Windows 8

[Hawk66]

Has anybody manged to get DW on Win 8 running? It seems to be not compatible :( even if you play with the compatibility settings...

[Blacklight]

In that case... No Windows 8 for me.

[Hawk66]

fyi: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_8-gaming/dangerous-water-game-crashes-in-windows-8/22358cc3-0b15-4444-9574-94f7b382a08e

But had no luck...so I've to use my old notebook to play it.

[ssn637]

I didn't have any luck with Windows 8 either, so I've gone back to Windows 7. Didn't much like the Metro UI anyway, but looking forward to Windows 9 it would be helpful to find an ultimate solution for future releases.

[Hawk66]

I fear there will not be any solution, apart from using virutalbox and that stuff..

Perhaps Sonalysts does do a fix for the non-commercial version or it is already Win8 capable, who knows. But only a new sim would probably provide compatibility for the commercial market, I guess...

[Blacklight]

And I don't see a modern sub sim being produced by any game company in my foreseeable future. It's too fringe and too complicated for today's mass video-game playing public. Out of everyone I know, I'm the only one who has anywhere NEAR the patience to have even LEARNED how to play Dangerous Waters or the other Sonolysts sims.

Is it just me, or has the indy modern subsim development, that was going strong for a while, just DIED completely?

[Fish]

Is it just me, or has the indy modern subsim development, that was going strong for a while, just DIED completely?

I'am afraid you are right. :(

[Theta Sigma]

It's too fringe and too complicated for today's mass video-game playing public.

You forget Silent Hunter.

Still, I'm dumbfounded by the lack of modern subsim development.

Silent Hunter remains a seller, and it's a period game, while DW is the current (well, most so) modern version, and it's dead. It's not as if there's been no interest in submarine warfare since WWII.

I remain perplexed by the dichotomy.

[Hawk66]

It is a little a pity, that all communication with Sonalysts seems to be lost...don't know if Onkel Neal is still in contact with them...

I mean since the ACTUV days, the devs were not seen here anymore. I'd expect at least a 'good bye' thread if they abandon this forum/contact with the community for any reason...but perhaps they are not allowed to speak here anymore, who knows.

And as a side notice: ACTUV runs smoothly on my Win 8 machine....so the probability is not low the that the non-commercial DW also runs on Win8.

[Blacklight]

Still, I'm dumbfounded by the lack of modern subsim development.I don't understand why a World War 2 sub sim could be so mainstream and a modern subsim could be so fringe. But then again, the Silent Hunter series was also fringe and probably JUST MADE ENOUGH MONEY to warrant sequels. Out of ALL the HARDCORE video gamers I know who have been into video games since the 80's, They've only "kind of heard of" Silent Hunter and NEVER heard of Dangerous Waters, Sub Command, or 688i Hunterkiller. When I showed them the manual for DW, it immediately scared them off.

Another reason is that World War II could seem so much more exciting to the casual gamer than the boring old "Cold War" where everything was done "behind the scenes". World War II had exciting gun to gun fights and explosions. The Cold War had... sneaking... political wrangling... sneaking... etc. To your average gamer, they will gravitate toward the exciting running around and blowing stuff up compared to sneaking.

Today's gamers want simplicity and explosions and they don't want to read manuals. Unfortunately, that's where the money is to be made nowadays. And for a company to take a risk on something fringe just isn't going to happen in this economy for the most part.

So the problem is that a game developer could knock off 100 Angry Birds in a couple weeks or a big cinematic first person shooter in a year or so and make $$$'s. Doing a hardcore military sim, expecially a sub sim, would take a LOT of time and research to make and would be quite complex and net them very little money, if any.
The game industry makes what they think will sell. So the fact that we havn't seen a modern subsim since Dangerous Waters, which was a commercial flop, speaks to the fact that either the majority of the video game buying public doesn't want modern sub sims, or that game companies don't think the public wants them. I'm suspecting a little bit of both.

If we see another modern subsim, it's probably going to have to come from an indy developer and since most indy developers are starting to focus on game consoles and smart phones now rather than PC's, that's also stagnating the field. There's really not that many (if any) hardcore/complicated games out there being worked on right now. Games seem to be coming in two categories at the moment. 1. Overly cinematic first person shooters, or 2. Simple smartphone/like games.

[Zander]

And I don't see a modern sub sim being produced by any game company in my foreseeable future. It's too fringe and too complicated for today's mass video-game playing public. Out of everyone I know, I'm the only one who has anywhere NEAR the patience to have even LEARNED how to play Dangerous Waters or the other Sonolysts sims.

Is it just me, or has the indy modern subsim development, that was going strong for a while, just DIED completely?
IMO, as long as the U.S. government continues to spend big money on defense, and to spend money that even the pentagon says it don't need, companies like Sonanalsyts will have no monetary incentive to create a "simulation" of the type we simmers want. Think about it, congress proposes to add two (2) trillion to the defense budget, and some of that money will be needed to create training systems for the military. Sonanalysts doesn't create weapons systems, it is creates simulations of weapons systems to train the warfighter.
The only way we will get anything is when/if defense budgets are reduced.
Right now the guys with the know to create simulations of modern systems are employed directly and indirectly by the government(s).

And I'm sticking with Win7 for the forseeable future. Eventually we will be needing a whole slew of "legacy" machines to run our
favorite simulator\games.:/\\!!

[Blacklight]

And I'm sticking with Win7 for the forseeable future. Eventually we will be needing a whole slew of "legacy" machines to run our
favorite simulator\games.:/\\!!

Unless "GOG" comes to the rescue. But I doubt it as I don't think Sonalysts is willing to give up the source code to anyone.

[Hawk66]

There are some "hard-core" games like Elite Dangerous (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1461411552/elite-dangerous) and other only PC rpgs/space simulations, founded on kickstarter.

I'd be pretty confident that Sonalysts would made a successor if the funding is there and it would fit in their timetable.

The problem is the amount, which you need at Kickstarter...perhaps 1-3 M$. So, you would need either find a lot of people, which is unrealistically or you would need to find still a considerable amount of people(a couple of thousands), who spent > 200$ for a sim, which would 'only' be 50-70$ worth, compared to previous times. Also, not very realistically, I guess.

Personally, I'd do it because I'd would happily concentrate all my 'game budget' for the foreseeable future in such a sim. Anyways, there are not many games out there nowadays, in which I've interest.

[Blacklight]

I just wish that game companies made hardcore sims again instead of the same old rehashed first person shooters, fighting games, platformers, real time strategy, and those annoying cheap smartphone-like games. I think it's been at least a decade since we've had a major game company release a hardcore sim.

[SilentPrey]

I just wish that game companies made hardcore sims again instead of the same old rehashed first person shooters, fighting games, platformers, real time strategy, and those annoying cheap smartphone-like games. I think it's been at least a decade since we've had a major game company release a hardcore sim.

If you're just talking Sub Sims then I agree. If you're talking sims in general; The Fighter Collection is releasing new modules for their Digital Combat Simulator every year or so. They have three different airframes modeled as study sims. (If you have to switch it on and wait for it to warm up in real life, you have to in these sims.) It's about as hardcore as you can get. I don't know that they qualify as 'major' but they're not one hit wonders. In summary, there are still companies programming hardcore sims. I just don't know of any for subs.

[sertore]

Hi all,
just to notice that Dangerous Waters works fine on VirtualBox by Oracle, multiplayer sessions included.
Just few time to install the virtual environment with XP (or Windows 7) and the game, with the MODs if wanted, and you can forget the problems introduced by the new OS Windows like, waiting without any hurry and issues for further naval simulations that will take the part of Dangerous Waters.
Hope this help.

[Hawk66]

@Sertore: Unfortunately, it does not work for me. I have issues with DirectX...artifacts and the sound is also not stable.

I've not tried it with Vista, yet.

[Blacklight]

It's sad, but we're pretty much in the middle of a huge dry spell for subsim fans. There hasn't been a good subsim in years and even the naval strategy sims that are coming out are kind of crappy. Naval War Arctic Circle=Crap. Harpoon=getting filled up with more and more bugs with each update. The last good subsim was Silent Hunter 4. The last modern subsim was released about 8 years ago. This is the longest we've gone without any real decent hardcore naval war or platform sim. Heck. Even hardcore flight sims seem to be gone now.

[Hawk66]

@Blacklight: IMO, there will be no further development, if not by luck a new a complete new version of DW is built for non-commercial customers.

The only working model in the scope of DW might be crowdfunding: Look at that http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2 a game, which would also never be financed by an AAA studio. Look especially how many people have paid a much higher price as you would normally pay for a game...the only plus side is you get some gadgets etc.

You see, simulations are not only the only genre which are abandoned. But in contrast to simulations, those communities are willing to pay the price...Wasteland 2 is only an example. Even roguelike rpgs game with original ASCII graphics got more than 90000$ from Kickstarter funded!

To be fair, more people are obviously interested in old school rpgs than in old school simulations...