[REL] sobers Real_Nav_Bouys_Charts SH5

[THE_MASK]

New version is sobers Real_Nav_Bouys_Charts SH5 V5
You must have NewUIs_TDC_7_5_0_TheDarkWraith_Test_Version_17 mod installed .

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=4319
When entering harbors keep the Red Bouys on your left . Remember Port is Red and Port has the same amount of letters as left . Port/left/red . Leaving harbours you will have green bouys on your left .
http://i59.tinypic.com/8zfdzr.jpg

[THE_MASK]

Any other harbors I need to add ? Ideas will be appreciated . Landmarks you have observed can be added etc !

[gap]

Well done Sober :up:

By the way of your mod, I wonder if oakdesign is still working on his own Major Floating Lights on Nav Map (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=206373) :hmm2:

[Sjizzle]

well done Sober :up:

[Trevally.]

Any other harbors I need to add ? Ideas will be appreciated . Landmarks you have observed can be added etc !

Addu Atoll http://www.avalanchepress.com/AdduAtoll.php

Your mission will require you to sneak into the atoll.
Only two channels are deep enough (decks awash)

The German submarine U-183 did torpedo the tanker British Loyalty in March 1944, making an impressive long-range shot from outside the atoll through a gap in the anti-torpedo nets.

http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/ships/3215.html


http://imageshack.com/a/img203/914/e4v5.jpg

[gap]

@ Trevally

(a bit offtopic, sorry sober :oops:)

I have finally discovered the meaning of the black/yellow buoy with the cones on top:

http://www.sailingissues.com/navcourse9.html
http://www.navipedia.pl/en/naviaidsiala.html

Look for "cardinal buoys" :03:

[tonschk]

Thank you :up: sober

[THE_MASK]

I will add Addu .
Less intelligence shown on the enemy map .
http://i59.tinypic.com/2m464qa.jpg

[Trevally.]

I will add Addu .
Less intelligence shown on the enemy map .


oooo nasty:D

[THE_MASK]

I wonder what intelligence they had on Scapa Flow before the raid apart from block ships :hmm2:
Also imo there shouldn't be any DDs or enemy vessels around Holm sound and no vessels east of Scapa during Total Germany campaign . It should be easy to get into .
You could place 2 block ships close together so a sub just squeezes thru . I could add shallow water either side . With Reworked Submarine Damage you wouldn't want to hit the block ships .
No more easy targets after Total Germany though .
Re Attu , less intelligence on my nav bouy map . Not the navmap .

[gap]

Found a website with free on-line nautical charts:

http://map.openseamap.org/

For Addu Atoll, it only shows a minor beacon on Bushy Islet (the small island at the northen entrance to the atoll, missing in SH5). No lateral buoys.

Here is my rework of Trevally/Sober's map, featuring batimetric lines from the website mentioned above, but with buoys as per sober's chart. The style is roughly based on real Kriegsmarine charts as seen on kartengruppe.it (http://www.kartengruppe.it/): :salute:

http://imageshack.com/a/img199/3295/ivmp.png

[raymond6751]

Way to go Sober, and also Gap for the chart website link.

Now we really are sailing in a real setting. I can hardly see the buoys through the murk caused by Sober's storm clouds. Ah there, through a haze of Sober's Lights is the channel.

Ahh, home again.

[Trevally.]

Found a website with free on-line nautical charts:

http://map.openseamap.org/

For Addu Atoll, it only shows a minor beacon on Bushy Islet (the small island at the northen entrance to the atoll, missing in SH5). No lateral buoys.

Here is my rework of Trevally/Sober's map, featuring batimetric lines from the website mentioned above, but with buoys as per sober's chart. The style is roughly based on real Kriegsmarine charts as seen on kartengruppe.it (http://www.kartengruppe.it/): :salute:



Looks great Gap:yeah:

[gap]

Looks great Gap:yeah:

Tanks Trevally, :)
I will see what I can do with the other port entrances.

On a side note: can you please have a look at the websites I have linked in my previous posts here, especially the last one? From there you can get many clues on how to make OH's buoys even more realistic. :up:

[gap]

Roadsted of Brest with OH's buoys:

http://imageshack.com/a/img36/1570/n1o4.png

...and this is thea real naval chart for the same area :doh:

http://imageshack.com/a/img854/1676/ieur.jpg

[Katze]

I've never checked in-game, but does the game follow the (currently named) Region A and Region B differences?

EG: Americas Red/Green reversed from Europe.

I know the regions were set out in 1980, but previous to that I assume they were reversed as well:
"Previously there had been 30 different buoyage systems, before IALA rationalised the system. In 1980 on a conference convened by IALA, they agreed to adopt the rules of a new combined system, which combined the previous two systems (A and B) into one system, with two regions (A and B)."

[THE_MASK]

http://i58.tinypic.com/2qtgx1t.jpg

[vdr1981]

Looking great!:up:

[gap]

Last chart for today: Heligoland

http://imageshack.com/a/img198/4394/zfk1.png

For this one I had to aproximate buoy positions, due to Heligoland's terrain (in game) having only a vague resemblance to the real thing.

[THE_MASK]

These redone maps are awesome .
http://i57.tinypic.com/102mnhw.jpg

[gap]

These redone maps are awesome .

Thank you sober. I am keeping a back-up copy of each chart with separated layers, so that it won't be hard updating them in case Trevally adds/removes/moves any buoy :up:

P.S: I see from you screenie that you have add some new charts...

[THE_MASK]

I need someone to take a covert picture from there observation scope , preferably using large scopes mod . I need the picture of Holm sound taken from the East before entering the sound . The picture needs to have the headlands in it and preferably bouys so that when raiding Scapa the raiding captain can ascertain if he is in the correct sound . This is top secret and should be performed sometime before September 29. Do not send me the photo until you have reached home port , keep it real .
http://i59.tinypic.com/2ibhl5s.jpg

[THE_MASK]

I added new charts but I think I need Trevally , but he is hard to catch :O: I need him to give me a list of appropriate ports .

[gap]

I need someone to take a covert picture from there observation scope...


Do not send me the photo until you have reached home port , keep it real .


:arrgh!: :DL


I added new charts but I think I need Trevally , but he is hard to catch :O: I need him to give me a list of appropriate ports .

Yep, he is... I know for sure that navigation aids in occupied France were switched on when an axis convoy/taskforce was known to be in zone (this probably only applies to major lights though). As for British beacons, I think they were switched off for the duration of the conflict. In my opinion having only lightless buoys around British coasts, and scarce intelligence about their position, would be more realistic. :)

[THE_MASK]

I dunno , i think they would have had a lot of intelligence gathering (assumption) . Spies , uboats , aerial photographs etc . But yes , if we could have non lit bouys . Houses in SH5 lit up at night annoys me . That would be just changing the DDs images though . I could do a mod for that if you think its appropriate .

[gap]

I dunno , i think they would have had a lot of intelligence gathering (assumption) . Spies , uboats , aerial photographs etc .

Yes, this is likely and leads to another idea: I could make some of the buoy charts of enemy harbors into B/W aerial photos with hand-written marks and notes. :03:

But yes , if we could have non lit bouys .

This is definitely possible. With few tweaks on the buoys already featured in OH, we can have both unlit buoys and (probably), should we need for them, buoys with customized light phases.


Houses in SH5 lit up at night annoys me . That would be just changing the DDs images though . I could do a mod for that if you think its appropriate .

Yes, this is also possible, but then even neutral countries would have unlit houses at night, and giving up this nice effect would be a shame. A possible woraround would be cloning some houses, leaving them with stock "night" textures, and placing them where appropriate (Spain, Portugal, Turkey, etc.).

[THE_MASK]

Yes, this is also possible, but then even neutral countries would have unlit houses at night, and giving up this nice effect would be a shame. A possible woraround would be cloning some houses, leaving them with stock "night" textures, and placing them where appropriate (Spain, Portugal, Turkey, etc.).Get with the program , we don't do nice .

[Trevally.]

I need Trevally , but he is hard to catch :O:

http://imageshack.com/a/img69/62/yrz.gif (https://imageshack.com/i/1xyrzg)

[Trevally.]

Thank you sober. I am keeping a back-up copy of each chart with separated layers, so that it won't be hard updating them in case Trevally adds/removes/moves any buoy :up:

P.S: I see from you screenie that you have add some new charts...

I added new charts but I think I need Trevally , but he is hard to catch :O: I need him to give me a list of appropriate ports .

I am working on the missions with Serge just now. 60 finished in the last three days:yeah:
Anyway - just let me know what it is you guys want changed. If we look at port by port making it match with your new maps and these spy pics (nice idea):up:

[Trevally.]

To make the spy pictures

This can be done in SM - just merge the layers you want to see. So join balloons.mis with harbours.mis etc and you can then save some travel time

[gap]

I am working on the missions with Serge just now. 60 finished in the last three days:yeah:
Anyway - just let me know what it is you guys want changed. If we look at port by port making it match with your new maps and these spy pics (nice idea):up:

In absence of nautical charts showing buoy types and position for WWII ports, it would be nice if you modified OH's buoyage systems according to current-day charts. The website (http://map.openseamap.org/) that I and sober are using, has anything we need to know: from fixed beacons, to buoys, to light vessels. The more you zoom in, the more information you get about them (i.e. their shape/color pattern, the color/phase of their light, the presence of bells, etc.). A legend of the symbols used more commonly, with a short explanation on the usage of the main buoy types, is found here (http://www.sailingissues.com/navcourse9.html).

Sure enough, the six buoys we have currently in game are not enough to represent such a variety of navigation aids, not to mention the fact that we completely miss lighthouses (as separate models), and light vessels. This shouldn't be a major probem though: all you need to do, is asking me (or Targor) and I (we :D) will be glad to help with the missing stuff. Should I delay sending you the new models, you can create proxy units pointing to buoy/ship models currently available and, at the right time, we will replace them with better suited items (with no further editing required on your part) :up:

Re. blacked out ports/cities: I think that, for the most part, Europe was obscured even before the beginning of WWII. For sure England was (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackout_(wartime)), though SH5 doesn't take this fact into account. The recent "black out lights" mod by sober correctly addresses the stock inaccuracy, and imo it should be merged into OH. Sober's mod forgoes some neutral countries though (Spain, Portugal and Turkey most notably), as well as USA and (probably) Latin America, where the black out practice wasn't enforced, or was poorly applied. As I said yesterday, we can clone the "urban" models used by those countries, and give them new textures with night lights visible again. I just need to know which city/harbor models need to be edited, and how hard would be for you (Trevally), replacing the stock models in campaign layer with "lit" copies of them (limited to the aforementioned countries indeed).

Last: spy pics. I have found some Luftwaffe aerial recognition photographs which can be used as template for our New-UI's compatible charts. Please find a few samples attached below: :03:

http://ww2today.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Clydebank-Luftwaffe-Plan-595x720.jpg (http://ww2today.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Clydebank-Luftwaffe-Plan.jpg)http://media.iwm.org.uk/iwm/mediaLib/7/media-7519/standard.jpg (http://media.iwm.org.uk/iwm/mediaLib/7/media-7519/large.jpg)
http://www.pillbox-study-group.org.uk/psgwordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/untitled-1024x824.png (http://www.pillbox-study-group.org.uk/psgwordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/untitled.png)
http://media.iwm.org.uk/iwm/mediaLib/9/media-9051/large.jpg?action=d&cat=photographs
http://data5.blog.de/media/325/2801325_31a221c484_l.jpeg

[THE_MASK]

Attn Mr gap .
I think you are over complicating things , but that's just my opinion . I think because the land in SH5 is quite featureless the light bouys should stay around friendly ports . I don't mind the current bouy sytem as we have now . Adding new bouys might make it even harder for new players . All I ever read about real nav these days is that people disable it because they think it is too hard LOL . Wouldn't it be better to use spy pictures from the actual game ? . Thos e new maps you make are awesome btw .

[gap]

Attn Mr gap .
I think you are over complicating things , but that's just my opinion . I think because the land in SH5 is quite featureless the light bouys should stay around friendly ports .

did I suggest to remove them? :doh:


I don't mind the current bouy sytem as we have now . Adding new bouys might make it even harder for new players .

So no new buoys bringing different topmarks, colors, shapes and lights? No new lighthouses? No ligth vessels? :wah:


All I ever read about real nav these days is that people disable it because they think it is too hard LOL .

This is a bad argument: you know that most newbies (and some old member) refuse to use real navigation on principle, no matter the difficulty involved...


Wouldn't it be better to use spy pictures from the actual game ? . Thos e new maps you make are awesome btw .

Wait, wait, are you suggesting to use normal screeshots instead of aerial photographs of enemy ports? Now I realize why you requested the spy mission in Scapa yesterday: I had totally missed your point :D

[Mikemike47]

Beautiful work sober. :up:

Go gap go. The man with the wealth of knowledge across lots of SH forums!!!

[GT182]

A small suggestion to make the charts simpler. You could use external elevated screenshots from SH5 as aerial photo reconnaissance for the harbors you want. It will give you the simulation's landmarks as they are. Then add what you want and that's it. Just make sure the photos are line up with actual North at the top.

Back when I was playing B-17 Flying Fortress "The Mighty 8th", that's how guys got the recon photos for all the in game targets. Worked great.

[GT182]

Another thought. How hard would it be to mod Scappa Flo so the WWI German fleet boats on the bottom would be obstacles. It would make it tougher to get the tonnage required, and a bit nasty to navigate the harbor.... for both sides.

[gap]

Beautiful work sober. :up:

Go gap go. The man with the wealth of knowledge across lots of SH forums!!!

Thank you Mike, you're too kind :)

A small suggestion to make the charts simpler. You could use external elevated screenshots from SH5 as aerial photo reconnaissance for the harbors you want. It will give you the simulation's landmarks as they are. Then add what you want and that's it. Just make sure the photos are line up with actual North at the top.

Yep, good idea. If someone playing the game at a decent resolution could provide some screenies, I could work on them. Talking about aerial reconnaissance photos of Allied harbors, lining them up to the North is not strictly needed though. By overlaying the charts by sober, I could add a compass reference as seen in the German intelligence photographs I have posted the day before yesterday :up:

[THE_MASK]

The Navy planned underwater harbor defenses against submarines, including magnetic loops to detect the passage of submarines over them and sono-bouys to track the movement of the sub by the sound from their propulsion systems.
Any idea if this is possible ?

[gap]

As far as I can see, the main problem is that whatever is able to detect and report enemy units, can on turn be detected. Sono buoys and magnetic loops would be reported by our watch crew as "enemy ships", unless we find a way to make them invisible (TDW might have some ides on this subject).
The second problem is: what mix of sensors should we use to simulate magnetic detection? :hmmm:

[TheDarkWraith]

As far as I can see, the main problem is that whatever is able to detect and report enemy units, can on turn be detected. Sono buoys and magnetic loops would be reported by our watch crew as "enemy ships", unless we find a way to make them invisible (TDW might have some ides on this subject).
The second problem is: what mix of sensors should we use to simulate magnetic detection? :hmmm:

Coastal defense looks like a perfect candidate. Give it a hydrophone. I've noticed that the game does NOT render any detection circles with the coastal defenses thus you won't be able to tell when you're spotted (by any of it's sensors)

[gap]

Coastal defense looks like a perfect candidate. Give it a hydrophone. I've noticed that the game does NOT render any detection circles with the coastal defenses thus you won't be able to tell when you're spotted (by any of it's sensors)

Good! For those among us who are playing on high realism settings, detection circles are not a problem anyway. Coastal defenses would be reported by the watchcrew, but this is not a big issue if we set their sensor's range long enough for them to detect us before we spot them. Moreover, we could create several coastal defense models, some of them equipped with long range sensor and some not, so we would never be sure what kind of defenses we are facing (sonobuoys, magnetic loops or simple artillery).

The one little problem with hydrophone sensors, is that we wouldn't be detected if we sneaked in ports on silent running, which is obvioulsy not the best, if we want to simulate magnetic loops. Active sonar could be another good candidate, especially for sono buoys, but also for magnetic loops, if only we could avoid the ping sound in the latter case. By the way: have you checked that hydrophone and sonar sensors can do their job even when fitted on land units (MaxSensorHeight > 0)?

[vdr1981]

Sober, have you noticed that bouys charts overwrites whole bunch of Sjizzle charts? Are we dealing with some kind of limited number of ingame charts that can be shown?:hmmm:

[THE_MASK]

Sober, have you noticed that bouys charts overwrites whole bunch of Sjizzle charts? Are we dealing with some kind of limited number of ingame charts that can be shown?:hmmm:I just checked ingame . What charts ? Use the mouse wheel to scroll down and view the other categories/charts .

[Sjizzle]

charts limit's is 50 and yup when u enable this one some charts of my mods doesn't show ...

[THE_MASK]

charts limit's is 50 and yup when u enable this one some charts of my mods doesn't show ...I see .

[vdr1981]

charts limit's is 50 and yup when u enable this one some charts of my mods doesn't show ...

Hm, how many charts we have shown in game with your charts mod (all 4 packs)?

[THE_MASK]

Hm, how many charts we have shown in game with your charts mod (all 4 packs)?I deleted my charts mod from my mod list . It is there to download if anyone wants to use it .

[vdr1981]

I deleted my charts mod from my mod list . It is there to download if anyone wants to use it .

Maybe you should try to split your mod in parts, like Sjizzle did?:yep:

[Sjizzle]

Maybe you should try to split your mod in parts, like Sjizzle did?:yep:


or i can split more my chart's mod... if sober wish that to split my charts mod in more parts let me know and i will do it

[gap]

Maybe you should try to split your mod in parts, like Sjizzle did?:yep:

or i can split more my chart's mod... if sober wish that to split my charts mod in more parts let me know and i will do it

Most of the charts by sober are only useful within some campaigns. Imo it would be better splitting them by campaign and/or geographical location. :yep:

[THE_MASK]

New version is sobers Real_Nav_Bouys_Charts SH5 V5
You must have NewUIs_TDC_7_5_0_TheDarkWraith_Test_Version_17 mod installed .