More realistic reloading times

[messageboy101]

i modded the deck gun reloading times to a more realistic time
My sources were books, submarine records:03: from patrols and the internet

My first gun is the 4''/50
the stock time was 5.0
and the modded time is
not very much but more realistic:up:
i also modded the recoil time to fit better with the new loading times

And if you want star shells you can ask:yeah:

Going to releas the final one in a few days
Beta already here

Greets messageboy101:salute:

PS: how to upload pics to subsim


Anybody having intrest in a Beta version
http://www.mediafire.com/?hzwwnph6q06wd8d

[messageboy101]

Change log.
Version 0.0.1: Beta version 1
Version 0.0.2: added a deck gun
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Common issues.
None


greets messageboy101

[Sailor Steve]

More realistic loading, less realistic firing. Nothing like throwing realism out the window for the sake of "realism".

[arnahud2]

More realistic loading, less realistic firing. Nothing like throwing realism out the window for the sake of "realism".

Sailor steve, what do you mean by "less realistic firing" ? :hmmm:

[messageboy101]

best sailor steve

could you first try and then start to complain.
i would be nice if you did.
because i have putted in time and effort


greets messageboy101

[mookiemookie]

Oh look, it's this discussion again. :rotfl2:

The gun reload time question will never be conclusively answered.

[Sailor Steve]

Sailor steve, what do you mean by "less realistic firing" ? :hmmm:
As I've explained many times over the last five years, naval gunnery is the least precise of sciences. Peter Padfield, in his book Guns At Sea, compared it to shooting a pistol at a golf ball rolling across a fireplace mantle while sitting in a rocking chair being randomly rocked by someone else.

Yes, the gun could be reloaded in five-to-ten seconds. The gunner then had to fire "on the roll", meaning he had to wait until the gun became level or to the proper angle at longer ranges. Battleships had what is called the "Stable Element", a gyroscope that automatically fired the guns when the ship was level. Destroyers had dedicated fire control systems that allowed the Fire Control Officer to fire all the guns on his command. The WW2 submarine had none of these. The gunsight was no better than the iron sights used in sailing ship days. Unless the sea was dead calm and the range less than 500 yards they could not be expected to fire more than once every 20 seconds or so, and even then the average hit rate was less than 20%.

could you first try and then start to complain.
You're not the first, or even the tenth, to do something like this. I don't object to you wanting to have a faster firing rate; how you play the game is your business. I do object to you calling it "more realistic", when you apparently have no idea of what naval gunnery actually involves.

[mookiemookie]

Not to mention that after the first few shells stored in the external ammo locker were used up, shells were passed up from the conning tower, bucket brigade style. This necessarily is going to slow the gun crew down, especially on a slippery, pitching and rolling gunnery platform.

[messageboy101]

so would it be better if i made the times longer than shorter
since i only counted in the pitching and rolling of the boat



Greets messageboy101

[mookiemookie]

so would it be better if i made the times longer than shorter
since i only counted in the pitching and rolling of the boat



Greets messageboy101

This is a topic that has been debated on and on, over and over, for years here on Subsim. Here's one thread that I dug up in just a few minutes of searching: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=156804&highlight=deck+gun+reload

And another: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=150939&highlight=deck+gun+reload

It seems that both sides (deck guns should reload fast, deck guns should reload slow) have compelling evidence to support their position. It seems that we'll never really know for sure, unless someone can find a U-boat crewman who served on a gun crew. Unfortunately, primary sources for this bit of history are getting increasingly rare.

[Hylander_1314]

"Peter Padfield, in his book Guns At Sea, compared it to shooting a pistol at a golf ball rolling across a fireplace mantle while sitting in a rocking chair being randomly rocked by someone else." :haha:

Thanks Sailor Steve! I needed the chuckle!

So that's why my deckgun crew can't hit a bull in the butt with a bass fiddle! Even at 500 yards, and dead calm seas! They fire ahead, behind, then over the top, even if the target is dead in the water, and we are at a complete stop.

But i rarely use the darn thing anyways. A waste of time and ammunition mostly. Unless you got a couple guys from the backwoods of Kentucky or Tennessee, who can shoot them squirrel guns and hit a turkey in the head at 200 yards with a bead sight, as the gunners.

[Sailor Steve]

so would it be better if i made the times longer than shorter
since i only counted in the pitching and rolling of the boat
No, you set it for what you want. I was just arguing with the "realistic" point. The fact is that the gun could fire at that rate under perfect conditions. The problem is that while the developers took many factors into account, the effects of weather and the difference between ready-use ammo and that which had to be carried from the magazine weren't among them.

There is always room for more mods. Just because I disagree doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. :sunny:

[Carthaginian]

But i rarely use the darn thing anyways. A waste of time and ammunition mostly. Unless you got a couple guys from the backwoods of Kentucky or Tennessee, who can shoot them squirrel guns and hit a turkey in the head at 200 yards with a bead sight, as the gunners.


So far this patrol - two gunboats, two freighters and a few sampans.
I have no problem hitting 2/3rds of the time or better.
My gun crew, OTOH... :har:

[Sailor Steve]

Thanks Sailor Steve! I needed the chuckle!
On the old Warships1 (now NavWeaps) forums someone once pointed out that the average hit ration for World War 2 was only 7%. In long-range firing by the best battleships made the score was only 2%. Inside of 2000 yards was a whopping 12%. When I mentioned this on another forum some years ago a former army artillerist pointed out that "we managed to hit the ground 98% of the time."

I have some records. In the Bismarck battle Rodney fired 375 16" rounds for an estimated 40 hits. That's not quite 11%. The battle opened at 23,500 yards, and at the end Rodney was firing at less than 4000 yards, so that sounds about average. Both British battleships suffered breakdowns of both guns and fire control radar. It's not certain how many shots Bismarck fired, but the ship that sank the Hood just a few days earlier scored no hits at all in her last battle. This was probably due to a very lucky hit scored by Rodney in the first moments of battle at extreme range that took out Bismarck's main fire control system.

On the other hand the game also doesn't allow for oddities such as the occasional deck gun blowing up when fired.

[arnahud2]

As I've explained many times over the last five years, naval gunnery is the least precise of sciences. Peter Padfield, in his book Guns At Sea, compared it to shooting a pistol at a golf ball rolling across a fireplace mantle while sitting in a rocking chair being randomly rocked by someone else.

Yes, the gun could be reloaded in five-to-ten seconds. The gunner then had to fire "on the roll", meaning he had to wait until the gun became level or to the proper angle at longer ranges. Battleships had what is called the "Stable Element", a gyroscope that automatically fired the guns when the ship was level. Destroyers had dedicated fire control systems that allowed the Fire Control Officer to fire all the guns on his command. The WW2 submarine had none of these. The gunsight was no better than the iron sights used in sailing ship days. Unless the sea was dead calm and the range less than 500 yards they could not be expected to fire more than once every 20 seconds or so, and even then the average hit rate was less than 20%.

Ok, thanks SailorSteve, brillant explainations.:up:

Now i better understand why you seem to disagree with messageboy101's reloading time mod.

[Sailor Steve]

As I said, I don't really disagree with it at all. There is always room for another mod, and everybody's tastes are different. I'm just a crusty old opinionated curmudgeon who likes to argue about terminology. :sunny:

[Hylander_1314]

So far this patrol - two gunboats, two freighters and a few sampans.
I have no problem hitting 2/3rds of the time or better.
My gun crew, OTOH... :har:

Yep, I can hit consistantly if "I" take over the gun, but since our position is the Skipper of the boat, it is not the proper chain of command for us to take it over and do their job. So like any commander, we should leave that job to those who are assigned to the boat.

But agreed, my guncrews are laughable when it comes to sinking a target. The only time I use them, is when my last torpedo(s) fail to sink a ship, but if it's armed with large caliber guns, I have to be very careful, because the enemy AI can score hits on my boat at a rate of 5 to 1 against my guncrew. So I have to position the boat so they can't fire on us.

[Hylander_1314]

As I said, I don't really disagree with it at all. There is always room for another mod, and everybody's tastes are different. I'm just a crusty old opinionated curmudgeon who likes to argue about terminology. :sunny:

Yeah, just take into account all the factors, I have changed reload times to about a minute each.

Btw, thanks for the earlier info! So according to the calculations, the Bismark sinking the Hood so quickly, with that shot to the magazine, must be just about incalculable.

[Sailor Steve]

Pure blind luck. Hood having a weak spot in the armor... Hood opening fire on the wrong ship... Admiral Holland trying to close the gap, thus limiting his ability to shoot back... and finally a shell landing at exactly the right spot.

The same was true in the next battle. If Prince Of Wales had not hit Bismarck's fuel tank in the Hood battle... if of all the torpedoes launched at Bismarck by the Swordfish one had not been lucky enough to hit the steering room... and fnally a shell from Rodney taking out the main fire control.

So much in war, as in the rest of life, hinges on a single moment, and sometimes that moment changes everything. And sometimes, looking back, no matter how much we wish we could change it, we realize we had no control over it at all.