U.S. Military ‘Power Grab’ Goes Into Effect

[Feuer Frei!]

Sub-heading:
Pentagon Unilaterally Grants Itself Authority Over ‘Civil Disturbances.

The manhunt for the Boston Marathon bombing suspects offered the nation a window into the stunning military-style capabilities of our local law enforcement agencies. For the past 30 years, police departments throughout the United States have benefitted from the government’s largesse in the form of military weaponry and training, incentives offered in the ongoing “War on Drugs.” (http://www.hangthejury.com/)Indeed, however the so-called 'stunning' efforts were upturned or over-shadowed by the fact it wasn't the 'stunning' efforts or 'stunning' capabilities to actually find 1 of the suspects. It was a local resident who found him.
Perhaps i'm taking that comment out of context.

The lines blurred even further Monday as a new dynamic was introduced to the militarization of domestic law enforcement. By making a few subtle changes to a regulation in the U.S. Code titled “Defense Support of Civilian Law Enforcement Agencies” (http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/10C18.txt) the military has quietly granted itself the ability to police the streets without obtaining prior local or state consent, upending a precedent that has been in place for more than two centuries.More here:

SOURCE (http://www.longislandpress.com/2013/05/14/u-s-military-power-grab-goes-into-effect/)

[Red October1984]

Not sure what to think of this. :doh:

[Cybermat47]

I can see one way this can go...

Some far-right nut comes to the (logical) conclusion that this is a prelude to the US becoming a dictatorship, so he gets his gun and shoots up a police station or something.

The event is widely publicised, spurring other right-wing nuts to shoot up something government-owned, which then sparks a rebellion. Then, either the US citizens win their pointless war, OR... the government wins, and, afraid of further rebellions, sets up even stricter laws, and America really does become a dictatorship.

[Red October1984]

I can see one way this can go...

Some far-right nut comes to the (logical) conclusion that this is a prelude to the US becoming a dictatorship, so he gets his gun and shoots up a police station or something.

The event is widely publicised, spurring other right-wing nuts to shoot up something government-owned, which then sparks a rebellion. Then, either the US citizens win their pointless war, OR... the government wins, and, afraid of further rebellions, sets up even stricter laws, and America really does become a dictatorship.

It isn't always the far-right nuts.

You might consider me a Far-Right Nut. That's just political views. I have no intention of shooting up a Police Station. Those people are crazy and not always Conservative. The reason I believe that there are a lot of shootings lately is because the media overpublicizes them. Yes. They happen...but...the Media blows them way up and makes it a huge deal. The Media is not what it used to be. People know that if they go and shoot up a mall, the media is going to get every little detail and help that crazy person get his message out by complaining about guns and victims for months.

Like I said, I don't know what to think of this yet. :hmm2: Obama only supports Gun Control because it keeps the people off his case about the Economy. While we're mad at him for guns, he continues to screw us over.

[August]

This isn't a right/left issue. There will be plenty of Democrats opposing this as Republicans.

[Cybermat47]

It isn't always the far-right nuts.

Like I said, "one way this can go"...

You might consider me a Far-Right Nut.

You don't seem to be in a hurry to join the American Nazi Party or the Kooky Klutz Klan, so I don't actually. :salute:

[Red October1984]

You don't seem to be in a hurry to join the American Nazi Party or the Kooky Klutz Klan, so I don't actually. :salute:

Okay that's Extreme Far Right.

I'm not going anywhere near those groups in my lifetime. :yep: :salute:

[mookiemookie]

This is bad.

http://media.salon.com/2011/12/AP110921049117.jpg

The Posse Comitatus act is irrelevant anymore when the Police are just as well armed and equipped as military soldiers. There's effectively no difference between them.

[Tribesman]

The Posse Comitatus act is irrelevant anymore when the Police are just as well armed and equipped as military soldiers.
Its the price which goes with an armed population.
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a better gun and body armour.

[Red October1984]

Guess this is just another reason to stockpile weapons in my house for when they come and enforce Martial Law, Gun Control, etc.

Or FEMA Death Camps.... :hmmm:

[Betonov]

We're not talking about a third world dictatorship. I doubt giving the US army any more juristiction will cause a colapse of freedom.

[Ducimus]

Reading this thread, I can't help but remember that one of the local colleges in the county I live in, has the Wolverine as a mascot. :O:

[Dowly]

We're not talking about a third world dictatorship. I doubt giving the US army any more juristiction will cause a colapse of freedom.

This. I just dont see it happening.

[Stealhead]

This. I just dont see it happening.


In my opinion when a person places unquestioned faith towards their government they have made an error in judgment.

That is not to say that FEMA death camps are real mind you.I'm just saying that no government is safe from take over or fallibility.Many nations have risen and fallen over time so nothing is a guarantee.

It is an American ideal to never fully trust the government.The level of this belief does vary from region to region though.

[Ducimus]

In my opinion when a person places unquestioned faith towards their government they have made an error in judgment.

That is not to say that FEMA death camps are real mind you.I'm just saying that no government is safe from take over or fallibility.Many nations have risen and fallen over time so nothing is a guarantee.

It is an American ideal to never fully trust the government.The level of this belief does vary from region to region though.

My trust in our government has diminished appreciably over the last 6 months, and continues to decline with each passing day.

[Stealhead]

My trust in our government has diminished appreciably over the last 6 months, and continues to decline with each passing day.


I know things like this it makes you feel like your reading 1984.It is the removal of little things here and there the erosion of freedoms.Though Posse Comitatus is not a direct freedom it had a specific intent.Now the claim is that this will allow the government to help the population in times of need like natural disasters and acts of "terrorism"(which is conveniently definable). Yet it leaves a back door open and unlocked.And why the need to take these actions without the permission of state and local government? I would have no problem with a state requesting aid when needed but I see no need for it to be circumvented.Furthermore each state has its National Guard which the governor can call up under his or her own command without federalizing them it is a clear violation/circumvention of states rights.

[Red October1984]

Reading this thread, I can't help but remember that one of the local colleges in the county I live in, has the Wolverine as a mascot. :O:

:har: WOLVERINES!!!!

This is not good at all...I doubt it goes too far but there's always that chance. No matter how small the chance is, there's still a chance that it could happen. I'm not saying that every citizen needs to stock up and write up all their contingency plans but we need to stay informed. I'm by no means a political expert or anything but I think the Democratic Government is going to rip us apart.

[Stealhead]

:har: WOLVERINES!!!!



Just do yourself a favor and do not imitate the tactics displayed in that movie (the original have not viewed and do not plan to view the remake) they would get you killed fairly quickly.Instead use the tactics of the NLF(AKA Viet Cong) or to be frankly honest the Taliban.They employ excellent guerrilla warfare tactics.Death by one thousand cuts such a death is very frustrating to the enemy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RS7wOfbbx8

[Red October1984]

Just do yourself a favor and do not imitate the tactics displayed in that movie (the original have not viewed and do not plan to view the remake) they would get you killed fairly quickly.Instead use the tactics of the NLF(AKA Viet Cong) or to be frankly honest the Taliban.They employ excellent guerrilla warfare tactics.Death by one thousand cuts such a death is very frustrating to the enemy.

You don't have to tell me that twice! :yep:

The tactics they use in the movie suck. It makes for a good movie but it isn't practical.

[Platapus]

The Posse Comitatus act is irrelevant anymore when the Police are just as well armed and equipped as military soldiers. There's effectively no difference between them.


The Posse Comitatus Act is still relevant but not in the context you are using. Posse Comitatus does not in any way affect how the police can be armed. Only that the US military can not be used to enforce civil laws unless there is a waiver. PC is waived all the time, but each waiver is subjected to judicial review.

[mookiemookie]

The Posse Comitatus Act is still relevant but not in the context you are using. Posse Comitatus does not in any way affect how the police can be armed. No, I get that part, and I wasn't saying that it did. Only that the US military can not be used to enforce civil laws unless there is a waiver. PC is waived all the time, but each waiver is subjected to judicial review.

What I was getting at is that the idea behind the PCA is that a military force should not be used to enforce civil laws, but since the line between police and military is now so blurred, why even have it in the first place?

[Stealhead]

@Mookiemookie not to derail this thread or anything but upon reading your sig if a fart is a ghost of food that you ate then what is a burp?:hmmm: a poltergeist because it vocalizes.

[Red October1984]

@Mookiemookie not to derail this thread or anything but upon reading your sig if a fart is a ghost of food that you ate then what is a burp?:hmmm: a poltergeist because it vocalizes.

:har: Not bad...

BACK ON TOPIC!

Should we start up a prepper thread just in case? :06: :)

[Skybird]

We're not talking about a third world dictatorship. I doubt giving the US army any more juristiction will cause a colapse of freedom.

It is no all-of-a-sudden collapse at all, but a slow moving, creeping process over a longer time, with careful preparation of the public and erosion by educating the correct thinking and encouraging the right mind by using fear.

Already ten years ago I posted that Europe turns into a planned economy with a a totalitarian centralist control - and that I see the US most likely shifting towards a totalitarian police state.

With this now, drones, internet regulation, electronic surveillance of all communication, trying to enforce the abandoning of coins and note in favour if pure digital payment and so on, I see no reason to alter my old opinion.

Historically seen, we live in the post-democratic era already. EU-crisis and war on terror only speed things up. Democracy is on the defense globally, and in substance saw constant decline since the past years already. Foreign countries turning "democratic" should not be judged by the mechanisms by which radical and totalitarian elements are voted into power. What counts by the end of the day, is the outcome, the final result. And seen that way, corruption and fanatism and fundamentalism have spread and pushed freedom back.

[mapuc]

Please help me out in this discussion

I have tried to read every post in this thread

BUT

There's a few things that I don't understand

Why should the President or the American Government put USA into some kind of state of emergency

There's absolutely no reason for it.

Markus

[CaptainMattJ.]

No, I get that part, and I wasn't saying that it did.

What I was getting at is that the idea behind the PCA is that a military force should not be used to enforce civil laws, but since the line between police and military is now so blurred, why even have it in the first place?
There have been many situations, and many possible situations, where the average shotgun carried in most police cruisers isn't going to be enough to win a shootout. Instead of having our military perform hostage, shootout, and hold out takedowns, we have SWAT. They aren't called out very often, and the aren't patrolling the streets, they only respond to crisis situations, such as the shootout with Dorner.

There's plenty reason to have SWAT, and i dont understand why this is an issue. SWAT is not a military-grade law enforcement force. You think that the presence of submachine guns and rifles elevates them to military status? Civilians own AR-15s, the semi-automatic father of the m16, so civilains should own such a thing but law enforcement cannot? Because they have armor and armored trucks? SWAT is nowhere near military grade. Everything they have is necessary and useful.

[Ducimus]

:har: WOLVERINES!!!!

This is not good at all...I doubt it goes too far but there's always that chance. No matter how small the chance is, there's still a chance that it could happen. I'm not saying that every citizen needs to stock up and write up all their contingency plans but we need to stay informed. I'm by no means a political expert or anything but I think the Democratic Government is going to rip us apart.

What, you think I'm kidding?
http://www.wolverinegreen.com/

I do agree, the Democratic government is not good for the country in the long term. Granted a Republican government isn't much better, but i've come to believe the Democratic one will send us down the 1984 road a lot quicker.



Just do yourself a favor and do not imitate the tactics displayed in that movie (the original have not viewed and do not plan to view the remake) they would get you killed fairly quickly.Instead use the tactics of the NLF(AKA Viet Cong) or to be frankly honest the Taliban.They employ excellent guerrilla warfare tactics.Death by one thousand cuts such a death is very frustrating to the enemy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RS7wOfbbx8

Great link. One thing to mention is there's alot of veterans who've gone on Permanent Civillian Status that have alot of afganistan and iraq experience to bring to a gureilla warfare table. They would infact be the best instructors for the untrained.

Another thing to mention is that our armed forces and police have families. They don't live in a bubble, but within the local communities. If police and military were to take up arms on the citizenry, they should be concerned about their families by way of reprisal. Police and Military also rely on the local communities in order to operate. If the local communites ceased to provide support, they wouldn't make it very far. This goes doubly so for the police. Thank god for the second amendment eh?

And yeah, the movie is lame by todays standards. The original is an 80's styled teenie booper flick. The remake I have steadfastly refused to watch.

It is no all-of-a-sudden collapse at all, but a slow moving, creeping process over a longer time, with careful preparation of the public and erosion by educating the correct thinking and encouraging the right mind by using fear.


I believe skybird is 100% correct here.

[Stealhead]

Don't count out the older guys that fought in Vietnam many of those guys are tough as nails and have many skills.My dad can train people to fight Ranger style and I have met Nam vets that make him look like a sissy.

The most cheese laden 80's movie relating to fighting an oppressor would have to be Rambo 3 the one where he goes to Afghanistan............. cheesetomic bomb.

I would love to to see a cheese free political view free movie about the US being taken over and the people fighting back one that is harsh like the movie "Come and See" similar concept but in that flick takes place in the USSR during WWII and protagonist is a Russian teenage partisan good but brutal film it makes "Shindler's List" seem like a kindergarten film.

That old Army flick I posted I think the basic concept is not very far fetched the Us would no doubt split into several factions like that.

Ex SF Green Berets are an interesting bunch for sure and seeing as their motto is "De Oppresso Liber" (To Free the Oppressed) most active duty ones would have trouble supporting actions against their own people.

[Red October1984]

What, you think I'm kidding?

No. I believe you. :salute:

I do agree, the Democratic government is not good for the country in the long term. Granted a Republican government isn't much better, but i've come to believe the Democratic one will send us down the 1984 road a lot quicker.

We just need to get stablized at this point. I think we should have an Independent but Conservative government. We need to get rid of the electoral college and we need to reduce the power of the political parties. Republicans give us the better answer to the equation and yes they have an equal chance of eventually running us into the ground. We need people who know what they need to to and who will listen to the citizens.


Great link. One thing to mention is there's alot of veterans who've gone on Permanent Civillian Status that have alot of afganistan and iraq experience to bring to a gureilla warfare table. They would infact be the best instructors for the untrained.

Another thing to mention is that our armed forces and police have families. They don't live in a bubble, but within the local communities. If police and military were to take up arms on the citizenry, they should be concerned about their families by way of reprisal. Police and Military also rely on the local communities in order to operate. If the local communites ceased to provide support, they wouldn't make it very far. This goes doubly so for the police. Thank god for the second amendment eh?

This is an excellent point. The reason we have the 2nd Amendment is to protect against an oppressive government. If they send in the troops, we'll fight back. Sometimes when I get bored, I think about different What If scenarios to pass the time. I've got a pretty darn good zombie survival plan and I'm still formulating my Red Dawn plan. The thing is, no plan survives first contact with the enemy.

And yeah, the movie is lame by todays standards. The original is an 80's styled teenie booper flick. The remake I have steadfastly refused to watch.

I saw the remake for free on canned food drive day at the movie theater. It sucked if you want a realistic scenario. Otherwise, it was decent. The one thing I hated the most was the acting. Chris Hemsworth is good but that's it. Nobody else can give a convincing line in the movie. Compared to the original, it sucked bigtime. The only thing I hated about the original was that it involved the Cubans. If you look at these as fiction and you know going in that it's going to be a tactical letdown, you can enjoy them. I like the concept. It makes for a hell of a good story but if you were to do it for real it would need to play out a little different. :yep:

[Stealhead]

Actually the fact that it involved Cubans did make a bit of sense the Soviets would have to use Cuba as an FOB for its airborne forces to be able to load up on IL-76s and drop over the US.

If you take into consideration the political view prevalent amongst more right wing conservatives during the 1980's the original film makes a lot of sense.At that time the US government was supporting the Contras who where fighting communist Sandinista forces in Nicaragua.It was the 1980's version of the "Domino Theory".In fact in the film the Sandinista's won and have control of Nicaragua.

There is also a scene in the film where they go to all the local gun stores and gather up the ATF form 4473s so they can find gun owners.The things that I find a bit silly about Red Dawn is that it claims that all of the European nations left NATO which would never happen.But they did that because European governments where seen as being socialist and perhaps willing to deal with the Soviets if pushed a very right wing fear and also in line with the general view that a socialist viewpoint is weak and unwilling to face a military threat if pushed.The other factor that I dislike is how the insurgent force never grows in size in reality insurgencies tend to grow over time.

I have read that the writers of Red Dawn wanted to produce a "Right Wing" counter to the film "The Day After"(which actually has no clear political viewpoint) this film was shown on Tv in 1983 and Ronald Regan actually viewed an unedited version before it aired and it did make an impression on him.As far as I am aware Mr. Regan never viewed Red Dawn."The Day After" is much more realistic and deals with a nuclear war between the USA and the USSR.The beginning scenes where it shows military people inside a missile silo and at a B-52 base is actually real life footage filmed for a documentary a few years earlier the attack scene in TDA is also fairly accurate they first target the missile silos and before that they hit the area with an EMP from a warhead that detonates a high altitude at the same time they target the B-52 bases and submarine ports."The Day After" is a fairly good 80's war film though it does lack the culty-ness of "Red Dawn".

In the Film TDA the Soviets force the US to capitulate because the Soviets achieve a first strike and have destroyed the US armed forces offensive capabilities this part of the plot would have had an effect on Mr.Regan because he wanted to protect the United States from exactly such an event actually occurring that why he favored SDI so strongly of course he had this idea before TDA even filmed.Ask your history teacher about all that and and the Contras but dont give any clues just ask about Nicaragua and SDI.

The other failing of "Red Dawn" is that most people see it as being anti-government rather than anti-Soviet which was not the writers intent.People like "Red Dawn" because an oppressive government is being opposed by force.If they where to make a film about American citizens resisting an aggressively oppressive government it would sell like hot cakes.

[Red October1984]

Actually the fact that it involved Cubans did make a bit of sense the Soviets would have to use Cuba as an FOB for its airborne forces to be able to load up on IL-76s and drop over the US.

That's what I was thinking...But...In the movie, Soviet paratroopers land in Colorado. The IL-76 doesn't have that kind of range to get to Colorado and back does it?

Even if it did, how did it get past Radar? NORAD and stuff.... Would they have flown in the commercial lanes and pretended to be airliners? If they did that, how could they have gotten that far?

Cuba would make sense as an FOB but wouldn't you think they would go for the East Coast and Gulf Coast rather than Colorado? :06:

[Stealhead]

That's what I was thinking...But...In the movie, Soviet paratroopers land in Colorado. The IL-76 doesn't have that kind of range to get to Colorado and back does it?

Even if it did, how did it get past Radar? NORAD and stuff.... Would they have flown in the commercial lanes and pretended to be airliners? If they did that, how could they have gotten that far?

Cuba would make sense as an FOB but wouldn't you think they would go for the East Coast and Gulf Coast rather than Colorado? :06:


You really expect Hollywood to think of that stuff? And they could simply go on a one way mission so its not outside the realm of possibility.The SAC B-52s that would have been a one way mission.

As you say an enemy would target industrial areas if they where planning on taking control of another country.

An internal war is much more feasible all though even that would be unlikely because there just are not enough truly dedicated combatants the people really into such acts right now a total wing nuts and only in small numbers and they would lack the support of the general population not because they dislike the government but because they typically racist organizations and most people have a problem with that.

I for one would be more than willing to resist an oppressive government but I have as much of a problem with racists so if they where active in a fictionalized US civil war situation they would be in my sights just the same as someone wearing the uniform of a tyrannical government in that case the enemy of my enemy is not my friend.One tyrannical ideology replacing another sounds bad to me.

I had a "friend" in the USAF once tell me all sorts of things "Turner Dairy" sort of things and things about how wonderful Hitler and the Nazis where.I guess he thought I felt the same way as he did not sure why at the time I was married to a Korean woman and he knew this.:hmmm: Of course some Koreans are a bit racist.

Anyway I did not say anything to him nor did I mention it because there where others like him got to watch your back and all.Thier where also a lot generally anti-government folks in the military that where not wing nuts or racists and there there where also hard core government loyalists.So myself in my experience I dont put faith in the idea that every vet will be on the same page if certain events where to happen.In the end you have to believe in what you believe in and stand up for it.

[Red October1984]

You really expect Hollywood to think of that stuff? And they could simply go on a one way mission so its not outside the realm of possibility.The SAC B-52s that would have been a one way mission.

As you say an enemy would target industrial areas if they where planning on taking control of another country.

I don't expect Hollywood to know the difference between a pistol and a submachine gun. Sometimes they surprise me when they throw night vision goggles into the mix. :har: There was one time, they even knew which end of the gun to point at the enemy. :rotfl2:

Joking aside, there have been some very well done war movies and there have been some terrible ones. It's all in how you look at it. You were in the military so you look at it from that point of view. The Average Civillian doesn't think in the way of tactics, realism, and plausibility when watching a movie. Me, I notice little things here and there but I try to watch the movie without thinking of tactics and stuff along those lines. One example would be U-571. The most hated submarine movie that exists. An Average Joe who doesn't know anything about submarines will like that movie but if you are Werner Bruckheim Commander of the U-379 you will look at it from a realistic point of view and probably hate it.

An internal war is much more feasible all though even that would be unlikely because there just are not enough truly dedicated combatants the people really into such acts right now a total wing nuts and only in small numbers and they would lack the support of the general population not because they dislike the government but because they typically racist organizations and most people have a problem with that.

I for one would be more than willing to resist an oppressive government but I have as much of a problem with racists so if they where active in a fictionalized US civil war situation they would be in my sights just the same as someone wearing the uniform of a tyrannical government in that case the enemy of my enemy is not my friend.One tyrannical ideology replacing another sounds bad to me.

None of it is good. If a war does break out and the American Nazi Party gains control, it'll just be another fight against another tyrant and the process will just repeat. Then, you have to think. I saw a stat on the KKK which puts it at about 3000 members right now. Let's say the American Nazi Party has 5000 and the Democrats/Republicans have 15,000. Let's say that 8,000 of those are armed.

8000 D/R vs. 3000 KKK vs. ANP's 5000. Then you have to think where the military and national guard will divide up.

Unless we become a minority in a big way, I don't see the racist groups winning an internal war. If they did, it wouldn't last long I would think. There are too many variables IMHO. You can't accurately predict something like this. :hmmm: There is always somebody out there who is against your way of thinking.

I may be dead wrong in my thinking...but looking at it objectively this is one possible way I can see things happening.

[Catfish]

Hi,
[...]
Why should the President or the American Government put USA into some kind of state of emergency. There's absolutely no reason for it.
Markus
Huh ? What is an emergency state for you ? The US are in a state of war, which allows any action be taken for limiting free speech and censorship, as using military and police forces against anything that might threaten the country. Remember the states of risk of a terror attack introduced then, like condition orange, red etc. ?
This is why it is called a WAR against terrorism. "Without an “outside enemy”, there could be no “war on terrorism”. "

Post-9/11 permanent state of war should have ended long ago:
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2011-09-08/opinions/35274246_1_qaeda-unnecessary-war-taliban-regime

9/11 AND AMERICA’S “WAR ON TERRORISM”:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/9-11-and-america-s-war-on-terrorism/24975

America's never-ending war state:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/46979745/vp/50753972#50753972

Do you think any of the eavesdropping laws like the NSA reading every of you eMails woud have passed congress without an emergency ?

So it seems that some people might not like that, or the general conduct of this war policy, so here's for dealing with them. It is targeted at the left though, i take it the right wingers are perfectly ok with what the US does, and has done ? I mean ok it is Obama, but doesn't he do what Bush would have done, abroad ?

This comitatus thing (what a pompous nonsense name b.t.w.) - does anyone know what "comitatus" even means, in that respect ?!
:03:

I do not mean that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_(organization, but in the classical sense -

[Ducimus]

I for one would be more than willing to resist an oppressive government but I have as much of a problem with racists so if they where active in a fictionalized US civil war situation they would be in my sights just the same as someone wearing the uniform of a tyrannical government in that case the enemy of my enemy is not my friend.One tyrannical ideology replacing another sounds bad to me.

Same here. Right now, any named "militia" in our society currently has two connotations associated with. Anti-government extremists and/or White Supremacists. If a movement to resist an oppressive government were to materialize, one would have to make sure it is properly constituted, less you throw your lot in with the nutjobs.


I had a "friend" in the USAF once tell me all sorts of things "Turner Dairy" sort of things and things about how wonderful Hitler and the Nazis where.I guess he thought I felt the same way as he did not sure why at the time I was married to a Korean woman and he knew this.:hmmm: Of course some Koreans are a bit racist.

I ran into my own dealings with racism in the USAF. Nothing as spectacular. I was stationed at Keesler for a year or so, and found out just how the southern boys stationed there really felt about some people. Thankfully, one day i learned i was "in the club" by virtue of not being black. "Yeah when we saw your name and heard you was coming, we thought you was black. But, you're alright". After I heard that, they were a little more open with me. I just kept my mouth shut. And koreans can be very racist themselves. They are a very proud and stupid people. I wonder if that comment is racism too? :haha:

[Red October1984]

I wonder if that comment is racism too? :haha:

In America these days, if you open your mouth in an elevator full of African American people you are considered Racist.

It seems that way at least. Political Correctness is one of our major weaknesses IMO. You can't please everybody. You can do stuff politely without trying to please every group out there.

[Tchocky]

GT US Civil War Prediction Count

http://i.imgur.com/UvKbxZW.jpg

[Stealhead]

@Ducimus I think personally some people say a lot of racist talk but then they will also have a friend or co-worker that is the race they seem to dislike and they always have the "they are an exception" mentality.:har:

One thing that has always bugged me is how people think that people down south are all prejudice.Man that really ticks me off.True we might have a history down here but other parts of the country where/are just as bad if not worse but that fact always gets swept under the rug.

@Red October I am not sure what makes you feel that even opening your mouth in the presence of a certain group of people automatically makes you racist.Don't complain about PC and then use the most PC term there is to to describe a certain race.

I use the term "black" because I have had many black friends and peers and that is the term that 95% of them use to describe themselves.At the same time I typically do not use a racial or ethnic term to describe someone unless it has some relevance to the topic at hand.


For example if I buy a car from a car salesman his race has no particular relevance if I where to describe to someone the event of buying the car.

I personally feel that focusing heavily on race/ethnicity when it has no true relevance plays heavily into the hands of both the PC nuts and the racists.

As to the whole civil war thing I think honestly that it is pretty unlikely.Sooner or later (hopefully sooner) enough Americans of all stripes will grow tired of governmental ineptness and vote accordingly and something will be done about our broken system and Congress members will no longer be able to draw their own district boundaries and they will change how elections will be funded so on so fourth.Like I have said before apathy is the worst human trait right now there are too many apathetic citizens.

[Red October1984]

Don't complain about PC and then use the most PC term there is to to describe a certain race.

That was a poor attempt at irony. :03:


I generally say Black instead of African American. I've got black friends too.

There is something that really is strange. Have you ever wondered why it's okay for a black guy to call another one the N word but the moment a white guy says it you better call the NAACP?

There's these two black/african american/whatever you prefer guys on my baseball team. One is a player and the other one helps coach. They're both brothers. (They're family. I'm not being racist.) They refer to themselves as the N word and they even do to certain others they know and that's even how they refer to other blacks. There's another guy on my team who is a complete idiot and he decides to say "What's up my N" and he gets flattened by a punch.

Why is it okay to use derogatory terms for your own race but when somebody else uses it it's offensive. You see this in rap music and movies all the time.

A classic example is the scene from Rush Hour where Carter and Lee go to the pool hall/bar thing. Det. Carter (Black) walks into the bar and says "What's up my N" to the guy behind the counter and Det. Lee (Asian) walks in and says the same thing and then every black guy in there launches an attack. I've seen it in movies, music and real life.

Just one of the unanswered questions floating around in my head.

EDIT: WAIT! I passed 3000 posts 47 posts ago! I missed it! Dang...

[eddie]

I have a real hard time believing the NSA can read all our emails. With over 100 million computers in the US alone, along with all the tablets, cell phones, etc. Think of all the emails going around everyday, how the heck are they going to read them all. They might flag certain emails from certain groups or if the emails are going over seas on a regular basis, but everyones emails, everyday?
You'll never convince me that they can do that.

[Platapus]

You'll never convince me that they can do that.

Especially considering the NSA budget and the fact that they have a responsibility for monitoring a bunch of foreign countries.

[eddie]

Especially considering the NSA budget and the fact that they have a responsibility for monitoring a bunch of foreign countries.

And how many analysts do you think they would need to do that?:D

[Platapus]

And how many analysts do you think they would need to do that?:D

Quite a few actually. Computers, even if the NSA had enough, can only do part of the work.

[Red October1984]

I have a real hard time believing the NSA can read all our emails. With over 100 million computers in the US alone, along with all the tablets, cell phones, etc. Think of all the emails going around everyday, how the heck are they going to read them all. They might flag certain emails from certain groups or if the emails are going over seas on a regular basis, but everyones emails, everyday?
You'll never convince me that they can do that.

ECHELON (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON)

This thing supposedly intercepts all of our electronic communication.

Yes, it might intercept and log it....but nobody will ever get around to reading it all. I would think that they have a list of "hot" words. When a certain number of those words shows up in an email they flag it for reading.

That's my guess.

[Tribesman]

Yes, it might intercept and log it....but nobody will ever get around to reading it all. I would think that they have a list of "hot" words. When a certain number of those words shows up in an email they flag it for reading.

That's my guess.
Its like the British system at Cheltenham which monitors phone calls in europe or made to europe.
Start every phone conversation with the word semtex and some poor analyst will have to listen to every detail of your everyday conversations.

Just one of the unanswered questions floating around in my head.

Red october, your question answers itself.

[Catfish]

I have a real hard time believing the NSA can read all our emails.

You better do.

" [...] and stored in near-bottomless databases will be all forms of communication, including the complete contents of private emails, cell phone calls, and Google searches, as well as all sorts of personal data trails—parking receipts, travel itineraries, bookstore purchases, and other digital “pocket litter. [...]”

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/all/

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/nsa-insider-you-are-the-target-theyre-pulling-together-all-the-data-about-virtually-every-u-s-citizen-in-the-country_07192012

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/03/16/new-details-on-nsas-new-spy-center-and-secrets-from-domestic-eavesdropping-operation-stellar-wind/

They do not read or listen to personally, of course. The system is called scraping, and it involves anything you do with any digital device (except a Texas Instruments TI30 maybe).

[Ducimus]

GT US Civil War Prediction Count

http://i.imgur.com/UvKbxZW.jpg

It certainly isn't beyond the realm of possibilities. I think slowly over time things are edging to a point where something may or may not happen. Most assuredly the more nutty amongst us will lead the way.

Not quite on cnn or foxnews yet, but:

Open Carry March In Washington Seeks To Put 'Government On Notice' With Loaded Rifles (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/06/open-carry-march-washington_n_3222511.html)

Then there's the social media on youtube:
Armed March on DC - Shay's Rebellion II -- Not Recommended (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZE0FC_P3h8)
Armed March on DC - Bad Idea (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhBE0Vnso8c)
July 4th DC Marchers are Only Looking for Trouble (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPbJSQAgNcw)

I'll be interested to see if/what happens of this. Now, one overzealous dude with a microphone and a dumb idea does not the making of a civil war make. However, what i do wonder is if this a proverbial icerberg that may surface itself completely some years hence. That i think, will be indicated by how many people show up for this march. If this Adam Kohesh person musters up a several thousand people for this march, then it could be the tip of the icerberg- just the most extreme part showing itself first. Personally I find the idea of several thousand people showing up for this disturbing, which is why i think of it as an indicator.

I know myself, I am extremely dissatisfied. Seven months ago, i could have cared less about anything. Now I find myself questioning and scrutinizing everything that is going on. I wonder how many people across the country, are just like myself. Having gone from uncaring to overly concerned in a short period of time. I don't think it's time yet to go anywhere near a cartridge box, but I do not consider the idea so far removed as to be out of the realm of possibilities.

[Catfish]

I wonder what happens if the next election 'fails to elect' a republican.
:-?

[Platapus]

I wonder what happens if the next election 'fails to elect' a republican.
:-?


Well, if the GOP continues to offer up the type of candidates that they have recently, there will continue to be more Republicans and Independents (and perhaps even Democrats) voting against the GOP candidate.

I will be glad to consider a GOP candidate. Bu they have to offer me something better than McCain and Romney. :yep:

Sad when Romney was the best of the best of the best of the GOP. :shifty:

[Stealhead]

There is something that really is strange. Have you ever wondered why it's okay for a black guy to call another one the N word but the moment a white guy says it you better call the NAACP?



Well I notice that some black people use the word "nigga" as a term of endearment and "******" as an insult.Personally I think that its stupid to use an insulting word like that the majority of black people I know/have known do not use that vernacular.

I have seen white people call each other "honky" some times and I think that is just as stupid.How you can use a term in one context and have no problem and then flip out in another context is utter stupidity.

I notice in both cases the use of such terms is more common with poorly educated people.

[Red October1984]

Well I notice that some black people use the word "nigga" as a term of endearment and "******" as an insult.Personally I think that its stupid to use an insulting word like that the majority of black people I know/have known do not use that vernacular.

I have seen white people call each other "honky" some times and I think that is just as stupid.How you can use a term in one context and have no problem and then flip out in another context is utter stupidity.

I notice in both cases the use of such terms is more common with poorly educated people.

I think it's stupid too.

By poorly educated you mean the guy with his pants sagging halfway down and a backwards hat complete with chain and wife-beater shirt?

I know exactly who you're talking about. :O:

[Sailor Steve]

There is something that really is strange. Have you ever wondered why it's okay for a black guy to call another one the N word but the moment a white guy says it you better call the NAACP?

...

Why is it okay to use derogatory terms for your own race but when somebody else uses it it's offensive. You see this in rap music and movies all the time.

...

Just one of the unanswered questions floating around in my head.
It's quite simple really. Have you ever called a friend a rude, insulting name? Jim and I do it on skype all the time. If a stranger, or even a casual aquaintance, used that kind of language to me there would be words if not blows exchanged.

The 'N' word is a corruption of a racial descriptive, which in itself is nothing more, but the word was used for a couple of centuries to keep black people "in their place". It was meant to be insulting and derogatory, and was never used any other way. For me to say that word to a black person is the same as using any other rude or insulting term. For a black man to use it on a friend is the same as some of the names my friends and I have called each other. Insulting in a friendly way, which is accepted among friends.

It also depends on the cultural context. Busta Rhymes or Snoop Dogg probably think it's cool when their friends use that language. Neil deGrasse Tyson and Annette Gordon-Reed probably would not.

Not really a question at all in my mind.

[Stealhead]

I think it's stupid too.
By poorly educated you mean the guy with his pants sagging halfway down and a backwards hat complete with chain and wife-beater shirt?


Not necessarily.The style your talking about is worn by a lot of people and I do not think that each one of them is poorly educated they might have poor taste in my opinion.

I have seen people that do not dress in that style use the whole "N" thing.Maybe poorly educated was a poor choice of words.Personally I find the idea that racial slur be wrong in one case but acceptable in another pretty foolish it is too easy to card that out in my opinion.


Something that I can understand is a "right" that some black fraternities started doing back in the 70's.What they did/do is get a brand on their body the idea behind this was that they are symbolically placing ownership onto themselves.It is a throw back to the slave days where many slave owners would brand their slaves to show ownership.Their is a symbolism to getting the brand willingly.Of course most black people you can see the brand in that case they did it for some other reason.The frat version would have been hidden from plan view.

[Red October1984]

Well you guys make sense and you answer my question/thought.

:arrgh!: I declare this thread properly derailed.

Moving on to the next big debate... :salute: