Wargame: European Escalation

[Krauter]

Doesn't matter to me. If you just want to play and not worry about how you're doing I'll be online.

[reignofdeath]

I would like to do this in the future but Im still a bit of a noob.

Yeah no worries man, Krauter has taught me since we started playing, you get the hang of it, then get your own tactics... like a Leopard2 spam :arrgh!: Immmm just kidding, but really, its okay, I was a big noob. Id say don't get frustrated the first few games, you will feel like you got your butt whooped, when in reality you did okay, but then when you start to get the idea of how things work, it will start becoming very fun.

[bertieck476]

Hi folks, look forward to some multiplayer games but how would I arrange a game against yourselves? I did read about a subsim group/team I came across it and it says you need to be invited.

[Arclight]

I can invite people to this one: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/bernardheroes

And there's a public group, you'll find plenty of people around; http://steamcommunity.com/groups/subsim


As to when... ask people that are playing I guess. We get some games going with 4-5 of us occasionally.

[reignofdeath]

Anybody up for one this weekend?:cool:

[Krauter]

I will be home on my gaming rig Friday Saturday Sunday.. I can also try on my laptop though I'm not sure how good I'll be with it...

[reignofdeath]

Those days work for me, probably Friday or Saturday for you (Saturday/ Sunday for me) Any one else? Id like to get a good size game going.

[HunterICX]

Anybody up for one this weekend?:cool:

Won't be around this weekend as I'm on a bike trip, but as usual whenever I'm online during the weekends just give me a heads up if you wish to have a game going.

HunterICX

[reignofdeath]

Won't be around this weekend as I'm on a bike trip, but as usual whenever I'm online during the weekends just give me a heads up if you wish to have a game going.

HunterICX

Right on.

Any other takers? Me and Krauter as of now, if we can get 2 or 4 more we can get a 2v2 or a 3v3

[Raptor1]

I can usually join a game whenever I'm online on Steam, unless I'm away or busy with something else.

[reignofdeath]

I can usually join a game whenever I'm online on Steam, unless I'm away or busy with something else.

Would you be on this weekend Raptor?

[Raptor1]

Would you be on this weekend Raptor?

Probably.

[reignofdeath]

Probably.

Well if so, then maybe a 2v2? We just need 1 more.

[Arclight]

Same deal for me most likely, though I can't really promise... well I'll take a break from anything else if you need to even the teams out.

[bertieck476]

If Im online Id play a game, though Im still learning, not sure how you join a game with you folks on steam as I have never done it, my name in steam is Bertieck476

edit. I just had a look and there is a friends tab, do I add you all??

[Arclight]

Can do, added you and sent an invitation for that group. Wouldn't worry about being new to the game, I don't really care at least and I'm rather terrible against human opponents last I checked.

[reignofdeath]

Okay, well we will see if we can coordinate something this weekend :yeah:

[Raptor1]

AirLand Battle is up for pre-ordering on Steam with immediate Beta access. It costs $40 but if you already own European Escalation (actually the store just says "Users that own" and then nothing, but I assume that's what they mean) it's only $30.

EDIT: They fixed it now and that is indeed the case.

[bertieck476]

Thanks for the info, look forward to reviews, I'll wait a while before I buy it as Im just getting to grips with EE.

[Raptor1]

Okay, here are my first impressions:

MiG-23s. AAAAAAAAAAAAH!

[Oberon]

Okay, here are my first impressions:

MiG-23s. AAAAAAAAAAAAH!

Sounds familiar to my experience in Falcon 4 the other day... :hmmm:

[Krauter]

I will be pre-ordering and downloading tomorrow. Will let you guys know how it goes as well.

[Biggles]

To hell with it...I preorded it! Yet another game to throw on the heap entitled "totally awesomely cool but way too hard for me to master) :wah:

[reignofdeath]

Im loving it so far, there are issues here and there, on the W ALB forums they mainly seem to be with balancing concerning Arty is more powerful and some tanks, as well as ATGM/ SAM ranges and finally some feel because of jets, choppers are now worthless, but those sorts of things will be changed through patches before and after release. So far I have enjoyed it alot, only thing is, Im not too much a fan of the amount of points you get, could just be Im too used to EE.

Raptor and Biggles, what be your steam IDs so I can add you guys? Maybe we could get a large mp game going some day, we tried on W EE last weekend with Arc, Krauter, TaskForce and I, seemed to work well :up:

[Raptor1]

Raptor and Biggles, what be your steam IDs so I can add you guys? Maybe we could get a large mp game going some day, we tried on W EE last weekend with Arc, Krauter, TaskForce and I, seemed to work well :up:

My Steam ID would be 'Raptor1A'.

[Krauter]

Downloading as we speak. Looking forward to playing this. Can someone explain how the aircraft works? Do I have, say 8 per battle that I can only call 8 sorties? Or if I lose one it goes down to 7, 6, etc.

[Raptor1]

Downloading as we speak. Looking forward to playing this. Can someone explain how the aircraft works? Do I have, say 8 per battle that I can only call 8 sorties? Or if I lose one it goes down to 7, 6, etc.

You buy them, and then they stay at an off-map airfield until you tell them to sortie. When you do, they enter the map and you can order them around until they run of fuel or weapons (or you tell them to bug out), at which point they return to base and you have to wait until they're repaired, refueled and rearmed before you can call them in again. Like all other units in Wargame, there's a limit to how many of each type you can buy in a game, of course.

EDIT: All that assuming they didn't get shot down, that is.

[Krauter]

Makes sense, I did see in a few youtube videos you have to unlock them and then call them in. But it's glad to know that if you take care of them you have an "infinite" amount of them.

[Oberon]

First impression:

Ack, playing as the Soviets...what the hell do I do?
AAAAH F-16s!!!
AAAAH F-5s!!!
AAAAH Jaguars!!!
Buk, why you so useless?!

Otherwise, enjoying this so far. :yep:

http://imageshack.us/a/img607/2270/2013042600001.jpg
Angry junk, roll out!

http://imageshack.us/a/img19/6761/2013042600002k.jpg
The only screenshot of the jets I could get, damn things move so fast, an F-5 after a close encounter with two SA-11s

[bertieck476]

Hi folks ALB looks pretty good, Im sticking with just W EE for now, my steam id is Bertieck476 if you add me I can do the same then Id like to play mp as well.

Thanks Bert.

[Krauter]

Don't know if I like the new UI or not.. I like the smaller icons in WEE

[Krauter]

Anybody down for ALB right now? I just had a match and won but I'm not sure what happened. One guy just rushed our spawn so it was pretty annoying.

Anyways, if anyone wants a game just let me know. Also, any way to see what units are in what BG?

[Arclight]

Rough idea: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArpGCRX69tZBdFJkQ0FtMWxpRndkR1JQYnRiUV9hd lE#gid=0

You can customize the HUD rather extensively, to the point it's practically WEE.

[Krauter]

Thanks for the quick reply.

[Krauter]

Hmm seems for Pact that Poland and USSR are only real viable atm.. not liking the look of E. Germany and Poland looks "meh".

As for Nato.. :o Lots of choice. Thinking I might go with Canada cause of well. maple syrup and Sweden for taht sexy S tank.

[Krauter]

Really enjoying playing with the Canadians. Only problem I have now, which wasn't fixed from W:EE. Is retarded teammates :/\\!!

[Krauter]

Aaaand the magic is done. I'm going to shelve this until the 22nd.

[Spike88]

My Steam ID would be 'Raptor1A'.

Are you a steak suace?


Edit: Nevermind, that would be A1. It's too early.

[reignofdeath]

Aaaand the magic is done. I'm going to shelve this until the 22nd.


Why? Im still playing it n getting used to it.

So far what is everyones problem with the game? Mine would be the points are accumulated to easily

[Arclight]

My problem is that there don't seem to be any decks I really like, though that shall be fixed within a timespan of "imminent" with the introduction of deck customization.

[Krauter]

Anyone down for W:ALB or W:EE?

[Arclight]

Could get WAB going again.

[Krauter]

Want to apologize to USNRCasey, Arc and Oberon.

Getting upset at a beta is not cool.

[Oberon]

Want to apologize to USNRCasey, Arc and Oberon.

Getting upset at a beta is not cool.

Nah, it's ok, I've had my share of frustration with my units in Wargame. :salute:
Your AMXs held their own very well up at the bottom left cap-zone, and that Corsair made a mess of my T-55s. :haha:

[Krauter]

It's funny because all of the frustrations that I had in that game, could've been solved by giving us customizeable decks. Still scratching my head at that one.

[Oberon]

It's funny because all of the frustrations that I had in that game, could've been solved by giving us customizeable decks. Still scratching my head at that one.

Patience young grasshopper, they're probably still working on the other units and want to take this opportunity to see how the units in there at the moment balance up before they add the rest in. :yep:

[Krauter]

Deck release is "imminent" I hear. But that doesn't make sense because how can you judge the effectiveness of units when people will only go and take the most effective decks.

[Arclight]

No worries, try to keep a level head though.

This one requires some different skills from WEE. I've found tanks mostly useless early game, 2-4 at most. Territory control is more important, and air defenses. The urban stuff lets some infantry hold off a superior force, if backed up with some proper arty and aircraft.

[Oberon]

Indeed, it's nice to see infantry actually have a use now, back in W:EE if I had a pound for every time I set up a lovely Dragon spot in the trees only to have it blown to pieces before it could fire off one ATGM, so it's nice to actually have a purpose for infantry. :yep: :up:

[Krauter]

Hmm see I'm finding it the opposite. Infantry are totally useless outside of cities (and only then in overwhelming force). In forests or hedges? Forget about it./

[Arclight]

I didn't use infantry anymore in WEE. I mainly use infantry in WAB. In forests the vehicle supporting them becomes a lot more important; the basic APC with a 7.62 MG doesn't put down enough fire to really suppress an infantry squad quickly, let alone contribute to destroying a tank platoon you might run into.

Autocannons are ideal there (apart from the RARDEN of course :P), putting effective fire on a target quickly and in good volume. Most have a respectable armor piercing ability as well, allowing you to put some hurt and stress on tanks, especially if you can get some shots on the side (split the IFVs into 2x2 and move on the flanks of the infantry platoon). The recoilless rifles on some pact APCs perform well as well.

Sending some more light vehicles along can improve the odds as well; some 10-20pt vehicles perform well enough at close range, ie. in forests.

[Oberon]

The RARDEN is pretty good at...well...being a target... :/\\!!

At least we have the Warrior in WAB now... :yep:

Although technically, the autocannon on the Warrior, is in fact the RARDEN...why W:EE decided to name a unit after its cannon I do not know..and, the autocannon on the Warrior IRL is a bit of a confusing device, to quote ARRSE:

They come in clips of three and are loaded three clips at a time. The Rarden Cannon must have a another clip loaded after three rounds in order for the mechanism to keep the cycle of self loading going. If the Commander loses count the gun will not load and this will cause what is know as a gap in feed and the gun will need to be made safe, (an unload followed by a load).
To compensate for its speed, presence and protection it is equipped with comedy weapons that need precognitive abilities (Think I'll need HE in three rounds time) or (when using the Chaingun), a patient and slow moving enemy, "firing now", BANG, clunk, "stoppage, **** hang on a bit - bollocks - dropped the spinny thing"

[Arclight]

In WAB it fires a 5 round burst before going through a reload cycle. It's a good weapon otherwise, it's just that utterly confusing feed mechanism that makes it completely impractical.

[reignofdeath]

I agree with Krauter on this one, I feel inf should be king in the forests as well.. It makes sense, especially if they have been there, ie. dug in. I can't count the number of times some tanks rolled into my 2 or 3 squads in a forest and obliterated them. In that situation, the inf should and always would have the advantage. Especially if they get first shot, tanks should be toast. Maybe giving them something like the ability to see much further in forests than all other units? In reality I feel it would be like that, even with Rec inf in a forest, you can't see to far it seems.

I also don't like to see masses of four inf each, especially in small districts. About 2 squads (5-10 people) should be able to hold down a small district of a few key buildings realistically. I kind of liked Inf better in W EE, I could lodge them into a town, and reinforce, pick and choose where I wanted them for ambushes more precisely, and they became something that took ALOT of resources to get rid of, I feel Krauter can attest to that for a few games.

All in all though, I am enjoying it, I just dont like to see masses "Ie groups of all 4", definately infantry but some other units apply. Two games ago, playing with Radioshow and I and 2 others I don't know personally, but I was getting Inf rushed in a forest, so I dropped in 4 squads of marines, 2 and 2 grouped, dominated his weaker inf. Was pushing my way back, and then bam, a mass of about what seemed like 12-16 APCS in groups of four just ran up and destroyed me.

But I understand why people do it, micro is a pain in the rear end, and numbers almost always seem to win. I see alot of 4 groups of ATGM and or LAAD teams, those teams AT MOST should realistically be done in teams of 2. But I get that there is compromise of realism for game sakes.

On the other end, Jets are enjoyable, still getting the hang of them, a different animal for sure. I would complain about this is overpowered, or that isn't, but to me, these are your filler decks, so we will see the beast when it comes out of the cage, Ie. Deck Construction.


But, Krauter, you're okay, I rage too, just silently to myself most of the time :sunny:

[Oberon]

I think the reason you get the APC rushes is because of redundancy. For example, the reason the empty APCs came in during our game was because I had brought in my ATGM infantry in them and now didn't have a use for them, so either one of two things happens to them, either they sit back behind the lines and I forget about them, or I order them on a suicide charge to recon and take out a few enemy units if they can (usually though all it achieves is to give the enemy some cheap points).
Of course, in reality the APCs would hang around and wait for the infantry and move them up, but for most people that's one micromanagement too far, and it is rather irritating not being able to select all infantry and tell them to load in the APCs, rather that you have to tell them what APC to load in to. Fine when you're in a lull in the battle, but when there's lots of things going on, it's a bit of a pain in the arse.

[Arclight]

Infantry should be next to impossible to spot in forests for tanks. The reason infantry works in that context in reality is because they would ambush the things, firing into the side or rear armour. Here they just fire the rockets into the front armour most of the time.

Had some good success splitting platoons into single squads in WEE in the past; 1 squad taking a hit would not affect morale of the others, allowing them to fight back efficiently. Easier to get hits on the side too. As a single platoon their morale would plummet after taking 1 shell, the accuracy and fire rate dropped and they got mopped up.

I agree though that they are too vulnerable in forests. Wouldn't go as far as saying they are useless there, but it requires a lot of management and even then is a bit hit and miss.

[bertieck476]

When you talk about micromanaging infantry, splitting up the platoons and switching off their atgms until they are able to fire at side or rear armour may be more efficient at tank killing but it does take a lot of time when in a battle.

[Arclight]

Well you can actively move to their flank: they don't fire RPG/ATGM on the move.

But yeah, pita.

[Krauter]

Reading on the forums, apparently there is a bug that as soon as units start aiming they lose their "hidden" bonus in cities and forests thus making ambushes difficult.

[reignofdeath]

Reading on the forums, apparently there is a bug that as soon as units start aiming they lose their "hidden" bonus in cities and forests thus making ambushes difficult.

May have been fixed ala the latest patch. I saw lots of reports that it stopped alot of crashes.

[Arclight]

Had some rather successful ambushes last night, including me losing a tank to some infantry in a city; didn't see them until they fired. :yep:

[Arclight]

Had to be done. Relive the Vietnam war... in WAB!
http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj2/EZatHome/2013-04-30_00003_zps511677c9.jpg (http://s268.photobucket.com/user/EZatHome/media/2013-04-30_00003_zps511677c9.jpg.html)

[Oberon]

The Vietnam WAB?

[Oberon]

http://imageshack.us/a/img713/8856/2013043000001j.jpg

http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/812/megustahdbyjaviercentd4.png

[Oberon]

I know T-55As are not the best tank around...and I know that they are not well armoured or usually well commanded...but I do have trouble believing that one 1000kg bomb would suppress fifteen T-55s spread out in a large area... :hmmm:

[Raptor1]

I know T-55As are not the best tank around...and I know that they are not well armoured or usually well commanded...but I do have trouble believing that one 1000kg bomb would suppress fifteen T-55s spread out in a large area... :hmmm:

The morale system has always been Wargame's greatest weakness and it's even worse in AirLand Battle. It just makes no sense whatsoever.

[Arclight]

If you're referring to the bomb on the F-117, then yes it's bloody nonsense. Modeling a bunker-buster to resemble the Tsar Bomba is a bit silly.

[Oberon]

If you're referring to the bomb on the F-117, then yes it's bloody nonsense. Modeling a bunker-buster to resemble the Tsar Bomba is a bit silly.

Worse than that, the F-16A for the Norwegians, drops a Mk-84 with a suppression rating of 1667, compared to the 1500 for the Paveway from the F-117. :doh:

[reignofdeath]

So after playing a pretty good game tonight with randoms in a 4 v 4 which was not really spammed or unbalanced tactics wise at all, I have come to the conclusion that the game is pretty decently balanced, tweaks here and there obviously.

My biggest gripe would be about infantry really, they are to easy to root out of a forest with any vehicle. If you are in the forest as infantry, you should have the advantage hands down, unless you are getting hit with arty I could understand that. Theres also some minor bugs here and there that need fixing the hidden units becoming un hidden when they are aiming comes to mind, and recently I had some units make really stupid moves (Told 2 t80s to go down a hill and take care of leo1s and they backtracked to the road to the side and drove down the road, it was too late.. inf in the trees hit them from the side :( )

The only other thing Ive noticed ALOT of people do is take their 15 or so APCS and use them to obliterate infantry in forests, granted it is easier than keeping them around your inf (Personally, I like to micro them into groups of 2 each and use them to support my dug in infantry or inf advances) but again, when infantry is in the forest, they need to have the upper hand, they are more mobile, can be MUCH stealthier, and just overall deadlier.

So far though, Im getting VERY used to the game now, feels a bit more like EE but not the same which is good. I like the patch they recently put out to tone down Artillery a bit (increased time between salvos and decreased accuracy of mortars a bit and arty) So right now I am liking where it is going.:up:

[Oberon]

Agreed, I've only had one game with an artillery spammer, and even then he was kept at bay with careful F-117 strikes. Fought a pretty tough battle with the vanilla GDR deck the other day, Raptor would have been proud at the state that a town was left in after NATO dug in, then we forced them out and then they counterattacked and forced me out. BM-21s played a large role in redecoration.
There's a few tweaks here and there needed IMHO, that Norwegian F-16s Mk84 acting like a tactical nuke for one, and I did seem to have a very odd selection bug the other night in that GDR match where I had to deselect units rather than select them, I suspect it's to do with the overlay more than anything else. Would be nice to get NATO symbology back at some point, for that Cold War feeling, although the current symbols are quite nice.

[reignofdeath]

Agreed, I've only had one game with an artillery spammer, and even then he was kept at bay with careful F-117 strikes. Fought a pretty tough battle with the vanilla GDR deck the other day, Raptor would have been proud at the state that a town was left in after NATO dug in, then we forced them out and then they counterattacked and forced me out. BM-21s played a large role in redecoration.
There's a few tweaks here and there needed IMHO, that Norwegian F-16s Mk84 acting like a tactical nuke for one, and I did seem to have a very odd selection bug the other night in that GDR match where I had to deselect units rather than select them, I suspect it's to do with the overlay more than anything else. Would be nice to get NATO symbology back at some point, for that Cold War feeling, although the current symbols are quite nice.


You can use them, go to GUI hud and select NATO at the top instead of RTS. However, I quite like the RTS ones now. But with EE style labels I think.

[Krauter]

Hmm I selected NATO style symbols and I still have the RTS style symbols..

[reignofdeath]

Hmm I selected NATO style symbols and I still have the RTS style symbols..


Hmm, did you apply the change :hmmm: I know I didn't a few times because the green "Apply" button just is obscure to me so I forget it then get in game and go "wtf!?":shifty: then I realize what I did and go back and change it :O:

[reignofdeath]

Two more awesome games tonight on W ALB. First one was with my NATO created US Combined Forces Deck, second with my SOVIET Combined forces deck. Did pretty well the first and second time, although second time things got a bit tough, had a patton rush hit me and pucnh through at the end. And Air was harassing me too much, Im too light on ATGM and LAAD inf in that deck :hmmm: I need MOAR.:up:

[reignofdeath]

So.. with the W ALB Beta, what kinds of decks are you guys having success with??

My first deck I built I quite like, It is called USA Combined Forces,

its a bit of an air mobile deck, quite infantry based actually. I have Marines in LAVs as well as Riflemen and STingers, Redeyes, and Dragon IIs in M113 Dragons (I love this combo, just adds to my AT ability in a town since I can hide the APCs all around in forests, I like them alot) I also have Marines in Hueys which allow a fast deployment. I love using the tactic, use the Marines in Hueys, usually about 2 platoons to cap a town, then reinforce with Marines in LAVS, Riflemen and Stingers and ATGMS. My AA is nice, and SEAD resistant (For the most part, no RADAR, I like the Avengers and Chaparals, also have the M113 Vulcan CS which takes up a vehicle slot, and is a bit better than the normal vulcan, it actually allows me an extra 2 activation points which is nice)

I have a decent combination of choppers with a Seahawk, and 2 cobra variants, cannot remember which.

As of now, my planes I am still trying to get the right mix, along with my tanks.

My other deck is a USSR Combined deck, very well panned out, just quite expensive to field in situations that require heavy armour support.

My new deck which I CANNOT wait to try is a Soviet Air Mobile deck of sorts, I was playing around with it in just a private match and I quite like the feel I am getting from it. Enough infantry in choppers to make capturing zones quickly viable and then plenty to back them up and reinforce a town or forest, and all with BMP variants to help with the ATGM situation. The helos are of course the KA 50 for the anti air and anti ground duo, the Hind P and VP. What is nice is with 2 platoons of first wave infantry I get 4 choppers with a mass amount of rockets which is great in the defense role for stuns. Im excited.:D

Sorry for the long winded post fellas:salute:

EDIT:

Eventually, I am going to make more specialized support role decks, obviously for larger games of 4 v 4 where my other teamates will have a certain role to fill, Im thinking something that involves some good decent artillery with a nice heavy dose of logistics, and CAS choppers and planes. As well as plenty of recon and some special situation soldiers, ie spec ops.

[Arclight]

I practically make a new one every game. :haha:

Mostly airlifted and mechanized decks, few armored ones.

But generally it's infantry heavy, 2-4 platoons of ATGM and 2-4 MANPADS, then a pack or regular infantry in IFV and a pack in trucks for cheap reinforcement and defense in depth. Maybe a pack of veteran assault troops or helo-born infantry.

Other standards are FOB, cheap command, supply trucks, IR SAM, unguided AAA, ATGM vehicles, ATGM/gunship helo, air superiority fighters, howitzer battery, mortar battery, recce helo, recce infantry, armored recce. Supplement that with whatever else seems to fill in gaps, like radar SAM for some extra range, flamethrower vehicles, cheap vehicles to support infantry or strike aircraft. Tanks depend on nation really.

[VipertheSniper]

Hi there,

I just got W:EE because it was on the Steam Summersale and played the first campaign map and I wanted to know how to upgrade the units that stay with me throughout the campaign? I know it's probably in this thread somewhere, but it's too bloody long to check all the pages.

[Arclight]

They earn "veterancy" as you use them. You can deploy them in follow-up missions at their higher level (chevrons below the icon iirc).

[VipertheSniper]

They earn "veterancy" as you use them. You can deploy them in follow-up missions at their higher level (chevrons below the icon iirc).

I get that, but now they are in Leo1A1's. how do I get them in vehicles further up the techtree? Or will I just get that crews in new vehicles once I've researched them?

[Arclight]

You earn stars for completing objectives. You can use those to unlock units and variants in the armory.

[VipertheSniper]

You earn stars for completing objectives. You can use those to unlock units and variants in the armory.

Thanks Arclight, I know you're trying to help, but I've read the whole thread about 3 months ago, that was what got me interested in the game.

So will "my" units just get the new gear I unlocked with the stars, when I start the next mission, or do I have to invest ressources other than stars to get them in the now unlocked Leo1A4's

[Arclight]

You have to field them too; buy them in-game. Units don't upgrade apart from gathering experience. If you have the Leo 1 in your deck you'll be able to field any of its variants you have unlocked.

The campaign has restrictions though, think it's based on timeline. Don't expect to field a Leo 1A5 in the 70's for example.

[VipertheSniper]

You have to field them too; buy them in-game. Units don't upgrade apart from gathering experience. If you have the Leo 1 in your deck you'll be able to field any of its variants you have unlocked.

The campaign has restrictions though, think it's based on timeline. Don't expect to field a Leo 1A5 in the 70's for example.

Thanks, that was the answer I was looking for