Your Ideal Doomsday Survival Situation/Prepper Thread

[Skybird]

"Rocket oven" not so much means a new gadget, but a principle of maintaining a cooking fire in the open, and efficiently. You find a comparable principle in socalled Dakota fire-holes. It means in general that fresh air gets to the fire from a separate second air intake, instead of just through the "chimney" opening where the cooking pot of meat or pan is placed. That way, more air gets delivered to the fire, you reach higher burning temperature, less smoke, less use of fuel. The thick isolaiton also focusses the heat on where it is wanted, instead of radiating at all directions.


I have build similiar constructions by use of brickstones and wild debris/stones.


"New", or modern, is that these specific types of ovens have been produced in huge quantities for delivery to households in the third world where they have no access to gas, coal and so forth.

For campers it is interesting that the fire is strictly controlled, the danger to set a forest ablaze by flying sparks is very small with these items.

Jim, always use these outdoors. If you fire these well and maybe use a ventilator, the flames can shoot like a rocket fire 30-50cm out of the chimney, I have seen that in real life. These ovens then even hiss (fauchen). Impressive. Usually not needed.

I will try some pulled pork in the Dutch oven sometime in the future. Good brickets on the rocket oven and on the pot's lid. I mean I cannot make an open camp fire on my balcony... :D

[Skybird]

BTW, I red on the website of the manufacturer of the Ecozoom why they raised their prices from 120 to 170 coins, and have problems to deliver. Its because of shipping containers. Usually, half a container, they write, costs 500 coins. Currently, at the time they posted it on their website, half a container costs 9500 coins... :o :doh:

[ET2SN]

To me Dutch ovens were designed to bury into live coals so that the heat surrounds it and bakes the beans evenly.

Corrected slightly. :yep:


There is nothing better than New England Baked Beans, especially when cooked outdoors in an authentic bean hole.

:Kaleun_Salivating:

[August]

Corrected slightly. :yep:


There is nothing better than New England Baked Beans, especially when cooked outdoors in an authentic bean hole.

:Kaleun_Salivating:


Oh yeah. Lotsa molasses and brown sugar. Served with home baked corn bread. :up:

[Aktungbby]

Corrected slightly. :yep:


There is nothing better than New England Baked Beans, especially when cooked outdoors in an authentic bean hole.

:Kaleun_Salivating:

Oh yeah. Lotsa molasses and brown sugar. Served with home baked corn bread. :up: My Massachusetts-born wife cans everything incl homemade baked beans, jams, tomato sauce et al to serve with chicken or turkey hotdogs since I avoid red meat these days:wah:...deeeelicious! :Kaleun_Salivating:

[em2nought]

Baked Beans require a pound of browned hamburger to be mixed if you want to create something truly yummy. :up:

[ET2SN]

Just a thought to ponder for you survival-minded folks:

There is absolutely NOTHING on this planet more useless than a vehicle with an automatic transmission and a dead starter. :wah:

Think it through for a few minutes and you'll understand why. :yep:

[Aktungbby]

.../\since I only drive 'stick' since even before my '70's trukkin' daze, U can always roll-start a manual transmission car, like my batterd but reliable '06 Toyota Corolla? Somewhat in the market for my new car, I can't find anything with a clutch and hand-crank up windows. I love my '86 CamryLE too, but all the window and sunroof motors needed replacment. So electric goodies are to be avoided under the KISS principle.:shucks:The new computer dashboards are a total pain to dinosaur-drivers like me too; partly aggravated by the current chip shortage worldwide.!:k_confused:

[Sean C]

I can't find anything with a clutch and hand-crank up windows.


I've got a 2004 Wrangler for you. Dark green. 5-Speed manual, roll up windows, AM and FM radio + CD player! Comes with hard top, soft top, bikini top. Black tubular bull bar w/ KC lights, matching rear bumper bar and side rails. Bunch of other stuff, too. You'd have to buy a new rear axle, though.




... And probably a new frame in a couple years. :o

[Jimbuna]

Of course they are, they burn wood and coal. You guys are acting like these are new inventions but these jet stoves have been around for decades.

I thought as much when I saw all the fumes and smoke being given off.



Jim, always use these outdoors. If you fire these well and maybe use a ventilator, the flames can shoot like a rocket fire 30-50cm out of the chimney, I have seen that in real life. These ovens then even hiss (fauchen). Impressive. Usually not needed.



I think I'll be sticking with my gas fired BBQ :)

[Skybird]

I think I'll be sticking with my gas fired BBQ :)
As long as you still can get gas cartridges or gas bottles.



For prepping, I recommend to have one burner for every kind of fuel possible. The rocket ovens burn biomass, and this model burns also charcoal and brickets. I have, for doomsday party, a stove for gas cartridges, gasoline, tupintine etc as well.


If it burns, I can safely use it without attracting unwanted attention.



Thats often overlooked - in such scenarios, you do not want to attract attention, but avoid attention getting. Thats why it even kight be better to leave the oven cold and not make any sorts of fire (smell).

[Catfish]

Regarding cars for 'preppers' i take it Diesel is the only way to go, along with no (and i mean no) electronics, maybe apart from the radio.

And use an old Diesel with precombustion chambers, and a fully mechanical injection pump only. No TDI, in fact no turbo at all, much too sensible and impossible to repair without spare parts. Get tools to adjusting the pump to plant seed oils, use different glow plugs, and inituial electrical/later heat-exchange heater for making other-than-Diesel fatty fuels more liquid. An old Diesel engine will run on any fatty fuel.

Store away some spare parts you know will break down sooner or later. This way the car will run with almost every fatty stuff you come across.

Use a car that does not consume much fuel. A halfways bad-terrain-suited car should not weigh more than a ton, skip a four wheel drive that ony puts weight on the car, and which you will not be able to repair.

This way you will only need mineral oils for engine and gearbox lubrication, and bearings, and the quantity is minuscule compared to using gasoline which will not be available, and which you cannot refine.

[Skybird]

You want a Russian Scherp, maybe?:03:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Sherp.jpg

As far as I know even new Lada Nivas are, for Lada standards, electrohorrificized these days.

Legal demands make it impossible for manufacturers nowadays to avoid each and every electric system.

Basic models of Dacias are mentioned to be low on electronics, but not completely free of them.


A used oldtimer probably is the best way. With all the financial risks involved.

[Skybird]

First thigns first, the son of friends of my parents is an electrics engineer with RWE, a European energy corporation, biog player. My parents said their friends told them he has gotten fired some weeks ago after having corroded patience of his superiors over "impertinent" internal warnings - not whistleblowing in public! - for dangerous instabilities and risks of supply interruptions in the continetal power grid. I cannot judge this narration and know only what they have been told, but if it is true as they were told, I would not be surprised. And I would take it as another warning, another weriting on the wall. The man, my age apparently, is specialising in powergrid egineering as a professional with decades of experiences under his belt. He seems to expect the big one before end of this decade.



Now, my latest project, and I like it:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdoB3nW9VVI


Facts by one day experience: The tank holds short of 4 l, I filled it to the half, and that halved load lastet close 4.5 - 5 hours. A standard big cannister of petroleum weighs 9-10 kg and holds 20l, that thing would give you around two full days of constant heating, I restimate, 48+ hours. Its just that you do not run this constantly, you dont need to. I give 20l a standing time of short of one week, therefore.



You need only four batteries, size D.


The thing stinks heavily in the first 2-3 minutes when igniting it. It stinks again heavily when shutting it down, but after ignition, when the temperature of the flame got right and is perfect, the smeel levbel goes down tremendously, ypoiu then can rtun it inside your home. I did not bepeive it until I red it, I so far believed that petroleum lamps never are to be burned inside living rooms and houses if you have no good air circulation. I would nevertehless recomemnd to run these things never without a CO2-CO-warner.


This thing is ideal for glasshouses with plants, cellars, garages, outdoor huts etc, and in case of emergency you will tolerate the smell in your home if the alternative is ice covering your wallpapers.:D As I saiudm, the smell if bad durign igntiuion phase. I thus placed the thing near my door to the loggia, and would open the door during ignition in the future.



I woudl recommend to establish a time pattern for frequent air exchnage envertheless.


The charm of this is - it is a.) surprisingly effective (it heats, not warms but heats, my main room which is more than 25 sqm), and b.) you do not need stilk wokring powergrid and electricity to start it, you are fully independent. The consummation rate for petroleum also surprised me, I expected it to be worse.



I will store 4 cans of 20l in my garage. That would possibly bring me over one month of siberian winter. :yeah:

[mapuc]

What about the moisture ? It looks like one of these heat oven and the moisture increase when in use.

Markus

[Skybird]

When you cant move your fingers anymore because you are so cold, and your kids peel off the skin on their faces because they are bored, and frozen as they are they do not feel it anyway, I think you would not care about profanities like that. :D

I alos red some more comments. In practical use and with real-life consummation, it seems many people say they get over "one full season" with just 20l petroleum. Talking of campers in the main.

Note that you need special heater petroleuum for these ovens, lamp petroleum will ruin them. I dont know why, I just red it. Quality differences between different brands seem to be about how smelly the petroleums are.

[Skybird]

Some more on the petroleum oven.

I have googled it more, and found many test sites and reviews for ovens like this, all more or less similiar in construction, to give a consummation rate of 1/4 l per hour. The inbuild tank is close to 4 liters, that means you can expect a standing time of 15-16 hours. I would not run this at night when I sleep, so that 16 hours are one full working day. That means with a 20 l cannister of petroleum you get at least 5 days, probably more, since you may not burn it all day long.

I ran it the third evening in a row now, for the dakr hours before I go to bed. Because I simpy like it. I like the glow of it, the quality of the warmth it radiates, even the very mild smell in the air. I have the door to the loggia/balcony and on the other side of the huge room a window opened a bit, not much, just so that their is an air exchange. A CO2 and CO sensor of course is mandatory as a precautionary measure. The oven stands close to the loggia door, and I fire it up outside and let it burn there for the first 5 minutes or so, then carry it in carefully (it has a shut off-function if it does not stand elevated any more). The same I do when shutting it down, I place it outside, and leave it there for 15 minutes.

Very good buy. It works well. If you buy one, make sure it does not depend on electricity supply other than batteries, or even piezo ignitor. Always have good air exchange, always use a CO2 CO sensor.

Its gemütlich! :cool:

[Armistead]

When you cant move your fingers anymore because you are so cold, and your kids peel off the skin on their faces because they are bored, and frozen as they are they do not feel it anyway, I think you would not care about profanities like that. :D

I alos red some more comments. In practical use and with real-life consummation, it seems many people say they get over "one full season" with just 20l petroleum. Talking of campers in the main.

Note that you need special heater petroleuum for these ovens, lamp petroleum will ruin them. I dont know why, I just red it. Quality differences between different brands seem to be about how smelly the petroleums are.

I like my old fashion wood stove, I can cook on it and even in the basement I can get the entire house cooking over 90 degrees. Course, I have an unlimited supply of wood right behind my house. I'd hate to live in the city during a major end times crisis.

[Skybird]

Since maybe somebody considers this item, I give these numbers from the manual for the two models R4224STC and R7227STC. I have ther smaller one for my main room with around 32sqm and a ceiling height of 2.40m, giving it 77 cubic meters for an oven with a recommended using range of minimum 40 m3 and maximum 85 m3. I am in the upper range fo that, which mans the ventilation should not become any problem at all, ever. In smaller rooms, it might beocme an issue, and miore window-opening is necessary, also, while you may think smalle rrooms heat up better: the ovens have unbuild temperature locks,. at around 19-20°C they shut off. If the surrounding temperature is lower than inside homes, say in the open, or a glass house, it can have raised limits before the automatism snaps again.

The brand is Japanese. 4 years warranty.

I will try the oven again in January or February (if no blackout occurs earlier :D ) and then see how itbehaves with those much ower temps I woudl expect then. Right now I am veryhappy. If fuel consummation stays like it is, this might be even cheaper to heat than the normal and installed heating we have in the building...?!

Petroleum prices for these ovens in the past 5 years have varied by around 400%. :o They were as low as 40 coins per 20l, and as high as 150 coins per 20l. Right now, high quality low smell petroleum comes at prices of 60-80 coins per 20 l (at least over here).


SPECIFICATIONS R4224STC / R7227STC


Ignition electrical
Fuel paraffin
Capacity (kW)* 2.4 / 2.7
Suitable space (m3)** 40-85 / 45-95
Fuel consumption (l/hr)* 0.250 / 0.281
Fuel consumption (g/hr)* 200 / 225
Burning time per tank (hr)* 16.8 / 15.0
Capacity removable tank (litres) 4.2 / 4.2
Weight (kg) 8.6 / 8.7
Dimensions (mm) (including base plate)
width 455
depth 295
height 495
Required batteries 3V D.C. (R20 x 2)
Wick type O (Qlima specification)

* At maximum setting
** Specified values are indicative


If you burn this oven (smaller model) 8 hours a day, a 20l cannister petroleum will warm you up for 10 days.

I love these things! :Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

[ET2SN]

Steve1989 is back on YouTube, and he still hasn't gotten food poisoning. :yeah:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtgdbucX3nc



:rock:

[Skybird]

Eating food rations form WWII maybe is an extreme, but in generla, if hygienically correcly filled and the can is good quality material, food in cans will remain perfectly consummable for much much longer than the printed date. In Asia coutnries cnaned food doe snto even have date stamps on it.



20 years? No problem. If the can and filling process was good quality at the tiem of making.



I still have some cans of pea-potatoe soup, which formed my ground stock of reserve building back in days when i was a bit short on money. They are 15 years old now. And they still are fine. 3 or 4 still are left. Think its time to buy another dozen of them now. It tastes good.

[ET2SN]

Check out his page on YouTube. Steve has eaten rations that date back to the Civil War and WWI. :doh:

One thing to keep in mind, military field rations were not designed to keep you healthy or well-fed. They were designed to keep you alive when there was nothing else available. They were also loaded to the gills with calories, stimulants, and preservatives. The idea being to keep you alive and moving. :03:

[Skybird]

They were also loaded to the gills with calories, stimulants, and preservatives.
:) A kind of oldfashioned German word for "condom" is "Präservativ" :D

[ET2SN]

I'll make a note of that. :yeah:

AKA- "Huh??" :haha:

[Skybird]

I still owe a pic of the petroleum oven. This is the second one that I got for my parents. Hehehe: they are rated for energy efficiency "A" grade. :D


https://i.postimg.cc/4dmtCxq2/20211105-154945.jpg (https://postimg.cc/phMyzR2K)

I braced myself. Winter is coming? Let it come. :Kaleun_Salute:

[Sean C]

When I was a kid we used to use those kerosene heaters all the time when the baseboard heating wasn't enough or if the power went out.


A few years back, I got into making "penny stoves". You cut the bottoms off of two aluminum cans and very carefully slide one into the other. It is vital that you don't tear the thin aluminum and that they seal fairly well. One side gets a few small holes drilled around the perimeter and one in the center. (Through trial and error I have found that it's easiest to drill the holes first, then cut the cans and assemble.)

And that's it! Now you have a functioning alcohol stove that weighs almost nothing, has no moving parts and is [relatively] safe to use indoors with the correct fuel (very pure methyl or ethyl alcohol).

Here is one I made from two soda cans:

https://i.imgur.com/iIirn0Xh.jpg

To light it, you pour some alcohol into the center hole and then cover it with a penny (hence the name). Then you pour a little more alcohol into the depression over the penny and light it. This initial flame warms the stove up until the alcohol begins to vaporize rapidly and exit the holes in the perimeter where it is ignited.

The alcohol in the top burns away rather quickly, but the burning vapor from inside the stove will last for much longer. Maybe 10-15 minutes or more. I don't know for sure because I've never had to leave it burning for very long - it's very efficient. It will boil a cup of water in just a couple of minutes. To extinguish it, you simply cover it to smother the flames.

There are only two real downsides: 1) Pure alcohol burns with an almost invisible flame, unless you're in the dark. Sometimes it's difficult to tell if the stove is lit or not. It is a good idea to make absolutely sure it is extinguished before adding more fuel or moving it. Ask me how I know this. And 2) Relatively pure alcohol isn't always readily available - although I suppose you could make some, if you're good at distilling.

Speaking of fuel, I usually use a product called "HEET". It's available in most auto parts stores and is sold as a gas line anti-freeze. It's basically pure methyl alcohol. NB: Only use the stuff that comes in the yellow bottle, not the red one!

https://i.imgur.com/crLJBJ8h.jpg

I have also used Everclear - a commercially available alcohol for mixing into drinks. It is nearly pure ethyl alcohol. Although, in Virginia, you can only get real Everclear on a military base for some reason. The advantage of using Everclear is that you can also drink it. (DO NOT DRINK THE GAS LINE ANTI-FREEZE!)

I also made a little stand for mine out of the top of one of the soda cans:

https://i.imgur.com/KDmOuJXh.jpg

And I made a wind screen out of an old soup can (not pictured, but I can post a pic if you like). The top of the soup can also makes a great place to set a small pot or pan like the ones that come with a camping mess kit.

[Skybird]

I burned in the oven for my parents. I am stunned what power it has. I broke off a test after 9 hours - and the tank with 3.8l still was half full. I had to stop, because despite having all doors in my flat open and two windows opened by a few centimeters, this thing brought room temperature to 25 Celsius, mounting more, at an outside temp of 6-10 celsius over the day. The height of the flames is difficult to spot and the wick adjustment should be done well. Then the petroleum i used, a low odor brand of higher price, burns without causing any smell. The oven smells however during ignition and the following minutes, and during shuttdown. Use a balcony.



Everybody should have such a unit, for winter emergencies.


I am enthusiastic. Its a wolf in sheeps fur. But do not save in oven petrol quality. I use Qlima Kristall No Odor. With a correctly managed flame you really will smell almost nothing. Petroleum lamps like Feuerhand Baby Special give way more reason to be concerned. But I Love them. No LED garden light could ever rival its charms.

[Skybird]

I mentioned the partial shading problem, the dramatic effect I saw when taking out that one panel that was shaded by maybe 30% of its surface. On a Germna site, I found this explanation. The water hose comparison explains it understandably.


Even partial shading of a photovoltaic module can cause noticeable yield losses. This is explained by the electrical interconnection of the solar cells of a module. Several solar cells are connected in series in so-called strings. That is, they are connected in a row by cables. If a solar cell of a string is shaded, the current flow behaves similarly to water that is dammed by a kink in the garden hose. The entire flow of electricity is hindered in its path and is only as high as at its weakest point, the point of shadowing. This “current congestion” can lead to overheating in the module if the accumulated energy is discharged into heat at the bottleneck. For this reason, so-called bypass diodes are integrated into the photovoltaic modules as standard. These can bridge parts of the module affected by shading and thus limit the reduction in performance.

Nevertheless, the loss of yield is much greater than the actual loss of the area exposed to light. Because even entire modules are connected in a row to form strings. If a module has a partially reduced output due to the use of a bypass diode, this leads to a reduction in the output of the entire string, just as if individual solar cells are shaded. A bypass diode for entire system parts would, however, switch off parts of the system over a large area.

[Skybird]

Friendly weather and day today. The setup works fantastic even with just two panels, possible are 400 Watts in total. From the moment on the sun crawled over the roof, the show was on, and got hot soon. I set up some wire magic and so at the same time charged a bicycle battery with a capacity of 500Wh, ran a wire with seven lamps 2W per on it plus one 6W lamp (which was de facto my complete living room lights), cooked 4.5 liters of water, all that on AC, and the DC with the many USBs I used to charge a smartphone, a tablet, a pocket torch, a bicycle front light. For fun, I had the vacuum cleaner on for a few minutes, too. All at the same time. I then ran out of possible consumers. The fridge, maybe, I forgot. :D
Simultaneously the panels charged the battery. I could, if I only had a car, charge simultaneosuly with the panels via car, or wallmount: you can run two charging ways at the same time. But two of three panels already did the job, and while I stressed the battery and emptied it to 50% or so, most of it already is rechgarged again and I am absolutely certain before the sun gets too low again the battery will be filled up again.

Works much better, way much better than I expected. There will be greater losses on more grey days, but in serious situations I would then ration the battery power anyway, and find a way to set up the third panel as well without it being shaded.

Very happy customer. Expensive, but no hassle with single electric items, and no handcrafting and manual wiring. Here you get it all in one box, without any further work and need to think things out. Can only recommend. Took me five minutes to set up the panels this morning, and as long it will take to store them away and roll the powerbank behind a curtain. Super!

Food for thought, they offer also cheaper 120W panels, but these also have lower Volts. With only two panels I woul not get the needed Volts to get charging started. I would always depend on having all three panels out and all of them unshaded, and then have 360W at max and best conditions. With the more expensive 200W panels, I can vary between 2 panels (400W), and 3 panels (600W). Worth it, absolutely, in my living situation and limited place!

(One panel alone also does not charge.)

I think the model of this powerbank they sell in the US has not 2 but 6 AC mounts. Dont know any further possible differences, by looks the rest seems to be the same.

[snak3gam3r!]

I've always kind of wanted the zombie thing although a good ol EMP attack plunging us all back to the dark ages again seems rather nice. I always feel like with an EMP attack we would recover pretty quickly though, even if it was a massive global type thing, but what do I know lol.

[em2nought]

I've always kind of wanted the zombie thing
zombie is just a euphemism for democrat. :D

[Onkel Neal]

zombie is just a euphemism for democrat. :D

Please don't politicize this thread.

[ET2SN]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kxYBlOERCs


Good viewing for you Briggs and Stratton junkies. :yeah:

Power equipment isn't worth squat if it don't make power or start when you need it. :yep:

Long term storage can and will cause problems with any engine. :yep:

[em2nought]

Some interesting books being advertised discounted on facebook this time of year. There's this https://thelostsuperfoods.com/

and a few others.

[Rockstar]

Another way to stay warm and survive those times when the home loses power and temperatures drop below freezing. Set up a small freestanding 2 or 4 person tent in a room and load it up with blankets and pillows for insulation and coziness, crawl right in and zip it up. Thanks to the smaller area your own body heat will cause interior tent temperatures to be substantially warmer than the outside and you will sleep quite comfortably.


For light, find a quart size mason jar and load it up to the bottom of the threads with CRISCO. Cut a candle to length and drive it to the bottom of the jar so the wick just clears the top of the CRISCO and can be lit. That thing will burn for weeks. For heat you can also place a suitably sized terracotta flower pot upside down over the mason jar and it will radiant heat. Keep in mind it’s a fire hazard so take precautions.

[Skybird]

It certainly is better to burn Crisco then to eat it. :03:

[ET2SN]

SPOILER ALERT!!
Shaved Steve1989 at 7:08.
:o:doh::O:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3GGSfaKMJ8

[JNicholas90]

You would also need a crew that can actually maintain a nuclear submarine as well and even if you did these complex vessels receive months of maintenance between patrols something that would not be possible in a total collapse.Sure in a time of duress a sub can stay out for longer but the ship itself and crew would wear out in a year or so.

Hiding seems like a good idea but it is no guarantee of safety things can go wrong that force you to move like a hostile group finding your hiding spot people are going to be really looking because their survival depends on finding what is hidden.Long term survival a person or group of people would have to be nomadic.

I get a kick out of the people on these dooms day shows who have all these plans about having their little fort that they plan to defend well guess what they will get to do that only thing is sooner of later they are going to get over run and die.Better to be mobile because as I said people will be looking for permanent locations because they know that what they need is in them.

Of course not matter what you do it is going to very hard it is going to be very harsh and possibly only a very small number would survive and it might be close like that for generations.Think of your worst experience and multiply it about 1 billion then you have an inkling of how hard making it in a total collapse post apocalyptic world will be.


we have all learned so much from the walking dead!

[ET2SN]

The one thing the "bunker" shows always gloss over is something really important. :up:

Poop.

More specifically, what are you going to do with it? Its the one thing you will be making as long as you aren't starving.


Just food for thought. :O:

[August]

The one thing the "bunker" shows always gloss over is something really important. :up:

Poop.

More specifically, what are you going to do with it? Its the one thing you will be making as long as you aren't starving.


Just food for thought. :O:


Whatever you do just don't toss it out. Bags of fertilizer are going to be difficult to get.

[ET2SN]

Fertilizer= Poop + the right microbes + time.

Storing human waste in mason jars is probably not a good idea. :Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

The sad truth to that equation is that time is something you don't have.

If you're in the same survival situation after three months, you'll want to be thinking of the least painful ways to check out.

This is reality. Not a movie, TV show, or paperback novel. :yep:

[August]

I guess it depends on the survival situation you're talking about. Prepping for natural disasters is not the same thing as trying to prepare for the fall of civilization. With natural disasters you are just trying to outlast the rescue/recovery clock. 30 days food and water would cover you in almost any natural disaster.

Surviving the fall of civilization is another thing altogether and even that covers a wide range of scenarios from a gradual societal collapse all the way to a nuclear war nightmare with every possible situation in between so learning how to turn ones poop into fertilizer might be a useful thing to know.

[Skybird]

If you're in the same survival situation after three months, you'll want to be thinking of the least painful ways to check out.

This is reality. Not a movie, TV show, or paperback novel. :yep:
Prepping by a strategy of stockpiling consummable reserves obviously has timely limits for thr duration of how long you can live by this. From some point on you need to have learned and be capable to live off the land instead.

However, lets be realistic and not assuming the zombie apocalypse. I described it before: my worst concern is a power blackout of continental proportions and several days duration, maybe 7-10 days power put. A huge multiple-days blackout imo is a very realistic possibility in Europe now. It then would take several days to switch all those many individual "power islands" back to "on" one by one, the regions each of them being supplied by one powerplant. And after that several weeks to desinfect the water pipes and taps, and months to empty and clean and refill the water processing plants and sewage processing bassins. And then the time it woud need to restablish logistics and supply chains, Corona and shipping taught us some lessons there, didn't it.

In the end, the duration you can surivive by reserves-prepping is limited, it gets you so and so far and not further, it depends on your monetarian and space options.

Everybody should think of realistic desaster scenarios, but skipping the absurd scifi stuff. And then he should do in preparation what he can do in this place and space he lives in, with this money he has, and at this time of his life. More he cannot do. Skipping just one long summer holiday travel, and use that money for prepping up instead. That is a very good way to get started and already accomplish a lot.



BTW, insurrances will be of no use to yiou if dedsaster like thsi strike. An insurrance does not help you to survive. And maybe even does not help you after you have successfully survived by your own means and doing. And if no desaster strikes you - the money that the insurrance costs you still is gone then. Just saying, some food for thought there.


Just doing nothing to get prepared within the range of one's own individual possibilities, and taking it for granted that others or the state will take it upon them to come to one's rescue - that phlegmatism is unforgivable, and selfish, and dumb. The state will be limited to set priorities for allocating its limited - and waning - ressources. Individual fates and rescue operations for each and every "citizen" will not be put high on the list. It cannot be afforded.

[Onkel Neal]

So, time to dust off the Nuclear Armageddon plans, no? :wah:

So much depends on the scale of a nuke exchange. A limited strike is very survivable. The key is to be ready for the logistical and banking breakdown that would follow. If you are in an area that is largely unaffected by blast and radiation, you want to be sure you have food and water on hand and weapons and allies ready.

If it's a wide-spread exchange, loss of information and news blackout would mean any plan depends more on luck that any strategic planning. Discounting an effective EMP, we can assume there would be some radio broadcasts and the info would be something to go by, but it would be hard to gauge its accuracy.

If survive the initial strikes, I'm going to hunker down in my rural home, it's 70 miles away from Houston. Stay inside for at least 3 months to avoid radiation. Water comes from a well, I could make it 4-6 months on food if I'm careful. Power would probably be out permanently and fuel supplies as well, so there would be no place to go. Have to keep some cash onhand. Weapons and ammo are easy, got that covered. There are enough neighbors to band together for security.

It sounds crazy but hey, we are living in crazy times.

https://youtu.be/al0CVsiffu8

[mapuc]

If it stay local this nuclear exchange then I have hope to survive. If it goes world wide-Then I'm doomed. Even though I live on an island, far from any big cities.

Markus

[Skybird]

Even just wanting to survive a nuclear exchange is for the younger ones. For the older ones - would I really want to survive in a world where the dominat species does stupid things like that...?

Other humans probably would become the worst of dangers there then are.

I do not plan for such scenarios, and I do not prepare for them. My scenarios for whcih I prepped mainly are cyber attacks, and the breakdown these can cause, and a huge nationwide or continental power blackout for more than 48-72 hours. That would cause a rat tail of problems lasting for months.

I could not expect help near me, or far away. They have their own families, or are as old and isolated as I am. Evasion or fleeing is no realistic option while I get older and older, my strategy is dictated by the cicumstances my life happens to take part in. I would hunker down, try to become invisble, do a good bunker job so to speak, defend my place as best as I could if need be and hold out as long as my reserves last - and by the end of that episode I either made it or I made it not, end of story. Simple, isn'T it. Life is what it is. Could hold out with no forewarning for a minimum of 6 weeks or even longer, and 4 months and longer if I have early warning time to fill up additional water reserves that currently are empty and folded and stored away due to lacking storage space. If I have time to fill them, it would more than triple my sweet water reserves.

Regarding the issue of "what goes in must come out" that ETS2SN mentioned, the best solution might be the principle of so-called dry separation toilets, which can be improvised but can also be bought in fixed installaitons for camping mobiles etc but then become very expensive. The principle is simple, you keep the liquid strictly separated from the solid wen using the relaxation throne, and mix the organic dry material like dry leafes, sawdust or coconut fibres. Poo does not smell long if it dries, and pee does not start to really smell ugly as long as it does not get mixed with water or other baddy-baddy stuff. The whole idea is to collect and every couple of days "throw" away the pee, and see the solid parts of your legacies composting, emtoying that box just once a week or evben month. Good designs of this that are build into camping trailers are as good as free of smell - if done right. In emergency, when you have no bowel where liquid and solid gets separated, you can improvise by using a bottle and a bin, the important thing is to keep the two things separate and allow the solid shares to dry and have the moisture escape. There are ready designs with stirrers and a handcrank.

If done right: almost no smell, no poo, just composted earth, and easy to get rid off pee in bottles. Do not mistake it with a simple outhouse and just a board over a hole in the ground.

Very expensive but very good:
https://www.biotoi.de/
Probably the best of its kind (say many camping-trailer owners using it).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LfclIFgUpI&t=21s
Expensive. But good. Solid quality.

[Catfish]

Duck and cover, or use a briefcase. If there's a table, get under it.

[Skybird]

Nukes made in Russia cannot be good quality. Just blow it out if you see one going off. Or have an Ukrainian using it for BBQ. Roasted Bear a la Kyiv.

[ET2SN]

A well is a good thing to have, in a nuclear scenario a DEEP well is even better. :up:

Just some quick review for an end-of-the-world nuclear situation:

-There are a bunch of old or current missile silos located between Montana and both Dakotas. Expect heavy ground bursts in this line which will produce the worst fallout. Sometimes that cabin in the woods isn't the best idea, depending on where its located. Expect the heavy bomber bases (Minot, Whiteman, Ellsworth, Dyess, Barksdale) to get their fair share of the mayhem, although we're talking more about air bursts. If you can recognize any of those names above, you're probably in a bad spot. :yep:
Likewise, it will be a good idea to steer clear of Seattle and the Georgia/Florida state line- the rough locations of the SSBN bases.

-Fallout. Learn about it BEFORE you have to deal with it. I'm not being obtuse about what I'm NOT including in this post. Its up to YOU to get educated and save your ### if its possible. :yeah:
Fallout from the missile fields will be bad. Fallout from the cities will be almost as bad. The really bad news is that fallout is very random, it depends on what type of explosion produced it along with wind and weather patterns.
For the most part, if you were born during or after the 1990's, take everything you KNOW about nuclear warfare and throw it in a trash can. This won't be a game or a movie.

-Learn how to do for yourself. Assuming that you survived, there will be 10 million other more important things to get worked on before anyone will be able to help you with your problems. :yep: If you are weak with the basics of first aid, NOW is the time to learn. Having a Geiger counter and iodine pills is worthless if you don't know how or when to use them. Having a first aid kit is worthless if you don't know what you're doing.

-Learn how to do with others. Seriously, your odds of survival are really slim if you can't or won't work with others. There's NOTHING to win in this situation, you just want to make it to the next sunrise. Doing that on your own is virtually impossible. :yep:

[Skybird]

Trust is an empirically proven confidence. It denotes a sum of experiences made in the past, which have gone to the satisfaction of the person trusting.

You do not trust any foreigner strolling your way. Where you think and say you do, in fact in reality you take a risk and hope you get away with it. You take a gamble. In other words: you flip a coin. You just hope for something.

Civilization is a thin layer of paint that all too easily can be scratched off. Underneath lies the drive to survive, and animalic instincts.

One of my favourite quotes is by General Sharon: "Hope is no strategy." Amen to that.

[Kapitan]

Done in the 1970s on behalf of the UK government

https://youtu.be/7yrv505R-0U

[Sean C]

We live between the heart of the U.S. Navy (Norfolk/Newport News shipyards), Langley AFB (home of several F-22 squadrons and the base from which fighters were scrambled on 9/11), several other military bases (such as Ft. Eustis and the Naval Weapons Station Yorktown) and we're not too far from the nation's capitol (about 130 miles or 210 km), including the headquarters of the CIA, NSA, etc. There are actually 51 military bases in Virginia ... we're fourth on the list following California (123), Texas (59) and Florida (56).

If a nuclear war were to break out, I don't think there would be any planning for me and my wife. We will most likely be vaporized before we know what hit us. Lucky us, I guess.

See y'all on the other side! :yeah:

[em2nought]

I found an old storm shelter on my friend's property, I'd better hurry up and figure out a way to get into it. :hmmm:

[Onkel Neal]

A storm cellar would be ideal. Man, I wish I had one :wah:

[Platapus]

If a nuclear war were to break out, I don't think there would be any planning for me and my wife. We will most likely be vaporized before we know what hit us. Lucky us, I guess.

See y'all on the other side! :yeah:


I am with you.


When I was at Offutt, we figured we had at least three SS-18's targeted on us. Now that I work in DC, my chances of survival are not much better.


Actually, that's the way I want it. If we go nuke, I will be one of the many fortunate ones who won't know what happened.

[Jimbuna]

Duck and cover, or use a briefcase. If there's a table, get under it.

I should be fine then, sitting here in front of my computer desk :)

[mapuc]

I used a map to see how far I live from the biggest cities Copenhagen, Odense and Hamburg(Germany)

In strait line I live
Around 170 Km from Copenhagen
Around 60 Km from Odense
Around 150 Km from Hamburg.
Did not measure distance from Flensburg.

These cities is what I call hot target in a world wide nuclear war

So I would survive the blast-But I wouldn't survive the aftermath radioactive dust and so on.

Markus

[Jeff-Groves]

If the Crazy Bastards fly the Nukes?
I'll just stand outside and give them this!
:yeah:
And those won't be thumbs!

[Aktungbby]

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0069/8236/9353/products/DSC_5496_1024x1024.jpg?v=1640678657 I'm already in my shelter with (required) tinfoil hat looking up! Wouldn't wanna miss my own fire-in-the-sky moment!:shucks: https://c.tenor.com/IexT1-_aEjgAAAAd/boooooooooooooooom-wow.gif https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/crazy-guy-wearing-a-colander-with-antenni-as-a-hat-picture-id535070663?k=20&m=535070663&s=612x612&w=0&h=w_qAEgsZhPIES_cSEgCHhSN5H7CncgqzrxlrZw52Osc= A storm cellar would be ideal. Man, I wish I had one Not in flood-prone Houston U don't! :doh:

[mapuc]

They(The grey) have found a way to scan your brain even when you wear a tinfoil hat. They send a NANO-robot in where the sun doesn't shine and it transmit itself up to the brain where it scan your brain.

Markus

[Jeff-Groves]

Got that covered!
:yeah:
http://volvospeed.com/Pics/Review/foil_thong.jpg

[Aktungbby]

Got that covered!
:yeah:
Don't fergit the other (lower)brain! http://i.imgur.com/1WIQ9fW.jpg:O:

[ET2SN]

They send a NANO-robot in where the sun doesn't shine and it transmit itself up to the brain where it scan your brain.

Markus

For most people, it isn't that long of a journey. :yeah::haha:

[Onkel Neal]

So I would survive the blast-But I wouldn't survive the aftermath radioactive dust and so on.

Markus

Sure you would, if you stay sheltered for the first 4~6 months. Didn't you view the video I posted? I'm not claiming it's definitive but it does lend to possibilities.

[Onkel Neal]

So I would survive the blast-But I wouldn't survive the aftermath radioactive dust and so on.

Markus

Sure you would, if you stay sheltered for the first 4~6 months. Didn't you view the video I posted? I'm not claiming it's definitive but it does lend to possibilities.


Not in flood-prone Houston U don't! :doh:

No, not here I don't. I was thinking about somewhere around here.

https://goo.gl/maps/r26Tk7qGU3RaVuMQ7


I just need an 8x20 shipping container 4 feet underground with a decent air filtration system, I'm good.

[mapuc]

Sure you would, if you stay sheltered for the first 4~6 months. Didn't you view the video I posted? I'm not claiming it's definitive but it does lend to possibilities.

Saw a part of it-I have a basement I can use but it ain't nuclear prof shelter.

Markus

[Onkel Neal]

Watch this part then lets talk :ping:

https://youtu.be/al0CVsiffu8?t=895

[Onkel Neal]

So perfect
https://www.landwatch.com/brewster-county-texas-farms-and-ranches-for-sale/pid/412779966

[Jeff-Groves]

I just need an 8x20 shipping container 4 feet underground with a decent air filtration system, I'm good.
Thought you had a container at one time?
:hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

So perfect
https://www.landwatch.com/brewster-county-texas-farms-and-ranches-for-sale/pid/412779966

Will there be any extra charge for all the poisonous critters already domiciled there? :)

[Jeff-Groves]

Will there be any extra charge for all the poisonous critters already domiciled there? :)

One walk through with his Light House shirt on?
They would be running or slithering for safer ground!

[mapuc]

Watch this part then lets talk :ping:

Seen the entire video clip.

I have a very high chance of surviving a nuclear holocaust.

Only thing I need is canned food and lots of bottle with waters.

As I wrote before my basement isn't build as a nuclear shelter-It's an ordinary basement where I have my washing machine, dryer and my tools.

Markus

[Catfish]

Watch this part then lets talk :ping:
https://youtu.be/al0CVsiffu8?t=895
No problem, Hawaii is far away :har:

[mapuc]

Came up with an imaginary story where I use my own life as a reference.

You wake up by yourself, which is not the first time it happens. Suddenly you notice behind the curtain that it's almost daylight outside-Usually it use to be dark this time of year when your smartphone wakes you.

You reach out for the phone and then you press the ON-button nothing happens the screen is black. You press again this time harder and longer....nothing.

You open the drawer in your bedside table to take out the charger to your phone. You insert the thing into the smartphone and the electricity..again you press the ON-button...nothing..WHAT my phone is not even 6 month old...well they have to give me a new one-that's for sure.

You get up go out into the bathroom where you water the toilet and flush...not noticing that the cistern is not being flooded again.

You open the water...nothing comes out...only a very small beam of water is coming.

Oh man you say to yourself loudly..first my cellphone and then no water...going to be perfect day.

Going back to the bedroom to take on clothes..then into the kitchen..open the water to making coffee..no water...of course..well I still have some coffee left in my thermos you say to yourself silently.

You pour the coffee into a mug and place it in the microwave...nothing..!!?? What is this...you check the electricity to see if the microwave has electricity and you discover there's no electricity.

I go back to bed and when I wake up this nightmare will be gone. But you don't you wanna check what's new on your laptop.

The laptop is dead...

Now you start to become nervous and uncertain not knowing what to do.

Then you remember the massive thunder during the night which woke you, but you manage going to sleep again.

End of imaginary story.

Markus

[ET2SN]

I grew up in the footprint of Loring AFB in northern Maine.

One fine day I had the house to myself when everything started shaking. :o

The one thing I could think of was to open the windows that faced north and west, I had a feeling it was the precursor (ground) wave of Loring getting plastered and I didn't want the windows to explode when the shock wave hit.

As it turned out, we had an incredibly rare earthquake. :Kaleun_Cheers:

[em2nought]

I just need an 8x20 shipping container 4 feet underground with a decent air filtration system, I'm good.


Make sure you shore it up well or the walls or roof could collapse. The corners are designed to carry all the weight, the rest not so much.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiP7LUYouho

[Skybird]

Münster where I live is seat of the headquzarters of the Durch-German corps (at least I think it still is), and an major administrative and medium logistcla centre of the Bundeswehr, which amke shte icty not a top priotiy target but a prferred target of interest in an nuclear exyhcnage, I assume. I live 2km form t eh city centrre where all these milizary organsiaitons have their compunds, so I muist n ot opwrry to prepoare for a nculear strike, it makes no sense to do so. If it happens, I will not even need to take note of it, that quickly it qill happen. Also, Germany is a tightly crowded place, imagine a quarter of the American population crowded into just one of the smaller US federal states. Running for shelter in an "isolated" place...? In that scenario I am meant to die from cremation, not from exhaustion.

[Onkel Neal]

Make sure you shore it up well or the walls or roof could collapse. The corners are designed to carry all the weight, the rest not so much.



You are correct. Better off using concrete and cinderblocks.

[Aktungbby]

Now that is is a constructive comment!:O: just make sure there's room for the motorcycle(s):yep:

[mapuc]

You are correct. Better off using concrete and cinderblocks.

Do not forget to mix lead balls with the concrete.

I'm not kidding-Those shelter our government has have concreate wall mixed with lead balls in it.

Markus

[Jeff-Groves]

when you bury a container? You brace the inside walls then pour concrete on the outside walls. Reinforce with rebar if your smart.
Once the outside walls are cured, brace the roof and do a pour.
I'd suggest water proofing around the container also.

[Skybird]

Image change of preppers. In German.

https://www.achgut.com/artikel/vom_imagewandel_der_prepper

You could try Google translator but it does not work too well with this text, due to its witty-crotchety style.

I am ahead of this winter with my planning cycle, and have ordered both for myself and my parents more petroleum, and "activated" part of my additional sweet water reserve holding, an additional 150 liters. Without power: neither heating nor sweet water, thats why. And Russia's cyberwar is hot since years, but now may turn even more aggressive to disrupt Western societies.

Power-independent petroleum ovens are incredibly tough to get now. Interesting. There seem to be quite some heads out there where inside them this certain coin if dropping. A market where I was last Monday: the employee told me their electricity-dependent petroleum ovens lay like lead in the shelves. :D Odour-free good petroleum also is impossible to get inside Germany wihtoiut severla weeks dleivery time, I order it from the Netherland, Belgium and Italy. And cheaper it is, too.

Trust in the German energy revolution seems to be very high, and growing. :haha:

I have stored now almost the legal limit of petroleum, which is at 200l in Germany, like for Diesel. (Gasoline just 10l or 20l in garages), and then all combined.

This plus now over 300l sweet water at any time and enough food for 2 months plus, and then plenty of batteries and other needed ressources.

Its not Russian bombers overhead, its blackouts due to cyberattacks that keep me hoarding. Raised alert, so to speak.


I wish I would live in a rural place and on own land. I then would have a squirrel rescue station and aviary (serious) - and also would start digging a cave. :LOL: Would also have learned to farm some vegetable and such myself, have one or two apple trees, and so forth. Maybe even soime animals, but not sure. Hens, why not, and geese take care of themselves...


I also would have two or three robo-sentry-guns from "Aliens", to keep what is mine. :D

[August]

when you bury a container? You brace the inside walls then pour concrete on the outside walls. Reinforce with rebar if your smart.
Once the outside walls are cured, brace the roof and do a pour.
I'd suggest water proofing around the container also.




That's a darn good idea. Use the container as part of the concrete form. :hmmm:

[Red October1984]

Always wanted to do the underground shelter idea. Especially since I became a Mine Engineer and have blasted out tunnels IRL.



Getting a degree in how to do it just gives me more expensive and dangerous ideas unfortunately......but I've got a rock face on the family farm going into the side of the mountain. Would be a ton of fun to get an old jackleg drill, a couple friends, and a skid steer to knock out a little cave shelter there. Maybe I'll even build a bar for it.



Why? No particular reason other than I want to tell people I own a cave. :haha:

[ET2SN]

Meanwhile, not quite Doomsday but more like Pain-In-The-Neck Day. :03:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zsTGA0EV3g

The basic idea, cover your back in case the WWW goes FUBAR.

- Keep some (not a LOT of) cash stashed/handy. Again, not a lot of cash. Just enough to get by while things reset. We're talking some $10's and $20 in your wallet, don't be the guy who tries to buy a pack of gum with a $100 bill. A couple of hundred bucks in 10's and 20's is fine.

- Keep any prescriptions on hand that you need.

- Think about how to communicate and travel if needed.

-Buy one or two shipping containers of toilet paper and LYSOL because OH MY GOD, YOU'RE GOING TO NEED IT!!!! :k_confused:
Kidding, don't panic. Just be ready in case certain world powers decide to act like angry three year old's. :yep:

EDIT- I almost skipped the important part.

-Spread the word. If you're the only guy in town who got their #### in one sock before the mayhem happened, how is that helping you?? :03:

[mapuc]

Read an article in a Danish newspaper about Danish preppers

One of them a woman had bought things so she and her family could survive for 3 days......3 DAY's !!?.

This is not a real prepper. Secondly if our leaders chose to act like 3 years old then it somehow doesn't really matter how much food and water you have gathered.

Markus

[em2nought]

-Buy one or two shipping containers of toilet paper and LYSOL because OH MY GOD, YOU'RE GOING TO NEED IT!!!! :k_confused:


Walmart had a nice Bidet on clearance for $9.00, and it works pretty well. Just the one valve that's included would cost more than that at Ace Hardware.

[Skybird]

Walmart had a nice Bidet on clearance for $9.00, and it works pretty well. Just the one valve that's included would cost more than that at Ace Hardware.


No power - no tap water.


Same for heating and many ovens.

[Onkel Neal]

No power - no tap water.


Same for heating and many ovens.

Only if you live in a city.:03:

https://youtu.be/xv5hkO1unQ0

https://youtu.be/eQbTqQJ_8yk

[Buddahaid]

Or somewhere where the water table is deep. I'd be better off with a portable desalination unit of some type.

[Skybird]

Only if you live in a city.:03:

https://youtu.be/xv5hkO1unQ0
Nord Stream 3 ?

[Jeff-Groves]

Save some money with a Safe Shed.
You dig a hole and bury it!
https://www.safesheds.com/

[Onkel Neal]

Reason for optimism

https://i.insider.com/5a981865aae60524008b4677?width=1000&format=jpeg&auto=webp

After 1 week the Hot Zone will be the size of the max extent of the DFZ (10-20 miles).

[mapuc]

As I see it, the problem is not that the enemy drop one 10kt nuke-No they will drop hundred if not thousand of nukes with a variety of strength from 10 kt to 5 or higher megaton nukes.

Try to make same calculation as shown in your picture, but here you have 6 Mirv-2 Megaton nukes overlapping each other hitting Washington.

Markus

[Rockstar]

Can’t remember who it was but somebody here at Subim posted this “Nuke Map” many years ago.


https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/

[Onkel Neal]

As I see it, the problem is not that the enemy drop one 10kt nuke-No they will drop hundred if not thousand of nukes with a variety of strength from 10 kt to 5 or higher megaton nukes.

Try to make same calculation as shown in your picture, but here you have 6 Mirv-2 Megaton nukes overlapping each other hitting Washington.

Markus


Sure, there are numerous scenarios. It could be a massive strike, it could be a very limited strike. I can't do much about a massive strike but if the Russians hit us with 10 nukes and the US responds in kind, that could be enough to stop both parties.

As I said, who knows what can happen and how our chances are, but I am thinking about the possibility that smart measures the first 30 days could allow us to get over the worst of it and continue with our lives, whereas not making these moves could result in us being the fallen victims of a small strike that the rest of the nation holds vigils and lights candles for you.

[mapuc]

^ You're right there are many scenarios when it comes to this MAD-thing.

Lets hope it doesn't come so far.

Even though you may be correct when you wrote:

I say 50/50 chance we will have a nuke exchange within the next year
(not exactly what you wrote)

Forgot something
In this picture they use a 10kt nuke-I call these small nukes tactical nukes and would most likely be used on the battle field-When it comes to military complex and cities the strength will a lot higher.

Markus

[Skybird]

In case of even "just a limited" nuclear exchange, even if not killing me directly or in the aftermath, the stupidity in this event most likely would frustrate me to death anyway.

[mapuc]

Wanted to know the different between ground and air blast

Found this

http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2019/ph241/abbate2/

Markus

[Jimbuna]

In case of even "just a limited" nuclear exchange, even if not killing me directly or in the aftermath, the stupidity in this event most likely would frustrate me to death anyway.

Same here :yep:

[mapuc]

It's not only nukes we have to fear-there's also Chemical and biological weapons.

I don't know which of these weapon of mass destruction is worse

Markus

[Jeff-Groves]

Consider Covid as practice.

[Jimbuna]

Well if you ever find yourself within the lethal radius of their payload you want it to be nuclear so the result isn't a slow lingering one.

[Skybird]

Different to what usually is said, chemical weapons are not really used as WMDs. Also, Russia today has only a tiny fraction of what it once had. Most of its former arsenals has been destroyed, confirmed so, due to disarmament treaties.

[nikimcbee]

Maybe it's time to re-visit this old classic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_of_Power_(video_game)

[nikimcbee]

I can't do much about a massive strike but if the Russians hit us with 10 nukes and the US responds in kind, that could be enough to stop both parties.



Well Neal, it would've been nice to do one, last subsim BBQ, but it may take a Texan to end this? Here's to extra spicy BBQ sauce and banana creme pie!:Kaleun_Cheers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snTaSJk0n_Y

[ET2SN]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcCttmOlQJg


I have learned to trust and be a fan of Max Brooks. :yeah:

Even though he sold the rights to World War Z to Brad Pitt. :doh:

Seriously, he has some very close ties to the US Army and West Point.

[Gorpet]

The children our current politicians and their offspring can say, We changed the world and saved the planet.If they survive the bunkers and the first thing out of their mouths. We need to hold an election.

[ET2SN]

New videos from Steve1989. :yep:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6FfBkt_KBc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo8GJ1B-7J4

Two spoon solos in the Canadian MRE vid. :rock:

[ET2SN]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMSh-gFUxrM

Nice hiss. :up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW8oDvrIj5A

Spoon solo at 17:15 :rock:

[les green01]

they film a lot of the day after around my home town remember us kids riding bikes out to watch them film and Jason Robards talking to us and giving autographs just watch the movie if a full blown nuclear exchange pop your feet up light up a good smoke pour yourself a shot

[mapuc]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMSh-gFUxrM

Nice hiss. :up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW8oDvrIj5A

Spoon solo at 17:15 :rock:

Forgot to mentioned these

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004JT7F8I?psc=1&th=1&ascsubtag=1665516|n63bc7355305c4fb8a6e175c110e4a2b 418|B004JT7F8I&linkCode=gs2&tag=dotdash21-21

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00EEIPOOQ?psc=1&th=1&ascsubtag=1665516|n63bc7355305c4fb8a6e175c110e4a2b 418|B00EEIPOOQ&linkCode=gs2&tag=dotdash21-21

Markus

[Rockstar]

https://youtu.be/YjHSHFHokGs

[ET2SN]

Forgot to mentioned these

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004JT7F8I?psc=1&th=1&ascsubtag=1665516|n63bc7355305c4fb8a6e175c110e4a2b 418|B004JT7F8I&linkCode=gs2&tag=dotdash21-21

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00EEIPOOQ?psc=1&th=1&ascsubtag=1665516|n63bc7355305c4fb8a6e175c110e4a2b 418|B00EEIPOOQ&linkCode=gs2&tag=dotdash21-21

Markus

The problem with The Big Bucket 'O Food packages is that you're supposed to normally eat your way through them prior to restocking. If the Big Bucket features a sturdy weather resistant sealed top, that makes it a pain to open so the Big Bucket winds up in a closet, garage, or basement where it eventually turns into the Big Bucket 'O Biology Experiment. :o

I try to keep it simple.

Small- Easy to grab and store.

Sealed and Shelf Stable- Can be stored at room temperature for extended periods while also being portable and easy to open.

Pre Cooked- All you have to figure out is how to open the container, cutlery and plates are optional. So is a camp fire.


These are normally not foods for the health conscious, they often contain high levels of salt/sodium and animal fats plus preservatives but you should be able to choke down a small can of Spam or Vienna Sausages or a Hormel Ready To Eat meal once a month with no damages while you replenish/rotate your stock.

Something that usually goes unrecognized- that lowly tin of Sardines. :yeah:
Canned sardines packed in oil can be stored for YEARS with no hassles. You are also getting a healthy dose of vitamins and minerals. Kippers (canned smoked sardines) actually benefit (IMO) from getting stored on the shelf for several years, their flavor mellows out a bit.

Things I would avoid in survival foods-

Nuts or oily seeds. The oil WILL go rancid sooner than you would think. If you stashed a bag of TRAIL MIX on the shelf, make sure you pick out all of the nuts and seeds before it gets too old. Dried fruit and grain will hold up nicely in dry conditions, rancid nuts and seeds will quickly turn the entire bag into garbage.

ANYTHING which includes directions such as "Simply boil in the pouch for 35-45 minutes", as an example. Think this stuff through, you might have time to build a camp site and a latrine, you might find a source of clean water, why are you wasting all of it to build a Sous Vide kitchen? :haha:

One last note to ponder- Are you sure you need that camp fire? :hmmm: Building a fire takes time and effort. It also acts like an open invitation to anyone who is cold, hungry, or alone. While I strongly believe in getting a group together to maximize your odds, maybe its better to figure out the situation before you put down those roots. :up:

[Skybird]

A good canned food does not include preservatives - because it does not need them. ;)

Sodium content is no concern, that is a modern health myth, and it kills people by the hundreds of thousands every year. In North America and Europe, in the times before electricty and refrigerators, people ate 80, 100, 120 gr of pickling salt, we know of regions on both continents where these daily doses of salt reached as high as 200 gr over the day. We have however no historic records indicating that this caused cardiovascular health problems in the population of pandemic or even just small proportions. Nothing. By modenr beleives, all thes emillions od people should have died of their diet. They haven'T, and the rise in cardiovascular deseases and high blood pressure happened just later: when salt was reduced and industrially processed food and sugars and plant seed oils (=Omega 6) started their victory parades.

We are talking emergency here. In emergency, eating is a necessity, and is about intake of energy - not about taste, not about longterm health. While we should watch fructose and glucose syrups and sugar levels in our normal food (the less of these the better), in emergencies some sugar is wanted, especially if you have no fats to eat.

Cans have one problem, that is the protective layer inside them that prevents them from corroding, these can bring BPA (bisphenol-A) into the food. In times of emergency, this is no concern, but if oyu store cans in larger quantity for years and years, you may want to rotate them frequently, have the old ones sorted out and replaced with new ones. Cans that are deformed and have bumps and bulges, should not be bought or should be sorted out, the protective layer could be broken inside and then the tranmsission of BPA into the food is speeded up. In some countries like france BPA-cans are banned since some years, and replaced with cans using alternative materials to protect against corrosion. Whether these work better in the long run and cause no health issues, is unknown, since we have no longterm experiences yet.

Fish in cans does not suffer from worth to be mentioned loss of Omega 3 and Vitamines! Believe it! Canned fish is roughly as healthy as fresh fish! I am not kidding you. Thjt makes especially fatty fish an ideal food to can and stockpile. High nutriton value. Do not buy cannef fish ion plant see oil, but always in "own juice", which means: salty water and only the fish's own fat. They use supercheap oil for fish-in-oil cans, and these oils are so bad that they are not suitable for getting consumed by humans.

Vegetables in good quality cans have not been boiled, but have only been shortly blanched, they are so soft and creamy not because they were boiled too long, but because they had months and years to pick up moisture from the liquid in the can. Such vegetables have comparable ammounts of vitamines as "fresh" vegetable from the supermarket's grocery table. That is because they get processed much faster and have much less time for oxidation processes. The same phenomenon is known from deep-frozen vegetables: these often have MORE vitamines than the vegetable you buy "fresh"! Its all about how long it takes to process the stuff and how long it is exposed to the air and has time to oxidize. Frozen and canned food has the advantage in this regard as long as you do not harvest the stuff in your garden and immediately process it in your kitchen. That of course would be the ideal. And costs much time and work (for the gardening work).

Date stamps on cans is for national legal regulations exclusively, and serve no further purpose. Cans, if intact, can last for decades! No kidding, decades. Thats why in some countries they even have no date stamps anymore on cans.

Eating is affecting morale and mood. If there is an lasting emergency, and the stuff you live of gives you additional hard time to even just swallow because it tastes so "well", this is not helpful to keep the spirit high. So try and test which canned foods you like and which ones not while the times are still peaceful and relaxed - and then stockpile these only. Learn which food works well for getting canned, and which food does not, tastewise.

I've been systematically testing my way through the local offerings for over a year, and from that experience I'll say this: anything that's boiled down watery, thin, marketed as soup with chowder: Hands off. Soups with noodles, canned pasta, ravioli: hands off. Canned meat can go completely wrong but also work amazingly well, but only if it's a bit more high-priced than the usual canned stuff, otherwise it's not much meat and the can has the typical hated "canned flavor" we're all rightly disgusted by. What works very well, even tastes partly to my surprise very tasty, are creamy boiled down stews: pea soup, potato stews, lentil potato dishes. In Germany, the various potato pots of Erasaco, bean pots. These all benefit mostly from a little seasoning with savory (Bohnenkraut!!!), marjoram, pepper. I must confess: I can't get them any better by hand, unbelievable but true.

Absolute no-goes: canned ravioli, and chicken soup with noodles, roulades. Even the dog throws up.

I have many cans of tomato soup (Heinz), bihun soup, and additional soups stored next to the other canned goods, along with lots of millet. Millet doesn't cost much water to cook, unlike pasta, contains fiber, nutrients, is versatile to use savory and sweet, and super storable. Along with psyllium husks for thickening, this increases the variety of my canned supplies.

There are also some manufacturers who offer very good sauerbraten and goulash in cans. But you have to try out which brands are good and which are not. Some taste pfui-bah, others have only water and far too little meat content. For Germany, I could recommend the company Werner Simon, really good meat content, and taste okay, mild, but good, a little too mildly seasoned maybe, but they always do this mild taste, because they do not want to anger their many different customers, so the taste must be universal and not too crass. You can season it yourself with chili, pepper, and some spices. Simon offers both gulash and sauerbraten in three different preparation variations.

If you do it right, cans much better than their reputation. You just have to do a little trial and error beforehand to learn what works and what doesn't.

Some foods like corn and tomatoes benefit from their canned storage by improving their micronutrient levels! This has been known for a long time.

[mapuc]

Could not find it anymore Some month ago while searching for survival food (kits) I found a German homepage where you could buy a 90 days survival kits.

Markus

[Skybird]

Such kits usually are overpriced, I found. Do your own collection.


For the worst, and as a last line of defence if other food of ypours has run out: NRG-5.


Crates with bottled water. As many as you can store. Of water you never can have enough.



Diversify you options to run a fire for cooking, as long as you dare cooking (safety from crime). One can imagine situations when one doesnot want to attract attention from lighting a fire. Gas cartridges, fuel, gasoline, wood, coal, if you have options to use any fuel you may stumble over, thats not bad.



Oats, rice, hirse: Wastes no water, like boiling potatoes or noddles would. Long storage if stored dry, and cool.


Canned bread. Other cans, as previously described.


Honey, unlimited shelf life.



When things are desperate and the going gets too tough for you: Liqueur. The poor man's cyancali pill. :D

[mapuc]

Water!?

Remember an article some weeks ago in a Swedish newspaper.

Collect enough water for 10 days* and it has to be bottle water not water from the-forgot the word-Since this is not sanitary.

* 10 Days !! Hmm if the society collapse it would take more than 10 days to get it up and running again-If worst case scenario should happen-Well then you need to store water for the rest of your life.

Edit
Forgot something
Maybe they take an overprice for their products-But it can reach until 2033/4 and it contain the thing you need on a daily basis...So in this case I would say, with my little knowledge that these survival food kits are good-Not 100 % perfect thou.
End Edit


Markus

[Skybird]

Katadyn Micropur Forte MF 100F opills or drops keeps your water sterile for weeks and months. It suse don expeditions, in desaster relief and military operations.

Superfind24 water bags 15l or 30l allow you to store clean water once you filled them up. They are sealed against light. As long as you see no emergency coming you can store them folder and empty, takes no space.

You need water to drink and cook. For cleanignb and hygiene, you can keep wet one way washcloths like they are beign used in hospitals. Count 1.5l per day, per person. In real desaster situaitons of cours eoyu will also be able to livwe ithl,ess. But water is the top priority, next protection against cold or even freezing temps. - And just then comes food. You can live for days without food, if need be. But not without water.

The manufacturer of those waterbags has a longtime test running, and has stored some such waterbags in the garden, exposed to all seasons, sunlight, falling dirt,. weather, ice. SINCE TWO YEARS. Frequent checks show the water still is clean and has drinking water quality. You just have to be sure you have extremely clean conditions when filling them, up from the tab.

Get water bottles made of of glass and with metal caps, not PVC caps or bottles. Take water with intense sparkling, the gas has an additional desinfecting quality. Store in cool places, and protected from light, especially direct sunlight.

Everybody should prepare according to his free space where he can place stuff, and his financial possibilities. Evberybody should do what he can according to his living conditions.

DO NOT TRUST THE STATE TO HELP YOU OUT if things turn nasty. It will not because it cannot if the deasaster is affecting the whole country/continent and is not just regional, local, minor.

Better be early or excessive than sorry.


Do like our grandparents all did: run a stockpiling regiment. Rotate your supplies. The old supplies are used up and replaced immediately with newer ones. Like in the supermarket shelf: take away from the front, refill from the back. Simple. Effective. Logical.

[Rockstar]

https://youtu.be/NCBG_aVkv4s

[Catfish]

^ nah, all made-up fake news.
Nothing to do with climate.
Or maybe.
But then only a bit.
But even if, humans are not responsible.
Science is bad.
Planets are abundant in the universe, but earth's economy is unique.
Don't change, billions of more humans wil tackle the problem.
But there is no problem.

[Skybird]

Aliens. Its those damn aliens. First the cow mutilations, now this.

[Catfish]

Aliens. Its those damn aliens. First the cow mutilations, now this.
I am a foreigner here on earth, so please no insults. We need your water, not cows :D

[August]

^ nah, all made-up fake news.
Nothing to do with climate.
Or maybe.
But then only a bit.
But even if, humans are not responsible.
Science is bad.
Planets are abundant in the universe, but earth's economy is unique.
Don't change, billions of more humans wil tackle the problem.
But there is no problem.


I hear it's real dry in the Sahara desert too.

[Rockstar]

^ nah, all made-up fake news.
Nothing to do with climate.
Or maybe.
But then only a bit.
But even if, humans are not responsible.
Science is bad.
Planets are abundant in the universe, but earth's economy is unique.
Don't change, billions of more humans wil tackle the problem.
But there is no problem.

IMO what makes this an issue is not climate change or unbelievers of science. But man’s feeble attempt to control nature. We thought if we could just build dams and water reservoirs in the desert. Then we can build cities and monuments to ourselves in a desert and pat ourselves on the back for our ingenuity. We built pretty green golf courses and towns people can now populate the desert by the millions each watering their own little green acre they created in the desert. They thought living in a desert was good idea but you need a lot of water if you’re going to live in a desert. No matter how much we decorated the desert it’s still a desert though. Now when all the water we collected in the desert dries up. Instead of admitting how stupid it was to build in the desert we blame it on climate change? :hmmm::)

In other places I would see modern homes built along river banks. But behind them on top of the hills were homes built in the 1700’s. These modern homes along the river bank had an awesome view but were sometimes destroyed by floods. As for those homes built on the hills they’re still standing going on for almost three hundred years now. Vanity will get ya every time ;)

[Skybird]

With many constructions, we affect climate and environment, and with the activity from these constructions.

Its way more complex and interactive than you simplify it here. The climate always has chnaged, it never stayed the same. But somethign got a strong bias here, and at the direction of that bias it has tremedously accelerated to move. The bias is caused by us, by our sheer numbers of people.

A fanfare, please: Tätärätäää:
"We are too many!" (tm)

"Was kümmert uns die Zukunft,
wir beichten im Gebet:
Verzeih' mir meine Habgier,
denn mein ist der Planet!"


- Udo Jürgens, refering to Gen 1, 26-28. (What do we care about the future,/we confess in prayer:/Forgive me my greed,/for mine is the planet!)

But I admit civilizations long before or parrallel to the Christian one already walked into that trap, too, by allowing to become "too many", or staying in unsuitable places too long.

[Rockstar]

With many constructions, we affect climate and environment, and with the activity from these constructions.

Its way more complex and interactive than you simplify it here. The climate always has chnaged, it never stayed the same. But somethign got a strong bias here, and at the direction of that bias it has tremedously accelerated to move. The bias is caused by us, by our sheer numbers of people.

A fanfare, please: Tätärätäää:
"We are too many!" (tm)

"Was kümmert uns die Zukunft,
wir beichten im Gebet:
Verzeih' mir meine Habgier,
denn mein ist der Planet!"


- Udo Jürgens, refering to Gen 1, 26-28. (What do we care about the future,/we confess in prayer:/Forgive me my greed,/for mine is the planet!)

But I admit civilizations long before or parrallel to the Christian one already walked into that trap, too, by allowing to become "too many", or staying in unsuitable places too long.


Sorry didn’t mean imply climate doesn’t change. It was directed at climate change politics and band wagon activists.

The jet stream is a major influence on blocking highs and the arctic is said to have a major influence on the jet stream, and Pacific deep warm water currents are having an effect on the arctic. And nobody, except of course climate change politics and its believers really knows for sure why this going on. But one thing is for certain it’s not the first time a major change in weather patterns has affected the globe and whole civilizations.

[Skybird]

Well, me too. I agree with the diagnosis that climate becomes warmer, and that humans significantly contribute to that effect by accelerating it. But i disagree wiht many of the conclusions drawn from that. I think it cannot be reversed by human action and in short time. What would be needed is to adapt (to living on a much warmer planet). But this I cannot see being done, instead: reality denial and the attempt to push back time by a hundred years. Also: massive abuse of ecology topics for implementing social engineering and wealth redistribution schemes and left-leaning socialist, even openly Marxist community models. A fundamental hijack of science, and a collective sanctionising and censoring of every scientist disagreeing with this "mainstream dogma". I disagree with the naive idea of that deindustrialisation and destroying technology would make the world better. But many seem to believe exactly this. I think without technology we are doomed to go extinct, and that technology, stemming from our human intellect our species has formed out, is part and self-expression of our species' biological evolution. Rejecting technology means rejecting evolution. However, I am against uncritical and unreflected naive excessive over-use of technology. Every coin has two sides.


And a side rim. :O:

[Rockstar]

I’ve never really bit down hard on the climate change bandwagon hook. In fact once I saw it as a political bandwagon I let go and swam away. :D

Too many other religious texts prove what mankind does trying to explain the natural world around him. No matter the religion they tend to blame themselves. Blood moon? Be warned you did something wrong. Solar Eclipse? It’s your fault the gods are angry. Floods? You sinner! Hurricanes, Volcanoes, Lightening, they write it’s something we must have done to cause it. Enter the Climate Change religion.

So here we have people living in a desert and the water is drying up. And almost immediately out come the faithful pointing fingers accusing man for causing this disaster which has befallen them. When after some of my own inquiry I come to find out Arctic ice sheets, or the lack thereof, is thought to affect the location of the Jet Stream which in turn can lock in a blocking high pressure system which can dramatically reduce any chance of precipitation.

Northern ice sheets and glaciers, or the lack thereof, in and around Arctic and The land of the Midnight Sun can not only affect the location of the Jet stream it can cause earth to wobble which can also affect climate. Now the religious faithful can lament the cause of arctic and Greenland ice melt is caused by man. That’s fine they can believe what they want to believe. As for me, I’m going with the idea of something called Mantle Plumes. Nature will take its course and the only thing is to get on your knees and pray because you can’t stop it. ;)

[Rockstar]

Only drawback I can see to this system is the powder has a three year shelf life.

https://youtu.be/cTLvNHdFB5c

[Skybird]

Nice if talking about biological con tamination. But how is it with chemical contamination? Pesticides, herbicides, artificial fertilizers from agriculture, urban fecal wastewater, industrial wastewater contaminated with heavy metals, gasoline, Diesel, even flight kerosin etc? The outdoor water cleaners I know are not suitable for this, but only for the filtration of protozoa, bacteria, and the deactivation of viruses. Not for chemical contamination.

[Rockstar]

Well there’s that too :D. But to clarify I’m talking about survival situations and hopefully not long term either. As a general rule of thumb depending on the persons health and activity the human body cannot go with out water for not much more than three days. And considering the consequences of not having any water at all. I’ll take my chances with almost any good water filtration system.

Without water you begin to lack of energy, develop headaches, dizziness and confusion. Then the possibility of heatstroke and heat cramps. Stiff joints that may eventually stick and not work properly. Raised or otherwise unregulated body temperature. Then the ever so pleasant thought of swelling in the brain, sharp changes in blood pressure, seizures and eventually death.


For me it all boils down to the lessor of two evils. :03:

[mapuc]

considering the consequences of not having any water at all. I’ll take my chances with almost any good water filtration system.


For me it all boils down to the lessor of two evils. :03:

This comment made me remember an episode with Bear Grylls.

In this episode he take some elephant poop up and then he squeeze the liquid out of this elephant poop

the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R25Eflr0oJ8

Markus

[Skybird]

Well there’s that too :D. But to clarify I’m talking about survival situations and hopefully not long term either. As a general rule of thumb depending on the persons health and activity the human body cannot go with out water for not much more than three days. And considering the consequences of not having any water at all. I’ll take my chances with almost any good water filtration system.

Without water you begin to lack of energy, develop headaches, dizziness and confusion. Then the possibility of heatstroke and heat cramps. Stiff joints that may eventually stick and not work properly. Raised or otherwise unregulated body temperature. Then the ever so pleasant thought of swelling in the brain, sharp changes in blood pressure, seizures and eventually death.


For me it all boils down to the lessor of two evils. :03:
Maybe you have another perspective because you live in the US and in a huge natural reserve, I dont know. But here in Germany practically every flowing surface water and lake that touches a city, agricultural fields, industrial plants, is grey water only. The use of filtration systems only filtering biological organisms must be warned against.

If it would be so easy to clean such water to a degree that humans can consume it safely, we would not spend billions in building ever more complicated water purifying plants in our cities.:03: And these report huge problems to clean the water of all the new toxines we add to it.

And even in the wilderness of countries like Sweden, Finland, Canada, Russia, you must check that the small stream of water you found maybe has not passed a mine one or two kilometers before - where maybe cyanides and other highly toxic agents may still persist and leak into the ground and water even if the mine has been shut down.

I would take the risk in a country like Sweden before I would take the risk in Germany. But even there never without checking the map carefully what lies upstream. Or lied there in the past.

BTW that is also common outdoor survival advice. Its been given like this in many instructional videos and texts.

Every river passing a city, settlement, industrial plant, farm, fields and so forth, must be considered as grey water. At least over here.



If at all possible, catch rain and clean that further. Even the rain is not as clean as many people seem to believe (thats why formally it is legally prohibited in Germany to collect rain for the pourpsoe of using it as your drinkling water). The German prohibition is probbaly exaggerated, yes - but "clean" rain water is not. Just cleaner than maybe what flows in the river over there. Rain washes all the air polution of industrial and settlement centres out of the air - guess where all the toxic chemical stuff then is?!

Just use some common sense. Do not trust purifiers blindly, and be aware they are not meant to clean water of chemical intoxications, only biological ones. More I do not mean to say. If handled correctly, it seems biological threats can be quite reliably controlled indeed.

[Rockstar]

I don’t know if anyone has touched on this yet. But I remember having to inspect the contents of survival gear aboard ships. In the early days cases contained canned water. A little later production switched to water packs much like those Capri-Sun juice packs. Provided there was no damage both had extremely long shelf life.

If contamination is as bad as you say. I suppose one could plan to store enough water for a certain length of time based on minimum daily requirements for a set number of people. Just like those ships survival rafts and lifeboats do. We’re not talking about quenching a thirst after plowing the lower 40 just what’s needed to survive.

[Skybird]

I don’t know if anyone has touched on this yet. But I remember having to inspect the contents of survival gear aboard ships. In the early days cases contained canned water. A little later production switched to water packs much like those Capri-Sun juice packs. Provided there was no damage both had extremely long shelf life.

If contamination is as bad as you say. I suppose one could plan to store enough water for a certain length of time based on minimum daily requirements for a set number of people. Just like those ships survival rafts and lifeboats do. We’re not talking about quenching a thirst after plowing the lower 40 just what’s needed to survive.
I know what you mean, tbe caprisun-like packs. I have a few of them, but for testing only. But i also have stored crates with bottled water, always a minimum of 120l. Sparkling water, in glass bottles. Cheap, easy. Plus protective water bags if i have time to prepare, 10x 20l. Plus several crates of bottled beer, wine...

People underestimate the meaning of blackouts for water supplies, and flushing toilets. If the blackout lasts on, both are gone sooner or later, and if it lasts for some days, pipes and purifying plants need to be cleaned and desinfected, purifyer plants need to rebuilt major parts of their systems. Electricity may be back after a week - but water can be down for weeks to come.

[Jeff-Groves]

If your near a stream dig a Coyote well.
Then distill the water. It's pretty simple to make a portable distiller.
If your in a situation where a fire is out of the question?
Perfectly clean water is down the list of what's gonna kill you!

[em2nought]

I'm looking forward to cutting into my friend's shed floor when I get back to Texas, and then getting into the storm shelter that's under it. Planning to put it back in service. I hope there aren't any snakes or radon. :hmmm: I might sleep in there if the grid goes out.

[August]

People underestimate the meaning of blackouts for water supplies, and flushing toilets. If the blackout lasts on, both are gone sooner or later, and if it lasts for some days, pipes and purifying plants need to be cleaned and desinfected, purifyer plants need to rebuilt major parts of their systems. Electricity may be back after a week - but water can be down for weeks to come.




Or,...


While city dwellers sit in their darkened cell block like basement apartments next to their rusty city water taps waiting for something drinkable to emerge, rural people have their own Artesian Wells and only need to power a water pump now and then to maintain pressure in the expansion tanks in order to have all the fresh, clean, filtered water that they want.

[ET2SN]

One of the items you always want for a bail-out bag or kit is a dependable source for making a fire. :up:

Probably the best tool for this job is a standard Zippo lighter with the original wet tank and flint insert. These "wet" type lighters will run on anything from lighter fuel to gasoline and even diesel fuel in a pinch. They are basically indestructible and simple to operate and also don't require a lot of room (you can easily pack two lighters, just in case). :yeah:

The only real downside to the basic Zippo is that they will leak fuel in the case of long-term storage.

Here's a cool video I found. Pay attention to the Number 2 and Number 1 inserts. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnjAKstyClU

These "Zorro" inserts have nifty shields for the bottom of the fuel tank and the wick. :yeah: This will make your lighter(s) a lot more leak and evaporation proof. BTW, make sure to store some extra flints under the fill cap. :yep:

[Skybird]

Leak-proof. Works like a charm.



https://www.biwak.com/out/pictures/generated/product/1/1500_1500_75/light_my_fire_firesteel_bio_army_2in1_z_nds_211101 0310_7057_1685.jpg

[Shady Bill]

During Covid-19 isolation I started a food and water storage program. I built up a stock of food, fresh water, ammunition and basic medicines that would last a family of 3 for 12 months.

I look for new things to add to my Plan B bag. I recently ran into;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikiReader

A palm-sized electronic device that displays the contents of SD card downloads of the entire wikipedia database. This device can search and display the entire wikipedia database which is updated 1x/2x per month.
I now update this every couple of months.

I really enjoy raspberry pi and arduino projects. It seems it shouldn't be that hard to search these wiki dump files. Quite frankly, the $140 Wikireader is garbage. It is flimsy. Is anyone aware of something much more rugged that is designed to use very little battery power? This thing is not designed for field usage, it is a toy. Not something you want when the Russian's knock out our internet.

What is in your "Plan B bag"?

[Armistead]

Have a 78 acre farm in the foothills of the Blue Ridge and prepared to farm old school. Right now I lease most the farmable land to a tobacco farmer. I love studying the 'old ways' when my grandpa worked the land with his father. I took several classes done by the Amish community nearby. I did do plow about half an acre this year with a horse team and hand plow and I don't know how grandpa did that with about 50 acres at the time. Also salt curing ham in the smokehouse and getting good at canning. Course I live in town about an hr away, but that's where I would be if the world went to smut.

[Shady Bill]

Thank you for sharing that. This sounds incredible.

I always wondered how much fertile land is required to feed a family. What crops are best to grow? which crops are most nutrient rich etc. I study these things.

All survival skills we have sadly forgotten. Things our forefathers knew instinctively.

I commend you for trying to preserve this knowledge.

[Shady Bill]

I highly recommend anyone to download onto a local drive the following;


https://ia800904.us.archive.org/3/items/Fm21-76SurvivalManual/FM21-76_SurvivalManual.pdf


It contains very useful information, explained in a simple manner.

[ET2SN]

We had a pretty good thread on this topic but I guess its gone? :hmmm:

All I can really offer is:

There is nothing in the Universe more useless than a vehicle with an automatic transmission and a dead starter. :yep:

This doesn't mean everyone needs to buy an antique Jeep. The point is to really look at your "worst case" plans, if you have any, and re-think them logically. Your plans should change over time to reflect your situation.

For example- what good is a home generator if you don't know how to run or maintain it? How would you get gasoline if the gas stations have lost power?

Stockpiling rice and pasta is worthless if you can't boil water just like canned foods are worthless without a manual can opener.

Instead of hunkering down, plan on how to move quickly. Being able to move quickly is worthless without an idea of where to go. Remember that de-commissioned missile silos are prone to flooding. :up: Always plan for things to screw up. While we're on the subject, try to keep your plans as simple as possible.

Hunting for game is fine, but what are you going to do once you drop that buck or a cow? Having 200 pounds of meat is great until it starts to rot. Learn how to make do with less.

If you're spending 36 consecutive hours defending your compound from strangers- YOU'VE ALREADY LOST. :yep: How are your People Skills? Can you build a team if it means your life depends on it? :yep:

[Skybird]

What crops are best to grow? which crops are most nutrient rich etc.


Hirse.

Long forgotten, but in Europe's past this was THE dominant starvation-preventing crop, not wheat or any of the other.

Hirse is very interesting. It does not belong to the class of grass seeds like wheat, rye, barley, and lacks the chemical defense agents of these plants that give some people troubles, it also does not cause ATI sensitivity. It is rich in nutrients, and although it must be peeled (we cannot digest unpeeled hirse at all), it looses only that amount of its nutrient content and minerals that equal the volume of the peeled-of skin of the complete Hirse-grain, because whereas wheat has the nutrients concentrated under the skin and looses them more or less completely when peeling, the nutrients in Hirse are equally distrubuted throughout the full grain/fruit, and so you loose only a small quantity of nutrient value when peeling. Hirse is also easy to grow, I read, it needs less care and especially less water than the other crops and grains, and is more robust against heat and dryness. Its extremely versatile in the kitchen, can be used salty or sweet, soup-like or dumpling-like, and you can easily replace rice with it. Different to Quinoa and Amaranth, it does not have these Southamerican grains' typical and somewhat bitter own taste that i do not like at all, and since you can plant hirse everywhere its better for climate protection (no need to shuttle it from one continent to the next, if only we would start to farm it in bigger quantity). For cooking, you can do practically everything with it.
I love Hirse, and if I would start doomsday farming myself (I know nothing about farming...), Hirse would be my first choice for grains.


One disadvantage: Baking bread with it should prove difficult, I would expect... As I read it you must add wheat flour, hirse flour alone does not work well. Personally, i would not care at all to break bread in case of such doomsday emergency.


It currently gets farmed almost completely in Asia (China... is there aqnythign we do not depoend on China?) and a bit in africa, but sees a slow-advancing revival in Europe as well, which i absolutely welcome.

As a matter of fact I have a rich reserve of Hirse in my clever-prepper-doomsday-cellar. Becasue that alöso is an advanatge: it is easy to store and last longs. You only need a cup pf hot water do prepare, you waste much less water than for boiling potatoes or pasta, for example, like rice cooking the you need only a small quantity of water and it gets completely consummed, and you must not boil it all the time. Heat it up once and then switch it off and leave it alone. Works with milk as well, if need be.


You may have realised it by now: Im a great fan of hirse. ;)

[Skybird]

We had a pretty good thread on this topic but I guess its gone?

In this universe nothing ever is gone. It only transforms, or moves to another place. ;)


https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=201465&highlight=prepper

[Jimbuna]

Threads merged.

[Shady Bill]

Threads merged.


Thank you! My apologies. You guys truly have a thread for everything.
Very impressive :Kaleun_Cheers:

[mapuc]

Thank you! My apologies. You guys truly have a thread for everything.
Very impressive :Kaleun_Cheers:

I'm searching for a thread about surviving an economical breakdown.

Having a hunch on who made this thread.

Edit
Found it but it wasn't so much about economical breakdown though
https://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=195918
End edit

Markus

[ET2SN]

Black market and gray market economies are not all that unique. :up:

Its pretty basic. "I'll trade you a canteen and its good water (assuming you have several) for that steel pitcher in your scrap pile". "Throw in a pack of iodine tablets and its a deal". "Half a pack of tablets and we'll shake hands".

On a more practical, short term, level- make sure you have some cash on hand. Spend it only when you have to. A short stack of ten and twenty dollar bills can go a LONG way. Avoid carrying large bills, don't be the A Hole trying to buy a summer sausage with a 100 dollar bill. :yep: In an emergency situation, NO ONE cares if you're well-off.

[ET2SN]

Something I've been kicking around for this thread is the concept of Leadership, what it really is, and how to use it. :up:

In the military, a good and effective leader knows how to follow orders. They also have the experience and training to make them good at it. Many sailors know how to move the boat but there can be only one Captain, right?

Well, maybe not. I guess the point of this post is what if that natural leader ain't you? :yep: Having a big ego can be helpful but it can also guarantee that you'll starve alone and cold.

Let's say you're part of a group that includes a little old lady who grew up on a farm before she had to move to the city. Guess who sits on top of the leader board for your group? :up:

[Skybird]

You survive like you have trained. :doh: Best train with this :o :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS9c1ti7dpc


:O:

[Rockstar]

Leak-proof. Works like a charm.



https://www.biwak.com/out/pictures/generated/product/1/1500_1500_75/light_my_fire_firesteel_bio_army_2in1_z_nds_211101 0310_7057_1685.jpg

I found theses little round 100% cotton facial pads make a for very good fire starter when used with one those strikers. They come in plastic ziplock bags so always stay dry, very convenient. All it takes one little spark and they catch fire.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f6/53/89/f65389847ebe21a6711169cd5cb97b91.jpg

[mapuc]

< If you can't get hold of what Skybird have shown us then maybe this could be of use.

https://quickparts.dk/gnist-gastaender/311544/

Markus

[Skybird]

I found theses little round 100% cotton facial pads make a for very good fire starter when used with one those strikers. They come in plastic ziplock bags so always stay dry, very convenient. All it takes one little spark and they catch fire.



The textile flakes everybody has in the pockets of his trousers or pullovers. Some vaseline on the fingertip, take the flakes and rub the vasline in, add some crispy, dry, fibre-like other material. The flakes you can comb out of a carpet, too, especially if cotton, natural fibre, or a fur. Sheep fur that you occasionally comb to make the hairs nice again also produces good stuff, but always add some small quantity of vaseline. Create a reservoir of small fibre-vaseline balls that way. Very handy. And kind of water-proof, which might be useful if you really are outdoors, then there must be sufficient vaseline being used, of course.

Dont try to use toilet paper to light a fire, cleenex and such. Does not work, it only glows, but does not burn, does not feed a flame.

So much to be found in nature works, beginners in fire-making however often make the mistake that they want to light the "final" fire immediately, the wood they plan to use. But one has to make a small fire nest first, from light, lose dry stuff, and even dry straw or whatever should be rubbed until the fibres are loose and soft and good air circulation is possible, then it works easy.

If using a lens and sunlight: it works, but is more difficult. Burn the material first to blacken it, make sort of charcoal of it, move the focus of the sunölight and lenbse over the surface like a laser. And that "charcoal" area you then try to light with a lense and sunlight in the second working step. I found this to be the only way working on wood. To just focus sunlight via lense on a piece of wood never did the trick for me, never, it smoldered, but never started to form flames. I needed to turn bigger parts of it into charcoal first, the blakc parts then catches and feeds fire, and form that the fire then sporeads to the full piec eof wood.

Best solution: have a lighter with you. Just no gasoline Zippo, they are always empty when you need them, the vapors escape way to fast for these things being useful.

[Rockstar]

I just find them convenient when using with a flint starter, they catch fire really quick. Packing only a dozen or so in a ziplock when I go out keeps them dry and relatively clean and can be used to help stop bleeding on minor boo-boos too. :)

[mapuc]

Something I've been kicking around for this thread is the concept of Leadership, what it really is, and how to use it. :up:

In the military, a good and effective leader knows how to follow orders. They also have the experience and training to make them good at it. Many sailors know how to move the boat but there can be only one Captain, right?

Well, maybe not. I guess the point of this post is what if that natural leader ain't you? :yep: Having a big ego can be helpful but it can also guarantee that you'll starve alone and cold.

Let's say you're part of a group that includes a little old lady who grew up on a farm before she had to move to the city. Guess who sits on top of the leader board for your group? :up:

A little off topic imaginary stories based on the quoted

I get this picture.

It has been a major disaster, people are without electricity, electronic and water.

Those who has survived have agreed on a meeting to discuss further plans a.s.o.

Here a huge discussion on which politician(There will be some who survived)shall be the leader.

Even after some major disaster, People will discuss heavily on who should be the leader.
The surviving humans want their survived politician to be the leader of this little society.

Now enough of this lets go back to discuss survival situation/Preppers

End of an off topic...

Markus

[Skybird]

For those who can understand German.

This is an official report commissioned by the German Bundestag in 2011, describing the scenarios that could be expected in the event of a prolonged nationwide power outage lasting from several hours to several days. The reading is somewhat sobering and should thoroughly disillusion any optimist who imagines that this is an unusual but easily manageable event with the charm of a camping vacation and campfire romance. The cascading effects and consequences are already after a short time for the state and its organs and services as well as the supply structures no longer controllable, the long-term consequences after elimination of the blackout absolutely catastrophic and future-changing. Supply and security for the population are to be regarded as total failures - already after a discouragingly short time.

https://dserver.bundestag.de/btd/17/056/1705672.pdf

I expect that this winter there will be at least announced, intentional intermittent power shutdowns of a few hours a day in at least some regions.

A private broadcaster's news this evening also reported that shorter local blackouts in the power grids of smaller towns and communities have been clustering in Germany in recent months. I have posted many times that the number of severe near-disasters at the continental power grid level, which could only be averted at the last moment, has increased significantly from year to year for about a decade or more. The federal government is bitterly silent on this issue and refuses to provide any information. Only the dumbing down propaganda, with tips on the level of weekly magazines for the dementia-stricken Aunt Frieda, is running like clockwork and has been expanded further and further..Alles klar auf der Andrea Doria! :yeah:

The responsible ministry, already under Merkel, planned already early, with the creation of the technical conditions for that electric cars can be abused at charging stations remotely controlled as intermediate power storages and feed their power from their batteries back into the public net, if need exists, where as the now responsible secretary of state in the economics ministry pleased the scientists with the revelation that politics now succeeded, finally, to declare the concept of base load security in the power supply as obsolete, and to secure as a substitute the future power supply of Germany by the mere fact that the current political leadership of new, future-oriented people is mastering the problem by their "new and superior mindset" (original quote), by which probably - at least this would be to be hoped - the electrification of the brain owners who are spouting this stupid nonsense is meant. For winning electricity from burning stupid brains, Germany has a very huge supply, we could easily live over the winter, and then for years to come.

Wanted or unwanted, shorter or longer blackouts in Germany are a very plausible and realistic scenario now. Add to it the chance that Russia is cyberattacking Germany's critical infrastructure, too. They do it sionce many years already, to test our vulnerabilities. Absolutely possible that now they attack to strike and cause damage, to destabilise the country and the public mood.


Prepare yourself. Winter is coming - and this time this is no quote from a TV series, but a real threat. If things go badly this winter, things really could become extremely nasty over here. Thanks to El Nina, they predict this winter to be unusually cold. Lets hope they are wrong. But El Nina is known to do this to Europe: colder than usual winters. And then, the Russians.

[ET2SN]

Continuing with the thought experiment- You and your group of survivors are trekking through the woods to find some civilization. You come to a clearing in the woods and find a cow chewing on grass. You're all hungry. There is also no such thing as a "right" answer.

Which is better? Steaks sizzling over the fire pit or a self-sustaining source of milk and high quality fertilizer? :hmmm:

[Skybird]

It depends on whether one plans to stay i n that place and make a home there, or move on. Also, a cow produces milk only when she calves/ is being pregnant/has a calf, and every pregnancy sooner or later comes to a natural end. Or to be preicse: a cow produces milk for the calf she has, even during the follow-on pregnancy. No calf - no milk anymore .

Finally it depends on whether you are a vegan, a vegetarian, or a monster. :shucks:

[August]

Continuing with the thought experiment- You and your group of survivors are trekking through the woods to find some civilization. You come to a clearing in the woods and find a cow chewing on grass. You're all hungry. There is also no such thing as a "right" answer.

Which is better? Steaks sizzling over the fire pit or a self-sustaining source of milk and high quality fertilizer? :hmmm:


If you're gonna steal someones cow then you might as well kill and eat it then move on before he comes to retrieve his property or you might get hurt.

[ET2SN]

So, a quick update to the Zippo insert test. I filled mine in early September, stuck the lighter on the shelf, and left it alone. Six weeks later I tested it and the tank had gone dry. :doh: I think a regular Zippo will hold fuel longer than the flipping insert. :Kaleun_Mad:

Don't bother with this "upgrade". :06:

Oh, for the "cow scenario" Option Charlie (do nothing and keep walking) is always in effect. The problem is that you're in a group and you're all hungry. Not everyone is going to see it the same way. :03:

Like I said, there's no "right" answer. Just try to figure out all the angles.


One of the items you always want for a bail-out bag or kit is a dependable source for making a fire. :up:

Probably the best tool for this job is a standard Zippo lighter with the original wet tank and flint insert. These "wet" type lighters will run on anything from lighter fuel to gasoline and even diesel fuel in a pinch. They are basically indestructible and simple to operate and also don't require a lot of room (you can easily pack two lighters, just in case). :yeah:

The only real downside to the basic Zippo is that they will leak fuel in the case of long-term storage.

Here's a cool video I found. Pay attention to the Number 2 and Number 1 inserts. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnjAKstyClU

These "Zorro" inserts have nifty shields for the bottom of the fuel tank and the wick. :yeah: This will make your lighter(s) a lot more leak and evaporation proof. BTW, make sure to store some extra flints under the fill cap. :yep:

[Rockstar]

So, a quick update to the Zippo insert test. I filled mine in early September, stuck the lighter on the shelf, and left it alone. Six weeks later I tested it and the tank had gone dry. :doh: I think a regular Zippo will hold fuel longer than the flipping insert. :Kaleun_Mad:

Don't bother with this "upgrade". :06:

Oh, for the "cow scenario" Option Charlie (do nothing and keep walking) is always in effect. The problem is that you're in a group and you're all hungry. Not everyone is going to see it the same way. :03:

Like I said, there's no "right" answer. Just try to figure out all the angles.

Option Charlie seems like the wrong approach I don’t believe anyone in the group would agree doing it that way.

[August]

Well whichever choice one makes one had better be prepared to defend it. Cows have owners who may not take kindly to the appropriation of such valuable property. Turning a cow into delicious steaks requires a fire, pretty much immediately after slaughter as there won't be any refrigeration to keep it from rotting and managing to put it on a leash and leading it away is going to leave a fairly easy trail to follow.

[mapuc]

More on this group of survives and leadership.

Democracy is no more some may say after a major disaster or collapse of our society.

I say it's still there and should be used in this surviving group. Furthermore I would use the best knowledge each and one of them may have..

One is an old farmer-S/he can be used for farming works and will be the boss in this area(We will all help, but it's up this boss to decide what to do)
One could be an electrician-It gives itself what her or his job would be.
One may be a mechanic.

A.s.o.

Make everyone in this group count make them feel important for the others. Let everyone know that no one is better than the others.

But that's how I see it...I know it you going to tell me I'm thinking wrong.

Markus

[ET2SN]

But that's how I see it...I know it you going to tell me I'm thinking wrong.

Markus

Markus, its a thought experiment. I mentioned a couple of times that there's no "right" answer.

:Kaleun_Cheers:

For what its worth, I see the little old lady who grew up on a farm as the best candidate to be the group's over-all leader. She (probably) has the experience to know when (and where) to plant crops and how to live off the land in general. Once the group transitions from "day to day" and gets into long-term survival, she will become a lot more important. It will be up to the rest of the group to learn from her.

One thing we need to consider is first aid and medicine. I'm not sure if its better to have one or two members of the group become specialists or to make sure everyone gets the same training. :hmmm: Having a first aid book is important but its also really important to have hand's on knowledge and experience.

"It says here to palpate their what???? What does this palpate thing look like?" :doh:


...and you thought the "cow scenario" was tough. :O:

One more thing to consider. What the heck happened, anyway? Why are we all looking for plants and roots to eat? Where did the electricity go? Are we dealing with nuclear fallout or chem/bio warfare? Why is everyone dropping like flies? Figuring that one out is important. :yep: How are you going to do it?

[em2nought]

So, a quick update to the Zippo insert test. I filled mine in early September, stuck the lighter on the shelf, and left it alone. Six weeks later I tested it and the tank had gone dry.


Certainly makes one wonder about indoor air quality. :hmmm:

[Rockstar]

I have the right answer and I think yours was wrong

[Shady Bill]

On the thought experiment;

As long as you are part of a group, in a post-apocalyptic setting, you are in danger. Your fellow humans pose the greatest threat. Greater than any other threat.

I would find some amanita phalloides, poison our water source and wait.
Acute jaundice, followed by seizures, coma and death.

Once my group was dead I would start a new life with the cow.

[Shady Bill]

Thank you all for responding.

I am not building up stocks in my place of residence. You are correct, stocking up at home, even if you live in a sparsely populated area, is no good.

We have some land that has been in my family for a long time. We use to use it for trapping beaver and hunting small game and deer. We had family gatherings, but as family dies off, all that stops sadly. And young people don't care for cabins with no power, running water or internet access.

The nice thing about it is that it is 1) within a few miles of several large abandoned copper mines 2) within several miles of waterways that give access to the Atlantic.

The big negative is that it is 200 miles from my place of residence. Hence the "Plan B" bag I always have on the ready. It is purely designed to effectively transport me and my family to the property up north. It contains some cash, silver bouillon, guns, ammo and food. It holds our passports and other papers that most likely will no longer be useful.

It also holds electronics, hand-held radios, a police scanner. Arduino kits, batteries, first aid and some emergency manuals and my water purifier.

[Rockstar]

On the thought experiment;

As long as you are part of a group, in a post-apocalyptic setting, you are in danger. Your fellow humans pose the greatest threat. Greater than any other threat.

I would find some amanita phalloides, poison our water source and wait.
Acute jaundice, followed by seizures, coma and death.

Once my group was dead I would start a new life with the cow.

Nope, that can’t be right either

[mapuc]

This experiment is based on ET2SN comment in our "Your Ideal Doomsday Survival Situation/Prepper Thread"

Prolog. A major disaster has killed millions of people around the world.
In a little suburban town only a few has survived the first 3 days and they are 6 in numbers

You are one of them.

Start test:

The situation is as follow-No water, no electricity and no electronic, food well here's the
Problem it's enough canned food for 6 month IF one of these 6 survivor leaves the group.
Which mean they would have enough until late spring the following year. Otherwise they would only
have enough to beginning of March.

Lets concentrate on these 6 adult survivors

1. You.(With the education or skills you have, would it benefit this group ?)
2. Person number 2. Female Educated nurse and she is 35 years old.
3. Person number 3. Male Educated painter 55 years old.
4. Person number 4. Male Educated Woodworker 29 years old
5. Person number 5. Female Educated veterian 40 years old
6. Person number 6. Female Educated-None she is 25 years old but are retarded with a mind of a 10 years
old person-She is being taken care of by person number 2, the 35 years old nurse.

So here is the unwanted question-Test if you want.

Which one of these 6 shall leave the group ???

To use ET2SN own word-There's no right or wrong in the text/experiment.

A REMINDER..some may write something you may dislike...count to hundred or ignore this person.

To Jim-Feel free to remove this thread if it goes out of control.

Let the discussion begin.

I as I am as a person would leave..I would try to find a place to live where there's food and water. but that's me. I'm an educated Electrician and have even skills in woodworking.

Markus

[Shady Bill]

3. Person number 3. Male Educated painter 55 years old.

6. Person number 6. Female Educated-None she is 25 years old but are retarded with a mind of a 10 years old person-She is being taken care of by person number 2, the 35 years old nurse.

So here is the unwanted question-Test if you want.

Which one of these 6 shall leave the group ???



I am actually very big on the Arts. I think without the Arts we would be savages. That having been said, #3 will be dead before nightfall.

The whole thought experiment took a twisted turn with number 6. I will say, I considered killing off the girl, since she clearly will slow us down. But then we will have become monsters, and there is no more need for us to survive.

Yea...I would kill the artist.

Wait..do we send them away or do they have to be killed?


p.s. if you mean by "painter" someone who does walls and such. Still go with number 3.

[mapuc]

Wait..do we send them away or do they have to be killed?

We send them away or kick them out of the group and let them go into unknown certainty. We aren't not that much inhuman.

Yes painting wall etc.

Markus

[Shady Bill]

Yea, makes sense.

Still bachelor #3 though. He would have decent chance of surviving on his own. Not sure if painting is a highly usable skill in a survival setting.

[Skybird]

Drawing lots or murdeirng soembody for an ending 6 months away?

There were planes crashing in desolate places where survivors ended up eating the dead to survive. Grim, but true stories. But they did not make that decision several weeks ahead, but at the most desperate and last moment.

I fear your setup for your mindgame is a too unrealistic as if it would make sense to me.

[Jimbuna]

Threads merged.

[mapuc]

Let me reveal something for you.

It started when I read ET2SN first comment about this group and who should be the group leader...When reading it something happened in the backside of my brain...Deja Vú maybe..
Until today some hours ago I suddenly remember it.

We have to go back to the middle of the 90s I was Taking a extra education on my electricity education.

The first 4 weeks was most theory and there we had group work and our teacher Gave us a paper.

A psychological experiment.
Here it was 6 on a little island with sharks in the water-no boats what so ever and the wood had to be used for campfire. Even here we had to discuss who should be thrown into the water.

Oh Man did we have a discussion or not.

That's why I wrote this Reminder and asking Jim to remove this thread if it's goes out of control.

I HOPE it wouldn't go so far

[Shady Bill]

Grim, but true stories. But they did not make that decision several weeks ahead, but at the most desperate and last moment.



actually, I was watching a documentary about a plane crash the other day...its the famous one, where they landed in the mountains with lots of snow and ate each other to survive. I found it relatively uninteresting so it didn't really sink in.

anyways, I was amazed how quickly and easily they decided to go the cannibalism route. Before considering other options. I remember looking up from the computer while sipping coffee going;"weird, that decision was easily made."

[Skybird]

I am curious, what has the trianign for becoming and electrician to do with such a psychologcial group play...? To demonstrate group dynamics when electricians decide who should touch the blank contacts with his wet fingers to see whether power is on or off? :D

[mapuc]

I am curious, what has the trianign for becoming and electrician to do with such a psychologcial group play...? To demonstrate group dynamics when electricians decide who should touch the blank contacts with his wet fingers to see whether power is on or off? :D

During these 4 weeks of theory we had 3 of those type of test.

After number 2. I asked our teacher Torgny what the purpose was behind these test-Cause the only thing they produce is heavily discussion.

Here is what he answered me
(From Memory)
These test there will be three in all are to learn how to work in groups become "Glued" to your group.

When I left for home I could not help thinking-Aha me as an individual shall make room for the group, I shall think and act as part of this group.

Oh by the way we were divided into two groups. Can't remember if we were same number in each of these two groups.

Markus

[Skybird]

These test there will be three in all are to learn how to work in groups become "Glued" to your group.


I see. But after this group-spirit-forging I must ask this old joke now: how many electricians does it take in Denmark to change a light bulb? :D



No answer needed. Which is almost a follow-on joke. :haha:

[Gilbou]

I think the best place is to stay at home.
Water, food, chemical toilet. If outside a big city, nature would help for a few of those things. In a big city, being top most of a building is essential is gathering rain water to be filtered. You can even grow stuff on a roof.


Discretion is key. Being silent, invisible. Not using anything that makes noise. Bow or crossbow. No gun of any sort. If need to move, never during day. First step in being a target is being visible. Invisible to danger, and those that are also trying to go around danger. Think "Dark Forest".


Not being alone might help. Because alone, any disease or wound can go wrong quickly. Problem is the other people. Very, very few people are trained and disciplined to be able to be silent, quiet and "cold" when it comes to making decisions for survival at all cost.


This means you must be willing to eliminate people around you, quickly, if they pose a survival danger to the group. Eliminating people from your very own group.

[Shady Bill]

Trapping animals is a much more efficient and easy way to get animal protein than active hunting. You set your traps, you go to bed, next day you check traps and eat. That simple. I used to make gloves and hats from beaver skins. Absolutely wonderful work and hobby. Scrapping the skin, stretching the fur pelts over downed trees and salt them and let them dry in the sun.

Nothing insulates like beaver belts. Also traps, if taken care of and oiled will last 50+ years. Good quality traps, not garbage ones.

I think it is interesting how different a "post-apocalyptic" event would unfold depending on where you live. What weapons people are allowed to own, based on their governments etc. A post apocalyptic Europe would be very different from a post apocalyptic America or any other place in the world. Each place having different hardships and circumstances.


I would be thinking more "post-apocalyptic" in the sense that there would be no more power, no internet, no global or local communications outside analog radio, no more satellite services, no more local governance etc.

More so than like a post-nuclear world.

[Eichhörnchen]

^ Yes this thread caught my eye the other day but I haven't got around to back-reading it properly yet. However, Bill makes the very good point - so often missed by US cousins - that it would be so different for us lot in Europe: you guys have this 'frontier history' and all the rich knowledge that comes down to you from it

Me, well all I can think I'd do is hole up in one of the many concrete 'pill boxes' still common around here - often along rivers so I'd be able to get my protein easily from fishing. And in the corner would be my AK-47 (my weapon of choice) but failing that a Lee Enfield .303 No4, with which I was once a marksman

[Shady Bill]

^
Me, well all I can think I'd do is hole up in one of the many concrete 'pill boxes' still common around here - often along rivers so I'd be able to get my protein easily from fishing. And in the corner would be my AK-47 (my weapon of choice) but failing that a Lee Enfield .303 No4, with which I was once a marksman

Yea I often have thought about that. I don't think I'd survive well in that sort of setting. I was in the Marine Corps in the 90s and was part of Operation Urban Warrior, after the whole mess in Somalia, they felt we needed more extensive training in "city block to city block" warfare. They even built a makeshift town for us to train in. Urban warfare gets messy quick.

The .303 is a wonderful cartridge. Excellent choice for marksmanship. I used to be mostly a fan of the .338 when I resided in moose country, but as I got older I stepped down to the .308 which is more in line with deer.

I also have a .22 for small game and I have my shotguns for rabbit and home defense.

[Shady Bill]

And in the corner would be my AK-47 (my weapon of choice)

I actually never shot one of those. Always wanted to I will admit.

Craziest thing I shot was the M47 "Dragon", what we called it. Having to drag that pos around the field was hilarious.

[Eichhörnchen]

As Army Cadets we used the .22 'cadet rifle' on indoor ranges only - 303 for outdoors (I absolutely loved our weekends at the Army ranges in Sittingbourne, Shoreham etc)

As for the AK it always seems to me to present an automatic weapon with decent single-shot accuracy. The FN FAL self-loading rifle we used, on the other hand, was not liked by target-shooters who always would choose the Lee Enfield

[ET2SN]

I actually never shot one of those. Always wanted to I will admit.

Craziest thing I shot was the M47 "Dragon", what we called it. Having to drag that pos around the field was hilarious.

It almost sounds like you're in Maine. :D

My old stomping grounds were in Aroostook county.
I had an unofficial "older brother" who was a Game Warden and I used help out when he had to dynamite culverts that the beaver dammed up.

If you're young and dumb, dynamite is a lot of fun. :Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:

This was back when the budgets weren't so hot and a lot of those sticks were well-past their "use by" date. You couldn't help but get Nitro on your fingers and we would (carefully) flick it at the ground where it would "fizzle".


:Kaleun_Cheers:

[mapuc]

I would be thinking more "post-apocalyptic" in the sense that there would be no more power, no internet, no global or local communications outside analog radio, no more satellite services, no more local governance etc.

More so than like a post-nuclear world.

I don't know how the rules for a breakdown of society is in USA. Here the Government has made some laws which says that Electricity, Water and electronic must under any circumstances work. This is for the authorities and other important institute. Hospital, care homes, school a.s.o.

When people mention things like a post-apocalyptic where there's no electricity, no water, no electronic a.s.o

Indicate for me that either my area of the planet has been hit by some major solar eruption or nukes has been used.

Markus

[Shady Bill]

out when he had to dynamite culverts that the beaver dammed up.


:haha: I remember doing that in the past. We would have a terrible time with beavers causing flooding when I was young. So I started trapping them.

My friend would get half sticks of dynamite and we would just blast these dams. Yea dynamite hunting is real effective. I think the crazy guy might just have bought a ton of M-80 fireworks from Mexico. He would tie those together in long strings and just blow up stuff in the woods. Crazy kids..

I am a strong proponent of alcohol's medicinal properties, but I learned early on in life that you never drink and drive, and you never set beaver traps with a couple of beers in you. People think beavers slowly die in traps, and that it is inhumane....its instant death, those things can take your leg off instantly.

[August]

I don't know how the rules for a breakdown of society is in USA. Here the Government has made some laws which says that Electricity, Water and electronic must under any circumstances work. This is for the authorities and other important institute. Hospital, care homes, school a.s.o.


I must be missing something in translation Markus because what good are government laws if society has broken down? That's like ordering Flight Attendants to keep a fully stocked beverage cart on a plane that has already crashed into a mountain.

[mapuc]

I must be missing something in translation Markus because what good are government laws if society has broken down? That's like ordering Flight Attendants to keep a fully stocked beverage cart on a plane that has already crashed into a mountain.

You are so right Dave.

I toke it from what I heard in an issue some weeks ago. Where the reporter said that the government had made some "in-case-of-laws" and he said that things like electricity, water a.s.o should be working despite collapse/shortage on electricity.

I guess you right and I....must have heard something wrong.

Markus

[August]

You are so right Dave.

I toke it from what I heard in an issue some weeks ago. Where the reporter said that the government had made some "in-case-of-laws" and he said that things like electricity, water a.s.o should be working despite collapse/shortage on electricity.

I guess you right and I....must have heard something wrong.

Markus




Maybe but who can tell these days? Some folks put great faith in laws and regulations. :)

[Skybird]

Its the darker half of the year again, and that means I have my Baby Specials (yes, plural) more in use again, for I just love the warm cozy and still surprisingly bright light they make.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNaHK8cufNo

This is as proven a design as it can get, there must be reasons why the design has not been changed and even the manfucturing method has not been changed since 125 years.

One tank filling is 330ml maximum, I recommend to measure only 300ml separately and then fill it into an emptyd lamp, because the thing leaks if you overfill it, and petroleum is extremely difficult to see in the tank, you canot judge how high the liquid level stands (water you see easier). The flame should stand still, should not flicker, because then it overconsumes , and also consumes the wick, and quite quickly. Cold and warm air stream s in side the lamp are part of their design, and why they burn brighter than candle flames, if the flam eflicker,s the physical system inside this is not balanced, burn sub-optimal: reduced brightness, more gas building and more smell and wick consummation can be the result. Manage the flame height correctly, temps will be optimal then, air will cirulate as wnasted by design, and all is good, and the wick will live for years. One filling should last 20 hours, and longer.

Use good, highly cleaned petroleum, then it does not smell at all. Buy cheap stinky petroleum, and you will regret it if using it inside. You can use petroleum lights inside (like you can use petroleum ovens as well, of course you can...) , our forefathers did that for generations, mind you, just act a bit sensible and reasonable and occasionally make sure that some frehs air can get in. Modern man and modern laws are simply so anxious of just everything that that it borders neurotism. If you want, you can use a CO and a CO2 detector.

Preferred light choice for prepper'S ambitions. One bottle of 1l petroleum gives you light for 60-70 hours - power and solar independent.

If you ever had stinky petroleum in use, not only wash out the lamp tank as best as you can, but also change the wick. The stink never goes away from the wick, you cannot wash it out by using clean petroleum.

Ever again people complain their lamps would leak. The manfucaturer says they have 30-40 leaky lamps in 100,000 produced. The leak is in fact most often from mishandling the lamp. Either too much petroleum was filled in, or after shutting it down, people let the wick show up, or just blow it out. Thats is not what you do. Do not blow it out, it consumes the wick, but turn the little key so that the wick sinks into the sink, until the flame dies. Then leave the wick inside the capsule, so that it does not reach out. If the wick shows, capillar effect will soak petroleum from the tank to the top of the wick , which then gets wet, and then starts to drip - and then you have the "leak".

The flames will stay stable and will not flicker if you adjust wick height to have the flame between 1 and 2 cm. More it should not be, and must not be. You can increase it more, yes, and if you never saw a cold air petroleum lamp burning you might be surprised how bright it can become, but the flame will flicker then and the wick will be consumed fast.

I have one in red, and one in anthrazit/cast iron look. I love these lamps since my childhood. Nothing beats the light from open fire.

[Skybird]

Placed an order for a high quality short wave receiver ("world receiver"). While i have two dynamo/solar-charged radios for emergency, They lack quality to be useful ove rreal long distances and shortwave. Why this might be relevant? Becasue if the government does not want the population to know certain things and certain info not being broadcasted, it might just shut down radio stations or have them sending propaganda, and then it might be useful if you can access radio from several thousand kilometers away: from other countries, maybe even other continents.

I opted for this, I already have their survival radio and am quite impressed with the feature, performance and build quality of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99of4zQIbC8

He reaches almost 10500 kilometers out (with an external fixed antenna) !

The survival radio I mentioned, I absolutely recommend this model, at least to have one such radio in your household, no matter whcih model). The only difference is the one I have looks like in the video, but has an additional digital FM receiver (DAB).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cEA_fICFZk


They are moving more and more to digital radio, so the DAB feature makes sense: but only as long as the local media infrastructure still can maintain digital raido in case of a real emergency. Then it might be useful if you can reach long range and to other countries or continents, even if that needs you to run short wave/non-digital. I am living under the roof, and via cable connection from my balcony can wire the whole roof truss and turn it into an antenna, if need be. :D



Heck, I hope I do not mix up short and long wave here, I know not much about this stuff. :D

[Skybird]

You fight like you have trained. You live like you have prepped. Practice beats theory!

https://www-focus-de.translate.goog/finanzen/wildnis-experte-zu-drohendem-blackout-ich-werde-mit-meiner-familie-den-ernstfall-simulieren_id_179680298.html?_x_tr_sl=de&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

[Skybird]

Amazing what a difference some meters of copper wire can do. The radio has arrived and I tested it during last night, and this evening again. I used the included 7m wire antenna for SW, also played around with a separate 5m cable I still had left from I don'T know when, attached it to the radio'S telescope antenna (which is 1m or so...). I was surprised what difference that made to the telescope antenna alone. What difference it made to use the wire not inside but outside the appartment, on the balcony, around 7m above ground. An no,no wall of steel concrete betweee my flat and balcony, only wood and glas.

German transmitters on SW and MW are all dead and gone, it seems. MW saw plenty of British stations, speaking English with unmistakable British accents. Many such stations, the band is almost crowded with them. :) A few French and exotic languages as well. Almost in FM quality came a monster transmitter from Spain, listed in my - improvised - list with 2000MW energy. Wasting energy has a charme of its own. :D

Mostly silence (white noise) on LW band, but a few things I caught up. Two English stations that did religous programs and spoke with strong American accents (I beleive I also caught one of such programs in MW, but I am not certain, the signal was not good). A Japanese-French program, apparently a radio-language course, so I cannot say whether it came from Japan, or France. One or two Spanish language things, two or three exotic languages, and one other that I clearly identified as native Japanese; then, no surprise, : a Chinese, and another Asian language station, that maybe was Korean, but I can reliably only say it was neither Chinese nor Japanese.


Only very few of these statioosn however wopuld be of use in case of emergency: being strogn enough in signla and being in English so that I could actually understand them. In case of huge desasters however it might be possible that some classic stations get reactivated for emergency duty, if the hardware was not destroyed.


Disconnecting the wire atennas, and most of all this immediately disappears in white noise. And over day it is more difficult to receive.

Well, first lessons for the total radio newbie that I am. And no, it will not become a new hobby, most likely not. Just wanted to say that the machine I bought really makes a HUGE difference to ordinary normal radios.

If you have any tips to improve receiving, and that do not include complicated additional electronics and constructions, but relate to how to improvise best with simple wire antennas, let me know, please.

I read that BBC had reactivated two programs for Ukraine due to the war one in the 19m band at 15735KHz from 16-18H, and the other in the 49m band at 5875KHz, broadcasting from 22-00H, but I find nothign in that frequency ran ge. Are they already switched off again? I would have expected to be able to catch them, with Germany sitting between the UK and the Ukraine.



I also read that MW still seems to be very common in the US, but most of them will not make it over the pond, I assume, are just reigonal small stations with too low power output. And in Britain MW also still seems to be alive, obviously. Man, over here they seem to own the MW band...


In Germany, FM was planned to be dead by now, replaced first with DAB a decade ago, which was a dud, and then DAB+, which works decently, but the technical execution and the demand of radio listeners made them giving new licenses until at least 2032 or 2034, DAB+ still are not selling too well. MW however is dead, so is LW, all german transmitters are switched off, often already are destroyed. In case of emergency, our dependency on internet communication and digital radio (short range) can badly backfire. I will never understand how one can be so stupid to have given up the telephone cable network just for VoIP, and even give up Deutschlandfunk on LW and MW. Redundancy is a foreign word for bureaucrats and bean counters. And not one German radio transmitter capable to cover all Germany...? Only short ranged FM (UKW) regional transmitters and DAB+?

If I am wrong, point me to it, please. As I said, I am a total noob (though with physics classes at school...) regarding radios, absolutely possible that I miss something.

[Catfish]

SW Short wave is the way to go in case of emergency.
You need a long antenna, outside, but you already got that.
And FM (frequency modulation) is still present in Germany, all the bigger broadcasters are still active, from NDR to DLF; and Radio21 :D
You cannot rely on DAB/DAB+ or the internet, if all really goes wrong. Or you need a satellite system, but this is too expensive and probably not portable.
I have an older Sony radio for use during sailing, it is good enough, but needs AAA batteries. You cannot have enough of those in case of an emergency, but you also cannot store them forever.
An older good Radio with an elongated/prolonged(?) antenna and enough batteries is better than the new small emergency ones.
If you use Panasonic 'eneloop' rechargeable AAA accumulators they will last for 2+ years without reloading – if it does not get too cold. Reloading them via solar panels works like a charm.
Do not use metal-hydrid ones, they have a good high energy output but do not last long withour reloading. Speaking about three months storing time (without use) or so when new. Experience with those was not well.

[Skybird]

Thanks. I still have a Sony ICF-SW12. Its good if you clip a wire to the telescope antenna, also it is small, the Sangean is quite big, you do not pack that in your Rucksack. But the new Sangean beats it hands down. Well, it costed 2.5 times as much, so... Also, the Sony has only UKW, SW, MW, no LW and no AIR like the Sangean.

A tip for batteries, if longevity and performance even in low temperatures are a concern: Energizer Lithium. Beats hands down everything in AAA and AA batteries I ever have used, but are more expensive. I use them in the squqirrel cam outside, and especially in winter they make a very huge difference to normal good batteries. They last longer, in summer I would estimate 1.5 times longer, in winter with temps around 5 to -2°: even 2-3 times longer than normal batteries. And their shelf lives is counted not in years but decades.

As a sailor and on high sea, you may want to consider them as an iron reserve. I occasionally read tests about them, with more in detail descriptions of their characteristics, they not only beat normal Alkaline batteries, but also Lithium batteries of other producers.

I buy them in bigger numbers at Amazon, but even at Amazon they are currently more expensive than usual. I recommend to be selective what to use them for. Currently you can get offers of around 2,10 per AA, in better times last year I often got them for 1,20 per AA. For my wildlife cam they are ideal.

On antennas, it seems that in SW you best use long wire antennas, but in MW and LW you seem to need T-arays and loop antennas which if you transmit yourself even need to be tailored to the frequency you intend to use. I am not into all that. I will look in my cellar and find some old T-wire antenna that I still must have somewhere, and see what it will do. I also read about frame antennas. But I admit I did not really memorize or understand all what all the talk was about. For my purpose I intend to keep it simple: emergency, short wave, thrown wire antenna, period. That I get plenty of British MW stations, mostly BBC apparently (I have no clue how radio is organised in the UK but I often listen to Smooth Radio London on internet), is a bonus. If Germany all turns into a burning crater after the moon fell down , its good to have them there, calm and unexcited. :D

[Skybird]

I tested again, with a loudspeaker wire I found (edit: to be precise: a double litz wire/stranded wire in transparent PVC coating), a length of around 7m. I split the two wires and attached the loose ends, winning around 14m in total length, then attached the 7m thin wire that came with the radio, that way, having over 20m in the end.

I spun this in a double-S pattern (I mean an S with additional U-turn: forth and back and forth and back and forth) across my loggia/balcony, over an area of approx. 4.5m x 1.3m, then used the remaining cable length to get it inside. Then I tried it all out during night, around 1-2 a.m. LOC, simply clipped to the telescope antenna of the radio.

Wowh, that was a headjump into another world. The number of stations I receive this way has multiplied by several factors, and on MW many of them, from the UK, are surprisingly clear. On shortwave I got plenty of stuff too, mostly from Asia, two news programs identified themselves as something from Canada, it seems a few foreign language European stations, some American ones: half of them bible stuff. Only a few signals on LW, however. FM was as crispy as if it were DAB+. I did not try different antenna designs like frame or loop antennas, just the simply linear wire spun like described above. And: higher is better.

It really makes a huge difference to increase the wire length. Do it, even if you think those some meters you already have hanging outside were already much. It never is enough! :D Also, the stuff must be outside, not inside the house.

Its good to have many such programs in English from far away. Receiving Asian programs is nice for the stats and scores, but it would not help me at all if I could not understand them...


So add to your prepper list: not just a short and medium wave radio, but also 20m of suitable wire (I read there is nothign wrong to have the wire up to 70m long if you are in for short wave. Note that some other wave bands seem to prefer or even command certain antenna geometry and precise wire lengths for specific frequencies being taken into account: every frequency needing another antenna length.).

[August]

Antennas should be cut to a half or quarter wave length of the radio frequency range that one wants to pick up. Blindly increasing the length might work, or it might not.

The composition of the ground below also factors in as does antenna height.

Learn more here:

https://www.radioworld.com/industry/antenna-basics

[Catfish]

^ yep, thanks!

[...]
A tip for batteries, if longevity and performance even in low temperatures are a concern: Energizer Lithium. Beats hands down everything in AAA and AA batteries I ever have used, but are more expensive. I use them in the squqirrel cam outside, and especially in winter they make a very huge difference to normal good batteries. They last longer, in summer I would estimate 1.5 times longer, in winter with temps around 5 to -2°: even 2-3 times longer than normal batteries. And their shelf lives is counted not in years but decades. [..]
You speaking of batteries, not accumulators?
I take it you mean batteries like these: (?)
https://www.akkuline.de/test/energizer-l91-lithium-aa-test-messung

Meanwhile also bought a 'Feuerhand' baby petroleum lamp (had a cheaper chinese one that leaked and now finally ditched that)

Waiting for a new wood stove, living 'in the woods' there is no shortage of burning material so it looks like the obvious choice.
The existing older stove is not longer allowed in Germany due to environment regulations. I told the chimney sweeper to stuff it before we freeze. New one ordered in july '22, estimated delivery now february '23.
Early enough to use it in summer :wah:

[Skybird]

You speaking of batteries, not accumulators?
I take it you mean batteries like these: (?)
https://www.akkuline.de/test/energizer-l91-lithium-aa-test-messung
Yes to both. These are hands down the best batteries I ever have come across. Currently quite expensive, however. As I said: one better is selective regarding their use. For many purposes they are not needed, are overkill.
There are lithium accumulators in AA and AAA format as well, since a few years. Higher capacity than Eneloops, but lifespan is questionable with many models, it seems.



Meanwhile also bought a 'Feuerhand' baby petroleum Congrats, I just love these.

Leaking: Most cases of leaking Feuerhands is due to overfilling them, or leaving the wick too far out when the lamp is dark. Read here:

https://www.petroleumlaterne.com/de/info/Dichtigkeit-Tank-Feuerhand.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tOLPwwv7D8&t=393s

Fascinating how simple these things are built, and yet superior to an open-burning petroleum lamp (full-glass table lamps, for example): a correctly adjusted Feuerhand hand does not soot, does not consume the wick, burns with an absolutely calm flame no matter the wind, normal other open petroleum lamps soot very much.
Since I measure the petroleum separately when filling and empty the tank beforehand, I no longer have any problems with creeping petroleum smear on the lamp.

[Skybird]

Noch 'ne Feuerhand! ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKj65dl6Tvw


Proven: Feuerhands are unkaputtbar!

[Catfish]

man kriegt alles wieder hin :03:


Meanhile i saw this .. be prepared :D
The REAL zombie apocalypse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhkMBl4AqHM

[Skybird]

Completely escaped my radar so far, but that has changed: if still looking for light sources, consider this economic as well as efficient solution! They are brighter than I expected, though I should have been warned from my high quality LED torchlights.

Combine a powerbank with small LED lamps that are plugged into the USB port. 20-25 Euros, and you have light for weeks with one charge.

I just tested it with a new 10,000 mAh powerbank and a tiny warm-white LED light that was as bright as several candles or two petroleum lamps at medium flame - and that LED-powerbank combo burnt for almost precisely four days and four nights, in the end it were 94 hours, without break.

I got two such powerbanks, 10K mAh, of good quality, in an Amazon sale for 17 Euros. Do not forget that you can get such powerb banks with 20,000 and even 28,000 mAh for 25-30 Euros already.

I bought twenty small lamps like these - for a total of 7 Euros.




https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51b5YVU64+L._AC_SL1000_.jpg


Or use these (even brighter, but drawing some more power):


https://testie.de/wp-content/uploads/USB-Lampe-1-8fach-gesamt.jpg
The yget hot, and come in two colours, cold-.white and warm white. The warm white are really very, very good. And bright. With two of these popinted at the ceiling, my living room, 25 sqm, is fully lit.

And then these, which really replace ordinary light bulbs' brightness:


https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/619ysGkrLKL._AC_SL1423_.jpg
Practical, economic, enduring, and cost-efficient! :yeah: With a 20K powerbank, the lamp I tested with would have lived longer than one week (short of 8 days), and if you consider you burn it only 6-8 hours a day/night, maybe, then you are into the range of 3-4 weeks - close to one month.

Light quality of these devices differ greatly, mainly between cold blue-ish-white (terrible light these make in living rooms), and warm-white (not like the old halogen light, but better than the cold white LEDs, some offer really good colour quality now). Some really get surprisingly bright. Some stay cool, some get quite hot - since they are cheap, it makes sense to get a reserve of them, a handful, not just two or three. They often even get sold in bigger numbers.


P.S. It makes sense to have a solar accumulator (or a Diesel :) ). And if you have, it makes sense to have several much smaller powerbanks as well. Just to distrubute your light options across more area, more rooms, more places. What I descirbed aboive, is a cheap but well-working solution.


I seriously ask myself what took me this long to get this idea.

[ET2SN]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DANTP2n8x3c

A nice series from Lindy Beige, but this vid also points out some basics for this thread.

:Kaleun_Salute:

-If you want to pack some kit, MAKE SURE you know how to use it. If you're trying to figure out how to remove the packaging so you can find the instruction manual, you're only wasting time. Having a tourniquet in your first aid pack is almost as important as knowing how to use it. :yep:

- Don't bring a bridle and saddle to a dog show. :up: In the case of a bail-out bag, MAKE SURE what you have in it will be useful at some point.
Having a nifty laser-reflector fire starter is useless if you can't find wood to burn. :yep: Having stuff that looks cool is fine, if its only going to take up space it will also weigh you down.
How do you know what is essential and what is dead weight? Practice. :up:

[em2nought]

This rocket kettle looks pretty useful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tet2xF6OkUA

[ET2SN]

https://www.amazon.com/Witty-Dehydrated-Essential-Hilarious-Practical/dp/B072L38SGT/ref=pd_rhf_d_dp_s_gcx_gw_content_gifting_asins_rhf _sccl_2_1/135-0627951-3320044?pd_rd_w=T62AL&content-id=amzn1.sym.9d326a7e-16a1-4d63-ae88-7519e488dbdd&pf_rd_p=9d326a7e-16a1-4d63-ae88-7519e488dbdd&pf_rd_r=RVAAXGXE63PT68Z0A5TK&pd_rd_wg=Hsc9f&pd_rd_r=4a7d3a6a-fed0-4d3e-b187-cd88c269becc&pd_rd_i=B072L38SGT&psc=1


Why didn't I think this one up? :Kaleun_Mad:

[Skybird]

This rocket kettle looks pretty useful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tet2xF6OkUA
O look, the rocket stove met a water bath cooker and they had a baby together!

[Skybird]

https://www.amazon.com/Witty-Dehydrated-Essential-Hilarious-Practical/dp/B072L38SGT/ref=pd_rhf_d_dp_s_gcx_gw_content_gifting_asins_rhf _sccl_2_1/135-0627951-3320044?pd_rd_w=T62AL&content-id=amzn1.sym.9d326a7e-16a1-4d63-ae88-7519e488dbdd&pf_rd_p=9d326a7e-16a1-4d63-ae88-7519e488dbdd&pf_rd_r=RVAAXGXE63PT68Z0A5TK&pd_rd_wg=Hsc9f&pd_rd_r=4a7d3a6a-fed0-4d3e-b187-cd88c269becc&pd_rd_i=B072L38SGT&psc=1




:D :haha: :har:

[ET2SN]

:D :haha: :har:

https://www.amazon.com/Prank-Pack-First-Fire-Prank/dp/B0757WW6KB/ref=pd_rhf_d_ee_s_bmx_s1_sccl_2_2/135-0627951-3320044?pd_rd_w=3rbJY&content-id=amzn1.sym.db645f48-24ac-47d5-9ad9-6149c07c1f0a&pf_rd_p=db645f48-24ac-47d5-9ad9-6149c07c1f0a&pf_rd_r=YG8Z1XVVSBDB6BE3QN52&pd_rd_wg=NVsev&pd_rd_r=f34812fb-6c10-4b2b-9026-363cde439883&pd_rd_i=B0757WW6KB&th=1



:yeah:

[Skybird]

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91Vn-MaeclL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

[Jimbuna]

^ :haha:

[Skybird]

This rocket kettle looks pretty useful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tet2xF6OkUA

I immediately fell in love with that thing when you showed it, I already have a rocket stove. I got this one, too.

FYI: Brexit does not hinder deliveries from Britain to Germany like in the early Brexit day, from order to delivery only four days passed. Ordered via German Amazon, delivery from and by British company via DPD


Why should I show the thing boiling and cooking, others have done that alraedy. I wanted to quickly show the many options you have with this set that weighs 2.2 kg in total (I got the steel version, there is also aluminium kit). I simply like much clever solution packages. And its much lighter and easier to handle than the rocket stove, you can easier light this one in between to just have some hot water for coffee. But you could cock with this as well, if need be. Brilliant kit! Manufacturing quality feels well in the hands.



The kettle holds 1.6 l max. There are two smaller ones as well, the smallest holds just 0.6 l.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azD021bRHgI

[Skybird]

Four or five years ago I posted on rocket stoves, and my Versa Ecozoom. They are a great prepper item to have. Good stoves are very fuel efficient. Some can also burn coal without making a total mess (the Ecozoom can). All should be able to burn just any biomass, not just wood.

Back then I made even a video on mine, but I was relatively new to filming and made some mistakes, namely that every scene was too long. It should have been just a quarter of the length it had. It was all too long, and thats why I do not link it anymore. Instead this video by another guy, it shows the thing in action. Hieght is 30cm, weight is 6.6 kg. Not for trekking and moving as long as you do not use a van or truck, but for base camps and prepping.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3I_kvF5I_0


Great model, I use exactly this one. Flame stays stable for ver ylong time. I used it half a dozen times over the past 3, 4 years, just for fun. Its great kit.



I use a cast-iron pan on this one and also got a Dutch oven. I do not use coal, it makes too much soot. With wood this burns just very well and is WAY easier and quicker to clean!

[Skybird]

Extremely good illustration and explanation of a not easy technique to make fire with nothing but a knife and wood. In German its callede "fire-drilling". The guy speaks little but then a very good and well-pronounced Austrian German and so Google translates this well into English subtitles, if you activate them.

Best video on this matter I have ever seen. The guy runs an outdoor survival school in Austria.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVINLLkYqWI


I know from own experience that this technique works, but is not easy to aquire. Better you always have flintstone and a sharp-edged steel with you. :) Thats a breeze in comparison.

[ET2SN]

After taking a year off........



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmSUWu37dt4

Steve1989MREinfo is BACK with two new vids. :rock:

Shiek Yerbouty cassette on the shelf, check.
Spoon solo at 9:01, check. :D
"Nice hiss", check. :yeah:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKfWQ3Sij68


:Kaleun_Party:

[Skybird]

I once was told by a German vet that MREs provided to troops are meant to fight the enemy with once weapon ammunition has run out. :D

[ET2SN]

The CCAR prototype ration is interesting in how its processed, but it isn't something you would want to store in the old bunker. :03:

Its formulated to keep you active, being produced for recon and mobile (tank) units. That's great when you need to cover 10-30 miles a day on two hour's sleep. In "hunker down" mode, it just means you'll be wondering why you can't fall asleep.
:k_confused:

[August]

In "hunker down" mode, it just means you'll be wondering why you can't fall asleep.




Or crap. :)

[em2nought]

The last article I read about MREs gave the edge to France. I'm surprised they don't include a small white cloth napkin. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_1zZuc7IaU

[ET2SN]

I've posted about these things several times, here's a better look at what they are:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqdJ_0thbnk

What this guy doesn't mention- they have a ridiculously long shelf life (figure on a couple of years) at room temperature, which makes them really handy for stuff like emergencies and power outages (note the high sodium numbers). They are also pretty freaking cheap, so you can load up the shelves in your kitchen without putting a dent in your finances.

The chili he reviews is my personal go-to. I have a feeling he didn't check the date code because that's about as old as I would trust it. :haha: The normal color is the same as Hormel canned chili. My next favorite is the turkey, stuffing, and gravy. Its great hot, but also edible at room temperature. Perfect for that Thanksgiving you spend in a culvert or basement. :up:

All of these meals are pre-cooked. As long as you have a clean spoon, you have chow whether its hot or cold. That said, I would avoid anything with mashed taters or a white sauce/gravy like its the plague. Its OK at best only if its been microwaved, however it IS edible.

Bon Apatite! :yeah:

[Rockstar]

A lot of processed and or prepackaged foods here. But has anyone ever considered salting and dry aging meat? I’ve just recently gave it a shot and it turns out pretty easy to do and tastes good too.

There is the primitive way doing it with just pure salt.

Or you can try out a few recipes which are little more involved. Either way it’s an easy way to preserve meat.

https://twoguysandacooler.com/calabrian-pork-tenderloin/

This is the book that was recommended to me.

The River Cottage Curing and Smoking Handbook: [A Cookbook] (River Cottage Handbooks) Hardcover – April 14, 2015
by Steven Lamb (Author), Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall (Introduction)

[mapuc]

Following twitter status fits very well here in this thread

https://twitter.com/Iben_Denmark/status/1665460869428281346

Markus

[ET2SN]

Marcus, it all comes down to common freaking sense. :yep:

Having $12,000 of high tech "kit" only means that you won't be able to carry all of it. A collection of buck knives and broad swords are worth "dick".
The same goes for those neat-o high caliber sniper rifles. Just find a light weight single shot .22 rifle (open sites) for taking down small game. :yeah:

Learn when and how to bug out. :yeah: Learn when and how to hunker down.
Learn how to move so all of the other survivors aren't constantly trying to blast you. :doh:

Some basic leadership experience can go a long way. Figure out how to put together a small group of like-minded people so you can maximize your chances. :yeah:

[mapuc]

Marcus, it all comes down to common freaking sense. :yep:

Having $12,000 of high tech "kit" only means that you won't be able to carry all of it. A collection of buck knives and broad swords are worth "dick".
The same goes for those neat-o high caliber sniper rifles. Just find a light weight single shot .22 rifle (open sites) for taking down small game. :yeah:

Learn when and how to bug out. :yeah: Learn when and how to hunker down.
Learn how to move so all of the other survivors aren't constantly trying to blast you. :doh:

Some basic leadership experience can go a long way. Figure out how to put together a small group of like-minded people so you can maximize your chances. :yeah:

I'm from the generation where my Mom learned me how to cook-From scratch so to say and how to bake bread. I also had a Father who learned me how to hold a hammer and a screwdriver in the right hand.

It's easy to buy bread today than bake it myself-Yea I know lazy.

If I shall buy a .22 rifle I need permission from our Local police office.
Only weapon I can buy when above 18 years of age is an air rifle

Markus

[Rockstar]

I'm from the generation where my Mom learned me how to cook-From scratch so to say and how to bake bread. I also had a Father who learned me how to hold a hammer and a screwdriver in the right hand.

It's easy to buy bread today than bake it myself-Yea I know lazy.

If I shall buy a .22 rifle I need permission from our Local police office.
Only weapon I can buy when above 18 years of age is an air rifle

Markus

What about Black Powder? Over here they're not even classified as a 'firearm' and can be purchased and shipped interstate without a license. Pedersoli in Italy produce some fine pieces and I've seen atleast one European Black powder shooting club on Youtube.

[mapuc]

What about Black Powder? Over here they're not even classified as a 'firearm' and can be purchased and shipped interstate without a license. Pedersoli in Italy produce some fine pieces and I've seen atleast one European Black powder shooting club on Youtube.

Ohh that's even more restricted.

Here it is not enough with a permission to handle black powder, you also need a paper on that you have gone a firework master training.

Since the huge firework explosion in 2003 the rules has been harder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4iNOguCNFQ&ab_channel=13PyroFreak

Markus

[Skybird]

I use a slingshot to chase the cats out of the garden when they want to stare at my little furry darlings at the nut bar. The cats hardly come anymore, have had enough of me probably peppering their fails and backs. I absolutely like cats and usually do them no harm, but if they go after my squirrels I know no pardon. At those 18-20m shooting distance from 5 meters high, I am infallible with my slingshot. :D

An apocalyptic zombie is much bigger than a squirrel, he would have no chance. :O:


Real strong slingshots with stabilizers are banned in Germany.

[Rockstar]

Ohh that's even more restricted.

Here it is not enough with a permission to handle black powder, you also need a paper on that you have gone a firework master training.

Since the huge firework explosion in 2003 the rules has been harder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4iNOguCNFQ&ab_channel=13PyroFreak

Markus

Thats too bad they punish you because someone you don't know fooked up. Over here I can get black powder almost as easily as a black powder pistol or rifle. Though when it comes to powder the retailers I've seen set limitations on how much can be purchased. And of course, IMO any suspect amount I'm sure would set me in the sights of law enforcement. During COVID I stocked up five pounds of Shutzen triple-F when things were seemingly scarce. I still have about 3.5 pounds left. I swear I'll never order that much again.

Fireworks on the other hand are even easier to get and are sold in grocery stores next to the beer aisle for those people getting ready for the upcoming 4th of July hootenanny. :D

[em2nought]

I think Skybird's going to like this idea.

Rope made from bottles! :up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSBh77bjz_Q

[Skybird]

Well, first you have to have such a bottle. In Germany, bottles are far from being 100% plastic, we use plenty of glass bottles.

A cranky bird always finds a fly in the ointment. :D :O:

[em2nought]

Well, first you have to have such a bottle. In Germany, bottles are far from being 100% plastic, we use plenty of glass bottles.

A cranky bird always finds a fly in the ointment. :D :O:

You'll just have to bug out across a national border or two. :03:

[ET2SN]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O20mKRHYttg


:hmmm:

[ET2SN]

:D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sljSf7KVlQ


:Kaleun_Salivating:

[ET2SN]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZuEGAsO4CA

Extremely rare..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NRv-DxSxGc

Extremely common back in the "aughts".

:D

[em2nought]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NRv-DxSxGc
:D
This being his favorite dish, I've now lost some respect for General George S. Patton. :03:

Pretty sure I'd be carrying a roll of Scott toilet paper into battle with me if that's all the Army gives you. Sheryl Crow must have given them advice on TP. :har:

[ET2SN]

A blast from the past (and an extended spoon solo). :rock:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0ciBudwIV0

The Vomelet from 2008. :D


:Kaleun_Sick:

[ET2SN]

NO, Steve1989, NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:Kaleun_Sick:

"Defiantly not a nice hiss".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHSjp_JYBcw

You just know he's going to try to eat some of it. :yep:


Plus, a blast from five year's past- Tasting the Boer War.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZoHuMwZwTk

[em2nought]

Boer War ration, just needs some tabasco. :har:

[em2nought]

Speaking of Boer War, I bet the white farmers in South Africa are prepping like hell. I'd be prepping to get "out". I now understand why Elon Musk is in a hurry to get to Mars. Watching a stadium full of people sing "Kill the Boer, kill the farmer" and everybody is ok with that. :o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_tdo71--OY

[ET2SN]

Well, that's one way to nuke this thread. :doh:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9xQTJ-kbUk


:nope:

[em2nought]

Well, that's one way to nuke this thread. :doh:

:nope:

Don't be a drama queen, it won't even be a bang snap. :D

https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/bccac4bb-122c-4bd9-b27c-b36c69162574.736369867979f6be6bc987226f865576.jpeg ?odnHeight=612&odnWidth=612&odnBg=FFFFFF

[Jimbuna]

One of the countries I have never visited nor would ever want to.

[Catfish]

Well, that's one way to nuke this thread. :doh:
[The Atomic Café]
:nope:
We saw this film at school, decades ago in the last millenium. Already old back then, but good film.

And if it happens, do not despair, just duck and cover and don't forget your briefcase against the initial flash :-?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMnKNHNfznE


One of the countries I have never visited nor would ever want to.
What, the US? :k_confused:

[Jimbuna]

What, the US? :k_confused:

South Africa :)