Government Shutdown

[Bubblehead1980]

Britains wartime debt and national independence movements across the empire had far more to do with the demise of the British Empire than socialist governments did.

Not saying that socialist policies didn't help but they were definitely not the primary cause.


I won't disagree, various factors but it's a huge part of the decline and definitely the main cause of ours(USA)

[Tchocky]

So, we dig ourselves deeper in debt with little thought of entitlement reform and spending cuts.

Actually this keeps federal spending low due to the sequester. Which is a fancy way of saying spending cuts. Deficits are also shrinking fast.

Regarding entitlement reform, there's going to be a budget conference so things may get hashed out there. It's depressing that it took a shutdown to get to conference but there you go.

The debt ceiling doesn't change anything about long term debt or deficits. It sounds like it does - which is why you get idiots vowing never to raise it. It should be abolished.

[Hawk66]

Neither the immigration reform, nor Obamacare will decide if the U.S remains an (economic) superpower or not.

The people should more discussing about how to up skill the people, how to compete with China/Asia and what investments and reforms are necessary in the education sector and in the job world in general.

I really do not understand why politicians are discussing about Obamacare in epic depth but not the real issues, which the country faces now. This seems to me being an ideological battle, nothing more.

But the same is true for Europe. We discuss endless our Euro-debacle and in Germany about our "Energiewende" (drop out of nuclear generated energy).

If we continue the same way like in the last 10 years, China's political system (mixture of capitalism and government-controlled, no individiual rights) will win the battle. The do not need endless our markets in the current magnitude to sell their products...they have soon Africa and their own domestic market because their people get richer.

[TarJak]

I won't disagree, various factors but it's a huge part of the decline and definitely the main cause of ours(USA)

So Obama is to blame for the GFC, the war debt that Bush handed over when he left power? Go figure. The decline of the US started largely due to the war in Afghanistan more than 10 years ago. The rot had set in well before then in Iraq. Going into those wars with poor strategies for what happened afterwards was criminal negligence of the first degree. didn't see many socialist policies making that happen.

Please try to use evidence when you make ridiculous claims. It makes them much harder to refute them.

[JU_88]

I won't disagree, various factors but it's a huge part of the decline and definitely the main cause of ours(USA)

I reckon in Americas case its a combination of welfare, warfare and simply too much government!. If congress followed your constitution properly you wouldnt have any of those problems at all, the US needs to cut back on socialist programs, but equally it needs to cut back on foreign aid packages and reduce its military bases & presence over seas, if some other parts of the developed world wants you fight certain wars for any reason then they should be paying you for it and not lending you money to do it IMO.

[Tchocky]

Foreign aid as percentage of budget is somewhere been nothing and less than nothing.

If congressional Republicans would behave like adults there might be a chance of knocking out solutions.

I'm not immune to a "pox on both your houses" approach, and both parties bear responsibility for this mess. But only one started a fight it couldn't possibly win, with no strategy, and the only people who get hurt is everyone else.

That might be what you get for electing people to government who don't believe there should be a government. Who knows.

[JU_88]

Foreign aid as percentage of budget is somewhere been nothing and less than nothing.

If congressional Republicans would behave like adults there might be a chance of knocking out solutions.

I'm not immune to a "pox on both your houses" approach, and both parties bear responsibility for this mess. But only one started a fight it couldn't possibly win, with no strategy, and the only people who get hurt is everyone else.

That might be what you get for electing people to government who don't believe there should be a government. Who knows.

True still, I wouldn't call an average of 50 million dollars a year (in recent times) 'less than nothing' its still something that could be better spent elsewhere.

[Dread Knot]

That might be what you get for electing people to government who don't believe there should be a government. Who knows.



One factor to keep in mind as we probably lurch towards another showdown in February is that the majority of members of Congress have relatively homogenous constituencies left and right. Safe seats in other words. That means they're probably hearing overwhelmingly from only one side of the argument back home, and facing limited pressure to find a compromise thanks to gerrymandering and redistricting. For many members, particularly those on the right, the greatest threat that they face is a primary challenge from that wing of the party.

I think it's safe to say that recent redistricting activity has contributed to polarization, and some evidence that increasingly extreme districts have contributed to more extreme lawmakers. Not only that, but an increasing number of Americans are choosing to move to, and live in districts that have the same political slant that they do.

The Balkanization of America politics is probably here to stay.

[Skybird]

See you again for the same movie, same theater, early next year.

The good news is you can bring your old tickets. Devalued tickets of now grant you free entrance then again. But when you take your seat, take care you do not break into the eroded ground, it's all hollow.

[Armistead]

At least McConnel got some pork out of it.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/conservatives-mitch-mcconnell-kentucky-kickback-spending-deal-98428.html

[Wolferz]

At least McConnel got some pork out of it.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/conservatives-mitch-mcconnell-kentucky-kickback-spending-deal-98428.html

Thanks to that California harpy Feinstein.:haha::O:

Squeal like a pig, Mitch! Soooweee!
Illinois gets some of those pork rinds too. Extra salty.

[mapuc]

From a danish newspaper(Informationen) today



The Danish economist Jorgen Moller Ørstrøm sees no sign of U.S. recognition that the current model of society does not correspond to society's ability and willingness. Therefore it ends up wrong - whether the debt ceiling is raised again

He cont.

"If you talk to Americans about debt and deficit of public finances, it is as if it does not exist. They understand the words, but not what it means to them. Therefore, the problem becomes bigger and bigger ..."

he and many other economical experts, expect USA to go bankruptcy in the next 10-15 years.

Have copied two part of the whole article that I found interesting

'America's problem is that it runs with a social model that the American will not pay for, "says Jørgen Ørstrøm Moller, a professor at Singapore Management University and Copenhagen Business School

His skepticism about the U.S. decision-makers' ability to bring order to the household accounts are based both on current events in Congress and on the historical experience.

"For me, both the analysis and the solution is simple. Since 1961, the United States has only five times had a surplus in the state budget. Since 1981 the U.S. has only twice had a surplus on the balance of payments.

If one simplifies a little bit, it means that the political majority in the United States want to maintain a social model that costs about 25 per cent. of national income, but will not pay more than 20 per cent. for it. This has been done in, I do not know how many years, and it has so far been able to borrow to.

Now you approach, however, a critical point for external public debt in relation to the U.S. GDP, "said Jorgen Moller Ørstrøm

Is this correct?

Markus

[Bilge_Rat]

McConnell is the epitome of the ruthless career politician, but he seems to be the only one of the GOP leadership who can get anything done.

There was an interesting article about how he outmaneuvered and neutralized Ted Cruz. The kid never saw it coming...



Mitch McConnell Schools Ted Cruz On How The Game Is Played

WASHINGTON -- More concerned with attacks from the left than the right and eager, as always, to dominate the inside game, Kentucky Sen. Mitch McConnell became the functional head of the Republican Party over the last week as he led behind-the-scenes negotiations to reach a spending and debt deal.

He risked becoming a punching bag for the tea party and its loudest leader, Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas. But McConnell did not seem to mind -- even though in his 2014 reelection race, he has a tea party challenger, businessman Matt Bevin of Louisville.

"This notion that McConnell is hiding under the desk because of Matt Bevin and the tea party is a lazy Washington media narrative and it isn't true," said one of the Senate minority leader's top aides. "This deal shows that McConnell has one goal, which is to get things done."

If this week is any indication, it's Cruz who should be careful in taking on McConnell, a five-term Senate veteran whose syrupy voice and turtle-slow demeanor hide a combative political mind.

McConnell isolated and neutralized Cruz by meeting quietly and carefully with small groups of GOP senators over the last week, and then took soundings at lunches and conferences -- all the while essentially working around Cruz and his handful of top lieutenants. McConnell deployed a novel buddy system, in which about 10 GOP senators worked privately in pairs with friends across the aisle to sound out various provisions of the deal.

(...)



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/16/mitch-mcconnell-ted-cruz_n_4110041.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000003

[Tchocky]

Discussion topic - pork makes it easier to make substantive deals and isn't always a bad thing.

Research material - the paucity of legislation passed since earmarks were banned.

[Mr Quatro]

I would say a $2.9 million dollar dam is a little more than just pork. It's a whole lot of little piggies saying "what's in it for me if I allow this bill to pass" knowing full well that he was up for re-election in his home state of Kentucky.

but also knowing full well that it was in the best interest of the USA for the gov to get back to work and have a debt ceiling bill pass too.

So he got something for it at least, plus I like lakes and fishing and recreation and the generated electric power it will provide. So it's hard to find fault with Senator Mitch McConnel.

I wish we could get a dam in my back yard too :yep:

[AVGWarhawk]

McConnell is the epitome of the ruthless career politician, but he seems to be the only one of the GOP leadership who can get anything done.

There was an interesting article about how he outmaneuvered and neutralized Ted Cruz. The kid never saw it coming...






The only thing McConnell did was work on his re-election.

[Wolferz]

I would say a $2.9 million dollar dam is a little more than just pork. It's a whole lot of little piggies saying "what's in it for me if I allow this bill to pass" knowing full well that he was up for re-election in his home state of Kentucky.

but also knowing full well that it was in the best interest of the USA for the gov to get back to work and have a debt ceiling bill pass too.

So he got something for it at least, plus I like lakes and fishing and recreation and the generated electric power it will provide. So it's hard to find fault with Senator Mitch McConnel.

I wish we could get a dam in my back yard too :yep:

This project is not being built to create another recreational lake. It's not even being built to generate hydro electric power. It's a replacement for two other locks and dams to reduce the time it takes for barge traffic to traverse the busiest section of the Oho river from five hours to one.


http://www.lrl.usace.army.mil/Missions/CivilWorks/Navigation/LocksandDams/OlmstedLocksandDam.aspx
http://www.lrl.usace.army.mil/Missions/CivilWorks/Navigation/LocksandDams/OlmstedLocksandDam.aspx

We have bridges falling apart on our interstate highways and they want to waste money on barge traffic.:stare::roll:

[TarJak]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-18/lockyer-us-shutdown/5031852

Academics take on the cause of the shut down. I watched a doco yesterday on the Republican party which made the point that despite everyone who's anyone in the party identifying themselves as Reaganites some seem to miss the fact that one of Reagans best qualities was the ability to know when to push for more and when to accept compromise.

[soopaman2]

This project is not being built to create another recreational lake. It's not even being built to generate hydro electric power. It's a replacement for two other locks and dams to reduce the time it takes for barge traffic to traverse the busiest section of the Oho river from five hours to one.


http://www.lrl.usace.army.mil/Missions/CivilWorks/Navigation/LocksandDams/OlmstedLocksandDam.aspx
http://www.lrl.usace.army.mil/Missions/CivilWorks/Navigation/LocksandDams/OlmstedLocksandDam.aspx

We have bridges falling apart on our interstate highways and they want to waste money on barge traffic.:stare::roll:



Over two hundred million trips are taken daily across deficient bridges in the nation’s 102 largest metropolitan regions. In total, one in nine of the nation’s bridges are rated as structurally deficient, while the average age of the nation’s 607,380 bridges is currently 42 years. The Federal Highway Administration (FHWA) estimates that to eliminate the nation’s bridge deficient backlog by 2028, we would need to invest $20.5 billion annually, while only $12.8 billion is being spent currently. The challenge for federal, state, and local governments is to increase bridge investments by $8 billion annually to address the identified $76 billion in needs for deficient bridges across the United States.

But ya know, Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and any other mud eating freeloaders need it more than us, also we need to prop up the UN damn near by ourselves, and give huge tax rebates, so multi billion making companies do not have to pay a dime in taxes...Well if you are an energy company at least. Right GE??

I drive across the GW bridge in NYC every day, and this thing carries 102 million vehicles a year, it was built in 1927, opened in 1931.

This bridge carries the most traffic in the world, yet you can see the rust spot as you drive on it.

If this bridge failed it would worsen already congested traffic in and out of NYC, which would cost the economy alot.

That is just one bridge in NY/NJ.

Imagine this amplified over the thousands of structurally unsound bridges we have, all over the country.


But, that military base needs to stay open...That senator needs his dam, and those military industrial boys need more planes and tanks. After all, we need to defend ourselves, and Europe.

Who cares if Americans can get to work, just as long as we have the biggest military penis in the world.

[Ducimus]

Growing the Debt: US resumes $1.6B in aid to Pakistan (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/10/21/growing-debt-us-resumes-16b-in-aid-to-pakistan/)

Ummm...... why?!

I'm so glad our politiicans were able to kick the can down the road, because giving money away to a people who hate our guts is clearly a priority.

[Skybird]

Not all austerity is equal. Nice graphs in here: LINKLINKLINK (http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/338630/not-all-austerity-equal-matthew-melchiorre#) From January this year.

[mookiemookie]

some seem to miss the fact that one of Reagans best qualities was the ability to know when to push for more and when to accept compromise.

Because they've rehabbed Reagan's name into something it never was when he was alive, and the newly created, revisionist Reagan who never really existed at all is the mythical ideological purity test for them to strive for.