Question about Balao Class and torpedoes

[Red October1984]

Im running TMO and RSDRC....(looks down at my sig..) and I just recieved the USS Balao in the middle of 1942...Is that historical? I had thought that the Balao was introduced in 1943. :hmmm: I had taken the new boat out to see how deep I could dive...I was all fine and dandy until I got to 800 feet. So am I good to 750? Everytime I get a new command, I always try to learn the ins and outs of each class of boat.

When do my torpedoes get fixed? I am sick of these faulty Mk 14s...In the book I am reading, War In The Boats: My WW2 Submarine Battles, the USS Crevalle didnt get orders to remove the magnetic detonator until 1944. :hmm2:

Which are better? The Mk 14 or the Mk 23?

[fireftr18]

Which are better? The Mk 14 or the Mk 23?

That's really kind of a difficult question. :hmmm:
Early war, the Mk14 was riddled with problems. Stock models the problems to a degree, but not nearly at historical levels. TMO models them closer to historical levels, but my experience still not to the true historical level. From what I understand, if they had as much as a 25% success rate with the torpedoes, then they were doing very well. :damn:
The Mk23 was essentially a Mk14 with the problems corrected and the long range removed. When the Mk23 came out, they used them until the Mk14s were repaired, then went back to the Mk14s because of the long range option. I'm not sure of the specific dates. :yeah:
I know someone else here can give better detail. :know:
TMO adds a good description of torpedoes in the appropriate screens.

[magic452]

Red you got another year to go with the duds. :/\\!!:/\\!!:/\\!!

After the five or six careers I just turned duds off.
I like to hear BOOMS not bonks


I stick with the Mk14s, the 23 seems to get more circle runners and I like the slow speed setting for convoys, easier to get near simultaneous hits.

Mid 42 seems a little early for a Balao but I'm no historian.

Magic

[ColonelSandersLite]

The Mk23 was essentially a Mk14 with the problems corrected and the long range removed. When the Mk23 came out, they used them until the Mk14s were repaired, then went back to the Mk14s because of the long range option.


This is completely incorrect. The *only* difference between the mark 14 and the mark 23 was the removal of the speed selection system. This was done to make the torpedo cheaper and easier to manufacture.

This can easilly be verified as far as tmo is concerned by checking values in Torpedoes_US.sim, they are identical with one exception. I noticed that the mark23 has a slightly higher chance of depth keeping problems. This is probably because either the mark 14 or 23 got changed and ducimus forgot to change the other value.

[TorpX]

Im running TMO and RSDRC....(looks down at my sig..) and I just recieved the USS Balao in the middle of 1942...Is that historical? I had thought that the Balao was introduced in 1943. :hmmm: I had taken the new boat out to see how deep I could dive...I was all fine and dandy until I got to 800 feet. So am I good to 750? Everytime I get a new command, I always try to learn the ins and outs of each class of boat.


According to Wiki, the Balao was launched Oct. 27, 1942, and started it's first war patrol on 25 July, 1943. (I know, it's Wikipedia, but this seems about right.)

Either the shipyard really, really likes you, or there is a slight flaw in the game. :)

[Sailor Steve]

(I know, it's Wikipedia, but this seems about right.)
There is absolutely nothing wrong with using Wiki as a quick reference source. It's no less accurate than half the books out there. If you need to make a specific point, then use other sources, two or three if possible, and make sure they aren't just repeating each other; but for the service date of a famous ship? Double-check if you like, but I'll bet ten bucks right now that it's correct.

[troopie]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using Wiki as a quick reference source. It's no less accurate than half the books out there. If you need to make a specific point, then use other sources, two or three if possible, and make sure they aren't just repeating each other; but for the service date of a famous ship? Double-check if you like, but I'll bet ten bucks right now that it's correct.

+1

As a bit of a hobby I've been compiling a spreedsheet comparison of (for now) post Dreadnought battleship classes and I've found Wiki to be by far the most practicle starting point. My cross-referancing has certainly showed up a few errors, mostly in commision dates and (naturally) tonnage, but for the most part it's been fairly reliable:up:

[BigWalleye]

Several independent websites (fleetsubmarine.com, hullnumber.com, uboat.net) show the commissioning date of Balao as 4 Feb 1943. None of them gives any accreditation, though, so it is conceivable that they are all citing the same source and that that source could be incorrect. The only accredited source that my Google search turned up was factualworld.com. Factualworld also gives the commissioning date as 4 Feb 1943, and cites: Friedman, Norman (1995). U.S. Submarines Through 1945: An Illustrated Design History. Annapolis, Maryland (http://www.factualworld.com/article/Annapolis,_Maryland): United States Naval Institute (http://www.factualworld.com/article/United_States_Naval_Institute). pp. 285–304. ISBN 1-55750-263-3 (http://www.factualworld.com/article/Special:BookSources/1557502633). uboat.net, while not directly citing the Friedman book as a source, does list it in a brief (2 books) bibliography. The Friedman book is not available on-line. I presume its source is US Navy records, but can not confirm this from the available on-line material. So, well into the 21st Century, we are still faced with having to consult <gasp> books to get an authentic answer.

[Red October1984]

Either the shipyard really, really likes you, or there is a slight flaw in the game. :)

I knew it was a bit early... The shipyard must love me. I've sank probably 100K in my 7 other patrols.

[Hinrich Schwab]

The Navy's historical page on the Balao indicate February 43 as her commissioning date. http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-b/ss285.htm any earlier is a game flaw.

[captgeo]

following is a link to site found right here in our fourm,sub web sites, found in general disscusion section.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=197714

[aanker]

According to Clay Blair Jr's, "SILENT VICTORY" the first BALAO class patrol was early summer 43.

Happy Hunting!

[Bilge_Rat]

Remember commissioning is not the same as being in combat. When a ship is commissioned, it is formally accepted into the Navy, but this typically occurs stateside, it then has to train its crew and deploy to the combat area. Typically in WW2, you see a delay of 4-6 months between commissioning and the first combat patrol.

[Sailor Steve]

The Friedman book is not available on-line. I presume its source is US Navy records, but can not confirm this from the available on-line material. So, well into the 21st Century, we are still faced with having to consult <gasp> books to get an authentic answer.
Norman Friedman started off teaching physics at the Naval Academy at Annapolis. He always goes for primary sources, and is famous for his books. I have a few of them, but not US Submarines (yet). Though anybody can occasionally make a mistake, I would put his research up against anybody's.

[aanker]

War Patrol reports are *mostly* all online at http://issuu.com on hnsa pages in PDF format. It is possible to do some real detective work which is fun. TS ops can be deduced sometimes.

Happy Hunting!

[BigWalleye]

Thanks, aanker! Your post got my mind working. The HSNA website http://hnsa.org/doc/subreports.htm has digital copies of the original patrol reports for most WW2 submarine patrols. Reports for all 10 patrols of USS Balao (SS-285) are available there. This is a digital image of the original reports, digitized from a microfilm copy and printed in the original typewriter font just as it was typed by the yeoman in the Balao's office. This is as primary a source as anyone could demand. The title page of the first report reads:

U.S.S. BALAO

REPORT OF

FIRST WAR PATROL

From: 25 July 1943 - To: 13 September 1943


Since the historical Balao began its first war patrol on 25 July 1943, and was commissioned and worked up under wartime conditions, it is unlikely that it could have been available more than a few days prior to that date.

[Red October1984]

So it's a game error then...

[aanker]

Thanks, aanker! Your post got my mind working. The HSNA website http://hnsa.org/doc/subreports.htm has digital copies of the original patrol reports for most WW2 submarine patrols. Reports for all 10 patrols of USS Balao (SS-285) are available there. This is a digital image of the original reports, digitized from a microfilm copy and printed in the original typewriter font just as it was typed by the yeoman in the Balao's office. This is as primary a source as anyone could demand. .....
Since the historical Balao began its first war patrol on 25 July 1943, and was commissioned and worked up under wartime conditions, it is unlikely that it could have been available more than a few days prior to that date.
I've enjoyed and used those primary sources a lot. One example was USS TUNA - even the photo copy of the patrol report on hnsa written back at Pearl covered up a secret mission conducted, but given the lat & long, dates prior to, and lat, long, dates after, and nm ranges possible per day, the mission could be reconstructed.

Happy Hunting!

[TorpX]

Im running TMO and RSDRC....(looks down at my sig..) and I just recieved the USS Balao in the middle of 1942...Is that historical?
I should have asked this before, but when you say you "recieved" the USS Balao in '42, do you mean you and the Balao are heading out on your first patrol today, or you and the Balao are starting a period of training?

I was under the impression Duci put something along those lines in his campaign.

[Red October1984]

I should have asked this before, but when you say you "recieved" the USS Balao in '42, do you mean you and the Balao are heading out on your first patrol today, or you and the Balao are starting a period of training?

I was under the impression Duci put something along those lines in his campaign.



I've taken the thing on a war patrol already.

They're putting War Shots in the tubes so i assume I'm taking her to combat. :cool: