TMO:how to get ST radar for other subs besides the Tench...

[Bubblehead1980]

I have long thought ST periscope radar should be an optional upgrade on all fleet boats later in the war as it was becoming standard equipment in late 44.Unfortunately till now it is only an option on the Tench.I would like it on Gato, Balao etc. Anyone know how to add it? I am assuming it can be done given it's on the Tench. I was looking in some of the sub files and did not see it but I did find it in the upcdata folder.Need someone who knows what they are doing. lol Thanks in advance.

[CapnScurvy]

The ST Radar is not functional. The hard coded files were never fully implemented. Yes, you can get the radar unit into the periscope head, but raising the head from a periscope depth position doesn't give you radar (the unit never turns on). You want radar? You have to bring up the subs depth to have the radar function as it would if the antenna were out of the water. The lack of having the ST Radar work as it should takes away its historic advantage. It's just another example of what could have been if UbiSoft wasn't so money hungry.

[Bubblehead1980]

The ST Radar is not functional. The hard coded files were never fully implemented. Yes, you can get the radar unit into the periscope head, but raising the head from a periscope depth position doesn't give you radar (the unit never turns on). You want radar? You have to bring up the subs depth to have the radar function as it would if the antenna were out of the water. The lack of having the ST Radar work as it should takes away its historic advantage. It's just another example of what could have been if UbiSoft wasn't so money hungry.

I recall it working on the Tench class in TMO...its on the observation scope, when you raise the scope it functions like a shorter range sj radar, worked fine.I havent used a tench in a while but worked fine last time I did.Just wanting to apply that to Gato class etc

[CapnScurvy]

I stand by what I said.

[Armistead]

Are you thinking the SV radar? It picks up both ships and planes using the obs. scope. It's been so long since I've played,except for testing, I don't recall for sure, but I don't recall the ST working.

Load the game using the last date in 45 and see if it's available. I don't recall it being an option.

[CapnScurvy]

Load the game using the last date in 45 and see if it's available. I don't recall it being an option.

That's just what I found after my first post too. The last mission date start in TMO 2.5's Campaign Game has a Tench in the "Beginning 1945" start date. No such animal as ST Radar exists. I took the sub out and returnned in a couple of days, to see if it offered an ST Radar in port again.....it did not. Seem's like RSRDC v502 has the ST modeled, but like I said, it doesn't work as intended.

[Bubblehead1980]

Are you thinking the SV radar? It picks up both ships and planes using the obs. scope. It's been so long since I've played,except for testing, I don't recall for sure, but I don't recall the ST working.

Load the game using the last date in 45 and see if it's available. I don't recall it being an option.

I remember ducimus putting it on the tench, raise the obs scope, ill check it out again but recall using it in one version of TMO, I assume he left it in.

[Bubblehead1980]

That's just what I found after my first post too. The last mission date start in TMO 2.5's Campaign Game has a Tench in the "Beginning 1945" start date. No such animal as ST Radar exists. I took the sub out and returnned in a couple of days, to see if it offered an ST Radar in port again.....it did not. Seem's like RSRDC v502 has the ST modeled, but like I said, it doesn't work as intended.

I dont think it was ever an upgrade, it just came on the tench, attached to the obs scope, he may have removed it, ill see if its in the change logs and am going to check it out.

[Bubblehead1980]

Okay I checked, yes there is ST radar attached to the observation periscope on Tench in Feb 1945.I dove and raised my observation scope, got a radar contact at 8 miles inside pearl harbor, i was outside and not in visual range, radar contact was reported, no other antenna was raised, I knew he put ST radar on there, I want it for Gato and other boats in later war if possible.I remembered ducimus put it in, its just not in as an upgrade or listed but i remember it being in the readme.


http://i.imgur.com/yimHI4X.png
http://i.imgur.com/VVk1SYI.png

[Stealhead]

The ST does work but not the way it would have during the war.Ducimus rig is really a tweaked SJ radar.

In reality it was a ranging only radar with a very limited FOV only a few degrees basically directly ahead so that a crewman could point the scope and the ST array attached to it at a location and get a range in return it was not tied into the PPI.ST had no "sweep" being a ranging radar not a search radar yuo would have already found your targets via other methods ST was just a highly accurate way to get an exact range(the SJ return could be off by many feet).The ST was really used for fire control and not searching.The St with the exception of the Barb was only installed on new Balao and Tench boats Fluckey got one mounted on the Barb because he was a god amongst men and he wanted to try it out.He did use it during one of his rocket attacks they used the ST and got the range from of a smoke stack of a paper factory.

On the Tench in TMO it performs like an SJ set with limited arc if I recall and its contacts did show up on the PPI.The other problem with ST in game is that it can also be detected which late war is a serious concern which forces you to use only the attack scope.In reality the ST was very narrow band making it very hard to detect especially for the Japanese.The SJ-1 was 10cm wavelength and the ST used 3cm wavelength the Japanese had very limited RWR capabilities during the war.

I think when Ubi was making the game they originally planned to include the ST but they either ran out of time or could not get it to work as a ranging set and therefore scrapped it.Ducimus added it into the Tench somehow if I recall it took him a lot of time and effort and he felt that it was not worth the trouble to make it an upgrade.

I have the same issues with the SV radar it does not function correctly in the game it behaves like an SJ set with better range that can spot both planes and surface contacts.SV did use the PPI though but because it behaves so unlike real SV I dont use it.SV was not installed on any boat until July of 45 anyway and too late to have seen any combat use.

[Bubblehead1980]

The ST does work but not the way it would have during the war.Ducimus rig is really a tweaked SJ radar.

In reality it was a ranging only radar with a very limited FOV only a few degrees basically directly ahead so that a crewman could point the scope and the ST array attached to it at a location and get a range in return it was not tied into the PPI.ST had no "sweep" being a ranging radar not a search radar yuo would have already found your targets via other methods ST was just a highly accurate way to get an exact range(the SJ return could be off by many feet).The ST was really used for fire control and not searching.The St with the exception of the Barb was only installed on new Balao and Tench boats Fluckey got one mounted on the Barb because he was a god amongst men and he wanted to try it out.He did use it during one of his rocket attacks they used the ST and got the range from of a smoke stack of a paper factory.

On the Tench in TMO it performs like an SJ set with limited arc if I recall and its contacts did show up on the PPI.The other problem with ST in game is that it can also be detected which late war is a serious concern which forces you to use only the attack scope.In reality the ST was very narrow band making it very hard to detect especially for the Japanese.The SJ-1 was 10cm wavelength and the ST used 3cm wavelength the Japanese had very limited RWR capabilities during the war.

I think when Ubi was making the game they originally planned to include the ST but they either ran out of time or could not get it to work as a ranging set and therefore scrapped it.Ducimus added it into the Tench somehow if I recall it took him a lot of time and effort and he felt that it was not worth the trouble to make it an upgrade.

I have the same issues with the SV radar it does not function correctly in the game it behaves like an SJ set with better range that can spot both planes and surface contacts.SV did use the PPI though but because it behaves so unlike real SV I dont use it.SV was not installed on any boat until July of 45 anyway and too late to have seen any combat use.



Well yea, I know its not like the real ST radar but its neat to have in the game, better to have something simulating it than nothing at all.SV radar annoys me as well, picks up surface contacts also so can never shut off surface radar.Would be nice to have on Balaos in late war, possibly for any boat if you have the renown.

[CapnScurvy]

Okay I checked, yes there is ST radar attached to the observation periscope on Tench in Feb 1945.I dove and raised my observation scope, got a radar contact at 8 miles inside pearl harbor, i was outside and not in visual range, radar contact was reported, no other antenna was raised.....

The "report" of a radar contact only appears in the Text Message board of the game. It says:

"RA: Radar Contact, Sir! Bearing xxx! Long Range!"

The Radar Station is not active with the ST radar implemented. That's what I mean about the ST Radar....it doesn't work with the games radar station. What good is a radar report if you can't use the radar unit to know the distance to target? As I said, the ST Radar is not functional. It doesn't have the same game functionality as the other surface radar units which uses the radar station to show targets.

[Stealhead]

Well yea, I know its not like the real ST radar but its neat to have in the game, better to have something simulating it than nothing at all.SV radar annoys me as well, picks up surface contacts also so can never shut off surface radar.Would be nice to have on Balaos in late war, possibly for any boat if you have the renown.


I do agree with you though in game it does "work" like an SJ of sorts I have seen it mark contacts on the map the squares for a radar contact and only the night scope was up (in the TMO Tench) I was at periscope depth so the SJ could not have been the culprit.This was a good while ago though and not TMO 2.5 so it might have been tweaked since then.

Honestly unless it truly is able to give only range to a target directly pointed at it and nothing else as the real ST did I really do not want it otherwise to me it becomes a cheat if it can act like the SJ.I am no expert modder by any means but making a working ST that is historically correct is not possible via modding.

[Bubblehead1980]

The "report" of a radar contact only appears in the Text Message board of the game. It says:

"RA: Radar Contact, Sir! Bearing xxx! Long Range!"

The Radar Station is not active with the ST radar implemented. That's what I mean about the ST Radar....it doesn't work with the games radar station. What good is a radar report if you can't use the radar unit to know the distance to target? As I said, the ST Radar is not functional. It doesn't have the same game functionality as the other surface radar units which uses the radar station to show targets.

Ok, we have a pesuedo ST radar in TMO, not a fully functional, historically accurate one, fine.SD radar does not have a display in the game either, you have to use the map and that gives too much info for SD as it couldnt give a bearing really.Unfortunately, as you know all too well, sometimes have to cut corners, settle for certain things in this game.For range, have to use the map contacts like the SD radar, gives too much info but how it is.Ducimus created a psuedo ST radar on the Tench, it's nice to have, and would be a great option for upgrade later in the war so thus my original post.Would like to make it an upgrade.

[Bubblehead1980]

I do agree with you though in game it does "work" like an SJ of sorts I have seen it mark contacts on the map the squares for a radar contact and only the night scope was up (in the TMO Tench) I was at periscope depth so the SJ could not have been the culprit.This was a good while ago though and not TMO 2.5 so it might have been tweaked since then.

Honestly unless it truly is able to give only range to a target directly pointed at it and nothing else as the real ST did I really do not want it otherwise to me it becomes a cheat if it can act like the SJ.I am no expert modder by any means but making a working ST that is historically correct is not possible via modding.

Perhaps it's range could reduced to maybe 10,000 yards? Ill have to do some research on it's capabilities, could make it as realistic as possible.Not sure, I havent even located the files to fool with it yet.Im still learning about different parts of the game.

[Stealhead]

That is just the the thing I have looked around before and there does not seem to be very much information on the exact capabilities of the ST. "US Navy Submarines Through 1945" goes into about as much technical detail as I can find on it.Because it used 3cm bandwith I know that it could not have had much range 10,000 yds in the most ideal conditions.It really had a range closer to 8,000yds.Of course we are also talking about an antenna that is only going to to be at most maybe 5 ft above the surface of the seas and that also reduces range.

Remember that it was a ranging radar and we know that most US Navy submarine attacks occurred from within 5,000yds.


It seems that the various radar sets had separate manuals because radar is not covered in any real detail within the Fleet Submarine manuals i know because I looked through all of them.

In the periscope manual it does describe how to test the ST but gives no information on how it was used or any information as to its range.In the manual it is clear that the set could use more than one frequency which would make it ever more difficult to detect.

Based on written information in books it seems like the ST was not "instant" you had to hold it on a target for several seconds to get a return.

I did find a manual for all types of radar in the US Navy it does not cover the ST or the SV though you can reason that the ST given its small size would not have had a very long range.
http://www.survivalebooks.com/free%20manuals/1945%20US%20Navy%20WWII%20-%20Radar%20Operators%20Manual%20%20%20408p.pdf

[Bubblehead1980]

That is just the the thing I have looked around before and there does not seem to be very much information on the exact capabilities of the ST. "US Navy Submarines Through 1945" goes into about as much technical detail as I can find on it.Because it used 3cm bandwith I know that it could not have had much range 10,000 yds in the most ideal conditions.It really had a range closer to 8,000yds.Of course we are also talking about an antenna that is only going to to be at most maybe 5 ft above the surface of the seas and that also reduces range.

Remember that it was a ranging radar and we know that most US Navy submarine attacks occurred from within 5,000yds.


It seems that the various radar sets had separate manuals because radar is not covered in any real detail within the Fleet Submarine manuals i know because I looked through all of them.

In the periscope manual it does describe how to test the ST but gives no information on how it was used or any information as to its range.In the manual it is clear that the set could use more than one frequency which would make it ever more difficult to detect.

Based on written information in books it seems like the ST was not "instant" you had to hold it on a target for several seconds to get a return.

I did find a manual for all types of radar in the US Navy it does not cover the ST or the SV though you can reason that the ST given its small size would not have had a very long range.
http://www.survivalebooks.com/free%20manuals/1945%20US%20Navy%20WWII%20-%20Radar%20Operators%20Manual%20%20%20408p.pdf


I figured 10,000 would be pushing it, i'd be ok with 5,000 yards.ill have to look up Thunder Below and see what Fluckey had to say about it, I remember he had in Barb I think for her last patrol