D

[jhapprich]

hmm i use two ways to do so. the old one is to put the model to front view so i can see the bow directly, then i add a cylinder or whatever form of the tube door you want, position it in x and z axis and move every vertice towards the bow, until it is positioned upon the surface. then i select the two neighbouring verices of the bow shape and an edge vertice of the tubedoor and create a new triangle. when it is done, i smooth the surface by unwelding the tube and the bow, this creates two objects and the penetrated bow schabe will need furter correction of the edges around the hole. or i simply add the boolean plugin in milkshape, create my 3-dimensinal tube and make it cut into the bow in the desired position, then i make a boolean operation that automatically cuts the hole which i just need to clean from surplus vertices afterwards.do not know how boolean is done in wings3d, but method one should work...
see

https://imageshack.com/a/utnz/1

[Pistitom]

I'm afraid my problem is a lot simpler than that...I can't get to cut a proper hole in the body of the sub, without it being ugly, and I don't know if that's ok...? I I could cut the hole, and weld the tube and body ( Hell, I'm not even sure if that's the correct way to do it...? or combine the two? I really am a beginner...http://s27.postimg.org/olck2p69v/Borei.png

[Pistitom]

Well, I think I just found what I was looking for....

http://www.wings3d.com/paulthepuzzles/aabridgeweld.html

[jhapprich]

jap thats it.however i cant get used to wings... nice model btw

[Pistitom]

thanks, it's a long way from being finished....but I still have tons of questions...Let me just list the here, I beg for forgiveness, if these are already answered somewhere on the forum, it's just more simple for me this way...:-)
How many polygons should a sub model have ? Or it depends solely pc performance? ( for eg. SH 5 , You have interior+ exterior, how many polygons are there? )
Should I create the external model proportionate to real life? I mean 175 meters should be 175 wings3d units from the start, or I can just size up the hole model when I'm finished ? ( Why do I have the feeling this is a stupid question ? :-))
OK, that's just for now, but I'll be back..
Thank You very much for Your help, don't go too far :D:up:

[jhapprich]

a good model can have 60.000 +

see eg my Whiskey V WIP :

i usually do my models in original size, 1unit=1 meter, and then scale it down by 10 times to match the games engine units, so ingame models are ten times smaller than in original life.

http://www11.pic-upload.de/06.08.14/9528jjxhrba6.jpg

[Pistitom]

Holy cr*p I must've been doing sg. wrong....only after 2 smoothing operations does my sub begin to look the way I want it , but then it has 168.256 polygons... By the way...This triangulation thing...can't understand why that is better, ( I see all these models -including Yours- and all of them have these triangled faces... Ok, I don't think You want to start an online 3d course for beginners, so I promise to hold back a bit on all these questions :-D ....
Nevertheless ,thx for Your time and help :salute:

[jhapprich]

lol guess well keep in touch. stay away from automatic smoothing anyways, its crap

[Pistitom]

Messed up big time:/\\!!:/\\!!:/\\!!
Made all these tube doors, the tubes themselves ( probably not in the right position) and then realized that the upper part of the deck itself with the doors is soooo much more curved....I'd really hate to scrap this whole thing, is this worth salvaging? Is there a solution? :wah::wah::wah:

http://s18.postimg.org/ajhnfkm4p/Borei2.jpg

[jhapprich]

seems quite all the same. select only one tube, reshape it, delete the others except for the lower planes and replicate the new tube in those positions, afterwards, make the turtle-back more rounded and reweld the nodes.

[Sledgehammer427]

For the record, I believe
(powering up the wayback machine as I try to remember my 3d experience in SH4)
That if you split the model up into multiple sub-models (pun intended) thn the game engine will be better able to manage all the vertices.
e.g. if you had this monster sub, you could turn the deck fittings into a second model group to be uploaded after the hull, etc etc

[Pistitom]

That's exactly what I've been thinking about after having seen the video ( link on another thread ) of the virginia class...I guess it could be easier to a certain degree to do a model just like in real life, sections, complete built in interior quarters, etc...But I wouldn't know, apart from that miserably failed Skipjack, this is my first ever 3d model :D.
Ps. But if one considers all the interior tubes, cables, everything to match when putting together the final model...well...it depends on the level of detail and quality one desires I guess...

[Pistitom]

Progress update after having spent a day repairing the damages done....I'd say the model itself is 75-80 percent ready.http://s21.postimg.org/5u4mbbzdj/Borei.jpg

[jhapprich]

nice, but how about the floodholes, hull details, the recesses for the forward planes and its hatches.

[Pistitom]

it's all in the making, but my right wrist is stiff right now, this is basically 2 weeks of work, I'm quite tired and my eyes are thinking of leaving me for a more caring host:D. The pleasures of unemployment :D, lots of free time...
Btw, 2 questions, if You don't mind...What are the recesses for the forward plane and it's hatches? And can I add the animations in milkshape if the doors, hatches, flaps, rudders are all different objects? Or do I have to weld them to the main body? I think I might need some extra help with this...thx

[jhapprich]

the borei has retractable forward planes just as the akula class, that do not fold back into the hull as do older subs, but slida paralelly to their shaft into the hull in a recess - or housing. the opening is then covered by a pair of hatches, that lower down from above the recess or raise from below. the forward planes are usually retracted on surface cruise or when going high speed submerged, they are only necessary for slow submerged manouvering. all the moving parts ingame have to be seperate objects that need to be aligned on the axis they will move on later, eg you ned to center the aft diving planes to the x-axis and the rudder to z. i would recommend you open one of my yanke- or delta class ssbn mods (the .dat-file) in silent3ditor and examine how things need to work together.you don not make animations in your modelling program, those are done in s3d.

[jhapprich]

ps unweld the hatches for the decoys and the torpedo loading cover on the bow, they will look much better. however make sure every plane surface is weld in order to create a smooth surface, but planes going 90° to each other shuld not be weldet so you maintain sharp edges were they are supposed to be. uv mapping-never mind, youll get through that as well, the sub looks grat right now and i know that aching wrist much too well...good job buddy!

[Pistitom]

Well now You did the biggest favor to me. I've taken the plunge , no real research done, just some blueprints and pics from the internet , and thought I could build a model. I was arrogant , thank You for reminding me of the word "quality" ( no sarcasm, I'm being honest here). I know 10 % of the sub ( well, exterior :-)))) and 10 % of Wings 3d , yet I decided to make a super-hyper -extra Borei...LOL
I just found on a forum the things You said about the retractable fw planes in a couple of minutes, I could've done that before I started.
( I thought- based on the "blueprint"- they worked like the flaps on airplanes )
I really need to learn more about wings3d as well, thank You again. Back to the drawing board I guess :-)))))

[jhapprich]

hey hey hey dont you stop right now its fine, and your boomer will get some nice escort i promise: (ps i felt my old akula looked pretty bad so i am currently redoing it all over) :

http://www11.pic-upload.de/10.08.14/6nusoc3597hj.jpg:up:

[Pistitom]

no, of course I won' stop, I just need to be more careful, yesterday again I spent hours trying to figure out how to fix the torpedo doors and the recess for the forward planes ( got them fixed, they slide in now ) I often mess up things, because I don't think in advance, just do things and then have deal with the results, so basically I have to learn how to build a house properly, starting with the foundation ...:-)
So, yeah, it will be awesome with Your "facelifted" Akula I can't wait for it :-))) ( btw Akula is my second favourite submarine after Cpt. Nemo's Nautilus-form the 1954 movie. Interestingly enough, the edition (quite old) I read as a child had some great copper engraving illustrations, and the sub looked nothing like in the movie, but as a modern nuclear sub without the coning tower, with just a small hump-like the ones on carrier decks . But I prefer the movie version, it's an exiting concept :-)))

[Joefour]

You can use Blender too, but be warned:the learning curve is as steep as Everest.

[Pistitom]

Thank You, it's always good to know more software, but I'll stick with wings 3d for now, You know, it's good for beginners, I want to "master" this software, and then move on to more sophisticated ones. By the way, from what I've seen (videos,pics), one can achieve basically the same level of detail and quality with Wings3d as with other software . But I definitely want to try Blender and 3DSmax as well ( but first i have to become millionare:haha:)

[Pistitom]

Another progress update, I need some serious help here with the process of rendering and so on. What I did was import the propeller into Blender ( Joefour, You couldn't keep me away :D ) , done some things to it, and then I couldn't import it back to wings3d the way it looked, so did some additional trial and error kinda things with it and here is the result ( not the final, just the preliminary test results, so You can see, what kind of help I need.
When rendering in Blender, what format do You use to import it back ( the rendered version ) into wings 3d ? or am I asking sg. stupid?
and ,of course the issue of textures...( i don't want the propeller to look like this, obviously...
Can I do everything in Blender? If I download a high-res picture from the net, and I use sample of it? And what's this got to do with UV mapping in Wings 3d???? Oh, man, if anybody knows of a comprehensive tutorial/manual/encyclopedia on this....please let me know...:-)))
Thank You all who helped so far, really appreciate it !

http://s28.postimg.org/damjd3ef1/2propeller.png
http://s12.postimg.org/nd5ruo6ql/propeller.jpg

[Pistitom]

Err, guys, I started UV mapping the sub, I' ve done the two rudders, with textures, but now I REALLY need some help here...( I know, throwing a tantrum isn't a nice thing...-see my previous post :D) But now, I have some questions, related to Blender and the game. I've read the available maps list in the modding help forum, but unfortunately I don't really understand. Are these maps I have to apply in Blender, then import the sub in the game, or I have to add these maps in-game ,or what ? I apologize, really have no clue how to do these things. How do I know the way the sub will look like in game ?
I don't want to continue with the mapping, until I know I'm not doing sg stupid :-)))
Thank You all

[Pistitom]

Still WIP...

http://s23.postimg.org/8tadrltwb/Borei_top.jpg

http://s29.postimg.org/o2vwnn6tz/Borei_side.jpg

http://s27.postimg.org/c7g21q7ib/Borei_sail.jpg

http://s17.postimg.org/h62pd7tgf/Borei_propellers.jpg

http://s17.postimg.org/stwr7rilb/Borei_front.jpg

http://s14.postimg.org/5yuqjzl1t/Borei_back.jpg

[jhapprich]

nice to look at, but i am afraid your model is not symmetric(check the look from the stern- the floodholes do not match, ando so does the missile comartment.sorry)

[Pistitom]

Sh*t, got so lost in the details...I can't believe I didn't see that...

[Pistitom]

Ok, thank God it was only the last six flood holes that were in the wrong place...That's fixed. But I can't fix the missile compartment. I'm not even sure we're talking about the same thing, what I found is that the right side of it is slightly closer to the center ( due to the thickness of the reference image lines- and me being an amateur :-)))).
Yeah, the stern area of the compartment isn't the nicest thing I've ever seen, had to do a lot of fixing there (same mistake again, didn't realize there were edges selected, ended up with a real mess, that's why it's bumpy, I hope I can fix it somehow, though I doubt it...displacement of that small round "hatch" thing on the right side of the rudder is the result ,I think I might be able to fix that...)

http://s8.postimg.org/ulbo03kg5/Screenshot.jpg

[Marka Ragnos]

I have no idea on how to help you sadly but i always hoped someday a Borei class would be introduced to Silent Hunter 4, awesome work!!
Jhapprich really is the king around here, he can help for sure :)

[Pistitom]

thank You, I hope I will be able to finish it in a couple of months, I had to rebuild basically the whole stern part of the missile compartment, Jhapprich was right about it, now I'm getting close to finishing the model. I have to learn the texturing in Blender, ( the hardest part is the work in gimp, never used any program of that sort for anything ,have to learn that as well) and then comes the Silent 3ditor, which is another big leap in my PC studies :-)))).
I first wanted to create an interior for Ohio class, or Los Angeles , (the ones that have enough pics and videos for me to get a general idea) but that's way more difficult, so, first the Borei, than some interior.

[Pistitom]

trying to figure out texturing in blender...some of the body looks more or less ok, the sail is a mess...still working on the 3d model itself, but got anxious a bit :-)
I also have a question to texture gurus out there....I have a tiled texture I work with in Gimp. But when I draw the waterlines and other signs, I can import that back in blender successfully, but the tiled texture disappears. It has to do sg. with the layers, but couldn't figure out what...
http://s27.postimg.org/soi5hcshv/Borei18.pnghttp://s29.postimg.org/7h1erxfqf/Borei17.png

http://s3.postimg.org/953hd5otf/Borei12.png

http://s1.postimg.org/6xl22ax3z/Borei10.png

http://s27.postimg.org/ligr41npf/Borei02.png

[Pistitom]

I give up. I took a couple weeks off this project, now I'm back. And I still can't figure out how to add accurate markings to the skin. I can apply textures, bump map, normal map, amb. occlusion, etc ( although I still don't really know what is needed in game). But I can't do the markings, water line etc. So anyone who has time, and is willing to do this, is more than welcome to help me out. this is the only thing I still couldn't figure out. it's maddening. found no templates to copy-paste, no pics for accuracy, etc...like the good old Beatles sang...HELP :)

[Chaoic16]

Wow, your submarine looks so incredible! Is there any of chance I can test your submarine in SH4? And how is the progress with your submarine so far?

[Pistitom]

Hey there, well, my motherboard died a month ago, so now I'm just trying to continue where I've left off, textures, markings, etc . Of course You can test it, if You know how to import it into the game, because I have no idea:D. But it'll take some time to finish..

[Treetop64]

I just enquired in another thread about that 3D sub interior mod that was started years ago. Compartments missing in the default version of the game were being built (Goat Locker and Officer's Quarters, Crew Berthing, Engine rooms, Torp compartments, etc...). Unfortunately it seems that project died off. Looked like it was very good, thorough work, matching the detail and quality of the default control room and conning tower.

If something like that could be restarted with the quality that is shown below, that would be fabulous!

Really wish that mod was completed and released, though. Was really looking forward to it.

[Marka Ragnos]

Any word on the borei?

Don't give up, it looks great!

[jhapprich]

since it take A LOT time to do make a new interior (i stopped work on the ALFA`s and Los Angeles`), i am currently trying the following for the Sierra: I took the SClass command room and added "covers" over the pipe etc. to fake a console(this is actually the cristmas tree).so now i have a modern looking console and i dont have to do all the work for lamps and buttons and dials. it wont be a sierra command room to the scale, but it will be a cheap-to-do modern interior. what i do is taking the model of the part i want to cover, built the cover in milkshape, adding the colliding parts of the original command room in neighbourhood and making that my pre-ambient occlusion model. i then bake the AO in seperate files, so i only have an uv-model of the cover and an ambient occlusion with the shadows of the other things around, and add the cover and a new material with the texure and my ao to the stock command room.voila ->http://fs2.directupload.net/images/150417/cckbap6u.pnghttp://fs2.directupload.net/images/150417/csqah59g.png

and before:

http://fs2.directupload.net/images/150417/6d2qtznq.png

[ZodiakLegion]

This looks absolutely amazing. Even better, it's a fresh project! I explicitly look forward to the beta/finished product! :rock: Good luck on the continuing work. Subscribing to thread :subsim:

[Pistitom]

Marka Ragnos, unfortunately I haven't touched the Borei for over half a year now, first the motherboard died, then the video card, I'm using the integrated card now, too weak for Blender. And being unemployed, makes it kinda hard to buy a new card :wah: But, that's the minor issue, the problem is I got stuck with texturing. if anyone is willing to finish it , I'd be happy to send the files needed.

[jhapprich]

Pistitom id be happy to help

[Pistitom]

:woot::woot::woot:
Wow, super, it'd be great, what files do You need? You give me Your e-mail, or how do I send them ?

[Marka Ragnos]

Wow that would indeed be great, he's the man around here.

Would be nice to try out the Borei.

[Marka Ragnos]

Any news on this jhapprich? :cool:

[jhapprich]

yes, the model he made is nice but not useable for silent hunter, it has to be redone