[Q] about adding periscope controllers

[Radio]

Is it possible to add the periscope raise/lower device from the german subs to the american periscope? I know that the pageUp and -down thing works, but what about a clickable version?

Sorry if that has been asked before but the site search produced too much results and i could not find any answers.

[CapnScurvy]

It's possible to put any 2D image onto a 2D game screen but having the functionality is another matter.

You're asking if the toggle switch of the German periscope can be placed onto the American screen. Yes, it can. Will it have the same function? Nope, It won't have a function at all. The problem isn't in putting the image where you want, but linking the image to a command that the game recognizes. The game recognizes the German periscope toggle switch image from the menu_1024_768.ini file [G26 I42] & [G26 I43] entries as being linked to raising/lowering of the scope. But, this "link" is done in the main game engine files which we don't have access to.

There is a file called Commands.cfg, found in the Data\Cfg\ folder, but look all you want, there is nothing in there that links the image from the menu_1024 file to the "Toggle_RiseLower_whole_periscope" command. The Commands.cfg file is mainly for linking "keyboard keys" to commands, not mouse captured commands.

A long time ago, I tried to put the Navigation Tools onto the Attack Map so you could use the pencil or protractor as we do on the Nav Map. I could get them to appear as they do for the Nav Map, but nothing worked. There was no way of linking the function to the mouse control with the files we have access to.

Lately, I tried to place buttons onto the American Torpedo Panel, with the hope of having them linked to the function of "Toggle_open_close_torpedo_tube" as their command.


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w132/crawlee/Torpedo.jpg


Nope, just been a waste of time.

Ideas, we got plenty of. Allowable ways of doing them are limited or nonexistent.

[Radio]

Many many thanks, CapnScurvy, you saved me a lot of headaches and time! Before I read this I tried to give some buttons in the commandbar the raise_periscope function and had a tiny success, the button works ,but only for a splitsecond, one would have to click like 30 times to get the periscope up all the way. :DL

I even tried to use a double command in the commandbar.cfg e.g. raise_periscope;raise_periscope as the engine seems to understand two arguments in a IF case. Sadly the double command does not work.


Would have been nice to also autolower the SD radar when crashdiving...

oh welll.

Anyway, thks again! :up:

[CapnScurvy]

As a follow up, I want to clarify that a 2D screen is different than a 3D modeled screen.

For instance, the periscope screen with the Position Keeper, Attack Data Tool, Torpedo Panel are a part of a 2D screen made up from entries in the menu_1024_768.ini file. It also has a "camera" image added to the screen to show the world outside, through the periscope view. This type of screen can be modded, but you have to work within the framework of what the game gives us. The images can be changed, but just adding a new function, all on its own, probably won't work. You have to take an already working function and transform it to whatever you create in order to get it to do something. That's how I have the Omnimeter in the Optical Targeting Correction mod workable. I'm actually using the "Message Box" stock game lighter/darker slider controls as the controls for the two Range and AoB scale sliders for the Omnimeter. I took a working game function and applied it to a new and different function to make the tool.

A 3D screen image is different in that you can create a completely new object, and with new entries can make it function by adding new "nodes" & parameters. An example are the Sonar or Radar screens. These screens are made up of 3D models that have a lot more flexibility in where they are put and what you can add. There is still one drawback though. The commands to make an object function are still controlled by a specific number of commands. If the command doesn't exist, you can't pull one out of thin air and make it work. For instance, adding a range digital readout for the American radar unit (like the German side) would be a great improvement. It would allow us to receive range to a target, using radar (which was exactly what occurred during the war). The problem with the games German radar digital readout is that it only reads in meters! The Dev's didn't but the function of using the Imperial unit measurement with the German digital radar display!? So, we could easily put the German digital readout onto the American radar unit, but it will only read in meters, no matter what unit of measurement that's chosen on the options page.

A lot of work for nothing.

[Nisgeis]

If the command doesn't exist, you can't pull one out of thin air and make it work. For instance, adding a range digital readout for the American radar unit (like the German side) would be a great improvement. It would allow us to receive range to a target, using radar (which was exactly what occurred during the war).


TMO 2.2 has a US radar range unit, which displays the range to targets digitally. It's not automagic, like the German side (unrealistically) is, consequently it allows you to measure the distance to any target, not just the closest one, which is a flaw in the German side's implementation.

[CapnScurvy]

Yes it does Nisgeis, the trouble with it (besides only reading in metric unit of measurements) is the digits are backwards.

In other words the target is at a 916 meter range (1000 yards if it read correctly). The digits read 0619.

Can it be fixed, sure but why bother? It's reading in meters. Playing the American side, use the U.S. Customary unit of measurement (Imperial for you Europeans).

OTC removed the readout for TMO.

[Nisgeis]

No and no. You're wrong.

[CapnScurvy]

No and no. You're wrong.


I'm wrong about what?



What proof do you have to say I'm wrong??



For those that know me, I don't make idol statements without knowing what I'm talking about. Statements I make are backed up with evidence. Evidence and proof that anyone can check for it's validity.

Without knowing what you take exception with I'll have to make a random guess.

You think I'm wrong that the TMO radar digital readout only reads in metric units? Or, you think I'm wrong that the readout is backwards?

Well let's see.

I have the game with both "TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2" and "TMO_Update_20_to_22" activated. It's July 1, 1944 with a Porpoise class sub. Do you recognize the TMO interface? The Imperial unit of measurement is enabled, you can tell by the depth dial readout of 16 ft.


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w132/crawlee/Porpoise.jpg



The sub is facing South. Directly in front of it is a target set at 1000 yards.



http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w132/crawlee/1000yards.jpg


The following picture shows the Porpoise radar A-Scope, with the same target on the scope.

Let's see, if we are using the Imperial unit of measurement the radar digital readout for the same target will read 1000 yards won't it?


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w132/crawlee/519.jpg


It reads 519!?!

519??? Hmmmmmm You say I'm wrong that the readout is backwards? Well let's just turn it around, shall we? 519 is 915. Can anyone tell me what 1000 yards distance is equal to in meters?

916 you say? Why yes, that's right!

So, the readout reads in metric units of measurement? AND is backwards to boot!

No, I'm not wrong so far.

How about my statement that in America we use the U.S. Customary System of Measurement, not the Imperial system. Why don't you look it up? We don't use the Imperial Gallon for milk or gasoline. We threw out the Imperial system about the time we threw out the British. Well, maybe not quite, but in World War II we sure didn't use it. Nor, did we use the Metric System either (outside of using millimeters for some gun and ammunition sizes).

So, I don't know what your talking about. Obviously, you don't either.

[Nisgeis]

CapnScurvy, I don't know why you are taking this overly sarcastic and aggressive tone in your posts. I've never done anything negative to you and I've never denied you permission to use anything of mine, nor would I. I didn't post any evidence, as I don't need to and I thank you for posting your own screenshots, as I don't really have time anymore to mess about with mods and running up SH4 and taking screenshots and posting them, just to debunk something which isn't right. You're right that you are usually very thorough.

I was slightly perturbed by your tone, so I decided to keep it short and simple, plus I was short on time and doing all of the above loading and uploading images and linking is a time drain. But to elaborate -

I don't know what it is you are running in those screenshots, but it's certaily not TMO 2.2. I have just loaded up TMO 2.2 and tested it and it definately is in yards and there are no backwards digits and it gives accurate radar ranges up to 40,000 yards, which you will note requires five dials, not four and also a different approach to that you say I used (The 'why bother' approach). Perhaps you have some mod soup going on? There is a link in the TMO thread to what it should look like with quite a few screenshots of the various bits.

The 3D TDC is also quite useful and I did find it a bit odd that you'd decided to delete both it and the radar range unit for your 'TMO 2.2 compatible' version of the OTC. Perhaps your version of TMO 2.2 didn't have it in? :hmmm:

EDIT: Oh yes and regaring 'If the command doesn't exist, you can't pull one out of thin air and make it work' - I found a way to pull it out of thin air and it was a great deal of work, assited by the able bodied Hitman. You're also right that having a readout for the US radar is a great improvement - it makes tracking targets in fog or heavy rain a possibility. It's also not limitted like the German radar in that the German radar will only pick up the nearest target which can be an issue when tracking multiple lanes of traffic, whereas the US version allows you to measure the distance to any target and in the same way that it was done in real life.

[CapnScurvy]

Nisgeis, I don't like to be told I'm wrong when I know I'm right. Especially when the guy that's saying so doesn't provide proof of his accusations!!


I do see one thing that's disturbing, I believe you have confused the issue of TMO's radar digital readout (that came from the German radar conning tower files), with it's Updated 2.2 Gato radar version (which has your "3D TDC and Radar Range Unit" installed). I suggest you re-read the posts in this thread again. At no time have I referred to your mod addition of the 3DTDC and Radar Range unit. You know as well as I the 2.2 Update only changes the Gato radar unit. It has no file change to the Porpoise radar regarding the .dat file, or any other subs radar that doesn't use the Gato conning tower files. Running "TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2" and the "TMO_Update_20_to_22" changes the Gato radar to your 3D version. It does nothing to the remaining subs that have the issue of their radar having a digital readout which only reads in meters, and is backwards.


Your mistaken if you think I was referring to your 3D mod addition, I'm not. The conversation is regarding the radar units that only have the German digital readout added to the U.S. subs.


In the following image the Porpoise .dat file is opened to the specific issue of the digital readout of TMO 2.0 (which is the same for the addition of the Update 2.2).


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w132/crawlee/PorpoiseRadar.jpg


The placement of the digits should be in the order as outlined in red. This will prevent the readout from reading backwards. It won't prevent the digital readout from only reading in meters. That's the problem that was pointed out with this topic. We can make "cosmetic" changes to the game but are still limited to what we can change. We can't change the radar digital readout that's on the TMO 2.2 Porpoise class sub to read in yards. That parameter is in the game engine outside of our control.

[Radio]

Just tested the OTC mod and have to tell you that the changes ou made to the radars are great, now I finally can use them and switched from playing in map-update mod to full realism. What a change! :up:

I also like the periscope changes, very nice!

The radar fix files for the Balao (iirc) are missing, though, no problem I made the changes there myself by looking what you did in the other files, but i just wanted to mention it. Oh and your mod documentation is impressive and as good as it gets, all changes listed as far as posible, now that's some real community thinking! :yeah:

[peabody]

Many many thanks, CapnScurvy, you saved me a lot of headaches and time! Before I read this I tried to give some buttons in the commandbar the raise_periscope function and had a tiny success, the button works ,but only for a splitsecond, one would have to click like 30 times to get the periscope up all the way. :DL

I even tried to use a double command in the commandbar.cfg e.g. raise_periscope;raise_periscope as the engine seems to understand two arguments in a IF case. Sadly the double command does not work.


Would have been nice to also autolower the SD radar when crashdiving...

oh welll.

Anyway, thks again! :up:

You actually can add a button to the Ordersbar with SH4 Menumaker to get the effect you want. You could have either a two button set up or a three button set up, so it is not the BEST idea but it will work.

1.Two button solution:
Leave the raise/lower button like it is, set to "toggle" but add a "Stop Periscope" button so you don't have to have the periscope go all the way up if you are being 'stealthy'. The problem there, if you do not get high enough, the second push on the raise/lower causes the scope to lower.

2. Three button solution:
Second solution is to change the button to 'raise the whole scope' (NOT toggle as it is now.) add a button set to 'lower the whole scope', then between them have a stop button. So if the you stop the scope in the wrong place, you can go up or down a bit and stop it again.

I know....NOT an ideal solution but it will work. Also on my monitor I would need to delete one of the buttons I don't use much since adding a button would push it under the fuel, Co2 indicator.

Peabody

[I'm goin' down]

Hold on boys. Time out. I think your two mods, 3D TDC and OTC, are the best thing since sliced bread. (My other favorite is MOBO.) Are these two mods compatible? (I don't see how?) They are both a little cumbersome, plus when I screw up a step with the 3D TDC and Radar Range Unit (which I can confirm is an accurate prototype as I saw one during the movie Run Silent, Run Deep) I have to start over which is a pain in the butt.

Anyway, there is no reason why Thomas Edison and Steve Jobs would go off on each other. Save your energy for something important.

Now I have to go and do something important -- make Buffalo Chicken Wings with a brand spanking new recipe. Opps. I forgot the blue cheese dip!!

[Radio]

You actually can add a button to the Ordersbar with SH4 Menumaker to get the effect you want. You could have either a two button set up or a three button set up, so it is not the BEST idea but it will work.

1.Two button solution:
Leave the raise/lower button like it is, set to "toggle" but add a "Stop Periscope" button so you don't have to have the periscope go all the way up if you are being 'stealthy'. The problem there, if you do not get high enough, the second push on the raise/lower causes the scope to lower.

2. Three button solution:
Second solution is to change the button to 'raise the whole scope' (NOT toggle as it is now.) add a button set to 'lower the whole scope', then between them have a stop button. So if the you stop the scope in the wrong place, you can go up or down a bit and stop it again.

I know....NOT an ideal solution but it will work. Also on my monitor I would need to delete one of the buttons I don't use much since adding a button would push it under the fuel, Co2 indicator.

Peabody

Hey, nice idea, gonna test it! :up:

I had thought of another solution for the controller buttons(not sure if it is feasible or even worth the huge amount of work): Change the US periscope screen to the german one and edit that one to an american look.... :88):88)

[CapnScurvy]

Radio, you know the stock keyboard allows you to raise/lower the attack periscope with just pushing the page-up or page-down buttons? Using the "Control" key with the same buttons puts the scope in full extension or full retraction. Pushing the page-up button will start the extension, releasing it on the way up will stop it's movement anywhere you want. Same with the downward movement, you can stop the retraction anywhere you want by releasing the page-down key.

Same with the observation scope. Just use the Insert/Delete keys for it.

[Radio]

Yes, I know (and I said so in the very first post) :DL
I simply wanted to have an on-screen solution. Feels less out-of-game if you know what I mean... :oops:


Oh and peabody: The orderbar trick works, even better than one would think! ->is happy now<- :up:

Radio, you know the stock keyboard allows you to raise/lower the attack periscope with just pushing the page-up or page-down buttons? Using the "Control" key with the same buttons puts the scope in full extension or full retraction. Pushing the page-up button will start the extension, releasing it on the way up will stop it's movement anywhere you want. Same with the downward movement, you can stop the retraction anywhere you want by releasing the page-down key.

Same with the observation scope. Just use the Insert/Delete keys for it.