Malaysia airlines B777 missing

[Oberon]

http://ning.pinkfroot.com:81/images/v2/live/full/5983902:Photo:292694.jpg

MEDIA STATEMENT released at 7.24am/8 Mar 2014 MH370 Incident

Sepang, 8 March 2014: Malaysia Airlines confirms that flight MH370 has lost contact with Subang Air Traffic Control at 2.40am, today (8 March 2014).

Flight MH370, operated on the B777-200 aircraft, departed Kuala Lumpur at 12.41am on 8 March 2014. MH370 was expected to land in Beijing at 6.30am the same day. The flight was carrying a total number of 227 passengers (including 2 infants), 12 crew members.

Malaysia Airlines is currently working with the authorities who have activated their Search and Rescue team to locate the aircraft.


Let's hope it's a maintenence fault that's caused loss of communication...but it doesn't look promising. :nope:

[CCIP]

:(

Hoping for the best!

Here is the flightaware log for this flight: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/MAS370

[Oberon]

Looks like the track ends over land, that increases the chance of finding something, even if it's just...well... :nope:

[CCIP]

Yeah, and it also ends right at cruise level (where the plane just got) and full speed, so whatever it was, it seems rather sudden.

[krashkart]

No bueno. :hmmm:

[CCIP]

Also worth pointing that this plane can't simply "disappear" because of a small fault. No ADS-B, no SSR, no ACARS, no radio comms - slim chances all of those would go off from a maintenance fault (even a major one) without alarm immediately being raised, and it should've been also on radar where it was.

[CCIP]

Updates from the airline: http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/dark-site.html

The most recent update effectively confirms that the aircraft went down :(

[krashkart]

No bueno. :(

[swamprat69er]

Not good at all.

[CCIP]

meanwhile, the BBC has a terrible taste in choosing their front page ads :/\\!!

http://i.imgur.com/drPNcbH.jpg

[fireftr18]

Prayers for the families. :wah:

[Oberon]

Dang, and at cruising altitude it does not bode well for survivors, not that miracles don't happen, but the odds are against it.
It'll be the first 777 to be lost whilst at altitude, the other hull-loss incidents have all been on landing or on the ground. If there was no indication of trouble before loss of contact then it must have been a massive structural failure...deliberate or otherwise.

Unfortunately Flightradar24s coverage has the aircraft contact lost half-way between Malaysia and Vietnam, in the sea:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t31/10007379_678741775498582_1734814062_o.jpg

There should be a press conference shortly.

[GoldenRivet]

for starters, as great as flight aware is, its not always that accurate. I have reviewed flights of my own that have suddenly zigged out into then ext state when i canceled IFR or flight following. Other times i have seen places where my route just completely stopped tracking (usually with a change from one ARTCC to another ARTCC while en route) giving the appearance that my flight vanished at cruise altitude.

I wouldnt jump to the conclusion that just because the flightaware.com route ends at a specific point that this is an accurate indication as to where the aircraft went down.

We can observe one thing though, it theoretically reached cruise altitude.

In that region of the world i would assume volcanic ash to be a culprit if there was recent volcanic activity (speedbird 9 anybody?)

another culprit, especially in the 200 series would be the un-commanded turbine rollback. however its unlikely as it should have been fixed through service bullitins and Airworthiness Directives requiring installation of fuel pump heaters if i remember correctly.

Super cooled water/ice formation which overwhelmed the aircraft's anti-ice de-ice systems a la Air France a few years ago could be to blame.

or an act of terrorism is always to be considered.

that said, it is rare that a plane crashes in the cruise phase of flight unless some sort of mid-air collision or major mechanical malfunction takes place. As these crashes tend to occur during takeoff or approach/ landing.

Im sure updates will begin to stream in soon as search efforts proceed.

[Madox58]

We probably all know where it is. We just don't want to be the one to say it first.

[GoldenRivet]

with luck, they encountered volcanic ash which overwhelmed the engines and they ditched intact and we get a "miracle on the hudson" event

[CCIP]

for starters, as great as flight aware is, its not always that accurate. I have reviewed flights of my own that have suddenly zigged out into then ext state when i canceled IFR or flight following. Other times i have seen places where my route just completely stopped tracking (usually with a change from one ARTCC to another ARTCC while en route) giving the appearance that my flight vanished at cruise altitude.

I wouldnt jump to the conclusion that just because the flightaware.com route ends at a specific point that this is an accurate indication as to where the aircraft went down.


Yeah, definitely. Both flightaware and flightradar24 rely on volunteers with receivers to get their data, in this case ADS-B data, and so often they'll only track the aircraft as far as those receivers (which are mostly consumer-level hardware) and publically-available data will allow. They also can only track flights with filed plans and their software assumes that the aircraft is flying as filed.

That rough map location seems reasonable though, because reports say the plane never contacted the Vietnam ARTCC.

And I am concerned because even with engines out or other similar failures, at least one of their communication systems should've given a report. Even Air France 447 was sending automated ACARS reports as it was going down (though there was no engine failure there, to be fair). The fact that nearly 7 hours after losing contact the airline still didn't know where the aircraft was is very troubling to say the least.

[Madox58]

I'd think there were so many Eyes on flights in that area of the Globe that someone has a pretty good clue.
:hmmm:

[Admiral Halsey]

How long can the bird stay in the air fully fueled? If nothing is heard from her when that time is up THAT'S when you should really start worrying.

[CCIP]

How long can the bird stay in the air fully fueled? If nothing is heard from her when that time is up THAT'S when you should really start worrying.

Well for one, it's unlikely to have been fully fueled - doesn't make sense economically (carrying extra fuel makes you burn more fuel), and usually airlines plan fuel carefully and have very good tools for getting it loaded right. Typically you just have the required fuel, plus 1 hour (or a little more) in reserve.

The last MAS statement was more than 4 hours after the flight was scheduled to arrive in Beijing and more than 8 hours after lost contact. It would be on the ground by now one way or another.

[CCIP]

Huh, latest statement from the airline includes...

There has been speculation that the aircraft has landed at Nanming. We are working to verify the authenticity of the report and others.

I wouldn't bet too much on it, but it is a glimmer of hope in a dim situation at least :(

[Admiral Halsey]

Well for one, it's unlikely to have been fully fueled - doesn't make sense economically (carrying extra fuel makes you burn more fuel), and usually airlines plan fuel carefully. Typically you just have the required fuel, plus 1 hour (or a little more) in reserve.

The last MAS statement was more than 4 hours after the flight was scheduled to arrive in Beijing and more than 8 hours after lost contact. It would be on the ground by now one way or another.

Well that sucks. Only thing I can really says is thank god it wasn't an A380. Just one of those crashing with all souls lost would be worse then Tenerife disaster.

[krashkart]

My prayer is out and I have a few more to go. The news will have more information for us soon.

[GoldenRivet]

Assuming they were on someones radar screen for it to just suddenly go away screams catastrophic circumstances which occurred suddenly.

consider this though, flying through a volcanic ash cloud ( There are current eruptions in the area) could have eroded off various comm and transponder antennas to a point of rendering them incapable of transmitting.

something to think about

It would have been dark... and ash does not show up on radar. The first indication of entering it would likely be static discharges and st elmos fire

[Admiral Halsey]

Assuming they were on someones radar screen for it to just suddenly go away screams catastrophic circumstances which occurred suddenly.

consider this though, flying through a volcanic ash cloud ( There are current eruptions in the area) could have eroded off various comm and transponder antennas to a point of rendering them incapable of transmitting.

something to think about

It would have been dark... and ash does not show up on radar. The first indication of entering it would likely be static discharges and st elmos fire

Well as CCIP stated above even if the thing was fully fueled it would already be on the ground one way or another by now. Also aren't flights supposed to be routed around Volcanic ash and even be grounded if the circumstances call for it?

[Madox58]

How long can the bird stay in the air fully fueled?

All the way to the crash site.

[GoldenRivet]

Well as CCIP stated above even if the thing was fully fueled it would already be on the ground one way or another by now. Also aren't flights supposed to be routed around Volcanic ash and even be grounded if the circumstances call for it?

as there is no moisture in volcanic ash, it is invisible to radar, thus it has to be tracked visually or by satellite. in the dark this is tough to do without infra red.

its all academic until they find pieces

i'd suppose it exploded

[GoldenRivet]

UPDATE [11:32am]: VN Express, Vietnam's largest news site, reports that Vietnam Emergency Rescue Center just announced it has found signal of the missing plane at 9.50am 120 miles South West of Ca Mau cape, the Southern-most point of Vietnam.

The signal is believed to be the ELT (Emergency Locator Transmittor) , which can be activated manually by the flight crew or automatically upon impact.

http://my.news.yahoo.com/mas-aircraft-goes-missing--says-airline-023820132.html

If they are in fact picking up the ELT the transmitter cannot be far from the surface of the water... they are close to closing in on the location of the crash i think.

[CCIP]

Yeah, I'm also seeing reports that the Vietnamese navy possibly saw it go down near an island.

[GoldenRivet]

ccip

fsx? noticed the virtual airline sig

i was ironically downloading a 777-300 for fsx when i saw this thread

[Oberon]

I'm just browsing pprune, which is really the place to go for updates and information in a time like this, according to one member who alledgedly flew the area at around the same time:

We entered HCM FIR last night westbound at FL340, passing Moxon (the boundary with WSJC) at about 1720Z, transitted HCM and Phnom Penh and exited, passing overhead PNH at about 1810Z.

We experienced no problem with VHF Comms with HCM Centre, and VVTS CPDLC/ADS also worked fine. We encountered no adverse wx - in fact it was a beautiful clear NE monsoon night, though there was some limited scattered lightning visible way off to the SW.

121.5 was congested, with both HCM Centre and another MH flight trying to contact MH370. HCM Centre were also making repeated attempts to contact the aircraft on the normal Centre frequency.

Apparently the aircraft involved suffered a scrape in 2012 with another aircraft which resulted in the following wing damage:

http://pic.feeyo.com/pic/20120810/201208100951017177.jpg

There are also reports that Chinese state media has censored the name of a Muslim Chinese artist who had been at an art conference, and reports that an italian man called Luigi Maraldi who is on the published passenger list was not actually on the flight and had reported his passport stolen in Thailand in 2013.

Given that the weather conditions in the area were good, there were no other reports of volcanic ash and the crew had no time to broadcast a distress signal, we're likely looking at a sudden airframe disintegration.
This is either caused through deliberate or non-deliberate means, however at the moment, given the recent attack in Kunming, as well as the passport information that has come to light...I'm going to put my foot out there and say that we're looking at a terrorist incident.
I can't completely rule out an accidental loss of airframe through a previously unknown structural defect, but something about this just keeps bringing me back to a terrorist attack.

[swamprat69er]

The last that CTV up here has is that it is down near Viet Nam about 120 nm away in the water. VN is picking up ELT signals.
2 oil slicks spotted off Viet Nam

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/two-oil-slicks-spotted-close-to-where-malaysian-airlines-flight-vanished-1.1720253

[Skybird]

German news refers to info that there were two passengers who have not boarded the plane. Theories that it was a terror attack get fuelled by that. The two men have been identified, an Italian and an Austrian, whose passports had been stolen 2 and 1 year ago while they stayed in Malaysia. Both men seem to have nothing to do with the event, but their identities seem to have been abused.

Google shows two conflicts that Malaysia internally is busy with, both about Borneo, where there is a standoff with Philippine "Landbesetzer" that already led to exchanges of gunfire last year, and a radical Islamic group that wants to re-erect a Caliphate again, or a Sultanate. Malaysia by 60% is Islamic, with Buddhdists, Daoists, Confuzianists, Hindi and Christians also being present, but discriminated by law and administrative practice.

[Oberon]

One is a co-incidence, two is suspicious.
With Kunming last week as well, the odds are falling more towards this not being accidental.

[Admiral Halsey]

Looks like the Italian passenger really wasn't on the flight after all. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/missing-malaysian-airlines-flight-mh370-3220170?utm_content=buffer8fb26&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer. It also seems that an Austrian who was supposedly aboard also had his passport stolen and is apparently safe. Really starting to look like this wasn't an accident now.

[Jimbuna]

Just on local radio...search efforts are concentrated in the area of the two oil slicks.

[GoldenRivet]

The passport news is interesting.

If it were an act of terrorism, why blow up or hijack the aircraft in the middle of the ocean? Seems you would want to there to be a lot of people see the airplane explode or have them witness some sort of devastating 9/11 type attack in China. Unless they managed to hijack the aircraft and it crashed during a struggle to regain control

I can tell you it is damned hard to get into the flight deck of an airliner without just being let in freely. And i dont know how security is over there but in the US you'd have a hard time smuggling curry spice in your bag or shoes etc let alone an explosive device.

Why no terrorist groups claiming responsibility? they usually claim responsibility for every little thing whether they are responsible for it or not.

[Penguin]

Why no terrorist groups claiming responsibility? they usually claim responsibility for every little thing whether they are responsible for it or not.

They propably got already dozens of claims by some obscure groups, weirdos and general maniacs. That's why groups like the IRA or ETA always used code words to inform the authorities and press to emphasize their warnings and claims.
Regarding todays means of communication, I would assume that fake claims probably grew during the past years,

[Oberon]

The passport news is interesting.

If it were an act of terrorism, why blow up or hijack the aircraft in the middle of the ocean? Seems you would want to there to be a lot of people see the airplane explode or have them witness some sort of devastating 9/11 type attack in China. Unless they managed to hijack the aircraft and it crashed during a struggle to regain control

I can tell you it is damned hard to get into the flight deck of an airliner without just being let in freely. And i dont know how security is over there but in the US you'd have a hard time smuggling curry spice in your bag or shoes etc let alone an explosive device.

Why no terrorist groups claiming responsibility? they usually claim responsibility for every little thing whether they are responsible for it or not.

That is the tricky thing, it certainly doesn't seem as though it was a hijacking of any sort since no beacons were activated prior to the aircraft impacting the sea, which would indicate an explosive device of some kind if this is indeed terrorism. In regards to why it detonated over the sea instead of over land, that is something that is harder to answer definitively, since we don't know the device involved, however a premature detonation is entirely possible, or perhaps incorrect timing.
However, I still can't rule out a catastrophic structural failure, despite the passport leads, when AF447 went down the crew didn't have time to broadcast any messages but the aircraft itself was still transmitting until it hit the water, for an aircraft to just suddenly stop transmitting dead mid-flight points to a rapid event...which, one hopes gave those who have lost their lives a swift exit rather than one of terror.
This reminds me more than a bit of TWA800, if I'm honest...

[Admiral Halsey]

This reminds me more than a bit of TWA800, if I'm honest...
You think the 777's might have some flaw with the fuel tank like that 747 had? Then again why the lack of debris from the flight? Even if the thing crashed into the ocean whole you'd expect some stuff to have floated to the surface by now. Something just isn't adding up and I don't like it.

[Oberon]

You think the 777's might have some flaw with the fuel tank like that 747 had? Then again why the lack of debris from the flight? Even if the thing crashed into the ocean whole you'd expect some stuff to have floated to the surface by now. Something just isn't adding up and I don't like it.

If they do then it'll be a first for them, the 777s have had a damn good record of service. It's not so much the cause that is bringing back memories, but the whole rapidity of the incident.

[Admiral Halsey]

If they do then it'll be a first for them, the 777s have had a damn good record of service. It's not so much the cause that is bringing back memories, but the whole rapidity of the incident.

Wasn't that crash that killed 3 last year the first time a 777 had a fatal accident? As for the whole rapidity of it this is starting to remind me of that Air France flight that crashed a few years ago. No distress signal or anything from the pilots and the plane was transmitting right until it hit the ocean.

[Oberon]

Wasn't that crash that killed 3 last year the first time a 777 had a fatal accident? As for the whole rapidity of it this is starting to remind me of that Air France flight that crashed a few years ago. No distress signal or anything from the pilots and the plane was transmitting right until it hit the ocean.

That was more pilot error than mechnical error, they were doing a manual landing and came in too low and slow. I mean, I'm not saying the 777 is 'unsinkable', what goes up has to come down after all, but it's been flying since '94-'95 and has only had three hull losses in that time, with only two deaths (from that Asiana flight) caused.
The Air France flight has some similarities, however the plane was transmitting until it crashed, this flight just stopped transmitting, one minute normal operations, the next gone. In that respects it's more like TWA800 and Pam Am 103, both of which were caused by completely different things, however both of which occurred so quickly that the pilots weren't able to take any action, nor was the on board equipment able to transmit any data. Whatever happened to this aircraft, it's rather likely that the hull disintegrated at 35,000 ft which means that the debris will be spread out over quite a wide area. Of course, until the data recorder is recovered, this is pure speculation, which is at this time about all we can do.

[Skybird]

The passport news is interesting.

If it were an act of terrorism, why blow up or hijack the aircraft in the middle of the ocean? Seems you would want to there to be a lot of people see the airplane explode or have them witness some sort of devastating 9/11 type attack in China. Unless they managed to hijack the aircraft and it crashed during a struggle to regain control

I can tell you it is damned hard to get into the flight deck of an airliner without just being let in freely. And i dont know how security is over there but in the US you'd have a hard time smuggling curry spice in your bag or shoes etc let alone an explosive device.

Why no terrorist groups claiming responsibility? they usually claim responsibility for every little thing whether they are responsible for it or not.

If it was a terror strike, then no hijack but a suicide attack, with explosives in hand luggage. Air port security is not flawless. It got reported in our newspapers yesterday that German jihadist mummies used to shuttle between Germany and Syria - with AK47 magazines, ammo and rifle scopes in their suitcases. Repeatedly. Also, many jihadist brides, age as low as 15, are flying to Syria from Germany, to serve as comfort women (and while that is reported over here, media cry crocodile tears about precious jihadist lives being used and killed as cannon fodder by Syrian jihadist veterans. I would say we are lucky they turn out the madness inside of them over there, instead of here in Germany. If they survive and return to Germany with all their additional experience in terror and fighting and indoctrination - then we have a problem with them. Not when they still are easily disposable). But I stray off. Sorry.

[Admiral Halsey]

it's rather likely that the hull disintegrated at 35,000 ft which means that the debris will be spread out over quite a wide area.Which is why them only having found an oil slick is so strange. You'd think they'd have found something other then that by now.

[TarJak]

Which is why them only having found an oil slick is so strange. You'd think they'd have found something other then that by now.

Only if they are looking in the right place and there's something afloat to find. Speculation is pointless uunless there is evidence to back it up.

[Admiral Halsey]

Only if they are looking in the right place and there's something afloat to find. Speculation is pointless uunless there is evidence to back it up.
Do you realize how much stuff in planes float? Heck even bits of the fuselage can float. If it exploded in mid-air there should be wreckage everywhere including in that oil slick.Heck even if it crashed into the water whole there should still be a nice amount of wreckage.

[GoldenRivet]

They keep calling it an oil slick. Those engines don't need that much oil that it would cover a 6+ mile swath of ocean as reported. Most likely it's jet fuel.

If it is jet fuel. The plane came down in big pieces I would think, because an explosive large enough to disentegrate the airplane in flight probably would have resulted in most of the fuel burning up I would imagine.

They are going to start finding bits of her soon. Insulation. Plastics. Luggage. Debris. Possibly folks in rafts if lucky. That stuff floats. And Boeing can look at most small debris and determine if it's a 777 part.

Whatever it was probably happened fast. Think of the Alaska flight that had the elevator jack screw issue off the California coast. Those guys even had time to transmit their situation. And they were in a steep dive.

Double engine failure would have killed electrics. But they would have had RATs to generate power. In that scenario, would the RATs generate sufficient power to broadcast mayday over long distances? Perhaps they were calling and nobody heard them.

Catastrophic structural failure due to metal fatigue associated with pressurization issues

Volcanic ash

Terrorism

Flight control malfunction or failure

Lots of possibilities on the chalk board, now begins the long task of ruling them out one by one and determining the cause of the accident.

[GoldenRivet]

Just read that new information indicates military radar tracked the aircraft and that the aircraft may have tried to turn back to its departure point.

http://news.yahoo.com/air-force-chief-malaysia-jet-may-turned-back-060410114.html

If they lost power, the transponder would have stopped transmitting, the ATC radar would have lost tracking except for a "primary" target. Depending on the range, civilian radar might not have picked up the primary target without a working transponder.

Defense radar might have though... Hmmmmm

EDIT**

Appears to be confirmed. Defense radar indications at this point are said to have shown the aircraft making a turn back towards its departure point.

[Admiral Halsey]

So the jet was trying to turn back? Ok somethings really not right here. That little air-powered generator they have should be powerful enough to give full radio broadcast strength. So if it was a double engine failure the question becomes why didn't the pilots send out a mayday?

[CCIP]

I'm pretty sure all the emergency-crucial radio equipment is designed to run off the batteries, much like the black box.

[TarJak]

Do you realize how much stuff in planes float? Heck even bits of the fuselage can float. If it exploded in mid-air there should be wreckage everywhere including in that oil slick.Heck even if it crashed into the water whole there should still be a nice amount of wreckage.
I do. I worked for an airline for over 16 years.

Is there any evidence at present that the oil slick is from the aircraft? None mentioned in any of the media I've seen. Given the latest revelation about the military radar, it is just as likely that the oil slick came from a ship as from an aircraft and that they've been looking in the wrong place. As I said, unless there is evidence, speculation is pointless.

Based on this, they are looking into another two passengers as well as the ones with the stolen passports: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-09/malaysia-looking-at-possible-terror-link-in-plane-disappearance/5308688

[Skybird]

They already were almost above the coast of Vietnam when contact disappeared. If they turned back there (south) because there was a technical problem, this would have meant to cross all that open ocean again in search for that emergency landing site. Makes little sense.

Possible maybe that what appears to be a turn, was an involuntary turn already, with any kind of a problem present and having taken out comms and rudder already before.

[Jimbuna]

They already were almost above the coast of Vietnam when contact disappeared. If they turned back there (south) because there was a technical problem, this would have meant to cross all that open ocean again in search for that emergency landing site. Makes little sense.

Possible maybe that what appears to be a turn, was an involuntary turn already, with any kind of a problem present and having taken out comms and rudder already before.

My thoughts also...that 'turn' could have been the start of an uncontrolled steep dive.

[GoldenRivet]

My thoughts also...that 'turn' could have been the start of an uncontrolled steep dive.

Possible. :hmmm:

[Skybird]

My thoughts also...that 'turn' could have been the start of an uncontrolled steep dive.
Or an Immelmann.

:D

[swamprat69er]

Or an Immelmann.

:D

:DI really can't see a 777 doing an Immelmann, but stranger things have been know to happen.:D A split 'S' maybe?

[McBeck]

What about a crazy Ivan?

[Oberon]

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/177/847/vlcsnap-2011-09-24-19h52m43s184.png

[Jimbuna]

Or an Immelmann.

:D

That's absolutely shocking :nope:
















but I like it :)

[NeonSamurai]

I'm not sure if it is very appropriate to be making jokes relating to the probable deaths of a couple hundred people.

[Skybird]

I'm quite sure they did not hear us. ;)

What is not appropiate to do for sure is telling jokes into the face of affected people. All others I do not necessarily believe their consternation. Most people express dismay not because they indeed feel it, not to mention that they are not affected at all, but because they know it is expected of them due to social conventions. And such conventions can get deeply internalised.

Well.

Me and conventions.

Not always an ideal combo.

[Madox58]

This is the GT area no? When is anything here 100% serious?
:hmmm:

Is it funny the plane went down? No.
Do people make funnies to over come the feeling of helplessness? Yes.

I was about to post that Aliens placed a tractor beam on the Aircraft causing the turn.
About as good as all the other speculations. But I did resist that temptation.

I did hear Malaysia Airlines has a damaged aircraft for sale.
I've a report the Pilot was Sum Ting Wong and the Co-Pilot was Ho Lee Chit.
:haha:

(OK. Give me an infraction)
:D

[NeonSamurai]

I wasn't planning on handing out any infractions (not unless things get really offensive here). Just making a point that maybe some empathy or at least a little decorum is called for in this situation.

You never know who here may have had family on that plane.

[CCIP]

I wasn't planning on handing out any infractions (not unless things get really offensive here). Just making a point that maybe some empathy or at least a little decorum is called for in this situation.

You never know who here may have had family on that plane.

Exactly, remember that SUBSIM is a public place with a worldwide audience in that sense after all. Be nice, guys!

[Madox58]

I'm sorry. I'm getting confused now.
:huh:

I can't joke about a plane going down but I can post about survivors being shot up with better models and such.

Am I to assume there is a time limit as to when it's OK to face and deal with life's unfair turns?

[Herr-Berbunch]

Looking even more suspicious now, the two travellers on stolen passports had their tickets bought at the same time and both were booked for a flight to Europe on Saturday from Beijing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26506961

Also, spotted in the region of that 'oil' slick -

"We received information from a Vietnamese plane saying that they found two broken objects, which seem like those of an aircraft, located about 50 miles to the south-west of Tho Chu Island," an unnamed official from the National Committee for Search and Rescue told AFP news agency.

[Madox58]

:har:
Some one knows what I'm laughing about!
:D

[Skybird]

I wasn't planning on handing out any infractions (not unless things get really offensive here). Just making a point that maybe some empathy or at least a little decorum is called for in this situation.

You never know who here may have had family on that plane.

Or may have had a closer relation to Michael Jackson. I remember that there was a comparable situation in the forum when he was found dead.

If I lose a loved one in some event - visiting subsim.com one day later and study the forums for the latest chatter, would be one of the last ideas I would have on mind. ;)

And the empathy and decorum - I reserve for the moment I stand eye to eye with somebody affected. That affects me, then, the presence of the other. But right now, the event is - just another piece of news on the news, like the massacres in africa, the Crimea crisis, and the news on the declining numberts of living tigers. Empathy needs the presence of the other. If there is no other and no personal involvement and no personal being-affected, then it is not empathy, but sentimentality.

I assume it comes at nobody's surprise that I am no friend of sentimentalities - and the pathetic symbolism and empty signal-setting in their wake.

But all that is quite academical. Honestly said, Neon, I only had the image of a triple-7 doing an Immelmann before my eyes, opposite direction to the comment about a "deep dive" before, and that amused me the same way it amuses me when Stan rolls a piano out of the window and throws it onto Oliver's head. Thgat does not mean I throw pianos out of windows and smash living people and stand by the window and laugh about them as well.

Since I have been at the receiviung end of such communications pobserved myself, regarding the fate of my mother or the dfetah of my girl long ago, I know how it feels and that it just is the way the world is running and that people live on their lives. I do not think about it, then, it triggers no perosnal emotional reaction. As long as they don't laugh me into my face while standing in front of me - THEN I take it personal, becasue then it is, for sure.

[Madox58]

I assume it comes at nobody's surprise that I am no friend of sentimentalities.
I think We shoud start an InterNational Club!
:haha:

[Jimbuna]

Late last night SkyNews reported a life raft had been spotted in the sea but that has since been classed as unrelated.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26510027

[BossMark]

As the mystery grows around 2 stolen passports and what appears to be a stolen plane vanishing into thin air, police have started door to door inquiries in Liverpool.

[TarJak]

Apparently samples of the oil slicks have been found to be ship fuel oil: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-10/malaysia-airlines-mh370-five-passengers-failed-to-board/5310874

[Oberon]

This case just gets more confusing by the hour, could it have hit the water intact and sunk intact? :hmmm: But then there would be liferafts full of people floating around.
If it was hijacked it would have appeared on a land based radar as it looked for somewhere to land, and if it broke apart mid-air then surely they would have found some wreckage by now.

[Skybird]

A private man has reported to the Malaysian authorities, saying that in the night he saw a white light moving in the sky, which looked different to the pattern of lights from airliners that usually are moving over his house. He then realised that the light did not move into a different direction, as usual, but towards the ocean, so a vertical movement, no horizontal. He did not thought any further about it, and went to bed, after all, it was just a distant light.

German news:. http://www.welt.de/vermischtes/weltgeschehen/article125625801/War-das-grelle-weisse-Licht-am-Himmel-die-Boeing.html

From this witness report, it seems possible that the plane hit the ocean like a falling brick, vertically. That would also explain why there was no emergency call. When an airliner falls vertically, and not gliding in some kind, you can imagine a thousand conditions on the flightdeck that made any emergency call for the crew impossible - if the crew even was still alive at that time, and the flightdeck consoles still functional.

[TheDarkWraith]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=755&pictureid=7406

[Tango589]

Heard on the news that the two men who boarded the plane with stolen passports were not 'of asian appearance, but black'. The plot thickens:hmmm:

[Herr-Berbunch]

The stolen passports may be a false lead, in another crash there was found to be 10 people travelling on stolen passports as part of illegal immigration, not terrorism.

[Jimbuna]

False passports are swiftly becoming 'par for the course'....for more reasons than many of us would understand.

[Admiral Halsey]

So it turned out that oil slick was just from a passing ship. In other news a man claimed to have seen what looked like the white light of a plane falling out of the sky. And finally it seems that an Iranian was the one who bought the tickets that were using the stolen passports for some "friends" of his. I still doubt it was a bombing since no debris have been spotted yet.

[Tchocky]

Still highly contradictory information coming out about exactly when/where radar and voice contact was lost. Also about the supposed contact via another MH pilot over 121.5 MhZ.

Impossible to speculate cause with anything other than blind guesswork right now.

First clue will be radar tapes and voice logs. Don't expect that for a couple of weeks.

[GoldenRivet]

Still highly contradictory information coming out about exactly when/where radar and voice contact was lost. Also about the supposed contact via another MH pilot over 121.5 MhZ.

Impossible to speculate cause with anything other than blind guesswork right now.

First clue will be radar tapes and voice logs. Don't expect that for a couple of weeks.

This has a lot to do with the strength of various radar systems.

Civil ATC probably has a large "blind spot" or an area of no radar coverage in the area where they had problems. This is why trans oceanic flights have to frequently transmit position reports in the blind.

a stronger radar might not have this lapse in coverage.

this is why civil ATC says radar contact was lost at point A while military radar says nope it was point B.

The aircraft i flew in part 121 operations had ACARS... it would generally transmit our position and stats every 10 minutes i guess. Sometimes you would hear it chirp in your headset... like a little scratch noise for a second and youd look at the ACARS screen and briefly see "XMIT" when this took place. Our system was land based like cell phones if i remember correctly. I loved ACARS because you could text message your dispatcher from virtually anywhere. "Weather delay, ATC directs us to hold at DELAY intersection, Fuel status 4800lb" and they would calculate our hold times new fuel requirements and coordinate diversions to alternate with our folks on the ground... that way we could focus on the immediate issues of the flight.

I've never flown trans oceanic... so i assume their ACARS systems are probably GPS based, if so... the airline should have a record of these position reports until things went south.

think of air france 447... the airline knew things were hitting the fan through the whole emergency situation. They had data.

also... what was it lik 8 or 10 days before they even spotted debris? could be a similar span of time here with this flight.

[Admiral Halsey]

Still highly contradictory information coming out about exactly when/where radar and voice contact was lost. Also about the supposed contact via another MH pilot over 121.5 MhZ.

Impossible to speculate cause with anything other than blind guesswork right now.

First clue will be radar tapes and voice logs. Don't expect that for a couple of weeks.

That pilot supposedly having contact with them is new. You have a link to the source of that news?

[GoldenRivet]

That pilot supposedly having contact with them is new. You have a link to the source of that news?

Yeah... i havnt heard that

[GoldenRivet]

What would be the logistics involved in google redirecting google earth satellites to take high resolution photos of the region so Google Earth users could search for debris?

didnt they do this with the search for steve fosset's crash?

[Admiral Halsey]

What would be the logistics involved in google redirecting google earth satellites to take high resolution photos of the region so Google Earth users could search for debris?

didnt they do this with the search for steve fosset's crash?

It can't be all that hard to do. Main problem I see is getting the sats into position to take the photos.

[Oberon]

Would depend on where the satellites are now, plus the magnification required, I think it's about a 100 mile radius (assuming a 777 has an unpowered glide ability of about 100 miles from FL350) and then you've got cloud cover to factor in as well.
I imagine the PRC has probably vectored in one or two of their satellites to cover the area, but it really is somewhat of a needle in a large haystack.
Right now we don't even know for certain that it went down in the sea, or that the location where ACARS stopped transmitting is the start point of any glide path.

Ah, just spotted this linked at pprune:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/11/us-malaysia-airlines-china-idUSBREA2A03V20140311

The PRC has deployed 10 satellites to scour the ocean, that should hopefully help a bit. :yep:


EDIT: Here's a bit of a disturbing video I found on pprune, a bit of an electronic Achilles heel in the 777.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLmzvF2qkDY

[Admiral Halsey]

Would depend on where the satellites are now, plus the magnification required, I think it's about a 100 mile radius (assuming a 777 has an unpowered glide ability of about 100 miles from FL350) and then you've got cloud cover to factor in as well.
I imagine the PRC has probably vectored in one or two of their satellites to cover the area, but it really is somewhat of a needle in a large haystack.
Right now we don't even know for certain that it went down in the sea, or that the location where ACARS stopped transmitting is the start point of any glide path.

Ah, just spotted this linked at pprune:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/11/us-malaysia-airlines-china-idUSBREA2A03V20140311

The PRC has deployed 10 satellites to scour the ocean, that should hopefully help a bit. :yep:


EDIT: Here's a bit of a disturbing video I found on pprune, a bit of an electronic Achilles heel in the 777.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLmzvF2qkDY
That video has me thinking. What if the plane didn't crash but instead landed on a hidden airport?

[GoldenRivet]

It would be pretty hard to hide an airport capable of supporting a 777 IMHO. They would need at least 8,000-10,000 foot of clear, mostly improved runway for the aircraft to return to the air, and probably fuel in place, and a large enough space to not only park the aircraft but hide it from the view of passing aircraft and satellites

then again maybe hiding such an aircraft facility isnt that difficult, i dunno?

The thought of it being stolen is pretty hair raising. I could only think of a couple of reasons a terrorist organization would have for stealing such an aircraft.

and i cannot think of a way to get into the flight deck in cruise flight to accomplish this feat. When i flew part 121 we would close the door before push back, and it wouldn't be re-opened until at the jet bridge at the destination. I assume this practice is pretty universal this day in age.

One might try to lure a member of the flight crew out of the cockpit somehow, but again... there are procedures for getting into and out the cockpit and reasons that warrant it and many reasons that dont.

A Terrorist desperate enough to get in might threaten to kill passengers one at a time until the door is opened... but we were always advised that more people would almost certainly die if we ever let the bastard in... and even if we did let them in is to be assumed that they would surely all die anyhow in the post 9/11 environment such as it is.

besides, in most situations the crew would have some warning that someone aboard was up to no good these days if an event as described above played out, and they would be able to communicate their plight. ie using the interphone to tell the captain "let me in or ill kill these people"

The only way that a hijacking theft of the aircraft would play out so fast that they couldnt issue a distress call, is (1) if all or most of the folks with the stolen passports were in on the plot (2) they were all seated as close to the cockpit door as possible (3) when, if for some reason the door was opened they all rushed it in an attempt to takeover the aircraft and the crew couldn't close it back fast enough (4) the hijackers had the requisite knowledge to render the aircraft's systems invisible to radar and other means of tracking with immediate effect.

hard to say where it is or what happened - its really all guess work until the authorities figure it out. and as we all know that could take a couple of years.

From yahoo news:

Evidence that typically might be spotted after a terrorist incident is lacking so far, said two U.S. officials. At the same time, the absence of clues isn't enough to rule out such an attack, said the officials, who asked not to be identified while discussing intelligence activities.
No Anomalies The early warning system for the North American Air Defense Command detected no anomalies related to Flight 370, said one of the officials. Norad's infrared and visual imagery can pick up heat sources such as explosions and missile launches, the official said.
U.S. intelligence agencies also haven't turned up a burst of chatter online or on the airwaves of the type that often follows an attack, the second official said.

[CCIP]

Yeah, the whole "stealing" theory is pretty unlikely to say the least. Anyone who has the resources to stealthily hijack and then conceal a 777 would easily have the resources to buy or lease a 777 of their own. So they wouldn't need the aircraft, and if they were out for anything/anyone on it, there are far easier ways of getting that before/after it's aboard the 777.

[Admiral Halsey]

Well it's got as much chance as being right as any other theory at the moment. Still shouldn't the black boxes be transmitting homing beacons or something like that?

[GoldenRivet]

Yes... they would

Initial reports indicated they were receiving signals from the black boxes. Is that no longer accurate?

[Admiral Halsey]

Yes... they would

Initial reports indicated they were receiving signals from the black boxes. Is that no longer accurate?

Where did you see that? I've been following this story since it started and not once did they mention them getting any signals from the black boxes.

[GoldenRivet]

very early on... its actually mentioned early in this thread i think

[Admiral Halsey]

Well they haven't mentioned that in anything else so it was probably false.

[GoldenRivet]

UPDATE [11:32am]: VN Express, Vietnam's largest news site, reports that Vietnam Emergency Rescue Center just announced it has found signal of the missing plane at 9.50am 120 miles South West of Ca Mau cape, the Southern-most point of Vietnam.

The signal is believed to be the ELT (Emergency Locator Transmittor) , which can be activated manually by the flight crew or automatically upon impact.

Page 2 post 27

the link provided in that posts has been updated repeatedly, the quotation from the article is no longer there that i can find

[TarJak]

The lack of wreckage found so far is most likely because they have not found the crash site yet because they've been looking in the wrong place. The delay due to the false lead on the oil slick means the chance of finding floating wreckage over the crash site is diminishing with every day that passes.

We're not going to know until we do. Once something of substance is found we'll hear about it soon enough.

[TarJak]

Crew meal service is the main weakness in cockpit security. There are protocols that cabin crew can use to pass a message if they are under duress to let the flight crew know of untoward events but if timed right an attacker near the cockpit could get close during crew getting their refreshments passed to them or when flight crew exit the cockpit for comfort stops.

The lack of demands by any terror group would indicate hijacking to be less likely though it can't be ruled out yet.

[Skybird]

Coincidence - or more? At the time of the event American authorities issued warnings that the 777's belly could rip open in midflight.

[Jimbuna]

Something definitive must come out sooner or later...surely :hmmm:

[CaptainHaplo]

Coincidence - or more? At the time of the event American authorities issued warnings that the 777's belly could rip open in midflight.

That is a little misleading. The FAA issued an AD regarding inspections for craft around a specific area - for cracks. There is nothing in the AD or associated data that says the "belly could rip open".

It definitely is coincidence- as the AD process was finalized just days ago and included public hearings and input from various operators - a process that takes months.

[Skybird]

http://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article125637394/US-Behoerde-warnt-vor-Aufplatzen-des-Boeing-Rumpfes.html


Das Verschwinden der Boeing 777 der Malaysia Airlines in Asien bleibt weiter ein großes Rätsel. Eine der möglichen Ursachen könnte ein rapider Druckverlust im Flugzeug und ein Aufbrechen der Hülle sein, die dann zum Absturz führen würde. Genau vor diesem Szenario warnt jetzt die US-Flugsicherheitsbehörde FAA, die für die Sicherheit der Boeing-Modelle zuständig ist.


Nach Recherchen der "Welt" hat die FAA jetzt eine erneute Warnung vor Rissen in der Außenhaut des Rumpfes von Boeing-777-Modellen in der Nähe einer Antenne veröffentlicht. Die Betreiber des Modells werden aufgefordert, die Stelle genau zu untersuchen. Sollte es dort Risse oder Korrosion geben und dies nicht behoben wird, könnte dies zu einem rapiden Druckverlust in der Kabine und letztlich zum Verlust der Stabilität der Flugzeugstruktur führen.

[Tango589]

http://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article125637394/US-Behoerde-warnt-vor-Aufplatzen-des-Boeing-Rumpfes.html

And now in English:

The disappearance of the Boeing 777 Malaysia Airlines in Asia remains a great mystery. One of the possible causes could be a rapid loss of pressure in the aircraft and a breaking of the shell to be, which would then lead to a crash. Just prior to that scenario now warns the U.S. FAA Aviation Safety Authority, which is responsible for the safety of Boeing models.


After researching the "world", the FAA has published a new warning from cracks in the outer skin of the fuselage of the Boeing 777 models in the vicinity of an antenna. The operators of the model are called upon to examine the place exactly. Should there enter cracks or corrosion, and this is not corrected, it could lead to a rapid loss of pressure in the cabin, and ultimately to the loss of stability of the aircraft structure.

You're welcome.:cool:

[Tchocky]

This Airworthiness Directive does not apply to MH370.

It applies to 777-200/200LR/300/300ER/777F models.

MH370 was a 777-200ER.

[Dread Knot]

Something definitive must come out sooner or later...surely :hmmm:

I'm beginning to think the Langoliers got 'em.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-AIIDnKkGMCM/Tcq9bxHWX1I/AAAAAAAABWk/4ZOP6nC6Xi4/s1600/Langoliers.jpg

[Stealhead]

Cracks do not necessarily render an aircraft unsafe.I know for a fact that a good number of C-5As have cracks (very very tiny ones) in areas towards the tail around the ramp doors.The ones that do have the cracks got closely inspected on a routine basis.

It all depends on the location of a crack even a very tiny one in the wrong place can be bad news in other cases it can only mean routine maintenance until the cracks reach a certain size.


A buddy from the Air Force worked in NDI (non destructive inspection) they are the ones who inspect aircraft fuselages and components for fatigue and cracks.Pretty cool job though I do not much about the science of it all.

I do know that flying a B-1B 20 feet of off the ground over a corn field is a very bad idea as corn cobs will get sucked up and destroy the engines causing the the Bone to crash in return causing the big wigs to pull the inspection records of the last person to have inspected the compressors(my friend) and have him sweat bullets until blame is laid on hot rod piloting and not a poor inspection job.

[TheDarkWraith]

The AirFarce and it's maintenance on airplanes is a total joke. I got called out to a base which houses E-3 and E-4 (the vice president's airplanes). I won't disclose the name of the base but those near that base know exactly which one I'm talking about.

Long story short they said a GPU (ground power unit) was not working correctly with the aircraft and the aircraft was constantly rejecting the power it was giving. Upon inspection of the GPU I found no fault. Upon inspection of the aircraft I found the aircraft plug loose with wires hanging out of it and the connections on the backside were also loose :huh: I brought this to their attention and guess what their reply was? That aircraft just came out of maintenance :dead: I wish I had the power to deem that aircraft not airworthy but alas there's no such thing when it comes to governmental aircraft :down:

[Admiral Halsey]

http://www.aol.com/article/2014/03/11/malaysian-military-says-missing-jet-changed-course/20847564/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D452744

So my theory of the plane being stolen somehow might not be that far from the truth after all. Something must have happened to the pilots and the people aboard the plane. I've also read that apparently some of the passengers cell phones are still ringing. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/03/11/malaysia-airlines-370-passengers-cell-phones/6285325/ That's the link for that story

[Oberon]

Still just not enough data to solidify any particular theory. :doh:

[TarJak]

More pointless speculation. :roll: Nature abhors a vacuum.

[Oberon]

Alas it is all we can do, but I think we're pretty much drained the well dry until something, anything physical is found from or of the aircraft.

[TarJak]

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-11/missing-malaysia-airlines-mh370-police-iranian-stolen-passport/5313658

Interpol says less chance of terrorism but CIA not so sure.

[Jimbuna]

My money would be on the report from military radar stating she turned west and could well be somewhere in the Malacca Strait.

More speculation to what is already posted I suppose.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/11/missing-plane-definitely-turned-back-malaysia

[swamprat69er]

My money would be on the report from military radar stating she turned west and could well be somewhere in the Malacca Strait.

The Malacca Strait is only 120' deep. The tail on the 777 is 60' 9" so there must be something to see.........................Somewhere............. .

[d@rk51d3]

http://www.aol.com/article/2014/03/11/malaysian-military-says-missing-jet-changed-course/20847564/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D452744

So my theory of the plane being stolen somehow might not be that far from the truth after all. Something must have happened to the pilots and the people aboard the plane. I've also read that apparently some of the passengers cell phones are still ringing. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/03/11/malaysia-airlines-370-passengers-cell-phones/6285325/ That's the link for that story

The phones aren't ringing. It's a false tone injected by the carrier to keep you on the line while they try to locate the phone you're trying to contact.

[Jimbuna]

The Malacca Strait is only 120' deep. The tail on the 777 is 60' 9" so there must be something to see.........................Somewhere............. .

Not if she disintegrated mid-air.

[swamprat69er]

Not if she disintegrated mid-air.
There still has got to be scrap around.

[Jimbuna]

There still has got to be scrap around.

Probably...but only in the right area.

[swamprat69er]

Probably...but only in the right area.
I wonder what the chances are that it went down in the big hills of Sumatra?

[Jimbuna]

I wonder what the chances are that it went down in the big hills of Sumatra?

We are all guilty of one thing...speculation, but the bottom line must be that an answer has to be found if at all possible, otherwise this will become yet another 'mystery of the world'.

[Dread Knot]

One possibility may be a Helios Airways 52 scenario where the crew and passengers were overcome by hypoxia due to a pressurization failure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522

Might explain the weird course change and the absence of emergency phone calls. Certainly doesn't explain the missing wreckage, though.

[TarJak]

The missing wreckage has already been explained. They're not looking in the right place.

[swamprat69er]

The missing wreckage has already been explained. They're not looking in the right place.
One thing is for certain. The missing wreckage will be in the last place they look.

[d@rk51d3]

Behind the fridge?

[Buddahaid]

One thing is for certain. The missing wreckage will be in the last place they look.

That's amazing! How do you know? :doh: :O:

[krashkart]

Behind the fridge?

I usually find all my missing wreckage right next to the car keys. Now where the heck did I leave my keys? :-?

[CCIP]

MAS said in their latest statement that they're "investigating allegations against the first officer".

Here are some of those allegations: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/11/malaysian-flight-mh370-copilot-teenagers-fariq-abdul-hamid

:hmmm:

[swamprat69er]

MAS said in their latest statement that they're "investigating allegations against the first officer".
Here are some of those allegations: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/11/malaysian-flight-mh370-copilot-teenagers-fariq-abdul-hamid
:hmmm:
The plot sickens.:hmm2:

[TarJak]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-12/malaysian-military-denies-detecting-missing-plane/5314212

Malaysian military denies reporting missing aircraft being way off course. About the only clear thing in this incident is that noone knows what's going on.

[Sailor Steve]

That's amazing! How do you know? :doh: :O:
Murphy's Law, subparagraph 13-C: It's always in the last place you look. :D

[CCIP]

And if it could be connected to the allegations (which the airline acknowledged it's aware of and is shocked by), let's not forget this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflot_Flight_593

[TorpX]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-12/malaysian-military-denies-detecting-missing-plane/5314212

Malaysian military denies reporting missing aircraft being way off course. About the only clear thing in this incident is that noone knows what's going on.

Looking at the map in the story, it shows two widely separated areas being searched, with a large gap (land and water) in between. Do they even know where to look?

[Oberon]

And now it's not changed course...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26527390

This is getting a smidge ridiculous now...perhaps MH370 was shot down by Flight 19? :doh:

[TarJak]

And now it's not changed course...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26527390

This is getting a smidge ridiculous now...perhaps MH370 was shot down by Flight 19? :doh:

Looks very like my post at #128. ;)

[Oberon]

Looks very like my post at #128. ;)

See?! Another mystery! :nope:

[Stealhead]

The AirFarce and it's maintenance on airplanes is a total joke. I got called out to a base which houses E-3 and E-4 (the vice president's airplanes). I won't disclose the name of the base but those near that base know exactly which one I'm talking about.

Long story short they said a GPU (ground power unit) was not working correctly with the aircraft and the aircraft was constantly rejecting the power it was giving. Upon inspection of the GPU I found no fault. Upon inspection of the aircraft I found the aircraft plug loose with wires hanging out of it and the connections on the backside were also loose :huh: I brought this to their attention and guess what their reply was? That aircraft just came out of maintenance :dead: I wish I had the power to deem that aircraft not airworthy but alas there's no such thing when it comes to governmental aircraft :down:


Must just be that particular unit I recon as in my experience they did things fairly well.

You are an AGE mechanic? What kind of GPU? AM32A-60 or AM32A-86 or maybe one of those clunker Cummins powered GPUs?:hmmm: The plug is at the end of the cable which is connected to the GPU so if nothing was wrong with the GPU and its power cable the plug being at the end then the connection the male end which is behind a door on the fuselage of the aircraft would have to have been the part that was damaged.If the plug in fact was damaged then that would have been a problem with the GPU. Of course I can think of several reasons why a GPU properly connected(sans a jacked up male connection) will not generate power for example on a dash 60 someone not opening the exhaust door and thus not closing the door switch which will cause the turbine not to spool I have seen that a few times.

What I am talking about:
plug female end which is part of the GPU http://www.aerospecialties.com/images/detailed/0/002160-3_002175-8_AC_GPU_Cable_03.jpg
Connector male end which is a permanent part of the aircraft in this case the GPU is plugged in normally there would be male connectors visible if the GPU plug was not connected(I believe in your story you mean to say that this end was wacko)
http://www.airteamimages.com/boeing-business-jet-bbj2_VQ-BOS_-private_122977_large.html

[Tchocky]

Uncorrelated primary radar plot spotted 45 minutes after last contact, 200nm NW of Penang.

Curious and curiouser.

[Jimbuna]

Looks very like my post at #128. ;)

See?! Another mystery! :nope:

Cue music

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b5aW08ivHU

[CCIP]

Uncorrelated primary radar plot spotted 45 minutes after last contact, 200nm NW of Penang.

Curious and curiouser.

Fishy. Hopefully there's enough in the radar data to at least figure out if that was a 777 or not.
It's still very weird, though, because that's at least another 45 minutes and some of it over land - the lack of any data coming from the plane in that period (including any attempted phone calls from passengers) is weird.

[Tchocky]

Generally not enough data. Seems it's a primary surveillance radar plot, which isn't your narrow-aperture high-resolution stuff that can ID an aircraft.

If it's anything like our primary radar all you'll get is bearing, groundspeed and climb rate. Not sure how well set up Malaysian military radar is.

This plot was spotted when they were revising radar tapes, which tells me one two things -

1) Malaysian Military controllers don't have full correlation of civil traffic
2) They should, but don't care if they don't

I'd like to know the secondary radar coverage map of that area. Somebody missed something

[Spiced_Rum]

Until I logged onto Facebook this morning I didn't realise so many of my friends were aviation accident investigators.

I saw this on the joke thread and thought it fairly accurate.

[Jimbuna]

I saw this on the joke thread and thought it fairly accurate.

Most recent report/speculation I've seen on the news is the possibility it could have flown an additional 3000 miles in any direction if the hull became depressurised and everyone was starved of oxygen rendering them unconscious.

[Oberon]

Most recent report/speculation I've seen on the news is the possibility it could have flown an additional 3000 miles in any direction if the hull became depressurised and everyone was starved of oxygen rendering them unconscious.

:har::har::har:

That's some glider! :salute:

[Jimbuna]

:har::har::har:

That's some glider! :salute:

Rather....that's some auto pilot...it has been known to happen before IIRC.

[mapuc]

You haven't seen me comment this thread, until now

I really don't like to speculate in things that is not in my area of knowledge.

I follow the news about the development of this missing airliner

and I have this evening heard many theories

Was taking a look at yesterdays program of Coast to Coast to see what they had on their program and guess what....

Markus

[Jimbuna]

What? :hmmm:

[TarJak]

It showed lots of thoeries but no answer of course.

[mapuc]

What? :hmmm:


Have made some small changes to my post hope you can read and understand it now.

Markus

[Oberon]

Rather....that's some auto pilot...it has been known to happen before IIRC.

True, but the aircraft would have continued to transmit merrily on its way, updating its course on ACARS until it crashed into the sea.

[Spiced_Rum]

Is there an equivalent to the Bermuda Triangle in the Far East? Maybe same position opposite Bermuda through the core of the planet. My maths is not good enough to work out the Lat and Long of an equivalent position. :ping:

[TG626]

There's the Dragon's Triangle, but it's not in the area we are talking about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%27s_Sea

[Jimbuna]

Have made some small changes to my post hope you can read and understand it now.

Markus

Sorry but I'm afraid I can't.

Probably me :doh:

[Dread Knot]

Looks like China may have found something...

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/03/world/malaysia-flight-map/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/interactive/2014/03/world/malaysia-flight-map/media/malaysia-chinese-sat-map.jpg

[Jimbuna]

Good update and a possible lead into where the debris is.

[mapuc]

Sorry but I'm afraid I can't.

Probably me :doh:

I even used google translate and subsims "check spelling"

:wah:

Markus

[CCIP]

If the aircraft had continued onward, besides squawking, it should've also stayed on course - it'd also almost certainly be flying on LNAV by that point, so it would be continuing on it's filed route. That's what happened with that Helios flight - out flew to it's destination and then entered a hold over Athens until running out of fuel.

[TarJak]

Looks like China may have found something...

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/03/world/malaysia-flight-map/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/interactive/2014/03/world/malaysia-flight-map/media/malaysia-chinese-sat-map.jpg

Good update and a possible lead into where the debris is.

No cigar yet...
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-13/aircraft-fail-to-find-floating-objects-in-hunt-for-mh370/5317810

[Jimbuna]

That's a pity...the odds are rising by the hour :hmmm:

[Oberon]

Well, if one solid piece of information has come out of this it's that the Malaysian transport ministry needs a complete restructure... :doh:

[BossMark]

The families of the missing passengers should be thankful that the flight wasn't with Ryanair

They would have been invoiced for the plane and possibly charged a finders fee

[Nippelspanner]

Or an Immelmann.

:D
A split 'S' maybe?
What about a crazy Ivan?
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/177/847/vlcsnap-2011-09-24-19h52m43s184.png
I was about to post that Aliens placed a tractor beam on the Aircraft causing the turn.
About as good as all the other speculations. But I did resist that temptation.

I did hear Malaysia Airlines has a damaged aircraft for sale.
I've a report the Pilot was Sum Ting Wong and the Co-Pilot was Ho Lee Chit.
:haha:
One thing is for certain. The missing wreckage will be in the last place they look.
Behind the fridge?
The families of the missing passengers should be thankful that the flight wasn't with Ryanair

They would have been invoiced for the plane and possibly charged a finders feeFeeling funny, asshats?

Maybe it's time to leave Subsim, land of hypocrisy, where dropping an F-Bomb might get you into the brig for breaking the holy moral code, yet making fun about horrible incidents like this - where the fate of hundreds of people is still unknown and hundreds of families live in agony - is totally funny.

I love dark humor.
I can laugh about just anything, yet there is always a right and a wrong time to pull such jokes. If you are unable to see this or have trouble with timing, don't do it.

This comment is not only directed to those quoted above, nor only in regard of this thread alone, but to everyone who used this or other incidents to pull stupid jokes, to get a moment of "oh isn't he funny!" fame.
And no, this has nothing to do with lightening the mood or trying to handle the situation, it has to do with being an *******, period.

I bit my tongue in the last couple of years when things like this happened, but when I think about how strict Subsim is regarding even the lightest profanity, I can only shake my head that things like this are, obviously, appropriate.

No need to light candles, shed crocodile tears, or be overly sentimental about it - people die, every friggin day, in thousands and due to terrible circumstances.

But should that be a green light for losing respect completely?
"They won't hear us!"
Oh good, then let's play the "what they don't know" game and drop morality overboard as soon as no one is looking, who cares right?
Like cheating on your partner... hey, who cares as long as she/he doesn't know, right?

Seven Hells, what do I care, just screw you guys! :nope:

[Oberon]

Myeah, it's a valid point, I really shouldn't have posted that. I'd delete it but what is done is done. Point taken and accepted.

[krashkart]

CBS is telling me that the plane pinged satellites for four hours after contact was lost. The search area has grown to a 2,500 mi. radius.

[Dread Knot]

If they don't find this plane by April 1st, it could make for interesting headlines that day.

[swamprat69er]

Feeling funny, asshats?

Maybe it's time to leave Subsim, land of hypocrisy, where dropping an F-Bomb might get you into the brig for breaking the holy moral code, yet making fun about horrible incidents like this - where the fate of hundreds of people is still unknown and hundreds of families live in agony - is totally funny.

I love dark humor.
I can laugh about just anything, yet there is always a right and a wrong time to pull such jokes. If you are unable to see this or have trouble with timing, don't do it.

This comment is not only directed to those quoted above, nor only in regard of this thread alone, but to everyone who used this or other incidents to pull stupid jokes, to get a moment of "oh isn't he funny!" fame.
And no, this has nothing to do with lightening the mood or trying to handle the situation, it has to do with being an *******, period.

I bit my tongue in the last couple of years when things like this happened, but when I think about how strict Subsim is regarding even the lightest profanity, I can only shake my head that things like this are, obviously, appropriate.

No need to light candles, shed crocodile tears, or be overly sentimental about it - people die, every friggin day, in thousands and due to terrible circumstances.

But should that be a green light for losing respect completely?
"They won't hear us!"
Oh good, then let's play the "what they don't know" game and drop morality overboard as soon as no one is looking, who cares right?
Like cheating on your partner... hey, who cares as long as she/he doesn't know, right?

Seven Hells, what do I care, just screw you guys! :nope:
Feeling funny, asshats?
Sticks and stones may break my bones.
But names will never hurt me.

[Oberon]

What would be the logistics involved in google redirecting google earth satellites to take high resolution photos of the region so Google Earth users could search for debris?

didnt they do this with the search for steve fosset's crash?

http://www.tomnod.com/nod/challenge/malaysiaairsar2014?source=malaysia

DigitalGlobe has spent the last five days uploading high-resolution satellite and aerial images to its Tomnod site that let people explore the seas for clues about the crash, as well signs of a wreckage or oil slick.
Images are then tagged by users and analysed by experts before the most significant sightings are sent to the search teams in Asia.

[mapuc]

I have read many different theories about this airliner. This one is from the Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet


"the possibility that a pilot or anyone else on board turned off the plane's transponder, to completely unnoticed able to bring the plane to a secret location and to use the plane at a later date, according to The Wall Street Journal .."

I don't know if some one else have mention this if so Then delete my post.

Markus

[krashkart]

I have read many different theories about this airliner. This one is from the Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet


"the possibility that a pilot or anyone else on board turned off the plane's transponder, to completely unnoticed able to bring the plane to a secret location and to use the plane at a later date, according to The Wall Street Journal .."

I don't know if some one else have mention this if so Then delete my post.

Markus

Maybe a bit far fetched at this point, but not outside the realm of possibility.

[Madox58]

Feeling funny, asshats?
Seven Hells, what do I care, just screw you guys! :nope:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjbGgVepDJs

[Admiral Halsey]

Anyone ever see the movie Thunderball? Could the jet have ditched softly enough to just sink and not let any debris float to the surface?

[Tchocky]

Lots of emergency equipment is water-activated, something would be left on the surface.


Regarding the engine monitoring satellite systems, there's still an awful lot of confusion about what happened there. The SATCOM pinger seems to have interrogated the satellite shortly after loss of radio communcations. If confirmed, all that tells us is that the aircraft was still in flight, it says nothing about location.

Picking up on a pprune thread - we don't know where it is, but the SATCOM pings (if true) give us a slightly better idea where it's not.

[Oberon]

I thought about a soft landing at first, but then any soft and controlled landing would have given the passengers and crew a chance to get the life-rafts out, and chances are the electronics would be working until it hit the water. In the 777 it's all fly-by-wire so whilst there are no mechanical back-ups there are electronic back-ups, however the fact that all communications were lost within a split second indicates a complete electrical failure within the aircraft of some sort in which case the pilots would have had very little to no control over the aircraft, thus making a smooth and soft landing very unlikely.
The lack of debris is somewhat unusual however, and the somewhat haphazard communications from the Malaysian transport ministry is not exactly helping matters, one can only hope that their search efforts are organised in a better manner. :hmmm:

[GoldenRivet]

In the pilot's lounge today we had a very disturbing scenario come up:

purely hypothetical of course and sounds like something out of a Tom Clancy novel, but troubling

an individual, possibly one of the crew, is paid off Millions of Dollars by a terror organization to steal the aircraft and redirect it to an airport large enough to support the aircraft, yet small enough to be closed during the late hour. The aircraft should be stolen in such a way which would create mystery, and focus world attention on searching for the crashed airliner hundreds of miles from it's actual position.

The ircraft is landed at said airfield where an individual on the terror cell payroll has likely held a job as an aircraft fueler for a number of months, possibly longer.

The aircraft is refueled, and flown with it's passengers aboard to Somalia.

The passengers are dispersed to Somalian terror groups and/or pirates to be held under strict secrecy

The aircraft is moved at low altitude through remote areas of Eastern Africa making its way to a remote airstrip, possibly in Egypt.

From here, the aircraft is deployed in an attack against the Israelis during the upcoming passover holiday

In the hours following the attack, a group claims responsibility for the attack, it comes to light that the passengers aboard the airliner were offloaded in Somalia where they are alive and being held for large ransoms.

The Israelis reeling from the attack are poised on a razor's edge... surrounded by enemies, the slightest aggressive move kicks off a war which could potentially topple the state of Israel, destabilize the entire region, and result in the death of millions.

[Admiral Halsey]

In the pilot's lounge today we had a very disturbing scenario come up:

purely hypothetical of course and sounds like something out of a Tom Clancy novel, but troubling

an individual, possibly one of the crew, is paid off Millions of Dollars by a terror organization to steal the aircraft and redirect it to an airport large enough to support the aircraft, yet small enough to be closed during the late hour. The aircraft should be stolen in such a way which would create mystery, and focus world attention on searching for the crashed airliner hundreds of miles from it's actual position.

The ircraft is landed at said airfield where an individual on the terror cell payroll has likely held a job as an aircraft fueler for a number of months, possibly longer.

The aircraft is refueled, and flown with it's passengers aboard to Somalia.

The passengers are dispersed to Somalian terror groups and/or pirates to be held under strict secrecy

The aircraft is moved at low altitude through remote areas of Eastern Africa making its way to a remote airstrip, possibly in Egypt.

From here, the aircraft is deployed in an attack against the Israelis during the upcoming passover holiday

In the hours following the attack, a group claims responsibility for the attack, it comes to light that the passengers aboard the airliner were offloaded in Somalia where they are alive and being held for large ransoms.

The Israelis reeling from the attack are poised on a razor's edge... surrounded by enemies, the slightest aggressive move kicks off a war which could potentially topple the state of Israel, destabilize the entire region, and result in the death of millions.

That's not only scary but somewhat plausible. Also with the news coming from Boeing that the jets automated maintenance whatevertheycallit thing sent an update after the jet was lost on radar something like that being true is increasing.

[CCIP]

Actually that's not very plausible at all, except as a Tom Clancy novel perhaps. Like I said, anyone with the resources to pull that off would be perfectly capable of buying or leasing a 777 or similar aircraft. Anyone with the skills and smarts to manage something this elaborate would be smart enough to not try it. If they just wanted a plane, there are large aircraft throughout Africa in states with hardly any effective security - Afriquiah Airways, for example, in near-lawless Libya run by militias has A330s and an A340 sitting around - that's the same state that recently had an anti-government militia smuggle out a tanker full of oil from a major port and sell it on the international market as the navy watched helplessly. Even in Somalia, there are aircraft that Al-Shabab has control of and could reach Israel if they needed to - probably with less chance of detection than a 777, at that.
And the trail from something like this would be too obvious in any case, which is why those with resources and beefs against Israel like that (e.g. Iran) haven't simply taken an airliner and flown it there. It's just a very convoluted and expensive plot for a very dubious result.

[Admiral Halsey]

Ok fair point. What if the jet was taken over and flown to an airport big enough to handle it but remote enough that no one would notice it there?

[CCIP]

Well, assuming for a moment that there were a conspiracy and cover-up, my money in fact would not be on some sort of international terrorism, but on China. China have the resources to do this, and they haven't been very open about the investigations of the recent Uighur terrorist attacks that have been happening there, with some people openly questioning whether those attacks might've been government set-up provocations to blame the Uighurs and divert nationalist anger at them (and away from the Communist Party and other problems). The Party is afraid of growing nationalism that it can't control. China also has good reasons to show off its authority in the South China Sea and put pressure on the states there with whom it has territorial beefs (including Malaysia), and that's what it's been doing last few days. China has those sorts of airports and those sorts of resources.
But I don't think China would risk going beyond that, and even if they were to set up that kind of plot, that plane would be gone for good with all evidence erased. They wouldn't try to use it in any other way.

That said, I also think that's pretty far-fetched. It's a very high cost and a very high risk for what would be merely a propaganda victory.

[TorpX]

Ok fair point. What if the jet was taken over and flown to an airport big enough to handle it but remote enough that no one would notice it there?

Wouldn't the passengers have been calling people while this was going on?

[TarJak]

Malaysia Airlines 'facing $500m damages claim' over missing flight http://ab.co/1nXQsk2

This lawyer sounds like a shark circling a wounded fish. :nope:

[Jimbuna]

Strange behaviour for a lawyer :hmmm:

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/6305/liaranimatedanimationli.gif

[TarJak]

Some of his comments are just plain disturbing. You can hear the tapping on his calculator working out his fat fees

[AVGWarhawk]

Snake in the grass comes to mind.

[Flamebatter90]

It is becoming harder to find the possible wreck as days pass by.

Good comparison would be the Titanic. When Carpathia reached the scene 4-6 hours after she sunk, they found little wreckage. The current carried it all over.

[Admiral Halsey]

It is becoming harder to find the possible wreck as days pass by.

Good comparison would be the Titanic. When Carpathia reached the scene 4-6 hours after she sunk, they found little wreckage. The current carried it all over.

There wasn't really that much wreckage from the Titanic to begin with though. Most of the stuff would be trapped inside her hull as she went down with it being impossible for it to float out of it.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Wouldn't the passengers have been calling people while this was going on?


If it was my plan, I'd pull the circuit breaker (or modern equiv.?) for the emergency mask deployment and decrease cabin pressure.

Incidently, today is the cut-off date for Boeing 737s (100 to 500) on the FAA register to have a couple of extra lights put in the cockpit to distinguish between T/O config and low pressurisation warnings that confused the Helios crew.

[GoldenRivet]

[/INDENT]If it was my plan, I'd pull the circuit breaker (or modern equiv.?) for the emergency mask deployment and decrease cabin pressure.

This^

one switch or valve operated in the cockpit would do it.

Then you could adjust the cabin altitude or hit the pressurization dump switch and bam... everyone just goes to sleep and on a long enough time line, dies.

This could give you enough time to take a trash bag person to person and collect cell phones if you were so inclined.

[Aktungbby]

signal from the plane's transponder.
That device is situated between the pilots and can be disabled with a twist of the wrist. For a pilot to turn it off would seem reckless because the information it transmits gives the plane vital protection, Weiss said.
And the apparent lack of visibility on radar? "Airline pilots are not trained for radar avoidance," said aviation expert Keith Wolzinger, a former 777 pilot. They like to stay on the radar, because -- again -- it protects their plane. My worst case scenario is that Zaharie Ahmed Shah, the pilot or Fariq Ab Hamid, the first officer "put his faith in God" as with Egypt Air's first officer a few years back and commandeered his own aircraft during the toilet break of the other officer in a copycat takeover, flown for hours, out over the Indian Ocean then ditched with all aboard. I'm not seeing how the phones would be collected in a depressure situation by any of the cockpit crew. I know the cockpit has it's own separate oxygen supply from the cabin overhead deploy masks. Further investigation of the cockpit crew would be useful perhaps...:hmmm: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/mar/16/duncancampbell (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/mar/16/duncancampbell)

[Flamebatter90]

There wasn't really that much wreckage from the Titanic to begin with though. Most of the stuff would be trapped inside her hull as she went down with it being impossible for it to float out of it.

Titanic had a ton of chairs, tables, cushions etc. "on top", life belts and so on.

It all scattered around quickly.

[Jimbuna]

Snake in the grass comes to mind.

Snakes on a plane :hmmm:

Well just about every other conceivable theory has been aired.

[Admiral Halsey]

Titanic had a ton of chairs, tables, cushions etc. "on top", life belts and so on.

It all scattered around quickly.

It also became waterlogged very quickly and sank. Plus the vast majority of the stuff was in her hull.

[krashkart]

Well just about every other conceivable theory has been aired.

Nobody has yet mentioned the possibility of the chemtrail generators exploding. That has been known to happen--more frequently than you might imagine--but the government tends to be very concerned about covering that stuff up. Everybody is *paid well to keep quiet, and we never hear even the slightest suspicious hint that anything tragic happened. :03:

* Do you really think we lost all those billions of dollars to contractors in OIF/OEF? Nope. Seriously. You have no idea just how tremendous the black budget is these days. :cool:

[Flamebatter90]

It also became waterlogged very quickly and sank. Plus the vast majority of the stuff was in her hull.

It took about 2hrs for the ship to sink. And yes, I am talking about the stuff that would float: life preservers, tables, chairs, bodies etc.

At least one was seen by the Captain of Carpathia if I remember correctly.

[Dread Knot]

Nobody has yet mentioned the possibility of the chemtrail generators exploding. That has been known to happen--more frequently than you might imagine--but the government tends to be very concerned about covering that stuff up. Everybody is *paid well to keep quiet, and we never hear even the slightest suspicious hint that anything tragic happened. :03:



A few bat-crazies today are actually suggesting that it's a huge publicity stunt for an upcoming remake of LOST. Somehow I find that crazier than alien time slips.

At least no one's mentioned Cthulhu yet. Aircraft meet Lovecraft.

[krashkart]

A few bat-crazies today are actually suggesting that it's a huge publicity stunt for an upcoming remake of LOST. Somehow I find that crazier than alien time slips.

At least no one's mentioned Cthulhu yet. Aircraft meet Lovecraft.


You know, I'm not at all surprised by that. :)

[STEED]

Snakes on a plane :hmmm:

Well just about every other conceivable theory has been aired.

Alien abduction I heard today....Moving on back in the real world.

[Madox58]

Alien abduction I heard today....Moving on back in the real world.
HEY!! Back off Mate! I own the Alien Influence theories!
:stare:

"Aliens placed a tractor beam on the Aircraft"

:haha:

[mapuc]

I believe this 20 year old student have the solution to this vanishing airliner.

Have been in Danish and Swedish newspaper.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

No link.

[Madox58]

I believe this 20 year old student have the solution to this vanishing airliner.

Have been in Danish and Swedish newspaper.

Markus

No Soup for you!

[Admiral Halsey]

I believe this 20 year old student have the solution to this vanishing airliner.

Have been in Danish and Swedish newspaper.

Markus

You got a link for that theory mate?

[mapuc]

No link.


Here's the story.

In his theory, some part of the airliner, fell of, This made the air inside of the plane, vanished(decompression I think it is called) due to this, the passenger and the crew passed out, but the autopilot kept the plane flying.

Markus

[Jimbuna]

I'm afraid that is one of many and one of the original theories but a possibility nonetheless.

[Oberon]

Here's the story.

In his theory, some part of the airliner, fell of, This made the air inside of the plane, vanished(decompression I think it is called) due to this, the passenger and the crew passed out, but the autopilot kept the plane flying.

Markus

Possible, but if that had happened then the tracking equipment on the aircraft (with its multiple redunancies) would surely have kept transmitting? There can't just be one single aerial on a 777 to transmit all the data required for tracking it?
If it did keep flying then surely it would have been picked up by Vietnamese radar?

Admittedly there are potential answers to all these questions too (it could have been damaged enough to kill the comms equipment but not the autopilot, and without the transponder broadcasting the Vietnamese ATC could have dismissed it as anaprop.) The problem is the sheer lack of data, to use a quote from a favourite film of mine "Data, data, data! I cannot make bricks without clay!"

[Jimbuna]

The problem is the sheer lack of data, to use a quote from a favourite film of mine "Data, data, data! I cannot make bricks without clay!"

http://www2.raritanval.edu/departments/busadmin/full-time/Defilippis/tops/image/home/AnimSherlock_Ag00595.gif

[Madox58]

One of the most volatile areas in the world and a 777 just goes "POOF".
:haha:

I'm not buying all the 'We don't know, no radar, donuts were on sale, not my job' hand fed crap designed to distract us.

Somebody knows where it went and when it went there.

[swamprat69er]

One of the most volatile areas in the world and a 777 just goes "POOF".
:haha:

I'm not buying all the 'We don't know, no radar, donuts were on sale, not my job' hand fed crap designed to distract us.

Somebody knows where it went and when it went there.
and probably why.

[Madox58]

I find a suspicious absent of Neal.
:hmmm:
Off for some 'training' that resulted in living in a metal box?
:o

Now I'm not a brainiac but I'm thinking we need to check this lead!
Wait! NSA already did that.
:haha:

[mapuc]

To those who asked for at Link. I found it

http://mh370lost.tumblr.com/post/79214607814/what-happened-to-mh370

Markus

[Armistead]

Seems clear foul play was involved. Seems some are now thinking the plane landed somewhere, but find it more likely it crashed in the Indian ocean..

[GoldenRivet]

Well... Saw this (http://vietnam.craigslist.org/for/4372477162.html)on facebook. had to share :88)

[Father Goose]

One of the most volatile areas in the world and a 777 just goes "POOF".
:haha:

I'm not buying all the 'We don't know, no radar, donuts were on sale, not my job' hand fed crap designed to distract us.

Somebody knows where it went and when it went there.

I couldn't agree more!

[CCIP]

Well... Saw this (http://vietnam.craigslist.org/for/4372477162.html)on facebook. had to share :88)

Where did they get a -300? :hmm2:

[CCIP]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26591056

The communications systems of missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 were deliberately disabled, Malaysia's Prime Minister Najib Razak has said.

[...]

Mr Razak told a news conference that new satellite evidence shows "with a high degree of certainty" that the aircraft's communications systems were disabled and then it changed course, flying west back over Malaysia.

"These movements are consistent with the deliberate action of someone on the plane," he said.

Something that was probably always was suspect, but there you have it folks :hmmm:

The plot definitely thickens now... Looks like that was no accident after all.

[Oberon]

I don't know about thicken, I think it's positively solidified!

The only places North-west of Malaysia are Burma, Bangladesh and India, and it certainly wouldn't have gone to India, Bangladesh is fairly unlikely, Burma is a possibility though...

The max range of a 777-200ER is about 9,000 miles, that's assuming full tanks which this probably would not have had, so let's work that down to the distance it would take to get to Beijing which is about 3,000 miles, allowing for loitoring let's give it 3,500 miles of fuel, about a third of a tank.
That puts it within reach of a lot of potential customers, Pakistan, Iran, Western China, although it's just out of range of Somalia which is about 3,600 miles.

This is a very worrying development. :hmmm:

[Oberon]

There are 411 (well...410) B777-200ERs in service in the world today, below is a screenshot of Flightradar24 with only the B777-200ERs shown.

http://i.imgur.com/5OVMej7.jpg

There are three main reasons why it would be hijacked, all of them bad.
1) It was hijacked and deliberately crashed as a terrorist act against China...however the problem with that is that it would have been just as easy to do this either on Chinese soil, or over the South China Sea, rather than turning back and flying off to the North-west.
2) It was hijacked for something in the cargo.
3) It was hijacked for use in a major terrorist plot in a western city.

Given that no ransoms have been issued for the passengers and crew, I think it's safe to say that they have been...disposed of, in some way or another.

The worst case scenario I can think of in my mind right now is that they seek to slip this 777 into a commercial route, posing as another aircraft, and then either crash it somewhere populated...or detonate it over somewhere populated...possibly with a payload of some sort, chemical, biological or nuclear.

I pray to any and all deities that I am wrong.

[Jimbuna]

If you are correct, this has the potential to be the biggest and most effective 'dirty' bomb yet.

[Dread Knot]

There are three main reasons why it would be hijacked, all of them bad.
1) It was hijacked and deliberately crashed as a terrorist act against China...however the problem with that is that it would have been just as easy to do this either on Chinese soil, or over the South China Sea, rather than turning back and flying off to the North-west.
2) It was hijacked for something in the cargo.
3) It was hijacked for use in a major terrorist plot in a western city.

Given that no ransoms have been issued for the passengers and crew, I think it's safe to say that they have been...disposed of, in some way or another.

The worst case scenario I can think of in my mind right now is that they seek to slip this 777 into a commercial route, posing as another aircraft, and then either crash it somewhere populated...or detonate it over somewhere populated...possibly with a payload of some sort, chemical, biological or nuclear.

I pray to any and all deities that I am wrong.

It seems to me that if you were going to use the plane for some nefarious purpose, you may as well do it while you're still airborne, and the Malaysian officials are stumbling and bumbling about, and no-one's yet expecting a stray plane thousands of miles from where it was last seen. Why would you then land it? Then only explanation would be to refuel (which would then require more people in on it...) or to add something else to the plane (like explosives?) But again, why wait a week? There was an unexpected window of opportunity in the confusion of the first days after the disappearance to carry out an attack. It's fading now, although I worry about cases of mistaken identity. Woe on any civilian plane with an innocent transponder failure now.

So this doesn't really seem to make sense - unless, there was a hijacking with an intended target or an intended passenger ransom but an unforseen event causing a crash into the ocean or parts unknown. That's what I'd put money on at the moment - though that may be hopelessly out of date by tomorrow.

[Armistead]

Probably a planned terrorist attack against China, but that plane is crashed, not landed somewhere. I think the passengers may have fought back..

[swamprat69er]

This just in:
http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/malaysia-airlines-flight-pm-says-plane-s-disappearance-deliberate-1.1730508

[Neptunus Rex]

The plane being taken was always my first thought, but could not say why, just gut feeling.

There are two locations that come to mind, Iran and Somalia. Both have runways long enough to handle a 777 within range for the missing aircraft.

In Iran's case, it's a military airfield that also has hangers large enough to conceal the craft from surveillance.

For Somalia, there is a 11K ft runway in Mogadishu. My gut says Somalia, ship hijackings have been made more difficult and the "War Lords" may have decided to expand their market.

[CCIP]

Probably a planned terrorist attack against China, but that plane is crashed, not landed somewhere. I think the passengers may have fought back..

That's what I'm thinking. Well, I don't even know if they fought back, but somehow I'm just skeptical that it actually landed somewhere intact. And as I said before, somehow I just don't think that whoever did this was after just stealing an aircraft, or something aboard.

That said, the important conclusion from this is that whoever did this seems to have known what they were doing.

For Somalia, there is a 11K ft runway in Mogadishu. My gut says Somalia, ship hijackings have been made more difficult and the "War Lords" may have decided to expand their market.

Mogadishu isn't exactly a wild wasteland of some sort. That airport (along with the rest of the town) is under government control and guarded by Kenyan soldiers, and has regular airline service across Africa. Turkish Airlines flies there as well. Not exactly somewhere that one could just hide a 777. There also weren't any Somalis aboard, and I've never heard of a Somali pirate hijacking conducted entirely by foreigners. Besides, it's probably worth pointing out that if that were the case, a classic method of air piracy would work. They wouldn't need to hide their position or stay silent - not like someone would shoot them out of the sky, especially over ocean - and they'd make demands pretty quickly.

[Jimbuna]

If she did fly north-west over land one or more countries must have radar data on her.

BBC Update 18:38 GMT

According to a military radar, the aircraft then turned and flew back over Malaysia before heading in a north-west direction.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26591056

[Madox58]

I think the focus should be shifted to famous magicians.
Heck! They make all kinds of stuff vanish!
:haha:
'Now You See Me' ring any bells?

[Dread Knot]

Has the makings of a James Bond novel written by Rod Serling.

[mapuc]

Don't know if this has been mention in this thread

Read an article where an expert are convinced the plane have exploded. He said, it was weird that no one had send message or something, even before the plane hit the towers passengers had time to send messages to their love one, but here absolutely nothing.

Hmm, I'm absolutely no expert on aviation, however, if the plane did explode, shouldn't these signal have stopped or?

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Mobile phone signals were detected hours after the plane disappeared from radar so if it did explode it was quite a while after.

[Madox58]

Make a joke? Your an Asshat.
Post speculactions based on your lean towards anything else? Your OK.
I can follow the news posts (Which seems Disney is handleing)

Oh crap! that was another joke wasn't it?
:haha:

[Oberon]

Don't know if this has been mention in this thread

Read an article where an expert are convinced the plane have exploded. He said, it was weird that no one had send message or something, even before the plane hit the towers passengers had time to send messages to their love one, but here absolutely nothing.

Hmm, I'm absolutely no expert on aviation, however, if the plane did explode, shouldn't these signal have stopped or?

Markus

Depends where it exploded and where the military radars that tracked this aircraft heading out towards the Indian ocean lost contact with it. If it did explode at altitude though there would likely have been wreckage floating in the water, and it's likely that a vessel in the area would have spotted something by now.
If the aircraft exploded then all signals would stop, although the black box would emit its high-frequency sonar ping for however long the batteries permit it to, the snag is finding that needle in an ocean of haystack.

[CCIP]

The duration for which signals were transmitting also suggests that, if anything, it would've crashed after running out of fuel.

Here's one possible hypothesis: assuming the aircraft went deep into the Indian Ocean, it could be that someone hijacked it, cut communications and gave the pilots reason to suspect that the plane would be crashed into a populated area. The crew could've then found a way to distract the hijackers and pretend to fly it towards a target while heading away from land to prevent this from actually happening and to at least prevent casualties on the ground. Since it was night, it might've worked for a while and the foil wouldn't be discovered until too late.
Though that also seems a bit out there... But that could explain a south Indian Ocean scenario, if the plane headed there and disappeared.

Of the two proposed tracks, though, my money is on the one heading in the direction of Kazakhstan. And if it's terrorism (and I still suspect it is), my bet is currently on the Uighur situation with China.

As for the previous piracy discussion, one quick side note - you don't need to ascribe it to Somali pirates at all, because there's piracy closer to home. Malacca Strait is one of the world's piracy hot spots, nearly as bad as the Somali coast. So if it was a pirate hijacking, give their local talent some credit - they're as "good" at it as the Somalis (and arguably the piracy in that region is far more organized and sophisticated, just less random and violent than in Somalia so it doesn't get as much attention).

[RickC Sniper]

Why did they wait several days before releasing the information that the plane was still pinging satellites hours after it was reported missing?


I think a pilot took over the plane and just took it to deeper water b4 killing himself and all others with him.

The whole idea of it landing somewhere covertly just seems too difficult to ever pull off.

[RickC Sniper]

As for the previous piracy discussion, one quick side note - you don't need to ascribe it to Somali pirates at all, because there's piracy closer to home. Malacca Strait is one of the world's piracy hot spots, nearly as bad as the Somali coast. So if it was a pirate hijacking, give their local talent some credit - they're as "good" at it as the Somalis (and arguably the piracy in that region is far more organized and sophisticated, just less random and violent than in Somalia so it doesn't get as much attention).

Wouldn't pirates be demanding ransom by now?

[CCIP]

Wouldn't pirates be demanding ransom by now?

Exactly! That's why I sort of brushed away that cause earlier, just saying that if it were piracy, no need to look at Somalia.

Granted, it could still be anything. But even if it was piracy, something went horribly wrong.

[Skybird]

Malaysian police now officially base their examinations on the suspicion of hijacking, sabotage, and terrorism, not accidents.

German media point at American media speculating that the plane may have been intended for a terror attack against Diego Garcia.

The US navy refused to comment on speculations by German tabloid "Bild" (The German pendant to the Sun or Daily Mail) that navy fighters may have intentionally been ordered to shoot down the plane in order to prevent such an attack on Diego Garcia.

[Catfish]

^ I am a bit reluctant towards this theory, you know "conspiracy theories" work both ways - and we know that suspicious actions if being detected and being talked about, have asap be called "conspiracy theories", to discredit them (among others by the NSA).
Calling others tinfoil hats is sure to caus a laugh, and divert from the real thing.

But let us think if this were true - "they" (whoever) captured a jet with passengers, and landed the plane somewhere, to use it for a terroristic act later. Regardless what they plan, they could use the passengers as hostages, so any military plane would be reluctant to shoot it down, even if they knew the new pilots would be up to something bad..

Or think of this: The jet along with original pilots and passengers is being set free, and closing in to xyz airport - would the military let it land, or shoot it down ? I mean even if no terroristic act or anything is planned, the paranoia against terrorism is so big, it could happen ..


I still think theremust be another reason, and cause :06:

[Jimbuna]

Or think of this: The jet along with original pilots and passengers is being set free, and closing in to xyz airport - would the military let it land, or shoot it down ? I mean even if no terroristic act or anything is planned, the paranoia against terrorism is so big, it could happen ..



An extremely valid question/point.

[GoldenRivet]

Wouldn't pirates be demanding ransom by now?

Not if the terror organization providing the passengers told them to wait until XX date - that way it could be kept secret that they have the plane until its too late.

[mapuc]

I guess you haven't forgot how Afghanistan helped Osama, maybe a country is doing the same here.

Just a thought

Markus

[krashkart]

Apparently Russia believes MH370 was captured by the US Navy and flown to a secret base on Diego Garcia atoll. Sounds like a load of bull (the article I mean) to me. :hmmm:

http://www.pisau.net/russia-puzzled-over-malaysia-airlines-mh370-capture-by-us-navy-prayformh370/


EDIT: Gah! I've been duped (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread304918/pg1). I'll leave the article linked anyway for your entertainment.

[Jimbuna]

LOL :)

[bertieck476]

^

Or think of this: The jet along with original pilots and passengers is being set free, and closing in to xyz airport - would the military let it land, or shoot it down ? I mean even if no terroristic act or anything is planned, the paranoia against terrorism is so big, it could happen ..


I still think theremust be another reason, and cause :06:

If this scenario arose Im sure the aircraft would be escorted to a safe place of landing via a safe corridor with explicit instructions not to deviate.

[Admiral Halsey]

I TOLD YOU GUYS THE PLANE WAS STOLEN/HIJACKED!!!!

[TarJak]

Stay where you are. The black helicopters will be arriving soon to pick you up as you know more about the situation than anyone else.

[Admiral Halsey]

Stay where you are. The black helicopters will be arriving soon to pick you up as you know more about the situation than anyone else.

Ha Ha very funny. I was one of the first if not THE first person on here to state they believed the plane didn't crash at least right off the bat and I just wanted to gloat a little.

[CCIP]

I don't think we dismissed the idea of a hijacking :O:
It's just the part about it being stolen and hidden somewhere that I still don't quite buy :hmm2:

[Admiral Halsey]

I don't think we dismissed the idea of a hijacking :O:
It's just the part about it being stolen and hidden somewhere that I still don't quite buy :hmm2:

Well one of the potential paths takes it up north to Kazakhstan so it's possible. I don't buy the southern route for the plane since taking that route means it was either heading for Australia for some reason or who ever was at the controls aimed on crashing the thing but just wanted it to be harder for them to find it. I'm betting the thing landed in a Desert there and that's why we can't find it.

[TarJak]

Ha Ha very funny. I was one of the first if not THE first person on here to state they believed the plane didn't crash at least right off the bat and I just wanted to gloat a little.Well played. So what? Until the Malaysian PM came clean with some of what they knew, everyone, including yourself were in the dark about what happened. Unless you're saying that you do know more about it than you're owning up to. :hmmm:

[TarJak]

'Good night' issued from missing flight MH370 after tracking switched off http://ab.co/1cOFoUW

[BossMark]

I read police have searched the house of the Malaysian Airlines captain in their hunt for the missing plane...

I'm no expert, but I doubt it's there.

[MH]

Where is the friggin plane???? :doh:
:timeout::ping:

[THE_MASK]

Where is the friggin plane???? :doh:
:timeout::ping:Look out your window :yep:

[Jimbuna]

Where is the friggin plane???? :doh:
:timeout::ping:

Hidden amongst my diecast collection.