FIFA World Cup 2014

[mapuc]

Don't forget North Korea(where are they??)

Markus

[Feuer Frei!]

I only hope they do not underestimate the Argentinians
The PK with Jogy and co. has already said that they aren't and won't.
Nor the players.
The Niveau of Brazil win has ended, even after the same day.
They are grounded. They know Argentina is not a 1-man team (although recent matches have indicated otherwise to an extent).



I hope there will be no penalty shootout, that would be the worst outcome possible.
Well. If they lose on penalties, yes i agree.
They both have great goal keepers.
If my money was on either 1 saving the decisive, or any penalities for that matter, it would be Neuer.

Germany are the masters of penalty shootouts :yeah:

[Jimbuna]

Holland further embarrassed Brazil and deservedly so.

Probably watch the final tonight at York in a pub with the Quality Street Gang at the SubSim Meet.

I strongly fancy Germany to win but only by one or two goals at most.

[Skybird]

Well. If they lose on penalties, yes i agree.
They both have great goal keepers.
If my money was on either 1 saving the decisive, or any penalities for that matter, it would be Neuer.

Germany are the masters of penalty shootouts :yeah:
No, you misunderstood me, I dislike penalty shootouts in general for deciding football matches. After 120 min, I would let the game roll on in sudden death mode. I don'T want Germany to either loose or win via penalties. It devalues the outcome, always, no matter what the outcome is.

[Skybird]

One more reason, and perhaps one of the biggest that Germany will win against Argentina:

Brazil fans will support a German win.

IF they even show up after that second humiliation yesterday. :D

On a subjective, historical level, I think the Germans still have an open bill to settle with the Argentinians. That Maradona scored by hand goal back then, well, such things happen and sometimes intentionally. But that he even boasted with it afterwards and did not just keep his arrogant mouth shut and claimed it was heavenly support that he cheated and betrayed, that was what really pissed me and has brought me up against this... this thing forever. I just cannot stand this arrogant dwarf.

I would not mind another German 7 goals massacre therefore, but I see that this is a very unlikely scenario. :D

Let revenge be ours! :arrgh!:

[STEED]

Get out there Germany and destroy Argentina's dreams big time. :shifty: :arrgh!:

And that is a order! :ping:


GO GERMANY... :up:

[Schroeder]

Get out there Germany and destroy Argentina's dreams big time. :shifty: :arrgh!:

And that is a order! :ping:

Only if you give us the Falklands.:O:

[STEED]

Only if you give us the Falklands.:O:

You can have them, don't forget your neighbor will be demanding them off you.

[Tango589]

I'm rooting for Germany, just to see the look on Cristina Kirchners' face as the Argies get the slapping they deserve.

[Kaptlt.Endrass]

Germany. Always rooting for my ancestreal homeland.

[Nippelspanner]

Germany. Always rooting for my ancestreal homeland.
Good boy! :)

Heute wirds' klappen!

[STEED]

Lets BS chit chat and get on with it. :hulk:

[STEED]

At last we're off..

Get on with it!

Stop farting around!

Bunch of women in a supermarket!

[Skybird]

Almost halftime. Argentina has the better chances. They easily get FULL compensation by their counterattacks.

The ref again is close to being called a disaster. Hasnt seen a penalty for Germany, an Arge tinian handplay, several very hard fouls.

Oops , Hoewedes almost a headkick goal.

Totally unclear outcome,open end. Not satisfactory, from German POV.

[Skybird]

One half in second half over. Argentina now with advantages. Stromg defence, wins many duels, The Germans currently have lost their orientation. Plus bad luck on several occasions.

Reasons for starting to get nervous.

[Skybird]

9 mins to go. Game balance shifting again, now slight advantages for the Germans.

[Catfish]

Oh please, not again ...

[Skybird]

First half overtime over. Wrecking match now, pure nerve and will power.

[Skybird]

Shyt referee. Cant one spank these bloody bastards?

Most referees i have seen in this tournament were not worth their name.

[Skybird]

111. Min! Even these referees will not stop them!!!

[Skybird]

Y E S !

[mapuc]

My favorite team(one of them) WON Yihaaa

Markus

[Kptlt. Neuerburg]

Deutschland gewinnt die Weltmeisterschaft!

[Feuer Frei!]

http://www.massmailsoftware.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/4.jpg

[Skybird]

Special respect to Sebastian Schweinsteiger. He got almost beaten up, sent tl the floor time and again, injured - and stood up again every time until the end. Chapeau!

[Oberon]

Nice to see one of the new lads score the decider, and Stiger really took a licking but kept on kicking. Well done Germany, and well played Argentina.

[CCIP]

Congratulations to the best team in the world :yep:

[Marcantilan]

Congrats!:up:

[Schroeder]

That games probably cost me 2 years of my life. The Argentinians definitely were a tough nut to crack and this could have easily ended the other way around. I'm glad that Klose could get a world champion title before retirement.
:rock:

[Skybird]

The Argentinians really set up a fight, played absolutely on same eye level with Germany, and are an absolute world class team for sure. I think the Germans had a longer breath in the end only due to a slightly better physical endurance - slightly, to be seen in overtime, maybe. The one thing I do not like about the Argentinians is their extremely tough, sometimes brutal style.

Schroeder is right, it could have ended the other way around as well. Easily.

It is amazing how the German team has grown in quality during the tournament. That was not to be expected before.

And so many young players in Germany that are standing in line for the national team! What Klinsmann has begun, and Löw continued, now shows its fruits. He changed the system and kicked in doors. Löw changed himself, too. And that again is positive for all.

The only thing left for me - beside the terrible referees - to nag about: how could one dare to become world champion in such ugly tricots? :D

[Feuer Frei!]

Neuer has received the Golden Gloves.
Well deserved. He had an outstanding wc.

http://www.dfb.de/fileadmin/Image_Archive/News/neuer_ehrung_getty_01_60742_p880722.jpg


http://www.dfb.de/fileadmin/Image_Archive/News/pokal_lahm_getty_60738_p880722.jpg


Apologies for the size of pictures :D


Argentina did indeed push them all the way.
I and many others knew before the game that they have a very very tough defence.
Similar to how the Italians played in defense.

Bad luck Argentina, you played a good game.

I felt Germany was a little lucky, yes, it could have gone either way.

I think you could see that the usual effective passing game and the finishing touches just weren't there for us, but through perseverance, a great goal by Mario Götze!
Great positioning, excellent ball control with his chest and then to line up the shot and situation as cool as a cucumber with the whole world watching? Wow.
Let's not underestimate that goal.

Boatang good solid defense, saved many a Konter from Argentina.

How Höwedes missed that header is beyond me.
Should have been won there and then.


Golden Boot award goes to:
James Rodriguez, Columbia with 6 goals

Golden Ball award goes to:
Messi (best player at wc 2014).

[Nippelspanner]

Nothing against Messi, I like him, look up to his skills... but ffs, how is he "player of the tournament"???!! :stare:

[Herr-Berbunch]

This World Cup I had low hopes of my national team from the off, and that wasn't unfounded. When it came to the final I was clearly in a dilema, which my the favoured team for a Brit won. :woot:

[Feuer Frei!]

Nothing against Messi, I like him, look up to his skills... but ffs, how is he "player of the tournament"???!! :stare:


Beats me. I think there were better players that consistently performed.

He faded towards the latter stages of the final, hardly saw him.
So couldn't have been based on this performance.

I think Arjen Robben, Neymar, James Rodriguez and Thomas Mueller can be a little disappointed in this decision.

[Nippelspanner]

Thought that kinda fits here... :D
http://i.imgur.com/48nInfu.png

[Skybird]

Beats me. I think there were better players that consistently performed.

He faded towards the latter stages of the final, hardly saw him.
So couldn't have been based on this performance.
:stare: He kept the Germans busy all time long, hd several dangeorus runs and attacks, at the end had the chance to score via a standard, and attracted major attention throughout the match! Had you fallen asleep in midgame? :)

I think Arjen Robben, Neymar, James Rodriguez and Thomas Mueller can be a little disappointed in this decision.Yes, and some others, Kroos for example, but it is a political decision, probably. With Germany claiming goalie and trophy, and the other teams absent, there was only the Argentinians left to be presented before the cameras. And undeserved for Messi it is not.

But remembering the Tv pictures I assume the Argentinians would have preferred to not get silver medals and Messi trophy, but to simply disappear in the catacombs.

[Feuer Frei!]

Just because someone gets extra attention during a wc match, any match, doesn't automatically qualify them for a golden ball.
Of course this 'decision', is not based on this match (alone).

I am talking consistently Sky, not attracting attention because of the skill level.

He scored 4 goals.
Sure, he played well, but, consistently, there were players that certainly rivalled this decision.
Political? Maybe.
Keep the stats and fans happy.

Had it have been then a roar of disapproval would be justified.

Yes he was dangerous, as you would expect from the supposed No. 1 player in the world (another decision, this time by players, perhaps more justified?)



I failed to mention:

The young player award went to France's midfielder Paul Pogba.

Disappear into the footballing never never land now, with their idol, the hand of drugs!

[Onkel Neal]

Congrats to Germany! I'm glad they were able to decide the game without penalty kicks.

[Marcantilan]

Beats me. I think there were better players that consistently performed.

He faded towards the latter stages of the final, hardly saw him.
So couldn't have been based on this performance.

I think Arjen Robben, Neymar, James Rodriguez and Thomas Mueller can be a little disappointed in this decision.

I agree, Messi is the best player of the world, but he was not the best player in this World Cup.

But Robben? Come on! He is a diving artist, but not much more (anyway, he is in his late fifties???)

Regards,

[Nippelspanner]

I agree, Messi is the best player of the world, but he was not the best player in this World Cup.

But Robben? Come on! He is a diving artist, but not much more (anyway, he is in his late fifties???)

Regards,
As mentioned earlier, I am an outspoken Robben "fan" (note the sarcasm, please).
But even I have to defend him here.
While he IS a diver (class A diver man!), he is also a very skilled and fast player who can turn a game around by his actions. He has proven that in the German Bundesliga and also in this tournament. He IS a very good player... unfortunately he is just as good as a diver...

[CCIP]

Yeah, it was a great game to watch - and I do have to hand it to Argentina, they really did do well and were equally deserving, shame they had to end with such a visible feeling of disappointment, almost shock really.

The tension in that whole game was palpable - especially for the 2nd half. Schweinsteiger was practically the official punching bag of the match. And then you had that moment at I think about 110 minutes where the German bench nearly rushed out onto the field in frustration - for a team that's been methodical, confident and cool throughout this tournament, that definitely says a lot. Only Argentina managed to put Germany on edge like that.

[Feuer Frei!]

German bench nearly rushed out onto the field in frustration - for a team that's been methodical, confident and cool throughout this tournament, that definitely says a lot. Only Argentina managed to put Germany on edge like that.

That i believe was a blatant foul that was missed by the ref.
The moment happened right in front of the German bench.

When everything is on the line and match was as tight as it was, it's understandable to do that.
I did see the whole bench erupt in anger at not getting the foul.

Did they lose their cool? No. Did they show too much emotion? No.
It's a wc final :D

The reffing was not a stand-out performance.

That moment was i think the 111th or 112th minute.
113th Minute was when the goal was scored.

From frustration to euphoria in the matter of a minute or two.

This may have been the moment:

http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/31/11/14/6591247/3/628x471.jpg


And it's Oracle time with kleiner Paul, or little Paul.

http://s2.djyimg.com/n3/eet-content/uploads/2014/07/452021148-676x450.jpg

He picked the right winner:

SOURCE (http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/798198-germany-vs-argentina-predictions-preview-betting-odds-date-time-of-die-nationalmannschaft-la-albiceleste-world-cup-2014-final/)

[CCIP]

The refs were really conservative in this match, reluctant to pull cards on a lot of nasty moments. In this case, yeah, it definitely benefited Germany more than it did Argentina. It seemed like they were resigned to letting the teams play on with a full 11 players until the end.

And BTW, I may not be an octopus, but I supported Germany from the start of all of this :D
There's actually a lot of support for Germany here (the town I live in was founded by German immigrants and still retains its roots), so it sure is a good result for the locals.

[Nippelspanner]

The refs were really conservative in this match, reluctant to pull cards on a lot of nasty moments. In this case, yeah, it definitely benefited Germany more than it did Argentina. It seemed like they were resigned to letting the teams play on with a full 11 players until the end.
You mean when we got two yellow cards where one was a complete joke?
Don't see how that was a help to Germany.
Also, he didn't make use of his perfectly fine whistle where he could have, when some German players where nearly making saltos because they got knocked over...:hmph:

[vanjast]

Messi reminded me why I don't watch soccer that much...
I've never seen such 'bad sportsmanship' in such a high profile game before.

He literally snubbed everyone (officials included), and worst of all, his supporters. A hard match and disappointing for the Argentinians. Have a few moments to cry about it, sure it has been a long road, but don't act like a spoilt brats.

I switched off the tv at the point where the Germans received the 'ball'.
At that point Messi and the Argentinian side were still 'crying' and showed no appreciation to their supporters - totally unprofessional as far as I'm concerned.

Well done to Germany.. it was a good match.

[Feuer Frei!]

'bad sportsmanship'

Seems it's not the first time in this tournament:

http://get-benched.com/general/argentina-fined-by-fifa-for-press-conference-snubs


Aaannnd.....the blame games begin from Sir Messi:

http://get-benched.com/general/messi-blames-world-cup-defeat-on-strikers

Hmmm, just found this too:

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2014/7/13/5896383/lionel-messi-sad-world-cup-golden-ball-video

No eye contact with golden ball presenter, a dismissive handshake and cursory glance at Neuer...
Meh, let him sook. If he's going to be like that. And blame everyone barr himself for the loss.
I think he forgets it's a team game.

Devastated? Yes. Understandable? Yes.
But show some sort of class.

[Skybird]

That is the problem with pathetically high flying emotions: if you fail, you fall the deeper.

The German title is the result of not just 120 minutes, but the past 10-12 years. When the new millenium dawned, German football was somewhat mediocre, and technically inferior, only fighting alone did not do it for the Germans anymore. They had to reinvent themselves, had to start almost from scratch and relaunched the work in the youth sector, the systematic training of talents on club level, and the superior status of the very healthy structures of club finances in germany, which sets he Bundesliga apart from playgrounds of foreign investors like in Britain and Spain, helped in that. Since then, Germany had four semifinals, one final lost, and so has suffered a lot of opportunities until last night. But after this time, and this way of working for success, the Germans indeed deserved this title more than anyone else this year. And the amount of growth they showed during the tournament, was amazing. As i have said before: before the tournament such a rise of their performance level, compared to the last months before the cup, was not to be automatically expected.

It' been a long, long way! Let's celebrate!

It shows the US football administration what a trainer they got with Klinsmann who gave the starting shot in Germany, and it could show the Brazilians what they have to do now in the coming 6-8 years. To simply assume this all was a mishap and they will get the title in Russia in 4 years, imo is a bit childish, owed once again to this incredibly emotional temperament many people in South America seem to have.

I hope to see the next cup with video backup for the refs. Their performance this cup was terrible and unacceptable. Yesterday, Germany should have gotten a penalty in first half after a foul in penalty zone, and too many extremely brutal fouls against German players had no consequences. The Germans numerically fouled more, yes: but the more brutal fouls came form Argentina, while some of the German fouls were so minor that one could have let some of them even pass. The scene with Neuer against Hindugain was no foul (like they now say in Argentina), but iron determination. The outcome of the action proved Neuer right. A lot of goalies jump like he did, but even with straight leg and foot first, to scare the attacker off. Neuer yesterday at least bend his leg, but the physical contact was not to be avoided if he wanted to get the ball, and he did. Should he freeze and let Hindugain shoot the goal? Its part of the goalie's job to allow getting shot at, or risk physical collisions with other players if only he get the ball. Usually it is the attacker being expected by referees to break off if they see they cannot get the ball without slamming into the goalie.

[Skybird]

As mentioned earlier, I am an outspoken Robben "fan" (note the sarcasm, please).
But even I have to defend him here.
While he IS a diver (class A diver man!), he is also a very skilled and fast player who can turn a game around by his actions. He has proven that in the German Bundesliga and also in this tournament. He IS a very good player... unfortunately he is just as good as a diver...
Well, I am a Robben fan (and no sarcasm at all), but I became that not before the last season. He is a very ripe player now, willing and capable to direct a match and dangerous and unpredictable in his movement patterns to decide matches all by himself. He is a walking and running landmine. It was also enjoyable how he made his peace with his engagement at Munich and fully settled down in that team again - it has not always been like that for him in Munich. He almost left. Regarding football, he is at home in Munich. And that does good things for him, mentally.

And he looks so funny when running, his arm-leg coordination is weired, almost girly. But it is effective, extremely, and that is what counts. also, I like the way he presents his personality in interviews.

[Feuer Frei!]

Some questionable decisions, 2 glaring misses by both sides:

Kroos got out of jail for this:

https://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/860197930.gif?1405279129

What a miss!!!
Should have been Argentina 1 Germany 0.


Then:

https://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/860199199.gif?1405280672

How the heck could you miss that?
Howedes.

Should have been Argentina 1 Germany 1.

Messi, on his favoured left foot:

https://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/860200359.gif?1405281842

Tight angle but hey, he';s the best player in the world right?
Neuer wouldn't have stopped it.

Argentina 2 Germany 1


Here's the Neuer heroics, compared by some fools to that of Tony Schumacher's battering:

https://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/860201023.gif?1405282545

Good goalkeeping. Nothing more, nothing less.
Dominant.

Next:

https://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/860203203.gif?1405285148

Many possibilities here, but, straight at the keeper.

Argentina 2 Germany 2.


Next:

https://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/860203469.gif?1405285445

Neuer beaten, didn't happen often.

Bad miss.

Argentina 3 Germany 2


Stats for Schweini:

http://wp.streetwise.co/wp-content/uploads//2014/07/bastian-schweinsteiger-Bleeding-2014-World-Cup-Final.png

What a warrior!! :rock:


And here is the goal of Super Mario:

https://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/860204640.gif?1405286847

Now that is class :rock: Chest and on volley. No pressure :haha:

Superb finish.


Argentina 3 Germany 3.

So, judging by this, we have a 3 all scoreline by the end of extra time.

Penalty shoot-out by my reckoning.

Thank goodness it didn't go there.

A mistifying decision at half time was by the Argentine coach Sabella substituting Lavezzi for Aguero.

With Lavezzi they had the mid field stacked and momentum going forward.
Aguero is a better player than Lavezzi but....not this time.
Once Aguero came on they lost the impetus in midfield, and freed up Schweinsteiger and co to give them a little more space.

Questionable decision really.


And Sir Messi, walking away from Sabella's team talk before extra time:

https://v.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/0710AC7BF21100212223600963584_14052852318121fdfb4c b33.mp4.mp4?versionId=fRbR7rI7xNx_fyjsJfPE_SC7OoK7 jhrX

Messi doesn't do team talks it seems. Pretty poor.

[CCIP]

I'd go even further than 10-12 years and say that in many ways, this is at last a capstone to all the work that's been done since reunification. It's been a long road for Germany. And I definitely agree that one of the most important things that this team showed is that it isn't simply enough to have passion, scale of support and individual skill - you need strategy, resources, and a lot of work towards a goal. There's a lot to be said for the fact that these winning players have all come through outstanding and well-managed youth sport programs and leagues that Germany has. And there's a lot to be learned, even beyond sport, about the virtues of patience and knowing how to take a long view and see a process through from start to finish, without taking much for granted.

And that's the story of this World Cup generally, too - one can see, for example, the great resourcefulness of Brazil in hosting this cup and all that they have to offer, but alongside it also a great deal of corruption, mis-management and short-sightedness. I hope the lesson on the pitch is one that Brazilian officials and businessmen also take to heart - yes, you might have a lot to offer, but you really need to work intelligently and with a long view to really get to your goal.

[Feuer Frei!]

Regarding football, he is at home in Munich.

And he has confirmed this, not moving with Van Gaal to Man Utd.

[Feuer Frei!]

Interesting.
Just found this:

Argentine football icon Diego Maradona feels Lionel Messi should not have been given the Golden Ball award at this year's World Cup in Brazil because he did not deserve itI thought i'd never agree with him :haha:


http://sports.ndtv.com/fifa-world-cup-2014/news/226900-world-cup-2014-lionel-messi-did-not-deserve-to-win-golden-ball-award-says-diego-maradona

And he seems to agree with you Skybird, to an extent.
Commercialism.

[Skybird]

Maradonna does not like another Argentinian player being lifted to his own national status, and surpassing him - that's what is behind it. ;)

I found a nice nickname for Jogi Löw after reading some press this morning: Löw, the architect.

I started to doubt him over the past 12 months or so. I did him wrong, obviously.

[STEED]

Well done Germany, and next time be faster about it. :03:

[Skybird]

Messi MVP already questionable.

But I just read - Columbia gets the fairplay trophy.

:har:

I reward FIFA the award for the most stoned junky of the tournament!

[Nippelspanner]

I don't say this cause I'm German, I am no nationalist or something, but many decisions FIFA made are absurd and some of these trophies should be among the German team as well.
We have solid candidates for best player, and van Buyten sure wasn't best defender...wth?
If... what was Mats Hummels... "present"?
What he has done the whole tournament(!) was outstanding and next to fascinating... but yeah, wouldn't be PC if Germany wins it all I guess.

Fairplay, I guess we could have been a candidate for this as well. The 2 yellow cards in the final sure hurt this statistic... but one of them was pure bs (Schweinsteiger's, he barely touched the argentine player, wth?).

Ah who cares, in a few days already, all of this is forgotten and not important anymore... never was, if you be honest.

[mapuc]

I thank you for a good discussion during this World Cup it have been some game you will remember and some you'll try to forget.

In all it have been a good World Cup, if we look at the play only. I have stated earlier in this thread what my wishes for future World Cup is.

Thanks for this time see you again in another thread when we discuss....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup

Markus

[Skybird]

If you consider to what immense degree this event has the power to remind people of their shared - national - identity, and how much you also are made by these events to realise the national identity, the group identity of the others in their other colours, I would not say that it is all not important.

It teaches a lesson, especially to identity-denying bureaucrats like in the EU or socialist partie, that it is not just foolish but - considering that these emotions obviously are real and intense - almost obscene to just declare all that irrelevant and non-exiostent, as if that identity can be defined at will, by arbitrary adminstrative decision. It brings back some tribal emotions, making something emerging again that is usually covered under a layer of "reasonability" and " pragmatism". But that energy is real, and it motivates people for better or worse, under certain circumstances. Than k good it is a sports event this time. All too often it has been wars.

Even an emotional Vulcan like me yesterday felt that deeply hidden energy touching my inner core. Have I anything to do in real life with those hundreds of thousands and millions of German people? No, I even have attacked them as an anonymous group over political issues many times, and am angry at them. And still - yesterday, for a moment, I felt very clearly that I definitely am not Argentinian, or of any other national or cultural identity - but German.

That may be irrational. Even confusing. Nevertheless such irrational symptoms still can echo in reality, and define it.

The football world cup is the last of the nations' camp fires around which the tribes sit together and do voodoo to scare away other tribes. And if they win, the whole gang howls together, like wolves do.

[Schroeder]

Did anyone else think that the Golden Glove trophy that Neuer got looked totally cheap?:down:

[Platapus]

Did anyone else think that the Golden Glove trophy that Neuer got looked totally cheap?:down:

Well most trophies look pretty cheap and chinzy when you get a real close look at them. :O:

[Platapus]

During the finals, did anyone else see the Guinness "Empty chair" commercial... and did anyone else cry like I did? :yep:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx0MRawkrj4

:salute::salute:

[heartc]

That may be irrational. Even confusing. Nevertheless such irrational symptoms still can echo in reality, and define it. No. That is rational. It might seem irrational from an exclusively evolutionist perspective, since we are all African apes after all, but this is very abstract in a practical sense and not applicable on the day-to-day scale of human lifetime, which is what matters for relationships between humans. It is very rational from the sociological and cultural perspective. What is irrational instead is lumping all people from all over the world together into the same spot - not by natural exchange between the groups / races / cultures, but by political maneuvering and intent - and then on the one hand putting pressure on a group to "integrate" (= giving up their cultural identities, customs and values) and on the other hand blaming and chastizing the host group for not being open enough. Then again, it is not irrational to do so if your political goal is to destroy cultural and ethnical bounds so you - as a "multi-national" corporation - don't have to deal with a cohesive front that is "a people" when trying to make everybody a cheap work slave and/or consumer, insuree etc. and control the politics of each..."nation". Against them, against the true masters and mighty, the individual is impotent. Totally impotent. You got a problem? You are fired! So they naturally seek to atomize societies into solely individuals and / or create social / culture tensions within a country, with the inhabitants of that sorry place then being busy blaming each other for their misery - e.g. Germans blaiming the foreigners for the downfall of the welfare system and ever so lower wage job market, and the foreigners blaming the German "Nazis" for being discriminated against by not getting a proper job with reasonable income. They - the masters - would rather have that than natural, healthy peoples showing them their limits by the laws the peoples agreed to live under. No, we don't need that, we don't need your stupid Volk. We want everybody to be the same, meaning everybody is nobody, and if you don't agree with that, you're a racist / nazi / fascist / sexist. The thing is - I agree that if we want to reach the stars one day, we will have to unify as mankind. Imho, we will never reach, say, Alpha Centauri as long as we are divided by culture and religion. If only for the reason that the advanced tech and energy that would be necessary for such a task would be in high risk to be rather used - as long as we are divided - by ourselves against ourselves than before that constructive undertaking would happen. And if it would only be for ancient books from the bronze age ppl are made to believe in. And then we would be done and be wiped off the face of the earth. But this unification has to come about naturally. It has to come about by rational exchange, reason, discussion. Not just between peoples, but foremost within the peoples themselves. We cannot - and we have no business at all, for that matter - to dictate to e.g. Saudi Arabia if they should let their women drive cars or wear a headscarf. That's not going to work. Neither do they have any right to dictate to Germans how we should transform ourselves to accomodate foreign immigrants (never mind, they don't have to, our "own" politicians are doing it for them). Once - through those means mentioned above - we can all agree on the way forward and leave ancient books behind, we might journey to the stars. But it will not come about by social engineering. Especially since those pursuing that agenda have very different objectives in mind. What distinguishes capitalism from communism? In communism, companies first get nationalized and then ruined, in capitalism they get first ruined and then nationalized. - (Vaclav Klaus) I might still be on your ignore list, Skybird - from a different time though - when you thought all things Anti-American were good, and I thought all things American were good (excuse that simplification). But I want to say that you're on the right track with that quote (though in capitalism, they don't get ruined and nationalized - they THREATEN to get ruined and then take over the state (= the law people agreed to live under), because they are "systemrelevant" and have the politicians by their balls and in their pockets. You know, there is a very specific conclusion you could draw from that realization re 20th century history. But I won't go there. You'll find out yourself in time, if you keep entertaining your mind. TL;DR: It is rational. What is irrational is lumping everybody together and expect it to work. Or maybe it's not irrational, depending on your agenda. But then see above.

[heartc]

Damn, I paragraphed it and put space between stuff. I saved it into a txt file when trying to get Skybird's quote in it (because signatures won't show when quoting someone, so I had to exit) and then copied it back in. Then it ended up a wall of text, so I edited it again with paragraphs. But it's still a wall of text. Sorry for that.

[heartc]

I don't say this cause I'm German, I am no nationalist or something, but See? There is something very wrong with people if they were made to feel obligated to qualify their remarks about A GAME like that. It's sick. Very. (Nothing personal Nippelspanner. I know the drill. And you should start seeing it as such. Here's a hint: You don't need it. You don't owe it.).

[Feuer Frei!]

For German-speaking colleagues, exclusive 5 minute interview with Architect Joachim Löw:

http://www.dfb.de/news/de/d-fifa-wm/video-joachim-loew-im-exklusiv-interview/60796.html

[Nippelspanner]

See? There is something very wrong with people if they were made to feel obligated to qualify their remarks about A GAME like that. It's sick. Very. (Nothing personal Nippelspanner. I know the drill. And you should start seeing it as such. Here's a hint: You don't need it. You don't owe it.).
Err...yeah...right...

[Skybird]

heartc,

no, you are not on my ignore list anymore since a longer time already, and back then I did put you there over a very rude, almost racist offence - not because of a disagreement in opinion. I have not forgotten, but forgiven.

I get you point in what you write above. I agree with much of it.

I cannot remember that I ever would have qualified for a description of thinking that "anything anti-American is good", as you put it. Like I also never were a socialist, like Neal some days ago indicated he thought I were, years ago. I am just critical on some things on which many Americans are uncritical.

When I was at school, in my teen days, I dreamed of immigrating to the US. It may not have been realistic, but unripe juvenile fantasizing - but I had a 5x5cm US flag on my school bag, and I admired Reagan. That socialist and anti-American I was, when I was 16, 17. :O: and that in West-Berlin (and that was an anti-American place indeed).

It's just that I grew older and started to see things more differentiated. :)

With my Leistungskurs English from school we once visited a musical performance of the theatre group of the German-American John F. Kennedy school in West-Berlin, almost all on stage were Americans. Their singing and dancing semi-professional! That was such a stunning performance, far superior to anything I had ever seen from being done in the various German schools I knew, that after that I was even more determined, for some time, to move to America one day. I asked my teacher about it, a nice and wonderful older lady that we truly loved and admired, her whole family had immigrated to Florida - she was the only one who later returned back to Germany. She did me a good service in getting me grounded again. The other help was my Japanese mentor and combat trainer at that time, whose family had been scattered across all the globe, with members having lost knowledge about and contact to each other.

[Jimbuna]

Watched the game whilst in York at the SubSim Meet and must say I was impressed by how hard the Argentinians made it for the Germans but in the end I thought the best team in the tournament came out the worthy winners....well done Germany.



[/I]I started to doubt him over the past 12 months or so. I did him wrong, obviously.

You sure did, even with the benefit of hindsight :yep::)



I reward FIFA the award for the most stoned junky of the tournament!

I'd certainly second that :yep:

[Skybird]

http://cdn1.spiegel.de/images/image-725404-thumb-fvjt.jpg

Thread closed. :O:

[Skybird]

Ein hamma noch...!

http://media1.faz.net/ppmedia/aktuell/2686472671/1.3047051/article_multimedia_overview/gemein-dieser-kuchen-bereitet-keinem-argentinier-vergnuegen.jpg

:har:
This cake is not the ideal booby prize to comfort unhappy Argentinian fans, I suppose...?!

[Jimbuna]

Probably leave a bad taste in the mouth.

[Skybird]

I just read that the teams of Germany and Argentina are about to fight over the ball once again very soon: they do a match in Germany on September 3rd.

:88)

The match was already planned during Spring. At that time probably nobody wpuld have expected that it would be the champion versus the vice-champion.

[Skybird]

The ball rolls well for the German national teams: now the national team of the under 19 years olds has become European Champions, in a quite superior tournament performance that was said to be outclassing all others.

[Feuer Frei!]

You probably already knew Sky but Philip Lahm has retired :shifty:

Best right back in the game for a number of years,
Amazing consistency,
Always reliable.
The team will get through this retirement of course but what a hole to fill.

[Skybird]

He said he would have done so even if they would not have won the world cup, and that the team does not need him anymore, but the youngster need to chose someone from their age group to be their "Leitwolf" for the coming years. Perfect timing by Lahm, who now already gazes at the years after he ended his career.

The youngster's Euro trophy should be a promise that there is not much to worry about retiring key personnel. Plenty of good players seem to follow.

[BossMark]

Sick of FIFA and it's corruption, Gary Lineker has urged England to boycott future tournaments.

With the current players, I wouldn't worry about needing to boycott, Gary.

[Jimbuna]

http://s27.postimg.org/c4ecw5zyr/image.jpg (http://postimage.org/)