Who knows about making AI ships fire torpedoes? your services are needed!

[Bubblehead1980]

A project I have been working on for a while is "wolfpacks" for Us subs.Of course, they were different than german wolfpacks, typically only 3-4 subs but they wreaked havoc on the Japanese from late 43 until end of the war.Now there are limitations such as making subs dive and surface but we do have a great AI sub in SH 4 TMO RSRD, just needs some fixing up.This is beyond my skill but I figure if DD's and PT boats can be made to fire torpedoes and they can in SH 3, surely this can be done in SH 4.

Someone with the knowledge and skill, please take the AI fleetboat and make it able to fire torpedoes, or all the US sub classes if would prefer and the IJN AI fleetboat as well:arrgh!:.I have built wolf packs for mod but currently all the can do is use deck gun and distract.They need deck crew added, AA guns added and ability to shoot torpedoes, which is most important.

[polyfiller]

Erm ... I think that would be me. I have working AI wolkpacks on German side in the unfinished TSWSM.

The plus side is that the AI untis (subs & dstroyers) can be made to fire. Downside is they treat thme like guns, and the accuracy is a real challenge. They can hit things - more chance against convoys than individual ships, but don't be surprised if sometime nothing hit by a whole pack of subs.

Refire rate tubing and total reload settings are a major challenge also.

[polyfiller]

Should say tuning in above .... am sufferring from pneumonia and have been unwell for sometime... spelling and reading / typing not good just now.... keyboard looks like it's sailing through a 10ft swell just now :-(

[Webster]

I know TDW was working on that but I don't know where he is on it

[Bubblehead1980]

Erm ... I think that would be me. I have working AI wolkpacks on German side in the unfinished TSWSM.

The plus side is that the AI untis (subs & dstroyers) can be made to fire. Downside is they treat thme like guns, and the accuracy is a real challenge. They can hit things - more chance against convoys than individual ships, but don't be surprised if sometime nothing hit by a whole pack of subs.

Refire rate tubing and total reload settings are a major challenge also.


When you are well, if willing to do US and even Japanese AI subs firing torpedoes that would great and much appreciated.I understand the limitations, I once had used the PT boat mod and while their accuracy was not great, just having them fir torpedoes and posing a threat was great.I had some Elco boats firing torpedoes at japanse tf in surigao strait in october 1944, they scored torpedo hits on a Battleship and sunk a cruiser.

I wouldn't mind if subs accuracy is not great and even if could only fire two torpedoes in an attack, it would add something and hey they would score hits sometimes.Just having AI subs posing an actual threat due to torpedoes would add much to the game, esp as far as the wolfpacks are concerned.

[polyfiller]

So do you need help creating the packs of AI subs, or making them fire torps ?

If you are able to, create the AI subs - this will save a lot of work (for me). My recommendaiton is to create 3 to 5 versions of each model sub you want to be controlled by AI. The differetence between each is the depth - make at leat one of these run at a depth of between 7 and 15 metres ... these will fire most torps. I also did one at 50 metres which fireed - to simulate a sub which attacked and then increased it's depth. Having AI subs in game which all run same depth is not too realistic IMHO .... it was nice for me to have to guess which depth of sub I'd set up in specific mission when testing depth charging.

One thing I also did was create AI subs with no torps, or very limited ammunition - again to simulate a sub which was being chased rather than being able to be offensive.

If you can create the subs I can then help get them firing reasonably accurately ( slightly better than the 4% or so Darkfish managed).

[Bubblehead1980]

So do you need help creating the packs of AI subs, or making them fire torps ?

If you are able to, create the AI subs - this will save a lot of work (for me). My recommendaiton is to create 3 to 5 versions of each model sub you want to be controlled by AI. The differetence between each is the depth - make at leat one of these run at a depth of between 7 and 15 metres ... these will fire most torps. I also did one at 50 metres which fireed - to simulate a sub which attacked and then increased it's depth. Having AI subs in game which all run same depth is not too realistic IMHO .... it was nice for me to have to guess which depth of sub I'd set up in specific mission when testing depth charging.

One thing I also did was create AI subs with no torps, or very limited ammunition - again to simulate a sub which was being chased rather than being able to be offensive.

If you can create the subs I can then help get them firing reasonably accurately ( slightly better than the 4% or so Darkfish managed).

Already have the subs, in TMO RSRD.The AI Jap Sub and AI fleetboat, just need to be made where can fire torpedoes.

I have made the wolfpacks already, so far have 10 wolfpacks in RSRD campaign from late 43 until end of war.All they can really do right now is distract the escorts which is helpful on the heavily screened convoys in 1944 and 45, some end up getting gunned down, others fight back with deck guns but have it where they speed away and then "dive" (reaching last waypoint and being deleted).Since can't make them attack with torpedoes or submerged, they all attack on surface at night. Just need them to be able to fire torpedoes, if could make them actually dive, that would be great.Main thing is ability to fire torpedoes.I have no clue how to do this with the subs so.

[jhapprich]

interested in this,too. ive tried adding thedarwraith`s ai torpedo launcher to a AI Permit, which will launch torpedos at me, but since these are non-homing, they will not hit and i havent found a solution for this yet. also, i used an animated submarine model(diving planes,periscopes) as a subnode on the DD Somers, so that model will actually dive and will represent a sonar target. no real diving, but better than a surface runner. my next aproach will be trying to give it a real anti-sub weapon based on the depth charge.

[Bubblehead1980]

interested in this,too. ive tried adding thedarwraith`s ai torpedo launcher to a AI Permit, which will launch torpedos at me, but since these are non-homing, they will not hit and i havent found a solution for this yet. also, i used an animated submarine model(diving planes,periscopes) as a subnode on the DD Somers, so that model will actually dive and will represent a sonar target. no real diving, but better than a surface runner. my next aproach will be trying to give it a real anti-sub weapon based on the depth charge.

:salute: keep it up. So much potential in all of this.I would go back and rework the woldpacks if had AI subs that could fire torpedoes, dive, attack submerged etc.Things would not have to be so scripted.On the flip side, if AI japanese sub can fire torpedoes submerged etc, adds a whole new element to the game as well.Player will be dodging torpedoes sometimes...

[jhapprich]

hmm. however i dont think we can add a real AI submarine. possible is a submerged target we can detect( bearing,heading,range), but not its depth, so especially in my case, no submerged dogfights. a proper weapon for that ai sub against other subs is an even bigger problem. besides, i tried an AI EchoII with missile-launching guns(Cruise-missile model attached to the shell, a missile trail, the surface-only launchers of the sub are the guns annd have to be elevated to a certain angle before they can fire, the shell speed is slow so you can see the missile on course, the range is limited, the reloading cycle is long etc.) which killed my ai nimitz quite well on a hit`n`run attack. for a wwII boat, you could use a torpedo as shell model running BELOW the shell node and make it very fast to get a straigt "flight", attach the (invisible?) gun very close to the water level and have the sub "shoot" surface targets.however, it would be most likely instant killing with a laserlike weapon, but poor japs subby wouldnt be kanonenfutter any longer.hmm better idea while writing: check out the firing angle of the gun using a slow spped and find out the usable range, then add an animation controller to the torpedo model that keeps it below the surface on a straight level while the shell flies its courve.this way the torpe can go a little more realistically...hell im good in the morning

[polyfiller]

Not sure why you say you can't have AI controlled submerged subs ... I've been hunting them and depth charging them for quite some time in the TSWSM development build. Why do you think submerged AI subs won't work ?

Making DC's isn't too much a of a porblem. add a munition and a launcher to fire them (a gun in effect) and bob's your uncle, or sister, depending on how complex a family strcuture you belong to.

To get the AI subs to fire submerged, you just mount the torp launchers on nodes which are xx metres above the subs hull ... as in, the torp launchers are still surfaced.

I've even got a 50m submerged sub which still fires torps at me on the surface.

[TorpX]

I can't follow everything written here, but it sure looks encouraging. :hmm2:

[jhapprich]

polyfiller, i guess tswsm isnt ready yet? maybe you could upload your ai torpedolauncher and your ai submarine so i could take a look at it. nice idea with the depth charge ,however it is not that simple.same goes for the submerged sub launching torpedoes. hard to believe you have all that already, until i have seen it myself.

[jhapprich]

great news! i finally managed to make thedarkwraith`s torpedo spawner fire DIRECTLY and RELIABLY at the target! found it out while adding the torpedo spawn effect to a k-gun as firing effect.when the enemy lunched its depthcharge run at me , the AI-Torpedo was launched heading directly towards my sub all the time,however it would go very slowly,floating on the water surface so its propeller was useless(any idea to solve this,polyfiller?).BUT i then had the idea not to make a torpedogun that used ashell as origin for the torpedolauncheffect, but simply adding a dummy shell with 0damage to an existing gun and make the torpedospawnfx the firing effect instead of the muzzle flash. voila, i was sunk all the times, and i ran 15 knots surfaced. guessing that an AI Elco would run much faster itself, it would blow eg. the Yamato to hell without launching dud torpedos all day and mybe one would hit. sozund out it does not work for himng torpedoes.they will be launched and run towards me,but behave like unguided, meaning they go on a straight course but you can see the torpedo itself turning towards your propellor. if i can unlock the alignment of trhe launched torpedo from the initial vector of the particle generator, guided torpedoes will work as well!!!!:rock:

[jhapprich]

ok, having changed some values of the original torpedospawnfx, i managed to make the launcher run smooth. it is now possible to make all the existing torpedolaunchers of the ai ships actually work+ i modified the k-gun so there is the possibility to launch torpedos on submerged targets. ill make an upload asap, currently on another pc.

[Bubblehead1980]

ok, having changed some values of the original torpedospawnfx, i managed to make the launcher run smooth. it is now possible to make all the existing torpedolaunchers of the ai ships actually work+ i modified the k-gun so there is the possibility to launch torpedos on submerged targets. ill make an upload asap, currently on another pc.


Very nice, look forward to checking it out.Would be nice to have Elco and IJN PT boats, DD's etc launching torpedoes accurately.

[Admiral Halsey]

Very nice, look forward to checking it out.Would be nice to have Elco and IJN PT boats, DD's etc launching torpedoes accurately.

That would make the Guadalcanal battles more realistic.

[iambecomelife]

great news! i finally managed to make thedarkwraith`s torpedo spawner fire DIRECTLY and RELIABLY at the target! found it out while adding the torpedo spawn effect to a k-gun as firing effect.when the enemy lunched its depthcharge run at me , the AI-Torpedo was launched heading directly towards my sub all the time,however it would go very slowly,floating on the water surface so its propeller was useless(any idea to solve this,polyfiller?).BUT i then had the idea not to make a torpedogun that used ashell as origin for the torpedolauncheffect, but simply adding a dummy shell with 0damage to an existing gun and make the torpedospawnfx the firing effect instead of the muzzle flash. voila, i was sunk all the times, and i ran 15 knots surfaced. guessing that an AI Elco would run much faster itself, it would blow eg. the Yamato to hell without launching dud torpedos all day and mybe one would hit. sozund out it does not work for himng torpedoes.they will be launched and run towards me,but behave like unguided, meaning they go on a straight course but you can see the torpedo itself turning towards your propellor. if i can unlock the alignment of trhe launched torpedo from the initial vector of the particle generator, guided torpedoes will work as well!!!!:rock:

Question - do your modified torpedoes gradually sink after launch? This has been a longstanding problem with the AI torpedoes, and while experimenting with the original mod I had to make torpedoes run at about 70 knots or give them a very short range - otherwise they would gradually run too deep to hit anything. Just wondering if you know what causes this.

[TorpX]

great news! i finally managed to make thedarkwraith`s torpedo spawner fire DIRECTLY and RELIABLY at the target!
Excellent work! :woot:

[jhapprich]

they run straight WITHOUT descending, which is controled by the particle generator. currently, i have added a new type93 double launcher to the guns_radars.dat that fires one torpedo at a time and is assigned to a M*-node class "cannon". to add the launcher to an existing ship, you need to edit the *.dat and *.sim. the T*-nodes need to be renamed M*, and you have to add the corresponding obj_turret to the sim. in the *.equ-file, the T*-entry must be reassigned "M*",and the "Torpedolauncher93double" will replace the connected weapon. i will upload the file today, and there will be a demo-mission with a Permit-class lookalike Black Swan with both torpedo launchers for surface and submerged combat. there will also be the single files necessary for the ship editing only,no further modding by me.this way, you will have the opportunity to edit the stock ships and to implement the launcher in your own mods.ps don`t get this wrong, but personally i am particulary happy having solved this, for now i am able to moke ai-subs a real threat in the cold war mod. thanks thedarkwraith for the initial idea!ps anyone knows how to make screenshots in win7? wanted to add pictures, but print screen wont work...hmmm:hmmm:

[Bubblehead1980]

they run straight WITHOUT descending, which is controled by the particle generator. currently, i have added a new type93 double launcher to the guns_radars.dat that fires one torpedo at a time and is assigned to a M*-node class "cannon". to add the launcher to an existing ship, you need to edit the *.dat and *.sim. the T*-nodes need to be renamed M*, and you have to add the corresponding obj_turret to the sim. in the *.equ-file, the T*-entry must be reassigned "M*",and the "Torpedolauncher93double" will replace the connected weapon. i will upload the file today, and there will be a demo-mission with a Permit-class lookalike Black Swan with both torpedo launchers for surface and submerged combat. there will also be the single files necessary for the ship editing only,no further modding by me.this way, you will have the opportunity to edit the stock ships and to implement the launcher in your own mods.ps don`t get this wrong, but personally i am particulary happy having solved this, for now i am able to moke ai-subs a real threat in the cold war mod. thanks thedarkwraith for the initial idea!ps anyone knows how to make screenshots in win7? wanted to add pictures, but print screen wont work...hmmm:hmmm:

Absolutely amazing.So could add this to the AI subs in TMO RSRD?

[jhapprich]

jap. here is the download. there is a german singlemission called "Fubuki vs Convoy" to demonstrate the launcher.the running depth of the aitorpedo depends on the firing angle of the "barrel" of the launcher, i.e. if you want it to go deeper, you need to open the ships *.sim and lower the elevation angle of the turret and its firing sector.

link: http://www.gamefront.com/files/23782530/AITorpedolauncher.zip
http://imageshack.com/a/img407/91/a1hf.jpghttp://imageshack.com/a/img46/9363/xnih.jpghttp://imageshack.com/a/img850/5794/iimp.jpghttp://imageshack.com/a/img19/9878/g9hj.jpghttp://imageshack.com/a/img841/7061/fopw.jpghttp://imageshack.com/a/img89/6310/b6d6.jpghttp://imageshack.com/a/img600/1488/vjxo.jpg

[TorpX]

Amazing! :up:

[polyfiller]

jhapprich - can we compare notes on how accurate you managed to get the torpedoes - I had to mess around with mounting the torpspan launcher onto dummy turrets - to try and get the launcher to lead targets by enough to enable the torps to have some chance of hitting - issues I had to try and work around are;

1) limiting the torp launcher gun to short range - otherwise the Ai insists on trying to launch from a long way out with disaterous accuracy. No real solution - I changed AI to only spot targets at short range, but, of course, this buggers up apsects of the game when you want the AI to engage at long ranges (destroyers and cruisers mostly).

2) I played around with different turret configurations and error angles to enable a "spread" launch - again this helps substantially with accuracy at fater / longer range targets.

If you show me your settings, I'll share mine.

For AI subs, as stated before, I found it best to create subs at multiple different depths, all with the launches mounted above water level (oterhwise AI won't fire them) ... so multiple AI sub models, each at different depth and launcher mount points at different heights above the main sub model.

I never had an issue with AI torps sinking - strange .... if anyting the ones I use (original credit to Drakfish) seemed to skip along the surface too much.

Sounds like we've all made promising progress. What I'm playing with right now is multiple depth charge models (they are configured as torpedoes so you can laucnh from rear tubes) - so that I can depth charge at different depths.... although was also going to play with different magnetic pistol settings to see if that can dispense with the need for different depth charge configurations.

Did you use homing torps for the Ai torps ? If so, did you modify an existing torp or use one of the pre-configured homing torp types ?

[polyfiller]

Also forgot to mention I plaan to release a "development version" of the TSWSM soon - substantially unfinished in terms of campaign setup, but a mod with the base usints and featurs which others can help build campains for.... am currently learnig how to configure patrols within campaing - just created my first mission - to assist with operation Dynamo - objectives to rescuse folk from sea and shoot down Stukka's :-)

[jhapprich]

hmm,not much to compare...on a stopped target its 100%. i tried something yesterday and made the destroyers invulnerable, furthermore i deletet the normal gun turrets, so they only had the torpedos for the convoy attack in the demo mission, and they killed every vessel within a few minutes. most of the time was waiting for the impact. also, on a moving target, you just need to set the torpedos speed a little higher, which will greatly improve the accuracy. found it out when i changed the aitorpedo from mk 14 to soviet shqual(200knots).working on an AI ALFA now.

[jhapprich]

polyfiller, just read your post carefully. to make it simple, my launcher works a lot different than what you are using, and so do my ai submarines. we are talking about totally different ways to solve these things. have a lokk at my launcher, downloadlink below, amd youll see. i repeat, this is not thedarkwraith`s torpedospawngun anymore. ps would be really interested in seeing your ai launched homing torpedos work.

[jhapprich]

you want some fun? add the SSN-15 Cruise missile to the torpedospawnfx and change the reload time of the launcher from 10s to 2 s,voila-you made a battlestar:D. besides, this is what i meant about the accuracy and the speed. launching those things, the destroyers in the (guess what) demo mission sink the whole convoy without getting sunk themselves.

[jhapprich]

the launcher effect even works with player controlled guns. we will have useable launchers on playable ships now!

[Bubblehead1980]

Great work, going to give this a try tonight. Do you have this working on AI US or Japanese/German submarines yet?

[polyfiller]

Jhapprich - thanks - just downloaded your files ... if I read the files correctly the approach is similar to what Darkfish originally released - a hidden gun turret with hidden turret / barrels (to help with tracking target ?) and the fire effect in the the .sim file for torplauncher93 in guns_radars.sim is - 0x38e9700135eb5250 which calls the node $Torp_Spawner_PG in torpspawngunfx.dat - which spawns 0x8f346dcc43bfbcb2 as a single particle - which I presume is a torpedo ( your zip file doesn't include torpedoes_us.dat .. but in my that corresponds too a US MK14 torpedo) ?

So the difference I can see betwen your files and Darkfish is that you call the ID of $Torp_Spawner_PG as the fire effect whereas darkfish calls the ID of it's parent node - $Torp_Spawner (0x6d21707950f0ac3c). Does this affect how the torpeo aims / fires ? I also note that you try to limit the range of the launcher by specifying 1000m as the range in the guns_radars.sim file. I did extensive testing of this and found the range specification has no effect whatsoever - I have a test mission with AI subs hunting a convoy at ranges varying from 1000M out to 6000m. The subs at 6000m fire just as soon as they can "see" a target and certainly take no notice of the range value in the .sim file. The range of the wepon (applies to all weapons according to my testing) is the shell speed - and you have this set to 2000 m/s. I have multiple launchers for submarines set to different shell speeds to try and force the AI to "lead" a moving target adequatley. I have a range of launchers with shell speeds from 10 m/s 12 m/s, 14 m/s and 16 m/s. I found this gave some sort of spread to the launch of torpedoes (4 forward launching launchers on a sub, one for each speed) ... however the AI's ability to use this to lead the target provded problematic and the values for the parent invisible turret had a bearing on how this works - for example I also set a .sim file entry for the hidden turret - and that's where I specify the 10 m/s shell speed.... this affects how the main launcher mount rotates / tracks the target, I then set a .sim entry fo the actual torp launcher barrel mounted on the turret with a shell speed of 1000000000000 (lots). This seemed to actually make the AI track a moving target at anything other than short (1000m or less) range.

I can understand that setting the torp speed to something unrealistically high would improve accuracy - but are your launchers actually leading the targets to try and aim a slow projectile, or is the fast torpedo speed compensating for almost no target leading by the AI ?

I'll load up and run your test missions.

The good news is we are all using the same sorts of approach and looks like we are all trying to compensate for the AI's inability to launch a torpedo / lead a target at realistic ranges.

Will post more later.

Thanks again for the upload / sharing :-)

[polyfiller]

OK, completed the Fubuki test mission - and also modified it a bit to really see if the launcher can shoot by leading the target - NOTE : the speed for the Mk14 in my torpedoes_us.dat is stock. I removed all but one of the Fubuki's and set it to run slowly - so that it couldn't use it's speed to achieve an easy shooting angle. I had it running alongside the convoy, "broadside" style shooting. I also eeked out the range a little - and noticed that when I went out to about 3500m the Fubuki didn't engage - either guns or torps ... must be AI-sensor setting.... was getting excited for a second thinking that the Fubuki was taking note of the range of the topr launcher - but no, it also failed to fire it's guns, and when it clsoed to around 1700m it engaged..... and failed to register a single torpedo hit.

No while a destoyer can thump around at high speed and eventually get close enough ... in a mission .... in campaign it will try to engage at longer ranges (will with my sensors.dat anyhow) ... and wil potentiallye xhaust all it's torp ammo (unless we set a high ammo store for the launcher as a workaround).. What I found with my destoyer test missions was that when they engage at, say 6000m, the try launching torps all over the place at rediculous angles and if I had 3 to 4 destroyers running in a fleet together, they would invariably end up torpedoing each other via their rapdi speed and changes of angles in closing the distance to target, combined with poor torp aiming.

I can confirm that right now, I reckon my torp launcher config leads the targets better than yours. I'll see how quickly I can upload my full TSWSM development version so you can take a look - would take me too long to extract just the torp stuff - Ihave about 10 Ai subs, loads of AI launchers etc and probably simpler if I upload the entire mod.

[merc4ulfate]

jap. here is the download.

link: http://www.gamefront.com/files/23782530/AITorpedolauncher.zip



Does the AITorpedolauncher folder go into the single mission folder of the game to run this test?

[Admiral Halsey]

Does the AITorpedolauncher folder go into the single mission folder of the game to run this test?

Use JGSME to run it. That's what I did and it worked fine.

[merc4ulfate]

Thank you Admiral

[Admiral Halsey]

Thank you Admiral

No problem.

[jhapprich]

@polyfiller: assigning the particle generator but not the parent node happened unintentionally and does not effekt anything. torpedo is launched as objekt particle, the parent effect is the torpedospawnfx.this effect replaces the muzzle flash, while darkfish used a cartridge effect. the gun still fires an invisible dummy shell with no damage at very high speed to have a stretched firing angle. the gun range of darkfish`s launcher cannot effect firing range, right, because the torpedo launching of his is independent from the gun. this is what i changed. my launcher actually fires a torpedo within the limitations you give it. you can adjust whether the torpedo will go staright below the surface, or you can have it dive within a specified angle(gun elevation) the range limitation to 1000m works, i have my fubukis fire their guns earlier than torpedos (however this does not always work, so i guess starting fire is depending on the weapon_cannon with the shortest range. i choose 1000m, since this is a reasonable distance to hit a moving target. further away, the launchers won`t fire, so range limitation works.the fubukis wont close in, right, because they are destroyers and the game is designed to have dd`s attack subs-this is when they will show their full offensive potential. and remember this is actually still a gun. changing the ai´s visual sensor range might help, havent tried this yet. but a good approach is to use very fast torpedos, this increased the sinkining rapidly. there is no effect in the placing of the weapon further to the bow or stern. hope ill have your files soon. best regards
ps what do you mean with "leading the target"?

[merc4ulfate]

I just ran this and I am pleased. The Japanese destroyers on the outskirts of the convoy do indeed close in to attack the convoy. Now between the escorts that are there and the merchant deck guns they get completely obliterated but the torpedoes is what I was looking at most.

My feelings on the torpedoes is that it adds a delightful aspect to the game. I find the number of fish fired by the destroyers is realistic but I do notice that some fish run closer to the surface and are more apt to strike their intended targets while some run very deep and never hit anything at all. The fish that run deep tend to have about a 30-45 degree nose up orientation while running laterally in a straight line and appear to be at least 10 meters, if not more, below the keel of the vessels. Those to deep never explode.

From what I saw I would say about 50% are running too deep but over all I sure do love the look of this.




=======================

Test two:

First two ships fired only 4 fish before being destroyed. Second two ships fired none before being destroyed. 1 out of 4 fish ran deep.

Test three:

5 fish total from ship one all others 0. 2 out of 3 fish ran deep but I noticed they started out shallower and got deeper as they went. The depth was no consistent and varied from fish to fish.

[polyfiller]

That is interesting - torps runing deep ... my setup the torps never run too deep.

Jhapprich - read your feedback - I think you might be confusing Darkwraith with Darjfish (or are they the same person) .... Darkfish's launcher always used a partile efect to spawn the torp ... so essentially same as what you have. Great minds thik alike I guess :-)

I've sent a message to our overlord to get permission to upload the TSWSM develoment mod ... then you'll get to see / test my config. for the torps.

[jhapprich]

really looking forward to this.yes, i meant darkfish. i now have an ai alfa, actually listed as unittype 200,that runs submerged, on its own power, with a submerged torpedo launcher. it attacks enemy targets, but it coul be a little more aggressive. any idea? very interested in your implementation of homing torpedos. would mean you would not use a particle generator, hm? ps treid the airtorpedo, which will not run , but stay on its spawnpoint like a mine, BUT it floats in the water straight, without nose up/down according to its defined depth.strange...

[merc4ulfate]

This photo shows the initial aim and firing of the lanchers. A very nice animation for the lanchers to turn and fire.

http://imageshack.com/a/img9/2115/i0ow.png

This image shows an intial offset to the depth of the two fish just fired.

http://imageshack.com/a/img201/9875/b8fu.png

This image of the same two fish shows that the offset has left one near the surface but the other is now much deeper and would pass under a vessel.

http://imageshack.com/a/img13/9514/6k54.png

Both the fish missed all targets but what I wanted to note here was that I followed only these two to the end of their fuel run. By the time they both ran out of fuel the separation in depth was so great that they can barly be seen in the same frame. The upper red circled one is still near the surface while the lower blue circled one is at least 100 meters below the surface. While they both ran straight one was affected but something which cause it to run deep. I wonder if the roll of the firing vessle from the first fish fireing, guns firing or sea state affected the trajectory of the second?
http://imageshack.com/a/img600/1176/yqw1.png


These two were fired at the same time and towards the same trajectory but the fish on the left took a port side turn perpendicular to the fish on the right.
http://imageshack.com/a/img9/1171/6iih.png


All three of these fish ran deep with two going much deeper after firing. Notice the nose up attitude of the fish. They would run straight but their nose would remain turned up anywhere from 20 to 40 degrees.
http://imageshack.com/a/img542/1204/0aw8.png

http://imageshack.com/a/img5/9018/lylq.png

My last test had the four desroyers firing over 50 fish with an estimated 50% running deep at varying levels. The "run to deep" nose up attitude and depth is not consistant which makes me wonder how much of this has to do with the ships roll on firing. The nose up attitude may be the fish trying to acheive its programed depth but unless programed to asend they will not. The downward trajectory may be causing it to remain on it's downward angle.

[jhapprich]

ok, took a look at your screenshots. first of all, are you using any mod that change your stock torpedos? 2nd, the different depth between the torpedos is caused by the launchers ability to raise/lower the barrel +/- 1 degree. the nose up/down caused by the programmed torpedo depth in the.sim of the torpedo, so is the different angle of some torpedos relatively to it`s curse. the reason is, that when firing the launcher, that is actually a cannon like the other gunturrets, the barrel aims towards the estimated target and shoots an invisble dummy shell. the torpedo is launched instead of the muzzle flash, this way i corrected the random targeting error of darkfish´s original spawner. so you have to think that way: the torpedo is a child of the parent node, the muzzle flash, and will always follow the vector of the parent, so it will run in the original firing direction +/-1 deg to the water level +tolerance. diving ones while be nose-up`s , as the torpedo will try to reach the running depth of his .sim; if there is a guidance enabled, it will also have a different horizontal orientation. this can best be seen using homing torpedos, they will turn towards the loudest soundsource but won`t reach it because curse and depth is dictatet by the muzzle flash the time the launcher fires. so what we can do is setting the elevation and tolerance both to "0", but i do not know if the launcher will properly fire(eg heavy whether, ship´s not steady-not time for targeting maybe?)

[merc4ulfate]

This is my mod list

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157

OpsMonsun_V705
OMv705_to_V720
OMv720_Patch5
OMEGU_v300
OMEGU_v300_Patch7
OM_Harder_Escort_L2
UBM Missions
Popular German Music From The 30´s
OM_Pac_Env
AITorpedolauncher

[jhapprich]

ok, you should try stock first. ps setting the elevation min/max to 0 or +/-0.01 and the elevation tolerance alike will cause the launcher not to fire at all. i just changed the date in the destroyers .sim/obj_turret and in the launchers sim in guns_radars as followed: elevation min0,max 1, fire 0/1 elevation min 0, max 1; weapon_cannon/ elevation min0,max 1, elevation tolerance 0,01. the torpedos are running virtually at the same depth now, almost no nose-up. ill give elevation tolerance 0 a try. curiusly, only the middle launcher of the fubuki would go lower at me. :hmmm:hmm...

ps. elevation tolerance 0 doesn`t work though, 0.01 works fine for me. ill add an magnetic detonator to the assigned torpedo instead
pss. tried the same with 0.001, only random noseups with the middle launcher. best solution for now

[merc4ulfate]

I quit playing the stock game some years ago. It just isn't a challenge.

I think the magnatic detonator would help a lot with any running a bit deeper than normal.

[polyfiller]

jhapprich - interesting .... I'll need to start playing around with my setting again - it's 2 years since I did this stuff and my memory isn't great. In terms of barrel angles, have you tired rotating the launching barrel through 90 degrees on the model ... so that when the barrel gets raised, it is actually turning horizontally ? I tried it but my range / shell speed config caused issues, IIRC.

My goal was to have the launchers lead the targets with realistic torpedo speeds ... and what I mean by lead ... is to aim in front of the target adequately so that the torps had a chance of hitting a target travelling at a consistent speed.... sort of having the AI fire as if it had a proper torpedo solution to the target.

As for range ... not convinced yours applies a range - I tested the mission and measured a launch from 1600M - well beyond your confirued 1000m limit - so I reckon it's a factor of your shell speed or just a relatively blind AIvisual sensor setting. BTW, for reference, I applied you files on top of Ops Monsoon (by base install for the TSWSM).

If we keep at this, am sure we'll make it better. I'll take a look at the accuracry factors over the coming weekend ... right now I'm fiaghting with a conversion of HMAS Sydney to be a playable unit ... and the little bugger is giving me all sorts of issues .... it's been 3 years since I converted a playable ship and I'm having to re-learn some stuff :-(

[Bubblehead1980]

Does this work with AI submarines yet?

[merc4ulfate]

I wonder why there is a vast array of distances and number of fish fired. Sometimes the DD get off a few a sometimes as many as 50+ between the four. I know they seem to steer certain courses so they come to specific firing angles so maybe being that the course is random this comes into play.


I hope this works out for longer firing distances.

I really love the look of this and would love to see more of this in the normal running game and hopefully enemy AIsubmarines. I would very much enjoy seeing this applied across all AI's from all countries that have torpedo capable vessels.

[polyfiller]

Yes this is working on AI submarines... both Jhapprich and I have working AI subs firing torpedoes.

[Bubblehead1980]

Yes this is working on AI submarines... both Jhapprich and I have working AI subs firing torpedoes.


Awesome.Are they included in the release?

[Bubblehead1980]

So do just enable this JSGME? how do we get other ships not included to fire torpedoes? I did not see a readme in the release and am not sure how.

[polyfiller]

I enabled via JSGME. If you want to add the launcher to other ships, you need to add the weapon Torpedolauncher93 to the ships .eqp file (located in the \data\sea\shipname directory). You need to work out which node on the ship is appropriate for the launcher - to do so open the ships .dat file using S3d and enable the model preview window. Many ships have specific T01, T02 etc. nodes for torp launcher mounting, but some have them named as M06, S06 etc. Just look for the appropriate node placement and reference it's name, then use that nodename in the .eqp file like this;

[Equipment 12]
NodeName=M06
LinkName=Torpedolauncher93
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231

Youl'll need to change M06 to mathc the node in the .dat file you find appropriate and chanhe the equipment number to be in sequence in the .eqp file.

Good luck.

[merc4ulfate]

So this particular addition is only working on those destroyers in the single mission that is created or the launcher is now working on any of those destroyers that show up in the game?

If this is not one that causes all those destroyers to have the launcher will we be seeing a mod that enables all surface and subsurface vessels to fire torpedoes?

[jhapprich]

right now the launcher only works on the fubuki when the mod is enabled. as polyfiller wrote below, it has to be added to any further vessels if you want it to run there. but you do not only have to add the launcher to the .eqp, you also have to redesignate the referencing T*-nodes to M* for weapon_cannon, and you have to assign the corresponding obj_turret in the ships *.sim, that dictates the firing paramaters such as firing sectors, traverse and elevation.besides, there is a seperate launcher for ships and for submarines with different parametes, and i will also add a launcher for the elco and the quad launchers.
ps polyfiller i changed the angle of the barrer in relation to the mount so the target leading on moving vessels works way better now. i will use a straight firing launcher and angulated versions on the ships to give it the ability to attack both moving and stopped vessels. the AI Alfa works fine now

[polyfiller]

jhapprich - just completed some more testing of you type93 launcher .... using my aisensors settings for detecting enemy targets, I have a Kent Class crusier configured with your type93 launcher and it's launching out to 3800 m, with the maximum range in the .sim file set to 1000m (unchanged from your config) ..... so I can confirm that the range limitation, as per my extensive testing with my torp setup, has no effect whatsoever.

Also to respond to your earlier quesiton about homing, I've just checked my config for the type 14 torpedo - either I added two guidance nodes in the .sim for the mk14 (Torpedoes_US.SIM) or the mk14 already had guidance configured - I can't remember which and I don't have a vanilla install to check against just at the moment. So the lower part of my .sim entry for the Mk14 is;

- Guidances [2]
- [0]
min_date = 01/01/1938
max_date = 31/03/1943
circle_runner_chance = 0.5
- GyroProblems [1]
[0]
max_deviation = 50.0
chance = 0.3
- DepthKeepingProblems [1]
- [0]
mindeviation = 1.5
maxdeviation = 3.3
chance = 70.0

-[1]
min_date = 31/03/1943
max_date = 31/12/1949
- GyroProblems [1]
maxdeviation = 50.0
chance = 0.2
DepthkeepingProblems [0]

I reckon I copied these from somewhere else and tweaked them a little - but I really can't remember for sure. Hope this helps.

[merc4ulfate]

Say one you add a Permit class Submarine to this launcher mix??



http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2133827&posted=1#post2133827

[jhapprich]

jhapprich - just completed some more testing of you type93 launcher .... using my aisensors settings for detecting enemy targets, I have a Kent Class crusier configured with your type93 launcher and it's launching out to 3800 m, with the maximum range in the .sim file set to 1000m (unchanged from your config) ..... so I can confirm that the range limitation, as per my extensive testing with my torp setup, has no effect whatsoever.

Also to respond to your earlier quesiton about homing, I've just checked my config for the type 14 torpedo - either I added two guidance nodes in the .sim for the mk14 (Torpedoes_US.SIM) or the mk14 already had guidance configured - I can't remember which and I don't have a vanilla install to check against just at the moment. So the lower part of my .sim entry for the Mk14 is;

- Guidances [2]
- [0]
min_date = 01/01/1938
max_date = 31/03/1943
circle_runner_chance = 0.5
- GyroProblems [1]
[0]
max_deviation = 50.0
chance = 0.3
- DepthKeepingProblems [1]
- [0]
mindeviation = 1.5
maxdeviation = 3.3
chance = 70.0

-[1]
min_date = 31/03/1943
max_date = 31/12/1949
- GyroProblems [1]
maxdeviation = 50.0
chance = 0.2
DepthkeepingProblems [0]

I reckon I copied these from somewhere else and tweaked them a little - but I really can't remember for sure. Hope this helps.

Sorry, but to my knowledge, homing torpedos will not work. to me, homing means acoustically tracking the propeller noise. the launchers work just fine on the stock installation within the possible parameters. honestly speaking, i do not believe the launchers you are describing in your posts, which seem to be based on the darkfish´s spawner, are working better, because this is simply technically not possible. maybe you just upload the files and make me change me mind about this, otherwise keep testing, but i wonder about your intentions. the original question of this thread, which is not mine, was whether there is a way to give ai controlled vessels a torpedo weapon. this has been solved by me and thats it. there will be an update with a basic ai submarine and two more useable launchers- one for subs to sub combat and one for the ai sub against surface ships. if i ever wanted the launcher to be able to attack from some 3000 m away, i would have done so. thanks for your input.

[merc4ulfate]

Any new development on this being able to be added in a completed version with JSGME for all ships carrying torpedoes?

[polyfiller]

I don't think it's a good move to add to all ships just now ... I'm confident we can't control the range at which the ships will try to launch, other than by reducing the ships detection ranges to the range at which we want them to launch torpedoes - which has all sorts of other gameplay consequences.


Jhapprich - you're correct - my memory is returning ... acustic homing can't be added to torps (hardcoded torpedo types) .. in the same we we can't add to the list of torpedoes, just eplace existing.... and if I rememebr correctly, when I tried to make the launcher use an existing acustic torpedo ... it caused CTD, but I can't remember for sure.

For me the key issue which persists is restricing the range at which Ai attempts to launch for ships. For Ai subs I have no qualms about setting their AI visual sensor to very short range ... and if you happen to cross their path within that range, they will fire on you / your convoy or whatever... but for ships, I think we still want ships to retain realistic detection ranges, but only fire torps at appropriate ranges ... and that's what I can't yet fix.

[merc4ulfate]

jhapprich ... I'm sorry but I hate you.

Those damn Fubuki destroyers have been kicking my ass of late.

I decided to change things up a bit and run Fall of the rising sun as well as the Iowa playable battleship mod.

Well that Iowa makes a very nice target for the Fubuki. I try to avoid them now even with my fire power. I try to pick them off from a distance. I have noticed once they turn perpendicular to me I have a great shot to sink them ... and if I turn their torpedoes have a great chance of sinking the Iowa.

I just sank three and the last one had turned perpendicular and after sinking it I turned to advance into another direction after their Task Force.

Boom, Boom, Boom, Boom ... Boom. Now I'm sinking from the torpedo hits. I hate you.

I love your mod. Even playing the Battleship Iowa your mod makes this a good challenge and not just a walk in the park.

I love the challenge this mod brings. It should be in everyones mod list.

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
FalloftherisingSun_V1.3_SH4V1.5_EN
USS Iowa
New Ships + Yamato AA Fix
Convoy Routes TMO+RSRD
tambor198's TMO+RSRDC missions pack
AITorpedolauncher
Webster's Missing Voices

[TorpX]

They really work that well?

Hmmm........ I'm impressed. :Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

[merc4ulfate]

I have been sunk twice now in two days by Fubuki Destroyers using their torpedoes.

If you see one turn 90 degrees to his chase course turn quickly in the opposite direction and hope for the best. I have yet to see a trail left by their fish so they are hard to spot but after my last stike I cammed below the surface to see number 4 and 5 hit me. I just couldn't believe it.

[jhapprich]

MUHAAAHAHAHAAAH eat that polyfiller they are killing ships now that feels great. maybe i should not implement submerged ai subs with that nasty torpedoes afterall or the game becomes a real killer. har har har laddies.
enjoy!:D

[Moin]

Great mod, also useful when you play ship mods!:)

EDIT:
More DDs for this mod: http://www.mediafire.com/download/37b98xvnmxz7ugl/More+DDs+for+AITorpedoLauncher.zip

Currently only tested in RFB2 with RSRD in single missions but should also work in the campaign!

[jhapprich]

mighty niccce!

[merc4ulfate]

I'd like to see more things like this.

The AI torpedo launching submarines would be a rather interesting addition to the set. Make it real or let go the wheel.

Sometimes no matter how I play the game it can become to easy. The addition of Escorts launching torpedoes or AI submarines launching them I think relaly causes one ot adjust your battle tactics.


MORE MORE MORE


It is to bad we can not change the game in such a way as to allow al sides in the war to fight it out while the player simply does his job with a random but calculated outcome so that in some case either side might win the war. That would sure make for an interesting campaign.

[TorpX]

If you're talking about playing a sub, I think the torp launching enemy subs would be far more dangerous. You might not realize you are being attacked, until it's over. With a surface ship, the shells are more of a threat.



It is to bad we can not change the game in such a way as to allow al sides in the war to fight it out while the player simply does his job with a random but calculated outcome so that in some case either side might win the war. That would sure make for an interesting campaign.

If you mean a fictional, randomized campaign, I agree totally. It is too easy to go to point X, at time Y, and get some capitol ships. No wonder tonnages are high.

I had an idea for this sort of thing, but the amount of work and skill required to develop it is beyond me.

[Moin]

Added some allied DDs to the DL above!
I changed a bit the fire angel for the torps of all DDs!

Btw: Would also be interested in AI subs with this mod! Thanks again for this launcher!

[jhapprich]

isnt there a mission "submarine" for german quick missions in my mod? there should be a submerged ALFA AI, a surfaced Alfa AI and a(still to mod completely) surface permit AI.

add: i just checked the download, its the previous version, new mod with basic ai subs to do some modding on your own:

http://www.gamefront.com/files/24410898/AITorpedolauncher.rar

ps Moin, how exactly did you change the firing angle and what did happen then?

best regards JH

[Moin]

Hi,
I only limited the fire angel of the torpedos! The torpedos itself running as before straight to the target!
The reason was, that sometimes torpedos bounced off the hull at some of the new DDs!
I dont want to move the launcher for some ships with a wider fuselage or edit your mod files!
So I changed the fire angel for some to:
left: 240-300
right: 60-120

For the Fletcher:
left: 260-280
right: 80-100

[keltos01]

they run straight WITHOUT descending, which is controled by the particle generator. currently, i have added a new type93 double launcher to the guns_radars.dat that fires one torpedo at a time and is assigned to a M*-node class "cannon". to add the launcher to an existing ship, you need to edit the *.dat and *.sim. the T*-nodes need to be renamed M*, and you have to add the corresponding obj_turret to the sim. in the *.equ-file, the T*-entry must be reassigned "M*",and the "Torpedolauncher93double" will replace the connected weapon. i will upload the file today, and there will be a demo-mission with a Permit-class lookalike Black Swan with both torpedo launchers for surface and submerged combat. there will also be the single files necessary for the ship editing only,no further modding by me.this way, you will have the opportunity to edit the stock ships and to implement the launcher in your own mods.ps don`t get this wrong, but personally i am particulary happy having solved this, for now i am able to moke ai-subs a real threat in the cold war mod. thanks thedarkwraith for the initial idea!ps anyone knows how to make screenshots in win7? wanted to add pictures, but print screen wont work...hmmm:hmmm:

Just... A-Mazing !!!

:yeah:

keltos

[Bonden]

I just use CTRL+F11 in game

[Kermit the Frog]

I want to thank you guys for your hard work. After changing crew ratings, *.sns settings, and adding torpedo, we have really terrifying destroyers. Personally I also added 50% chance of escort presence by lone traveling ships. Now "Sonar Contact sir!" really rises heart beat.

When I was looking some info about Jap. destroyers I found this:

Battle of Badung Strait.

One of the most unbelievable (night) battle I ever heard of. 4 IJN destroyers defending 2 slow moving, damaged transport ships, against:
3 cruisers, 7 destroyers, 2 submarines and 20 aircrafts.

Allied losses: 1 destroyer sunk(long lance), cruiser and destroyer damaged
IJN losses: 3 damaged destroyers

The first Allied vessels to engage were the submarines USS Seawolf and HMS Truant. Both attacked the Japanese convoy on 18 February, but did no damage and were driven off by depth charges from Japanese destroyers. Later that day, 20 planes of the United States Army Air Forces attacked the convoy but succeeded only in damaging the transport Sagami Maru.

The Japanese were aware that their invasion convoy was likely to be attacked again, so they retreated north as soon as possible. The cruiser Nagara and the destroyers Wakaba, Hatsushimo and Nenohi were well away and took no part in the action. The last ships to leave were the two transports, each escorted by two destroyers. Sasago Maru was escorted by Asashio and Oshio; the heavily damaged Sagami Maru was escorted by Michishio and Arashio.

The first Allied group—consisting of the cruisers HNLMS De Ruyter and Java and the destroyers USS John D. Ford, Pope, and HNLMS Piet Hein—sighted the Japanese in Badung Strait at about 22:00 and opened fire at 22:25 on 19 February. No damage was done in this exchange of fire, and the two Dutch cruisers continued through the strait to the northeast, to give the destroyers a free hand to engage with torpedoes. Then Piet Hein, Pope and John D. Ford came into range. At 22:40, a Long Lance torpedo from Asashio hit Piet Hein, sinking the Dutch destroyer immediately. Asashio and Oshio then exchanged gunfire with Pope and John D. Ford, forcing the two American destroyers to retire to the southeast instead of following the cruisers to the northeast.

... I believe, that IJN forces, are strongly underestimated in stock SH4.

[TorpX]

Battle of Badung Strait.

One of the most unbelievable (night) battle I ever heard of.

That's pretty much what I thought when I read about the Battle of the Java Sea. The Allied forces were weak, inexperienced, and lacked coordination. 1942 was a very unhappy time for the Allies.

... I believe, that IJN forces, are strongly underestimated in stock SH4.

Agreed.

[Kermit the Frog]

Hi.
I put together and slightly improved (I like to believe so) mods of Keltos, jhapprich, and thedarkwraith

Biggest problem was (I belive) targeting. Barrel pointed 1 [rad] right works when DD's firing port side, to target moving paralell. I tested it on mission with single BB Tennessee only, and result was poor.

I added torpedo turret (4 tubes) in guns_radars. I pointed torpgunbarrel at 0° and added rotation controller to torpgunbarrel in guns_radars.dat (like the one in radar) with restricted rotations -/+ 12 deg, and rotation speed 1 [deg/sec] and inertia = 0. Now DD is shooting something similar to spread :-)

US BB Tennessee (Early War) sinks after 4~6 minutes of fight.

I'm not uploading since I didn't get (and didn't ask about) any permission from Authors of this brilliant mod, and maybe they want to make it in their own way?

Just a hint from me.

Greetings

[LGN1]

Hi,

would the concept of this mod also works in SH3 or does the mod make use of features that are not present in SH3? From taking a quick look at it, I think it should work in SH3... :hmmm:

Regards, LGN1

[jhapprich]

Kermit, could you upload your mod? i would really like to test it

[Caustic]

Heck, we still need IJN and USN torpedoes for ships. Pls continue.
:up:

[iambecomelife]

Would like to add these latest modifications to my WWI mod "Wolves of the Kaiser" please - would be fun to have the player stalking a battlecruiser, pre-Dreadnought, etc - only to get a nasty surprise.:rotfl2:

I'll make a few tweaks to simulate the fixed torpedo mounts on most WWI capital ships.