Auxiliary Cruiser mod

[Cybermat47]

Just a small mod that gives the German Auxiliary cruisers in the game 6-inch guns.

DEVOLOPERS:
Cybermat47: Development and publishing.
V13dweller: Bug fixer.

Download link: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=3751

CHANGELOG:
v.0.0.01: First release
v.1.0.00: Fixes a bug.

[GT182]

Gun envy. ;) :har:

Looking forward to it Mat. Tho I've never seen a German Auxiliary cruiser ingame to notice the the difference. Tho I have seen the Brits sporting them in the Atlantic Air Gap mission.

Tell me, is there a way to have German surface ships [Q ships I think they were called] occasionally attacking with us when we go after a convoy? Or even attacking a single merchant on their own in the campaigns. You never know when they might need a bit of help. ;) Sure would be a cool mod. :yep:

[Cybermat47]

Hmmm... I'm not sure about attacking convoys, but I might be able to edit the traffic a bit so that the cruisers go out into the Indian ocean... and, of course, destroying anything they find while en route.

[gap]

Gun envy. ;) :har:

Looking forward to it Mat. Tho I've never seen a German Auxiliary cruiser ingame to notice the the difference. Tho I have seen the Brits sporting them in the Atlantic Air Gap mission.

Tell me, is there a way to have German surface ships [Q ships I think they were called] occasionally attacking with us when we go after a convoy? Or even attacking a single merchant on their own in the campaigns. You never know when they might need a bit of help. ;) Sure would be a cool mod. :yep:

Hmmm... I'm not sure about attacking convoys, but I might be able to edit the traffic a bit so that the cruisers go out into the Indian ocean... and, of course, destroying anything they find while en route.

GT182 is right.

Increasing the frequency of those units in generic traffic, as suggested by Cybermat, is a valid method, that should be used with caution though: after all Germany had only 9 auxiliary cruisers (http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/auxcruiser/index.html), they were mostly active in the far waters of South Atlantic, Indian, and Pacific Ocean, and most of them were sunk before '43.

Besides that, I have got a couple of extra ideas for putting them to use in game:

1. From late 40 to late 41, Kormoran, Atlantis and Pinguin, were sporadically used for refitting U-boats in South Atlantic. I will post the details in OHII thread.

2. After reading several patrol reports, I've noticed that escorting auxiliary cruisers or supply vessels both in North and South Atlantic was rather a common task for U-boats. Afaik neither the stock campaign nor OHII do feature similar missions. If there's any interest by Trevally on adding them to the campaign, I will be glad to collect some details on common escort routes. :salute:

[Captain73]

Hi All! :salute:
I hope that in the future will be able to fire cannons HMS Bismarck or HMS Hood! In SH4 was a mod Bismarck and I fired at the convoy! It would be great! This is just a dream..... :ahoy:
Thank you All for your work! :yeah:

[GT182]

So the small Auxilliary ships can be used more as actual fighting ships and resupply too. That's great Gap.

Last night in the Atlantic Air Gap patrol area I did see a contact for a German ship out in the middle of the Atlantic. I didn't investigate but I now know I should have, just to see what it was.

[Cybermat47]

v.0.0.01 RELEASED!
SEE POST #1 FOR DETAILS!

[krysvonshnorke]

nice job

[Cybermat47]

nice job

Thanks.

[V13dweller]

The Auxiliary cruisers can be found as convoy escorts in the Mediterranean, before this mod came, they were only armed with one Flak quad mounting, making them easy targets for other ships, it may even help during "Rommel's supplies"

Thanks for the mod.

By the way, do the doors the guns hide behind open up when the ships is attacking? Or do they just clip?

[Cybermat47]

By the way, do the doors the guns hide behind open up when the ships is attacking? Or do they just clip?

They just clip. Also, in a test I did, they only had guns on one side, but they did maneuver to get a shot.

[V13dweller]

I have noticed this, when in the game, the Auxiliary cruiser Penguin has only one gun, but in the museum it has four, same with Auxiliary cruiser Komet which only has one gun. The second one shows the same ship but in game.
It would be nice if this could be fixed, because they serve as escort ships, and there are strangely a lot of this one ship. They also see wide service in the Mediterranean, and they are very vulnerable against a destroyer what doesn't have to maneuver to make it's shots. And for ships of this size, trying to change your direction to attack is almost suicide, because mod destroyers have about 3-5 cannons, they can make short work of Merchants and others ships very quickly. Once, I saw a German Type 34 destroyer take down an armed merchant in less that a minute.
That was a C1B medium merchant, it was heading head on to the destroyer, before it could even turn to get it's stern facing gun to aim at the destroyer, it was already sinking, most merchants including Komet and Penguin have long turning times, this is usually their end, I exploit that fact with my deck gun, Merchants with a gun facing backwards you can carefully maneuver around it without it being able to get a shot on you.
An example of the missing guns.

[Cybermat47]

^^^^^
Sadly, I don't know how to fix the problem.
Damn :/\\!!:/\\!!:/\\!!

[V13dweller]

What a shame, but it is still not a bad mod, in most cases, the attacker of the convoy will attack the first ship it see's, so the other escorts will have a chance to move into position.

[gap]

I have noticed this, when in the game, the Auxiliary cruiser Penguin has only one gun, but in the museum it has four, same with Auxiliary cruiser Komet which only has one gun.

^^^^^
Sadly, I don't know how to fix the problem.
Damn :/\\!!:/\\!!:/\\!!

Have you checked Start/End dates in NAMC_Penguin.eqp / NAMC_Komet.eqp?

Usually museum shows late war armament outfits, but in campaign/missions the current date is compared with equipments' dates, in order to determine which gun/equipment is fitted on each bone. This fact might account for the issue of some guns being shown in museum but not in game :yep:

For the sake of historical correctness it is also to be said that neither Pinguin nor Komet (nor any other WWII auxiliary cruiser/merchant raider, for that matter), was equipped with just 4 guns. This would have made them easy targets for planes and even for their own preys :03:
Their actual outfits were:

HK Pinguin

Main Armament: 6 x 150 mm (5.9 in) SK L/45 guns
Secondary Armament: 1 x 75 mm gun, 2 x 37 mm (1x2) SK C/30 Flak guns, 4 x 20mm Flak guns
Torpedo Tubes: 2 x 53.3 cm (16 torpedoes)

http://www.reocities.com/pentagon/2833/kriegsmarine/raider/pinguin/pinguindata.jpg


HK Komet

Main Armament: 6 x 150 mm (5.9 in) SK L/45 guns
Secondary Armament: 1 x 60 mm gun, 2 x 37 mm (1x2) SK C/30 Flak guns, 4 x 20 mm Flak guns
Torpedo Tubes: 6 x 53.3 cm (24 torpedoes)

http://www.reocities.com/pentagon/2833/kriegsmarine/raider/komet/kometdata.jpg

Most of the listed guns are already available in SH5. Ship models are probably lacking the bones required for attaching the missing guns, but adding new bones to GR2 units is no longer a problem with TDW's viewer/editor :up:

[V13dweller]

I have read up on the Penguin and the Komet before, I was just commenting that 1 gun is unacceptable, even though these ships were armed to the teeth in real life, but the four guns on the Penguin and two guns on the Komet would be acceptable, even though most Armed Merchant Cruisers of the era were carrying many more guns. In the stock SH5 the 'Rawalpindi' Armed merchant Cruiser has about 8 (?) single 20mm anti airguns and the 6 BL 6 inch Mk VII naval guns, making it just as dangerous as a destroyer if you were to be caught surfaced by one, making it a much more viable ships as an escort then the Komet or Penguin in game.
Even in real life the HMS 'Rawalpindi' had 8, not six of the 6 inch naval guns, and was also armed with 2, 3 inch QF12 pounder's as anti aircraft defense, not 8(?) single 20mm anti airguns.

[gap]

I have read up on the Penguin and the Komet before, I was just commenting that 1 gun is unacceptable, even though these ships were armed to the teeth in real life, but the four guns on the Penguin and two guns on the Komet would be acceptable, even though most Armed Merchant Cruisers of the era were carrying many more guns. In the stock SH5 the 'Rawalpindi' Armed merchant Cruiser has about 8 (?) single 20mm anti airguns and the 6 BL 6 inch Mk VII naval guns, making it just as dangerous as a destroyer if you were to be caught surfaced by one, making it a much more viable ships as an escort then the Komet or Penguin in game.
Even in real life the HMS 'Rawalpindi' had 8, not six of the 6 inch naval guns, and was also armed with 2, 3 inch QF12 pounder's as anti aircraft defense, not 8(?) single 20mm anti airguns.

Yes, talking about stock ships' armaments, there are still too many inaccuracies that need to be addressed :yep:

There's an excellent though not very popular mod, called Cerberus 62 Historical Ship Equipment (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1504132#post1504132), that partly fixes them. Nonetheless, by the time it was released little could be done for increasing the number of guns that could be fitted about units, or for changing the position of the existing bones.

Despite the beta state of TDW's GR2 Editor/Viewer, by now we can perform the above mentioned tasks and much more :up:

[gap]

The Auxiliary cruisers can be found as convoy escorts in the Mediterranean

...they serve as escort ships, and there are strangely a lot of this one ship. They also see wide service in the Mediterranean...

German auxiliary cruisers on escort duty in the Mediterranean? :hmmm:

I don't think so for at least 3 reasons:

1. as I said a while back, there were only 9 of these ships in service with Kriegsmarine, not exactly "a lot" considering their wide range of action;
2. their main task was not escorting friendly convoys, but rather taking advantage of their camoufflages and heavy armaments for harassing single enemy merchats;
3. they operated mainly in South Atlantic, South Pacific and Indian Ocean. In the Mediterranean they would have been easily pinned down and, what's more, I doubt they would have made it through Gibraltar safely. :yep:

Italian destroyers and corvettes would have been a much more likely option for escorting axis shipping in the Mediterranean. If German auxiliary cruisers are used as escorts in Mare Nostrum and Battle of the Mediterranean, something is wrong with these campaigns... Trevally will have to deal with my complaints :O: :D

[Cybermat47]

^^^^^

gap, Ubisoft made this game. Are you expecting historical accuracy from them? :O:

[gap]

^^^^^

gap, Ubisoft made this game. Are you expecting historical accuracy from them? :O:

Not at all: I am expecting us to make it accurate :sunny: :D

[Cybermat47]

Not at all: I am expecting us to make it accurate :sunny: :D

Amen :salute:

[gap]

Amen :salute:

:haha:

[V13dweller]

What I mean by saying I have seen them in the Mediterranean, I don't mean it's accurate, I have just seen them there, I believe to have even seen two Auxiliary Cruiser Komets guarding the same convoy:haha:, I have even seen two Emden Class Cruisers at the same Port, (There was only one of this ship) one was at dock, the other was escorting the convoy. Ill do some more "Convoy watching" to see if i can get a screenshot of this.
So im just saying what i see in game, this has no regard for historical accuracies.:hmm2:
And if we look back at the stock game, there was only one HMS 'Rawalpindi'. If you take a look at Scapa flow or Loch Ewe you can see about two-three of them parked next to each other, and in two of the stock missions you have to "Sink five AMC ships" and Rawalpindi Armed Merchant cruisers are the only ships that qualify.
This game has quite some inadequacies.

[V13dweller]

And with 'Open Horizons' comes the 'North-sands' large freighter, and that shares the same skin as the Auxiliary Cruiser Penguin without its (1) gun (s) , there is also a rename of the Komet as well with a 3 inch(?) put in place of it's quad Flak , but I cannot remember that name right now. There also come the 'Troop Transport' that is a Rawalpindi Armed Merchant cruiser without the 6 Inch guns. From what i have seen, the 'North-sands' Large Freighter would have a better chance of defending itself because it's single gun faces backwards but can aim to a certain extent forwards, this supported by the fact that, Merchants begin to take repeated left-right-left-right course changes on sight of danger(Submarines and their torpedoes)

[V13dweller]

After looking through some convoys, i have also seen multiple 'Carl Paters fleet tenders' in one convoy.
In real life, there was only one fleet tender by that name, the other fleet tenders looked similar but not that similar, I have also got a good example of ship armaments that Gap was talking about, the 'SV medium freighter' has seven large calibers guns, this seems like a more realistic weapon setup.

[gap]

What I mean by saying I have seen them in the Mediterranean, I don't mean it's accurate, I have just seen them there, I believe to have even seen two Auxiliary Cruiser Komets guarding the same convoy:haha:, I have even seen two Emden Class Cruisers at the same Port, (There was only one of this ship) one was at dock, the other was escorting the convoy. Ill do some more "Convoy watching" to see if i can get a screenshot of this.
So im just saying what i see in game, this has no regard for historical accuracies.:hmm2:
And if we look back at the stock game, there was only one HMS 'Rawalpindi'. If you take a look at Scapa flow or Loch Ewe you can see about two-three of them parked next to each other, and in two of the stock missions you have to "Sink five AMC ships" and Rawalpindi Armed Merchant cruisers are the only ships that qualify.
This game has quite some inadequacies.

I've got your point V13dweller :up:

Have you experienced all of this with OHII enabled? Hopefully it won't be too difficult for Trevally fixing those issues, since all of the auxiliary cruisers/merchant raiders featured in game are grouped under the same 'UnitType', and mission editor let us choice how each "class" is used in game :yep:

[gap]

And with 'Open Horizons' comes the 'North-sands' large freighter, and that shares the same skin as the Auxiliary Cruiser Penguin without its (1) gun (s) , there is also a rename of the Komet as well with a 3 inch(?) put in place of it's quad Flak , but I cannot remember that name right now. There also come the 'Troop Transport' that is a Rawalpindi Armed Merchant cruiser without the 6 Inch guns. From what i have seen, the 'North-sands' Large Freighter would have a better chance of defending itself because it's single gun faces backwards but can aim to a certain extent forwards, this supported by the fact that, Merchants begin to take repeated left-right-left-right course changes on sight of danger(Submarines and their torpedoes)

After looking through some convoys, i have also seen multiple 'Carl Paters fleet tenders' in one convoy.
In real life, there was only one fleet tender by that name, the other fleet tenders looked similar but not that similar, I have also got a good example of ship armaments that Gap was talking about, the 'SV medium freighter' has seven large calibers guns, this seems like a more realistic weapon setup.

Having units that are playing multiple roles is quite normal: SH5 got a limited number of ships, and some of them where "cloned" (either in stock game or in OHII) with a variety of skins and loadouts for representing different classes.

In some cases this is acceptable to me. Take for instance the yet discussed axiliary cruisers/merchant raiders case: in real life they were requisitioned and converted merchant ships of common design (like the Ems class freighters). So duplicating them in game with lesser armaments in order to represent normal merchants, should be entirely legitimate. In other cases I will agree that this trick is just a forced compromise.

Nonetheless, once/if we get more detailed models, and as soon as we will able to import them in game as GR2 unit, it won't be difficult replacing the cloned ships in campaign with better models :up:

[V13dweller]

I was experimenting with the Mission editor again, and I have found that the Scharnhorst and Deutschland Pocket battleships main guns actually don't fire:hmmm:
They track the targets, but they don't fire, the ship only uses it's secondary weapons, like the smaller single barrel cannons.

It's quite strange, I put all of the German battleships in a line, and some British battleships in a line, the Germans won, after a long battle, the Schleswig-Holstien seemed to have been attacked the least, and made most of the kills (Strange for a per-dreadnaught)
The Bismarck charged in and make short work of the destroyer screen guarding the battleships, took some damage but came out alive.

If you want the statistics of battle, the British had HMS Suffolk, Hood, Barham and Ark royal. 3 Kent heavy cruisers, 2 A class destroyers, 4 flower corvettes, and 2 Black swan sloop's. The Germans had KM Tirpitz, KM Scharnhorst, KM Deutschland, KM Konigsberg KM Koln 4 type 34 destroyers AMC Penguin AMC Komet and KM Emden.
What a battle it was. :)

I did my best to make it as fair as possible, because the pocket battleships don't use their main guns.

Also the Auxiliary cruisers did not maneuver to attack the enemy :stare:
They just did that zig-zag course non-destroyers do when enemies are nearby.

[gap]

I was experimenting with the Mission editor again...

Hi again V13dweller, we are going off topic here. I will reply instead on this thread: :)

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1935678

[V13dweller]

I think I found a solution to your problem, go the the Eqp file and set the date it get's attached to whet ever date you please, like 1938, that will make the four guns present constantly, so they will have their cannons from the start.

I hope this solution helps.

[Cybermat47]

I think I found a solution to your problem, go the the Eqp file and set the date it get's attached to whet ever date you please, like 1938, that will make the four guns present constantly, so they will have their cannons from the start.

I hope this solution helps.

Good one! You just solved that particular problem!

[Cybermat47]

v.1.0.00 is up! Thanks V13dweller! :salute:

[V13dweller]

Your very welcome. :salute:

[V13dweller]

There are some comments on the previous pages that discuss people never actually seeing the Auxiliary cruisers, but from my experience they are often seen escorting German or Italian (?) convoys, even in the Mediterranean but this is probably a bug. (Not the mods fault)

But this mod, nevertheless increases the effectiveness of German convoy escorts no matter where they be.

I have tested them in ME2 and when it comes to attacking early convoys, they perform very well against early convoys and even some later armed merchants.

[CaptJulius]

Great! Thank You. :up:

[Cybermat47]

Great! Thank You. :up:

You're welcome :salute:

[Cybermat47]

Updated. The auxiliary cruisers now have a more realistic armament.