sh5 or sh3

[Rickster1]

I love the graphics (with mods) in sh5 but love sh3 (nygm and mods) gameplay better, what a dilema

[Sailor Steve]

Not at all. Both are cheap, both have different items to recommend them. Get both, play whichever one suits your fancy at the moment. :sunny:

[Targor Avelany]

Not at all. Both are cheap, both have different items to recommend them. Get both, play whichever one suits your fancy at the moment. :sunny:
:sign_yeah:

What Steve said.

[Rickster1]

yes got both and keep switching cannot make my mind up which one to stay with

[gap]

I love the graphics (with mods) in sh5 but love sh3 (nygm and mods) gameplay better, what a dilema

What do you like of SHIII + NYGM over SH5?

Not a polemic question. I am just curious to know what makes the modded SHIII a better game, and if the same features can be ported to SH5 :up:

[Aktungbby]

yes got both and keep switching cannot make my mind up which one to stay with

Precisely! As Sailor Steve says, the object is to be amused; It ain't a lifestyle. Get SHIV with Monsun ( I still play SHII) and have a field day! All have their +'s and -'s ...

[Sailor Steve]

What do you like of SHIII + NYGM over SH5?

Not a polemic question. I am just curious to know what makes the modded SHIII a better game, and if the same features can be ported to SH5 :up:
I can't speak for anyone else, but I play SH3 with GWX and SH3 Commander. What makes the difference for me is the availability of the Type II and Type IX. That, plus the many different types of merchants available, and my PC won't even run the Merchant Fleet Mod! Not to mention the working canal lock gates. I won't praise Commander's 'Ship Names' function because I understand that SH5 does allow for ship names. I think of all the things I could do with that if I only had a PC that would allow me to work with it.

I prefer SH4's crew management, especially the 'Battle Stations' function. I also prefer SH4's 'Request New Orders' radio function, except for the part where responses are instant, rather than having to wait for the new instructions. SH4 also has a fully functioning grid map, with both Latitude/Logitude and KM Grids working properly.

But SH5 looks real good. No, that's not meant to be a backhanded complement/insult. It really does look very, very good.

[gap]

Thank you for your prompt reply, Steve. It deserves detailed answers, point by point :up:

What makes the difference for me is the availability of the Type II and Type IX.

I agree: this is one of the worst SH5 limitations. What prevents us from adding the missing playable subs? These are imho the main obstacles:

- limited knowledge about the granny format in general: TDW and privateer have done miracles on this subject; we are now able to edit bones, materials, texture, meshes, etc., and we can even create new 3d objects and units. In spite of this, GR2 Editor is still not able to add new meshes and, due to the many unknowns, it is prone to corrupting files at times. This means that at this stage only the creation of relatively simple units is realistically practicable.

- lack of knowledge about granny animations: assuming that we were patient enough to model and import in game a full-fledged u-boat (both exterior and interior), we shoul still deal with track groups and 'flexible bones' for crew to move around the sub, to man her guns, etc. Unfortunately only TDW, privateer and (maybe) a few others, might have a vague idea of what is needed for getting the said stuff to work.

- hardcoding the new playable units: we should make the game to 'see' the new units. Again, only TDW has the likely skills to do it.

Summing up, my verdict is: new playable units are not impossible in SH5, but just not yet possible.


That, plus the many different types of merchants available, and my PC won't even run the Merchant Fleet Mod!

With the needed time, we can add in game all the AI ships we want. Even considering the limitations I have listed in the previous point, the conversion of dat units to GR2 ones is surely possible already. If this is not enough, with some simple tweaks, dat units can be imported in game the straight way. Except for some trascurable flaws, ships imported this way are fully functional.

All in all, I think the one reason for SH5 not having as many ships as SHIII and IV, is our laziness and the need to ask for permission to use pre-existing models. Nothing more than this (shame on us!) :D


Not to mention the working canal lock gates.

I should have a look into GWX for this feature. How is the gate animation triggered? :hmm2:


I won't praise Commander's 'Ship Names' function because I understand that SH5 does allow for ship names.

Yes, cool feature, though I never fully understood where we should read those names from. Is there a New UI's option for it? :doh:


I prefer SH4's crew management, especially the 'Battle Stations' function.

I can't really answer on this, but I guess that porting SHIV's crew management to SH5 would require a lot of work on hardcoded functions, and a good knowledge of programming and python scripting, which I am missing.


I also prefer SH4's 'Request New Orders' radio function, except for the part where responses are instant, rather than having to wait for the new instructions.

I am not sure that OH hasn't something similar (look at how it handles wolfpack operations and refittings at sea), and some of TDW's patches (one for all, the 'Contact reports wolfpack patch') come close to the feature you are describing. :yep:


SH4 also has a fully functioning grid map, with both Latitude/Logitude and KM Grids working properly.

A fairly accurate marine Marinequadratkarte (not as accurate as the SHIV one though) was added in game by Illyustrator (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1726889#post1726889). After its release, Trevally has updated OH's objectives so that quadrant coordinates instead of lat/long coordinates are given as patrol areas. What still needs to be done (and probably won't, at least in the near future), is game-generated to contact reports by BdU to give contact positions as quadrants.


But SH5 looks real good. No, that's not meant to be a backhanded complement/insult. It really does look very, very good.

That is sure! :salute:

[Madox58]

I should have a look into GWX for this feature. How is the gate animation triggered? :hmm2:

It's actually work done for LSH. BBW did a mod for GWX with permissions.
:yep:

[gap]

It's actually work done for LSH. BBW did a mod for GWX with permissions.
:yep:

Thanks privateer, who did the original gates? Do you know how they work? Creating keyframed anymations is no a secret, but getting them to play/stop at the right moment is another matter... :hmmm:

[Madox58]

Nautilus42 I think?
Here's BBW's version for GWX
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1295

I'm thinking it's just a Watchman controller if I remember right.
:hmmm:

[gap]

Nautilus42 I think?
Here's BBW's version for GWX
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1295

I'm thinking it's just a Watchman controller if I remember right.
:hmmm:

Never met that controller before.

Thank you for the link by the way, I will have a look into the mod :up:

[Madox58]

Watchman just does a rotation back and forth.
The Gates are set to open and close on the settings of Watchman.
You need to time your passage to match the gates.

[gap]

Watchman just does a rotation back and forth.
The Gates are set to open and close on the settings of Watchman.
You need to time your passage to match the gates.

So the gates are opening/closing at fixed times? That would be easy to achieve even with a normal RotationKeyFrames controller :hmmm:

[Madox58]

Ya. Watchman controllers were used on some AI Units for Watch Crews and radar/antenna movements.

I did discuss with other GWX Devs, doing a Fake Gun as a type of control for some actions.
:03:

The Air Raid Siren in GWX uses a fake gun and fake shell to get the effect.
It was only created as a quick idea based off of Beta testers comments saying how cool it would be if........

That's the stuff that drives me. How cool would it be if..........
:D

[gap]

Ya. Watchman controllers were used on some AI Units for Watch Crews and radar/antenna movements.

Yes, but I still don't get what was the advantage of using it rather than rotation keyframes, in the discussed case. Are watchman animations triggered by some type of event?


I did discuss with other GWX Devs, doing a Fake Gun as a type of control for some actions.
:03:

The Air Raid Siren in GWX uses a fake gun and fake shell to get the effect.

Yep that cannon controller was a real goldmine as it allowed for many 'hetodorox' appliactions of it. Even Fx Update makes a large use of it. In the past, I have been studying silently the lesson that could be learned from many SHIII mods :03:


It was only created as a quick idea based off of Beta testers comments saying how cool it would be if........

That's the stuff that drives me. How cool would it be if..........
:D

How cool would be if SH5 coastal guns worked properly :lol:

[Sailor Steve]

Summing up, my verdict is: new playable units are not impossible in SH5, but just not yet possible.
I've never had anything against SH5. I still think it has the potential to outstrip everything. Until it actually does, though, I'll be keeping my current likes.

With the needed time, we can add in game all the AI ships we want.
That's good to hear. I think variety in what we see is one of the things that makes the biggest difference.

I should have a look into GWX for this feature. How is the gate animation triggered? :hmm2:
If you mean the internal workings of the game mechanism, I have no idea. Within the game as played they are on a simple timer. It's not realistic, but it's the best they could do with what they had at the time.

Yes, cool feature, though I never fully understood where we should read those names from. Is there a New UI's option for it? :doh:
Only some of the names are there. In SH3 I devoted several years to researching names to fit the categories made available by Commander. I wanted to do the same for SH4, as that game is more sophisticated than its predecessor, but no one ever made an equivalent to Commander for SH4. Dan told me that SH5 has a functioning Ship Naming routine already. If I ever get a computer that will run it I plan to explore that, as I already have cataloged many thousands of historic names, organized by ship class and ready to go. Of course I can only give proper names to classes that exist in the game.

I can't really answer on this, but I guess that porting SHIV's crew management to SH5 would require a lot of work on hardcoded functions, and a good knowledge of programming and python scripting, which I am missing.
I, on the other hand, know absolutely nothing about that sort of thing. :dead:


I am not sure that OH hasn't something similar (look at how it handles wolfpack operations and refittings at sea), and some of TDW's patches (one for all, the 'Contact reports wolfpack patch') come close to the feature you are describing. :yep:
That is also good to hear. I've heard about the wolfpacks and I've heard about TDW's manual navigation. I would love to see those things someday.

It's actually work done for LSH. BBW did a mod for GWX with permissions.
:yep:
Very true. I should have mentioned that myself. Credit where credit's due. :oops:

[Madox58]

Yes, but I still don't get what was the advantage of using it rather than rotation keyframes, in the discussed case. Are watchman animations triggered by some type of event?
The advantage was it's a built in controller for simple movements.
Doing keyframes uses much more resources and they do take awhile to program them right.



How cool would be if SH5 coastal guns worked properly :lol:
You ain't fixed those yet?
:haha:

[gap]

The advantage was it's a built in controller for simple movements.
Doing keyframes uses much more resources and they do take awhile to program them right.

Do you think so? I am not talking about the MeshAnimationData controller, which requires a separate mesh for each frame. The controller I am talking about is the one used for animating aircraft propellers, and it can be applied on simple meshes :hmm2:


You ain't fixed those yet?
:haha:

Nope. Unfortunately everything looks okay in guns' files. The likely cause of them not working, and being ignored by enemy units, is that SH5 seems to miss the proper AI scripts for them :-?

[Madox58]

Props as on aircraft go one way only in a loop.
Watchman can be controlled with a left to right, right to left time scale.
Very handy.

The props animations are simple keyframes animations.
Problem with those? No way to control start or stop. They loop.