[WIP] Dive times&crew not going below deck in time fix

[Rubini]

Hi guys,

SH5 have yet some basic issues not fixed (at least that I know).
The dive times super-really fast and consequentelly the crew not going below deck in time is one of that.
After some hours messing here and there I found a workaround and fixed these issues.

Now the dive times are almost 1´20" sec for normal dives and 40" for crash time, the crew is going below/updeck perfectelly (not more crew outside below water!!), much more realistic without any side effect. :woot:

This workaround changes the ballast values (is not easy to note what and in what exact order to change there) and also the script for Ai crew commands behaviour, making the crew dive/surface behaviour almost perfect.

Before any mod release i should like to know if a mod for these issues already exist or not, as I`m relativelly "new" to SH5 and should like to avoid unnecessary work.

Thanks in any advice.:up:

[volodya61]

..Now the dive times are almost 1´20" sec for normal dives and 40" for crash time, the crew is going below/updeck perfectelly (not more crew outside below water!!), much more realistic without any side effect. :woot:

Hi Rubini :sunny:

It's great news :up:
But how these changes will be compatible with some must-have mods :hmm2:
I mean:
More Crew Commands by Dialog - http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=166236
MightyFine Crew Mod - http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=163591

Almost all players use these mods..

[Rubini]

Hi Rubini :sunny:

It's great news :up:
But how these changes will be compatible with some must-have mods :hmm2:
I mean:
More Crew Commands by Dialog - http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=166236
MightyFine Crew Mod - http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=163591

Almost all players use these mods..

Thanks volodya61 by the info. Sometime ago (an year) i made a mod for MFC/MCCD/SBDM fixing the crash dive time issue/crew above deck, so I´m awared about them.:up: But this old fix never touched the others dives commands that are also very fast and frequentlly the crew also stay in the deck submerged. This new workaround solve totally all these issues, including the crash dive time again (as described on the new times on the first post). The dive times are now reallistic for an uboat simulation/game as it mut be since it´s release.
So, no others mods that have already fixed these dive time issues:hmmm:?

[volodya61]

So, no others mods that have already fixed these dive time issues:hmmm:?

As far as I know, no.. still very fast dive.. :yep:

[gap]

As far as I know, no.. still very fast dive.. :yep:

I am currently working on making guns on deck and on the conning tower to affect sensibly dive times. I only hope that the Additional Drag Coeficients are applied correctly in game :)

P.S: looking forward to your mod Rubini. :up:
but make sure that it will be compatible with the popular mods pointed by Volodya :03:

[Dogfish40]

Hi guys,

SH5 have yet some basic issues not fixed (at least that I know).
The dive times super-really fast and consequentelly the crew not going below deck in time is one of that.
After some hours messing here and there I found a workaround and fixed these issues.

Now the dive times are almost 1´20" sec for normal dives and 40" for crash time, the crew is going below/updeck perfectelly (not more crew outside below water!!), much more realistic without any side effect. :woot:

This workaround changes the ballast values (is not easy to note what and in what exact order to change there) and also the script for Ai crew commands behaviour, making the crew dive/surface behaviour almost perfect.

Before any mod release i should like to know if a mod for these issues already exist or not, as I`m relativelly "new" to SH5 and should like to avoid unnecessary work.

Thanks in any advice.:up:

Hi Rubini.
I remember reading a question about this before and I searched for anyone working a mod like that. There is no mod out for this particular issue. The only thing that even came close was for crash dives. If you're using TDW's UI there is a delay setting so you can extend the amout of time between ordering and the actual dive commencing.
I think someone was trying to look into this but it was specifically for crash dives.
D40:up:

[volodya61]

..there is a delay setting so you can extend the amout of time between ordering and the actual dive commencing..

If you are talking about this option - Time delay before crash dive order is given, I think it only simulates crew clearing the conning tower deck and not the dive time itself..

[Rubini]

Hi Rubini.
I remember reading a question about this before and I searched for anyone working a mod like that. There is no mod out for this particular issue. The only thing that even came close was for crash dives. If you're using TDW's UI there is a delay setting so you can extend the amout of time between ordering and the actual dive commencing.
I think someone was trying to look into this but it was specifically for crash dives.
D40:up:

Thanks Dogfish by the info. Like volodya said, the option provide on TDW's UI is just cosmetic, don't really change the dive time, the crew freq. stay on deck and also don't fix anything on others dives commands. Anyway if TDW could expand this wait time forr alll dive commands i can fix the crew behaviour, resulting in also a good mod. but for now i willwill adjust the ballast for a good {and real] dive behaviour with the crew script. If we have time and good ideas we could also try to fix the surface time that is also so much fast and totally irrealistic.

[Rubini]

I am currently working on making guns on deck and on the conning tower to affect sensibly dive times. I only hope that the Additional Drag Coeficients are applied correctly in game :)

P.S: looking forward to your mod Rubini. :up:
but make sure that it will be compatible with the popular mods pointed by Volodya :03:

Nice idea gap! Objects drag can also be good and also very realistic. Btw, i have not yet looked at the surface time that is also ridiculous, but seems that it didn't changed with ballast adjusts like the dive time. Any idea?

[gap]

Nice idea gap! Objects drag can also be good and also very realistic. Btw, i have not yet looked at the surface time that is also ridiculous, but seems that it didn't changed with ballast adjusts like the dive time. Any idea?

Dive planes drag coefficient maybe? :hmm2:

[Rubini]

Dive planes drag coefficient maybe? :hmm2:
And about Engine power? Perhaps we can also make the uboat with more realistic movement too? (I mean turn time, accleration time, etc):hmm2:

[gap]

And about Engine power? Perhaps we can also make the uboat with more realistic movement too? (I mean turn time, accleration time, etc):hmm2:

many have attempted overhauling U-boat specifications in an attempt to make them closer to the historical ones. The most popular mod of these mods was U-boat Historical Specifications (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1364728&postcount=1) by ddrgn. When I started hanging around on subsim, it was considered a must have mod but then, dunno why, it disappeared from player's mod lists (maybe merged into New UI's :hmmm:)

Answering to your question: side effects are around the corner, but why not attempting? :up:

[GT182]

I believe crash dives were delayed only for the time it took the crew to scramble to the front of the boat. Their combined weight was the big factor in be able to do a crash dive. Watch the movie U-571 again. ;)

Now modding the crew to scramble to the front of the boat would be something to see. Except for those needed in the engine room for a crash dive.

[Hartmann]

The weight of the crew could influde a bit but i think that no too much.
Every member weight about 70-80 kg and the boat 700 tons

The most important factor was the flooding of main ballast tanks combined with the bow an stern planes with the forward motion .

[gap]

The weight of the crew could influde a bit but i think that no too much.
Every member weight about 70-80 kg and the boat 700 tons

The most important factor was the flooding of main ballast tanks combined with the bow an stern planes with the forward motion .

Agree. :yep:

unit_Submarine properties which may affect diving times in game:

Front_diveplane => drag (Diveplane's efficiency coeficient)
Rear_diveplane => drag (" ")
Ballast => ManBT_flood_speed (Max main ballast tanks flood speed [l/s])
Ballast => DiveBT_flood_speed (Max dive ballast tanks flood speed [l/s])

Deck and Flak guns FR additional drag coefficients might play a role :up:

[Hartmann]

Agree. :yep:

unit_Submarine properties which may affect diving times in game:

Front_diveplane => drag (Diveplane's efficiency coeficient)
Rear_diveplane => drag (" ")
Ballast => ManBT_flood_speed (Max main ballast tanks flood speed [l/s])
Ballast => DiveBT_flood_speed (Max dive ballast tanks flood speed [l/s])

Deck and Flak guns FR additional drag coefficients might play a role :up:

Thanks , Very interesting and useful information :up:

[Rubini]

Agree. :yep:

unit_Submarine properties which may affect diving times in game:

Front_diveplane => drag (Diveplane's efficiency coeficient)
Rear_diveplane => drag (" ")
Ballast => ManBT_flood_speed (Max main ballast tanks flood speed [l/s])
Ballast => DiveBT_flood_speed (Max dive ballast tanks flood speed [l/s])

Deck and Flak guns FR additional drag coefficients might play a role :up:
Very busy in RL these last days but after made a lot of tests, for sh5 engine, the best workaround (without any side effect) is just change the ManBT_flood_speed from 10000 to 4500 or 3500 (no others changes are necessary). With 4500 you will have 35 sec for CD and 65 sec for others dives. Using 3500 you will have 40sec for CD and 1min30sec for others dives. The dives planes will change these times just a bit - If you change them too much (dive_planes values) you will have side effects. The surface time is also rised a bit, but not so much (just few seconds from -100 to surface).

The crew needs 20sec to go below, so all the above values are enough to correct both issues: so fast dive times and crew yet above deck under water issue.

(If using .sim files from TDW an hex edit is necessary as they aren´t oppened by S3D or Goblin)

As these are just simple changes i guess that a mod isn´t necessary. Each one can do it for your .sim files in use and we are done.:yep:

If you try these values let we know the results too. I´m very satisfied with them.

[gap]

Very busy in RL these last days but after made a lot of tests, for sh5 engine, the best workaround (without any side effect) is just change the ManBT_flood_speed from 10000 to 4500 or 3500 (no others changes are necessary). With 4500 you will have 35 sec for CD and 65 sec for others dives. Using 3500 you will have 40sec for CD and 1min30sec for others dives. The dives planes will change these times just a bit - If you change them too much (dive_planes values) you will have side effects. The surface time is also rised a bit, but not so much (just few seconds from -100 to surface).

Thank you for sharing mate :salute:


The crew needs 20sec to go below, so all the above values are enough to correct both issues: so fast dive times and crew yet above deck under water issue.

:up:


(If using .sim files from TDW an hex edit is necessary as they aren´t oppened by S3D or Goblin)

Are you sure? I just opened one of them using Goblin :hmm2:


As these are just simple changes i guess that a mod isn´t necessary. Each one can do it for your .sim files in use and we are done.:yep:

If you try these values let we know the results too. I´m very satisfied with them.

Have you given up the idea of a general U-boat specs overhaul? :huh: :-?

[NoLine]

Very busy in RL these last days but after made a lot of tests, for sh5 engine, the best workaround (without any side effect) is just change the ManBT_flood_speed from 10000 to 4500 or 3500 (no others changes are necessary). With 4500 you will have 35 sec for CD and 65 sec for others dives. Using 3500 you will have 40sec for CD and 1min30sec for others dives. The dives planes will change these times just a bit - If you change them too much (dive_planes values) you will have side effects. The surface time is also rised a bit, but not so much (just few seconds from -100 to surface).

The crew needs 20sec to go below, so all the above values are enough to correct both issues: so fast dive times and crew yet above deck under water issue.

(If using .sim files from TDW an hex edit is necessary as they aren´t oppened by S3D or Goblin)

As these are just simple changes i guess that a mod isn´t necessary. Each one can do it for your .sim files in use and we are done.:yep:

If you try these values let we know the results too. I´m very satisfied with them.

Hi Rubini, are you sure about this, cause when i tried this (a while back) I could change the normal dive (even to the point it couldnt dive anymore) but crashdiving kept the same speed no matter what.
Imo this is the most anoying bug in sh5 and i hope it gets/is resolved.

NoLine

[gap]

Hi Rubini, are you sure about this, cause when i tried this (a while back) I could change the normal dive (even to the point it couldnt dive anymore) but crashdiving kept the same speed no matter what.
Imo this is the most anoying bug in sh5 and i hope it gets/is resolved.

NoLine

Which one of the two flood_speed settings had you tweaked?

[NoLine]

Which one of the two flood_speed settings had you tweaked?

I would guess all (both?) off them, does it work for you Gap ?
I am tempted to reinstall sh5 :)

NoLine

[gap]

I would guess all (both?) off them, does it work for you Gap ?

I don't really know; I asked because Rubini seems to only have messed with main ballast's flood speed. Let's wait for some clarification by him.

I am tempted to reinstall sh5 :)

Do it! :03: :)

[Rubini]

Hi Rubini, are you sure about this, cause when i tried this (a while back) I could change the normal dive (even to the point it couldnt dive anymore) but crashdiving kept the same speed no matter what.
Imo this is the most anoying bug in sh5 and i hope it gets/is resolved.

NoLine
@Hi NoLine, how are you mate?
@gap,

I played a lot with the two ballasts values, the dive_planes and the engine power. My best and more noticiable good results was just about ManBT_flood_speed changes. And it alone had almost the same results, and the more important without side effects like I said.

But...i have a self modded SH5 and this may alter the results. As it works here, it can be work for you too. I guess that the main influence is by this mod:

"Crash Dive time and set_depth problem with MightyFine Crew Mod solved!" ( http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=192938 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=192938))

Obviously I have tried also without this mod and then, like Noline said, seems, IIRC, that the mod wokrs more for others dives orders than to the CD (it only modified it for few seconds).

Conclusion: try to use the above mod and then open your uboat .sim file, change the ManBT_flood_speed to 4500 or 3500 and see if you now have the same times that i have for CD and others dive orders like I described some posts above.

(BTW, for the CD time problem is also possible to make it have the same time of the normal dive (plus the flank ahead speed gain), it must be done on crew scripts commands, it´s very easy. It´s just another way to solve the problem.)

Sorry to be so confuse, my english is very bad.
If we confirm my results and a complete mod was necessary i can then release a package.

@gap, I have no intentions to make a complete uboat physics workaround, but I can help with some xp.:up:

[jean74]

Hi Rubini,

First of all, many thanks for all your works and helps with the silent hunter series.

Regarding hour problem with the diving time and the diving speed (completly unreal) for me, I did some test by modifying the file :

data\UPCDataGE\UPCCrewData\SpecialAbilities.upc

And the results are very interesting, because it seems that the diving time is longer (about 18 s) and the diving speed is not as fast as the original SH5 file.
More over, the sub blow ballast for emergency surface is not altered. :woot:

So I am quite sure that our problem is a "bug" located in this file.

I am not a good moder and I don't understand the use of all the parameters containing in this file, but I am sure that this information will interest you.

I hope it could help,

Best regards, :salute:


Jean

Of course, i did all tests without your mod.

[volodya61]

Thank you Jean :up:
What parameters have you changed exactly?

[jean74]

Thank you Jean :up:
What parameters have you changed exactly?

Hi Volodya61,

It's late and I don't have enough time and language skill to give you some explanation tonight. :wah:

But be sure I will post tomorrow a link for a downloadable SpecialAbilities.upc file with explanation :up:

Many thought are better than only mine.

If we could succed to correct this "bug" it would be super :woot:

Have a good night,

Best regards,

Jean

[gap]

Maybe this one? :hmm2:

;NAVIGATOR - Passive abilities

[SpecialAbility 11]
ID=Ability-Reduce-DivingSurface-Time
NameDisplayable=Ability-Reduce-DivingSurface-Time-Name
Description=Ability-Reduce-DivingSurface-Time-Description, Ability-Reduce-DivingSurface-Time-Description, Ability-Reduce-DivingSurface-Time-Description, Ability-Reduce-DivingSurface-Time-Description, Ability-Reduce-DivingSurface-Time-Description
Levels= 5
AbilityType=SurfaceSpeed, SubmergedSpeed ;reduce diving time and the time to get to surface (in percents)(ability missing??)
AbilityValue= 5, 5, 10, 10, 15, 15, 20, 20, 25, 25
AbilityInternalValue= 18.5, 17.25, 37, 34.5, 55.5, 51.75, 74, 69, 92.5, 86.25 ; factor1: 3.7, factor2: 3.45

PointsRequirement= 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
AbilityRequirements= 0, 1, Ability-Reduce-DivingSurface-Time, 1, 1, Ability-Reduce-DivingSurface-Time, 2, 1, Ability-Reduce-DivingSurface-Time, 3, 1, Ability-Reduce-DivingSurface-Time, 4
LevelUpTree= 2, 3, 4, 5, 0
MoraleCost= 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
PointsCost= 1, 1, 1, 1, 1

AbylityActsIn= ALL

Duration=0, 0, 0, 0, 0
Cooldown=0, 0, 0, 0, 0

[volodya61]

But be sure I will post tomorrow a link for a downloadable SpecialAbilities.upc file with explanation :up:

Okay.. thank you..
Regards :salute:

Maybe this one? :hmm2:

Maybe make sense to ask Rongel? He was playing around with this file a while ago :06:

[gap]

Maybe make sense to ask Rongel? He was playing around with this file a while ago :06:

:yep:

Rongel, do you copy? :D

[jean74]

Hi,

First, excuse me for that late reply due to real life (I am very busy at this time).

So, below you find the link to download the modified upc file.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxZJPssxM6Thblp0SWZvWHl6U1k/edit?usp=sharing

Sorry, but it's time for diner. :sunny:

I will post later some explanations...
I will write in about 45 mn.

Regards

Jean

[volodya61]

Hi,

First, excuse me for that late reply due to real life (I am very busy at this time).

So, below you find the link to download the modified upc file.

Hi Jean :salute:
I am not able to download anything from the posted link..

[jean74]

Hi,

Below my modifications


;NAVIGATOR - Passive abilities
[SpecialAbility 11] ; EXPERT NAVIGATOR
ID=Ability-Reduce-DivingSurface-Time
NameDisplayable=Ability-Reduce-DivingSurface-Time-Name
Description=Ability-Reduce-DivingSurface-Time-Description, Ability-Reduce-DivingSurface-Time-Description, Ability-Reduce-DivingSurface-Time-Description, Ability-Reduce-DivingSurface-Time-Description, Ability-Reduce-DivingSurface-Time-Description
Levels= 5
AbilityType=DiveSpeed ;reduce diving time and the time to get to surface (in percents)(ability missing??)
AbilityValue= 1, 1, 1, 1, 1

original file : AbilityType=FuelConsume
AbilityValue= -2, -4, -6, -8, -10
(original file from "reworked morale and abilities")

Of course with this Ability value there is no improvement for crew due to experience or ...

I will test later with AbilityValue= 5, 4, 3, 2, 1

I hope that a master like Rongel have a look to this post to comment it or improve it :woot:

Best regards,

Jean

[jean74]

Hi Jean :salute:
I am not able to download anything from the posted link..

I am definitively not a master with data processing :06:

Excuse me for the mistake, try this link,

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BxZJPssxM6Thblp0SWZvWHl6U1k/edit?usp=sharing

Regards

Jean

[volodya61]

I am definitively not a master with data processing :06:

OK.. got it.. will test it soon.. thank you :up:

[jean74]

OK.. got it.. will test it soon.. thank you :up:

You are welcome my friend,

Please post a report after test and let us know what do you think about it :yeah:

Regards,:salute:

Jean

[NoLine]

I tried this Jean74
In my (original) file it is like this :
AbilityValue= 5, 5, 10, 10, 15, 15, 20, 20, 25, 25

So I tried a couple combinations
AbilityValue= 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5
AbilityValue= -1, -1, -2, -2, -3, -3, -4, -4, -5, -5
AbilityValue= 0.05, 0.05, 0.010, 0.010, 0.015, 0.015, 0.020, 0.020, 0.025, 0.025

and unfortunately didn't saw any change in crash dive times

NoLine

[THE_MASK]

I tried this Jean74
In my (original) file it is like this :
AbilityValue= 5, 5, 10, 10, 15, 15, 20, 20, 25, 25

So I tried a couple combinations
AbilityValue= 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5
AbilityValue= -1, -1, -2, -2, -3, -3, -4, -4, -5, -5
AbilityValue= 0.05, 0.05, 0.010, 0.010, 0.015, 0.015, 0.020, 0.020, 0.025, 0.025

and unfortunately didn't saw any change in crash dive times

NoLineStart a new career to see any changes .

[NoLine]

Start a new career to see any changes .

I did and didn't see any changes.
Your saying I should see changes Sober ?

NoLine