Poll: Do You Use RSRDC or not? [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

fitzcarraldo

07-24-12, 04:27 PM

just wondering if you use RSRDC or not and do you play with and without RSRDC at times.

i am considering if i should try to merge it into GFO with my next update

thank you for your input

I ever use RSRDC with TMO (not in FOTRS, not compatible). I like to go (and see and hunt some ship) to the historical battles of PTO: only RSRDC have these battles in accurate form (with the limitations of the game, of course).

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

Armistead

07-24-12, 04:29 PM

I can't play without it, but I've long edited the crew ratings to be more in line with TMO and added a bunch of ships and more traffic, been working on the ports so they're much harder to attack.

RSRD has plenty of traffic, just got to play historical and stay in the right shipping lanes.

Hylander_1314

07-24-12, 04:51 PM

Depends on how I want to play. I like having it a separate mod so I can choose to use it for a campaign or not.

stanger

07-24-12, 04:54 PM

Webster, I think you would satisfy a lot of people with stock single merchants layers merged with RSRD. That way GFO would have historical battles and convoys and more dense single merchant traffic.

Hitman

07-24-12, 05:08 PM

Going purely historical is out of the scope of the GFO mod, so I guess adding RSRD as it is would exceed the fix and even expansion to new stuff (units, ports, etc) idea and eliminate one existing feature in the game: The more abundant traffic.

Still I think the amount of work put into RSRD and the fixes added to it would be worth the adition, so I say make an optional "historic" set of layers that can be enabled with JSGME to make RSRD be complete and player's request and it will be good.

Beware though that IIRC there were still people reporting some minor bugs/glitches when Lurker left his work, so it is not guaranteed that RSRD is 100% right everywhere. I think revising the RSRD thread from the point Lurker left would be worth it.

Webster

07-24-12, 08:56 PM

well long ago GFO kinda already strayed a little from purely fixes but i tried to keep it at a minimum. the name isnt really accurate any more because its become much more then just game fixes.

im just thinking that anyone adding RSRDC on top of GFO has me making a patch to redo a whole lot of stuff in order to make it compatable and there are a lot of things like the missions in RSRDC that have ctd issues so they are best left out of your game so i was wondering if pre-installing it then correcting whats out of sync might be the better simpler and easier way to go about using them together.

i never minded the campaign and additions of extra ships in RSRDC but the reduction in shipping wasnt my cup of tea so i just never use it myself. i like the unknown surprises of non scripted randomness vs the semi cheat of known historical timelines locations and dates.

i guess i could do surgery on RSRDC to remove what i feel has issues or what might conflict with GFO but i dont know about the idea of messing with someone elses mod to create a RSRDC Lite version of it. all i feel would be needed from it would be the campaign and new ships and planes and as to ports and harbors i would have to see what was done but if its historicly accurate then i see no reason not to have it in the game

Armistead

07-25-12, 12:15 PM

I don't think lurker would care, hadn't seen him in years, but probably better to copy his files and make your own mod with your changes.

Yea, I agree it's so historical, once you learn it, you can always know where to go.

I did do mass work to it for my own play, but left most of his work alone, cept to add certain ships missing from his groups like the Nagato. I did add several convoys using more generics and percentages for all factors, more course changes and loops, just enough to confuse me with some of his traffic, can't learn it all..

One thing I hate is the speed by TF, no they didn't always run around at high speed, but usually faster than your subs best speed, too many times I can do end around after end around. What I hate the most and I can't find a fix, is when groups know you're there, they often slow down, really helm more than zig, making them easy to attack. If under attack groups should speed up to the best speed, not slow down.

I added several sub killer groups set to elite running the shipping lanes, RSRD has so few. Need more escorts roaming the shipping lanes, blocking straits, etc..

Been working on China coast traffic for later war, many convoys hugged the coast, even though you get a message later war that convoys have moved closer to the coast, none really do. I have traffic all along the china coast coming from different ports, hard to attack...

Ports need more work, just too easy to get in places like Truk. I've worked on a few with more shore guns, minefields and escorts, but would love to see this really done well.

Anyway, can't wait to see what you do, then I can butcher your work and add it as I see fit to mine....:haha:

Hylander_1314

07-25-12, 05:04 PM

Webster

07-25-12, 05:27 PM

I was gonna ask, Webster, if you had thought of making a reduced shipping traffic option? I mean the heavy traffic is cool and all, but I find myself dodging ships, just so I can make it to my designated patrol area without running out of torpedoes and all.

I would do it myself, but am not well versed in what to change, and where. Other than that, I really like GFO as a mod. Again, it is something different. And it gives me the option to just play the game without too many things to worry about, which is nice when time is limited.

redoing the campaign is a huge undertaking and not one i want to get into, there are seperate mods to do that with and thats the best way to change things like that, remember GFO's goal is still to not stray too far from stock. if i could only add the historically accurate battles and such while keeping the stock traffic thats what i had in mind, not a major redo.

Anyway, can't wait to see what you do, then I can butcher your work and add it as I see fit to mine....:haha:

lol, well im not interested in creating new mods, im semi retired from that.

what i had in mind was adding RSRDC as-is and then removing a lot of things i dont like from it like the complete removal of random traffic all over, im not wanting to get into completely redesigning a new mod based on it.

i never looked into the campaigns much so im not sure how its all handled but i guess i need to learn more about it

Hylander_1314

07-25-12, 06:10 PM

Well, in that case, that would be pretty cool! Just adapt it to work with what you have. That is an interesting idea for sure!

And I can understand the other part. But hey, if you don't ask, you'll never know.

Caustic

07-25-12, 07:59 PM

RSRDC is almost necessary for me and should be an essential part of GFO, I prefer historical realism over anything else.

Armistead

07-25-12, 08:56 PM

redoing the campaign is a huge undertaking and not one i want to get into, there are seperate mods to do that with and thats the best way to change things like that, remember GFO's goal is still to not stray too far from stock. if i could only add the historically accurate battles and such while keeping the stock traffic thats what i had in mind, not a major redo.

lol, well im not interested in creating new mods, im semi retired from that.

what i had in mind was adding RSRDC as-is and then removing a lot of things i dont like from it like the complete removal of random traffic all over, im not wanting to get into completely redesigning a new mod based on it.

i never looked into the campaigns much so im not sure how its all handled but i guess i need to learn more about it

The batch editor is your friend.

I remember when you started GFO and the big stir...., haha. I just took a look at your changes, seems it's turning into a mod afterall...:har:.

Webster

08-03-12, 08:24 PM

The batch editor is your friend.

I remember when you started GFO and the big stir...., haha. I just took a look at your changes, seems it's turning into a mod afterall...:har:.

ya there was such a big stink over nothing :o amazing how people react sometimes

Ducimus

08-03-12, 09:58 PM

just wondering if you use RSRDC or not and do you play with and without RSRDC at times.

I think most people do.

well long ago GFO kinda already strayed a little from purely fixes but i tried to keep it at a minimum. the name isnt really accurate any more because its become much more then just game fixes.

I always knew you'd stray from "game fixes only". It's really unavoidable to stray from "fixes only", because so much is interrelated, and no matter who you are, or what your intentions maybe, you do have an opinion, and your opinion will effect your design decisions.

I don't think lurker would care, hadn't seen him in years, but probably better to copy his files and make your own mod with your changes.

While I haven't seen lurker in ages either, we had a pretty good working relationship, and I can say with a fair amount of confidence that he does care. I asked once if i could incorporate his campaign or springboard off it, and as i recall he gave me permission to incorporate the campaign, however, i could not make any changes to it aside from compatibility fixes to ensure it ran properly.

redoing the campaign is a huge undertaking and not one i want to get into,

It IS a huge undertaking. Its very time consuming, and very tedious. Trust me I know. I did put alot of work into TMO's "Default campaign". In it, my aim wasn't perfect historical accuracy, but more of "historical behavior". Which was different from RSRD in its aim.

Armistead

08-03-12, 11:33 PM

Well, maybe Lurker would care, guess it's a tough call, but I see several mods that tweak RSRD such as TMO visuals for RSRD, no big deal, but it does adjust boat sensors. Simply that is a change, but it's a seperate mod.
Not sure how it's seen if people made seperate mods that adjust another mod....

Fact is RSRD needs updating, always things you can do to make something better. For instance, I edited all the crew ratings to be more in line with TMO, yep, changed his files, but would that be a problem to release?

As far as what I've done to rework his campaign, I wouldn't release, but with so many new ships, sad we can't put them in RSRD. I've long added the Nagato, etc...

I think Webster is right, for us that have played RSRD for years, no randomness.

Shame no one can get in touch with him, many of us have done a lot of work to RSRD, combined we could do a nice update to it.

Ducimus

08-04-12, 07:46 AM

Fact is RSRD needs updating,

All the mods need updating. RSRD, RFB, TMO, etc. The thing is, the majority the old crew of modders has moved on. Myself included.

Time for some new folks to step up to the plate and make some new mods.

You know i've noticed this about subim modding. The majority of your big brand name mods, in all three games, are derived from the same generation of subsim users. This is not a healthy thing.

Hylander_1314

08-04-12, 09:46 AM

Armistead

08-04-12, 10:32 AM

I would like to take up where you guys left off, but I lack the skills to do so. Everything I tweak just for myself turns into a darn monumental task, and if I were to attempt it, it would never get done, or probably make it outta the gate.

hehe, I've got about 30 mods I've made still behind the gate. However, I'm a tweaker, I just like to play with others work.:O:

aanker

08-04-12, 06:43 PM

There is a realistic campaign a friend made that is similar in principle to RSRD and I like running that.

I want to edit it (or a couple files on top of it) so it will work with (or without) TMO 2.5 - relatively easy to do but time consuming - of course I also want to include the V class NARWHAL mod.

Just throwing that out there because there may be others who like to keep their options open and depending on how they feel, run or not run RSRD, TMO, etc.

Variety is the spice of life.

Happy Hunting!

Art

PS - GFO sure has grown... lol :)

TorpX

08-05-12, 01:50 AM

You know I've noticed this about subim modding. The majority of your big brand name mods, in all three games, are derived from the same generation of subsim users. This is not a healthy thing.
Now and then some people have asked for the leading modders to write a SH 4 modding manual for the benefit of the community. Unfortunately, this idea never seemed to go anywhere. Most of the modders around here prefer to work alone, like mad scientists in their laboratories, so when they finish, get burned out, or just move on, their knowledge is lost. If there was a systematic effort to develop and teach the techniques involved, we would have more mods. I don't think it is realistic to expect very many people to just pick it up, and be able to do it on their own, unaided. It doesn't help, that the SH3 and SH 5 modders do not collaborate with the SH4 community.

As you say, this is not a healthy thing.

stanger

08-05-12, 04:16 AM

What's the problem? Lets start a thread (SH4 Tweak Guide or something) and everyone with some knowledge to spare, can post there. Only two rules: one "tweak\instruction" per post, and post only "tweaks", no discussion (to keep it clean). First post could be reserved for index. Just an idea.

Armistead

08-05-12, 08:22 AM

Now and then some people have asked for the leading modders to write a SH 4 modding manual for the benefit of the community. Unfortunately, this idea never seemed to go anywhere. Most of the modders around here prefer to work alone, like mad scientists in their laboratories, so when they finish, get burned out, or just move on, their knowledge is lost. If there was a systematic effort to develop and teach the techniques involved, we would have more mods. I don't think it is realistic to expect very many people to just pick it up, and be able to do it on their own, unaided. It doesn't help, that the SH3 and SH 5 modders do not collaborate with the SH4 community.

As you say, this is not a healthy thing.

I think the bigger question is just how further can this game be modded, often I think not much, then someone steps out of the box with another great mod like OTC. However, I agree to a point, I love playing with enviroments and how they effect sensors, but basically had to teach myself. I even recently started a thread on env. settings to see if it can be pushed more, but it really didn't take off.

As Duci said, mods like RSRD, RFB and TMO could use more updating. I've long updated RSRD for myself, but the few times I mentioned releasing it, basically told without lurkers permission a bad idea, so the heck with it. Be nice if a modder like lurker leaves for good, he gives permission to use his work so it can be updated. I see numerous mods for TMO, so Duci doesn't seem to have a problem with it.

I'm not sure of mod releasing ettiquite, most don't want to make more supermods, just improve on the existing, so we tweak away at them. We work off the files in the base mod, but seems as long as we make a smaller seperate mods that leaves their files intact, it shouldn't be an issue. However, if permission is required and you can't get it, guess it's best to leave it alone.

I think the bigger issue is so many use a combo of mods. In thes past Duci would combine many of these and do the many hours of testing to find a balance, that can take 100's of hours, let's fact it, many just aren't gonna take the time.

Webster

08-05-12, 12:28 PM

modding another mod or old abandoned mods:

the way i see it is a mod that was freely uploaded/submitted for download to the public is free to be modded by anyone in any manner they choose as long as they dont try to pass it off as that mod. if you do a complete makeover of the mod then when releasing it make up your own name for it and give full credit for anyones files contained within it, not just the lead modder such as with large mods.

if the original modder is still around then it would be a good idea to get together with them and learn more about the mod from them and perhaps come to some understanding to keep the original modders "vision" for the mod.

in other words anyone can release a "mod for another mod" that will take that mod and change whatever they want without needing permission to because there is no pretense or suggestion that the original modder was involved in it. its no different then modding the actual game itself and ubi has much more "ownership" of the game files then another modder can claim.

if the original modder is still around then you should be "polite" and inform them of your intentions ahead of time but i dont feel permission is "needed" to create a mod for another mod in a situation like that.

i "do" feel it should be made very clear right up front that there was no colaboration or permissions given by the original modder to make changes to the original mod and the original modder is not to be contacted or expected to help in fixing any issues that arise from using the mod for another mod and there may be side effects or issues resulting from using the mod so "use it at your own risk" and its all on the new modder if it doesnt work or has issues with the mod its modding then its all on you alone as the modder of the mod for another mod to fix it yourself or people just wont use your mod.

everyone may not share my opinions on this but thats how i see it as being the most fair, reaonable, and objective way to deal with a very sensative subject to address.

Webster

08-05-12, 12:52 PM

further to clarify:

i do see and fully understand how insulting it can be for a modder to have his hard work modded by someone else into a vision or just a poorly done way he may not agree with but IMHO its not something you can or you should expect to be able to control.

i think any mod that is currently maintained by the modder, out of respect for that modder, his mod should not be reworked in any major way but i dont see any issues with others creating and releasing mods to mod it further or in different ways such as skins, sensors, and environment if that is what they like better.

TorpX

08-06-12, 11:38 PM

I think the bigger question is just how further can this game be modded, often I think not much, then someone steps out of the box with another great mod like OTC. ... etc.
Well, I'm not really in a position to judge. It seems like most of the low hanging fruit has been plucked, and we need people with a longer reach to make further progress. Often I take a peek at the SH3 part of the forum, and find myself envious of their mods. They seem very impressive.

i do see and fully understand how insulting it can be for a modder to have his hard work modded by someone else into a vision or just a poorly done way he may not agree with but IMHO its not something you can or you should expect to be able to control.

I agree. If someone creates a mod, only to keep it chained up in their computer, what's the point? If they release it, but make stipulations proscribing any alteration, it may end up dying a slow death with nobody wanting to improve it or update it. I can see why modders would prefer their mods be altered/used in line with the original vision of the creater, though.

Armistead

08-07-12, 12:19 AM

Well, I'm not really in a position to judge. It seems like most of the low hanging fruit has been plucked, and we need people with a longer reach to make further progress. Often I take a peek at the SH3 part of the forum, and find myself envious of their mods. They seem very impressive.

I agree. If someone creates a mod, only to keep it chained up in their computer, what's the point? If they release it, but make stipulations proscribing any alteration, it may end up dying a slow death with nobody wanting to improve it or update it. I can see why modders would prefer their mods be altered/used in line with the original vision of the creater, though.

No doubt it's the mods that keep this old game going, but due to the game code we're limited to some degree.

I do wish we could somehow agree to updating RSRD without causing a stir. For the most part you could create files outside of his mod, but you would also have to use some of his files in his mod to do it properly, certainly would be less time consuming.

aanker

08-07-12, 11:14 AM

With proper research the campaign layers could be re-written again, the Special missions dumped, and replaced by the actual missions that took place again. Naval Battles could be added to the campaign layers and the actual forward bases that were built as we advanced toward Japan could be added again. SH4 could generate the shipping called.

This was already done by someone who put in a tremendous amount of research and work rebuilding the campaign layers and all the mission files.

TMO 2.5 is advanced past the above mod so the mod is incompatible. Very unfortunate.

The above scripting could be done again however, then there would be no compatibility issues but it's a whole lot of work to research and rewrite the layers & missions. Then make it universally compatible.

Time - just ask how much time was spent building RSRD & the mod I described. Who has the time & dedication for accuracy to do that again?

The reward of a sweet, up to date, universally (2.5) compatible mod is the payoff.

Webster

08-07-12, 12:55 PM

Time - just ask how much time was spent building RSRD & the mod I described. Who has the time & dedication for accuracy to do that again?

thats for sure, i think thats why the RSRDC missions have a lot of ctd issues in them, i guess he was just worn out by the time he got around to doing them and the result is they have some that ctd because they have a few glitches in them.

i certainly do have the time but not the will to make it, im not looking to get into a large mod project, hell im having a hard enough time geting motivated just to update GFO and my other mods to fix all the little issues here and there or make them more complete. (some didnt go far enough or were a little rough around the edges)