View Full Version : Russia - Most Dangerous place to fly....
Russian Civil aviation is in a bit of mess by the looks of it,
http://news.sky.com/home/video/16100593
And to think I get neverous enough on super safe Boeings and Airbuses. :o
Nikkolo
11-16-11, 05:03 AM
Soo... I won't be flying in those planes.. my god
Check out this awesome Boeing build video :DL Amazing how are liners are mostly still assembled by hand
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBPY34jCmos&feature=related
Kazuaki Shimazaki II
11-16-11, 05:31 AM
... the thrust of the entire video seems intent on blaming every air accident that happened in Russia this year on Russian aircraft, thus making a nice propaganda to buy Western (and thus destroy what's left of the Russian aviation industry).
Taking a quick glance of the incidents suggest pilot error or other failures to the the cause of most of said crashes.
... the thrust of the entire video seems intent on blaming every air accident that happened in Russia this year on Russian aircraft, thus making a nice propaganda to buy Western (and thus destroy what's left of the Russian aviation industry).
Taking a quick glance of the incidents suggest pilot error or other failures to the the cause of most of said crashes.
When you say 'pilot error or other problems' - what other problems? maintenance perhaps? The video covers why the crashes are usually blamed on pilot error, its to protect what is left of the industry. The Video does have a certain amount of spin, but it doesnt change the fact that Russian Civil aviation is not in good health.
The problem is unlikley to be Russian aircraft design which has always been extremely solid. But poor maintainance and life expired planes is recipie for disaster.
We are talking about human lives at stake, so better to either swallow ones pride and buy better maintained planes from abroad...
- OR someone needs to give the Russian Civil Aviation some serious invenstment so they can produce more than 1 new plane a year and start exporting.
But with the failure rate of Russian airliners so proportionally high, it gives them a bad reputation, making it harder to compete with Airbus and Boeing who dominate the market.
But Remember we should remember that we are only talking about Russian civil aviation, its military Aviation is doing just fine :D
PapaKilo
11-16-11, 07:15 AM
But Remember we should remember that we are only talking about Russian civil aviation, its military Aviation is doing just fine :D
Nothing is doing just fine in Russia =]
jet fighters and helicopters also are good to crash there.
Make some research and it will proove you wrong about military aviation =]
PapaKilo
11-16-11, 07:26 AM
Only in Russia:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmIhdVehEco&feature=related (Part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H20LeRWG828&feature=related (Part 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zx3daBbGlU&feature=related (Part 3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24aeAL2vZww&feature=related (Part 4)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MFyUg229IA&feature=related (Part 5)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ME8HbZsqmuk (Part 6)
Kazuaki Shimazaki II
11-16-11, 07:34 AM
When you say 'pilot error or other problems' - what other problems? maintenance perhaps?
Generally, if you can pin it down to a maintenance problem, now it is not the pilot's fault, would it?
Anyway, there are some problems with traffic control (the ancient Russian airacraft that are crashing are generally in the Russian boonies, while the newfangled Boeings and Airbuses get relatively nice facilities like Domodevo and international routes).
The video covers why the crashes are usually blamed on pilot error, its to protect what is left of the industry. The Video does have a certain amount of spin, but it doesnt change the fact that Russian Civil aviation is not in good health.
Oh, I agree, and its health is not improved by this video. This film is only half a step up from those Japanese netizens who almost laughed out loud when those two Chinese high-speed trains collided a couple months ago.
We are talking about human lives at stake, so better to either swallow ones pride and buy better maintained planes from abroad...
- OR someone needs to give the Russian Civil Aviation some serious invenstment so they can produce more than 1 new plane a year and start exporting.
But with the failure rate of Russian airliners so proportionally high, it gives them a bad reputation, making it harder to compete with Airbus and Boeing who dominate the market.
But Remember we should remember that we are only talking about Russian civil aviation, its military Aviation is doing just fine :D
Call me a Russophile but in the long run Option 2 is probably better for Russia. They need some competitive secondary industry, and since it would never be cars, personal computers, VCRs or the like, at least with planes they have a chance.
They really need a break, away from Americans who make this kind of film, so their new generation planes can actually get rolling and replacing the older generation planes.
Russian stuff is fine, it's Chinese made stuff that explodes at random.
But seriously though, I wouldn't underestimate Russian equipment, if properly maintained and kept it can be the equal of something western built. As we found out when the wall fell down during the tests in Germany. :doh:
PapaKilo
11-16-11, 08:38 AM
Russian stuff is fine, it's Chinese made stuff that explodes at random.
But seriously though, I wouldn't underestimate Russian equipment, if properly maintained and kept it can be the equal of something western built. As we found out when the wall fell down during the tests in Germany. :doh:
Russians make stuff to serve for you like for 50 years forward.
why ?
Because they think it's already perfect and there's nothing more to improve :DL
Sad isn't it ? Mentality of non progressing country..
Imagine you baught a soviet style fridge 40 years ago. Today - the out dated design no how fits your newly made kitchen upkeep. It makes loud noise
when it's motor is working, but you made up with it long time ago. White Interior panel, will never come back and now it looks somewhat yelowish-white,
since it was new only 40 years ago. Power saving ? Are you kidding me ? People never thought about this in soviet union back at the time.
Despite you clean the interior regulary you can't rid of the smell of soured milk mixed with a smell of ham, since it doens't have common anti-bacterium
technology installed.
What's left of Positive is - It still makes noise and works. It never broke down for you whole 40 years of service.
That's what you get if you buy russian stuff basicly.
At least the stuff worked that way made in soviet union. =]
Skybird
11-16-11, 08:55 AM
Russia has a well-known tradition of always claiming "pilot's error" first when something happened. They do it by reflex to prevent examination of other factors as well: aircraft, maintenance, tower, TRACON communications, etc. - all those things that in case beign found "guilty" would cost them more money. It is cheaper to just blame it on a dead man. - The case of the Polish presidential machine crashing should be excluded here, since it is distorting the discussion due to the high profile of the case, and the many indices that the pilots' responsibility to decide were interferred by ground staff and the staff of the president aboard, at the same time.
Nothing is doing just fine in Russia =]
jet fighters and helicopters also are good to crash there.
Make some research and it will proove you wrong about military aviation =]
Western jets and helis crash too you know.
Anyway my point being that many nations BUY military aircraft from Russia, their military aircraft can compete with western designs of the same type and era. E.g a Sukhoi PAK FA could give an F-22 a run for its money (and visa versa.) Both are exceptional machines.
PapaKilo
11-16-11, 09:09 AM
Western jets and helis crash too you know.
Anyway my point being that many nations BUY military aircraft from Russia, their military aircraft can compete with western designs. E.g a Sukhoi PAK FA could give an F-22 a run for its money (and visa versa.)
Let's guess what countrys are keen to buy russian aircraft or any other military technology instead of western.
1. Belarus.
2. N. Korea
3. Venezuela
4. Lybia (under Gadaffi Regime)
5. Syria
6. China (probably)
Simple answer is - plain politics and discounts for stuff that comes together with it.
Russia is strongly lacking behind in technologies and it is not a secret to anyone.
As an example: History itself explains the fact that trade of military equipment has strong links with politics is the war in Vietnam.
So what? A sale is a sale.
PapaKilo
11-16-11, 09:51 AM
So what? A sale is a sale.
For shortsighted it's just a sale.
You don't see any similarities between these countries ?
For shortsighted it's just a sale.
You don't see any similarities between these countries ?
Yes I do, but what are you trying to say?
Russia has a history of selling weapons to countries of similar political alignment or nations that west chooses not to trade with... Countries trade in everything from food to weapons, whats the big deal?
For the Record Venzula has x20 F-16s, China has x24 blackhawks, while Iran of all places has x65 F4's and x44 F14 Tomcats..... Im pretty sure Russia didnt sell them those.
PapaKilo
11-16-11, 10:11 AM
Yes I do, but what are you trying to say?
Russia has a history of selling weapons to countries of similar political alignment... As do western Superpowers. Thats just how it works, whats the big deal?
You already answered your question, the big deal is not in the quality of military equipment, but in the politics.
PapaKilo
11-16-11, 10:20 AM
And if you watched the videos I've put, you may find that flying itself isn't the only thing that is dangerous in Russia.
And? the US, UK, France etc does the same, they often sell off their out dated hardware to underdeveloped (and some time less than stable) countries in exchange for any number of things. its just business. Most of the Russian ties you mentioned come from the Cold war era -which was less than 30 years ago.
Edit: I watch your videos and its the same kind of crazy stuff people do all over the world, not just in Russia.
PapaKilo
11-16-11, 10:37 AM
I believe that when western countries sell their old equipment to other nations it really is just a business, but when Russia does this, it means there's something more along that line.
I think that Russia still owns that cold war era stench and spreads it silently.
Because as far as I know, there is no free economical trades that wouldn't be affected by politics in Russia.
I believe that when western countries sell their old equipment to other nations it really is just a business, but when Russia does this, it means there's something more along that line.
Well, thats not strictly true, historically speaking. Afganistan and Cambodia are examples of nations being 'tooled up' by the West for politcal reasons.
Modern day Russia does indeed still have many of its Soviet era elements, but I dont think it has any real love for Syria, N.korea, Venezuela etc, I think in these cases they just sell what they can to whoever they can.
I dont think the Russian / western arms trades are all that mutch different to be honest, occasionally they're is a government sponsored politcal agenda, but alot of the time these guys will just sell to whoever whats to buy (up to a point) There isn't exactly alot of moral fibre in the arms trade...or in any effective salesman for that matter :D
Jimbuna
11-16-11, 11:08 AM
Check out this awesome Boeing build video :DL Amazing how are liners are mostly still assembled by hand
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBPY34jCmos&feature=related
Great video....here is similar of a 747 but the quality isn't quite as good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayTpqX-tvbE&feature=related
Task Force
11-16-11, 01:05 PM
IN SOVI.... err RUSSIA PLANE FLYS YOU!:DL
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