Surface hydrophone fix?

[IonicRipper]

Is there a small mod/fix to stop the hydrophones from operating on the surface?
I know there is one for SH5 but i dont remember ever seeing one for SH4...

[Hylander_1314]

US Subs had their hydrophones, the round ones, mounted below the waterline so that when surfaced, they would still work. The JT listening gear available later in the war, mounted one on the port quarter foredeck, but they still had the older gear as a backup, and when in the middle of action, the secondary unit seved to keep the skipper informed of what was going on around them so that a DD couldn't as easily sneak up on them.

[IonicRipper]

Huh... I was sure those were just cause i had a male sub... :haha:

But seriously i was convinced they were the sonar equipment, had no idea fleet boats had 2 hydrophones :oops:

[USS Drum]

The S-boat does not have the submerged hydrophones while the fleet boats do, so, if your in a Sugar Boat and spot a warship at random with no Hydrophone contact don't be alarmed.

[Jan Kyster]

...had no idea fleet boats had 2 hydrophones :oops:They had three... http://www.hnsa.org/doc/fleetsub/sonar/index.htm

:smug:

[I'm goin' down]

From the Depths, Kyster strikes again.....

[Sailor Steve]

On the other hand, reading the articles I found this:


As soon as your submarine surfaces, secure the JP gear,
1. Turn the power switch off.
2.Train the hydrophone to 090 degrees if it is installed on the port side, or to 270 degrees if it is on the starboard side. 3. Hang up the headphones carefully. They are a special kind that cannot be replaced while you are on patrol. Other headphones do not work as well on JP gear.

-page 26
This indicates that the hydrophones were switched off while surfaced, making it hard to pick up contacts.

[Hylander_1314]

I wonder if there is any way to impliment this, since it looks like the JP gear was retracted into the hull too? Or if it is hardcoded and un-moddable.

[IonicRipper]

For my defense, my interest for subs started with U-Boats... Im somewhat new to US fleetboats :D

[Hylander_1314]

That's cool! From reading the link posted above, the WCA Listenning Gear could be retracted into the hull to reduce drag on the surface, so in that position, it would be impossible to hear anything while surfaced.

Makes one wonder if it could be modded to do just that?

[TorpX]

That's cool! From reading the link posted above, the WCA Listenning Gear could be retracted into the hull to reduce drag on the surface, so in that position, it would be impossible to hear anything while surfaced.

Makes one wonder if it could be modded to do just that?

There are bigger problems with the way sound works in the game, and unfortunately, they seem to be unfixable.

[Hylander_1314]

Yeah, the work the modders did for SH4 has been phenominal, and all the little details like this one would have been done years ago if they were fixable.

Just thinkin' outloud is all.

[Mescator]

On the other hand, reading the articles I found this:

This indicates that the hydrophones were switched off while surfaced, making it hard to pick up contacts.

Isn't JP sonar the one mounted on the Bow though? That would be above water when surfaced.

Correct me if im wrong, but i thought WCA was, as the others have said, operation due to it's under keel location.

[Sailor Steve]

The Sonar Operator's Manual begins here:
http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/sonar/chap1.htm#1A

I'm not sure which is which, even reading the article. I don't see that it matters, though. If the orders are to turn everything off and stow the headphones when surfaced, it doesn't really matter which rig the operator isn't listening to.

[TorpX]

I don't know much about the technicalities and the different sound equiptment, but O'Kane mentions using it on the surface. There was concern that when they were on the surface, motionless, that they would be vulnerable to an enemy sub sneaking up on them. The remedy was to have the hydrophones manned and listen. IIRC, they tested this technique inbetween patrols with another fleetboat trying to sneak up to torpedo range while they were motionless. He said they were able to detect the approaching sub in this way. I don't know if this was a common practice, though.

[Sailor Steve]

Well, if Dick O'Kane says he did it then he did it. It sounds like the same thing that happened early on with the magnetic torpedo pistols: Enterprising captains took it upon themselves to ignore the book and experiment with pretty much everything. Of course a gamer has 20/20 hindsight and can say "See? He did it!"

Whatever the case may be as far as general usage, I'm betting that once again it works a whole lot better in the game than it did in real life. Still, I imagine that listening for a submerged sub would work the same way it did for a surface ship.

[TorpX]

I assume that it worked because they were not running the diesels. (Don't know about the sea conditions either.) I remember it because of the way he mentioned there being anxiety about remaining motionless on the surface. I gathered the crew was a little skeptical about this.

It's too bad sound wasn't modeled better in the game.

[EricW]

Isn't JP sonar the one mounted on the Bow though? That would be above water when surfaced.

Correct me if im wrong, but i thought WCA was, as the others have said, operation due to it's under keel location.

You're right, WCA heads are on the bottom, and retractable for when moving at speed on the surface (or laying on the bottom)......you can't hear anything through them (just water noise) if you're got any appreciable speed on (the game DOESN'T seem to model that). The JP is on top-mounted and useless on the surface so it would be secured until the boat submerges again. The manual seems to use the term 'hydrophone' for each (they ARE both underwater microphones, I guess).

[Zaitochisan]

In Thunder Below by Admiral Eugene B. Fluckney Of the USS Barb, he describes using one set for monitoring his own torpedoes, and those of other wolf pack members, because despite having the mark 18 (had depth issues too) as well as the 'fixed' mk14s there was still regular occurances of rogue fish, sometimes because of a poor exit from the tubes those with a lateral jolt most worrying but broaching too.
Obviously he could only observe the exit while on the surface.

Some point he did mention each by designation:
Quote: "QB sonar get on those torpedoes!"

I do notice that he was able to get far closer on the surface during surface attacks, regularly target ASW shipping successfully because he could get close enough both surfaced or submerged, dive fast if necessary and out fox IJN sensors far more reliably than I can in the game both pre and post attack.
For example:
He fired 6 fish 10 sec intervals on the pride of the tanker fleet 'Azusa Maru' 1800yds and Carrier CVE 'Unyo' 20321t 2100yds on the surface with an escort frigate "Bone in her teeth" at 700 yards (!!!) then continued firing while diving.

Interestingly he also mentions other sensors for plotting rough depth charge distance and location.

==================================

Reference: The Fleet Type Submarine Online
Submarine Sonar Operator's Manual,
https://maritime.org/doc/fleetsub/sonar/chap1.htm

Submarine Sonar Operator's Manual, Navpers 16167, is one of a series of submarine training manuals that was completed just after WW II. The series describes the peak of WW II US submarine technology.

Example:
JK/QC is the Navy term for one type of supersonic gear. The JK half of the combination projector is for listening only; the QC half can also be used for sending out sounds into the water.

QB designates the other type. As indicated by the letter Q, the QB projector can send as well as receive sounds.

Sonic gear is useful for picking up targets at great distances because sonic sounds travel farther. Also, on the JP gear sounds appear more natural and are more easily recognized. Therefore, you can identify not only the machinery noises of enemy ships, but also any telltale noises your own submarine is making.

Supersonic gear is useful for picking up the important supersonic noises that sonic cannot get. Supersonic gear is especially superior for catching the bursts of supersonic sound used by enemy escort vessels in searching for our submarines. (In addition, QB and QC gear can be used to send out sounds into the water to determine the range of an enemy ship.)

The WCA Installation

The WCA Installation on a submarine includes all the sonar gear that handles supersonic sounds. Much of this equipment is grouped in the conning tower, where it is known as the "WCA Stack." To locate all the various units, let us subdivide WCA into its two main parts:

QB Gear has its receiver-amplifier and remote-control unit in the conning tower. The projector is mounted on the starboard shaft and extends just below the keel under the forward torpedo room. The electric training mechanism for turning the projector is in the forward torpedo room.

JK/QC Gear also has its receiver-amplifier and remote-control unit in the conning tower, and its training mechanism in the forward torpedo room. The double-faced projector extends just below the keel on the port side, opposite the QB projector. A range indicator, used with either QB or QC, is also part of the WCA stack in the conning tower.

NOTE: The WCA Installation also includes NM gear (in the control room), which is used for determining the depth of the water beneath the keel.

=================
There is loads more naturally !!! I am sure this manual has been mentioned elsewhere on the forums before.
:ping:

[Aktungbby]

Zaitochisan!:Kaleun_Salute: after an eight year silent run! The thread is a five year old necro so it's a total resurrection all 'round!:Kaleun_Cheers: