An idea from an old-timer here

[SilentOtto]

Hi all!

It's been quite long since I was around, when sh5 came out my pc was not up to the needed specs, and like many of you I was a bit disappointed with sh4, and even more with sh5 so I have quit playing sub sims for a few years.

From time to time I log into subsim to see what you guys are up to. Today I read about this $&%$"(%$% project of silent hunter online, which as most of you I can't loathe more. This is exactly the opposite of what we wish!

So I was thinking, and maybe you have already talked about this idea, but have you thought about starting a project, and I don't mean any personal projects (from what I've seen most of those have slowly died), I mean, something like a kickstarter project.

For those not in the know, kickstarter is a fundraising system to start any kind of projects, from music festival to books, music or software. Basically the thing is that people sign up and compromise to pay an amount to fund the project. When the project collects the needed money (and not before!) then all of the members pay that amount and the project can start.

I have been a supporter of a few small kickstarter projects which worked very well, like comic books. Maybe, we hardcore subsim fans could start a project like that, hire some software developers, graphic and sound people and get something going.

This goes to Neal and the other old salts, you remember, 2002, when you hired that guy to fix SH2 online multiplayer? It sucked as it was released, but we (I paid too! :D) hired a guy who fixed it, and made it work as we wanted it to.

Well, one can dream, but I think this might be the only way for us to get what we want. Most software companies are going into this "free" to play games, where they suck from you more money than they ever thought they could, and we are a niche market... but now there are tools that might allow us to do it.

Also, the awesome community here has always released amazing stuff, most of the time suffering to work with no help at all from the developer, and releasing mods that raised the quality of the sims to an incredible level. So we can count that many many parts of the sim could be done here, in-the-house.

So what do you think? Am I dreaming? Are you already thinking of something like this?


PS I post here because I think this new ubisoft idea shows that we will probably never again get the kind of sim we want! If you think this is crazy, pls silently discard this old sub freak suggestion. :arrgh!:

Godspeed to all!

(i thought better to ask for the post to be moved here!)

[Hinrich Schwab]

Kickstarter worked for Al Lowe and Leisure Suit Larry (another franchise ruined by corporate stupidity), I do not see any reason why not. I would donate. A Subsim.com brand simulation would be just the thing to slap Ubisoft in the face. Not only that, it would introduce something that would certainly get their attention; competition.

[reaper7]

This will be of interest to you

http://www.u-boot-hahd.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=315

[SilentOtto]

Well it does look promising, reaper. I have joined and will keep an eye there! :up:

[Hinrich Schwab]

This will be of interest to you

http://www.u-boot-hahd.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=315

Joined the forum.

[GreyIron]

I also have joined ....and I would be a supporter to any subsim project if it shall develop:up:.

[Muki]

Just be very meticulous and careful guys, and plan everything way, way ahead before you start. Over the years, so many talented people have left their mark on the games as modders, no doubt such a project has a very real chance of getting completed. But remember, when making a game not only developing talent is needed but some kind of management too!
I'd rather wait patiently for a long, long time to get the ultimate game then to face a disappointing end product earlier.

[Sea Demon]

Modern Sub Warfare or WW2? If Modern...Diesels or Nukes? LA Class, Virginia, Seawolf, Akula, or Kilo? If WW2, Atlantic or Pacific Theater? Balao or Porpoise? Type II or Type VII? Type IV??? Opposing Drivable Surface Units?

[Diablo2]

Got the support of my pocketbook.

[theroc44]

Hello all, i would most def be interested. I have been craving a sub sim that does justice for years. A few came close. But i digress and would surely be interested.

[aanker]

So you're a mind reader? I've been having this same idea and brought it up on FB.

I am definitely in once there are enough people to raise the funding.

I don't know how much it would cost but if Subsim members want another Sub sim I think this Kickstarter idea is the only way we are going to see it.

Happy Hunting!

Art

[h.sie]

this was my hope, but i fear they'll never finish......

http://dangerdeep.sourceforge.net/gallery/

[aanker]

h.sie wrote:
"this was my hope, but i fear they'll never finish......"

Yep, been following DangerDeep for many years, they seem to be plugging along in spurts. I hoped they would get something going and after perfecting their U-Boats in the Atlantic, add the Pacific Theatre, however the biggest news from my perspective is that I keep getting older.... lol

Happy Hunting!

Art

[SilentOtto]

I am happy to see I'm not alone in this ;)

[makman94]

this was my hope, but i fear they'll never finish......

http://dangerdeep.sourceforge.net/gallery/

so right H.Sie ! this was my hope too ,have totally forgot it.they were doing so fine (really fine) work so far .
if they are around somewhere....maybe there is still hope with some additional help by us
will try to contact them

[h.sie]

maybe there is still hope with some additional help by us will try to contact them

in case you include me by saying "us", I must say that don't have any free time ATM.

[makman94]

in case you include me by saying "us", I must say that don't have any free time ATM.

It must be my english H.Sie,
i quoted you just becuase i agree with your comment about the work of the guys at 'Danger From The Deep'.

about the rest of my post:
by 'us' i don't mean ('include') you or any other specific person.
by 'us' i mean whoever subsimer can and have the willness to join in case the guys of 'Danger From The Deep' are around too and interested.
nobody is doing anything without his willness ...i think that this is...common sense (thats why i didn't mention it)

[USS Virginia]

I just asked the developer "Graviteam" to help us. Graviteam is a very very nice team. We will see their reply :03:

See: http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=10778.0

[SilentOtto]

Let's see what they answer ;)

I still think crowd funding would be the way to go here. If we get a critical mass of possible users, and a willing developer, we could start a "promotion campaign" around the web, and get an online funding project going. Imagine having a sim with the capacities of SH5, but developed with a compromise to release an API and using standard and open definitions for every object inside it!!

Kickstarter worked for Al Lowe and Leisure Suit Larry (another franchise ruined by corporate stupidity), I do not see any reason why not. I would donate. A Subsim.com brand simulation would be just the thing [...]

A subsim.com branded simulation would be... sim heaven! :)


AND a note to any MOD reading this: Maybe this thread should be moved to indie games.

[USS Virginia]

I just asked the developer "Graviteam" to help us. Graviteam is a very very nice team. We will see their reply :03:

See: http://graviteam.com/forum/index.php?topic=10778.0
Their reply is self-evident:
Sorry I dont know about another devs
We hypothetical can take the course. But the question here in the costs, and since we have to postpone their projects, the costs must be considerable.
Do we have the money? :D

[USS Virginia]

I asked them how many time and money they need if they accept the project. I asked them if they know a publisher who can accept to paid them to develop a submersible simulation.

We need to find money or a publisher... But the publisher is the evil.

I am afraid we don't have a solution.

[Julhelm]

Kickstarter or Indiegogo. And there are publishers who publish "niche" games like Paradox (NWAC among others), 2K Games (XCOM turnbased squad strategy) and Focus Home Interactive (Wargame European Escalation). Someone also publishes all those wierd eurosims like Farming Simulator or City Bus Simulator that are immensely popular. I guess that's the sort of publishers to hit with a subsim pitch.

[USS Virginia]

Graviteam asks me the requirements and features - what we need. What battle theaters, how many ships and submarines, other vehicles and machinery, the surroundings, the interior of boats, etc.

A good english speaker can write a good post to describe SH3 and all the amelioration we want?

Thanks!

[Sonarman]

It's great that Graviteam are actually interested and taking this seriously, most large game companies probably wouldn't even respond.

Another alternative maybe to approach Ilan Papini developer of the Virtual Sailor series which already has good environments, weather, ocean etc and is fairly easy for the "average Joe" to add models/units to. We could ask him funded via kickstarter to add in the additional technologies eg sonar, radar, hedgehog ,aa guns, depth charges etc needed to turn VS into a WWII subsim. His strength is probably not in enemy AI as he is not a game developer per se but it could work as purely a multiplayer game with subs, destroyers & convoys all under user control with the addition of the technology of the time.

This old thread (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=169144&highlight=graviteam) of mine may also add some ideas into the mix.

[Julhelm]

Maybe it would be best to look at Graviteams existing catalogue and then work out a set of requirements that fits the tech they're using? If they do something, it's probably not going to look much better than SH3 so pitching what essentially amounts to SH3-redux makes little sense. A game that combines Aces of the Deep with Silent Hunter 1 would be more interesting, but that's just my $.02

[Blacklight]

This is a great idea. I think the time is ripe that we need a new "Dangerous Waters" with the features that WE want implemented. I don't see a modern hardcore subsim (with surface and air unit playables as well) released by a game company ever again. If we're going to get a next generation Dangerous Waters, we're going to have to make it ourselves.

I say that we need a new Dangerous Waters because 99% of the subsims out there are WWII ones. You hardly EVER see anything for modern platforms out there.

[SilentOtto]

I think the basic idea is the sim we want has to be moddable by definition... In such a case I think it would be feasible to turn it into a wwi, wwii or cold war sim, if we (well, the modding community :salute:) could easily add new units and new weapons. With an adequate and open framework, the community could take the sim anywhere!

Maybe we can reach an amount of users interested and start a new project!

[SilentOtto]

It's great that Graviteam are actually interested and taking this seriously, most large game companies probably wouldn't even respond.

Another alternative maybe to approach Ilan Papini developer of the Virtual Sailor series which already has good environments, weather, ocean etc and is fairly easy for the "average Joe" to add models/units to. We could ask him funded via kickstarter to add in the additional technologies eg sonar, radar, hedgehog ,aa guns, depth charges etc needed to turn VS into a WWII subsim. His strength is probably not in enemy AI as he is not a game developer per se but it could work as purely a multiplayer game with subs, destroyers & convoys all under user control with the addition of the technology of the time.

This old thread (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=169144&highlight=graviteam) of mine may also add some ideas into the mix.

Hey that thread is full of good info, you had done your homework there! :up:
Am reading it now, I so hope we can get somewhere with this idea.

Because, if not us... who? :ping: