[REL] Hydrophones workaround...

[Rubini]

Last Update Version 2.0
-Fixed the absence of sounds on hydro station for some layers. Brilliant solution found by gap (from Sh5 mod forum)!
(see below some directions and comments)

See also, on the botton, an optional reworked version by Leitender.

From the readme of the mod:


==========================================
18/02/2013
New Sh3 Hyprophones layers by Rubini v2.0
==========================================
What this mod do?
- it adds three "max distance range" layers for each hydrophone type.

How it works?
- the idea is simple, each hydrophone type have now three hydro sensors, each one work on a determinated depth layer, so, now, you will need to have this behaviour in mind when searching for sound contacts as in real life!

How/what are the layers?
1. from surfaced (in truth -4 to -9, to avoid hydro contact on surface) to -15m: 12.000m
2. from -15 to -25m: 20.000m
3. from -25m to deep: 28000 to 30.000m (different for each hydro type)
==> The overall idea: go deep to have more chance to detect sounds!!

Any problem or limitation that I must know?
- Yes. Please read carefully:

1. All the below are stock SH3 engine behaviours (not a mod flaw):
- the "follow next contact" will only works if the contact is lesser than 25km
- the "report next contact" will always works since you already have made a contact (not limited by the 25km above issue)
- in hydro station the player can always listen until the Sh3 world limit (more or less 35km away), but the AI crew will be always limited by the hydro sensors settings.
- the decay time of a contact can maintain the contact lines and reports by the ai even if the contact is out of the hydro layer sensor buble for some time.

2. mod limitation:
- besides the hydro layers works correctly for Ai crew, it not works for player; as exposed above, the player can always listen contacts from 35km to 0km (stock behaviour), not limited by the layers and depth. Anyhow this not affect the mod on a real game session, you just must know that you always can listen, not limited by the layers depth. So, try to not cheat, or just don´t use this mod.


How to install:
- choose your version (or customize it) and install using JSGME.

Last words:
- I already provided a a bit more reactive and less deaf sonarman. Anyway you can customize it as exposed below.
- From GHG to Balcom, the hydro sensors have a bit more max range and are a bit more sensible too. Now is a very good idea to upgrade your hydrophone.
- Some randomness is always present, so the detection distances will vary randomically with certain conditions. (stock Sh3 behaviour)

Credits:
- TheBeast and Xrundel, the idea and similar mod for Sh5, from where I got the idea.
- gap for the fix for hydro station sound.

Good Hunt!
Rubini.
================================================== ============
Version history:
update 18/02/2013
version 2.0
- Fixed the hydro station without sound for the player in some layers.
Thanks to gap (from Sh5 mod forum) that found the solution.
================================
update 14/03/2012
Version1.1a
-adjusted the bearing on the first sensorsdata from both balkonGerat, thanks h.sie!
================================
Update 13/03/2012
Vesion 1.1

- adjusted the MaxSensorHeight for each hydro type to be 2m height to allow detection after 10-11m deep
- if you start to receive hydro detections when surfaced (more probably in bad wheater, big waves) just put them 2m more below again or use version 1.0
================================
07/03/2012
first realse v1.0
================================================== ============

**Spoiler**

Can I customize this mod?

- Yes, I made it with this idea in mind. Just open the new sensors.cam file with s3d, I make it easy to find each hydro type inside and then you can modify it at your taste.

Here some comments of the SensorsData main parameters that you may want change (the others try to left intact):

MaxHeight= Here you can make /change yours own layers . The last node is for the first layer, it is there to avoid surface hydrophone detection (this may vary accordingly the hydro type).

RPMDetLevel=0,20 this is far the most important factor, for example if a max velocity (note: not RPM in truth) from a ship is 35knots, then any velocity below 0.2x35 will not be detected on hydro (for this ship and so on). This can show how Sh3 engine is broken...a war ship below 7knots is not detectable but a small fishboat at 1.7knot is detectable (0.2x8knots=1.6)!!! Stock bug/design. So, the lesser this value, more things will be listen. Also - when the game detect ships on the boderline of this value, the contact can comes and go, comes and go, and so on.

SweepPeriod=25,0 the time needed to a complete check on that arc. The lowered value, more awake will be the sonarman, more quickly (and then more times) it will check that arc.

ProbInsideArc=0,95 the probability of detection inside that arc, for each pass. The major, more probability to detect.

So, with the above, is easy to see how to make the sonarman more awake, how to raise the detection probability, how to make the sonarman less deaf, etc!

- If you have a modded sensors.dat and don´t want to use the one that comes with the mod, then just do the follow:

1. make sure to delete each "SensorData" controller from each hydro type on your own sensors.dat using S3D (1 per hydro type on sensors.dat).

2. also delete the sensors.dat that come with this mod - will use only the new "sensors.cam" file, it´s in truth the same for the three versions (GWX,NYGM,WAC).

In the end, you will have your own sensors.dat (without any SensorsData controller for hydrophones) and the Sensors.cam from this mod. This is enough to go!

================================================== ============
================================================== ============


Link to download (after decompress choose accordingly)
Version 2.0
New_Hydrophones_layersV2.0.7z (http://www.mediafire.com/download/q8fzs78u03t8wbl/New_Hydrophones_layersV2.0.7z)


Update 09 april 2014
Leitender made a reworked version with few more historical adjusts.
More detailed info on the readme.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/50....0_reworked.7z

[bigboywooly]

Hmmmm sounds interesting Rubini
Look forward to giving it a try
Nice to see you still tinkering with the files :yeah:

[irish1958]

I also are very interested. I have been unable to get into SH5. You will have to give us some insight.

[brett25]

that would be an excellent and well needed mod:salute:

[Rubini]

Thanks guys!
@ How are you BBW? Nice to see you!

The mod is ready!

I just need the unmodded (and more actual) sensors.dat from GWX, from NYGM and from WAC.
I don´t have them and need them to make the mod compatible.

Can someone give me a link with them?

[brett25]

rubini, heres NYGM sensors:

http://www.gamefront.com/files/21406277/NYGM.zip

:salute:

[Rubini]

rubini, heres NYGM sensors:

http://www.gamefront.com/files/21406268/NYGM.7z

:salute:
Thanks! just waiting for wac and GWx3.0 then.

[Rubini]

"file not found"?

===============

Forget , got it!

I was too quick!

[Victor Schutze]

Brilliant idea! :yeah:

My mod soup is gonna be yummy. ;)

[brett25]

Thanks! just waiting for wac and GWx3.0 then.

one thing is some of the sensors.dat are for 8K, 16K, or 20K enviornments Will you have to make different versions for this mod?

[Rubini]

one thing is some of the sensors.dat are for 8K, 16K, or 20K enviornments Will you have to make different versions for this mod?

My idea is to release for 16km of each big mod only
I made a "how to" easy instruction on the readme to allow to anyone uses it own modded sensors.dat too. :up:

The NYGM version is ready...just waiting for the others two sensors.dat file!

[Fubar2Niner]

@Rubini

Hells bells mate, this sounds great :yeah:

Best regards.

Fubar2Niner

[Rubini]

Ok, makman provide me the files, now I can finish the mod!:up:

[brett25]

:woot::woot:

[Rubini]

Mod ready, first post updated with the link!

Good hunting, kaleuns!
All feedback is welcome!

@Moderators: can you change the thread title accordingly the title of the first post with that [REL] at first? Thanks!:up:

[brett25]

thanks rubini, will report back soon:salute:

[Borgneface]

Ahoy Rubini,

This mod sounds really great.....The hydrophone was always my "favorite" and any mod for it is welcome!:D
I will of course give feed back ..

Thank you :up:

[Fubar2Niner]

@Rubini

Thanks mate d/l'ing now, can't play till w/end tho unfortunately :damn:

Will report back with findings asap :salute:

Best regards.

Fubar2Niner

[LGN1]

Hi Rubini,

nice mod :up:

Just a small question: Why does the first SensorData has a MinSensorHeight of -500 and not -15 (max. depth of the second SensorData)? :hmmm:

Regards, LGN1

[Rubini]

Hi Rubini,

nice mod :up:

Just a small question: Why does the first SensorData has a MinSensorHeight of -500 and not -15 (max. depth of the second SensorData)? :hmmm:

Regards, LGN1

Yeah! This is where the cat lives. I can exply...but try to think how the whole mod works and you will see that it will not work this way. Even the second sensordata MinSensorHeigh can be -500 too without problems...:know:

[Leitender]

Did a small test with a TypVII-Boat and two destroyers at a distance of 16km and 24km. Before Rubins mod was installed, the far away being DD was detected within a few minutes at periscope depth at a range of 24.6km:

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/9431/sh32012031309301742.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/27/sh32012031309301742.jpg/)

After installing Rubinis Mod, the following happened:

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/4443/sh32012031309410688.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/515/sh32012031309410688.jpg/)

No detection at all at periscope depth. Diving to 17m, sonar guy discovered a contact at 14.2 km:

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8114/sh32012031309422550.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/6/sh32012031309422550.jpg/)

Rising back to P-depth led to contact lost:

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/9581/sh32012031309435451.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/607/sh32012031309435451.jpg/)

Back to 17m, 2 contacts were discovered, the farer away at a range of 17.2km

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/5185/sh32012031309450742.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/404/sh32012031309450742.jpg/)

Back to P-depth both contact lines were disappearing time after time because contact was lost:

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/9914/sh32012031309452553.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/403/sh32012031309452553.jpg/)

At a second test i went to P-depth, no detecting, then to 17m, first contact was found at approx. 14km and at last going down to 30m. At 27m the second destroyer was discovered at a distance of 24.4km:

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9762/sh32012031309500452.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/204/sh32012031309500452.jpg/)

This is a wonderful mod an i love to see it working it although i used to go to 30m all the time when listening around. But now i know it has a benefit. Great. On the other hand, in shallow water, we have to be aware that hydrophon range is restricted to a range eventually shorter than sight! So sometimes our hydrophone is getting rather useless. Thank you very much, Rubini.

[Rubini]

Thanks by the feedback Leitender,

The mod was made with the intention to have contacts after 10-11m (a short one at this depth).

What type of hydro are you using on your test mission (i mean, GHG, KDB or Balcon)? Probably was the KDB because I made it a bit "deep" because it is at up deck but the game don't uses the boat depth but the object itself. I guess that you understand my point.

I will release a new version with corrected shallow min heigh and please test it again. In some hours today.:up:

[Leitender]

Hello Rubini,

thank you for your answer. I will look for the kind of hydrophone tonight, when i´m at home, but i believe you´re right with your KDB asumption, because it was a Type VIIB boat and the testing date was 09/43. We will see.

Concerning your second sentence, i think you mean the difference between "Minheight" and "MinSensorheight, do you?

For me everything worked as expected, one meter above or below isn´t that important imho, but of course i will test your new version. Just tell me what i have to pay attention for. I Would be glad to give you some "input" after all that work you did for this game.

Yours, sincerly

Leitender

[h.sie]

I just finished to set up my 'final' sh3-installation for seriously playing - and now you come with a new idea. That is not fair. :DL.

Is it final or in development?

[Rubini]

I just finished to set up my 'final' sh3-installation for seriously playing - and now you come with a new idea. That is not fair. :DL.

Is it final or in development?

Hi h.sie,
Nice to "see" you mate!

I just release the version 1.1, i guess that it´s the final version, check on the first post!
Here what was changed:

Update 13/03/2012
Vesion 1.1

- adjusted the MaxSensorHeight for each hydro type to be 2m height to allow detection after 10-11m deep

- if you start to receive hydro detections when surfaced (more probably in bad wheater, big waves) just put them 2m more below again or use version 1.0

===============================================

Seems that some of the hydro aren´t detecting when in PD at all. This isn´t a fault of this mod, because in version one I just used the same values in question that are in the big mods. This adjust was made years ago to avoid hydro detection when surfaced...but perhaps it was a bit too much. I just put all them 2m heigh in version 1.1.

So, now we have 2 versions that are the same, just this MaxSensorHeight on the first sensorsdata for each hydro that was changed as explained above.:up:

[Rubini]

Hello Rubini,

thank you for your answer. I will look for the kind of hydrophone tonight, when i´m at home, but i believe you´re right with your KDB asumption, because it was a Type VIIB boat and the testing date was 09/43. We will see.

Concerning your second sentence, i think you mean the difference between "Minheight" and "MinSensorheight, do you?

For me everything worked as expected, one meter above or below isn´t that important imho, but of course i will test your new version. Just tell me what i have to pay attention for. I Would be glad to give you some "input" after all that work you did for this game.

Yours, sincerly

Leitender
Thanks again by the comment mate!
Yes, I wrote a wrong sentence, forget Minheight" and "MinSensorheight, the correct should be "MaxSensorHeight". Now, reading your first post more carefully I saw that in any moment you tested a ship less than 12km away, so I should not have the conclusion that something was wrong with the mod/hydro MaxSensorHeight, probably it was not.

I´m not playing SH3 latelly (I´m messing with Sh5 a bit!:DL), anyway i released a version 1.1 where i made the MaxSensorHeight 2m height for each hydro. So, now we have 2 working versions, one with the same values with the super mods and the new one with a bit more sensible in PD.

Sorry by the confusion...it was the first time that i made a mod without being playing the game:damn::D

[Leitender]

Hi Rubini,

i just reviewed my setting, but it must have been an GHG hydrophone. In my currently used basic.cfg, delivered with Testpilots great Type VIIB Mod, hydrophone standard equipment is "1270" for every year, which is determined as GHG at the bottom of this cfg file.

I also took a look at the foredeck, but no KDB device was mounted:

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/7955/sh32012031400525675.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/94/sh32012031400525675.jpg/)

At last, i could have proved to have a GHG immediatly, because i had to turn my boat to get contact to the DD directly ahead of me, because of the deaf area of the GHG around the bow:

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/8885/sh32012031400520739.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/831/sh32012031400520739.jpg/)

Generations of SH3 beginners (including me) claimed this effect to be a bug without knowing anything about the geometric restrictions of this hydrophone...:damn:

To come back to what you wrote: I´m not sure if i understood completely what you meant: in my tests no ship was at a distance closer than 12km. I did not test this because i thought within this distance a ship always is to be discovered, even when using your mod and being in shallow depth?

I did another test with your 1.0 version which showed a ship´s contact by GHG at periscope depth closer than 12km:

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/1995/sh32012031401315773.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/196/sh32012031401315773.jpg/)


To another ship at a distance of little bit more than 12km, contact was lost after rising to PD from a deeper depth of approx 17m:

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/4070/sh32012031401353000.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/820/sh32012031401353000.jpg/)

So in the end, it seems to me that version 1.0 works perfectly how you described it and how i expected it. :hmmm:

Greetings

[Rubini]

Thanks again Leitender,

Yes, GHG is blind (I mean deaf:DL) in some degrees in front of and at the back too, this was historically correct.

And good to know that also version 1.0 is working...anyway version 1.1 is released and will stay as an option if someone have no detection at PD at all.:up:


==========================================

@LGN1
Now some more info on how the mod works (a LGN1 request):

1. As you know it adds 3 SensorsData layer for each hydro type,
2. Each layer was setted to a restrict MaxSensorHeight (first layer -3m kDB to -9m GHG, second layer -15, third layer -25).
3. The MinSensorHeight is always -500 (at least for the first and the last layer). Here is the trick.
4. We must think that the correct could be each layer be this way: first, let´s say -6 to -15, second -15 to -25, third -25 to -500. But this way it will not work WELL at all.
5. If we use the segmented approach as exposed above, when the player comes from a depth from another the hydro sensors will be reseted (on and off) and then a gap - sometimes small, sometimes big - will appears for the same contact (as a new contact need to be made for the new sensorsdata in use). It will work, but with gaps.
6. So, with the solution in use we will have smooth depth layers contacts!

LOL! Isn´t easy to explain how a trick issue works with my poor english!

[brett25]

hi rubini, can confirm similar resuts. At 30-40meters depth hydrophones work well w with decreasing effectiveness as your reach periscope depth. Also, when listening at sonar station nothing is heard, then sounds start getting oucked up as depth increases. Im not sure if a bug, but contacts seem to show on the nav map regardless of depth chages. I have to test this further:salute:

[Borgneface]

Salut! Rubini,

A bit later than the others, but as promised I confirm that your mod does what it says in the read me!
I was going to post a more detailed result but after what our collegues Kaleun just did...I do not think I can add anything
:Kaleun_Applaud:

[Rubini]

hi rubini, can confirm similar resuts. At 30-40meters depth hydrophones work well w with decreasing effectiveness as your reach periscope depth. Also, when listening at sonar station nothing is heard, then sounds start getting oucked up as depth increases. Im not sure if a bug, but contacts seem to show on the nav map regardless of depth chages. I have to test this further:salute:

@Borgneface, brett
Thanks by the feedback mates!

@brett25: the persistent contact in nav map is a default sh3 behaviour, this is by a setting on sensors.cfg, I don't recall now the correct name, but its the last one on Hydrophone section and is setted, IIRC, to 150. Try using something like 5 and your hydro contact will draw of few seconds after you lose contact.

[LGN1]

Hi Rubini,

thanks for your explanation :up: The basic idea of this mod offers many new possibilities. First, I'm thinking about adding a new short range sector to the KDB in my private setup (around the stern). It annoys me that the KDB does not work around 180° when I'm slow and deep (when being hunted). I don't think the hydrophone operator would loose a close contact in this sector when the boat is deep and silent-running.

Second, if I'm not wrong, this allows to model Allied hydrophone and ASDIC sensors in much higher detail (e.g., high sensitivity for short ranges, short range sensors with high angles, long range sensors with small angles,...)

Thanks again for sharing the mod, Rubini :yeah:

Regards, LGN1

[Leitender]

the persistent contact in nav map is a default sh3 behaviour, this is by a setting on sensors.cfg, I don't recall now the correct name, but its the last one on Hydrophone section and is setted, IIRC, to 150. Great! A small explanation for a master but a big step for a player. Finally i got the meaning of this line:

Hydrophone decay time=150 ;[>0] already tracking bonus decay, in secondsand i understand why my hydrophone man could follow a target directly ahead of my boat although it should be within the deaf zone. Why did the devs put in this decay time?

[brett25]

this allows to model Allied hydrophone and ASDIC sensors in much higher detail


LGN1, this is an excellent idea:yeah:

[Rubini]

LGN1, this is an excellent idea:yeah:

Exactly! Yes, this mod shows that multiple sensorsdata can be given to probably any sensors on Sh3, allowing for new and more deep serious play.
Waiting for new mods, LGN1!:up:
(I´m so much envolved with Sh5 for now)

[Sepp von Ch.]

Hello, I have GWX and in my mod soup will this mod overwrite Sensors.dat in FM30 upd_down final mod and Aces Multimod Compatibility fix release 1.3.

Should I overwrite these mods?

[Rubini]

A side note:

h.sie just noticed that I made a mistake with the first SensorsData for both BalkonGerat bearing values (because when making the mod I Copy&Paste datas from GHG and forget to adjust the bearings:damn:). So here a correct bearing values for each hydro type to avoid confusion (values not only for realistic side but also for playabiliy):


Balkon Gerat:
0/170 190/360


KDB:
0/160 200/360

GHG
10/150 210/350


I will reupload the mod with the correction explained above in few minutes.
So, or correct it by yourself or download the mod again. Sorry!:D

[Rubini]

Hello, I have GWX and in my mod soup will this mod overwrite Sensors.dat in FM30 upd_down final mod and Aces Multimod Compatibility fix release 1.3.

Should I overwrite these mods?

No. If you overwrite you will loose something. Try to adjust your own sensors.dat in use. I provide an easy step to step on how to do this on the readme of the mod and also on the first post.

[Sepp von Ch.]

OK. Thanks Rubini.

[fitzcarraldo]

Dear Rubini: Your modified sensors.dat: Is the vanilla sensors or GWX? And if it is GWX: 8 k or 16 k?

I will make the modifications in the sensors.dat of my MEPv3 installation for GWX.

Many thanks and regards!

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[Rubini]

Dear Rubini: Your modified sensors.dat: Is the vanilla sensors or GWX? And if it is GWX: 8 k or 16 k?

I will make the modifications in the sensors.dat of my MEPv3 installation for GWX.

Many thanks and regards!

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

Humm...good question! Was Makman that provide me the GWX file...but I´m almost sure that it is the 16km...we must ask him...:hmmm:

But if you have any other mod that already modifies your sensors.dat i suggest that you use your actual one, directions on the first post

@ALL: just updated the mod with the corrected BalkonGerat bearings. Version 1.0a and 1.1a.

[Leitender]

Dear Rubini: Your modified sensors.dat: Is the vanilla sensors or GWX? And if it is GWX: 8 k or 16 k?Hi,
this sensor.dat is based on GWX-16km. Compare e.g. Metox range 22000m (stock 4000m) and visual sensor 16000m (stock 8000m).

[fitzcarraldo]

Humm...good question! Was Makman that provide me the GWX file...but I´m almost sure that it is the 16km...we must ask him...:hmmm:

But if you have any other mod that already modifies your sensors.dat i suggest that you use your actual one, directions on the first post

@ALL: just updated the mod with the corected BalkonGerat bearings. Version 1.0a and 1.1a.


Many thanks, Rubini!

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[Rubini]

Hi,
this sensor.dat is based on GWX-16km. Compare e.g. Metox range 22000m (stock 4000m) and visual sensor 16000m (stock 8000m).

Thanks again Leitender!

[Leitender]

You´re welcome, Rubini :up:

[makman94]

absolutely wonderfull idea and mod Rubini :yeah:

thank you very much for sharing this with us !

you said that this can be done for AI hydro and sonars too ? maybe radars too?

if yes ....then combined with Olagamato's new findings at sonars - hydros ,Stiebler's addition for shallow waters and with the correct visual sensors that we now have at our 'weapons storeage' i think that it is time to start creating the Ultimate Community Sensors Pack (UCSP) for both own crew and AI .

[makman94]

Hi,
this sensor.dat is based on GWX-16km. Compare e.g. Metox range 22000m (stock 4000m) and visual sensor 16000m (stock 8000m).

there is no gwx-8km or gwx-16km Sensors.dat

it is just this : Sensors.dat (file date: 14/11/2007)

[Leitender]

there is no gwx-8km or gwx-16km Sensors.dat

it is just this : Sensors.dat (file date: 14/11/2007)

There are 2 atmosphere sets in GWX: 8km and 16km. This Sensors.dat only fits more or less to the 16km atmo because of the visual settings.

I´m also reworking all the sensor data, to fit the sensors correctly to 16km atmosphere, so maybe the work is doubled to olamagato´s research.

Rubini

I just installed your mod in my personal optimized sensor mod. In case of publishing this, may i use your mod with it?

[Rubini]

There are 2 atmosphere sets in GWX: 8km and 16km. This Sensors.dat only fits more or less to the 16km atmo because of the visual settings.

I´m also reworking all the sensor data, to fit the sensors correctly to 16km atmosphere, so maybe the work is doubled to olamagato´s research.

Rubini

I just installed your mod in my personal optimized sensor mod. In case of publishing this, may i use your mod with it?
Of course. All my mods are openned to the comunity. Just give the propers credits and it's enough.:up:

[Rubini]

absolutely wonderfull idea and mod Rubini :yeah:

thank you very much for sharing this with us !

you said that this can be done for AI hydro and sonars too ? maybe radars too?

if yes ....then combined with Olagamato's new findings at sonars - hydros ,Stiebler's addition for shallow waters and with the correct visual sensors that we now have at our 'weapons storeage' i think that it is time to start creating the Ultimate Community Sensors Pack (UCSP) for both own crew and AI .

Yes,this could be a very good idea. And I'm sure that LGN1 can give a hand or at least a lot of good ideas.:up:

[h.sie]

Rubini, your sensors.dat file is no more compatible to the sabotage & malfunction of Sh3-Cmdr, because S3D added some extra text in the author chunk, what leads to a change of the hex positions of all values. contact me if you are interested in how to make it compatible

[Rubini]

Rubini, your sensors.dat file is no more compatible to the sabotage & malfunction of Sh3-Cmdr, because S3D added some extra text in the author chunk, what leads to a change of the hex positions of all values. contact me if you are interested in how to make it compatible

Yes, all files that are saved by S3D will modify any mod (as sabotage) that uses hex adresses as a main direction. They all need to be "redone". Also others files that have new nodes/chunks/labels, etc will mess the sabotage mod. As we are always messing with mods so i give up sabotage mod for now ... perhaps one day in future when we stop to mod this &%**%$ game!:DL

Anyway, just deleting the author chunk new bytes is enough or S3D also changes anything more? (I mean some type of signature that mess with hex adresses too?)

[h.sie]

@rubini: yes, it's enough to delete the extra bytes from the author chunk.

how i do it: after every use of S3D, i load both the modded and an unmodded sensor.dat file into a hex editor and compare the first 0xD0 bytes of them. simply by visually comparing both files you'll see which bytes must be deleted.

after that, i reload the edited file into S3D again (without saving) in order to make sure it isn't corrupted.

[Rubini]

@rubini: yes, it's enough to delete the extra bytes from the author chunk.

how i do it: after every use of S3D, i load both the modded and an unmodded sensor.dat file into a hex editor and compare the first 0xD0 bytes of them. simply by visually comparing both files you'll see which bytes must be deleted.

after that, reload the edited file into S3D again (without saving) in order to make sure it isn't corrupted.
Thanks by the tip mate!
Btw, about ower last mail, I guess that you have noticed the last 1.xa vesion of this mod wich have all bearings corrected.:up:

[h.sie]

Yes I did, thank you for the update

[SquareSteelBar]

@rubini: yes, it's enough to delete the extra bytes from the author chunk...IIRC you've also to change the chunk size byte otherwise S3D [and SH3] won't load the [corrupted] file.

http://www.pic-upload.de/view-13388049/000.jpg.htmlhttp://www.pic-upload.de/view-13388049/000.jpghttp://www.pic-upload.de/view-13388049/000.jpg.htmlhttp://www7.pic-upload.de/18.03.12/cwaf6yjjwjwz.jpghttp://www7.pic-upload.de/thumb/18.03.12/mquj11bzeeeu.jpg (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-13388144/000.jpg.html)

After deletion of the highlighted 71 bytes it is essential to change the chunk size byte from 76 to 2F

Dez: 118 - 71 = 47

Hex: 76 - 47 = 2F

[h.sie]

@SSB: Where is the chunk size byte located? Close to the chunk itself, or at a totally different location?

I ask, because I had no problems so far with the way I described, maybe because I also copied the size chunk.

[SquareSteelBar]

Post #56 edited...

[h.sie]

@SSB: thanks for the clarification. So I luckily also copied the size byte.

[Leitender]

Hi Rubini,

i´m sorry for going back to the item, and hopefully i won´t annoy you:

I´m a big fan of your earlier stay_alert_crew fix and i used it for years. For me, your settings 24km, 25km resp. 26km for GHG, KDB resp. Balkon was not only very helpful for the player but also well-balanced to the crew´s und to the player´s ability. Furthermore these values stood in a fair relation to the enemy´s abilities, namely to its radars. Being very short at the beginning, allied radar became the most importent sensor with the best range at all by the end of the war.

Now, your new settings are 28km, 29km and 30km for the german underwater sensors. My question is which reason do you have for these new settings? Are they only for the player´s joy, did you feel they were minor ingame or do you have maybe new knowledge about the ranges?

There are some sources in the internet that report a range of 20km against single ships and up to 80km against convoys, measured by the US-military using the captured U-505. I only saw one single german historical source, K.z.S. Giesler´s paper given at the OKM conference 09./10.03.44 :

http://www.cdvandt.org/okm-tagung_1944.htm (Chapter11)

(btw. great site about techniques and research of german military)

In this paper, Giesler mentioned a range of the GHG of only 10km. Later, he talked about a variation of 30% to 300% (i.e. 3km up to 30km) depending on environmental circumstances. Of course i don´t know if these value are downsized as protection against enemy espionage, but if they were true, wouldn´t your mod´s value be a little bit, say "uber"?

Sorry for this long post, but i wanted to explain my intents, and not criticize your work. Your answer would be really appriciated! Thanks in advance,

Greetings

[Rubini]

Leitender,

I´m very proud that you yet use so old mod (i use it too!). The stay alert crew mod was one of the most balanced sensors mod to date. I will reply you more carefully asap...I´m now for the first time, having success in making scripts for SH3 and just now make my fiirst real success...so i will finish something there first and will come here to reply to you.:up:

[Leitender]

Fine. I´ll wait for your reply. Thank you for your time.
Greetings.

[LGN1]

Hi all,

I've tried to add new sensor data to the AI_Sensors.dat, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to work :down: It seems that the game uses only the first sensor data :-?

Regards, LGN1

[Rubini]

Hi all,

I've tried to add new sensor data to the AI_Sensors.dat, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to work :down: It seems that the game uses only the first sensor data :-?

Regards, LGN1
Thats is odd...sh3 is really full of traps.:damn:
Thanks to share mate!

[Leitender]

LGN1:

You must also create a new sensor (e.g. R02 for a Radar system which differentiates in range between planes and ships) to the ship´s sns-file AND create a new cfg-node to the ship´s dat-file. Compare it to the existing sensors an you will see.

Rubini:

May i ask again for the reason why you increased hydrophone range in that way? Thank you very much.

[Rubini]

LGN1:

You must also create a new sensor (e.g. R02 for a Radar system which differentiates in range between planes and ships) to the ship´s sns-file AND create a new cfg-node to the ship´s dat-file. Compare it to the existing sensors an you will see.

Rubini:

May i ask again for the reason why you increased hydrophone range in that way? Thank you very much.
Yes, you can!:DL
Ok, on the Stay Alert crew sensors mod I limited the Hydro max range by the motives wrotes on the readme: Sh3 allow you to listen until 30km (not more) but the sonarman only can follow sound contacts in distances lower than 25km. This is why i opted to max ranges lower than 25km in that mod. But now, after have played SH5 a bit (which have the same limitations) but major stock hydro distances, i liked the idea to have more long range hydro detections anyway (more yet after this "layers" workaround). I guess that it add to game play, (more contacts, more fun:DL), although taking in mind the above explained limitations. So, in the end: just taste!:up:

[makman94]

Hi all,

I've tried to add new sensor data to the AI_Sensors.dat, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to work :down: It seems that the game uses only the first sensor data :-?

Regards, LGN1

oh well...with also LGN1 in this,i feel even more secure ! i see the community 'closing' to a project that always wanted: good working sensors !

just a note guys : setting ranges to follow realistic values will not make the game better...on the contrary ! some radars had ability to spot a ship from 40km in real life so what will you do ? set this radar to 40km ? will be a disaster for gameplay
my opinion is that the proposions must be 'kept' to all sensors starting ,as reference point, from the max visuality range at clear day (and then adjusting accordinally all other sensors).as this is 'limited' to 20km or 16km (availiable enviros) then all the sensors must 'follow' analogicaly this limitation and ,by this way, will 'mirroring' a smaller model of the real world.

very interesting theme here !

[Leitender]

Hi Rubini,

thank you very much for your extensive reply. makman´s objection also was my thought when i remembered the other sensors, esp. visuals and radars. On the other hand, sensors with a wider range than player´s visibility although work.

Another thing is: I cannot say for sure, but is there maybe the sensor for Balkongerät_TypeXXI missing in your .cam-file? In the original sensors.dat, you´ll find it quite at the end of the file.

Let me also tell you that i made some tests with the MaxSensorHeight value. First i checked the original GWX data (GHG -8m, KDB -3m, Balkon -9m), then i built in each sensor one by one and tested at which depth i could use the hydrophone. Surprising result: For each hydro i got more or less the same depth: between 9.5m and 11m. So i set Maxsensorheight=0 for Balkon, because in real life the boats could use this hydro when surfaced, but no change: The hydrophon man began its work at a 10m depth. My testing configuration was GWx3.0, using a TypeVIIB in 1944, exchanging the sensors by changing the corresponding basic.cfg value for the correct hydro, then sat in front of the hydro and paid attention to the depth, at which my own propeller noise could be heard and at which the "follow nearest contact" order changed from grey (inactive) to white (active) colour. Did you make similar experiences?

Greetings

[Leitender]

Hi Rubini, once again.

Bad news. There´s no sound when you hear for contacts by yourself. Your sonar man doesn´t report contacts either. "Follow nearest..." orders are inactive. All this happens though contact line is displayed at F5 map view and you can ask your hydro man for new contacts.

:hmmm:

[LGN1]

LGN1:

You must also create a new sensor (e.g. R02 for a Radar system which differentiates in range between planes and ships) to the ship´s sns-file AND create a new cfg-node to the ship´s dat-file. Compare it to the existing sensors an you will see.



Hi Leitender,

thanks for the information. Have you tried it? Does it work? I always thought the game cannot handle two radars/hydrophone/visuals,... at the same time :hmmm:

Regards, LGN1

[Rubini]

Hi Rubini, once again.

Bad news. There´s no sound when you hear for contacts by yourself. Your sonar man doesn´t report contacts either. "Follow nearest..." orders are inactive. All this happens though contact line is displayed at F5 map view and you can ask your hydro man for new contacts.

:hmmm:
AFAIK, as i said above, the sonarman only start to "follow sound contacts" order in 25km or less. The maximum player audible sounds is more or less 30km. And really I forgot the Balkon for type XXI!:damn::DL

[Wolfstriked]

Rubini...should not the dedicated sonar man be best at reading the sounds?

[Rubini]

Rubini...should not the dedicated sonar man be best at reading the sounds?
Yes, but the game is bugged. Even in stock game you can hear 30km away, but the sonarman only will "follow sound contact order" at 25km or less. A workaround to have all working accordingly is to set the maxranges for hydro to 25km...welll, you yet can hear at 30km..:DL:damn:

[Leitender]

Hi Rubini,

i regret, but my contact was only 2.5km away. And i cannot even hear my own propellers.

Greetings

[Rubini]

Hi Rubini,

i regret, but my contact was only 2.5km away. And i cannot even hear my own propellers.

Greetings
You are right!:damn:
I just make a quick run and only achieve to listen at hydro station at the most deep hydro sensor (here i could hear any sound at any distance, it´s ok...but the others two above layers are deaf for the player (the sonarman is ok). Although outside of the hydro station all works well...perhaps something more need to be done, a node, an ID, i don´t know.

I will not have free time next days, so will be good if someone more could look at this issue to see if we afind a solution.

For now, only use this mod if you don´t listen the contacts by yourself.:shifty:

[Rubini]

Made some few tests with some quick ideas...and nothing worked.:damn:
1. Added 3 new nodes per hydro on sensors.dat and then attached the SensorsData to them. - not worked
2. make all three sensorsdata have the same ID (the game runs fine for controllers, but not for nodes). not worked too.

More ideas?
(I´m editing the first post with these (bad) news.)

[Leitender]

Hi Rubini,

i´m sorry for making you concerns. The only idea i had was to attach the precise range to the maxrange value, but that didn´t work either. Here i am at the end of my abilities.

Greetings

[LGN1]

Hi Leitender,

thanks for the information. Have you tried it? Does it work? I always thought the game cannot handle two radars/hydrophone/visuals,... at the same time :hmmm:

Regards, LGN1

Hi Leitender,

could you please comment on this? Thanks!

Regards, LGN1

[Leitender]

Hi LGN1,
that was what i saw within the files about existing sensors but i didn´t test new sensors yet. Sorry for late response.
Greetings

[LGN1]

Thanks for the reply, Leitender :up:

So it's worth testing it! Let's see when I will find time.

Regards, LGN1

[Wolfstriked]

Great stuff Rubini.A question I have is about the blind spots of a hydrophone.Could you explain the arc better.Is it dumb to submerge and do a 360deg turn to ensure the blind spots are not a hindrance?

[Rubini]

Great stuff Rubini.A question I have is about the blind spots of a hydrophone.Could you explain the arc better.Is it dumb to submerge and do a 360deg turn to ensure the blind spots are not a hindrance?
IIRC, an arc is just an amount of a circular degree that is covered in a presetted time and with a probability to make a contact. It seems to me, a better option than the no arc sensors exactly because arcs have probability.

On some SH5 scripts the boat do a full stop, listen a bit, then a 45 degree turn and full stop again just to cover the blind spots. Well, this is the more realistic way, no doubt. But I didn't used this approach on my script mod at first, as this will be done in high TC and players will never noted it...I guess.

[Wolfstriked]

IIRC,an arc is just a amount of a circular degree that is covered in a presetted time and with a probability to make a contact. It seems to me, a better option than the no arc sensors exactly because arcs have probability.

On some SH5 scripts the boat do a full stop, listen a bit, then a 45 degree turn and full stop again just to cover the blind spots. Well, this is the more realistic way, no doubt. But I didn't used this approach on my script mod at first, as this will be done in high TC and players will never noted it...I guess.

So using your hydrophone mod removes the blind spots?For now,I am not using the long patrol script and wonder if you could put the arcs back for those that like to manually dive and hydro check.Or am I misunderstanding you.I am from NYC and you are from Sao Paulo so there might be a slight speech difference.

[Rubini]

So using your hydrophone mod removes the blind spots?For now,I am not using the long patrol script and wonder if you could put the arcs back for those that like to manually dive and hydro check.Or am I misunderstanding you.I am from NYC and you are from Sao Paulo so there might be a slight speech difference.

For sure!:DL
No, arc does nothing about blind spots. They are the sensors internal sh3 engine properties only.
And the script is another history,i just want to said that to you cover the blind spots, you really must turn your uboat abit.

[Wolfstriked]

Where can I learn about the blind spots for various equipment.Also Rubini,I seem to be getting readings on surface with your mod.It might be mod soup though so tommorow I will try it loading it last and see what happens.

[Rubini]

Where can I learn about the blind spots for various equipment.Also Rubini,I seem to be getting readings on surface with your mod.It might be mod soup though so tommorow I will try it loading it last and see what happens.
Use version 1.0a, the sensors are more deep on this version.

[Wolfstriked]

Thanks Rubini,will probably leave as is but just move SO to rest on surface.Maybe a mod to move SO to and from hydrophone if the newer version is better for readings close to periscope depth.

[Leitender]

Could you explain the arc better.Is it dumb to submerge and do a 360deg turn to ensure the blind spots are not a hindrance?
May i assist you, Rubini? :salute:

Wolfstriked

There were 3 passive sonars used in german U-Boats: GHG, KDB and Balkon.

The early GHG sensors were attached to each side of the boat near the front dive plane. That´s why one could only hear along the side and had blind spots at bow and stern. The commanders always did a 90° turn, to discover these blind spots in reality, btw. normally at a depth of 30m to get a maximum range.

Later rotatable KDB was mounted on top of the foredeck which led to a blind spot only at the stern because of the connning tower. That system was quite sensitive but had a minor range compared to the GHG and also was very vulnerable against depth charges. So it soon was cut off.

Finally Balkon followed the GHG principle, but was mounted below the keel at the bow of the boat, which reduced the blind spot to the stern and made spotting possible when surfaced. Also range was increased.

If contact was lost, the operater could estimate the target´s course for little time and give these estimates to the kaleun. If the target´s course was more or less perpendicular it was possible to bridge this gap.

Bearing accuracy was not accurate enough to get firing solutions irl (different than ingame). So it was only used for tactical / surveillance purposes.

So far so good. All the blind spots, resp. bearings are given in the sensors.dat file and the values were more or less ok. Beyond, there is a "always tracking bonus time" within the sensors.cfg wich exactly simulates the update of bearing without contacts. This is a very fine and well functioning system in SH3. But this only concerns the crew.

You yourself are able to hear contacts at the hydrophone without any restrictions in geometry, loudness, speed etc. That´s much easier, but not realliy realistic. So if you trust only your sonar operator, you will gain realistic results. To support your operator turn your boat after a few minutes 90° as irl and you will get the biggest immersion.

[Rubini]

May i assist you, Rubini? :salute:

Wolfstriked

There were 3 passive sonars used in german U-Boats: GHG, KDB and Balkon.

The early GHG sensors were attached to each side of the boat near the front dive plane. That´s why one could only hear along the side and had blind spots at bow and stern. The commanders always did a 90° turn, to discover these blind spots in reality, btw. normally at a depth of 30m to get a maximum range.

Later rotatable KDB was mounted on top of the foredeck which led to a blind spot only at the stern because of the connning tower. That system was quite sensitive but had a minor range compared to the GHG and also was very vulnerable against depth charges. So it soon was cut off.

Finally Balkon followed the GHG principle, but was mounted below the keel at the bow of the boat, which reduced the blind spot to the stern and made spotting possible when surfaced. Also range was increased.

If contact was lost, the operater could estimate the target´s course for little time and give these estimates to the kaleun. If the target´s course was more or less perpendicular it was possible to bridge this gap.

Bearing accuracy was not accurate enough to get firing solutions irl (different than ingame). So it was only used for tactical / surveillance purposes.

So far so good. All the blind spots, resp. bearings are given in the sensors.dat file and the values were more or less ok. Beyond, there is a "always tracking bonus time" within the sensors.cfg wich exactly simulates the update of bearing without contacts. This is a very fine and well functioning system in SH3. But this only concerns the crew.

You yourself are able to hear contacts at the hydrophone without any restrictions in geometry, loudness, speed etc. That´s much easier, but not realliy realistic. So if you trust only your sonar operator, you will gain realistic results. To support your operator turn your boat after a few minutes 90° as irl and you will get the biggest immersion.
Thanks Leitender! Very good explanation!:salute:

[Wolfstriked]

May i assist you, Rubini? :salute:

Wolfstriked

There were 3 passive sonars used in german U-Boats: GHG, KDB and Balkon.

The early GHG sensors were attached to each side of the boat near the front dive plane. That´s why one could only hear along the side and had blind spots at bow and stern. The commanders always did a 90° turn, to discover these blind spots in reality, btw. normally at a depth of 30m to get a maximum range.

Later rotatable KDB was mounted on top of the foredeck which led to a blind spot only at the stern because of the connning tower. That system was quite sensitive but had a minor range compared to the GHG and also was very vulnerable against depth charges. So it soon was cut off.

Finally Balkon followed the GHG principle, but was mounted below the keel at the bow of the boat, which reduced the blind spot to the stern and made spotting possible when surfaced. Also range was increased.

If contact was lost, the operater could estimate the target´s course for little time and give these estimates to the kaleun. If the target´s course was more or less perpendicular it was possible to bridge this gap.

Bearing accuracy was not accurate enough to get firing solutions irl (different than ingame). So it was only used for tactical / surveillance purposes.

So far so good. All the blind spots, resp. bearings are given in the sensors.dat file and the values were more or less ok. Beyond, there is a "always tracking bonus time" within the sensors.cfg wich exactly simulates the update of bearing without contacts. This is a very fine and well functioning system in SH3. But this only concerns the crew.

You yourself are able to hear contacts at the hydrophone without any restrictions in geometry, loudness, speed etc. That´s much easier, but not realliy realistic. So if you trust only your sonar operator, you will gain realistic results. To support your operator turn your boat after a few minutes 90° as irl and you will get the biggest immersion.

Excellent post there Leitender and just opens up more possibilities^^ in modding:DAs for the player being able to hear with no restriction,well that sucks.You say trust the SO but last night he was totally unrealistic.In outside view his bearings to a lone merchant were off completely and sometimes spot on.I wonder then is it that I had less than half of the green bar filled.If so then that needs to be modded out also.:rotfl2:Now get to work fellas.....:har:

[LGN1]

LGN1:

You must also create a new sensor (e.g. R02 for a Radar system which differentiates in range between planes and ships) to the ship´s sns-file AND create a new cfg-node to the ship´s dat-file. Compare it to the existing sensors an you will see.


Hi,

I have tried the idea, but couldn't get it to work. It seems that the units can only deal with one sensor per sensor type :-? From reading some old posts, it seems that several people have already tried similar things, but no one has been successful so far. Nevertheless, it would be good if someone else tries it again. Leitender?

Regards, LGN1

[Leitender]

Hi LGN1,

two attempts: Creating a R02-Node within .dat-file, then 1. create a R02-part within .sns-file: No success. 2. Fitted unused D01-Node with type 286-Radar: No success either. So far: :hmmm:

[Vince82]

:yeah:Very important mod, adds a lot more realism as the hydrophone is such a vital piece of equipment for a uboat.

TY Rubini

[gap]

Leitender have noticed that the player only can listen from one of the layers (seems the more deep one, the other two are deaf for the player).
Anyhow, the sonarman and the game works normally on the hydro contacts and dinamics, as intend.
So, be adviced, until we find a solution, that this mod is not suitable for players that like to listen contacts by theirselfs

Hi Rubini,

I suggest you to go through the last posts of Repaired Equipment MOD's thread: it seems that I and volodya61 managed to fix the above issue, making hydrophone contacts audible along the whole sensor's depth range.

Hopefully our method will work for SHIII as well :up:

[Rubini]

Hi Rubini,

I suggest you to go through the last posts of Repaired Equipment MOD's thread: it seems that I and volodya61 managed to fix the above issue, making hydrophone contacts audible along the whole sensor's depth range.

Hopefully our method will work for SHIII as well :up:

Thanks by the tip gap! Just finished to read all that thread and will start to test your approach on sh3. Will post my finds later!:up:

[Rubini]

Ok, first quick test done:

it works also on SH3! Great find guys!:yeah:

Some comments and limitations:

1. The solution is related to make the first sensor the more long one (more distance sensible, currently the more deep). In this original mod and also on my version for Sh3 the sequence was just the inverse: first the short one, last the long one.

2.With this correction the mod continues to work on Ai/sonarman crew side correctly...but

3. At player (human) side, besides the fact that now we have again a really working hydro station as before (I mean, we have again ambience and propelers sound there all the time), it have the flaw of working all the time, for any distance (from max 30km from almost 0km), independentely of the hydro layer.

Conclusion: isn´t a perfect solution because the player will listen too much, independently of the hydro layer or uboat depth, but the AI/sonarman will works correctly, as the mod intention. Probably by game engine limitation, we will never have a perfect solution, but the mod is much better now!!(well, "never" can´t be used on SH3/4/5 mod community, we already fix a lot of unfixable things, no?):up:

I will test it a bit more and make a new update package soon!

[gap]

Hi Rubini,

I am glad that, despite its limitations, the fix also worked for you. :up:
your conclusions are correct:

- only the last SensorData controller of each hydrophone (the one with the bigger Index Id) is used for human audible contacts: its Min and Max SensorHeights must cover the whole depth range at which we want contacts to be audible by the player;

- unfortunately human audible contacts are not affected by MaxRange settings: as noted by you, they are audible at any range. This is a limitation (or rather an unlimitation :D) relative to SH5 and probaly to SHIII stock games. Introducing layers with limited hydrophone detection, the present mod and your one for SHIII only make the problem more obvious.

[Rubini]

Hi guys,

After made more tests i can say that the gap fix really fixed the problem! Now the mod is complete!!
I will make a new updated version and will post for download until tomorrow!

Thanks gap!:salute:

[gap]

Hi guys,

After made more tests i can say that the gap fix really fixed the problem! Now the mod is complete!!
I will make a new updated version and will post for download until tomorrow!

Thanks gap!:salute:

:yeah: :woot:

[Txema]

The link for this mod is not working form me:

Link to download (after decompress choose accordingly)
Version 2.0
http://www.mediafire.com/?q8fzs78u03t8wb

Could you please check it ?

Thanks in advance !!


Txema

[Fubar2Niner]

Hi guys,

After made more tests i can say that the gap fix really fixed the problem! Now the mod is complete!!
I will make a new updated version and will post for download until tomorrow!

Thanks gap!:salute:

@Rubini

Is it possible you could re upload this please? The link is dead :wah:

:yeah: :woot:

@Gap

Did you download Rubini's updated version? If so any chance you might host it as Rubini's mediafile link is dead.

Many thanks Kaleuns :salute:

Best regards.

Fubar2Niner

[makman94]

i have upload this great ('must have') mini mod here:

http://speedy.sh/SyMdg/New-Hydrophones-layersV2.0.7z


ps: it is only for limited downloads so get it until Rubini fix his download links

[Txema]

Hi makman94,

Thank you very much for the link !!

But when I try to download the file it requires to execute a .exe file and I don't want to do that... It is supposed to be a download manager, but still... Why don't they allow us to download the file without executing an .exe?

[makman94]

Hi makman94,

Thank you very much for the link !!

But when I try to download the file it requires to execute a .exe file and I don't want to do that... It is supposed to be a download manager, but still... Why don't they allow us to download the file without executing an .exe?

i think that you are not clicking on the right spot .

click on the title of mod at the upper line

[Txema]

You are completely right, makman94 !!

Works perfectly by clicking on the title of mod at the upper line.

Thanks again !!!

:salute:

Txema

[Fubar2Niner]

Thanks very much makman :yeah:

Best regards.

Fubar2Niner

[Rubini]

Hi guys,

Sorry by the link issue, seems that MediaFire changed all the links.

First post updated with new corrected link.:up:

[Fubar2Niner]

Hi guys,

Sorry by the link issue, seems that MediaFire changed all the links.

First post updated with new corrected link.:up:

Thanks very much for your help Rubini, most grateful. :salute:

Best regards.

Fubar2Niner

[sublynx]

Another great mod by Rubini into my to-add-to-my-modsoup -list :salute:

How is it possible for Rubini to turn up with one essential mod after another, at a pace so fast that I can't get them added as a new one appears:06:

Not that I'm complaining! Thanks again Rubini :arrgh!:

[Leitender]

Hi Rubini,

just discovered your "new" version from February, downloaded, tested and: Wonderful. When my SO found a contact at about 14km in a depth of 30m, he lost him after going to p-depth after 4 minutes. Perfect. Also could i hear all that "stock" noise when using the hydro by myself. Thanks a lot to gap! Now its an absolute must have mod :up:

At last understood your intention with that rpmdetlevels. This is a great finding! Silent Hunter gives away its last secrets. Btw something is still missing. Will send you a pm.

Best greetings.

Leitender.

[jaxa]

Rubini, I'd like to try your mod, but have conflicts with these two mods:
1. your Unofficial rockets fix and
2. No continous 'ship spotted' v1.2 by hsie.

They both use sensors.dat file, but I use No continous 'ship spotted' v1.2 for Rubinis rocket fix version over your mod and it all works perfect.
How to merge with them your Hydrophones layers mod properly?

[Rubini]

Rubini, I'd like to try your mod, but have conflicts with these two mods:
1. your Unofficial rockets fix and
2. No continous 'ship spotted' v1.2 by hsie.

They both use sensors.dat file, but I use No continous 'ship spotted' v1.2 for Rubinis rocket fix version over your mod and it all works perfect.
How to merge with them your Hydrophones layers mod properly?

Hi jaxa,

From the readme:

...
- If you have a modded sensors.dat and don´t want to use the one that comes with the mod, then just do the follow:

1. make sure to delete each "SensorData" controller from each hydro type on your own sensors.dat using S3D (1 per hydro type on sensors.dat).

2. also delete the sensors.dat that come with this mod - will use only the new "sensors.cam" file, it´s in truth the same for the three versions (GWX,NYGM,WAC).

In the end, you will have your own sensors.dat (without any SensorsData controller for hydrophones) and the Sensors.cam from this mod. This is enough to go!

This mod uses a new file (that is compatible with everything) but also needs the exposed above changes on your sensors.dat if you already have a previous modded one.:up:

[jaxa]

Thanks for advice Rubini :up:

[Leitender]

Hi Rubini!

Since I haven´t heard anything from you for the last weeks, I feel free to publish the reworked version of your hydrophone mod, referring to your permission given some time before. I hope you don´t mind and you are all well...

This is only a small rework of rubini´s great mod including a few fixes and an additional optional sensors.cam file in which I included the values having researched in different books and internet resources. I added a version for LSH-players, too.

If you´d like to know more about the changes, please read - the readme :03:
Here´s an extract of it about the recommended way of playing:

Keep your boat´s equipment updated! Beyond, always dive to at least 25-30m if possible to get the best listening effect. Don´t forget to do a 45° offset of the boat´s heading and listen for a second time to enlighten the blind parts of the hydrophone systems.

As a consequence we got from Rubini a really realistic behaviour of the game´s listening abilities and therefore we have to act like the real kaleuns. Great cinema :D (german saying, not to take for serious).

All credits for this mod go to Rubini! I would be glad to have you back here!

Please download here:

New reworked version 1.1. (http://www.mediafire.com/download/pfhnp1eb6nlm4ds/New_Hydrophones_layersV2.0_reworked1.1.7z)

[La vache]

Merci beaucoup, Leitender!
Le mieux est l´ennemi du bien.

[Rubini]

Hi Rubini!

Since I haven´t heard anything from you for the last weeks, I feel free to publish the reworked version of your hydrophone mod, referring to your permission given some time before. I hope you don´t mind and you are all well...

This is only a small rework of rubini´s great mod including a few fixes and an additional optional sensors.cam file in which I included the values having researched in different books and internet resources. I added a version for LSH-players, too.

If you´d like to know more about the changes, please read - the readme :03:
Here´s an extract of it about the recommended way of playing:

Keep your boat´s equipment updated! Beyond, always dive to at least 25-30m if possible to get the best listening effect. Don´t forget to do a 45° offset of the boat´s heading and listen for a second time to enlighten the blind parts of the hydrophone systems.

As a consequence we got from Rubini a really realistic behaviour of the game´s listening abilities and therefore we have to act like the real kaleuns. Great cinema :D (german saying, not to take for serious).

All credits for this mod go to Rubini! I would be glad to have you back here!

Please download here:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/50ex6y3j0y11xwp/New_Hydrophones_layersV2.0_reworked.7z

Hi Leitender,

Excuse me my long absence from SH3, a RL hard duties last months.
Thanks to your reworked version, it´s really great!
I will update the first post with this option for the mod.

Ahoy!:up:

Rubini.

[Leitender]

Hi Rubini,

thank your very much for your reply. Concerning RL hard duties: of course pc gaming isn´t the most important thing in the world. Anyway we really regretted if you would retire from the forum. But we still have hope :up:

Best regards

Salut La Vache,

Il y a toujours quelque chose a retoucher :03:

[Tycho]

Hi, Leitender! With your sensors.dat for NYGM, and your sensors.cam from documentation folder, I get "Hydrophone receiver destroyed" immediately after mission loading. S3D refused to open your sensors.dat. But I take my original NYGM file, delete each "SensorData" controller from each hydro type, and with your sensors.cam now it works.

[Leitender]

Hi Tycho,
thank you very much for this tip. Got the same error when trying to open the sensors.dat file for GWX. Seems that I made a mistake when removing the header information from S3D.

@all
Please don´t use this version until i have corrected this mistake! Will upload a working version soon. Thanks and I´m sorry for that.

Greetings
Leitender

[Leitender]

Hi you fellow sailors,

uploaded a fixed version (1.1). Downloadlink above :salute:

Tycho

If you use the mod in that way you describend it, you will loose all that randomized events stuff of the SH3 Commander. Maybe you even loose the functionality of some sensors. So please don´t use your solution together with the Commander, or replace the mod by the reworked version 1.1.

Best regards

Leitender

[ReallyDedPoet]

Nice mod, near the start of this thread Rubini you had mentioned making if for 16km, is it also compatible for 20km?

Thanks.

[Rubini]

Nice mod, near the start of this thread Rubini you had mentioned making if for 16km, is it also compatible for 20km?

Thanks.

Hi mate, how are you?
It´s so long time since the relesase of this mod...IIRC it´s already compatible with "default" big mods 16km. This refers to the sensors.dat file. I provide a step by step instruction on how to use your own actual sensors.dat. It´s on the first post/ inside the readme of the mod. It´s just two easy steps. Following them, the mod can be compatible with any sh3 installation!:up:

Cheers!
Rubini.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Hi mate, how are you?
It´s so long time since the relesase of this mod...IIRC it´s already compatible with "default" big mods 16km. This refers to the sensors.dat file. I provide a step by step instruction on how to use your own actual sensors.dat. It´s on the first post/ inside the readme of the mod. It´s just two easy steps. Following them, the mod can be compatible with any sh3 installation!:up:

Cheers!
Rubini.

I am well :).

Just recently bought a new laptop and am getting back to trying some of the SH3 stuff I could not use with my previous set up.

Was looking at the read-me a bit last night. So if I use a 20km mod, I simply delete your sensors.dat from this mod and make the changes mentioned with mine ( deleting the "SensorData" controller from each hydro type using S3D ) then install your "sensors.cam" file.

Great work by the way :yep::up:

[Rubini]

I am well :).

Just recently bought a new laptop and am getting back to trying some of the SH3 stuff I could not use with my previous set up.

Was looking at the read-me a bit last night. So if I use a 20km mod, I simply delete your sensors.dat from this mod and make the changes mentioned with mine ( deleting the "SensorData" controller from each hydro type using S3D ) then install your "sensors.cam" file.

Great work by the way :yep::up:

Yes , exactly! If you have some trouble let me know. I have a personal memory problem. :/\\!!After some time I can´t reply with 100% sure about things that I worked on because I always expend so much energy and attention, going so deep, that when I move to another new projects I forget details about that far way works. It´s the age!:D

[ReallyDedPoet]

Yes , exactly! If you have some trouble let me know. I have a personal memory problem. :/\\!!After some time I can´t reply with 100% sure about things that I worked on because I always expend so much energy and attention, going so deep, that when I move to another new projects I forget details about that far way works. It´s the age!:D

I know the feeling regarding age :oops::), that and having three boys that take me in every direction possible :doh:

Just when I get to the point of being satisfied with my SH3 install, I find myself tweaking this file and changing that one.
It never ends. It's all good in the end though.

I'll let you know how it works out.

[Fahnenbohn]

Hello all ! I need advice. When I am submerged at a depth of -15 m, and i'm still not detected, sub's machinery at stop. Well, if a destroyer comes near me (200 meters for example), it detects me, although i'm absolutely silent ... What's wrong with the sensors ?.... Does the sub makes noise although the engines are stopped ? And i've noticed that the order "schleich fahrt" is not effective at all to increase the discretion....

[Rubini]

Hello all ! I need advice. When I am submerged at a depth of -15 m, and i'm still not detected, sub's machinery at stop. Well, if a destroyer comes near me (200 meters for example), it detects me, although i'm absolutely silent ... What's wrong with the sensors ?.... Does the sub makes noise although the engines are stopped ? And i've noticed that the order "schleich fahrt" is not effective at all to increase the discretion....

Hi mate,

This is not related to this mod. You can ask this as a separated thread on the forum. And it´s important to we know what mods are you using to better help you.

Now some info: destroyers use sonars and they can detect you if they are near enough. Just stopping your engines will no help in this situation. Also some mods (big mods) make the destroyers much more sensible. Take this in mind.

[Fahnenbohn]

Hi mate,

This is not related to this mod. You can ask this as a separated thread on the forum.

Oh, very sorry, I'm going to open a new thread in this case. I believed this was a thread discussing about hydrophones in general. :salute:

[Leitender]

Hi you fellow kaleuns,
rubinis downloadlink for my reworked version in the first post of this thread is broken. Here´s a current one:

(Downloadlink removed, current version see below)


Rubini:

Do you mind to update that link? Thank you very much in advance.

With best wishes

Leitender

[Tycho]

Leitender, in your version of the mod, you provide your personal Sensors.cam in documentation folder.
Look there for BalkonGerat_type9:
for MaxSensorHeight= -25
MaxRange is 2800 need to be 28000

[Leitender]

Hi Tycho,

thank you again very much for your finding. I´m really sorry for that mistake and I´d like to update the mod immediatly. But first may I ask for your experience with the minimum depth of the Balkon? Does it work with your installation on the surface normally as expected, continously or do you have to increase detph? Otherwise we could discuss another value for the minimum depth when using the balkon.

Your answer would be really appreciated. Thanks in advance

Greetings

Leitender

[Tycho]

Sorry, Leitender! But in my campaigns I never reach 1944 years. I never used Balkon hydrophones. I open your Sensors.cam with s3d, only from curiosity, and for comparison. Notice this mistake accidentally.

[Leitender]

Hi Tycho,

all right, thank you though for your answer :03: I wish you good luck in your further carreer. Keep alive!

I´ll update the reworked version afterwards. But again, all credits go to Rubini, it was his idea and it is his mod! Thank you so much Rubini for sharing your work with us!

Leitender

Download v.1.2.:

New_Hydrophones_layersV2.0_reworked1.2 (http://www.mediafire.com/download/qvl2rr8jw7yafrw/New_Hydrophones_layersV2.0_reworked1.2.7z)

[LGN1]

Hi,

does anybody know whether in real life the KDB was mounted in addition to the GHG or whether it replaced the GHG? Any known sources about this issue?

Regards, LGN1

[Leitender]

Hi LGN1,

I was also wondering about this for a long time - and I have found no proof of addition / replacement of the GHG. But from the context, it seems the KDB was added to the GHG for the following reasons:

Every new boat since 1935 was equipped with a GHG by standard, the receicvers around the fore dive planes, the listening device in the - listening room. The KDB however and its listening device was mounted above resp. in the bow room, NOT in the radio room.

Why this disadvantageous position, if not because the KDB was an addition instead of a replacement? Then: The GHG was well working. Why dismount it, if there remained enough place for both? Instead, the KDB was not longer fitted to the boats at around 1942. It was even dismounted from (some?) boats already in action. I don´t believe that would have be done, if there wasn´t the GHG still in place. But that´s all I can say from what I´ve read, especially from Rössler´s book.

Greetings

Leitender

[LGN1]

Thanks, Leitender!

Based on several accounts I also think the KDB was in addition to the GHG and not a replacement (the original U-Bootskunde for the VIIC also indicates that it was an additional equipment). However, I have not seen any clear document :-?

Anyway, for my personal use I will make the in-game KDB a hybrid of the GHG and KDB. For the upper layer (attack depths) I will use KDB settings, for an intermediate layer GHG settings (long range search), and for the deepest layer again KDB settings (for evading escorts).

Regards, LGN1

[sublynx]

U-boat POW interrogation reports nearly always have a list of gear that the U-boat carried. For example here:

http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-660INT.htm

Maybe reading a few of these would be helpful.

[jaxa]

Hi Rubini, old friend :Kaleun_Salute:
How to merge your Hydrophones workaround mod with your superb Unofficial rocket fix? I'd like to use them both, but sensors.dat file is a problem.

[LGN1]

E. Rössler in his book 'Geschichte des deutschen U-Bootsbaus' writes '...zusätzlich noch ein drehbares Kristallbasisgerät (KDB)...'.

It seems the KDB was indeed mounted in addition to the GHG.

Regards, LGN1

[Leitender]

Sublynx,

thank you very much.

http://www.uboatarchive.net/index.html

is a great source for technical information from first hand. And it is still growing!

LGN1,

:up: Btw, "zusätzlich" means "additional" :D

The following question is: if both devices were mounted at the same time, were they also manned at the same time? Maybe at least during action stations? That seems possible for me.

Concerning the game: It seems that Silent Hunter is only able to use one sensor type at the same time. If we are right that the KDB was used as an addtion to the GHG, and both hydrophones were used together, we can merge the properties of both sensor types into the KDB sensor, like you did it. My conclusion was to merge the properties for every layer if both were used at the same time.

Have you read anything about range values of the KDB? The ratings of the crews were rather different. Most said the KDB was unreliable and way too sensitive. Others were really confident about much more precise bearings than they had got with the GHG alone.

Greetings

[BigWalleye]

Sublynx,

thank you very much.

http://www.uboatarchive.net/index.html

is a great source for technical information from first hand. And it is still growing!

LGN1,

:up: Btw, "zusätzlich" means "additional" :D

The following question is: if both devices were mounted at the same time, were they also manned at the same time? Maybe at least during action stations? That seems possible for me.

Concerning the game: It seems that Silent Hunter is only able to use one sensor type at the same time. If we are right that the KDB was used as an addtion to the GHG, and both hydrophones were used together, we can merge the properties of both sensor types into the KDB sensor, like you did it. My conclusion was to merge the properties for every layer if both were used at the same time.

Have you read anything about range values of the KDB? The ratings of the crews were rather different. Most said the KDB was unreliable and way too sensitive. Others were really confident about much more precise bearings than they had got with the GHG alone.

Greetings

Leitender, I can see one potential problem with merging the capabilities of the two sensors. The KDB had well-documented sensitivity to damage from depth charges. When such damage occurs, the performance advantages of the KDB should be lost, and the hydrophones should revert to GHG. I don't know if this could be implemented in the game short of through a code patch. Without it, the player 's sub either has too much capability or too much damage resistance. Of course, that also presents a problem in the stock version, since a damaged KDB currently means the hydrophones are useless, whereas historically, the sub would still have a functional GHG.

Any modders out there see an ingenious way to tackle this issue?

[Leitender]

BigWalleye,

I see your point, and yes, I had obviously read the same sources like you about the real properties of this listening gear. But concerning the game: The resistance to (?) destruction is controlled in the .zon-file ("hitpoints") and isn´t touched if we change the sensor values. So if you build in a KDB into your boat, you will always load its weak resistance, no matter of the sensors´s abilities. There will be no difference to the stock game behaviour.

The best solution would be to force the exe to load several different sensors of one sensor type. Thus we could give each sensor different settings one by one.

[BigWalleye]

The resistance to (?) destruction is controlled in the .zon-file ("hitpoints") and isn´t touched if we change the sensor values. So if you build in a KDB into your boat, you will always load its weak resistance, no matter of the sensors´s abilities. There will be no difference to the stock game behaviour.

You could change the "hitpoints" also, of course. But that wouldn't really solve the dilemma, because in-game there would still only be one hydrophone set where historically there were two.

The best solution would be to force the exe to load several different sensors of one sensor type. Thus we could give each sensor different settings one by one. Is there any way of doing that short of a hard-code patch?

[LGN1]

@Leitender: There's not much written about the KDB performance. Rössler mentions an angle resolution of +/-1°, the advantage that it could be used when the boat was on the sea floor, and "allerdings war die Reichweite nicht annähernd so groß wie beim GHG".

I prefer to have 'pure' GHG/KDB settings at each depth layer because this avoids any strange mix-ups (either KDB bearings with GHG range or too short GHG ranges). In addition, for me the KDB has only advantages when attacking and when escaping. In both cases the KDB range is more than enough. So, when searching for ships I dive below 20-25m and use the GHG (settings) and when attacking at periscope depth I have the KDB (settings).

@BigWalleye: I have also thought about modeling how fragile the KDB was according to sources. However, as mentioned before the problem is that the boat has only one hydrophone. If you look at the file Zones.cfg you will find only one entry 'UHydrophReceivers'. :-?

Regards, LGN1

[Leitender]

LGN1,

have you ever tested different bearing accuracies of the hydrophones? I just did it with the radar, where I got some odd results when changing the values. There, it seems to be possible to change bearing accuracy for the player. For the AI radar operator, we cannot proove it because the corresponding order isn´t implemented. But that´s another playground.

I assume you are listening by yourself? I do this because I can get more information from the sound source than the SO alone is able to report me. AFAIK, the listing range for the player can´t be influenced. So if you listen by yourself, then you will always hear a contact at around 30km, no matter what sensor range is set.

If you trust in your SO and you also use Rubini´s hydrophone layer, there´ll be already included a reduction of range - but of course because of external listening circumstances, and not because of a different listening gear.

If I had the choice which gear to use, I would prefer the long range GHG in the deepest layer for reconnaissance as it seemed to be usual for the boats ("Rundhorchen auf 30m"). Only for attacks around periscope depth the better bearing accuracy could give the SO more precise readings. For evasive manouevres I would prefer listing by myself, as mentionend above.

Would you describe your way of handling the sonar system? I really appreciate your substantial postings.

Greetings

[gap]

Nice discussion was going here, I am sorry I didn't notice it before :up:

Having read in the past most of the U-boat survivor interrogation reports, I can confirm that the KDB hydrophone was only used in conjuction with the GHG until both were replaced by the Balkon Gerat. I can add that, due to its limited range, the KDB was only useful during close range engagements, when its better angular resolution (which, by the way, is not easily customizable in game) and its detection field forward, provided some advantages over the GHG. It is also to be noted that due to its position, which exposed it to noise interferences from the water surface, this device was especially useless at shallow depths and yes, it was extremely subject to both damage during depth charging and to flooding at depths under 300 ft.

For the reasons above, it would be utterly unrealistic simulating a KDB upgrade without including the features of the GHG. As noted by BigWalleye, merging the properties of the two sensors in the in-game rendition of the KDB has some severe limitations, but there is another approach that can be used. I don't know how SHIII u-boat upgrads are set, but I and vdr1981 managed making SH5 to "fit" both sensors aboard when the KDB upgrade is selected. Though with some minor glitches, the hydrophone operator is able to use both devices at once, and if the KDB gets broken, he can still use the GHG. The tweaks above were included in vdr's Reworked Submarine Damage mod, now part of The Wolves of Steel. I suggest anyone concerned to have a look into the RSD thread (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=2108261#post2108261) for more details on how we made this to work. :salute:

P.S: I would like to have a look into Leitender's tweaks of Rubini's mod, or at least in his release notes, but the mediafire link at post #1 doesn't work anymore, and apparently Leitender has not been active during the last months. Can someone kindly re-uplaod the mod (just Leitender's version of it, the link to the main mod works perfectly)? :)

[Tycho]

Plissken's server (ftp://Maik:Woelfe@hartmuthaas.no-ip.org/Public/Sharing/SH3COMMUNITYMODS/LEITENDER%20(ODINDNJE)/New_Hydrophones_layersV2.0_reworked1.2.7z)

[gap]

Thank you Sir :Kaleun_Salute: