Malaysia airlines B777 missing

[Wolferz]

Time to install Low-jack systems on the fleet?:D

I can't believe the NSA didn't spot this coming. :roll:

[Ducimus]

http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww147/kellycj/GsIsland_zps73243b43.jpg

[Rhodes]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LmcfbBUx7c0/UYhRzYinRZI/AAAAAAAADIw/2er1MDI8mz0/s1600/$T2eC16FHJHwE9n8igtmYBQPGiOc3C!~~60_35.JPG (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LmcfbBUx7c0/UYhRzYinRZI/AAAAAAAADIw/2er1MDI8mz0/s1600/$T2eC16FHJHwE9n8igtmYBQPGiOc3C!~~60_35.JPG)

[Herr-Berbunch]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LmcfbBUx7c0/UYhRzYinRZI/AAAAAAAADIw/2er1MDI8mz0/s1600/$T2eC16FHJHwE9n8igtmYBQPGiOc3C!~~60_35.JPG (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-LmcfbBUx7c0/UYhRzYinRZI/AAAAAAAADIw/2er1MDI8mz0/s1600/$T2eC16FHJHwE9n8igtmYBQPGiOc3C!~~60_35.JPG)

Ah, McBee, I've been expecting you . . . !

[BossMark]

Rescuers have found 2 women survivors from the Malaysian missing plane.

Flo Ting and So King Wet are said to be doing fine.

[Aktungbby]

My worst case scenario is that Zaharie Ahmed Shah, the pilot or Fariq Ab Hamid, the first officer "put his faith in God" as with Egypt Air's first officer a few years back and commandeered his own aircraft during the toilet break of the other officer in a copycat takeover, flown for hours, out over the Indian Ocean then ditched with all aboard. I'm not seeing how the phones would be collected in a depressure situation by any of the cockpit crew. I know the cockpit has it's own separate oxygen supply from the cabin overhead deploy masks. Further investigation of the cockpit crew would be useful perhaps...:hmmm: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/mar/16/duncancampbell (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/mar/16/duncancampbell)

Your humor is outstanding in a forum of international exposure fellas! :nope: Just a grim reinforce of my original post in today's WSJ:
As police investigate the two pilots of a Malaysian passenger jet that disappeared more than a week ago, a possibility they must consider — however remote and improbable — is that one of them committed suicide — and mass murder in the process.
While such incidents have happened before, the topic remains almost taboo, with investigators and officials reluctant to conclude that a pilot purposely crashed a plane in order to commit suicide even when the evidence appears compelling.
A dozen years ago, U.S. investigators filed a final report into the 1999 crash of EgyptAir Flight 990, which plunged into the Atlantic Ocean near the Massachusetts island of Nantucket, killing all 217 aboard. They concluded that when co-pilot Gameel El-Batouty found himself alone on the flight deck, he switched off the auto-pilot, pointed the plane downward, and calmly repeated the phrase "I rely on God" over and over, 11 times in total.
Yet while the National Transportation Safety Board concluded that the co-pilot's actions caused the crash, they didn't use the word "suicide" in the main findings of their 160-page report, instead saying the reason for his actions "was not determined." Egyptian officials, meanwhile, rejected the notion of suicide altogether, insisting instead there was some mechanical reason for the crash.
There was also disagreement over the cause of the crash of SilkAir Flight 185, which plunged into a river in 1997 during a flight from Jakarta, Indonesia, to Singapore, killing all 104 passengers and crew. A U.S. investigation found that the Boeing 737 had been deliberately crashed, but an Indonesian investigation was inconclusive.
Mozambique officials have been investigating a crash that killed 33 people in November. They say preliminary investigations indicate that the pilot of the Mozambican Airline plane bound for Angola intentionally brought it down, and they're continuing to look into his possible motives.
A 2014 study by the Federal Aviation Administration indicates that in the U.S. at least, flying remains a remarkably safe mode of transport and pilot suicide is a rare occurrence.
The study found that during the 10 years ending in 2012, just eight of 2,758 fatal aviation accidents in the U.S. were caused by pilot suicide, a rate of 0.3 percent. The report found that all eight suicides were men, with four of them testing positive for alcohol and two for antidepressants.
The cases ranged from a pilot celebrating his 21st birthday who realized a woman didn't want a relationship with him, to a 69-year-old pilot with a history of drinking and threatening suicide by plane. Seven of the cases involved the death of only the pilot; in the eighth case, a passenger also died.
"Aircraft-assisted suicides are tragic, intentional events that are hard to predict and difficult to prevent," the FAA's report found, adding that such suicides "are most likely under-reported and under-recognized."
In at least one case, a major international airline allowed a pilot who had expressed suicidal thoughts to continue flying. He flew nearly three more years, without incident, before he resigned in 1982 with severe obsessive-compulsive disorder, anxiety and depression.

[Wolferz]

That really encourages me to fly bby.:up::yep:

[GoldenRivet]

Pilot suicide by airplane eh?

Takes a special sort to plunge a plane load of people down with you... why not rent a cessna, or better yet just put a pistol to your head in the privacy of your own home? there are a lot of ways to off yourself without taking a couple of hundred innocent folks with you.

Sickening the thought of it. As a Professional in Aviation... Passenger safety is number 1, and i think that so few pilots would consider suicide by plane (one that is carrying passengers that is) that it is is such a low statistical anomaly that it wouldn't even rate.

I have heard of suicide by plane, I narrowly missed witnessing a guy plunge a small airplane straight down into the dirt as it was said to be "shedding parts" all the way down due to the forces at work against the plane far exceeding its design limits. The guy killed himself on purpose. (it was revealed that just an hour or so before his lover left him or some such motive)

I cannot stand before anyone and say it doesnt happen... but it happens with about the same frequency as Doctors intentionally murdering their patients.

On the whole, pilots are an intensely positive, can-do, achieve and overcome sort of people, realistic thoughts of suicide just normally is not entering into their thinking. Though there have been exceptions to every rule known to man.

I have to ask this though... if it was pilot suicide, why fly the damned thing a bazillion miles off course into some far off remote stretch of sea?

Most men contemplate suicide due to the actions of a woman... im not saying this would be the motive, but in the event that it is, most men who commit suicide do so to cause lasting trauma to a lover "See what i did because of you" sort of mentality... the thing in that case would have been to simply disconnect the autopilot at the proper moment, broadcast "This is for you Julia you rotten beeyatch!" and take her on down into the final descent.

turn the transponder off? no, why do that?

Disable the ACARS? if it was suicide, why? why do that?

this was done in a manner so as to conceal the act... commonly in suicide you want to make a show of it so someone or some group will know why you did it.

We have none of those indicators, so i think pilot suicide is not likely.

An expert on the news stated that the erratic flight path shortly after the aircraft was lost from radar could be a sign of struggle in the cockpit.

I want to throw out an assumption here that perhaps has not been considered.

Those two pilots were attacked, and during the struggle one of them attempted to turn back, the pilots died defending the flight deck and protecting their passengers, and whoever ultimately took over the plane had just enough knowledge to keep it aloft. they became lost and disoriented while trying to find their way to somewhere, such as a target, they exhausted the fuel and crashed into the sea way off course.

[Dread Knot]

Those two pilots were attacked, and during the struggle one of them attempted to turn back, the pilots died defending the flight deck and protecting their passengers, and whoever ultimately took over the plane had just enough knowledge to keep it aloft. they became lost and disoriented while trying to find their way to somewhere, such as a target, they exhausted the fuel and crashed into the sea way off course.

Of course, that brings up the question of where were the passengers during this struggle. No one got off a phone call during this long meander to nowhere? It seems that whoever tried to take over the plane would have found themselves vastly outnumbered.

[GoldenRivet]

Of course, that brings up the question of where were the passengers during this struggle. No one got off a phone call during this long meander to nowhere? It seems that whoever tried to take over the plane would have found themselves vastly outnumbered.

It is quite a perplexing problem... with so many perks and amenities aboard the 777 aircraft like in flight sat phones and Wi-Fi... it seems like at least one passenger would have been able to place a call or send out an e mail or posted something to the internet - Something

[Mr Quatro]

turn the transponder off? no, why do that?

Disable the ACARS? if it was suicide, why? why do that?

this was done in a manner so as to conceal the act... commonly in suicide you want to make a show of it so someone or some group will know why you did it.

We have none of those indicators, so i think pilot suicide is not likely.

An expert on the news stated that the erratic flight path shortly after the aircraft was lost from radar could be a sign of struggle in the cockpit.

I want to throw out an assumption here that perhaps has not been considered.

Those two pilots were attacked, and during the struggle one of them attempted to turn back, the pilots died defending the flight deck and protecting their passengers, and whoever ultimately took over the plane had just enough knowledge to keep it aloft. they became lost and disoriented while trying to find their way to somewhere, such as a target, they exhausted the fuel and crashed into the sea way off course.

This scenario has not been on CNN, yet!

I have also wondered about the reports of the plane flying at an altitude of 45,000 feet and then plunging to 23,000 feet with many experts saying that this can not happen without the wings falling off.

If this did happen and their radar reports that say it did or was it the ACARS system pings that reported it?

On my FSX autopilot all you have to do is turn one knob to get the plane to go to another course, you don't have to be an expert. Then the plane flew straight back towards Malaysia air space like it was trying to return?

If it wasn't the pilot or co-pilot causing the problem then a mayday signal could've been sent out, leaves mechanical failure out.

They also said that the military didn't figure out that the plane doubled back to Malaysia air space for days, in other words they didn't see it happen in real time only on radar recorded reports later.

Very strange indeed ... also wonder why no one could get off a cell phone call unless they were all dead of course from depressurization of the passenger cabin.

One things for sure we are not getting all of the right information at the right time. This whole investigation has been screwy with the pilots just now being considered suspects.

The time points for turning off ACARS keeps changing to before the co-pilot said his farewell "Good night" to after he reported in.

Plus the ping every hour throws me way off to where the plane really wound up ... six hours of flying in the air from the last reported positioning winding up in the ocean or after $300 million dollar aircraft is now on the ground?

The fact that the pilot was friends with the political opposition leader that was jailed the same day has me concerned also, plus the co-pilot was 29 and one of the passengers was a civil aeronautical engineer that was 29.

Do you think we will ever know? They say the flight data recorder rewrites it self every two hours if it wasn't turned off at the switch board that is and that is outside the pilots cabin and under a floor board visible to passengers in the main cabin (if they were still alive that is).

Notice no one is saying the "M" word yet ... but they are saying prayers seven times a day. :yep:

[NeonSamurai]

On the whole, pilots are an intensely positive, can-do, achieve and overcome sort of people, realistic thoughts of suicide just normally is not entering into their thinking. Though there have been exceptions to every rule known to man.

I have to ask this though... if it was pilot suicide, why fly the damned thing a bazillion miles off course into some far off remote stretch of sea?

Most men contemplate suicide due to the actions of a woman... im not saying this would be the motive, but in the event that it is, most men who commit suicide do so to cause lasting trauma to a lover "See what i did because of you" sort of mentality... the thing in that case would have been to simply disconnect the autopilot at the proper moment, broadcast "This is for you Julia you rotten beeyatch!" and take her on down into the final descent.

turn the transponder off? no, why do that?

Disable the ACARS? if it was suicide, why? why do that?

this was done in a manner so as to conceal the act... commonly in suicide you want to make a show of it so someone or some group will know why you did it.

We have none of those indicators, so i think pilot suicide is not likely.

I would be more cautious in talking about a topic (suicide) that I do not think you know a whole lot about.

Trying to mask a suicide attempt is not all that uncommon. A common reason is so that the person's family does not think it was suicide, that it was just an accident. There also may be religious reasoning behind what they do, such as not shaming their family further. It is also not at all uncommon for the person attempting suicide not to consider the potential harm to others, they are often totally stuck within themselves. Also of course there is the possibility of the person wanting to take revenge on everyone else for perceived harm to the individual by other groups or society.

Also your other statement about men and suicide is equally erroneous (though relationships can be a factor in a suicide, it is more often just a last straw). It is considerably harder to detect suicidal ideation than you think. Most people tend to be completely oblivious to the warning signs, and even for us professionals, assessing a person's risk for suicide is a challenge. The ones that are most likely to succeed are also the ones that do not give out any warning signs, as they do not want to be rescued or stopped. I cannot count the number of parents I have met that had absolutely no idea their son or daughter was at risk, or even depressed.

[GoldenRivet]

I would be more cautious in talking about a topic (suicide) that I do not think you know a whole lot about.

Trying to mask a suicide attempt is not all that uncommon. A common reason is so that the person's family does not think it was suicide, that it was just an accident. There also may be religious reasoning behind what they do, such as not shaming their family further. It is also not at all uncommon for the person attempting suicide not to consider the potential harm to others, they are often totally stuck within themselves. Also of course there is the possibility of the person wanting to take revenge on everyone else for perceived harm to the individual by other groups or society.

Also your other statement about men and suicide is equally erroneous (though relationships can be a factor in a suicide, it is more often just a last straw). It is considerably harder to detect suicidal ideation than you think. Most people tend to be completely oblivious to the warning signs, and even for us professionals, assessing a person's risk for suicide is a challenge. The ones that are most likely to succeed are also the ones that do not give out any warning signs, as they do not want to be rescued or stopped. I cannot count the number of parents I have met that had absolutely no idea their son or daughter was at risk, or even depressed.

Those are excellent points, and i defer to your expertise if you are in the field.

But the pilot driving the plane 1,500 miles into the open sea and then killing himself and all his passengers is just completely alien in concept

I still say if the mission was suicide, why all the theatrics? just pull the trigger so to speak.

[Mr Quatro]

Fox news is now confirming what GR thought: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/17/pilots-become-focus-malaysia-airlines-investigation/


Hank Whitmore, a former Boeing 777 pilot, also told “Fox & Friends” (http://video.foxnews.com/v/3352205191001/) that it looked like there was a struggle in the cockpit of the missing plane.
“The way it climbed up to up 45,000 feet and then went down radically -- that doesn’t sound like an airplane problem.”


But I sure didn't know Muslims were homosexuals did you?

Seems the pilot Zaharie Ahmad Shah was a close friend of Anwar Ibrahim Malaysian opposition leader, who just happened to be arrested on the same day flight 370 departed. His friend was arrested for being a homosexual, plus the pilots family had already left him, he was a single male. :hmmm:.


Britain’s Daily Mirror reported (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/missing-malaysian-airlines-flight-mh370-3248001)http://global.fncstatic.com/static/v/all/img/external-link.png that Shah was a supporter of Anwar Ibrahim, a Malaysian opposition leader who was jailed for homosexuality hours before the flight disappeared.


Probably nothing to it, uh? Good ole Fox News :woot:

[RickC Sniper]

Pilot suicide by airplane eh?

Takes a special sort to plunge a plane load of people down with you... why not rent a cessna, or better yet just put a pistol to your head in the privacy of your own home? there are a lot of ways to off yourself without taking a couple of hundred innocent folks with you.



Open your eyes and look at what is going on in our society these days.

Gunmen go into schools and kill and kill and kill when their ultimate purpose is death by cop or they eat their own gun after their killing spree.

This proposal about a pilot is so different?

[Madox58]

Your humor is outstanding in a forum of international exposure fellas! :nope:

I find the crazy theories, postulations, links to gossip, etc. far more hurtful then off color(?) jokes.
Then again. I have a very hard outlook on life.
If there's an S.O.B. out there that will do something so outstandingly crazy that we are baffled?
I'm sure he'll surface at some point in time. :nope:

[GoldenRivet]

Open your eyes and look at what is going on in our society these days.

Gunmen go into schools and kill and kill and kill when their ultimate purpose is death by cop or they eat their own gun after their killing spree.

This proposal about a pilot is so different?

as a professional pilot, who has worked in the airline business, corporate aviation and private aviation i have to say the proposal about a pilot IS different in the sense that it is extraordinarily rare.

Its not different in the sense that they are human beings.

Sometimes a nut gets through - most times they dont.

Im not excluding the possibility that one of the pilots just up and decided screw it me, you and everyone aboard is dieing today. But knowing pilots in general in the way that i do... such a feeling would be all but completely unheard of.

Perhaps this guy was a closet homosexual with the captain, and not wanting to be found out or arrested or shamed he decided to crash it.

but that still doesnt explain the circumstances behind driving it 2 or 3 thousand miles before ditching it in the sea.

explaining the rationale behind the actions of a nut job is difficult... but it still doesnt make sense to fly it 4 or 5 hours in the wrong direction (7 hours depending on who you ask) before putting it in the water.

[Madox58]

Unless it takes them that long to actually go through with it.
Had a good friend put 3 rounds in his ceiling before he wasted himself.

[Mr Quatro]

Perhaps this guy was a closet homosexual with the captain, and not wanting to be found out or arrested or shamed he decided to crash it.

but that still doesnt explain the circumstances behind driving it 2 or 3 thousand miles before ditching it in the sea.

explaining the rationale behind the actions of a nut job is difficult... but it still doesnt make sense to fly it 4 or 5 hours in the wrong direction (7 hours depending on who you ask) before putting it in the water.

What if the plane didn't know it had a pilot? Would that explain the plane flying for hours and hours, probably in a straight line of sight path, straight over the ocean till it is never heard of again?

They say the black box signal can only be picked up by a submarine or an airplane directly overhead of it.

[RickC Sniper]

@GR sorry if my comment came of as harsh or aimed at you.

Right now, I fear the reality may be that no one ever finds out what happened to this plane & it's people.

For the families who had loved ones aboard I hope that isn't true. I'd want to know.

[Aktungbby]

Pilot suicide by airplane eh?
turn the transponder off? no, why do that?
We have none of those indicators, so i think pilot suicide is not likely.
Those two pilots were attacked, and during the struggle one of them attempted to turn back, the pilots died defending the flight deck and protecting their passengers, and whoever ultimately took over the plane had just enough knowledge to keep it aloft. they became lost and disoriented while trying to find their way to somewhere, such as a target, they exhausted the fuel and crashed into the sea way off course.

They concluded that when co-pilot Gameel El-Batouty found himself alone on the flight deck, he switched off the auto-pilot, pointed the plane downward, and calmly repeated the phrase "I rely on God" over and over, 11 times in total. Well, one did turn off the transponder and plunge his aircraft into the sea-so nothing new here. I like your counter scenario as to a defense of the cockpit except that the transponder was turned off ahead of the Co-pilot's saying "good night"... so not likely. You and I are pilot experienced-logic oriented persons; assuming the other bugger is also an intelligent 'creature of logic' is a major error of our usual assumptions...which, sadly, I've outgrown. Always contemplate a worst case scenario; ie if I can think of it, someone else probably already has. Or as Von C. puts it: 'Never count on your opponent doing what your brilliant (logical) plan calls for him to do...' Yamamoto's mistake at Midway.

[Mr Quatro]

Well, one did turn off the transponder and plunge his aircraft into the sea-so nothing new here. I like your counter scenario as to a defense of the cockpit except that the transponder was turned off ahead of the Co-pilot's saying "good night"...


That point is not yet proven they don't know when the ACARS system was turned off they only know that it didn't report the position when it was suppose to. Another Malaysian airline reporting problem

[Aktungbby]

^YUP! Apology; I got that reversed:doh: by two minutes: The ACARS was turned off after 1:07; "Good night" was uttered at 1:19 and the transponder switched off at 1:21. All told, a fourteen minute period... For days, we've been talking about the last transponder signal the plane sent. And now it appears another system that sends data about the plane, the Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System, was shut off, too (http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/15/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-flight-370-chronology/). Authorities say the last transmission from that system came early in the flight, at 1:07 a.m. But they say they don't know exactly when the system was shut down, as the next transmission wasn't due until 1:37 a.m. Someone inside the cockpit, believed to be the co-pilot, made the plane's last verbal communication with air traffic controllers at 1:19 a.m., saying, "All right, good night." The transponder was then switched off at 1:21 a.m., authorities say, and all civilian radar lost contact with the plane altogether about 1:30 a.m. Military radar last detected the plane at 2:15 a.m. off Malaysia's west coast, hundreds of miles off course. And at 8:11 a.m., more than seven hours after takeoff, a satellite made the last electronic connection, known as a "handshake," with the plane.

[TarJak]

The Malaysians are now claiming the last words from the cockpit came from the co-pilot: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-17/copilot-made-final-call-from-missing-malaysia-airlines-plane/5327064

Theories etc are all we have so whilst its natural for people to speculate, until we know it's pretty pointless.

[fireftr18]

I would be more cautious in talking about a topic (suicide) that I do not think you know a whole lot about.

Trying to mask a suicide attempt is not all that uncommon. A common reason is so that the person's family does not think it was suicide, that it was just an accident. There also may be religious reasoning behind what they do, such as not shaming their family further. It is also not at all uncommon for the person attempting suicide not to consider the potential harm to others, they are often totally stuck within themselves. Also of course there is the possibility of the person wanting to take revenge on everyone else for perceived harm to the individual by other groups or society.

Also your other statement about men and suicide is equally erroneous (though relationships can be a factor in a suicide, it is more often just a last straw). It is considerably harder to detect suicidal ideation than you think. Most people tend to be completely oblivious to the warning signs, and even for us professionals, assessing a person's risk for suicide is a challenge. The ones that are most likely to succeed are also the ones that do not give out any warning signs, as they do not want to be rescued or stopped. I cannot count the number of parents I have met that had absolutely no idea their son or daughter was at risk, or even depressed.

To add to your comments. In my experience, suicide is a very private, secret act. I have seen some make a small show of it, but they were extremely rare.
Suicide is an extremely selfish act of complete destitute desperation. I can't even imagine being in such a state of mind. When a person is willing to end his or her own life, without considering others, there is no logic.

[Admiral Halsey]

I'm not buying the suicide theory. If he really wanted to do that why turn back and keep flying the thing for 6+ hours instead of just nosing the plane straight into the water? My own personal theory is that Iran bought of the co-pilot and after he somehow knocked out the passengers.(Probably by depressurizing the plane somehow) he landed the plane in a Kazakhstan desert to meet with Iranians. Afterwards they refueled the plane and flew it to Iran. Then after studying the plane inside and out they load a couple of nukes onto the thing and fly it straight towards Israel.

[GoldenRivet]

I think we are at a point - that soon we should consider there is a very real possibility, assuming the aircraft did indeed crash, that virtually nothing of the aircraft may be located.

Eventually, a bank of overhead bins or seat cushions something of the sort may wash ashore in India or Australia perhaps... Possibly a year or even longer from now. But there comes a point in a search and recovery operation such as this where the search is eventually scaled down until there is no more search operation to speak of.

The search for Amelia Earhart lasted a couple of weeks. That mystery looms still today.

[Admiral Halsey]

I'm still not buying the theory it crashed in the Indian Ocean. It just makes no sense if you think about it. If the pilot wanted to commit suicide he could've just crashed the plane 10 minutes after take off. Why take all this time to fly the plane for another 7+ hours just to try and make it harder to find the wreckage after you've killed yourself? Unless the plane was also carrying something or someone we don't know about it doesn't make a lick of sense.

[GoldenRivet]

I'm still not buying the theory it crashed in the Indian Ocean. It just makes no sense if you think about it. If the pilot wanted to commit suicide he could've just crashed the plane 10 minutes after take off. Why take all this time to fly the plane for another 7+ hours just to try and make it harder to find the wreckage after you've killed yourself? Unless the plane was also carrying something or someone we don't know about it doesn't make a lick of sense.

Perhaps, in the interest of vanity the suicidal person just wanted to go down in history. Added to the list of great un solved aviation mysteries.

"They were never seen or heard from again" mixed with a ton if conspiracy theories and head scratching. People will remember this forever

[CCIP]

The other point to make here is that things don't always have to make sense. Suicide and terrorism are not very sensible things in any way, but people still find warped justifications for them and carry them out.

[GoldenRivet]

The other point to make here is that things don't always have to make sense. Suicide and terrorism are not very sensible things in any way, but people still find warped justifications for them and carry them out.

While true... It won't stop people from asking why.

Side note

I recall a maintenance function on the cockpit voice recorder that would allow the CVR tape to be erased. This was accessible from the cockpit on the few aircraft is flown that had a CVR.

Would be a shame if the individuals final act were to erase the CVR.

Of course you'd still have the FDR.

[CCIP]

While true... It won't stop people from asking why.

Side note

I recall a maintenance function on the cockpit voice recorder that would allow the CVR tape to be erased. This was accessible from the cockpit on the few aircraft is flown that had a CVR.

Would be a shame if the individuals final act were to erase the CVR.

Of course you'd still have the FDR.

yeah, I can't remember exactly now, but I believe exactly that was done in at least one incident before, where someone on board intentionally disabled the CVR.

[Flamebatter90]

I guess it depends of the plane, but I know some CVR systems do have an erase switch, which only works if the plane is on the ground.

[GoldenRivet]

Now that i look back on it... the CVR panel had a "Test" button (black) and an "erase" button (red) a simple "VU indicator" and an auxiliary headset plug.

The erase button would only function in so far as to erase the test recording if any.

Ie. you press and hold the test button and speak "testing one two three testing" and if the little VU indicator moved it meant it was recording normally. then you would press erase and only that "test" layer would be affected.

All of the permanent functions of the CVR could not be erased from the cockpit interface and would require removal of the CVR unit itself from somewhere in the tail.

I had to do some thinking back a long ways, but thats all that was that i was recalling. In that regards, i do not think there is any way to erase the CVR from the cockpit other than to unplug any and all headsets and smash the CVR microphone(s) on the overhead panel to pieces.

[TarJak]

Onthe Airbus A318/19/20/21 the pilot can erase the CVR. The following conditions must be met:

The aircraft is on the ground, and
The parking brake is on
Pressing the CVR ERASE pb for 2 seconds will then erase the tape. The Airbus CVR records the previous 2 hours.

On the Boeing 777 the same conditions must be met but you need to hold the erase button down for 10 seconds.

Of course doing so would also erase your job and maybe also your licence!

[Dread Knot]

CNN lately seems to be morphing into the SyFy channel regarding their reporting of Flight 370. Last night they 1) Reported that the "partner of a passenger" felt it in her gut that he was still alive. 2) Broadcast an unconfirmed video they found on YouTube that appeared to show the pilots passing through security, 3) Presented a scenario where one of the pilots crawled into the planes equipment bay and carefully unplugged cables to disable the communications systems.

What's next, calling-in the psychics and dowsers? Calling John Edward...

[Herr-Berbunch]

Who keeps mentioning 45,000 feet? My mate's a 777 pilot for Emirates, the other week he stuck a photo on FB of his alt at 43k and said they only had 100 feet left and that was the highest he'd ever been since as a passenger on Concorde, and he was transiting with no pax or freight. Gaining another two thousand feet whilst loaded seemed to me to be extremely difficult.

Unless there's much of a difference in engine power... :hmmm:

[Dread Knot]

The downside of crowd-sourcing. Courtney Love thinks she found the plane. Her MS-Paint skillz are rather impressive.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/news/courtney-love-claims-to-have-found-missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-9198965.html

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bi6mCbxCIAAbJo7.png

[Flamebatter90]

Does not sound too far fetched:
https://plus.google.com/106271056358366282907/posts/GoeVjHJaGBz

[GoldenRivet]

Probably the most logical conclusion yet

[Admiral Halsey]

A fire? What's the longest a jet has flown while on fire?

[Dread Knot]

A fire? What's the longest a jet has flown while on fire?


While making several turns at waypoints to boot.

[GoldenRivet]

A fire? What's the longest a jet has flown while on fire?

Its possible that the fire was extinguished, but the crew was left overcome by smoke. Not extraordinarily likely - but plausible.

While making several turns at waypoints to boot.

Assuming the FMS was operational and the diversion to an alternate was programmed into it (basically typing in the airport identifier and selecting an arrival from the list of procedures) the autopilot would have flown the whole segment until it reached the last waypoint and then would have probably defaulted to heading mode and synched the autopilot to continue on that heading until the pilot told it what to do from there. No conscious pilot translates to no FMS interruption translates to hold what you got til ya run outta gas

[swamprat69er]

Probably the most logical conclusion yet
I agree.

[Madox58]

Courtney Love thinks she found the plane.
Time for some more rehab I think.
:hmmm:

[Dread Knot]

Its possible that the fire was extinguished, but the crew was left overcome by smoke. Not extraordinarily likely - but plausible.

Assuming the FMS was operational and the diversion to an alternate was programmed into it (basically typing in the airport identifier and selecting an arrival from the list of procedures) the autopilot would have flown the whole segment until it reached the last waypoint and then would have probably defaulted to heading mode and synched the autopilot to continue on that heading until the pilot told it what to do from there. No conscious pilot translates to no FMS interruption translates to hold what you got til ya run outta gas

I guess I'm still having a hard time with this scenario. The hypothetical fire is serious enough that the pilots just have a fleeting moment to reprogram the autopilot and have no time to communicate with anybody about their problems. But for some reason this same event causes the transponder and the ACARS to fail at about the same time but leaves the flight deck in good enough shape that the autopilot can continue to control the aircraft for hours.

And either the incident is so serious that it disables the rest of the people on the plane or the locked flight deck door prevents people from taking control of the aircraft after the pilots are incapacitated. But why no desperate cell phone calls for help from the passengers? It seems for every theory there are holes big enough to fly a 777 through.

[Wolferz]

Somebody on that flight got merced... along with everyone else.:timeout:

[Mr Quatro]

Who keeps mentioning 45,000 feet? My mate's a 777 pilot for Emirates, the other week he stuck a photo on FB of his alt at 43k and said they only had 100 feet left and that was the highest he'd ever been since as a passenger on Concorde, and he was transiting with no pax or freight. Gaining another two thousand feet whilst loaded seemed to me to be extremely difficult.

Unless there's much of a difference in engine power... :hmmm:

Good point Herr-Berbunch :yep:

I got the 45,000 ft figure from CNN news, but I don't know where they got it from. CNN has also said that experts say no way can a Boeing 777 go up that far and then back down again in a short amount of time that they reported the plane did fly back to 23,000 ft level.

I can't figure out where they get the figure 5,000 ft either in saying that it flew back over the country of Malaysia at that height.

Most non military radars don't give altitude information from the signal of the radar at the tower, but depend on the transponder of the aircraft to relay that information to them ... all that leaves is Vietnam or Thailand or Malaysia itself with their military radars to report the altitude.

Lets say whoever is reporting this information is correct and the experts say the planes wings would fall off if it is by the way?

Lets say it did go that high ... why?

A struggle in the cockpit perhaps with the co-pilot pulling back on the yoke till the plane could go no higher?

The oxygen mask would've deployed ... the oxygen generator is only good for 15 minutes by the way and cell phones don't work if the plane is over 10,000 ft, as reported in the 911 crisis in which happen to be around cell phone towers.

Within say 12 minutes all the passengers are dead running out of air with the cockpit still having a separate supply of air.

Then the plane goes down to the deck of 5,000 ft to fly over Malaysia?

We don't have all of the information we need to make a sensible connection to a take over or the pilots themselves.

That plane that crashed on the way to France took two years to find and that's after they found parts in the water.

Sounds like a struggle to live happened in that cockpit and now why did the plane continue on for 6 hours?

Can the auto-pilot be turned off and the plane turned manually and then the auto-pilot be turned back on again with a new low ceiling of 5,000 feet dialed in?

Everyone says the computer had to be programed, but I'm not so sure of this.

In fact I can't see how the pilots could sit there in the cockpit for 6 to 7 hours waiting to die.

Could it be that everyone including the pilot and co-pilot were already dead?

One side note of humor ... did you notice the picture of the pilot wearing a tee-shirt with a submarine on it? Could he be a subsimmer :D

[nikimcbee]

What really happened...
http://0.tqn.com/d/lost/1/0/n/U/-/-/Hurley_Flare.jpg

oops, I hit the plane.


Coming to a tele near you.
They're baaaack.
http://www.geeksofdoom.com/GoD/img/2010/05/2010-05-019-lost.jpg

[donna52522]

Does not sound too far fetched:
https://plus.google.com/106271056358366282907/posts/GoeVjHJaGBz

More plausible than anything else I read in this thread, especially compared to the one about the aircraft being whisked away to a secret location to be used in the future...Even Hollywood wouldn't back a script like that, they'd have a better shot at selling Swampthing VI.

[MH]

One side note of humor ... did you notice the picture of the pilot wearing a tee-shirt with a submarine on it? Could he be a subsimmer]

With his skills he should wear one of those:

http://rlv.zcache.com/f_35_fighting_falcon_t_shirts-r141b7f1cf55e45a4b597db13d58fcf0d_vjfe2_324.jpg

[Herr-Berbunch]

Even Hollywood wouldn't back a script like that . . .

Only time will tell. :yep:

[Jimbuna]

More plausible than anything else I read in this thread, especially compared to the one about the aircraft being whisked away to a secret location to be used in the future...Even Hollywood wouldn't back a script like that, they'd have a better shot at selling Swampthing VI.

Give them a year or two :03:

[Madox58]

Give them a year or two :03:
And given the fact Cortney Love 'found' it?
I'd say a 4 parter mini-series.
:D

[Herr-Berbunch]

And given the fact Cortney Love 'found' it?
I'd say a 4 parter mini-series.
:D

Was she even using footage from the last two weeks? :hmmm:

Or does that mean that there was another aeroplane crash there in the last couple/few of years that we don't know about?

[Tchocky]

H-B

The ceiling of 43,100ft is there for a few reasons.

Aside from the physical aerodynamic limits of lift/drag ratios with thinner air, the main reasons for ceilings are due to pressurisation and emergency descent time constraints. For example, the fuselage may not be able to keep an 8,000ft cabin altitude differential as the outside pressure drops away. You also need to get down to 15,000ft within four minutes in case of emergency.
The aircraft can certainly fly higher, just not very much higher and the level of control is iffy. You could get to 45,000, almost certainly not maintain it.

The extra 100ft is for our side of things. Vertical separation is 1000ft in RVSM airspace, and an aircraft is considered to be occupying a flight level once it's within a hundred feet, plus or minus.

[Madox58]

Was she even using footage from the last two weeks? :hmmm:

Or does that mean that there was another aeroplane crash there in the last couple/few of years that we don't know about?

You know We ARE talking about Cortney Love right?
:har:

Given the same good stuff to smoke? I'd probably find 10 or more missing AirCraft in the same area.
:haha:

[GoldenRivet]

I guess I'm still having a hard time with this scenario. The hypothetical fire is serious enough that the pilots just have a fleeting moment to reprogram the autopilot and have no time to communicate with anybody about their problems.

1. Aviate

2. Navigate

3. Communicate

In that order ;)

[magic452]

I think I've found it.

http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt296/Magic452/GILLIGANFilght370_zpsfefe2fb8.jpg (http://s621.photobucket.com/user/Magic452/media/GILLIGANFilght370_zpsfefe2fb8.jpg.html)


I've always heard it
Navigate
Investigate
Communicate.

But it comes out about the same.
Magic

[Herr-Berbunch]

Thanks, Paddy. :salute:

[CCIP]

Here's a great article written by a pilot with a hypothesis which I would personally still lean towards:

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/

IMO, still far more sane and likely than any of the other scenarios.

[edit] I just realized that this is the same article as Flamebatter posted - just re-published on a bigger news source. My apologies, thanks for spotting it first :salute:

Wired did add some handy links in the article worth exploring, though!

[Dread Knot]

Here's a great article written by a pilot with a hypothesis which I would personally still lean towards:

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/

IMO, still far more sane and likely than any of the other scenarios.

That's the Chris Goodfellow theory which we have been discussing on the previous page.

[CCIP]

That's the Chris Goodfellow theory which we have been discussing on the previous page.

Yup, just edited my post before you posted! I realized I missed that page, all good now :up:

[Wolferz]

Here's a great article written by a pilot with a hypothesis which I would personally still lean towards:

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/

IMO, still far more sane and likely than any of the other scenarios.

[edit] I just realized that this is the same article as Flamebatter posted - just re-published on a bigger news source. My apologies, thanks for spotting it first :salute:

Wired did add some handy links in the article worth exploring, though!

Seems like the most plausible scenario.

CNN ( Crackpipe News Network) will likely blame it on alien abduction next.
:nope:

If you depend on CNN for your news well, I think you'd be better off with Faux news.

[Dread Knot]

Seems like the most plausible scenario.

CNN ( Crackpipe News Network) will likely blame it on alien abduction next.
:nope:

If you depend on CNN for your news well, I think you'd be better off with Faux news.

Sad to say, that spoon-bending psychic fraud Uri Geller has been brought into this. :down:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-uri-3242685

[swamprat69er]

What is the best news network in the states?

[Dread Knot]

What is the best news network in the states?

The BBC. :D

[swamprat69er]

The BBC. :D
British Broadcasting Corporation? In the 'states?

[Dread Knot]

British Broadcasting Corporation? In the 'states?

We have it on cable and radio, not to mention the internet. Tends to be a bit more objective since it often doesn't have a dog in the hunt here.

I've given up on the domestic brands. They all seem to have an axe to grind. And CNN has gone SyFy if not Bye-bye on this issue.

[GoldenRivet]

I'm afraid that "news" in the States has devolved into opinion reporting and talking heads telling us what to think. With the occasional dash of "Boise, Idaho couple boasts worlds fattest cat" or "kindergartener suspended for pointing finger at inanimate object" etc

With that said, it's best to source your news from a number of agencies, but even that practice is risky... Apparently the same guy writes for all the agencies.

Lol http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4460787/

[swamprat69er]

I like my news objective, not following someones biased ideas of what should be news. I will start following BBC.

[CCIP]

BBC also has its flaws of course, but IMO it's worth reading. Still my favourite news source.

I still try to read multiple sources, but lately they've been shrinking for me. Besides what's been mentioned about CNN here, I've also lost a couple of Russian news sources after Putin's goons took them over recently :(

BTW, BBC has this article: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26609687

At least a nice overview of all the things that have been floating around about this flight!

[NeonSamurai]

The BBC does that stuff too (I would hardly call it objective), you just may not be aware of it so much if you are not from the UK.

I use to like the news show that PBS had back in the day. Now though I prefer to get my news by proxy, as it is shorter, and I can filter it for bias based on the source quite easily.

[krashkart]

or "kindergartener suspended for pointing finger at inanimate object"

How shameful! :stare: The parents should have taught that child to be more respectful to inanimate objects. Why back in my day if we pointed at anything Pop would break a switch off the willow tree and give us each ten lashings. Then we had to scrub the floors with TOOTHBRUSHES and scouring powder. And then we had to go to bed hungry. And then we'd wake up in the morning, feed the cows, and walk THIRTY MILES barefoot through the snow, with an complete unabridged English dictionary under each arm (and another on our head to teach us poise and balance under duress. If the dictionary fell off our head we'd get ten lashings when we got to school, and ten more when we got home. And then we'd go to bed hungry). :O:

[swamprat69er]

How shameful! :stare: The parents should have taught that child to be more respectful to inanimate objects. Why back in my day if we pointed at anything Pop would break a switch off the willow tree and give us each ten lashings. Then we had to scrub the floors with TOOTHBRUSHES and scouring powder. And then we had to go to bed hungry. And then we'd wake up in the morning, feed the cows, and walk THIRTY MILES barefoot through the snow, with an complete unabridged English dictionary under each arm (and another on our head to teach us poise and balance under duress. If the dictionary fell off our head we'd get ten lashings when we got to school, and ten more when we got home. And then we'd go to bed hungry). :O:
and the 30 mile walk to school was all uphill, both ways.:haha:

[Jimbuna]

Is SkyNews available in the US?

I tend to hop between that and the BBC when watching tv at home.

[Wolferz]

... is Comedy Central. :haha:

Followed closely by Al Jazeera.

[mapuc]

You are talking about news and it is...well a little detour from the thread, so I will continue this detour

Some month ago I heard on Danish radio that 2/3 of American doesn't trust the news from the mainstream media.

When I heard this, my first thought was...subsim...yubba and many other friends here

Markus

[swamprat69er]

You are right! I DO NOT trust the Canadian news at all. The papers are even worse. They all seem to have their own agenda and paint the stories with whatever brush is the most dramatical and usually farthest from the truth.

[Oberon]

Just heard on the radio that the aircraft was heading south along the arc published by Malaya.

http://s.telegraph.co.uk/graphics/html/Years/2014/March/images/missing-plane-online.jpg

Heading for the South...Pole...?

:doh: :nope:

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/epic-jackie-chan-template.png

[CCIP]

Well, that might just lend more credence to the idea proposed in the article we've been discussing on the last couple of pages, that the crew simply became incapacitated and the plane flew on its own under noone's control and with no intentions.


***

Canadian news aren't too bad, but Canada has a huge problem with the concentration of our media industry on general. Two and a half companies own virtually all of our communication infrastructure along with news and entertainment outlets.

[Dread Knot]

I'm about ready to vote wormhole myself.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-d6K6LtoZPC4/Ux-QxoDLE0I/AAAAAAABY-4/CBTJcY2t7fI/s1600/wormholemalaysiaplane.jpg

[Admiral Halsey]

I'm about ready to vote wormhole myself.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-d6K6LtoZPC4/Ux-QxoDLE0I/AAAAAAABY-4/CBTJcY2t7fI/s1600/wormholemalaysiaplane.jpg

Sounds just as likely as any theory i've heard.

[Ducimus]

I'm about ready to vote wormhole myself.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-d6K6LtoZPC4/Ux-QxoDLE0I/AAAAAAABY-4/CBTJcY2t7fI/s1600/wormholemalaysiaplane.jpg

Obligatory:
Twilight zone: The Odyssey of Flight 33 - Part 1 (http://youtu.be/5RuIrMADj9U)
Twilight zone: The Odyssey of Flight 33 - Part 2 (http://youtu.be/VErYSJStm3s)
Twilight zone: The Odyssey of Flight 33 - Part 3 (http://youtu.be/lYIgEJnddAk)


:O:

[Dread Knot]

Obligatory:
Twilight zone: The Odyssey of Flight 33 - Part 1 (http://youtu.be/5RuIrMADj9U)
Twilight zone: The Odyssey of Flight 33 - Part 2 (http://youtu.be/VErYSJStm3s)
Twilight zone: The Odyssey of Flight 33 - Part 3 (http://youtu.be/lYIgEJnddAk)


:O:

Classic. You look for the plane in Spielbergs's Jurassic Park and I'll check out the grounds of the 1939 World's Fair in New York. :D

[Flamebatter90]

Just heard on the radio that the aircraft was heading south along the arc published by Malaya.

Only new information I've heard about the course is the possible Thai radar contact:
On Mar 19th 2014 the Marshal told Malaysia's Authorities, that an intermittent signal of an airliner was picked up at 01:28L as it headed towards Kuala Lumpur from the South China Sea, turned right towards Butterworth (Malaysia) and was lost from radar.

Butterworth/Penang is about 70 miles southwest of Pulau Langkawi that Chris Goodfellow mentions in his theory.

[BossMark]

I'm really worried about the people on the Malaysian airplane.

Can you imagine the looks of the air hostesses without 10 days of makeup?

[Tango589]

I'm really worried about the people on the Malaysian airplane.

Can you imagine the looks of the air hostesses without 10 days of makeup?
http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.607991683556442535&pid=15.1

http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.608003370158524991&pid=15.1



http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm260/tango589/man.jpg

[Herr-Berbunch]

Remember Ting Tong Macadangdang from Little Britain?

[Tango589]

No, sorry. Not really my cup of Darjeeling, I'm afraid.

[CCIP]

On the other hand, here's a worthy refutation to the article we've been discussing for the last couple of pages:

http://above70k.blogspot.ca/2014/03/why-startlingly-simple-theory-is-so.html

A gentleman by the name of Chris Goodfellow posted to Google+ his theory about what happened to Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. This post was subsequently reposted on Wired.com and quoted by the Christian Science Monitor. The Wired piece describes Mr. Goodfellow:
Chris Goodfellow has 20 years experience as a Canadian Class-1 instrumented-rated pilot for multi-engine planes.
There are so, so many things that are factually wrong with Goodfellow's piece that I honestly have to question if he is or ever was actually a pilot or has ever flown an aircraft himself. Regardless of his professional or technical experience with airplanes I cannot in good conscience leave the myriad falsehoods, misstatements, and faulty conjectures he made unchecked.

My background? I am a former US Air Force test pilot with over 5,000 hours in 35+ aircraft, including over 3,000 hours in heavy, multi-engine jets. I have corroborated much of what's written here with a current 777 pilot.

[Admiral Halsey]

And that counter-point to the theory states exactly why I never believed it to begin with.

[GT182]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=755&pictureid=7406

I'm with TDW on this one.

And heard thru the grapevine that it was found... on CraigsList.

One thing. If they flew long enough to run out of fuel, there probably won't be any 'oil/fuel' slick. But if they crashed into the ocean there has to be debris from the plane breaking up, even if the plane is 3 or 4 miles down on the sea floor.

If neither shows up then it's crashed on land. That being said, if there's no fuel then there's no fire. Well there could be a small unnoticed fire out in the middle of nowhere from residual fuel and what's left of engine oil.

Lastly, it could have landed out in the middle of nowhere. There's jungle galore over there in that part of the world, and desert no one sees out in the middle of Australia. But not found in 2 weeks leaves one wondering. Either TDW is right or it's just plain "Lost".

[GoldenRivet]

If it was belly landed intact in open water and subsequently sank there could be precious little debris to locate. Think of how much debris Sully left in the Hudson. None?

[Admiral Halsey]

If it was belly landed intact in open water and subsequently sank there could be precious little debris to locate. Think of how much debris Sully left in the Hudson. None?

That was different though. Landing on the Hudson in perfect conditions is nothing like trying to land on open ocean.

[GoldenRivet]

That was different though. Landing on the Hudson in perfect conditions is nothing like trying to land on open ocean.

Correct you are. Theoretically it was still dark too, so there is an added challenge.

[Tchocky]

Remember, those arcs described by the SATCOM pings aren't tracks, they're the range of possible positions the aircraft could have been in at one particular moment.

Given the heavy radar environment in China and Afghanistan, I think the aircraft was headed south.

I'm not comfortable making any supposition as to what was going on inside it.

[CCIP]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26659951?ocid=socialflow_facebook

more possible reports of debris, now off Australia. What are the chances of this being another false alarm? :hmmm:

[d@rk51d3]

Probably just more "asylum seekers".

[CaptainHaplo]

Press conference says...

We don't know what it is - but we are gonna keep checking on it!

[TarJak]

Probably just more "asylum seekers".
LOL. More likely to be containers off a ship in that area of ocean.

Interesting that with all the tech in the world we're reliant on the mk1 eyeball for most of this search.

[TarJak]

A good layperson description of ACARS the transponder and black box signalling that's been used to determine the likely search locations of the missing jet. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-19/tracking-flight-mh370-acars-and-transponder/5331124

[Flamebatter90]

The satellite images showing possible debris:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-20/raaf-en-route-to-possible-debris-from-mh370-in-indian-ocean/5334314

I honestly see nothing but swells.

[GoldenRivet]

The satellite images showing possible debris:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-20/raaf-en-route-to-possible-debris-from-mh370-in-indian-ocean/5334314


Im no expert at interpreting satellite images, but thats a tough sell for my ol' eye balls.

It looks like the sun glinting off of a swell in the water.

at this point, i suppose everything has to be considered though. If you look at it from the right angle it almost looks like a partially submerged portion of a vertical stabilizer.

But i have seen a lot of clouds that looked like bunnies and chickens and only turned out to be water vapor :shifty:

[TarJak]

Be intersting to know if these are infrared or other non-visual wavelength images. If they are just optical cameras then I'd have to agree there's not much to see, but worth a look under the circumstances.

[Jimbuna]

Here's hoping for a positive ID and a step nearer some form of closure for the families should the debris actually be from the plane.

Below is the BBC effort on the matter:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26659951

[Flamebatter90]

If the length of the debris is correct at 24 meters, width would be around 15-16 meters judging from the image. Is there anything of that size on a 777? Especially after crash?

The images are also four days old, the debris could have drifted anywhere from there.

[swamprat69er]

The satellite images showing possible debris:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-20/raaf-en-route-to-possible-debris-from-mh370-in-indian-ocean/5334314

I honestly see nothing but swells.
Picture one the object looks like a sea can.

The authorities are going to leave no tern unstoned in this one.

IF the relatives of the passengers sued MAL the lawsuit could be big enough to bankrupt them.

[Jimbuna]

Could be pices of fuselage or wing plus satellite coverage of the area will probably be increased to cover large areas.

[Mr Quatro]

But i have seen a lot of clouds that looked like bunnies and chickens and only turned out to be water vapor :shifty:

Man, what are you drinking in the cockpit? No way am I going to fly with a pilot that see's bunnies and chickens in the clouds. :haha:

The pictures I saw looked like the items in question were floating just below the surface of the water ... perhaps water logged?

That was Sunday and this is Thursday and a storm has just passed through.

I hope they find something I'm tired of the news being Putin or the Malaysian 777 ...

[Aktungbby]

Man, what are you drinking in the cockpit? No way am I going to fly with a pilot that see's bunnies ....in the clouds.:haha:...

Come on now! That all depends on your POV!:O: http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/140108111451-dc-9-playboy-horizontal-gallery.jpg

[STEED]

So it was alien abduction all long and on that note that's a rap.

Thanks for your not so insightful findings Mr Postman.

[BossMark]

I've just seen the pictures taken by satellite of the missing plane just off Australia. Can't see how they missed it though. Both pieces have bloody great signs stuck to them saying "Possible Object"!

[GT182]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26659951?ocid=socialflow_facebook

more possible reports of debris, now off Australia. What are the chances of this being another false alarm? :hmmm:

I say none. I say it's in the water and at the bottom of the Indian Ocean. If it had made dry land, someone somewhere would have more than likely seen it. There's too many people in that part of the world not to have seen it make landfall.

Now if no one did see it and it did make landfall, it's covered with camouflage of some sort so no one will see it. Tho I do hope that I am wrong and it landed with all souls onboard alive and well.

[Madox58]

:nope:
Saw some debis floating down the river near me.
Through the Beer goggles it looked like a part off a 777.
Or maybe a Chevette floating away?
:hmmm:

Please play Twilight Zone music here.

[Jimbuna]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVSRm80WzZk

[Madox58]

You may now add your name to the list of Asshats Jim.
:haha:
:03:

[Jimbuna]

No problem....I'll infract mesel :)

[swamprat69er]

Looks like the list of Asshats is growing.:har::haha:

[Madox58]

Latest news I have a link to.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2188506&postcount=14

:har:

[TarJak]

RAN searches the old fashioned way: http://www.smh.com.au/national/missing-malaysia-plane-captain-says-navy-searching-for-survivors-the-oldfashioned-way-20140321-358s0.html

[Jimbuna]

Not 100% 'old fashioned'....the Captain is female :)

[Flamebatter90]

Second day of search concluded, still no sign of any debris.

[TarJak]

Not 100% 'old fashioned'....the Captain is female :)

True that.

[Flamebatter90]

I wonder why DigitalGlobe has not shared the satellite images to Tomnod.com, they already have a bunch of sat images from the 14th and 16th of March, but none of them show the area they are concentrating their search on.

[Madox58]

Not 100% 'old fashioned'....the Captain is female :)

If she's anything like Nancy? She'll find it.
Nancy is the only one that can find all my 'missing' stuff!
:03:
:D

[STEED]

My money is on this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBizgLZX7W0

Jim lock and load we got one big mother to land, bring along your extra strong curry and BossMark the booze. :D

[swamprat69er]

My money is on this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBizgLZX7W0

Jim lock and load we got one big mother to land, bring along your extra strong curry and BossMark the booze. :D
That theory is just as good as all the rest of them out there.:)

[STEED]

That theory is just as good as all the rest of them out there.:)

Lots of room on the fishing boat, interested? :)

[swamprat69er]

Lots of room on the fishing boat, interested? :)
Too far to walk.:D Thanks for the invite though.:)

[Madox58]

Lots of room on the fishing boat, interested? :)

I've got air tanks!
Can I blow up a shark?
:o

[Jimbuna]

My money is on this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBizgLZX7W0

Jim lock and load we got one big mother to land, bring along your extra strong curry and BossMark the booze. :D

Rgr that....we'll have a vindaloo curried shark :sunny:

[Skybird]

Chief of Malaysian Airlines u-turns on former statements and now admits that the plane missing was operating on a certain type of highly flammable lithium batteries which has a reputation to be dangerous and that "contributed" to over 140 incidents in the last 20 years. source: FOCUS.

If now comparable characteristics to the batteries used in the Dreamliner B787 would be found, then this will become a news day to be remembered for Boeing.

[Admiral Halsey]

I was reading some comments about this and someone made a good point. We aren't using the one man who could find this thing. The man who found the Titanic, Bismark, and Yorktown wrecks. That's right Robert Ballard should be helping look for this thing.

[Flamebatter90]

Unless Ballard knows the location or even the general area of the plane, there is nothing he could contribute to the search.

[Admiral Halsey]

Unless Ballard knows the location or even the general area of the plane, there is nothing he could contribute to the search.

The Indian ocean isn't a general enough area for ya?

[Flamebatter90]

We don't know if it is in the Indian Ocean.

[Admiral Halsey]

We don't know if it is in the Indian Ocean.

Yeah I know. I believe the things in Iran getting ready to be used in an attack somewhere.

[Tchocky]

The likelihood of it being in Iran is somewhere up there with it being on the Moon, I'd say

[Dread Knot]

Yeah I know. I believe the things in Iran getting ready to be used in an attack somewhere.

About a third of the passenger planes of Iran's various domestic air lines are grounded due to the economic sanctions imposed on Iran. So why with so many surplus aircraft available for an attack would you go through the trouble of stealing one? Not to mention that the element of surprise that existed in the first week after the plane disappeared has been lost.

Then there is the diplomatic blowback. China is one of Iran's few remaining friends. Stealing a plane full of Chinese nationals guarantees losing what few friends you have.

[Dread Knot]

China now claims to have spotted debris by satellite in the South China Sea!


Malaysia's Acting Transport Minister Hishammuddin Hussein broke off the question and answer segment of his briefing in Kuala Lumpur to say: "The news that I just received is that the Chinese ambassador received satellite image of floating objects in the southern corridor and they will be sending ships to verify."
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26697048

Given the source is a Malaysian official, read with skepticism. The way the Malaysian Authorities have handled this incident has been a dog's breakfast from the get-go

[Jimbuna]

Tony Abbot, the Australian prime minister, speculated that object that has been spotted could be a shipping container or something other than plane wreckage.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/22/mh370-search-continues-as-australian-pm-vows-to-find-wreckage--live-updates

[CCIP]

Meanwhile, for those of you who might enjoy this kind of thing, I posted a little AAR in the flight sim screenshots thread of my 11-hour simulated P-3 flight to the current search area: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=102648&page=266

Salute to those doing it for real out there right now! :salute: :yep:

[NeonSamurai]

Dunno if this was mentioned before but apparently the airplane was carrying a shipment of lithium-ion batteries.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/21/the-secret-far-deep-hunt-for-mh370.html

[Tchocky]

I don't see the batteries having much of anything to do with the disappearance.

Unless there was a fire so severe it disabled the cargo hold fire warning/suppression systems as well as all communications except SATCOM, yet still allow the aircraft to keep flying for hours.

[CCIP]

One thing's for sure - it seems that there's something floating in that part of the ocean, and it's larger than 20m meaning it's something a little bigger than a shipping container. Whatever it is, hope they get eyes on it soon so they can either move forward or rule things out.

[mapuc]

Been thinking

What if every one of these scenarios is correct at some part
(Do understand I don't mean those scenario where UFO, Aliens is involved)

What if something happened right after start and something more happen later on a.s.o a.s.o

I could of cource be wrong.

Markus

[Madox58]

lithium-ion batteries

Even the U.S. Post Office has fits if you try to send those by mail!
Here's a GREAT Idea!
Let's put a bunch of them on a plane and see what happens.
:hmmm:

Some Species of Grays hunt the Universe for those I hear.
:D

[Flamebatter90]

Possible debris spotted by a civilian aircraft.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/search-for-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-objects-seen-with-naked-eye-20140323-35b4m.html

[Madox58]

How do you put a thread on ignore?

[swamprat69er]

How do you put a thread on ignore?

Open the thread you want to ignore and click on 'thread tools' the third one down is 'unsubscribe from this thread', click on that and you will be unsubscribed.

[TarJak]

How do you put a thread on ignore?

Look at the thread title and who posted last in it, then dont click on the link to open the thread.:O:

[TarJak]

New possible debris sightings: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-23/missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-mh370-france-satellite-images/5339788

[Madox58]

Look at the thread title and who posted last in it, then dont click on the link to open the thread.:O:

Back in your cell smarty pants!
:D

[TarJak]

You were warned :O:

[Madox58]

You were warned :O:
Don't make me pull out the club!
Back in your cell!
:D

[swamprat69er]

Don't make me pull out the club!
Back in your cell!
:D
Pull your club, ya, sure.:haha:
I really don't think that stub will intimidate him.:)

[TarJak]

:har:

[Madox58]

Hey! Who the heck rattled the Rat cage?
:o
If I want your input? I'll beat it out of you!
:haha:
Canada and Australia.
The two places England sent people after the U.S. stopped takeing them.
:D
:03:

So when does Canada claim a spotting of the 777?

[CCIP]

So when does Canada claim a spotting of the 777?
http://i.imgur.com/GBxCXFR.jpg

You called? :hmm2:

(this is what I got when I googled "777 in Canada")

[swamprat69er]

If I want your input? I'll beat it out of you!
:haha:


Don't get lost on your way here.

[TarJak]

Chinese search aircraft operating out of Perth has reported seeing suspected debris in the Southern Indian Ocean. http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-24/chinese-search-plane-finds-suspicious-objects-in-indian-ocean/5341692

[Jimbuna]

Canada and Australia.
The two places England sent people after the U.S. stopped takeing them.
:D
:03:



LOL :)

[CCIP]

Well, looks like the Malaysian PM has now admitted what I regarded as the obvious - the plane was lost in the Indian ocean. RIP and condolences to the families :(

[Wolferz]

They've finally accepted the inevitable.

Maybe now they can get back to ignoring the living.:hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

Well, looks like the Malaysian PM has now admitted what I regarded as the obvious - the plane was lost in the Indian ocean. RIP and condolences to the families :(

Rgr that....I wonder how far they will scale down the search efforts now if it is only debris they are looking for?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26716572

[Mr Quatro]

Well, looks like the Malaysian PM has now admitted what I regarded as the obvious - the plane was lost in the Indian ocean. RIP and condolences to the families :(

Now the law suits can begin ... good-by Malaysian airlines.

I didn't know China could sue anything?

[Schroeder]

Rgr that....I wonder how far they will scale down the search efforts now if it is only debris they are looking for?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26716572
They will probably be looking for the black box as well just to find out what the hell actually happened.:-?

[STEED]

Widen the search to the Moon you never know. :03:

[Mr Quatro]

They will probably be looking for the black box as well just to find out what the hell actually happened.:-?


The black box on triple 7's re-writes itself and only the last two hours of flight will be on it :yep:

[Admiral Halsey]

The black box on triple 7's re-writes itself and only the last two hours of flight will be on it :yep:

You've got to be kidding me. So even if they find the things we might never know why the plane ended up where it did? WHY THE HECK IS THERE NOT A DATE STORAGE FOR THAT INFO!!!???

[GoldenRivet]

It is misleading to use the term "black box" and the media is guilty of using this "dumb down" term more than anything

Not only are these boxes painted high visibility orange, but there are generally two separate pieces of tech which are often referred to as a single "Black Box" or plural "Black Boxes"

first is the Cockpit Voice Recorder or CVR

Second is the Flight Data Recorder of FDR

Usually separate devices

The CVR only records sounds that occur which are audible within the cockpit of the aircraft, for the past 8 or 9 years, regualtions have required that only the preceding 30 minutes of flight deck sounds be recorded, despite the NTSB recommendation of 2 hours.

The FDR records a set of conditions, control positions, switch positions, speeds, altitudes, rates of acceleration/ deceleration, active warnings etc

While convenient, especially in a case such as this, accidents can be solved with a high degree of certainty even in situations where the CVR fails to record a single sound... especially if the FDR data is recoverable.

So it is possible that the CVR will produce 30 minutes to 2 hours of silence, while the FDR, if ever recovered will tell a story all it's own.

given information that puts the aircraft in the southern Indian Ocean, in addition to the information which suggests that Lithium Batteries were recently installed on the aircraft, it is plausible that the crew and passengers were overcome with noxious fumes when the batteries overheated, with electrical systems possibly affected in some way, the crew turned back, only to fall victim to the fumes and pass out, at this point the aircraft would have remained on its new course until fuel was exhausted.

Occam's razor: Given a series of competing theories or hypothesis, the one that makes the fewest assumptions is generally the one that is correct.

[Jimbuna]

They will probably be looking for the black box as well just to find out what the hell actually happened.:-?

Rgr that...very much a recovery exercise now.

[TarJak]

Given they're able to locate the wreckage.

[TarJak]

Nice article on the largely rubbish reporting of the incident: http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-24/mcdonell-media-frenzy-descends-on-mh370-mystery/5340242

[Platapus]

I wonder if any of our submarines were within a buttload of miles where they could have heard the splash? I am sure the exact distance is classified but I have been told by some Navy people that our subs can hear stuff from a "very long way away".

[Herr-Berbunch]

I see Jeremy Clarkson is facing some stick now for a comment on twitter. People really need to lighten up unless they're somehow involved.

[TarJak]

How the Inmarsat data tracked the flight via ACARS after other comms had ceased: http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-25/british-satellite-interrogated-mh37027s-pings-to-plot-final-ro/5342690

[Mr Quatro]

http://cagematch.dvorak.org/index.php?topic=3751.0


The parts for commercial airliners such as the Boeing 727 and 737 were once manufactured almost exclusively in the United States. But the parts on today's big jets, such as Boeing's 777 and its planned 787, are made in such countries as China, Japan, Brazil, Italy, France and Australia,largely because they are cheaper.


If they find debris I wonder if they can tell where it was made :o

[Dread Knot]

http://cagematch.dvorak.org/index.php?topic=3751.0



If they find debris I wonder if they can tell where it was made :o

Well, the plane involved in this tragedy wasn't a Dreamliner 787, as mentioned in the article. It was a 777. I'm fairly certain the manufacturer (Boeing) already has a manifest on record specifying where each and every part was made for this particular plane.

[Jimbuna]

I'm pretty sure it would be stamped "Made in China".
Everything else made there is.

You may well be right :)

[BossMark]

Not sure id this as been posted before but its last up date was 7:08pm UK, Tuesday 25 March
http://news.sky.com/story/1231748/seven-blunders-in-hunt-for-missing-airliner

[Admiral Halsey]

Been hearing rumors that the stuff in the Indian Ocean might NOT actually be from the flight. If true it's back to square one and more endless speculation.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Been hearing rumors that the stuff in the Indian Ocean might NOT actually be from the flight. If true it's back to square one and more endless speculation.

Not quite square one, now the data from Inmarsat has been verified and public it confirms the region as the Southern Indian Ocean, not square one - Gulf of Thailand, square 1.1.0 - Vietnam, square 1.1.1 - South China Sea, square 1.1.2 - Andaman Sea, square 1.1.2b - Malacca Strait, . . . square 2.0.0 Kazakhstan, square 2.0.1 Bangladesh, square 2.0.2 Secret Chinese Airfield, square 3.0.0 Chagos Islands, . . .

[CCIP]

Been hearing rumors that the stuff in the Indian Ocean might NOT actually be from the flight. If true it's back to square one and more endless speculation.

Not really. The data analysis from Inmarsat, combined with the radar data from the countries along the northern arc (and lack of any evidence of an unknown 777 on it), is pretty reliable. They know where the pings came from - unless an engine detached and flew on its own without the plane for 7 hours while sending pings, that's not possible. What is easily possible, of course, is that what they think is debris isn't from the plane at all. But the plane is somewhere out there. And it's totally plausible that they won't find it, but with this search, they will probably eventually get some kind of sign.

Rumors are rumors!

[Platapus]

You've got to be kidding me. So even if they find the things we might never know why the plane ended up where it did? WHY THE HECK IS THERE NOT A DATE STORAGE FOR THAT INFO!!!???

Because the recorder might also record information that will increase the airline's liability. Not every one wants a complete set of data about a crash.

[flostt]

What i don't understand is that if there was an emergency situation i guess the pilot would have switched off the autopilot and taken over manual control.

Assuming the crew and passengers were overcome with noxious fumes and consequently passed out, why did the plane continue to fly (on autopilot?) for several hours ?

[TarJak]

No one knows what happened to either the crew or passengers so until new information comes along there's no point speculating

[Sailor Steve]

I thought right from the start there was no point speculating, but this thread is now 30 pages and 440 posts in, so I'd say most disagree.

[CCIP]

It's an internet forum:88) does anyone really expect us to be patient and reasonable when there's all sorts of crazy and far-fetched stuff to fantasize over?:O:

[TarJak]

Yes Steve and I do. :D

[Oberon]

I dread to think what the corresponding thread at pprune is like...

*goes to check*

Welp, 411 pages and 8205 posts, or one days worth of Jimbunas posting. :03:

[Dread Knot]

Evidence continues to grow. They're now reporting up to 122 objects in this area of the Indian Ocean.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26748146

[Jimbuna]

My gut instinct tells me that should they be searching in the right area then something will eventually turn up.

It would be most helpful if an aircraft was in the vicinity of a satellite sighting but I'm not sure how long a transfer of satellite data would take.

[Dread Knot]

It's a times like these that I wish we still had those lumbering flying boats in service. Imagine a British Beauty like the Saunders-Roe Princess with an endurance of 15 hours flying over the area. :up: It could even set down to pick up debris if the sea conditions permitted.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9c/Saro_Princess_G-ALUN_Farnborough_1953.jpg

All remaining examples scrapped in 1967 sadly.

[krashkart]

^^ :o I had no idea such a plane ever existed. Cool! :rock:

[STEED]

Ban all air planes from flying again, problem solved and no more threads like this one.

[CCIP]

Ban all air planes from flying again, problem solved and no more threads like this one.

So what do we do with the thousands of planes already in service? Clip their wings and turn them into theme park rides? :O:

And Jim, I think all the satellite data there is already days old. It's not the data transfer so much as the analysis that takes time - as far as I understand, it's still something that can't really be done by a machine for objects this size in rough seas, so people have to scour through everything with mk I eyeball.

[STEED]

So what do we do with the thousands of planes already in service? Clip their wings and turn them into theme park rides? :O:



No, sell off the scrap metal and make millions of £££££ then buy a private island and put signs up beware of the bog monster. :D

[Aktungbby]

So what do we do with the thousands of planes already in service? Clip their wings and turn them into theme park rides?:O:

Already done at Evergreen Museum, McMinnville OR; no need to clip the wings on this 747-100 waterslide! :salute: http://search.earthlink.net/search?q=Photo+747+Mcminnville+air+museum&area=earthlink-ws&abtli=0&abtcgid=87 (http://search.earthlink.net/search?q=Photo+747+Mcminnville+air+museum&area=earthlink-ws&abtli=0&abtcgid=87)http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Evergreen_Air_and_Space_Museum_water_slide_-_McMinnville%2C_Oregon.JPG/800px-Evergreen_Air_and_Space_Museum_water_slide_-_McMinnville%2C_Oregon.JPG (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Evergreen_Air_and_Space_Museum_water_slide_-_McMinnville%2C_Oregon.JPG)

[Jimbuna]

So what do we do with the thousands of planes already in service? Clip their wings and turn them into theme park rides? :O:

And Jim, I think all the satellite data there is already days old. It's not the data transfer so much as the analysis that takes time - as far as I understand, it's still something that can't really be done by a machine for objects this size in rough seas, so people have to scour through everything with mk I eyeball.

Yeah, I notice the latest is material is already three days old.

I wonder if it would be possible to plot/track provided the weather is good enough.

[BossMark]

It's good to see that International Rescue have brought along Thunderbird 4 to locate MH370's black box.

[Dread Knot]

I'm looking at the latest ill-defined pictures of these objects and I'm wondering--do Antarctic ice floes routinely make it this far north?

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/73818000/png/_73818664_plane.png

[STEED]

Cover up or cock up take your pick.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Cover up or cock up take your pick.

My personal, ill-informed, opinion is cock-up over cover-up. But it was close for a while.

[STEED]

"Cock up"
Another British phrase I had to look up.
:haha:

It's a keeper!
:03:

Could I use it such as....
"Don't cock it up!"
:hmmm:

Yes you can. :up:
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/cock-up

[Herr-Berbunch]

Could I use it such as....
"Don't cock it up!"
:hmmm:

You most certainly can.

Don't cock it up!

I've cocked up!

I've cocked it up, again!

She cocked up the food!

He's cocking it up!

This is a right cock up!

[STEED]

:har::har::har:

[Platapus]

Absent of any diagnostic evidence, always choose a mistake over conspiracy. :up:

[Herr-Berbunch]

So did Platapus cock up by not putting cock up in the first place, or is that a conspiracy too.

Aliens. :arrgh!:

[BossMark]

Cock up sounds a lot better than conspiracy :yep:

[STEED]

Cock up sounds a lot better than conspiracy :yep:

How about this one...http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/tits-up

[TarJak]

I'm looking at the latest ill-defined pictures of these objects and I'm wondering--do Antarctic ice floes routinely make it this far north?

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/73818000/png/_73818664_plane.png

Not at this time of year. It's only just Autumn this end of the globe.

[TarJak]

Could also be a cover up of a cock up. :D

Good to see Jeff learning English. :O:

[Dread Knot]

Not at this time of year. It's only just Autumn this end of the globe.

Ah. Thank you. Had a feeling it couldn't be that simple. :D

[TarJak]

Ask PC Wetty Pants. He's got the keys to the brig.

[mapuc]

Been reading a new scenario in the Swedish newspaper Aftonbladet.se

According to this scenario the two pilot is either dead or unconscious and the security door is closed and locked. The passengers are unaware of this. The plane is on autopilot and continue until there's no more fuel.

If this is a plausible scenario-how did these two pilot die or fainted? and not the passengers? I'm thinking on decompression of the hull.

Or are we talking about a common suicide by these two pilotes(it have been mentioned)



Markus

[Tchocky]

Don't think so, mapuc.

Cabin crew tend to have a lot of communications with the flight deck.

[mapuc]

Don't think so, mapuc.

Cabin crew tend to have a lot of communications with the flight deck.

I think they ment after the last message from the pilot.

Feel like it's not what you was talking about.

Markus

[Tchocky]

I meant the flight attendants. If the pilots were incapacitated and not the cabin crew it would have been noticed

[mapuc]

I meant the flight attendants. If the pilots were incapacitated and not the cabin crew it would have been noticed

Aha. So this scenario can't be true. Looked very trustworthy to me, but I'm no aviation expert.

Markus

[TarJak]

The cabin and cockpit all breath the same air so a decompression of one is a decompression of both so both would be impacted.

[Tchocky]

Sort of. Depends on altitude. Above FL400 you need a positive oxygen pressure so the cabin masks won't do anything, cockpit masks will work in this situation.

Still trying to refrain from speculation on this. Utterly baffling.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Still trying to refrain from speculation on this.

It's hard not to when you hear so much rubbish being spouted as the answer. :-?

Although I think an old mate's post on FB earlier tonight may have the truth sorted.

I've worked it out. Maddie sold to Malaysia, they made her a pilot along with Jimmy Savile. Their plane was shot down by Russians trying to distract from the Ukraine. Malaysia are stalling because they know they will be in trouble for underage pilots. The Australians are using this as a ploy to hide Steve Irwins body because he was killed by Aborigines not a stingray. All makes sense now.

Seems legit. :D

[TarJak]

Sort of. Depends on altitude. Above FL400 you need a positive oxygen pressure so the cabin masks won't do anything, cockpit masks will work in this situation.

Still trying to refrain from speculation on this. Utterly baffling.
Correct but I was talking about the normal cabin air and not the oxy mask systems which are segregated.

[Flamebatter90]

As I understand it, the cockpit door can be opened from the outside in case the flight crew is incapacitated.

[Wolferz]

As I understand it, the cockpit door can be opened from the outside in case the flight crew is incapacitated.


We couldn't find the key.:-?

[Jimbuna]

As I understand it, the cockpit door can be opened from the outside in case the flight crew is incapacitated.

You may well be right but if that is the case, the flight crew would be vulnerable to terrorist attack.

[TarJak]

:haha: Taxi for PC Wetty Pants!

[mapuc]

When I read in the news, that they had changed the search area(once again) this time nearer Australia I got this wierd thought-I was halfway through this thought....no way

Markus

[Jimbuna]

:haha: Taxi for PC Wetty Pants!

A further lifetimes servitude in the penal colony :stare:

:03:

:nope:
LIMO! Dude. LIMO!
:har:

Shoulda wet on his seat come to think of it...I may have met you a few minutes earlier then :)

:03:

[TarJak]

Multiple objects sighted from raaf and rnzaf aircraft. Chinese ship to be in the area today so we should know a little more by tomorrow. http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-28/malaysia-airlines-mh370-aircraft-spot-multiple-objects/5353642

[TarJak]

Multiple objects picked up by ships in the sarch area but nothing confirmed as coming from the aircraft: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-28/china-ship-hunts-objects-seen-from-air-as-search-shifts.html

[Oberon]

One really has to feel for the relatives of people on this flight, I mean there is no closure, until they are able to positively ID wreckage from the flight and/or find the FDR, and the Malaysian authorities have struggled with this from the beginning, it's little wonder there's a lot of anger directed at them and the Chinese authorities, although when one looks at it in retrospect, there hasn't really been much in the way of data that the authorities can report on, although the whole informing the families by text message thing was a disgrace.

I wonder if we'll ever know...

[STEED]

The media has milked this one dry and still dose not get the point.

I shall state what I witness, a friend of mind shouted at the TV news stop telling us the same old thing we don't give a BLEEP. Tell us when you found it and not this....At this point lots of swearing and throwing the TV remote across the room.

Not for the first or last time the news media milking machine is let loose.

[GoldenRivet]

This method of searching seems incredibly inefficient.

They send out aircraft to search, when the aircraft spots possible debris, they then transmit the position of said debris to those individuals coordinating the search efforts who in turn route ships to the site to visually inspect the debris - ships which could be hours or days away.

so my late night wheels started turning, and i got to thinking the boys at subsim will call BS on this if its not possible so i'll share it with them...

I got to thinking about a type of pod, perhaps one made of some sort of dense and durable plastic resin which could be dropped from the aircraft. About 5 meters in length and about 2.5 meters in width and about 2.5 meters in height.

The pod would be self righting like one of those escape boats on ocean liners or perhaps the thing could be designed in some sort of symmetrical fashion so that it is meant to float on its belly hull or it's top hull either way it lands in the water it will appear "upright"

Contained inside this pod would be a balloon, CO2 tank, 1,500 feet of spooled cable, a battery, an ELT transmitter, and a remotely operated quad rotor UAV. a small set of water tight doors are built onto the top hull and bottom hull so that no matter how it landed, doors would be on top of it.

Within, the Quad rotor is mounted on some sort of counter weighted gimbals so that no matter how the pod landed the quad rotor would be right side up

The aircraft, either carrying the pod inside or attached by hard points under the wing or fuselage would fly very low overhead near the area of sighted debris and would then drop the pod into the water.

As the pod falls it would be stabilized by a small drogue chute possibly. (think C-130 low altitude drop out the back door)

The pod skims across the water until it comes to rest at which point small water tight doors on the top open up via small electric motors.

By this time the search aircraft is circling overhead. The UAV pilot aboard the search plane, launches the quad rotor UAV from the pod and remotely pilots it to the debris field while watching on a monitor aboard the search plane. From here, the pilot of the quad rotor can record clips of video he views through the camera, or capture still images of the debris up close and personal from close camera range (20 feet?).

these images can be viewed by specialists aboard the search plane in real time, or in flight wifi can be used to send them to those people coordinating the search where they can be reviewed by specialists in "near real time" there on the ground.

With fairly immediate effect it can be determined if the debris is related to an aircraft accident or if it is just rubbish floating in the sea.

If it is confirmed to be crash wreckage, the pilot of the quad rotor can activate the ELT aboard the pod remotely which will transmit its position until it is switched off or the battery has died, additionally a simple blinker light could be activated aboard the pod. this would transmit the wreckage position with more accuracy for search vessels on the surface.

at this point the Quad rotor pilot can simply crash the quad rotor or attempt to land it back aboard the POD where it would be enclosed back inside for recovery later.

If the debris sighting is discovered to be just garbage - the operational process changes... with enough skill - and this is the hard part - the quad rotor could be landed back in the hold of the pod... the doors closed onto it.. the CO2 tank fills the balloon which escapes into the air towing with it the 1500 feet of cable and a la Fulton recovery system (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PErEsNhDmo8), the aircraft grabs the wire and the pod is recovered into the hold of the aircraft.

Once back aboard, the Pod is inspected by the UAV pilot to check for any damage and to reset or replace any equipment aboard the pod if needed.

This has a few benefits: 1. the POD could be reused in the event that more debris is spotted later in the search by the same aircraft 2. it allows the pod to be brought back and reused multiple times for other search operations in the future (completely reusable) 3. it does not leave behind materials which could possibly be mistaken for debris by subsequent searches of the area. 4. Almost total elimination of the many hours or days spent repositioning ships to the area only to find debris unrelated to the search. (more efficient deployment of search resources)

Limitations to the use of such a device would primarily be the condition of the sea; obviously this would be impractical for uses in anything above a sea state of 3 or 4 due to the difficulty inherent in landing the quad rotor back aboard the pod in such conditions. Given this, the quad rotor would have to be cost effective enough so as to be considered expendable (ie, the pod could be recovered by the aircraft without the quad rotor and replacements could be stored aboard the aircraft)

aircraft with rear ramp doors such as the C-130 would be perfectly suited for such a search asset.

thoughts?

[TarJak]

Complex but possible physically.

[TarJak]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-31/malaysia-airlines-mh370-orange-objects-fishing-equipment/5357476

Fishing gear found, still no aircraft parts.

[BossMark]

A transcript of the final conversations between the control tower and Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 has been released.
MAS 370 (Kuala Lumpur to Beijing)
PILOT-ATC RADIOTELEPHONY TRANSCRIPT
Departure from KLIA: 8 March 2014
ATC DELIVERY
12:25:53 MAS 370 Delivery MAS 370 Good Morning
12:26:02 ATC MAS 370 Standby and Malaysia Six is cleared to Frankfurt via AGOSA Alpha Departure six thousand feet squawk two one zero six
12:26:19 ATC ... MAS 370 request level
12:26:21 MAS 370 MAS 370 we are ready requesting flight level three five zero to Beijing
12:26:39 ATC MAS 370 is cleared to Beijing via PIBOS A Departure Six Thousand Feet squawk two one five seven
12:26:45 MAS 370 Beijing PIBOS A Six Thousand Squawk two one five seven, MAS 370 Thank You
12:26:53 ATC MAS 370 Welcome over to ground
12:26:55 MAS 370 Good Day
LUMPUR GROUND
12:27:27 MAS 370 Ground MAS370 Good morning Charlie One Requesting push and start
12:27:34 ATC MAS370 Lumpur Ground Morning Push back and start approved Runway 32 Right Exit via Sierra 4.
12:27:40 MAS 370 Push back and start approved 32 Right Exit via Sierra 4 POB 239 Mike Romeo Oscar
12:27:45 ATC Copied
12:32:13 MAS 370 MAS377 request taxi.
12:32:26 ATC MAS37..... (garbled) ... standard route. Hold short Bravo
12:32:30 MAS 370 Ground, MAS370. You are unreadable. Say again.
12:32:38 ATC MAS370 taxi to holding point Alfa 11 Runway 32 Right via standard route. Hold short of Bravo.
12:32:42 MAS 370 Alfa 11 Standard route Hold short Bravo MAS370.
12:35:53 ATC MAS 370 Tower
12:36:19 ATC (garbled) ... Tower ... (garbled)
MAS 370 1188 MAS370 Thank you
LUMPUR TOWER
12:36:30 MAS 370 Tower MAS370 Morning
12:36:38 ATC MAS370 good morning. Lumpur Tower. Holding point..[garbled]..10 32 Right
12:36:50 MAS 370 Alfa 10 MAS370
12:38:43 ATC 370 line up 32 Right Alfa 10. MAS 370 Line up 32 Right Alfa 10 MAS370.
12:40:38 ATC 370 32 Right Cleared for take-off. Good night.
MAS 370 32 Right Cleared for take-off MAS370. Thank you Bye.
LUMPUR APPROACH
12:42:05 MAS 370 Departure Malaysian Three Seven Zero
12:42:10 ATC Malaysian Three Seven Zero selamat pagi identified. Climb flight level one eight zero cancel SID turn right direct to IGARI
12:42:48 MAS 370 Okay level one eight zero direct IGARI Malaysian one err Three Seven Zero
12:42:52 ATC Malaysian Three Seven Zero contact Lumpur Radar One Three Two Six good night MAS 370 Night One Three Two Six Malaysian Three Seven Zero
LUMPUR RADAR (AREA)
12:46:51 MAS 370 Lumpur Control Malaysian Three Seven Zero
12:46:51 ATC Malaysian Three Seven Zero Lumpur radar Good Morning climb flight level two five zero
12:46:54 MAS370 Morning level two five zero Malaysian Three Seven Zero
12:50:06 ATC Malaysian Three Seven Zero climb flight level three five zero
12:50:09 MAS370 Flight level three five zero Malaysian Three Seven Zero
01:01:14 MAS370 Malaysian Three Seven Zero maintaining level three five zero
01:01:19 ATC Malaysian Three Seven Zero
01:07:55 MAS370 Malaysian...Three Seven Zero maintaining level three five zero
01:08:00 ATC Malaysian Three Seven Zero
01:19:24 ATC Malaysian Three Seven Zero contact Ho Chi Minh 120 decimal 9 Good Night
01:19:29 MAS370 Good Night Malaysian Three Seven Zero

[Jimbuna]

HMS Tireless joins the search for the black box.

British submarine HMS Tireless has joined the hunt for missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

The Ministry of Defence said the Trafalgar class submarine had arrived in the southern Indian Ocean and would help search for the plane's black box recorder.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26845118

[TarJak]

China reports a pulse: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-05/malaysia-airlines-mh3703a-chinese-search-vessel-detects-pulse/5370186

[Jimbuna]

Well here's hoping :sunny:

[TarJak]

Joint search command are holding a media conference right now announcing the reports from the Chinese news agencies are not yet verified but that the signal has been picked up a second time within 2km of the original signal.

Additionally white floating objects have been sighted about 90 km from where the signal was first picked up.

RAAF and RAN assets are being deployed to the new search area.

Apparently the RAN vessel Ocean Shield is investigating another acoustic event 300NM away from the Chinese vessel.

EDIT: ABC News report: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-06/malaysia-airlines-mh370-black-box-event-signal-investigated/5370558

[scorpiondown]

My two cents worth.......If you ask me , i think the US and probably Australia know ,if not the exact, but the pretty likely location if it went down in the Indian ocean.(or ANYWHERE else) First, some radar or satellite somewhere has the flight path unless Major Kong was flying the plane(frying chickens in the barnyard)Today though,probably some satellite/airborne radar would still be able to track a plane skimming the waves...Second....
If the US found the Scorpion 46 yrs ago with its acoustic devices,,,look how much technology has progressed since then...I doubt anything that happens on or in the oceans goes un-noticed..And you think those areas of the world aren,t under heavy surveillance?? What is the biggest power in that area ? China!! Think the US isn,t listening to them everywhere??After reading about cold war surveillance with the Russians and how every move they made was monitored,,it probably is mind-boggling what they can do today..

As for reason why they aren,t coming forward with the info,,,why should they?? doesn,t change anything...Only would tip their hand about what our capabilities are to China or India for that matter:hmmm: I,d fly search planes like a blind man also to screen the real capabilities!
(sorry if someone else said this also,,,didn,t read through the entire thread)

[TarJak]

None of that makes any sense. :nope:

[CCIP]

And what technology is that which can do all of these things, praytell?

the difficult word there is "probably". I'd word it more as "improbably" because there's no real technological basis to make that claim.

[Herr-Berbunch]

I think the guy is under the assumption that the western (and southern!) world has the whole world under radar/satellite surveillance, every square inch, but the tech used isn't shouted about but prolly along the lines of BMEWS.

If one of those countries did have the tech, and they did know, there are ways of incorporating that information provided into other means to share with the world, and not wait this long and spend this money.

[August]

If tipping our technical hand was a concern then it seems to me it'd be pretty easy to fake a lucky find by the aircraft and ships we have in the area already.

[CCIP]

Well there are some people suggesting that if - and that's a big if - this latest purported pinger signal find by the Chinese leads to the plane being found, it could be because they knew a lot more than they were letting on.

See how this one plays out I guess.

[Admiral Halsey]

If tipping our technical hand was a concern then it seems to me it'd be pretty easy to fake a lucky find by the aircraft and ships we have in the area already.

Exactly. It'd be quite easy for even North Korea to do something like that.