Need help resolving a mod conflict

[DirtyACE]

There are two mods that I would like to run simultaneously but apparently they're not compatible as whenever I try to run both at the same time I get an automatic CTD. The two mods are Conus' SH3GWXWS 2.3 and GWX 3 Wilhemshafen,St Naz,Schluese and xtra ships V6 (with Merged Campaign option). Is there any way to make these compatible with each other?

[frau kaleun]

I'm gonna have to say yes, since I've got both of them running with no problems so far in testing and they were among the first few mods that I enabled when I started reinstalling stuff.

What file(s) does JSGME flash you an alert for when you try to enable the widescreen mod after the Wili/StNaz mod? I don't see any files being shared by the two mods, altho they both have Sea folders. But the ships listed in Conus00's mod don't appear to overlap with those in the other one. However I deleted the Sea folder from the widescreen mod entirely since I didn't want or need it adding or changing those ships' files.

Are there any other mods that you're trying to run at the same time?

Edit: what are your system specs? Running the Merged Campaign puts a HUGE extra load on your system as it includes scripted/random traffic for *all* operational areas. Unless you were running it before with no problems, I'd try disabling that one and seeing what happens. It really is a lot of extra and unnecessary drain on your resources - there's no reason to have it enabled unless you are going to be transiting from one major operational area to another in a single patrol. You don't need traffic being loaded for the Indian Ocean and the Black Sea if you are only sailing around the North Sea and Atlantic. And if you are getting a CTD trying to load up a mission/patrol, it could be that there isn't enough memory available to load everything with Merged Campaign enabled.

[DirtyACE]

My specs:

AMD Phenom II X4 965 Quadcore 3.4Ghz
4GB DDR3 RAM
Windows 7 32-bit
ATI Radeon HD 6780 with latest drivers

Well, here's the thing, when I activate those two mods in JSGME it doesn't actually indicate that there are any conflicts at all, no files are being shared. But when I go to run the game and I get to the loading screen to the mission, the progress bar gets to 90% and then CTD. However, if I run just one of the mods then there's not CTD and I can start the mission. And this is without even running the Merged Campaign option.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Are you using the 3 Gig switch thingy to enable the game to use more RAM?

[Fubar2Niner]

@DirtyACE

Got to agree with Herr-Berbunch shipmate, most definately sounds like a memory problem. Try the switch :yep:

Best regards.

Fubar2Niner

[Jimbuna]

Should definitely be the switch....32 bit won't access more than 2gb of RAM without it.

[frau kaleun]

IIRC I was never able to run GWX 3 Wilhemshafen,St Naz,Schluese and xtra ships V6 on 32-bit Windows with only 4 gigs RAM (and without any patches/switches allowing the game to access more of that memory). I could get the game to load if I used one of the mods that reduced traffic (like Lite Harbor Traffic) otherwise I would CTD during loading. It was definitely a memory issue because with more RAM available to the game it runs fine.

[DirtyACE]

Thanks all for your help. So this 3Gb switch is a patch? Where can I get it?

[Jimbuna]

Actually it was possible to run it but in the early days you hasd to trade off some other mod to compensate :yep:

[DirtyACE]

Actually it was possible to run it but in the early days you hasd to trade off some other mod to compensate :yep:

Yes, I was thinking of doing a trade-off. I would definitely like to use Conus' SH3GWXWS 2.3 mod because I have a wide screen monitor and the mod really helps. The the other mod, as far as I can tell, is mainly eye candy. Am I right?

Also if you could point me in the direction of the 3Gb switch patch/mod :salute:

One other question I forgot to ask earlier. It's regarding the Merchant Fleet 3.2 Mod. I was trying to run that also and it kept crashing on me as well. That one however does have some file sharing with the GWX 3 Wilhemshafen,St Naz,Schluese mod. Is there any way to make them compatible or was it crashing also because of the lack of memory?

[Jimbuna]

Yes, I was thinking of doing a trade-off. I would definitely like to use Conus' SH3GWXWS 2.3 mod because I have a wide screen monitor and the mod really helps. The the other mod, as far as I can tell, is mainly eye candy. Am I right?

Also if you could point me in the direction of the 3Gb switch patch/mod :salute:

I'll let frau kaleun do that.....who is watching and has done a wonderful job helping GWX with queries over the past year or so.

And that is said out of heartfelt respect :sunny:

[Fish In The Water]

Also if you could point me in the direction of the 3Gb switch patch/mod :salute:

The 'switch' is actually a Windows command line function rather than an actual mod. It only has to be run once, after which it remains resident as part of the boot.ini sequence.

Instructions as follows:

1. Click on Start -> Run -> type 'cmd' -> Enter

2. In the black box type -> 'bcdedit /set IncreaseUserVA 2560' -> Enter

3. Restart

To revert back to default (at any time), follow the same procedure but this time enter:

'bcdedit /set IncreaseUserVA 2048'

Then press 'Enter' and reboot.

Once you run the command you should get a message that the operation completed successfully. Also, to check the size of the memory allocation (at any time) simply open the command window (via cmd) and type 'bcdedit' all by itself. The amount of 'increaseuserva' should be listed in the results.

Last but not least, you need admin rights to perform the operation so make sure you're running as an administrator. Good luck and enjoy the extra memory! :sunny:

[DirtyACE]

The 'switch' is actually a Windows command line function rather than an actual mod. It only has to be run once, after which it remains resident as part of the boot.ini sequence.

Instructions as follows:

1. Click on Start -> Run -> type 'cmd' -> Enter

2. In the black box type -> 'bcdedit /set IncreaseUserVA 2560' -> Enter

3. Restart

To revert back to default (at any time), follow the same procedure but this time enter:

'bcdedit /set IncreaseUserVA 2048'

Then press 'Enter' and reboot.

Once you run the command you should get a message that the operation completed successfully. Also, to check the size of the memory allocation (at any time) simply open the command window (via cmd) and type 'bcdedit' all by itself. The amount of 'increaseuserva' should be listed in the results.

Last but not least, you need admin rights to perform the operation so make sure you're running as an administrator. Good luck and enjoy the extra memory! :sunny:

Thanks Fish :salute:

I followed your instructions and it seems to have worked. I checked the IncreaseUserVA by going into bcdedit and it does say 2560 now.

So Windows 7 32 bit is always set to only use 2GB of RAM no matter how much actual memory you have? Why is this?

Now that I've changed the settings, can this cause any difficulties with other programs or is this the kind of adjustment that doesn't have any negatives attached to it?

[frau kaleun]

Thanks all for your help. So this 3Gb switch is a patch? Where can I get it?

Well, there's the 4GB patch and the 3GB switch, two different things.

The 4GB patch is a patch made specifically for the game's .exe file; without it, the game is limited to using a maximum of 2 gigs RAM no matter how much is available. With the patch, the game can use up to a maximum of 4 gigs of RAM (if available). You can find one version of the patch here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=2888

The thread with info on it is here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=177274&highlight=get+your+4gb+patch+here


To the best of my understanding, the 3GB switch is something that causes Windows 32-bit to allow a program (like SH3) to access more than 2 gigs of RAM if it is available.

When I was on 32-bit (XP) I never had any luck with the 3 GB switch. I set it up but could not boot Windows with it activated. From what I remember there is also the question of hardware/software compatibility, which can vary from system to system, and the issue of whether or not telling Windows to "reserve" 3 gigs of memory for programs will leave enough memory to actually, you know, run Windows and whatever other stuff is going on constantly in the background. I could never start Windows with the switch enabled so I have no idea what effect it might have had on my gaming experience. I assume it was because Windows only recognized 3.25 gigs of the 4GB RAM I had on board, so telling it to allot 3 gigs to user activated programs just wasn't going to fly.

So Windows 7 32 bit is always set to only use 2GB of RAM no matter how much actual memory you have? Why is this?


It's not that Windows is only using 2GB of RAM - in theory, the 32-bit OS will recognize up to 4GB. However some RAM must be reserved for running Windows itself and other necessary stuff as required by your hardware/software setup, as opposed to processes and programs that are started up and require RAM only when you, the user, decide to open a file or run a program. Without the 3GB patch, Windows allots a maximum of 2 gigs to those "User-mode processes" and no more than 2 gigs will ever be available to, say, whatever game you are currently playing even if the game wants and needs more to run properly.

I'm not using the correct technical lingo here because it makes my head hurt, but you get the general idea. :D

Anyway - speaking of making one's head hurt, here is some general info from Microsoft about the 3GB switch:

http://blogs.technet.com/b/askperf/archive/2007/03/23/memory-management-demystifying-3gb.aspx

and instructions for enabling it:

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/ps/dl/item?siteID=123112&id=9583842&linkID=9240697

I would assume that if you get the 3GB switch to work, the next step would be to apply the 4GB patch to the game .exe file. That way Windows would allow the program to use more RAM (or rather make up to 3 gigs available to it) *and* the game would be able to access that extra memory rather than the original hardcoded limit of 2 gigs max. But as I said I never got past step one in that process myself.

Actually it was possible to run it but in the early days you hasd to trade off some other mod to compensate :yep:

On 32-bit I couldn't run it even with no other mods enabled, unless I used some of the optional Lite mods to decrease traffic. And then all my harbors looked like ghost towns. :wah:

I'll let frau kaleun do that.....who is watching and has done a wonderful job helping GWX with queries over the past year or so.

And that is said out of heartfelt respect :sunny:

Aw shucks. :oops: :shucks:

[DirtyACE]

Thank Frau. Some interesting info there regarding the switch, however, the more I read about it, the more it worries me. It seems that there can be some serious drawbacks to it and simply using it for just SH3 purposes is not worth the hassle that may cause for some other things. I've run some very graphically and resource intensive games on this machine that are newer than SH3 and have never had problems. Anyway, thanks for the info but I think I'm going to revert back to the standard settings just to keep things balanced.

Also, after setting it to 3GB, I did try doing a test by running just the two mods I mentioned in my OP. No luck, the game still CTD as soon as the progress bar reaches 90%.

Regarding the 4GB patch. From my understanding it only applicable if you have more than 4GB of RAM and have Win 7 64-bit as your OS. Since I have neither it probably wouldn't work for me. Am I right?

[frau kaleun]

Also, after setting it to 3GB, I did try doing a test by running just the two mods I mentioned in my OP. No luck, the game still CTD as soon as the progress bar reaches 90%.

Regarding the 4GB patch. From my understanding it only applicable if you have more than 4GB of RAM and have Win 7 64-bit as your OS. Since I have neither it probably wouldn't work for me. Am I right?

Even if you get the 3GB switch to work, it only affects what Windows does in terms of allowing the game (or any "user mode" process) to access more memory. The game itself will not "ask for" any of that extra memory unless you patch it with the 4GB patch. The original .exe file won't let it use more than 2 gigs no matter how much Windows has available and that's where the patch comes in.

My feeling about the patch is, it can't hurt. If Windows *is* making more than 2 gigs available, the patch will let the game use it. Without the patch, you'll never know one way or the other.

Personally I would just copy the original Sh3.exe to a safe spot on my hard drive, and then patch the one in the game directory and see what happens. If the 3GB switch plus the patched .exe make any difference, you'll know soon enough. If not, you can put the original .exe file back in the game folder and disable the switch if you don't want it either.

[DirtyACE]

Frau, it seems I spoke too soon about the 3GB switch because what I did earlier was follow Fish's instructions, but they were not exactly correct, at least not in terms of the amount of RAM to switch to. The first time I did it I only switched up to 2560, instead of the 3072 that's actually required. I tried again with 3072 and the mission does actually load up with the two mods (no crashes) but the frame rate goes down to extreme levels. I'm making progress in getting it to run but it is basically unplayable with such low frame rate.

I'd like to try the 4GB patch as well but have a question. I was reading the thread you provided and in it there is a patch posted by privateer and then there's also another patch (from NTcore website) posted by jimbuna, which of these should I use?

[frau kaleun]

I'd like to try the 4GB patch as well but have a question. I was reading the thread you provided and in it there is a patch posted by privateer and then there's also another patch (from NTcore website) posted by jimbuna, which of these should I use?

There are several versions of the 4GB patch, h.sie also has one that is included as an option in one of his big mods which is what I'm using now. I originally used Privateer's and it worked fine too, as should the one jimbuna linked to altho I have no personal experience with it.

[DirtyACE]

:woot:SUCCESS!:yeah:

I tried Privateer's 4GB patch and it worked. The frame increased dramatically though still a little laggy but that's to be expected with so much going on graphically inside the port with the GWX 3 Wilhemshafen,St Naz,Schluese and xtra ships V6 mod. I've also tried adding a third mod which is the Merchant Fleet 3.2 and it also works along with the other two.

[frau kaleun]

:yeah:

Fantastic.

If you want, you can try enabling the Lite Harbor Traffic Mod (which will eliminate all "eye candy" shipping from your base of operations) and start another patrol from your subpen... if you see an improvement in performance without all the extra traffic then it's very likely that the harbor lag is due primarily to the heavy activity there without that Lite mod enabled and not anything more problematic. (Just make sure that any mod changes you make happen when you are safely in base and not mid-patrol.)

The MFM requires a LOT of memory so if you're able to load a patrol with that enabled, it's a very good sign indeed. You may find that you'll reach the system's limits if you try to add too many other mods that also require a lot of resources, but for now it sounds like you're good to go. :DL

[DirtyACE]

The Lite Harbor Traffic mod you're talking about, is that the one that comes standard with GWX3.0?

Also, I have GWX 3 Wilhemshafen,St Naz,Schluese and xtra ships V6 installed as the very first mod in JSGME and then followed by the Widescreen Mod, followed by Merchant Fleet 3.2. Is this the correct order in which they should be activated?

Also with GWX 3 Wilhemshafen,St Naz,Schluese and xtra ships V6 there are other additional mods that come with it like the Combined Campaign option. What I don't understand is whether it is required to run one of these other additional mods along with the main mod?

[frau kaleun]

The Lite Harbor Traffic comes as an optional mod with your GWX installation, however when you enable GWX 3 Wilhemshafen,St Naz,Schluese and xtra ships V6 it installs its own updated version of Lite Harbor Traffic directly into your MODS folder - this version overwrites the original GWX version. If you disable GWX 3 Wilhemshafen,St Naz,Schluese and xtra ships V6 it will revert back to the original "standard" GWX version through the magic of JSGME and its automatic backup-and-restore function.

So... whichever version of Lite Harbor Traffic is currently there in your MODS folder, that's the one you would use if you want to test out the performance in the harbor without all the eye candy shipping.

The three mods you listed shouldn't have any conflicts with each other, so I don't think the order of activation would make any difference. But IIRC the documentation for GWX 3 Wilhemshafen,St Naz,Schluese and xtra ships V6 advises that it be enabled first before anything else.

If there IS an obvious conflict, i.e., a new mod overwrites a file that another mod you're using already added or changed, JSGME will let you know before it overwrites and files and give you the option of stopping right there. Generally speaking, if you're not getting those alerts, the likelihood of a major conflict is low. But always read the documentation that comes with your mods, if a mod is designed to be used in combination with another one or there is a major conflict with another popular mod, it will often tell you right there.

The other mods that come with GWX 3 Wilhemshafen,St Naz,Schluese and xtra ships V6 are optional and they do NOT need to be enabled unless you want the changes that they make. Many of them are updated versions of the original optional mods that came with GWX, just like Lite Harbor Traffic and are designed to be used only under certain circumstances and/or to reduce the load on your system if necessary.

[Fish In The Water]

So Windows 7 32 bit is always set to only use 2GB of RAM no matter how much actual memory you have? Why is this?

It's a built in limitation of the 32 bit OS. A sort of 'glass ceiling' if you like. :DL

Frau, it seems I spoke too soon about the 3GB switch because what I did earlier was follow Fish's instructions, but they were not exactly correct, at least not in terms of the amount of RAM to switch to. The first time I did it I only switched up to 2560, instead of the 3072 that's actually required?

If you have a total of 3GB RAM, then the remaining 512k is reserved for the OS. What the switch is actually doing (in this case) is allocating 2.5GB for application purposes. :sunny:

[DirtyACE]

The Lite Harbor Traffic comes as an optional mod with your GWX installation, however when you enable GWX 3 Wilhemshafen,St Naz,Schluese and xtra ships V6 it installs its own updated version of Lite Harbor Traffic directly into your MODS folder - this version overwrites the original GWX version. If you disable GWX 3 Wilhemshafen,St Naz,Schluese and xtra ships V6 it will revert back to the original "standard" GWX version through the magic of JSGME and its automatic backup-and-restore function.

So... whichever version of Lite Harbor Traffic is currently there in your MODS folder, that's the one you would use if you want to test out the performance in the harbor without all the eye candy shipping.

The three mods you listed shouldn't have any conflicts with each other, so I don't think the order of activation would make any difference. But IIRC the documentation for GWX 3 Wilhemshafen,St Naz,Schluese and xtra ships V6 advises that it be enabled first before anything else.

If there IS an obvious conflict, i.e., a new mod overwrites a file that another mod you're using already added or changed, JSGME will let you know before it overwrites and files and give you the option of stopping right there. Generally speaking, if you're not getting those alerts, the likelihood of a major conflict is low. But always read the documentation that comes with your mods, if a mod is designed to be used in combination with another one or there is a major conflict with another popular mod, it will often tell you right there.

The other mods that come with GWX 3 Wilhemshafen,St Naz,Schluese and xtra ships V6 are optional and they do NOT need to be enabled unless you want the changes that they make. Many of them are updated versions of the original optional mods that came with GWX, just like Lite Harbor Traffic and are designed to be used only under certain circumstances and/or to reduce the load on your system if necessary.

Tried out the Lite Harbor Traffic mod but didn't really notice much of a difference in performance so I think I'll keep the full traffic.

Well I was wondering about the Atlantic and US East only option actually. If I don't install it, then will I have ship traffic in places like the North Sea and the Mediterranean for example? I imagine if I do install it then that traffic in those areas will cease?

It's a built in limitation of the 32 bit OS. A sort of 'glass ceiling' if you like. :DL



If you have a total of 3GB RAM, then the remaining 512k is reserved for the OS. What the switch is actually doing (in this case) is allocating 2.5GB for application purposes. :sunny:

Thanks Fish. Yes I understand how it works and that it is shifting the memory allocation ratio. I actually have 4GB, so I've shifted 1GB for applications and left 1 GB for OS. That's why I said I opted for the 3072 option instead of 2560.

[frau kaleun]

Well I was wondering about the Atlantic and US East only option actually. If I don't install it, then will I have ship traffic in places like the North Sea and the Mediterranean for example? I imagine if I do install it then that traffic in those areas will cease?

Yes - and if you install Indian Ocean Only, you'll only get traffic in the Indian Ocean and nowhere else. Same sort of thing for Black Sea Only, Mediterranean Only, etc.

Atlantic and US East Only is designed for use if you have transferred to a French Atlantic base after the summer of 1940 and are no longer sailing in and out of the North Sea or along the east coast of Britain. It removes traffic from the latter areas and only gives you traffic in those areas (the Atlantic and the US east coast) where you are going to be patrolling.

What these mods do for the most part, as far as I can tell, is reduce the loading time because with them enabled the game is using smaller campaign files (and this also means that it requires less system resources to load them). With Merged Campaign, as discussed above, you get a campaign file that is much, much larger because it includes all possible random and scripted traffic in all areas of operation... which is why it's not advisable to use it unless you know you are going to be making the transition from, say, the Atlantic to the Med or the Atlantic to the Indian Ocean and want to see traffic for the entire trip.

[DirtyACE]

Well, I'd to be able to sail around Atlantic (and US East coast) and on occasion go to the Mediterranean, so would I need to install the Combined Campaign mod for that?

[frau kaleun]

Well, I'd to be able to sail around Atlantic (and US East coast) and on occasion go to the Mediterranean, so would I need to install the Combined Campaign mod for that?

I don't think so now that I look at the my baseline GWX installation - there doesn't seem to be an optional mod just for Med traffic, which would indicate that it's already in the default campaign files anyway.

Plus I looked at the campaign files for random and scripted traffic that GWX 3 Wilhemshafen,St Naz,Schluese and xtra ships V6 gives you, and they both include traffic for the Mediterranean as well. So if all you want is traffic for the "usual" patrol areas of the North Sea and Atlantic, plus the Med, I think you're good without enabling Merged Campaign. I've never done the Med myself but someone else can certainly confirm that I'm drawing the correct conclusions from the files I'm looking at.

[Fish In The Water]

Thanks Fish. Yes I understand how it works and that it is shifting the memory allocation ratio. I actually have 4GB, so I've shifted 1GB for applications and left 1 GB for OS. That's why I said I opted for the 3072 option instead of 2560.

Sounds good, roger that ... :sunny:

I don't think so now that I look at the my baseline GWX installation - there doesn't seem to be an optional mod just for Med traffic...

There actually is one that Hitman made a while back. I've been using it on and off and I find it cuts down on load times dramatically. It's available in the downloads section here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1530

@Hitman: Cheers! :up:

[Jimbuna]

Aw shucks. :oops: :shucks:

True words :03: