Reducing the number of torpedoes carried

[Marcello]

From what I understand the type XXI was expected to go on patrol with three racks empty for servicing the torpedoes loaded in the tubes and such. The older u-boats would often not bother with the deck containers late in the war. Is there some way to simulate this?

[max-peck]

I'm pretty sure the torpedo loadout can be altered by editing the basic.cfg (In Data/cfg)

I'm at work at the moment though so I cannot double check.

[La vache]

Hallo Marcello

In Basic.cfg the torpedo loading is defined. You could do this for every type of boat and year. Torpedo types are defined by an index.
For an empty pipe or storage, they enter a -1. 0 stands for the type TI (G7a).

greeting

[Wreford-Brown]

What torpedo loadout would you like? I could create a simple SH3 Commander mod which will reduce your loadout while being fully compatible with any other mod/supermod.

[Marcello]

What torpedo loadout would you like? I could create a simple SH3 Commander mod which will reduce your loadout while being fully compatible with any other mod/supermod.

I would have to do more research, to be honest. For the type XXI, that I am more concerned with but I doubt it is of great interest to most players, the diagrams show that three racks were left empty for servicing.

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/3773/designstudiestypexxipla.jpg

Actual torpedo types carried is a bit more iffy, both due to the hypothetical nature of the matter and the info being harder to find.
T III fitted with LUT gear would seem to be the primary candidate. Does anybody knows the number to put in the cfg file for those?

[VONHARRIS]

Actual torpedo types carried is a bit more iffy, both due to the hypothetical nature of the matter and the info being harder to find.
T III fitted with LUT gear would seem to be the primary candidate. Does anybody knows the number to put in the cfg file for those?

This is easy to answer : 8
From the basic.cfg file
[TORPEDO_TYPE8];T III LuT II (G7e)
Idx=8
Year=1944
Month=9
PrototypeYear=1944
PrototypeMonth=9
Renown=450

A nice find , that torpedo tubes layout for the XXI.

[Sailor Steve]

On the other hand there's the solution for dummies that I use to get rid of the extra torpedo for the Type II in Aces Of The Deep: I just fire it at the beginning of the patrol, and then I only have five. :sunny:

[max-peck]

On the other hand there's the solution for dummies that I use to get rid of the extra torpedo for the Type II in Aces Of The Deep: I just fire it at the beginning of the patrol, and then I only have five. :sunny:

Ah - of course.
The most obvious solution is often overlooked :D

[Marcello]

Well, I suppose you could do that with the internally stowed torpedoes.
But with the external ones you would have to fire at least a couple of internal torpedoes and then be stuck on the surface to empty the containers. Not a healthy practice by 1944-1945, at least in a lot of places.

[Sailor Steve]

Of course. I wasn't really recommending it. If there's a way to do it realistically, then do it. I used to pretend I was in a Type VIIA by getting rid of external reloads and limiting myself to 17 knots, but Wreford-Brown made a mod that imitates the VIIA characteristics, and I use it regularly. It's always better to mod it if you can.

[Marcello]

In case this was of interest, from http://www.uboatarchive.net

Serial Order No. 40.
April 1944 issue.
Equipment with torpedoes.

1) Each type of boat is in future to be equipped with torpedoes as follows. All previous orders are cancelled:

a) Atlantic:

Type VIIC forward 3 TV, 2 FAT I, 3 T III FAT II (or 5 T IIIa FAT II) aft 2 TV
Type VIIC forward 3 TV, 5 T IIIa LUT (LUT boats) aft 2 TV
Type VIID forward 2 TV, 2 FAT I, 4 T III FAT II aft 2 TV

Type IX B and C forward 3 TV, 3 FAT I, 4 T IIIa FAT II (or 7 T IIIa FAT II) aft 2 TV, 2 T III FAT II
Type IXD forward 2 TV, 8 T III FAT II (or T IIIa FAT II) aft 2 TV, 2 T III FAT II upper deck 9 FAT I (or T I)
Type XB aft 2 TV, 5 T III (or FAT II)

b) Northern Waters:

Type VIIC forward 3 TV, 5 T III FAT II aft 2 TV


c) Mediterranean:

Type VIIC forward 3 TV, 5 T IIIa FAT II aft 2 TV


d) Black Sea:

Type II forward 1 TV, 4 T III

2) Boats are to be equipped in accordance with paragraph 1) as far as the torpedo stocks at the base permit. They are to be given T III in lieu of types of torpedo not available.
3) Exceptions: a) TV equipment for Northern Waters, Mediterranean and Black Sea is to be altered if necessary by the responsible Flag Officer U-boats according to the operational situation and torpedoes available. b) Northern Waters boats are to be equipped with 3 FAT I forward instead of T III as soon as G 7A can be used in this area. c) Upper deck equipment for Type XB will be decided separately in each case. d) The equipment of Atlantic boats with 5 TV will be the subject of a Special Order.
4) Old "Serial Order No. 40", (issue of September 1 1943) is to be removed and destroyed

[La vache]

Current Order No. 60 of November 1944

Torpedo Equipment

1. U-boats are to be equipped with torpedoes as follows:

a) Atlantic

Type VIIc ("Lut" boat) forward: 3 T V, 5 T IIIa Lut
aft: 2 T V
Type VIIc (without "Lut") forward: 3 T V 5 T IIIa Fat 2
aft: 2 T V

Type IXc ("Lut" boat) forward: 4 T V 6 T IIIa Lut
aft: 2 T V 2 T IIIa Lut (2 T IIIa Fat II)

Type IXc (without "Lut") forward: 4 T V 6 T IIIa Fat II
aft: 2 T V 2 T IIIa Fat II

Type IXd ("Lut" boat) forward: 2 T V 8 T IIIa Lut
aft: 2 T V 2 T IIIa Lut (2 T IIIa Fat II)
Upper deck: T I Fat I as far as possible.

Type IXd (without "Lut") forward: 2 T V 8 T IIIa Fat II
aft: 2 T V 2 T IIIa Fat II
Upper deck: T I Fat I as far as possible.

Type XXI ("Lut" boat)

Type XXIII ("Lut" boat) 2 T IIIa "Lut"
Type XXIII (without "Lut")2 T IIIa Fat II


b) Northern Waters

Type VIIc a (as Atlantic)
b in winter on special order of C.C. Northern Waters Type VIIc ("Lut" boat)
forward: 3 T V 3 T I Lut, 2 T IIIa Lut
aft: 2 TV

c) Baltic boats operating against the enemy.

As for atlantic boats.

2. Loading (according to Number 1) as far as the torpedo situation of the submarine base permits. In other cases, U-boats are to be equipped with other kinds of torpedoes for which is to be observed, Standing Order No. 313 of C.C. U-boats, concerning the assembly of torpedoes available for the individual types of U-boats.

3. Current Order No, 40 of April 1944 in use up to now to be extracted from the book and destroyed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Basic.cfg [Lut Boats]

[SUBMARINE_AMMO2]; VIIB
...

Year5=1944
ForeTube50=8
ForeTube51=9
ForeTube52=8
ForeTube53=8
ForeResIntern50=9
ForeResIntern51=9
ForeResIntern52=8
ForeResIntern53=8
ForeResExtern50=-1
ForeResExtra50=3
ForeResExtra51=3
AftTubes50=9
AftResIntern50=9
AftResExtern50=-1

[SUBMARINE_AMMO3]; VIIC
....

Year5=1944
ForeTube50=8
ForeTube51=9
ForeTube52=8
ForeTube53=8
ForeResIntern50=9
ForeResIntern51=9
ForeResIntern52=8
ForeResIntern53=8
ForeResExtern50=-1
ForeResExtra50=3
ForeResExtra51=3
AftTubes50=9
AftResIntern50=9
AftResExtern50=-1

[SUBMARINE_AMMO4];VIIC/41
...

Year2=1944
ForeTube20=8
ForeTube21=9
ForeTube22=8
ForeTube23=8
ForeResIntern20=9
ForeResIntern21=9
ForeResIntern22=8
ForeResIntern23=8
ForeResExtern20=-1
ForeResExtra20=3
ForeResExtra21=3
AftTubes20=9
AftResIntern20=9
AftResExtern20=-1

[SUBMARINE_AMMO5];VIIC/42
...

Year1=1944
ForeTube10=8
ForeTube11=9
ForeTube12=8
ForeTube13=8
ForeResIntern10=9
ForeResIntern11=9
ForeResIntern12=8
ForeResIntern13=8
ForeResExtern10=-1
ForeResExtern11=-1
ForeResExtern12=-1
ForeResExtra10=3
ForeResExtra11=3
AftTubes10=9
AftResIntern10=9
AftResExtern10=-1

[SUBMARINE_AMMO6];IXB
...

Year5=1944
ForeTube50=8
ForeTube51=9
ForeTube52=9
ForeTube53=8
ForeResIntern50=9
ForeResIntern51=9
ForeResIntern52=8
ForeResIntern53=8
ForeResExtern50=-1
ForeResExtern51=-1
ForeResExtern52=-1
ForeResExtern53=-1
ForeResExtern54=-1
ForeResExtra50=8
ForeResExtra51=8
AftTubes50=9
AftTubes51=8
AftResIntern50=9
AftResIntern51=8
AftResExtern50=-1
AftResExtern51=-1

[SUBMARINE_AMMO7];IXC
...

Year4=1944
ForeTube40=8
ForeTube41=9
ForeTube42=9
ForeTube43=8
ForeResIntern40=9
ForeResIntern41=9
ForeResIntern42=8
ForeResIntern43=8
ForeResExtern40=0
ForeResExtern41=0
ForeResExtern42=3
ForeResExtern43=3
ForeResExtern44=-1
ForeResExtern45=-1
ForeResExtra40=8
ForeResExtra41=8
AftTubes40=9
AftTubes41=4
AftResIntern40=9
AftResIntern41=4
AftResExtern40=3
AftResExtern41=3

[SUBMARINE_AMMO8];IXC/40
...

Year3=1944
ForeTube30=8
ForeTube31=9
ForeTube32=9
ForeTube33=8
ForeResIntern30=9
ForeResIntern31=9
ForeResIntern32=8
ForeResIntern33=8
ForeResExtern30=0
ForeResExtern31=0
ForeResExtern32=3
ForeResExtern33=3
ForeResExtern34=-1
ForeResExtern35=-1
ForeResExtra30=8
ForeResExtra31=8
AftTubes30=9
AftTubes31=8
AftResIntern30=9
AftResIntern31=8
AftResExtern30=3
AftResExtern31=3

[SUBMARINE_AMMO9];IXD2
...

Year2=1944
ForeTube20=8
ForeTube21=9
ForeTube22=8
ForeTube23=8
ForeResIntern20=9
ForeResIntern21=8
ForeResIntern22=8
ForeResIntern23=8
ForeResIntern24=8
ForeResIntern25=8
ForeResExtern20=1
ForeResExtern21=1
ForeResExtern22=1
ForeResExtern23=1
ForeResExtern24=1
ForeResExtern25=1
ForeResExtra20=3
ForeResExtra21=3
AftTubes20=9
AftTubes21=8
AftResIntern20=9
AftResIntern21=8
AftResExtern20=1
AftResExtern21=1

[Wreford-Brown]

I've created a little SH3 Commander mod (http://www.mediafire.com/?1zwbs09ns9s0efh) which applies the info Marcello and La vache have posted in the thread. On the relevant date it will update the default torpedo loadout to reflect the two orders that they found, plus it removes three torpedoes from the XXI in order to allow for servicing.

The file replaces your basic.cfg so I only recommend it for GWX users as that's the base file I used.

If anyone has any more info it'd be great to see it...

[rudewarrior]

Hi W-B,

Hmmm...

Looks like the info that Marcello put up didn't make it into my JFO! Mod. :oops:

I have added it in for v 2.1, which I will release after I've racked up a few corrections. I have already been correcting some small mistakes here and there. La vache helped with the German version, and the post he put up made it into the mod. Fortunately so far, it's only been small errors, and this one works out to be another small error. :shucks:

The only reason I am mentioning this is that you might want to take this mod just a step or two further.

Specifically, on 30 Apr 1943, u-boats stopped carrying torpedoes in the external slots. Then on 7 May 1943, they started allowing the IXD2 to carry a full complement of external torpedoes and IXC's that were "operating in the south" to carry six externals. All other boats (including all other IXC's) were no longer carrying any external torpedoes. This was because depth charge attacks were causing depth stability issues in the boats.

Just some more info to work in as well. :03:

[La vache]

Correctly, in my post the empty external Reseven included.

I have a Commander version for LSH. Marcello entry must still be added.

regards

[Marcello]

Hi W-B,

Hmmm...

Looks like the info that Marcello put up didn't make it into my JFO! Mod. :oops:

I have added it in for v 2.1, which I will release after I've racked up a few corrections. I have already been correcting some small mistakes here and there. La vache helped with the German version, and the post he put up made it into the mod. Fortunately so far, it's only been small errors, and this one works out to be another small error. :shucks:

The only reason I am mentioning this is that you might want to take this mod just a step or two further.

Specifically, on 30 Apr 1943, u-boats stopped carrying torpedoes in the external slots. Then on 7 May 1943, they started allowing the IXD2 to carry a full complement of external torpedoes and IXC's that were "operating in the south" to carry six externals. All other boats (including all other IXC's) were no longer carrying any external torpedoes. This was because depth charge attacks were causing depth stability issues in the boats.

Just some more info to work in as well. :03:

Also, I might add that the info I am getting suggests that there was an incompatibility between the setting mechanisms of LUT and FAT torpedoes. Therefore it might be advisable to replace the current loadout of the XXI with LUT torpedoes.
Personally I would go for something like this:
1) 2 TV
2) 4 TI LUT
3) 14 T III LUT
Somebody else mileage might vary though.