Realistic Enemy AI?

[Eesocks]

Hi, recently returned to SH4 after a long break(almost 5 years)and was wondering if there are any mods to make the enemy AI more realistic. I.ve tried the latest TMO and RFB and both seem to be to have flawed Enemy AI.
For example in Jan 43 after attacking a convoy I went to 400ft passing a thermal layer at 150ft and I still got pinged!-and then sunk! This was using TMO.
On another occasion, this time with RFB, I spent an hour with 3 destroyers running rings around me while I was at depths between 80' and periscope depth and took no damage at all. Eventually after sinking 2 of them and crippling the 3rd I headed for the open sea(I was on photo recon in Manilla bay)picking up 2 more escorts on the way. It wasn't until I dived to around 250'ft that the depth charging started. This was also in Jan 43.
Prior to June 43 when, I think, it was congressman Andrew May who made it public knowledge that US subs could dive deeper than people thought the Japanese would only set their depth charges to around 100ft after this they would mostly set them no deeper than 250ft.
Also all the best boats and crews were attached to the surface fleet.
To sum up on the 1st occasion there is no way I would have been sunk. On the 2nd occasion there's no way I would have escaped!

I'm sorry if this sounds like a rant, it's not really I just want to play as realistic as possible.

[merc4ulfate]

Well if you want realism then I think those mods are just fine. Sometimes the crews aboard the AI's are just good. Sometimes you lost out getting a very good sonar tech on a destroyer. Besides that you do not know how good a thermal layer is or how well it is going to hide you. It is all a guessing game and forces you to develop better evasion tactics.

I used to think things were too easy. It was a piece of cake hiding from Allied shipping escorts until those son of a b*tches develop Hedgehogs and rockets on their ASW aircraft. It forced me to get much better at evasion and listening to my radar operator to dive in aircraft avoidance.

By the way try not to turn your stern to their bows if possible ... your noisier that way ...

I say ... get better at escape and evasion and you and your crew will have a better chance of survival.

[Bubblehead1980]

Hi, recently returned to SH4 after a long break(almost 5 years)and was wondering if there are any mods to make the enemy AI more realistic. I.ve tried the latest TMO and RFB and both seem to be to have flawed Enemy AI.
For example in Jan 43 after attacking a convoy I went to 400ft passing a thermal layer at 150ft and I still got pinged!-and then sunk! This was using TMO.
On another occasion, this time with RFB, I spent an hour with 3 destroyers running rings around me while I was at depths between 80' and periscope depth and took no damage at all. Eventually after sinking 2 of them and crippling the 3rd I headed for the open sea(I was on photo recon in Manilla bay)picking up 2 more escorts on the way. It wasn't until I dived to around 250'ft that the depth charging started. This was also in Jan 43.
Prior to June 43 when, I think, it was congressman Andrew May who made it public knowledge that US subs could dive deeper than people thought the Japanese would only set their depth charges to around 100ft after this they would mostly set them no deeper than 250ft.
Also all the best boats and crews were attached to the surface fleet.
To sum up on the 1st occasion there is no way I would have been sunk. On the 2nd occasion there's no way I would have escaped!

I'm sorry if this sounds like a rant, it's not really I just want to play as realistic as possible.


Well I think you miss the point of TMO.Stock AI and AI in many other mods is weak.TMO is meant to be tougher to make the player operate in a more realistic manner, thus adding a challenge.Tough AI or not, a thermal layer was not in real life nor is it in TMO a magic blanket.Yes, it causes the sonar signal to be diminished so they cant such a great fix on you but does not hide you magically, especially if they already had a good fix on you before you made it below the thermal layer.TMO's sensors esp in later war enable the sonar beam to go down to 800 feet or so I believe, so you never really get under the beam even in the deepest diving sub. There many other variables as well such as seas state and wind. Rougher seas, more difficult it is for them to get a good fix on you.Deeper does not always mean you will get away.January 1943 the AI in TMO is still pretty easy, guessing you don't have a lot of patrols in with TMO yet, ran into an unusually skilled escort in ideal sonar conditions, or he got lucky with the charges.Perhaps a combo of both.

That is one thing I sought to correct with my depth charge mod for TMO and RSRD.Unfortunately, in SH 4 they have depth charges set unrealistically and cant alter the main thing, which is depth which they will explode. Real life, early war IJN charges could only be set to explode at 50, 100, 200 feet and had a relatively small amount of explosives. Since most early war boats test depth was 250 feet, where they went when evading(if not in shallow waters) and the small amount of explosives, most took some damage but never or rarely the killing blows.Then came the idiot congressman may who revealed japanese charges were not set deep enough nor had enough punch.Then they developed the charges that had large amount of explosives and could be set to detonate at 50, 100, 200, 300, 400, or 500 feet, these charges were sub killers.

Unfortunately, the devs of SH 4 did not make depth charges explode this way, they explode where the AI sets them.The depth precision setting also effects.Basically, if sub is at 100 feet, DD drops 4 charges, depth precision is set to 5 meters(stock), charges will explode at 100 feet and within 5 meters above or below 100 feet.TM0 depth precision is by default set to 7 meters. Now, problem with this is while realistic in sense japanese dropped a pattern on a sub they thought was at 300 feet, they would set some for 300, some for 400, some for 200, that way the sub was bracketed/Problem in game is you can be at 350 feet, they might some charges for 350 feet and some for 340 feet. TMO takes you out with killing blows instead of residual damage building up like in real life.

My depth charge mod makes the early war depth charges have less of a punch and limits their depth precision.The later war charges carry a bigger punch and more depth precision but it stops for the killing blows that cause instant depth unless one gets lucky and lands right on the sub.I am further tweaking the mod and new version will be out.Check out download section.


RFB is a great mod but it runs stock AI and even if use it with RSRD as it was meant to be(since RFB handles boat only, not the campaign and stock campaign if awful) you may see some AI improved but it still lacks. Much hard work has been put in but can only do so much within limitations of the game.

Did you try RSRD with TMO? RSRD does adjust TMO's AI some, so it wont always be as difficult but it is still pretty toug

[TorpX]

Hi, recently returned to SH4 after a long break(almost 5 years)and was wondering if there are any mods to make the enemy AI more realistic. I.ve tried the latest TMO and RFB and both seem to be to have flawed Enemy AI.

You have to keep in mind that many things in the game are hard-coded, and nobody presently working on SH4 has the ability to change them. I also become frustrated by the AI (and other) limitations of the game. But consider, all the mega mods provide us a much, much better game than the stock article. Within the limits of the accessible game files, many aspects have been polished and improved.

[Eesocks]

I understand what you are all saying but having looked at the crew ratings in TMO I noticed they are all rated as 3. I would expect, at least in the early war, for there to be some less able crews around.
I think everyone has their own idea of realism so when I have time I'll change some of them in the early war to a lower level and a bit more random to try and simulate the learning curve the escorts would have gone through.
On the plus side after tracking a Troop convoy on radar for 4 hrs (real time) I fired 6 torps (just to make sure) at a 18k liner doing 18 knts and 2600 range with a slight spread and hit with all 6, so a least I'm shooting straight! This was with 93% realism.

[Dread Knot]

I understand what you are all saying but having looked at the crew ratings in TMO I noticed they are all rated as 3. I would expect, at least in the early war, for there to be some less able crews around.
I think everyone has their own idea of realism so when I have time I'll change some of them in the early war to a lower level and a bit more random to try and simulate the learning curve the escorts would have gone through.
.

In TMO the ASW capabilities of Japanese escorts were pumped up to frankly unrealistic levels. They can find you and depth charge you with pinpoint accuracy without active sonar pinging sometimes. They are extremely aggressive. If you run into an elite crew on a Japanese escort you are dead unless you kill him. The reasoning behind it is that the unrealistic AI behavior results in more cautious player behavior. You are operating in fear for your life. Therefore you do not take stupid chances. You cannot just duck below the thermal layer, turn on the silent running and call it a day. Makes the sim more of a challenge. It probably does do a good job of simulating the overwrought caution that some US skippers practiced in the early months of the war.

In the actual event, Japanese ASW was mediocre to poor to downright non-existent in some cases through the real war. There is speculation that some veteran US skippers like Sam Dealy may have lost their lives and crew because they had become careless, and too contemptuous of lackluster Japanese ASW and methods.

[Armistead]

I understand what you are all saying but having looked at the crew ratings in TMO I noticed they are all rated as 3. I would expect, at least in the early war, for there to be some less able crews around.
I think everyone has their own idea of realism so when I have time I'll change some of them in the early war to a lower level and a bit more random to try and simulate the learning curve the escorts would have gone through.
On the plus side after tracking a Troop convoy on radar for 4 hrs (real time) I fired 6 torps (just to make sure) at a 18k liner doing 18 knts and 2600 range with a slight spread and hit with all 6, so a least I'm shooting straight! This was with 93% realism.

TMO may seem a lil tough, but once you learn the game, how to attack and evade, you'll find TMO fairly easy. Like most games, once you learn the AI, it's easier to defeat.

[Capt. Morgan]

...having looked at the crew ratings in TMO I noticed they are all rated as 3. I would expect, at least in the early war, for there to be some less able crews around....

You have to remember that "early war" for the I.J.N. was 1937. By 1941 they were a highly seasoned force.

[Bubblehead1980]

I understand what you are all saying but having looked at the crew ratings in TMO I noticed they are all rated as 3. I would expect, at least in the early war, for there to be some less able crews around.
I think everyone has their own idea of realism so when I have time I'll change some of them in the early war to a lower level and a bit more random to try and simulate the learning curve the escorts would have gone through.
On the plus side after tracking a Troop convoy on radar for 4 hrs (real time) I fired 6 torps (just to make sure) at a 18k liner doing 18 knts and 2600 range with a slight spread and hit with all 6, so a least I'm shooting straight! This was with 93% realism.


Add on Run Silent Run Deep mod with TMO.Escorts are easier in early war(their early war ASW was pitiful) and improves over time.RSRD is a campaign mod, adds historical traffic, among many things.Keeps the toughness of TMO escorts but does mellow them out a little.Still have to watch yourself esp from late 1943 on but definitely gives most realistic sim.They are not all super escorts but still have to play smart.Also, try the SH 4 AI fix from the downloads section.This stops them from always using active sonar.They only go active when the detect you, instead of always being active(even if you dont hear the ping). This helps and adds more realism yet they are tough, esp once you are detected.

Lowering their skill to competent(2) will affect your gameplay, they will be a bit too easy.

[Dread Knot]

You have to remember that "early war" for the I.J.N. was 1937. By 1941 they were a highly seasoned force.

Indeed, the Japanese were highly seasoned. They had practiced hard for years for a decisive battle with the US somewhere in the Central Pacific. Some of the their carrier pilots were already aces in the war in China, and they had gained valuable experience in shore bombardment and naval landings in the same conflict.

But ASW was always a blind spot with them. Escort management within the Imperial Navy was almost an incidental activity in prewar days. Those few officers charged with these matters handled it on a part time or indirect basis. There was no central agency for realistic and comprehensive maritime planning. Just a few months before Pearl Harbor, the only Japanese institution still conducting ASW instruction was the Navy Torpedo School, with a heavy emphasis on attacking with torpedoes, not defending against them. Even there, anti submarine research was the part time domain of one officer.

Like the US naval submariners, the Japanese ASW forces started the war pretty green.

[Admiral Halsey]

Just a few months before Pearl Harbor, the only Japanese institution still conducting ASW instruction was the Navy Torpedo School, with a heavy emphasis on attacking with torpedoes, not defending against them. Even there.


They thought they could attack a sub that would almost certainly be underwater with torpedoes? If they had the technology of today sure but in the 40's?

[Dread Knot]

They thought they could attack a sub that would almost certainly be underwater with torpedoes? If they had the technology of today sure but in the 40's?


I'm not speaking of DD torpedoes versus submarines. The IJN Torpedo school primarily taught the surface fleet cadets how to use torpedoes in battle against other surface warships. All Japanese destroyers, light cruisers and heavy cruisers were pretty liberally supplied with torpedoes. As part that instruction the torpedo school taught traditional ASW techniques as well ( Hydrophones, sonar, depth charges drills etc,)

Not long after hostilities commenced, the Torpedo School relinquished supervision over ASW matters to the Navy Mine School, an institution younger and less prestigious than the gunnery and torpedo schools. ASW instruction seems to have been the red-headed stepchild no one in the IJN wanted.

[Eesocks]

Over the last few weeks I've been using various combo's of mods. And having decided which ones to go for I started a new career out of Manilla in Dec 41'.
4 days into the patrol I got a conact, it was a lone merchant which I tracked for nearly 2 hrs to get in good position for an attack.
Weather was no wind or rain and light fog and there was no moon, I positioned my sub 2000 yards off it's track stopped rigged for silent at 3ft below periscope depth and waited. When the sonar operator announced it was at a bearing of 40degrees I raised the attack periscope to take a look and could just make out a vague shadow at that moment it turned on it's searchlights, speeded up and changed course, it knew I was there! how?.
I don't mind a challenge but that was ridiculous!

Definately time to dumb down the AI at least on the merchants

I was using TMO 2.5 OTC and some enviromental mods

[Dread Knot]

I was using TMO 2.5 OTC and some enviromental mods

Sounds like the RFB mod would be more your speed. In TMO even the lowly merchants have their visual sensor numbers enhanced.

I believe there is a version of TMO that has the AI reduced a bit.

[Bilge_Rat]

TMO and RFB are both pretty much the best in terms of tweaking the AI in SH4. It is really a matter of taste.

The TMO AI is more challenging, but not unrealistically so. I use TMO 2.5 and have managed to get within 1500 yards of IJN DDs on the surface at night without being spotted when stopped, although I have been spotted by IJN warships at 8,000 yds at night when moving at flank speed.

Underwater, if the AI detects you or knows where you are, it can be deadly. I have been nailed by DCs at 400 feet as well, although that was only once. Usually, I manage to stay undetected and escape.

I just went through an attack by two IJN ships in july 43 around Truk. I was at 350 feet the whole time, silent running. They never detected me even though they went right over me a few times and dropped all their DCs far away.

The Merchant AI is a mixed bag. I use RSRDC so I don't encounter them that often. I have tracked them on the surface at night getting as close as 3,000 yds without being spotted. On my current patrol, I recently sank a 2,000 tonner during the day submerged. As I recall, the range was down to 1,500-2,000 yds, again without being spotted. However, I have been spotted submerged at night at around 2,000 yds.

One good tip is to limit periscope exposure to the strict minimum, just quick peeks to confirm your firing solution. I also dont use the "periscope depth" setting but choose a depth around 5 feet deeper so the scope is just breaking the surface. That is a trick I picked up from SH5 and SHO where you can choose how far to extend the scope and it impacts how far your scope can be spotted. I don't know if it is modeled in SH4, but it is safer to assume it is.

[Bubblehead1980]

TMO with RSRD is the best route the way I see it.Especially with various modifications for TMO, can tweak it just right.I have a couple mods I put together for TMO that change things, eliminates the unrealistic "death blows" except in rare circumstances and tweaks depth charges a bit more, if can get them to upload.stay tuned.

[donna52522]

Over the last few weeks I've been using various combo's of mods. And having decided which ones to go for I started a new career out of Manilla in Dec 41'.
4 days into the patrol I got a conact, it was a lone merchant which I tracked for nearly 2 hrs to get in good position for an attack.
Weather was no wind or rain and light fog and there was no moon, I positioned my sub 2000 yards off it's track stopped rigged for silent at 3ft below periscope depth and waited. When the sonar operator announced it was at a bearing of 40degrees I raised the attack periscope to take a look and could just make out a vague shadow at that moment it turned on it's searchlights, speeded up and changed course, it knew I was there! how?.
I don't mind a challenge but that was ridiculous!

Definately time to dumb down the AI at least on the merchants

I was using TMO 2.5 OTC and some enviromental mods


If it's TMO 2.5 with Easier AI that you are looking for, try the mod in the link below.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=3542

[TorpX]

... When the sonar operator announced it was at a bearing of 40degrees I raised the attack periscope to take a look and could just make out a vague shadow at that moment it turned on it's searchlights, speeded up and changed course, it knew I was there! how?.
I don't mind a challenge but that was ridiculous!

Definately time to dumb down the AI at least on the merchants

I was using TMO 2.5 OTC and some enviromental mods
I can understand why you are unhappy. If this sort of thing is happening, it is patently unrealistic.

I will suggest you consider another course of action:

1. dump the enviromental mods; one might be screwing up TMO.

2. dump everything and use RFB (with or without the corresponding version of RSRDC).



However, I have been spotted submerged at night at around 2,000 yds.

You said TMO is not unrealistically challanging, but isn't spotting a periscope at night at 2,000 yds. unrealistic?

[merc4ulfate]

"Therefore you do not take stupid chances" from an above post.

Fortune Favors the Bold.

I'll take a stupid chances everyday over an adversary who expects school taught tactics. Doing what is not expected will get you another days fight and most likely a sinking to boot. Making runs flank speed let em chase you and send them to the bottom with one down the throat.

Drop down to 350 feet and crawl within 800 yards go all stop and rise to periscope depth and blast them out of the water with such little time that they can not even move out of the way.

Out run a convoy and sit 160 meters down waiting for the lead escort to pass then rise and fire at your closest target from bow and stern tube and head off to the rear of the convoy flank speed and back to 160 meters.

You have to say to yourself every day ... I am already dead. Once you get that in your head chances are your boldness and brash tactics will baffle them.

Ever went all back full while being depth charged? Why not? That simple maneuver has gotten me out of so many jams. They know your heading, they hear your engines, they expect you to dive deep while moving straight a head.

What they do not expect is for you to go all back full, left full rudder to line up a shot on them after they pass you missing with every depth charge they have dropped. This has me sinking either them or giving my self a chance to then drop down while they are making their turn back towards me. It has sure saved my hide on hedgehog attacks many times.

[Bilge_Rat]

You said TMO is not unrealistically challanging, but isn't spotting a periscope at night at 2,000 yds. unrealistic?


probably, but on the other hand I managed to get within 1500 yds of a IJN TF, 1 CL, 2 DD on the surface at night before being spotted.

It is more than just distance, there are many factors at work, including the skill level of the AI. I had compared the RFB and TMO AI files sometimes back. TMO is not across the board harder, just tweaked differently. As I recall, In TMO, you will generally be spotted quicker then in RFB in daytime, nice weather, no wind/waves. OTOH, you will generally be spotted quicker in RFB then in TMO in choppy/windy/stormy weather.

Again the nice thing about SH4 is that there are many variations of AI to suit every player's personal style. I personally like the TMO 2.5 AI because it is the most challenging to play against. :arrgh!:

[Eesocks]

As it turned out I'm thankful for that merchant, if it wasn't for the 6hrs(game time) chasing it I wouldn't have sunk my 1st Battleship a few hrs later, I would have been miles away!

I fired 4 torps from my stern tubes from 3000 yds before diving deep to 400 ft. One escort was within 2500 yds when I fired but never realised I was even there. And none of the escorts detected me even though it was nearly 3 hrs before they went away. I surfaced after four hrs to find the Kongo just sitting there, it took a further 7 torpedoes to sink it, 3 impacts 1 miss and seven duds in total. This took placed at night with a flat sea and no fog.

Point being I still don't uderstand how the Merchant detected me, when none of the escorts, who are trained for, it did not.

[TorpX]

Point being I still don't uderstand how the Merchant detected me, when none of the escorts, who are trained for, it did not.
I'm thinking he did not. Ships/convoys will change course sometimes.

I remember in SHCE, ships would turn away when they were spooked. In this game they tend to do a constant helming thing (but not always, it seems), steering to one side, then another.

When the sonar operator announced it was at a bearing of 40degrees I raised the attack periscope to take a look and could just make out a vague shadow at that moment it turned on it's searchlights, speeded up and changed course, it knew I was there! how?.
I don't mind a challenge but that was ridiculous!


I'm wondering about the searchlights. Are searchlight equipped merchants standard in TMO? Are you sure it was a merchant? :06:

[Eesocks]

I'm thinking he did not. Ships/convoys will change course sometimes.


Since returnig to the game I seen several merchants that haven't detected me change curse. Sometimes by just a few degrees while rounding a headland, others by around 90 degrees, but this one started weaving from side to side after speeding up staying on the same general heading.


Are searchlight equipped merchants standard in TMO? Are you sure it was a merchant?


There are quite a few merchants with searchlights now, could be in TMO,not sure though. And I'm reasonably sure it was a mechant,my sonar man said it was,and from the silhouette it looked a quite large ship,something like a Nagara Maru, I can''t be 100% sure though.

[TorpX]

Since returnig to the game I seen several merchants that haven't detected me change curse. Sometimes by just a few degrees while rounding a headland, others by around 90 degrees, but this one started weaving from side to side after speeding up staying on the same general heading.


Yeah, that's generally what they do. Usually, this will slow them down though.

About the searchlights; it seems odd to me to have merchants using them as it would make themselves very conspicous, and increase the chance they would be torpedoed.



Posts like yours, about TMO is part of the reason I play RFB. The enemy doesn't have super abilities. I've left my scope up with merchants in sight 4,000 yds away, and they can't see it. I'll admit, they will still see torpedoes coming, 20 to 40 sec. before impact (even at night), but that seems to be a hard-coded thing, and there doesn't seem to be much that can be done about it.

[Armistead]

Since returnig to the game I seen several merchants that haven't detected me change curse. Sometimes by just a few degrees while rounding a headland, others by around 90 degrees, but this one started weaving from side to side after speeding up staying on the same general heading.



There are quite a few merchants with searchlights now, could be in TMO,not sure though. And I'm reasonably sure it was a mechant,my sonar man said it was,and from the silhouette it looked a quite large ship,something like a Nagara Maru, I can''t be 100% sure though.


I made a no searchlight mod for Bubble, removes searchlight from merchants and large capital ships. He would probably send it to you. I never quite finished my night surface env, just tweak nights and AI so you can better pull off night attacks. Bubble uses it and likes it ok, but hopefully I can finish it. Think I included night env and no searchlights in one mod. I think I have it if you want to try it..

[merc4ulfate]

For those wanting to know what it is like at sea in real life. It is dark. Saying that once your eyes adjust you see much more than you think you could otherwise. Part of my duty at sea while I was in the Navy was forward and aft look out. I didn't like missing sleep but I did love being alone in the dark with nothing around but open water.

On a moon lit night you can see for miles. If you have clear skies you can see the bright glow of the center of the galaxy we live in with the naked eye. A submarine would have been easily spotted by a look out but only if certain conditions were right. Of course is there a moon? In the field of view does the boat pass in front of the moon reflection in the water? Is there phosphorus in the water? If so the wake itself will create light that can be seen.

On a moonless night pretty much the best you can do visually is hope to get a silhouette on the horizon where the star field can highlight the background. A moonless surface attack could get a submarine extremely close but if they come in too fast wake can give away the position especially if there is phosphorous present.

During stormy weather ... well it simply depends on the weather. I have seen it stormy at night where visibility might have been 100 feet at best. I think the worst day storm or fog condition I saw put visibility at 100-200 yards. I have seen it blow 60knot winds so it was raining sideways but the sea perfectly calm and I have seen 12-20 foot seas with a bright sunny sky. Take every possible weather condition and throw them in a bag and pull out two and I bet you that you can see them happen at sea at the same time.

Sure we had radar but we still held manned lookouts. I found it to be a fun job and during the 4-8 watch there is nothing that beats those open ocean sunsets and sunrises.

[Bilge_Rat]

I had another frustating experience with TMO. I tracked a lone merchant at night, had a perfect setup, raised my scope at 2,000 meters for a final check. The ship instantly spotted my scope and started taking evasive action. :/\\!!

Anyway, digging through the AI files, I think I found the problem. RFB and the stock game have a detection threshold of 120 seconds, which as I understand it means that even when all the conditions are present for the AI to spot you, it takes an initial 2 minutes before the AI reacts. In TMO, this time is reduced to 0.5 seconds, so the AI spots you instantly. The TMO "easier AI" mod has the same issue.

I am going to bump up the detection threshold back to 120 seconds and test it out.

[Dread Knot]

I am going to bump up the detection threshold back to 120 seconds and test it out.

Interesting. Let us know the results.

[Bilge_Rat]

false alarm, turns out stock uses a detection time of 0.5 as well:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=111395

Based on my reading of the (visual) settings in the SIM.cfg file, the AI should not spot the periscope at all ?!? :hmmm:



[Visual]
Detection time=0.5
Sensitivity=0.01
Fog factor=1.0
Light factor=1.0
Waves factor=1.0
Enemy surface factor=400
Enemy speed factor=15
[Visual]


- Think of the AI as a traffic cop. To get a ticket, you must be in violation of certain rules. Likewise, for visual detection to occur, you must be in violation of certain parameters.

- speed factor in this case means that you must be doing 15 kts or more for the AI to notice you.

- Surface factor means how much surface area of your sub you must be presenting to the AI in order for him to notice you.

- Ive long suspected that for visual detection to occur, you must be breaking both of the above listed paremeters to get a response, but ive not conclusvly proved that. Its either A, or B, or All of the above, im not 100% positve.

- detection time. You must be exceeding the surface and speed factors for this amount of time to illiicet a response.

- Fog/light/wave factors. Think of them as enviormental dampeners, or how much the enviorment handicaps the AI. Smaller the number the less the handycap, the larger the number, the more the handycap.







there must be another setting that controls it.

[Eesocks]

Seems like the Mechants are better at detecting you than the IJN.

I contacted a group of heavy cruisers just south of Truk on Nov 3rd 1943 and after a 2 day chase that ended in the Bismark sea I'd managed to sink 5 of them,and didnt get detected by any of them until after I'd carried out my attack even though the 1st attack was in daylight with light fog and was around 1000 yds from the nearest one.

Later in the patrol I found an unescorted convoy of 6 Merchants in the Bismark sea. Easy pickings I thought, how wrong I was! Although it was similar conditions and my attack strategy was the same I couldn't get within 2000 yds before they detected me. Doesn't make sense sometimes.

I'm not complaining though, 5 Heavy Cruisers in one encounter is the stuff dreams are made of.

TMO 2.5
RSRDC for TMO
OTC for TMO 2.5
ISE v3
+ associated patches
100% realism

[Bubblehead1980]

false alarm, turns out stock uses a detection time of 0.5 as well:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=111395

Based on my reading of the (visual) settings in the SIM.cfg file, the AI should not spot the periscope at all ?!? :hmmm:



there must be another setting that controls it.

PM me your email, I will send you the .cfg I use along with some other visual mods, should help you get what you are seeking.

[TorpX]

I had another frustating experience with TMO. I tracked a lone merchant at night, had a perfect setup, raised my scope at 2,000 meters for a final check. The ship instantly spotted my scope and started taking evasive action. :/\\!!


Is it possible he didn't see you, but heard you?