[TEC] Real navigation Tutorials

[Sjizzle]

in this thread i will try to show u how to fix your position on the map without using the navigator From the game with TDW's UI and MagUI when DrJones will release the new version of the MagUI.
The math and others calculation are same with both UI's but there are difrent sextant.
Remember

we don't have a real sextant to calculate the sextant index error and make some other correction so we can be 100% accurate

First Tutorial:

Finding The Latitude

1. Noon Latitude

"Local Noon" is the exact time when the Sun reaches its highest point in the sky. This is also the time that it crosses the vertical, imaginary line, that astronomers call the "meridian".
This is a very simple method enabling the observer to determine latitude by measuring the maximum altitude of the sun (or any other object).
No accurate time measurement is required. The altitude of the sun passes through a flat maximum approximately(see noon longitude) at the moment of upper meridian passage (local apparent noon, LAN) when the
GP of the sun has the same longitude as the observer and is either north or south of him, depending on the declination of the sun and observer’s geographic latitude. The observer’s latitude is easily calculated by forming the algebraic sum or
difference of the declination and observed zenith distance z (90°-Ho) of the sun, depending on whether the sun is north or south of the observer.

http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/871a/ww5m3gn51b09wawfg.jpg

now let's see this in game all what wee need is the alamanac from 1939 - 1945
an online almanac can be found here Click (http://www.tecepe.com.br/scripts/AlmanacPagesISAPI.dll)

to measure the sun angle click on the navigator the sextant and u will see the screen
http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/44da/6h8granegkx2d1kfg.jpg

after that click on Enable Sextant and align the te sextant to the water line ( horizont )

http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/db39/7sm3e2kc629x51lfg.jpg

now search for the sun and measure the angle of the sun

http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/f238/2q18citxl2tt780fg.jpg

http://attila-kevin.de/var/resizes/Silent-Hunter-5/Runing%20Fix%201.jpg?m=1374863907
as we see we have the sun at 42.54 degree no let's do some math to find the latitude
first we need to find Zenith Distance = 90 - 42.54 we convert the 90 degree to 89.60 - 42.54 = 47.06 is the Zenith Distance
now let's see the sun declination at 1939. sept. 01 12:00 PM
http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/0eb2/b441c542r6csgt2fg.jpg
http://attila-kevin.de/var/resizes/Silent-Hunter-5/Runing%20Fix.jpg?m=1374863908
Sun declination is N 8. 31 so now let's see we are in the same hemisphere ( N ) but the sun is belove us so we apply the
Latitude = Zenith Distance + Declination
Latitude = 47.06 + 8.31
Latitude = 55.37

now let's what the navigator say about our latitude

http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/7a0b/n1nu0xn11u2kedvfg.jpg

whoop 55.37 N pretty nice ha ?
if u find your latitude then u can find your way home or your destination at sea :D

when DrJones will finis the MagUI new version i will show u also with that UI mod.

PS.

if somebody have an 1939 - 1945 .PDF almanac and can share it with use i really apreciate it thx.

http://attila-kevin.de/var/resizes/Silent-Hunter-5/Runing%20Fix%202.jpg?m=1374863907

[Sjizzle]

Second Tutorial

Mark our position on the map and find the Longitude

Remember

we don't have a real sextant to calculate the sextant index error and make some other correction so we can be 100% accurate

Let's start with measuring the sun angle
http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/2834/18yh17mcjmx5nvnfg.jpg
Now we do the math to find the Lat.
Zenith distance = 89.6 – 42.51 = 47.09
Lat. = Zenith Distance + Declination
Lat. = 47.09 + 8.31 = 55.40N

http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/a0ce/h1iirl37a5e2flifg.jpg


u can download this spreadsheet from here Download (http://www.backbearing.com/excel.html)

(http://www.backbearing.com/excel.html)
Each degree on the game map is 120 km.
http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/7d53/b1x5d8dgcqg2cvtfg.jpg


Now let’s see how to market on the map without the navigator help
Each degree on the game map is 120 km.
We do again some math 120 : 60 = 2km
We know that assumed Lat. is 55 but how we find that 40 simple 40 x 2 = 80km
( when u draw from the bottom to the top u multiply and when u draw it from the top to the bottom u divide )
Let’s draw that 80 km on the map.



http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/b4d9/n25m0n7cnhjb3x2fg.jpg

Now let’s find the Long
Open that excel work sheet and look at GHA there is 259.57 and to LHA where is 20.00
359.57 – 20 = 339.57 – 360 = -20.43
Long = 20.43E
We know that we are at Long. 20E now 43:2 = 26.5km let’s draw it on the map
( When u draw it from the west to east left side to right side u multiply and when u draw it from east to the west right to the left u divide)

http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/32af/ihp38wyks1p2ra2fg.jpg

http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/b478/m2kdzfcldy5dsu3fg.jpg

Now let’s see what the navigator say as u see the navigator calculation is

Lat. 55.41N and Long. 20.47E so we are not far as i said we can’t be 100% accurate cos we don’t know the sextant index error and dip and other correction
http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/0368/sxk8d90a149x37lfg.jpg

this can be my error or the game error so we can not chek where is the u-boat to see wich one is correct but i think that is pretty good and give more realism to the game.

I think that the navigator can be removed from the game if somebody wanna play hardcore and mark his position on the Map :P
on bad weather and fogy day u are really lost at the sea if u play hardcore.

[Sjizzle]

Reserved 2

[Sjizzle]

Reserved 3

[gap]

Thanks Sjizzle :up:

By the way, I have just found this:

http://www.allaboutsailing.co.uk/navigation-articles/87-methods-of-position-fixing

P.S: if you need for more reserved posts, I will happily delete this one :)

[Sjizzle]

thanks gap :up:
no need to delete :D
now i am working on celestila fix position wich is a bit complicated ....
wich one need some math knowledge :yep:


Edit:
HO. 229 book

A very accurate method. It is produced in a six volume series. This course uses volume 3. The tables are used with the Nautical Almanac to obtain elements necessary to obtain position at sea. It is a straight forward method and requires no mathematical calculation beyond addition and subtraction of degrees and minutes and decimals of minutes. A popular method.

idk if they have it in WW II

[volodya61]

..idk if they have it in WW II

I'm sure they had it.. they had it since 1767 AD..
look here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nautical_almanac

Thanks for this great work.. I think it's time to me to learn it finally :D..

[Sjizzle]

136 pages only with tables :o

http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/852c/ci9s5xp4c4gl298fg.jpg

[gap]

HO. 229 book

idk if they have it in WW II

I am afraid not :-?

According to the following link, the particular nautical almanac that you are talking about was published sometime between 60's and 80's:

http://fer3.com/arc/m2.aspx/HO-229249-publication-dates-LuAbel-mar-2011-g15994

[gap]

Some useful navigation resources:

http://www.offshoreblue.com/navigation/

P.S: most of the documents are in pdf format. If only we could open them in game... Unfortunately I think this topic has been commented by TDW already, and IIRC it is not possible :-?

[gap]

an informative short article about the workings of a sextant :03:

http://www.tecepe.com.br/scripts/AlmanacPagesISAPI.dll

Sorry for hijacking the thread :D

[LemonA]

in this thread i will try to show u how to fix your position on the map without using the navigator From the game.

Frist Tutorial:

Coastal navigation running fix


Running fix needs also known time from 1st LOP to 2. LOP, steady course and steady speed to calculate your traveled distance and direction between 1. LOP and 2. LOP.

[gap]

Running fix needs also known time from 1st LOP to 2. LOP, steady course and steady speed to calculate your traveled distance and direction between 1. LOP and 2. LOP.

from allaboutsailing.co.uk, whose full address I have posted below (hope Sjizzle won't mind if I quote the whole paragraph here):

Running Fix
The running fix (or transferred position line) is a method to determine your position if you only have 1 visual reference point (like a single lighthouse). The methodology is as follows;


As you approach the single point, take a bearing on it with your hand held compass. Make a note of the log, and course being steered.

Once there is an appreciable change in the angle to the object, take another bearing and note the new log reading.

Plot the 1st bearing, and anywhere along this position line, make a mark and from this point, plot the course steered. Measure down this track the distance travelled (the difference between the 2 log reading). and make a second mark.

Transfer your first position line, keeping it parallel, down to your second mark.

Where this transferred line crosses the second compass bearing is your position.


Consider the accuracy of this method? How well was the course steered? How accurate is the log? Was there any tidal streams of leeway?
These can all be factored in to improve the fix, but generally, if the distance between the 2 bearings is not too large, it will be accurate enough.

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/8484/q6bm.jpg (http://www.allaboutsailing.co.uk/images/positionfixing/running%20fix.jpg)

[Sjizzle]

this is a good one
http://navsoft.com/Celestial_Navigation_Tutorial.pdf (http://navsoft.com/Celestial_Navigation_Tutorial.pdf)

[Sjizzle]

Running fix needs also known time from 1st LOP to 2. LOP, steady course and steady speed to calculate your traveled distance and direction between 1. LOP and 2. LOP.


A fix is called a running fix when one or more of the LOPs used to obtain it is an LOP advanced or retrieved over time. In order to get a fix the LOP must cross at an angle, the closer to 90° the better. This means the observations must have different azimuths. During the day, if only the Sun is visible, it is possible to get an LOP from the observation but not a fix as another LOP is needed. What may be done is take a first sight which yields one LOP and, some hours later, when the Sun's azimuth has changed substantially, take a second sight which yields a second LOP. Knowing the distance and course sailed in the interval, the first LOP can be advanced to its new position and the intersection with the second LOP yields a running fix.

[oakdesign]

As already stated somewhere else I served as a Navigationsmaat on the Germany Navy Vessel Minenkampfboot "Passau" from 1989-1993. That said I really like the Idea doing the navigation stuff on my own instead of using the ingame Navigator.

For Terrestial Naviagation I'm currently following the this idea.

With OHII we already have navigation buoys. But not visible on the map so useless to use for a terrestial fix.

All buoys positions could be extracted from the OHII Harbour.mis file. With the position of some of those i.e the last ones leaving Wilhemshaven and add them as supermarks through TWS's Ship Journal I'll have the buoys position on the Nav Map station and could use them for a running fix or a cross bearing fix.

[Sjizzle]

i hope that this week end or next week i can finis the tutorials (busy with RL and work )

[Sjizzle]

First tutorial is done see post #1

[vdr1981]

First tutorial is done see post #1

:up::up::up::rock:

[THE_MASK]

Will this work with the Large Optics for TDW UI mod ?

[Sjizzle]

Will this work with the Large Optics for TDW UI mod ?


i didn't try it but i will try and will report back

[Jaystew]

Some useful navigation resources:

http://www.offshoreblue.com/navigation/

P.S: most of the documents are in pdf format. If only we could open them in game... Unfortunately I think this topic has been commented by TDW already, and IIRC it is not possible :-?

WOW THIS SITE HERE IS A GOLD MINE MAN :)

TY TY TY

[Jaystew]

Anybody know where we can get nautical charts of the Atlantic and Baltic?

[Sjizzle]

Tutorial nr 2 is ready fo more details see post #2 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2091112&postcount=2)

[Defiance]

Well sjizzle,

Thanks to the kind help of yourself sober vdr and theberbster to name a few, i am back to being mod-stable

That means i'm going to have to get to grips with this :up:

I expect to waste billions of reichmarks on u-boat replacements though :D

Cheers

[Sjizzle]

Well sjizzle,

Thanks to the kind help of yourself sober vdr and theberbster to name a few, i am back to being mod-stable

That means i'm going to have to get to grips with this :up:

I expect to waste billions of reichmarks on u-boat replacements though :D

Cheers


if u have any question feel free to ask and if i can help then i help
now i working on navigation via stars
i hope that i will finish this week ...

[Sjizzle]

Anybody know where we can get nautical charts of the Atlantic and Baltic?


take a look here is better then nothing :)

http://www.bsh.de/en/Products/Charts/Nautical_charts/index.jsp

[Jaystew]

I cant seem to get any of the charts to load. LOL :(

[gap]

First tutorial is done see post #1

Tutorial nr 2 is ready fo more details see post #2 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=2091112&postcount=2)

:sunny: :up:

[vdr1981]

@Sober

after some testing with large optics i have 2.1 degree error in measurements
i think that large optics is not compatible with tdw's sextant ...
i will do more test
Any news regarding this issue? I'm preparing new update of TWoS megamod but I'll remove large optic if it isn't compatible with TDW real nav...

[Sjizzle]

Any news regarding this issue? I'm preparing new update of TWoS megamod but I'll remove large optic if it isn't compatible with TDW real nav...


yea i did more tst and that angle error seems to be my fault .... i tested with new monitor and screen resolution and forgot to change the large optics reso patch :D
sorry for my mistake

[vdr1981]

yea i did more tst and that angle error seems to be my fault .... i tested with new monitor and screen resolution and forgot to change the large optics reso patch :D
sorry for my mistake

Cpy, tnx for the info! :up:

[franz_the_cat]

Can the polar star to navigate use in SH5?

[Sjizzle]

Can the polar star to navigate use in SH5?

the celestial sphere is accurate in sh5 so u can navigate using the north star ( Polaris )

[franz_the_cat]

As you navigierts night ?
I've heard some navigiren with the moon, the wärd but good because the moon is everywhere the polaris only in the northern half?
Wlchen star one takes in the southern half?
I go against the date a star and choose what x matching sun from the moon or navigate .
is this ok?
http://www.tecepe.com.br/scripts/AlmanacPagesISAPI.dll/pages?date=09%2F27%2F1939

where the clock-time on the list?

[Sjizzle]

As you navigierts night ?
I've heard some navigiren with the moon, the wärd but good because the moon is everywhere the polaris only in the northern half?
Wlchen star one takes in the southern half?
I go against the date a star and choose what x matching sun from the moon or navigate .
is this ok?
http://www.tecepe.com.br/scripts/AlmanacPagesISAPI.dll/pages?date=09%2F27%2F1939

where the clock-time on the list?

tbh i don't understand what u mean here can u send a pm in german

[franz_the_cat]

Ok.(the google translator is not the best)

h (12)is the time on the list ?

And xx.xx + 8.xxx=XXX is fix (for all luminaries orbs on the list ).

i dont understant.
as we see we have the sun at 42.54 degree no let's do some math to find the latitude
first we need to find Zenith Distance = 90 - 42.54 we convert the 90 degree to 89.60 - 42.54 = 47.06 is the Zenith Distance
now let's see the sun declination at 1939. sept. 01 12:00 PM

Is the mathematik per tangens with faktor 1x (expects that the sextant un )



Where is sheet exel ????

http://abload.de/img/rn_tutorial3d4kdm.png (http://abload.de/image.php?img=rn_tutorial3d4kdm.png)


http://abload.de/img/35mpi7a6nbof.jpg (http://abload.de/image.php?img=35mpi7a6nbof.jpg)

Waht is this numbers? Waht is thes numbers of SH5 ?

http://abload.de/img/sh5_seq001_0000004hkfg.png (http://abload.de/image.php?img=sh5_seq001_0000004hkfg.png)

[franz_the_cat]

Bild "sh5_seq001_0000004hkfg.png" anzeigen. (http://abload.de/image.php?img=sh5_seq001_0000004hkfg.png)


i dont understant.
as we see we have the sun at 42.54 degree no let's do some math to find the latitude
first we need to find Zenith Distance = 90 - 42.54 we convert the 90 degree to 89.60 - 42.54 = 47.06 is the Zenith Distance
now let's see the sun declination at 1939. sept. 01 12:00 PM

how can I calculate tihs with the windows 8 calkulator ? is the sine cosine table to use?

[Sjizzle]

what i see there u didn't measured the angel :D

take a look at this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWGOlpj4YwE) maybe u will understand it better how to calculate

[franz_the_cat]

I have a few Looked upon me videos.
How to push the sun next to the horizon?

http://abload.de/img/ytbrezn61fmfz3.jpg (http://abload.de/image.php?img=ytbrezn61fmfz3.jpg)

[Sjizzle]

I have a few Looked upon me videos.
How to push the sun next to the horizon?



this ANM is only a concept is not a mod and if u look at my first post there is only for tdw's ui the tutorial cos the ANM for magui is not rdy yet u can use the uzo as sextant and calculate your position but the ANM mod is under construction idk when DrJones will manage to finish it in a few days i will make a short video how to use the Magui uzo sextant !

[franz_the_cat]

this ANM is only a concept is not a mod and if u look at my first post there is only for tdw's ui the tutorial cos the ANM for magui is not rdy yet u can use the uzo as sextant and calculate your position but the ANM mod is under construction idk when DrJones will manage to finish it in a few days i will make a short video how to use the Magui uzo sextant !



I'm looking forward to the expansion:subsim:

[Oby]

Zenith Distance = 90 - 42.54 we convert the 90 degree to 89.60

How do we know that this is exactly 89.60? Is there any rule for that conversion?:salute:

[DieReeperbahn]

89.60 is the same as 90.00, just a different way of writing it because .00 is not 100 as it is with math. It's an expression of time - 60 minutes.

I'm really having problems with the sextant in RealNav mod in TWOS. When I shoot the suns altitude i get a lower figure then what i should be seeing. 20.43 instead of 27.7. Is it because of the screen resolution or something else? And does the latest update fix this?

[palmic]

Great video about langitude - it should be in the first post as more info! :)

Q1: How do we know on which hemisphere we are?

Q2: Where did you get that 20 LHA for longitude??
I just dont get it, there's no explanation, just open excel, there is 20 LHA.. i mean what? :)
It seems to me like i have to watch sun vertical angle periodically and when i find its on zenit, get the time..
Then somehow calculate longitude by substituing difference of sun zenit time from GMT noon and dividing somehow, but its not described here..

I dont want to use some scripted xls, i want to know how can i get LHA.

[Sjizzle]

[QUOTE=palmic;2392549]Great video about langitude - it should be in the first post as more info! :)

Q1: How do we know on which hemisphere we are?55.37 N is North hemisphere cos after the 55.33 is N if was S u where in the south hemisphere also if u are above equator u are in the north hemisphere if u are below equator u are in the South hemisphere

Q2: Where did you get that 20 LHA for longitude??that come automatic from that spreadsheet file it's calculate it alone.... u need to use that file or a Almanac to find the declination, index error, LHA, without a almanac the calculation is incorrect
I just dont get it, there's no explanation, just open excel, there is 20 LHA.. i mean what? :)
It seems to me like i have to watch sun vertical angle periodically and when i find its on zenit, get the time..
Then somehow calculate longitude by substituing difference of sun zenit time from GMT noon and dividing somehow, but its not described here..

I dont want to use some scripted xls, i want to know how can i get LHA.go here (http://www.tecepe.com.br/scripts/AlmanacPagesISAPI.dll) for online almanac to calculate your position.....
local noon is described in post #1.

PS. u can use also Stellarium a great software

[lm17]

Awesome work people, trying to make this work on my side to join the party :up:

[palmic]

[B][COLOR=Lime]55.37 N is North hemisphere cos after the 55.33 is

55.37 N is the result of latitude calculation.
You need to know which hemispehere you are on before this calculation (to decide if you will be adding, or subtracting and how )
How do you now initially you haven't cross equator if you are completely lost?

that come automatic from that spreadsheet file it's calculate it alone.... u need to use that file or a Almanac to find the declination

Sorry but if i would have to use some excel, i would rather turn my realism to show my position itself, i would like to use only almanac or whatever else what was available at 1939 u-boat ;)
How to get LHA from Almanac? I want to find even longitude for myself, that Excel needs to calculate it somehow, but i haven't found how :hmmm:

Maybe i can ask even another way:
1) Are we able to get longitude in another time, than when the sun is at highest position? (I expect no)
2) Can i get longitude by knowledge which GMT time is the sun at highest position? I expect so, because it should be something like +15 degrees E for every hour after 12:00AM or +15 degrees W for every hours before 12:00AM minus GHA

Thank you for quick response! :salute:

[Sjizzle]

55.37 N is the result of latitude calculation.
You need to know which hemispehere you are on before this calculation (to decide if you will be adding, or subtracting and how )

How do you now initially you haven't cross equator if you are completely lost?

that come automatic from that spreadsheet file it's calculate it alone.... u need to use that file or a Almanac to find the declination, index error, LHA, without a almanac the calculation is incorrect



Sorry but if i would have to use some excel, i would rather turn my realism to show my position itself, i would like to use only almanac or whatever else what was available at 1939 u-boat ;)
How to get LHA from Almanac? I want to find even longitude for myself, that Excel needs to calculate it somehow, but i haven't found how :hmmm:

Thank you for quick response! :salute:

before u calculate your celestial fix u always have a dead recognition fix and u know which hemisphere are u ..... so u are not complete lost at all
u know where u was last time before the celestial fix ... u always need to make a dead recognition fix ....so not complete lost ...... and also a tip most of the german uboat mission was in the north hemisphere ......

Local Hour Angle (LHA). In astro navigation, we need to know the position of a celestial body relative to our own position.
LHA is the angle BNU on the Earth’s surface which corresponds to the angle ZPX in the Celestial sphere. In other words, it is the angle between the meridian of the observer and the meridian of the geographical position of the celestial body (GP).
Due to the Earth’s rotation, the Sun moves through 15o of longitude in 1 hour and it moves through 15 minutes of arc in 1 minute of time. So the angle ZPX can be measured in terms of time and for this reason, it is know as the Local Hour Angle.
LHA is measured westwards from the observer’s meridian and can be expressed in terms of either angular distance or time. For example, at noon (GMT) the Sun’s GP will be on the Greenwich Meridian (0o). If the time at an observer’s position is 2 hours and 3 minutes after noon, then the angular distance between the observer’s meridian of longitude and the Greenwich Meridian must be (2 x15o ) + (3x 15’) = 30o 45’. Because it is after noon at the observer’s position, the longitude of that position must be to the East of the Greenwich Meridian since the Earth rotates from West to East. Therefore the observer’s longitude must be 30o 45’ East and since LHA is measured westwards from the observer’s meridian, the LHA must also be 30o 45’. However, it should be noted that as the Earth continues to rotate eastwards, the GP of the Sun will continue to move westwards so the LHA at the observer’s position will be continually changing.
Greenwich Hour Angle (GHA). As discussed above, the angle between two meridians of Longitude can be expressed as an hour angle. The hour angle between the Greenwich Meridian and the meridian of a celestial body is known as the Greenwich Hour Angle.


Rules for calculating LHA:
Long East, LHA = GHA + LONG (- 360o as necessary)
Long West, LHA = GHA – LONG (+ 360o as necessary) Example 1. : If Long. is 90oE. and GHA is 300o
Then LHA = GHA + LONG -360o
= 300o + 90o = 390o – 360o = 30o
Example 2: if Long. is 90oW. and GHA is 45,o we have:
LHA = 45o – 90o = -45o + 360o = 315o
Example 3: If your longitude is 35o 46’ East and the GHA of Mars is 39o 53’.8. What is the LHA?
Remember the rule: Long East, LHA = GHA + LONG (-360o )
GHA = 39o 53’.8
LONG = 35o 46’.0E (+)
LHA = 75 o 39’.8 .
(Remember 60 minutes in 1 degree)
Example 4. Your assumed longitude = 125o 13’.0W. The GHA of the Sun is 243o 44’.7 What is the LHA?
Long West, LHA = GHA – LONG (+360o ?)
GHA = 243o 44’.7
LONG = 125o 13’.0W (-)
LHA = 118o 31’.7
Example 5.
Longitude is 120oW. GHA is 70o.
What is the LHA?
LHA = GHA – LONG (+360o ?)
GHA = 70o 00’.0
LONG = 120o 00’.0 W. (-)
LHA = -50o 00’.0
360o 00’.0 (+)
LHA = 310o 00’.0
Example 6. Longitude is 90oE. GHA is 340o
What is the LHA?
LHA = GHA + LONG (-360o ?)
GHA = 340o
LONG = 90oE (+)
LHA = 430o
360o (-)
LHA = 70o

[Sjizzle]

u can read more here (http://www.madinstro.net/sundry/navcel.html)

[palmic]

If the time at an observer’s position is 2 hours and 3 minutes after noon, then the angular distance between the observer’s meridian of longitude and the Greenwich Meridian must be (2 x15o ) + (3x 15’) = 30o 45’. Because it is after noon at the observer’s position, the longitude of that position must be to the East of the Greenwich Meridian since the Earth rotates from West to East. Therefore the observer’s longitude must be 30o 45’ East and since LHA is measured westwards from the observer’s meridian, the LHA must also be 30o 45’.

Thank you Sjizzle this explained everything to me, i am sure it will help the others too, if they'll find it! :up:

I would just complain this approach as main description for get longitude in your post #2, because its not clear how that spreadsheet calculates it and its not IMO realistic to use excel in 1939 ;)

[Sjizzle]

Thank you Sjizzle this explained everything to me, i am sure it will help the others too, if they'll find it! :up:

I would just complain this approach as main description for get longitude in your post #2, because its not clear how that spreadsheet calculates it and its not IMO realistic to use excel in 1939 ;)


my pleasure also i have posted a link for the celestial fix basics see the post above

[palmic]

Yeah, read it, thanks! :salute:

I made printable cheatsheet (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9Rj7Hxxu0DYSzc2NzFPd3RFY28/view?usp=sharing) to get into it easily without need to alt-tab out of the game :)

[Sjizzle]

@palmic take a look here how to navigate without navigation officer ....i calculated my own position


PS. i don't use TDW's UI


http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/99c4/djl6jjs17817vd4zg.jpg

[siege00]

Any chance of someone doing a Celestial Nav step by step tutorial? :D

[Sjizzle]

Any chance of someone doing a Celestial Nav step by step tutorial? :D


read the first posts of this thread !!

[siege00]

read the first posts of this thread !!

Sorry Sjizzle, I should've been more specific. The noon sightings I understand... it's the Stars, Planets, Moons stuff that makes me scratch my head. I'll have to keep watching those vids, which are really good, until it sets in.

From a procedures standpoint, do you just operate via the noon-time fix and DR? And does that work pretty well for the most part? I'm wondering if drift, currents, etc. are built into the game, TWoS specifically.

Thanks!

[Sjizzle]

Sorry Sjizzle, I should've been more specific. The noon sightings I understand... it's the Stars, Planets, Moons stuff that makes me scratch my head. I'll have to keep watching those vids, which are really good, until it sets in.

From a procedures standpoint, do you just operate via the noon-time fix and DR? And does that work pretty well for the most part? I'm wondering if drift, currents, etc. are built into the game, TWoS specifically.

Thanks!


heya.... yup i make 2 celestial fix a day 1 noon and 1 at the midnight using the stars but for the stars celestial fix i didn't made a tutorial was busy in RL and also completely forgot about it ..... u can really lost yourself on the sea when is bad weather cos there is no sun and u must make a DR fix and sometimes is hard to keep the heading cos u drift out from the course .....

[siege00]

Gotcha. How often do you miss your fixes? ie. scattered clouds making you miss the sun overhead, or bad weather? Have you had to go long times with no fixes? That actually sounds kinda fun, but could be a little frustrating. lol

[palmic]

Is it possible to make fix by polar star here?
It should be easiest way isn't?

Thanks for all your work, this is one of best mods ever :salute:

[Sjizzle]

Is it possible to make fix by polar star here?
It should be easiest way isn't?

Thanks for all your work, this is one of best mods ever :salute:

yup u can make a fix using the polaris ....

[siege00]

yup u can make a fix using the polaris ....

Just to confirm Sjizzle, even shooting Polaris, you have to use the more in-depth method of getting your position via Altitudes and using Aries as a known?

[Sjizzle]

Just to confirm Sjizzle, even shooting Polaris, you have to use the more in-depth method of getting your position via Altitudes and using Aries as a known?


For any point between the Equator and the North Pole, latitude is obtained simply by measuring the altitude of Polaris: at 30°N the star is 30° above the horizon, at 63°N, it is 63° above the horizon, and so on

[blkdimnd]

I'd like to learn how to use Celestial Navigation in game.
I've read the post here, but I get confused with finding my Longitude.

Anyone have another tutorial or more documentation? (Get get confused easily :06: )
A video would be great too. :O:

[blkdimnd]

Here's a link to a new calculation spreadsheet that incorporates the star/sun almanac to find GHA and LHA for Longitude calculations.

http://www.navigation-spreadsheets.com/

No need to use the Online Nautical Almanac to look up tables.

So far, looks like the spreadsheet only works in Excel, I couldn't get it to work in Google Sheets.
I haven't tried it in any other spreadsheet programs.

[danadi712]

Hello Sjizzle!
In first page i think you asked for an almanac.For all users here is a link.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=135215
In SH4 Nav Package you can find those almanacs.
But from what i see in your first almanac picture (calculate sun declination at 1939. sept. 01 12:00 PM) it is a little difference at GHA column.
Yours is 57.2 N 8 31.0.
In SH4 Nav Package is 57.0 N 8 31.0.
So is 0.2 difference.
Is this relevant?

[gezahu]

In the tutorial you are calculating (i mean adding and substracting) degrees and minutes just simply as decimals. You measured 42 degrees and 54 minutes not 42.54 degrees. 42 degree 54 minutes is 42.914 degrees not 42.54. This simulation is simply too simple (in celestial simulation) to incorporate such a complicated thing as celestial navigation. I have no idea how you come to right position it is either your or the softwarefault.

You could give the "illusion" of navigation by enabling sextant and you could read your position (lat/long) at the bottom and find it on the map.

[Japo32]

Hello,

I have been trying to follow the steps here, but I have a main problem. I have Wolves of Steel mega mod and when I put the sextant I try to lineup with the horizont, but as you may know we have waves so it is almost imposible. All is moving up and down. So I guess the method to use it propertly is with a sextant that divides the horizont and the sun so you see both of them at the same wave movement and you can line them easier.
I saw in the 3rd page a mod that simulates that. A sextant by a user that didn't know to speak correctly english, but I am trying to find it without any success that sextant mod. Was ended? Can we use it instead the WoS mod?
If we have to use the WoS sextant, how you usually do to aboid the waves movement, or minimize?

Thanks!

[gezahu]

Plus I dont see the bottom of the sun it is so bright...

[gezahu]

Hello,

I have been trying to follow the steps here, but I have a main problem. I have Wolves of Steel mega mod and when I put the sextant I try to lineup with the horizont, but as you may know we have waves so it is almost imposible. All is moving up and down. So I guess the method to use it propertly is with a sextant that divides the horizont and the sun so you see both of them at the same wave movement and you can line them easier.
I saw in the 3rd page a mod that simulates that. A sextant by a user that didn't know to speak correctly english, but I am trying to find it without any success that sextant mod. Was ended? Can we use it instead the WoS mod?
If we have to use the WoS sextant, how you usually do to aboid the waves movement, or minimize?

Thanks!

Well my 2 cents:
I enabled stabilize view in gameplaysettings.cfg in the savegames folder where you can individually enable disable things without "punishment". I dont think rocking binocular is any more "realistic" than a steady one as you compensate with your body the ship movement and can view things pretty stady on a rocking deck.

However I am very sceptic with this sextant thing because I do not believe that the coders took the pain of coding dead accurate celestial positions into the game.

[Japo32]

Yes.. the stars and sun positions and moon also are accurate. It would be nice to have the sextant that divide the image in 2 as was developed, but I think is missing in some time in the past.....

[Japo32]

going into documents SH5/data/GameplaySettings.cfg and changing the NoStabilizeView to False, doesn't change anything.. it continues waving up and down. Imposible to calculate a real altitude angle of the sun or any star....

[gezahu]

going into documents SH5/data/GameplaySettings.cfg and changing the NoStabilizeView to False, doesn't change anything.. it continues waving up and down. Imposible to calculate a real altitude angle of the sun or any star....

Not that. The cfg file you change is in mydocuments/*user*/SH5 or something... where the savegames are not the game.

[gezahu]

No matter what I cant make it work. My readings is off....

[Sir Pappnase]

In your 2nd tutorial, where comes the sextant minutes of 51 from? Ist it from the Altitude? that 5142?
The 40 you are refering to below, is that the calculated altitude° Hc in the excel file?
I downloaded the file aswell, but unfortunately it shows #WERT! (~#VALUE!) in the declination line


I also cant get the sextant up. do have have to press a button, once i point it on the horizon? I only can move it up and down like 20° I cant even measure the altitude.

[Lymark1]

I've been calculating my LAT for the past 3hrs but I just can't figure why my math is incorrectly. Could someone please help me out?

I'm using Tutorial TDC as my mission(TWOS), starting location is 46.41N , 15.10W

My math below:
1/1/1941, sun's highest point is at 9am local or 10am GMT.
Sextant Altitude=56.31, DEC is S23.04
ZD=89.60-56.31=33.29
Latitude=33.29-23.04=N10.25

What have I done wrong here? Why is my LAT 10.25N instead of 46.41 :06:

Any help would be appreciated!

[Sean C]

Well, the good news is that your math is correct. The bad news is that it seems your noon altitude is wrong.


The equation for figuring out the predicted altitude of a celestial body is:


asin(sin(Dec)·sin(Lat)+cos(Dec)·cos(LHA)·cos(Lat))


"Dec" is the declination of the body, "Lat" is your latitude and "LHA" is the local hour angle of the body. By definition, at local noon, the LHA is 0°. So, plugging in the other figures from your example gives us:


asin(sin(-23°04')·sin(46°41')+cos(-23°04')·cos(0°)·cos(46°41') = 20°15'


In other words, the altitude you should have measured given these parameters is 20°15'. Subtracting this from 90° (or 89°60') gives 69°45'. Subtracting the declination, 23°04', from 69°45' gives 46°41' ... your DR latitude.


Now, why your altitude is so wrong is another question altogether.

[vdr1981]

I've been calculating my LAT for the past 3hrs but I just can't figure why my math is incorrectly. Could someone please help me out?

I'm using Tutorial TDC as my mission(TWOS), starting location is 46.41N , 15.10W

My math below:
1/1/1941, sun's highest point is at 9am local or 10am GMT.
Sextant Altitude=56.31, DEC is S23.04
ZD=89.60-56.31=33.29
Latitude=33.29-23.04=N10.25

What have I done wrong here? Why is my LAT 10.25N instead of 46.41 :06:

Any help would be appreciated!

Try it in the campaign. I don't think that time and date are correct in single missions...

[sckallst]

So I've jumped back in to sub-simming recently. I've always played Real Nav/no map contacts, but this time I've decided to go all-in on celestial navigation with no or minimal help from the in-game navigator and scripts.

I understand cel nav well enough to get by, but I'm having a tough time getting accurate-enough sights with even small wave motion. I'd really like to be able to mess around with three star fixes and such, but I'm just bouncing around way too much.

I see others in this thread have had this issue as well. Any new advice or fixes out there?

Thanks to all who've posted the various tutorials and other resources here and in the SH3/SH4 forums. Really looking forward to doing navigation to add something to the game.

[vdr1981]

So I've jumped back in to sub-simming recently. I've always played Real Nav/no map contacts, but this time I've decided to go all-in on celestial navigation with no or minimal help from the in-game navigator and scripts.

I understand cel nav well enough to get by, but I'm having a tough time getting accurate-enough sights with even small wave motion. I'd really like to be able to mess around with three star fixes and such, but I'm just bouncing around way too much.

I see others in this thread have had this issue as well. Any new advice or fixes out there?

Thanks to all who've posted the various tutorials and other resources here and in the SH3/SH4 forums. Really looking forward to doing navigation to add something to the game.
Small tip: If you select "deck awash" depth, your sub will be much less bouncy and you can still use built in sextant...:yep:
You can also try to pause the game with "backspace" while measuring the elevation of celestial bodies...

[sckallst]

Thanks for the tips. :up: Will try them tonight.

I've been doing pretty well with just noon sights for latitude, dead reckoning, using the radio beacons, using an almanac and timepiece, but those only get you so far.

I get that DIY navigation isn't for everybody, but it sure adds to the immersion factor if you have the time and patience to do it. Also makes the whole intercept process on radio contacts a lot more interesting when you have to count on yourself to know where to even start from in your calculations.

[ouPhrontis]

I show sunrise and sunset times as being off, I seem to recall this was an issue with SHIII, is that the case with 5?

https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/grad/solcalc/sunrise.html

^this shows sunrise for 56°47'N 1°3'E on 08/11/1939 as 'apparent' 0719, whereas the board in-game has 0705 (118).

Will this interfere with Cel-Nav?

Currently have bad weather, so pitching/rolling deck is messing with my results.

[Lanzfeld]

Yes I have noticed that the in game board sunset and sunrise times I’ve been off for a long time.

[vdr1981]

I show sunrise and sunset times as being off, I seem to recall this was an issue with SHIII, is that the case with 5?

https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/grad/solcalc/sunrise.html

^this shows sunrise for 56°47'N 1°3'E on 08/11/1939 as 'apparent' 0719, whereas the board in-game has 0705 (118).

Will this interfere with Cel-Nav?

Currently have bad weather, so pitching/rolling deck is messing with my results.
I don't do full celestial navigation my self so forgive me if my answer is pointless, but can this built in function be of any help for you? :hmmm:

https://i.postimg.cc/xT4FbyKb/SH5_Img_2018-10-09_21.17.44.jpg

[palmic]

I don't do full celestial navigation my self so forgive me if my answer is pointless, but can this built in function be of any help for you? :hmmm:

https://i.postimg.cc/xT4FbyKb/SH5_Img_2018-10-09_21.17.44.jpg



What is he asking about is if the sun is accurate enough to use with manual celestial navigation (i don't know)
You don't have to use it since navigator can do it accurate enough...

[Vlaxie]

I can't figure out the procedure to get the correct longitude tbh, all I know is that the sun will pass over Greenwich when GMT is at 12:00pm but I don't know what the other steps are for getting my correct longitude

[Sean C]

The best way to determine longitude using only the Sun is by doing a "time sight". You measure the altitude of the Sun several hours before or after local noon and then use tables (or a calculator) to find your longitude.


If you want to use tables, a good set is available for free here (https://play.google.com/books/reader?id=m25-mM6qxvgC&hl=en&pg=GBS.PP1).


If you want to use a calculator (which is quicker and, IMO, easier), you can use the following formula:


cos(LHA) = (sin(Ho) - sin(Dec.) · sin(Lat.)) / (cos(Dec.) · cos(Lat.))


... where:


"LHA" is the local hour angle of the Sun
"Ho" is the measured altitude of the Sun, corrected for index error, height of eye, refraction and semi-diameter
"Dec." is the declination of the Sun at the time of the sight
"Lat." is the latitude of the boat at the time of the sight (usually determined from dead reckoning or "run up" from a noon sight or sight of Polaris

Once you find the local hour angle of the Sun, you can compare it to the Greenwich hour angle (GHA) and determine your longitude.



*Note: the tables linked above do this in a roundabout way by using the "apparent time at ship" and comparing that to Greenwich Mean Time (GMT). But this is really the same concept, because the difference in time is directly linked to the difference in longitude.

[Vlaxie]

The best way to determine longitude using only the Sun is by doing a "time sight". You measure the altitude of the Sun several hours before or after local noon and then use tables (or a calculator) to find your longitude.


If you want to use tables, a good set is available for free here (https://play.google.com/books/reader?id=m25-mM6qxvgC&hl=en&pg=GBS.PP1).


If you want to use a calculator (which is quicker and, IMO, easier), you can use the following formula:


cos(LHA) = (sin(Ho) - sin(Dec.) · sin(Lat.)) / (cos(Dec.) · cos(Lat.))


... where:


"LHA" is the local hour angle of the Sun
"Ho" is the measured altitude of the Sun, corrected for index error, height of eye, refraction and semi-diameter
"Dec." is the declination of the Sun at the time of the sight
"Lat." is the latitude of the boat at the time of the sight (usually determined from dead reckoning or "run up" from a noon sight or sight of Polaris

Once you find the local hour angle of the Sun, you can compare it to the Greenwich hour angle (GHA) and determine your longitude.



*Note: the tables linked above do this in a roundabout way by using the "apparent time at ship" and comparing that to Greenwich Mean Time (GMT). But this is really the same concept, because the difference in time is directly linked to the difference in longitude.


Hello, thank you for the quick response

I took a sun shot a few hours after the local noon and I applied the formula
(sin(Ho) - sin(Dec.) · sin(Lat.)) / (cos(Dec.) · cos(Lat.)) and I'm pretty sure I've input all the correct information, the latitude is correct, the declination taken from the almanac for the exact day and hour when I took the shot and the altitude angle as well but I'm not sure what to do with the resulting number (I did make sure to set the calculator to display the result in degrees). For reference, the number that I got at the end was 0.82, and the sun's GHA at the time of measurement is 59° 58.0'.
I know that my actual longitude is around 19° 4'E but how do I get to that number from what I calculated?

:Kaleun_Salute:

[Aktungbby]

Vlaxie!:Kaleun_Salute: after a 3 year silent run!:yeah:

[Sean C]

I took a sun shot a few hours after the local noon and I applied the formula
(sin(Ho) - sin(Dec.) · sin(Lat.)) / (cos(Dec.) · cos(Lat.)) and I'm pretty sure I've input all the correct information, the latitude is correct, the declination taken from the almanac for the exact day and hour when I took the shot and the altitude angle as well but I'm not sure what to do with the resulting number (I did make sure to set the calculator to display the result in degrees). For reference, the number that I got at the end was 0.82, and the sun's GHA at the time of measurement is 59° 58.0'.
I know that my actual longitude is around 19° 4'E but how do I get to that number from what I calculated?


Could you provide the latitude, declination and Ho (altitude) of the Sun? That would help me double check the calculation.


You left out the "cos(LHA)" part of the equation above, so I'm not sure if you took that into account. It means that you must find the arccosine of the result from what you did quote. Another way to write the equation (which might make more sense) is:


acos((sin(Ho) - sin(Dec.) · sin(Lat.)) / (cos(Dec.) · cos(Lat.))) = LHA


Also, one thing I forgot to mention is that, technically, the result you get is not necessarily the LHA proper. It is actually what is sometimes referred to as "t": the "meridian angle" of the Sun (or how many degrees away from the local meridian the Sun is, either east or west). If you took your sight after local noon, t = LHA. If you took your sight before local noon, 360° - t = LHA.


The difference between the LHA and GHA of the Sun is your longitude. If your actual longitude is indeed 19°04' E, then the Sun will be 19°04' farther west at your location. If we add your longitude to the GHA of the Sun, we get: 59°58' + 19°04' = 79°02'. That is what the LHA of the Sun will be at your location. (Hint: when comparing GHA to LHA, add longitude to GHA if east of Greenwich, subtract if west.)



If we take the arccosine of 0.82, we get t = 34.9152... or 34°54.9'. Since you state that you took the sight after local noon, t = LHA. This is clearly way off from the expected value of 79°02'. On the other hand, assuming you did take the arccosine of the result, 0.82° = 0°49.2' ... also way off.


But, again, I would need all of the actual data to begin to track down exactly what went wrong. It could very well be that the sim does not have the Sun at the correct altitude for your location. Multiple people on this forum have come to the conclusion that SH does not correctly model the positions of the heavenly bodies. I do not play SH, so I cannot personally verify this.

[Vlaxie]

Could you provide the latitude, declination and Ho (altitude) of the Sun? That would help me double check the calculation.


You left out the "cos(LHA)" part of the equation above, so I'm not sure if you took that into account. It means that you must find the arccosine of the result from what you did quote. Another way to write the equation (which might make more sense) is:


acos((sin(Ho) - sin(Dec.) · sin(Lat.)) / (cos(Dec.) · cos(Lat.))) = LHA


Also, one thing I forgot to mention is that, technically, the result you get is not necessarily the LHA proper. It is actually what is sometimes referred to as "t": the "meridian angle" of the Sun (or how many degrees away from the local meridian the Sun is, either east or west). If you took your sight after local noon, t = LHA. If you took your sight before local noon, 360° - t = LHA.


The difference between the LHA and GHA of the Sun is your longitude. If your actual longitude is indeed 19°04' E, then the Sun will be 19°04' farther west at your location. If we add your longitude to the GHA of the Sun, we get: 59°58' + 19°04' = 79°02'. That is what the LHA of the Sun will be at your location. (Hint: when comparing GHA to LHA, add longitude to GHA if east of Greenwich, subtract if west.)



If we take the arccosine of 0.82, we get t = 34.9152... or 34°54.9'. Since you state that you took the sight after local noon, t = LHA. This is clearly way off from the expected value of 79°02'. On the other hand, assuming you did take the arccosine of the result, 0.82° = 0°49.2' ... also way off.


But, again, I would need all of the actual data to begin to track down exactly what went wrong. It could very well be that the sim does not have the Sun at the correct altitude for your location. Multiple people on this forum have come to the conclusion that SH does not correctly model the positions of the heavenly bodies. I do not play SH, so I cannot personally verify this.


Alrighty, I measured again and here are the numbers, these are from the 1st of September 1939, 16:00 GMT (17:00 hrs local)

Ho 21° 34'
dec N 8° 27.4'
lat N 54° 41'


The Sun's GHA at the time of measurement is 59° 58.0 and I know that my actual longitude is around 19° 04' E. I've been wondering about the accuracy of SH5's celestial sphere, but I found that latitude myself and it's pretty accurate to what the ingame navigator calculates so I'm hoping it's good enough for longitude too :) (also I measured that sun angle in a slightly rough sea so if the result is a bit different than expected that's the reason why)

[Sean C]

Okay, so here's how the calculation should have gone:


acos((sin(21°34') - sin(8°27.4') · sin(54°41')) / (cos(8°27.4') · cos(54°41')))


acos((0.367583568 - 0.147061367 · 0.815969464) / (0.98912737 · 0.578095005))


acos((0.367583568 - 0.119997585) / 0.571809592)


acos(0.247585984 / 0.571809592)


acos(0.432986762) = 64.34274255 or 64°20.6'


If we subtract the GHA of the Sun from the LHA, we get a longitude of 4°22.6' E. This is also clearly wrong. I did check your data for the Sun on the date you gave and it is correct. I'm not sure how you initially got a value of 0.82, though.


Anyway, you wrote that you "measured that sun angle in a slightly rough sea so if the result is a bit different than expected that's the reason why". That's perfectly normal under the conditions. However, if we calculate what the altitude of the Sun should have been at that time and location, we get:


asin(sin(8°27.4) · sin(54°41') + cos(8°27.4) · cos(79°02') · cos(54°41')) = 13°13.5'


That's a difference of 8°20.5' from your measured altitude. This is far too much error for an accurate determination of longitude (or for any navigational purpose). An error of a few tenths of an arcminute would be acceptable. Even a measurement error of one whole arcminute at that latitude would result in an error in longitude of a little more than 1 nautical mile.


(Note also: the farther off your estimated latitude is from your actual latitude, the greater the error in longitude will be. However the closer the Sun is to due East or West when the sight is taken, the smaller this error will be. But I don't think that is the problem here. The azimuth of the Sun at the time of your sight should have been 266° - almost due West.)


In summary: the only problem I can find is in the measured altitude of the Sun. What the cause of this error is, I cannot say.

[Japo32]

Hello

In the first page I cannot see the images. Can someone post them? I don't find a good sextant tutorial anywhere. only this french one, but it is complicated to me:

http://www.mille-sabords.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=57739

Thanks!

[Sean C]

Hello

I don't find a good sextant tutorial anywhere. only this french one, but it is complicated to me


If you need help understanding how to do celestial navigation in general, I can assist you with that.

[vdr1981]

Here is also a table of corrections for local apparent noon latitude calculations in SH5 world which I have created during my extensive testing.:yep:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/5i7853ruaegpayu/LAN_corrections.docx/file

Note that this applies to TWoS only. I still have to learn and test longitude calculations, lat/long determination using stars ect. In general my conclusion is that in SH5 world the "sky" is accurate and follow real world rules but certain corrections have to be applied for highly accurate results... Happy navigating. :salute:

[d3vnu11]

After a 10 year break of playing I'm back into the game. Specially during these current times I'm looking for some help. On getting mods up-to-date. I have the steam version and the uplay download version of the game from long ago.
I currently use these mods looking cleanup and update mods any help would greatly be appreciated in consolidating and updating and removing mods that are no longer needed or obsolete.
Best Regards,
d3vnu11


Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Silent Hunter 5\MODS]

Magnum_Opus_v0_0_1
IRAI_0_0_30_ByTheDarkWraith
NewUIs_TDC_6_8_0_ByTheDarkWraith
NewUIs_TDC_6_8_0_Real_Navigation
FX_Update_0_0_19_ByTheDarkWraith
TheDarkWraith_DC_Water_Disturbances_v2_0_SH5
Dynamic Environment SH5 Basemod (realistic version) V2.1
Dynamic Environment SH5 BrighterNights V2.1
Dynamic Environment SH5 Undersea (temperate and polar) V2.1
Dynamic Environment SH5 Waves (realistic version) V2.1
Dynamic Environment SH5 Sounds V2.1
Stormys DBSM SH5 v1.3 Basemod
Stormys DBSM SH5 v1.3 HOTFIX 3
Stormys DBSM SH5 v1.3 optional scary creaks
Stormys DBSM SH5 v1.3 optional remaining orig sounds converted to 22Khz
Stormys DBSM SH5 v1.3 optional NavMap babelling
Stormys DBSM SH5 v1.3 additional crew sounds beta6
Trevally Automated Scripts v0.6
sobers see thru wake fix
sobers smaller water drops
Equipment_Upgrades_Fix_1_2_byTheBeast
stoianm EnvWeather V1 SH5
Manos Scopes-patch for 16x9
Critical hits 1.1 Torpedos
Critical hits v 1.2
EQuaTool 01.01 by AvM - double set - Large plus Flat Style
Church's NavMap v1.0 - Illyustrator's Version
Church's NavMap v1.0 - Red Lines
Speech Recognition_MiTons_NewUI_Editon_v0.4.1_english
Grossdeutscher Rundfunk
AirTorpedoes
TDW_Mines_Subnets_Detectable_in_hydro (OH II v1.4)
OPEN HORIZONS II_full v1.4
OHII v1.4 Patch2 Full
MyKey

[Aktungbby]

d3vnu11!:Kaleun_Salute:

[d3vnu11]

After a 10 year break of playing I'm back into the game. Specially during these current times I'm looking for some help. On getting mods up-to-date. I have the steam version and the uplay download version of the game from long ago.
I currently use these mods looking cleanup and update mods any help would greatly be appreciated in consolidating and updating and removing mods that are no longer needed or obsolete.
Best Regards,
d3vnu11


Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Silent Hunter 5\MODS]

Magnum_Opus_v0_0_1
IRAI_0_0_30_ByTheDarkWraith
NewUIs_TDC_6_8_0_ByTheDarkWraith
NewUIs_TDC_6_8_0_Real_Navigation
FX_Update_0_0_19_ByTheDarkWraith
TheDarkWraith_DC_Water_Disturbances_v2_0_SH5
Dynamic Environment SH5 Basemod (realistic version) V2.1
Dynamic Environment SH5 BrighterNights V2.1
Dynamic Environment SH5 Undersea (temperate and polar) V2.1
Dynamic Environment SH5 Waves (realistic version) V2.1
Dynamic Environment SH5 Sounds V2.1
Stormys DBSM SH5 v1.3 Basemod
Stormys DBSM SH5 v1.3 HOTFIX 3
Stormys DBSM SH5 v1.3 optional scary creaks
Stormys DBSM SH5 v1.3 optional remaining orig sounds converted to 22Khz
Stormys DBSM SH5 v1.3 optional NavMap babelling
Stormys DBSM SH5 v1.3 additional crew sounds beta6
Trevally Automated Scripts v0.6
sobers see thru wake fix
sobers smaller water drops
Equipment_Upgrades_Fix_1_2_byTheBeast
stoianm EnvWeather V1 SH5
Manos Scopes-patch for 16x9
Critical hits 1.1 Torpedos
Critical hits v 1.2
EQuaTool 01.01 by AvM - double set - Large plus Flat Style
Church's NavMap v1.0 - Illyustrator's Version
Church's NavMap v1.0 - Red Lines
Speech Recognition_MiTons_NewUI_Editon_v0.4.1_english
Grossdeutscher Rundfunk
AirTorpedoes
TDW_Mines_Subnets_Detectable_in_hydro (OH II v1.4)
OPEN HORIZONS II_full v1.4
OHII v1.4 Patch2 Full
MyKey

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Silent Hunter 5\TWoS_Parts]

Never mind I just went for it after backing up the game. TWoS pretty much is the defacto expansion

TWoS Real Navigation
TWoS Neutrals Illuminated Only_Until [Date]
TWoS Campaign Advance Verifier Testing
Speech Recognition_MiTons_NewUI_Editon_v0.4.1_english
TWoS Remove Map Plastic Cover
TWoS SM Interior_Food Stocks
Grossdeutscher Rundfunk
EQuaTool 01.01 by AvM - double set - Large plus Flat Style

all seems well I'm excited because I'm sailing off to help with the Baltic Operation. Big thanks to all the mod devs, and content providers you made this game a historical archive of knowledge.
Best Regards,
--d3v

[vdr1981]

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Silent Hunter 5\TWoS_Parts]

Never mind I just went for it after backing up the game. TWoS pretty much is the defacto expansion

TWoS Real Navigation
TWoS Neutrals Illuminated Only_Until [Date]
TWoS Campaign Advance Verifier Testing
Speech Recognition_MiTons_NewUI_Editon_v0.4.1_english
TWoS Remove Map Plastic Cover
TWoS SM Interior_Food Stocks
Grossdeutscher Rundfunk
EQuaTool 01.01 by AvM - double set - Large plus Flat Style

all seems well I'm excited because I'm sailing off to help with the Baltic Operation. Big thanks to all the mod devs, and content providers you made this game a historical archive of knowledge.
Best Regards,
--d3v
Remove Grossdeutscher Rundfunk, an improved version of this mod is already withing TWoS...:yep::salute:

[d3vnu11]

Remove Grossdeutscher Rundfunk, an improved version of this mod is already withing TWoS...:yep::salute:

:salute:

[Sean C]

That's perfectly normal under the conditions. However, if we calculate what the altitude of the Sun should have been at that time and location


I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish by what you're doing, but I'm reporting it as spam as it is not helpful.

[J0hn Shadow]

Hi there,I'm using the TWOS Mega mod, I love it BTW, but I don't know what is going on with Emil atm, but it's clear conditions, 0 m/s wind and so on (turned it on in the TDW Patch Viewer) and he don't give me a fix celestial Position. Anyone knows the Problem? I started a new Campaign and I'm in the Danzig Bay right now.
Maybe somebody who knows the Problem?

[Macgregor the Hammer]

This is really good stuff! It's almost identical to the Coast Guard Auxiliary Celestial Navigation lesson syllabus I studied when I was trying to get my sailing master's license back in the '89's. I think I still have the books somewhere. Thanks for posting!



:Kaleun_Salute:

[MrArt]

Hello!

I am using Real Navigation with TWOS. I started a new campaign. When I used the sextant to calculate the coordinates I saw that the sky was behaving very strangely. If my time zone is GMT +1 then I must use the Nautical Almanac with a GMT -1 time, and if the time zone is GMT -5
then I have to use GMT +5 time (checked this with Stellarium). Only in this case will all the calculations be correct. How to fix it?

And is there a way to increase the sextant zoom level to increase the accuracy of observations?

:k_confused:

[Aktungbby]

J0hnShadow!:Kaleun_Salute: & MrArt!:Kaleun_Salute:

[Sean C]

If my time zone is GMT +1 then I must use the Nautical Almanac with a GMT -1 time, and if the time zone is GMT -5
then I have to use GMT +5 time


I'm not sure, but this may be due to the fact that there are two different conventions for naming nautical time zones.


For example: let's say you're at 60° west longitude. Some sources would label this as "GMT -4", because the time there is 4 hours before the time at Greenwich. However, other sources would label it as "GMT +4", because you have to add 4 hours to get to GMT. It's the same thing, just two different ways of looking at it.


Personally, the vast majority of examples I have seen list west longitudes as negative and east as positive. But, I have seen it the other way around occasionally. IIRC, the latter is more popular in European countries and the former in the U.S.


There was a discussion about this very topic on NavList some time ago. I'll try and see if I can find it ...


[EDIT] Here it is: Time Zone Conventions (http://fer3.com/arc/sort2.aspx?y=201401&sort=su&y2=202412&author=&subject=time%20zone%20sign%20conventions).

[MrArt]

I'm not sure, but this may be due to the fact that there are two different conventions for naming nautical time zones.

In real live you have to use Nautical Almanac with GMT time.
For example: I'm in GMT -4 time zone. So I need to uze Nautical Almanac with local time +4 (same as GMT) to find Declanation and GHA.

But in SH I need to uze GMT - time zone (at our example GMT +4). It's totaly wrong.

[MrArt]

Another example:

Today is 20 January 1943. U-Boat coordinates are 18°40'N 72°59'W. GMT is 18:01:30 and local time is 13:01:30 (GMT -5).
The sun is under horizon ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I can observe Moon at true azimuth 73°58' and altitude 10°34'

https://i.postimg.cc/52TTR7dp/SH.png (https://postimg.cc/yDhLJTNS)

Now go to Stellarium to the same place and the same time. But to get the same position of celestial bodies it needs to take GMT +5 time.

https://i.postimg.cc/wvcr39tb/Stellarium.png (https://postimg.cc/JD0x2V5b)

So in real life we have this celestial bodies position at 23:01:30 GMT and in SH at 18:01:30 GMT. It should not be like that.

It looks like Real Navigation uses GMT time as a local time.

[EDIT] It happens at initial loading. If you start mission or campaign at GMT +1 time zone you should ALWAYS subtract 1 hour from GMT time. Or if you starting point at GMT -5 time zone you should always add 5 hours to GMT. So so-called "GMT" time is local time at your starting point. I checked it with transatlantic trip.

[Lasicowaty]

Hi

I'm trying to get back to SH after few years, but first time with calculating u-boot position with real navigation. I would like to learn it from totorials #1 and #2 at first page of this thread, but I can't see the pictures. They are not available anymore. Well, I will try without pictures. But are there any other tutorials? There are many tutorials for manual TDC and all firing stuff but any tutorial about real navigation mod I can find says that your position will give you yor crew nawigator. That;ś not real navigation! :) There are tutorials for manual position calculating but I can't find them or there is no any but this thread only?

Cheers to all! :Kaleun_Salute:

[Ashikaga]

@Sjizzle: can you upload your nav tutorial images again please?


OLtzS Ashikaga.

[Macgregor the Hammer]

In 1895, Joshua Slocum, the first man to sail around the world solo on his gaff rigged sloop Spray, used a cheap tin clock for approximate time, noon sun sightings and lunar distance sightings and dead reckoning to navigate.

Pretty cool stuff...........:Kaleun_Salute:

[slipper]

Same as above really, is there any way of getting the pictures uploaded on the tutorials please? or has anyone saved them and could pm a copy?

many thanks

[Sean C]

If no one else responds, I would be happy to help with any general celestial navigation questions. However, I am unfamiliar with SH, so I cannot comment on how it works in-game.

[slipper]

Thanks, Nathaniel that's a very kind offer. I'm looking to use the sextant in SH5 really, so not sure how much or how it differs from real-life techniques.

I will have a play about and come back to you if I need some clarification.

I also just came across this series of videos

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=246847

have not had time to look at them yet, but they look very good


regards

[Sean C]

Thanks, Nathaniel that's a very kind offer. I'm looking to use the sextant in SH5 really, so not sure how much or how it differs from real-life techniques.

I will have a play about and come back to you if I need some clarification.

I also just came across this series of videos

https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=246847

have not had time to look at them yet, but they look very good


regards



From what I have read, it seems that Alpheratz has worked very hard to ensure that the standard techniques work in-game*. If what he writes is true, and he has developed an almanac that will work with the game, then I should be able to provide you with any help you might need.



Just let me know if you run into any stumbling blocks. A little help along the way can be the catalyst to a much deeper understanding of the fundamental concepts. (And it can also help by explaining the [sometimes outdated] jargon which often confuses the "uninitiated".) And if you really understand what's going on, the chance of making a mistake is greatly reduced.


Cheers!


* To be clear: this is not a trivial task. I'm not entirely sure that everyone here appreciates how much work must've gone into this.

[Salvadoreno]

Same as above really, is there any way of getting the pictures uploaded on the tutorials please? or has anyone saved them and could pm a copy?

many thanks

I'd like to second this.:salute:

[Szut]

In case anyone is still interested to see the picture of the original post, I have uploaded a copy I did once in the link below. I do own any of this work, but made a copy for my convenience once.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oef7dJWSVab1A1jFBtQCPFfB0Upx9sk_/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=108604366786203724446&rtpof=true&sd=true

[Alpheratz]

In case anyone is still interested to see the picture of the original post, I have uploaded a copy I did once in the link below. I do own any of this work, but made a copy for my convenience once.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oef7dJWSVab1A1jFBtQCPFfB0Upx9sk_/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=108604366786203724446&rtpof=true&sd=true

Hello Szut! Thank you for subscribing to the channel!
Indeed, the Sun can be used to determine latitude in Silent Hunter 5, given the declination of the Sun SH5, which is different from the real one (requires a special SH5 almanac), as well as the sun semidiameter. I talk about these nuances in my videos.

[U-190]

Hello Szut! Thank you for subscribing to the channel!
Indeed, the Sun can be used to determine latitude in Silent Hunter 5, given the declination of the Sun SH5, which is different from the real one (requires a special SH5 almanac), as well as the sun semidiameter. I talk about these nuances in my videos.

Привет! Сегодня обновил файлы компаса для использования в реальной навигации. Пробовал ли ты мой компас? Правильно ли он работает?

[Alpheratz]

Привет! Сегодня обновил файлы компаса для использования в реальной навигации. Пробовал ли ты мой компас? Правильно ли он работает?

Привет! Я пробовал две предыдущие версии. В первой версии у меня не вращалась картушка. Вторая версия у меня работала хорошо, но я тестировал ее без реальной навигации. Сегодня проверю версию 1.3 с реальной навигацией, напишу.

[Szut]

Hello Szut! Thank you for subscribing to the channel!


I just finished watching the intro video from your school of navigation - I do not have much time to study, but I am eager to "dive" into the topic ! Thanks for sharing your knowledge :Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

[Alpheratz]

I just finished watching the intro video from your school of navigation - I do not have much time to study, but I am eager to "dive" into the topic ! Thanks for sharing your knowledge :Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

Feel free to ask questions while learning :Kaleun_Salute:

[U-190]

Я ни хрена не понимаю. Я даже не знаю с чего начать. Из меня навигатор: как из козла - балерина.

P.S.
Я кстати исправил компас в рубке. Теперь он работает как надо.