Hu Jintao tells China navy: Prepare for warfare

[Gerald]

China's navy should speed up its development and prepare for warfare, President Hu Jintao has said.He told military personnel they should "make extended preparations for warfare".China is locked in territorial disputes with several other nations in the South China Sea. Political tension is also growing with the US, which is seeking to boost its presence in the region.After Mr Hu's comments, the US said China was entitled to defend itself."Nobody's looking for a scrap here," said Pentagon spokesman Admiral John Kirby in quotes carried by the AFP news agency. "Certainly we wouldn't begrudge any other nation the opportunity to develop naval forces."Senior US and Chinese officials are currently holding talks on military issues.The one-day meeting takes places every year, with the stated aim of ensuring there are no misunderstandings between the two nations.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-16063607

Note: 7 December 2011 Last updated at 05:31 GMT

[Skybird]

It may be a reply to Obama's announcement to send 2500 special forces and instructors to Australia.

Anyhow, the job of any armed forces is to fight war. And in peacetimes to prepare for war by training how to fight it. It's job is not to drill waterholes and build hospitals in other nations, it'S job is not to create new forms of social life in foreign cultures, or to build schools. The decision over war and peace is made by politicians. But the decision on what the role of the armed forces should be, must n ot be made anymore, since that is already being answered by calling an army an army, and not the boyscouts, the Technisches Hilfswerk, the social engineering brigade or the human developement chorps.

Especially Germans have too many bees in their bonnets over what role the armed forces should (=could) play. Aid work and developement organisations build. Armies destroy (what is or belongs to the enemy).

[Gerald]

Good thinking,:yep:

[CCIP]

Conveniently coinciding with the anniversary of Pearl Harbor? :06:

[Gerald]

Conveniently coinciding with the anniversary of Pearl Harbor? :06: Doubtful...

[Ducimus]

I always find this map disturbing.
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/56809000/jpg/_56809598__48951920_south_china-sea_1_466-1.jpg

[soopaman2]

I am sure he has seen this. if he is referring to the United States.
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/7204/fleetmap1.gif

China may be wealthy, but they are still second rate in comparison.

[Skybird]

I always wondered what happened to the 1st and 2nd fleet. Dissappeared in the Bermuda Triangle?

Anyhow, China, in case of war, would not need to scatter its forces around the whole globe. How much and what kind of combat force each side can project - and maintain! - into the theatre of operation - that is the interesting thing, plus reaction and support (or lack of) of own home public.

[soopaman2]

I always wondered what happened to the 1st and 2nd fleet. Dissappeared in the Bermuda Triangle?

Anyhow, China, in case of war, would not need to scatter its forces over the whole globe. How much and what kind of combat force each side can project - and maintain! - into the theatre of operation - that is the interesting thing.


Floater fleets? Super secret?
Or retired in shame? Similar to the Legion numbers of Varus' destroyed legions in Teutoberg forest?

Any USN folks know?:salute:

[frau kaleun]

According to Wikipedia:

The First Fleet was a unit of the United States Navy, in operation from as early as 1946 (but definitely active by 1948 as the First Task Fleet) to 1 February 1973 in the western Pacific Ocean as part of the Pacific Fleet. In 1973, it was disestablished and its duties assumed by the Third Fleet.

United States Second Fleet was a numbered fleet in the United States Navy from 1950 until its disestablishment in September 2011. Second Fleet's area of responsibility included approximately 6,700,000 square miles (17,000,000 km2) of the Atlantic Ocean from the North Pole to the Caribbean and from the shores of the United States to the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.

On January 6, 2011, it was reported via a DoD news article that the Navy would disestablish Second Fleet in order to "use those savings and more to fund additional ships." The fleet was officially dissolved in a ceremony at Norfolk on 30 September 2011.

Second Fleet's responsibilities and its additional title of Commander, Task Force 20, were transferred to the re-organized United States Fleet Forces Command, as was the post of CJOS COE, which was renamed CJFS COE.

As for the rest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fleets#Modern_US_Navy_fleets

:DL

[Skybird]

Ah. :up:

Of course I meant 4th Fleet when asking about (still existing) 2nd fleet. It seesm the 4th is a paper fleet without own ressources, but being called back to duty some years ago. Theatre of responsibility: Caribean, and Southern America. Ressources will be taken from 2nd fleet, when needed.

Ghost fleets. Great idea. Reminds me of the final battle in LOTR.

Edit. What, 2nd fleet just disestablished a month ago? But the other fleets are still there, eh? I must ask this: are there any American warships sailing the sea at all, or is it just a media stunt? :D

[Gerald]

According to Wikipedia:





As for the rest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fleets#Modern_US_Navy_fleets

:DLI am grateful for the extraordinary facts that Frau captain now has handed over to the members' hands on SubSim.com these facts, we regard as an honor to have access, and that is appreciated around the world, :arrgh!:

[soopaman2]

I am grateful for the extraordinary facts that Frau captain now has handed over to the members' hands on SubSim.com these facts, we regard as an honor to have access, and that is appreciated around the world, :arrgh!:

We love our Frau, and would drop 2 nukes on Japanese cities just to keep her.:salute:

Now lets play a game of risk with said fleet map. Move the Med fleet to east coast USA (defense) (Brits and France cover us in Med). Indian ocean fleet sails offshore China.
East coast fleet moves to the West coast in defense, And pacific fleets sail to china.

That is 3 Armadas we can bring to bear without sacrificing our own homeland. (I am not worried about your countries, nor should we be)

I speak the high praise of our high-tech missile cruisers, and the fact our Navy Aviators (face it, we have more practice in actual warfare) are the best in the world.

I'd put money on this.

[Krauter]

We love our Frau, and would drop 2 nukes on Japanese cities just to keep her.:salute:



http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRA8Dh13fuBB5aBDMCNEimPoX8E44mOB YutxVn7fiab-ymV8vWe

[frau kaleun]

Um yeah... can we just skip the whole dropping nukes on people business? Most people only consider that kind of wanton destruction when they're trying to get rid of me. ;)






Also if there's anybody in Sweden who can, I don't know, maybe get Vendor laid... that might not be a bad thing. I'm just sayin'. :O:

[geetrue]

A Romanian man named Dumitru Duduman had a vision of America going to war with China and Russia protecting their neighbor with a surprise attack on USA, but it all had something to do with Israel being surrounded by it's enemies after the USA was taken out ...

The rest gets boring and brings up the dreaded name of ______________ :o

a side note is that Dumitru has been called a false prophet due to he thought this would happen before he died in 1997, but oh what a man he was to stand up to the KGB and deliver over 50,000 bibles into Russia from Romania

Funny how India is also gearing up for war though, an undersea war that is.

It wouldn't surprise me if we had to defend say Tawain for instance and it gets out of hand.

[nikimcbee]

When Hu is talking about a fleet, he means a fleet of debt collectors, sailing east.

Hu to US: "Where's my money?"


Here's the actual message the Chinese sent to the bamster.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnuodLiCGzY&feature=related

[TLAM Strike]

Does this mean the Chinese navy has been unprepared for warfare all along?

Damn we missed our opportunity to walk over them in a day...

... looks like its going to take two days to destroy the PLAN; they are now "prepared".

:03:

[Skybird]

The Chinese navy is the second-biggest in the world (while they have the biggest trader fleet worldwide, which is planned to be turned into a military role during war), structured into three fleets. China also is the country with the biggest pool of sailors, ship-building capacity, dockyards and harbours.

They currently undergo an accelerating modernisation program. Right now they are said to lack in communications, and air-defence. But they have a number of submarines - 68 or 86, I forgot - that should make any enemy worry. Many boats - and increasingly more of them - are modern types (amongst them around 10 Kilos of the latest type), armed with cruise missiles. The missile armaments of the surface combatants also is being improved rapidly. The topography of the waters that likely would be disputed, for the most favours submarines in many locations, making them difficult to detect. But China is also boosting its blue water capacities as well.

China has a huge arsenal of missiles of all kind, many of them being available in huge quantities, especially land-based models. This and the nearness of Chinese airbases makes any fight in the vicinity of the Chinese homeland a very daring task already, with unpredictable outcome. Numbers beat quality and experience form a certain treshhold ratio on - we learned that at the latest from the Wehrmacht in Russia.

Several vulnerable key allies of the US, namely South Korea and Japan, also Australia - are in striking range of the Chinese military, namely missiles. US planners expect the Chinese to be capable to maintain huge military operations for up to several months and beyond a 400 miles distance to China from 2015 on. Right now, they get quoted, they can do that for several weeks and at ranges of up to 400 miles.

Needless to say that the American logistical chain would be extremely long and extremely vulnerable. Whereas the Chinense would fight over Taiwan or the Chinese Sea practically on their supply bases's doorsteps.

From 2014 or 2015 on the Chinese plan to project a standing military force into the Indian ocean.

The Chinese work on control logic to fire conventionally re-armed ICBMs at naval targets, especially carriers.

The Chinese Air Force maintains roughly 1200 fighter planes, the overwhelming majorty of them interceptors. Modern types copying Russian models or being bought from Russia have started to replace the older models in huge numbers.

The public in both countries I assume to be such that high losses of the armed forces are more likely to be tolerated in China, than in the US. Which would mean the American government coming under pressure much earlier than the Chinese.

Conclusion: war with China over Taiwan or the Chinese Sea should not be taken lightly. While it is not certain that the Chinese would win, the outcome should be seen as unpredictable enough to conclude that an American victory is far from being guaranteed. The balance keeps constantly shifting in China's favour. The longer a war would last, the more likely China would win. For an American victory it would be decisive to gain a defeat of the Chinese fast and early. An ongoing war in the region I assume to be unwinnable for the US.

P.S. One thing I forgot: no other nation on Earth has a greater number of sea mines in its arsenal, than China.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

US planners expect the Chinese to be capable to maintain huge military operations for upü to severla mon ths and beyond a 400 miles distance to China from 2015 on. Right now, they get quoted, they can do that for several weeks and at ranges of up to 400 miles.

Can you provide link to this assessment? Thanks.

[Skybird]

Can you provide link to this assessment? Thanks.
German newspapers of the past 1-2 years, I assume . I quote it all by memory. The quote you especiaslly ask about is definitely from a German site specialised on foreign politics, could have been https://ip-journal.dgap.org/ But do not ask me aboiut the essay'S title - I do not cover China systematically - just reading the news media.

[Gerald]

German newspapers of the past 1-2 years, I assume . I quote it all by memory. The quote you especiaslly ask about is definitely from a German site specialised on foreign politics, could have been https://ip-journal.dgap.org/ But do not ask me aboiut the essay'S title - I do not cover China systematically - just reading the news media. Whoops .... you say surely that you also have a memory, "I quote it all by memory",:salute:

[Skybird]

Hm...? :06:

[Gerald]

Um yeah... can we just skip the whole dropping nukes on people business? Most people only consider that kind of wanton destruction when they're trying to get rid of me. ;)






Also if there's anybody in Sweden who can, I don't know, maybe get Vendor laid... that might not be a bad thing. I'm just sayin'. :O: It just gets better and better, :har:

[Gerald]

Hm...? :06: Sky,it was a superlative that you have a good memory, :yep:

[Skybird]

Hm. I quote it only by memory for sure, I do not have any saved essays, lists with links, or a book on Chinese military.

[Gerald]

Hm. I quote it only by memory for sure, I do not have any saved essays, lists with links, or a book on Chinese military. Good, even better :DL

[Jimbuna]

When Hu is talking about a fleet, he means a fleet of debt collectors, sailing east.

Hu to US: "Where's my money?"


Here's the actual message the Chinese sent to the bamster.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnuodLiCGzY&feature=related

LOL :DL

Does this mean the Chinese navy has been unprepared for warfare all along?

Damn we missed our opportunity to walk over them in a day...

... looks like its going to take two days to destroy the PLAN; they are now "prepared".

:03:

I don't see the Chinese catching up with the US in the next twenty years...especially in blue water naval terms.

[geetrue]

China has money and money spells power ...

All that Admiral Hu Jintao wants is a bigger fleet to control.

His needs are based on fear and fear needs more money for his
fleet to survive a war that has yet to come and that spells power to me.

[Sea Demon]

Does this mean the Chinese navy has been unprepared for warfare all along?

Damn we missed our opportunity to walk over them in a day...

... looks like its going to take two days to destroy the PLAN; they are now "prepared".

:03:

I wouldn't be so dismissive of China's undersea component and missiles. That could be a big mistake.

[TLAM Strike]

I wouldn't be so dismissive of China's undersea component and missiles. That could be a big mistake.
I'll take them seriously when one their boomers make a deterrent patrol, and their annual sortie rate per submarine is more than once every three years. :03:

[Gerald]

I'll take them seriously when one their boomers make a deterrent patrol, and their annual sortie rate per submarine is more than once every three years. :03:....and they had things like this recently,:hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

I'll take them seriously when one their boomers make a deterrent patrol, and their annual sortie rate per submarine is more than once every three years. :03:

Precisely :yep:

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

I'll take them seriously when one their boomers make a deterrent patrol, and their annual sortie rate per submarine is more than once every three years. :03:

To be fair on the latter, it is not clear whether sortie means "any time it put out to port" or what the Americans call "Patrols" and Russians call "Combat Service". If it is the latter, they may be less unready than you think.

Also, it is not clear WHICH submarines got those sorties. It would probably be concentrated among the best subs and the Romeos and Mings getting none.

Certainly, they were good enough to penetrate an American battle group.