When your own mod bites you in the "six"

[Bubblehead1980]

April 26, 1944 off Palau Islands. Caught a convoy leaving harbor at Peleliu at 1800 hours, tracked ahead for night surface attack on four ship, four escort convoy. After moon set around 0200, we rushed in when the port escort left station and went way out search the flank.At 2000 yards off two big freighters, fired 3 each.The third Mark 14 however circled back but this was not realized, we were already ahead flank and making a turn to get out of the area before torpedoes hit when BOOM, torpedo slammed into stern, destroyed aft torpedo room bulkhead and heavily damaged the engine rooms, water coming in.

Unfortunately the game is unrealistic in the sense the player sub can survive a torpedo hit.So i let the boat go down until it reached crush depth(Balao clasS) meanwhile all torpedoes hit home, sinking two ships while escorts rushed in unleashing many charges as we sunk.

I upped the chance of circle runners with my mods, it came back to get me. :arrgh!:

[Admiral Halsey]

Someone needs to make a mod where the crew alerts you when you have a circle runner.(I have read stories where the crew either heard or spotted the torpedo heading back towards them so it isn't unrealistic.)

[Bubblehead1980]

Someone needs to make a mod where the crew alerts you when you have a circle runner.(I have read stories where the crew either heard or spotted the torpedo heading back towards them so it isn't unrealistic.)


I agree but doubt its possible.

[Admiral Halsey]

I agree but doubt its possible.

Sad but true.

[Rockin Robbins]

That's the problem with having circle runners in the game. In R/L the sonar operator's only job when firing torpedoes is to track the torpedoes. He could tell if they were running true on vector, or whether they strayed from the set course. And he could tell in an instant that they had a circle runner. Trust me, he'd announce that instantly.

Now if the sub were submerged, the torpedo would be set fifteen or 20 feet deep and that would be the exact depth of juicy parts of the very slow-moving submarine. Warning or not, there's a good chance of eating your own torpedo.

But in your scenario, unless you're running the torpedo on the surface, there's about zero chance of getting hit. You were running away on the surface. The torpedo should have passed under. After all, it's very difficult to hit even a DD because torps tend to pass under. But they hit your sub every time? Makesanosensa.

So two things: you would know in R/L that you had a circle runner. If you were surfaced, the circle runner should be harmless.

This is the opposite of Ducimus' achieving realistic player behavior by unrealistic events. This is producing unrealistic player behavior by realistic events.

[Admiral Halsey]

That's the problem with having circle runners in the game. In R/L the sonar operator's only job when firing torpedoes is to track the torpedoes. He could tell if they were running true on vector, or whether they strayed from the set course. And he could tell in an instant that they had a circle runner. Trust me, he'd announce that instantly.

Now if the sub were submerged, the torpedo would be set fifteen or 20 feet deep and that would be the exact depth of juicy parts of the very slow-moving submarine. Warning or not, there's a good chance of eating your own torpedo.

But in your scenario, unless you're running the torpedo on the surface, there's about zero chance of getting hit. You were running away on the surface. The torpedo should have passed under. After all, it's very difficult to hit even a DD because torps tend to pass under. But they hit your sub every time? Makesanosensa.

So two things: you would know in R/L that you had a circle runner. If you were surfaced, the circle runner should be harmless.

This is the opposite of Ducimus' achieving realistic player behavior by unrealistic events. This is producing unrealistic player behavior by realistic events.

He could have accidentally turned the magnetic exploder on.

[Bubblehead1980]

That's the problem with having circle runners in the game. In R/L the sonar operator's only job when firing torpedoes is to track the torpedoes. He could tell if they were running true on vector, or whether they strayed from the set course. And he could tell in an instant that they had a circle runner. Trust me, he'd announce that instantly.

Now if the sub were submerged, the torpedo would be set fifteen or 20 feet deep and that would be the exact depth of juicy parts of the very slow-moving submarine. Warning or not, there's a good chance of eating your own torpedo.

But in your scenario, unless you're running the torpedo on the surface, there's about zero chance of getting hit. You were running away on the surface. The torpedo should have passed under. After all, it's very difficult to hit even a DD because torps tend to pass under. But they hit your sub every time? Makesanosensa.

So two things: you would know in R/L that you had a circle runner. If you were surfaced, the circle runner should be harmless.

This is the opposite of Ducimus' achieving realistic player behavior by unrealistic events. This is producing unrealistic player behavior by realistic events.

All depends on the torpedo depth.I don't ID ships at night with the auto ID unless it's moonlight and can clearly see them, I just label them target 1 and target 2.I could see they were large merchants so set torpedo depth to 10 feet.Sometimes I set them shallow as possible, helps flooding with the longer sinking times mod for TMO.

Surfaced a circle runner always harmless? Zero chance of getting hit? I have to disagree. For sure, it is known Tang and Tulibee were sunk by circle runners, while on the surface.

USS Pollack had a circle runner(was unaware) which was a Mark 14 that ran deeper than set, still set off the magnetic exploder when under Pollack, which knocked out power etc for a good 10 minutes I believe it was, while it needed to be hauling away from the convoy just fired on it.Torpedo had ran to depth set, Pollack would have been lost.

Sure several of the others lost to unknown causes were destroyed by circle runners.

Barb had a few herself but they detected them in time, sometimes thanks to the sonar listening to them but it was by no means a guarantee.

[Rockin Robbins]

You're right, if they were set shallow, and they very well could be as insurance against the deep runners, they could well tag a sub. But the most hazardous position is a circle runner while you're submerged and can't get out of your own way. I'll bet that's the way most of them got tagged. A 7 knot sub vs a 31 knot torpedo is a bad mismatch.

[Bubblehead1980]

You're right, if they were set shallow, and they very well could be as insurance against the deep runners, they could well tag a sub. But the most hazardous position is a circle runner while you're submerged and can't get out of your own way. I'll bet that's the way most of them got tagged. A 7 knot sub vs a 31 knot torpedo is a bad mismatch.


Yep. What bugs me is I usually watch for them, more so with Mark 18 as its more prone to the circle runs but the 14 will do it, one time i dont pay attention it cost me.I just pulled off a night surface attack in philippine sea in December 1943.Definitely remembered to check the attack map, supposed it can substitute for sonar or watch crew informing me. Took out two ships with four torpedoes from stern tubes, gotta love it.

[agrims]

Once they discovered the circle runner problem, they shifted their SOP to fire and dive. Just like the Germans with their acoustic torps, they would dive and go as silent as possible to avoid the torp tracking them.

[Rockin Robbins]

Yes, the American acoustic policy was much better. The procedure was not to launch acoustic torpedoes from any depth less than 200'. The torpedo couldn't go that deep. It wasn't necessary to shut down engines and become a sitting duck, a factor that probably contributed to the fact that the Germans didn't sink a single target with their acoustic torpedoes while American had several successes. One of those successes was by the SS Kraken near the end of the war.

I even use the torpedoes' homing capability for my advantage. I'm at 200' running silent and the escorts? Well there's one prime piece of real estate, and that's directly above me. If I can get the escort and the torpedo to attempt to occupy that space simultaneously I'll probably hear a very satisfying boom.

So I let the torpedo get 400 to 1000 yards away and hit ahead emergency. The torpedo will do a 180 and head for my position. I've set the depth for on the surface and as soon as I verify the course of the torpedo will take it directly overhead, I cut back to ahead slow. Now an escort making a run already has a Cutie aimed in his direction and nearby. Since they slow down for precision drops they're sitting ducks for my Cutie on a Leash.

If nothing happens, wait for the cutie to be 400 to 1000 yards away, another spurt of power to turn it around and re-roll the dice. I've done this with a single torpedo over 10 minutes. It's fishing at its best!

[Rockin Robbins]

By the way, ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch, ouch, boom! Being harrassed by DDs. I decided to ambush the two battleships that are supposed to bombard Henderson Field on the night of October 14, 1942. Running RSRD so stuff should happen according to script.

Nope. No BBs at all, just a convoy of a million DDs accompanying several transports at high speed away from Henderson far enough that I can't get there. That's what I get for cheating!

So I make a high speed run toward the transports and of course, pick up 5 DDs as a tail. Decided I'd take a poll on how enthusiastic they were so I dove deep and observed their activities. Not too aggressive. The circled my last reported position. Back to periscope depth.

We'll try a down the throat shot to take one out. So I put 'em behind me, popped up the observation scope and ordered ahead full. They followed as nicely as puppies on a leash. Set torpedoes for fast, running on the surface and to go straight out on the 180 bearing. Then I waited. Had to reduce speed to entice 'em or something. Then they started the charge. I want to ahead emergency and waited until the range was around 500 yards. Fire 7! Fire 8 five seconds later. 7 impacts the DD and doesn't explode, 8 blows the stern off the DD and he's down!

I went deep to give 'em time to reflect and regroup. Then back to periscope depth for a repeat. Same deal, set 'em up on the 180, wait until they're 500 yards (13 second torpedo run) away and shoot two. Two torpedoes malfunctioned, turning to the left of their target and motors shut off. I dove and repeated the reflection period.

Back up for another go. Same exact result--two defective torpedoes and me in severe danger as a result, I squirmed and twisted to depth and took stock. Six torpedoes, all should have hit and exploded. Instead I have one boom, one dud and four that just went loco.

Thank you Bubblehead! I thought you were my friend?:wah:

[Rockin Robbins]

Here's the attack map screenshot showing the two torpedoes shown lying on an angle, shut down beside each other.
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/SH4Img2013-08-26_130717_525_zpsac82fdf7.png

[TorpX]

I didn't know torpedoes in this game ever just "shut down". I thought they were either duds, circle runners, prematures, or went wild. Interesting.

[Bubblehead1980]

I didn't know torpedoes in this game ever just "shut down". I thought they were either duds, circle runners, prematures, or went wild. Interesting.


Well sure when they run out o fuel or battery power.Listen carefully can usually here the end of run explosions after they sink deep enough and explode.

[TorpX]

Well sure when they run out o fuel or battery power.Listen carefully can usually here the end of run explosions after they sink deep enough and explode.

Yes, I know that. I meant just stopping as a result of a malfunction.


Here's the attack map screenshot showing the two torpedoes shown lying on an angle, shut down beside each other.