U-BOAT_HAHD on SH4 platform.

[Hans Witteman]

Hi SH4 shipmates ,

Most of you guy's are probably aware that we are working on megamod for SH3 but some recent discussions raise the point that SH4 would be more appropriated to render our high quality vision of the dream sim we all want to see.

So i am opening this thread to start the discussion on the major porting aspect we will have to deal with ex; Harbor integration, u-boat integration, campaign elements etc.


Keep in mind that i didn't follow closely the modding community of SH4 so many thing are still new to me regarding what have been done so far to implemented all SH3 elements in SH4 structure.

Also we would be more than happy if some of you experienced modders are willing to join our team, we have plenty of resources to offer like advanced video tutorials and extensive reference material and assets.

We also have a complete website with private chat and member folders etc.

Awaiting your constructive comments and feedback. :Kaleun_Salute:

Best regards Hans

[urfisch]

i think, it is important to have lurker and drakkhen onboard, hans. they already created some important stuff, regarding the atlantic theater and its campaigns, harbor layouts, etc. so there already is a base we could start from.

[Hitman]

Porting 3D models is quite straightforward, IIRC Ducimus enabled all the harbours of SH3 almost by dropping the files into Sh4. Conversion of units isn't difficult either, and the campaign is already very well done by lurker in his "Operation Monsoon" mod, which also added lots of UBoats (Including working minelayers), etc.

You also have already a great environment mod, and the only big difficulty -which was the interface- was overcomed by karamazovnew, who provided an excellent, usable and very professional and fitting GUI.

Quite frankly, adding all the HAHD stuff to the existing combo and polishing the game to the end would be friggin awesome, and probably quite superior to SH5. Heck ... what are we waiting for? :o Let the conversion begin at once :up:

[nemo7]

Quite frankly, adding all the HAHD stuff to the existing combo and polishing the game to the end would be friggin awesome, and probably quite superior to SH5. Heck ... what are we waiting for? :o Let the conversion begin at once :up:

+1:yep:

[Hans Witteman]

Hi shipmates,

It seem that the SH4 community is dead or close to it because nobody seem enthusiastic about our proposition.

Best regards Hans

[Sepp von Ch.]

Hello Hans! This project sounds really great!:Kaleun_Thumbs_Up: It would be a completly new mod including the new camapign for german submarines or the implementation of HAHD into Operation Monsun?

[nemo7]

Hans, you have to realise that there is a huge gap between the SH3+GWX3.0+SH3COMMANDER and SH5 u-boat simers. IF you can achieve the "SH4 Atlantic predator anabiosis" then MOST of the "SH3 lovers" and "SH5 haters" will follow your vision instantly...

[Hans Witteman]

Hello Hans! This project sounds really great!:Kaleun_Thumbs_Up: It would be a completly new mod including the new camapign for german submarines or the implementation of HAHD into Operation Monsun?

Hi mate,

Yes if we can have Lurker on our side it would become the most played version of the SH serie for a couple of years ahead.

Let's just hope some folks in the SH4 community are interested to work in a real team effort to get our ultimate goal a reality.

Best regards Hans

[Hans Witteman]

Hans, you have to realise that there is a huge gap between the SH3+GWX3.0+SH3COMMANDER and SH5 u-boat simers. IF you can achieve the "SH4 Atlantic predator anabiosis" then MOST of the "SH3 lovers" and "SH5 haters" will follow your vision instantly...

Hi mate,

Yes the goal is to make what everybody want from Sh3 in SH4 with the extra bell and whistle aka more advanced shader and technologies.

SH5 would required way to much time and effort to bring it close to SH3 spirit and like i say even if some features look good there is still a tremendous amount of work to even getting close to the SH3 quality.

Also by today standard SH4 can be run by almost any computer but not SH5 with this one you need a killer rig to just enable the water effect!

So SH4 should be the road to glory not without the effort.

Best regards Hans

[nemo7]

Yeap... That's the spirit mate...:03:

[nemo7]

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/2799/sh4img20100428073730559.png

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9403/sh42011032218465006.jpg

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/5765/sh4img20100506190937812.png

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/2176/sh4img20100506190429693.png

http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/3263/sh42011032723421448.jpg

W.I.P. by Tomi099
http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/8367/11570294.jpg

[mkIpetrucci]

Hans , I support your choice, I only hope that you will drag more modders around your team this way. Revival of GWX4, under a different name? Or maybe refine OM with Lurker's help, cause we're talking about U-Boats here, right?

One last thing: Should I bookmark this thread? The things are moving here, right?

[Hans Witteman]

Hans , I support your choice, I only hope that you will drag more modders around your team this way. Revival of GWX4, under a different name? Or maybe refine OM with Lurker's help, cause we're talking about U-Boats here, right?

One last thing: Should I bookmark this thread? The things are moving here, right?

Hi mate,

If no one is willing to team with us then i will have to change my mind and get back to SH3 i already mention that without a proper team effort i won't go that route.

Don't bookmark yet i still need other team members approval before starting the work.

Best regards Hans

[Hans Witteman]

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/2799/sh4img20100428073730559.png

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9403/sh42011032218465006.jpg

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/5765/sh4img20100506190937812.png

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/2176/sh4img20100506190429693.png

http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/3263/sh42011032723421448.jpg

W.I.P. by Tomi099
http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/8367/11570294.jpg

Hi mate,

Yes indeed the technologies is more advanced regarding shaders and other features but wait to see it port with my own wicked 3d artist trick:Kaleun_Salivating:
Best regards Hans

[Hitman]

But why exactly do you think you need SH4 modders? The thing is, anybody who can mod Sh3 can also mod Sh4, bith games have identical file structure and work almost the same except the menu.ini

The work from older Sh4 modders like lurker, Ducimus or karamazovnew is not needed for your team, what they all did is ready to be used directly and doesn't need much further updating.

The effort it would take for you and your current team to get into Sh4 is really minimal, so believe me when I say that the current lack of Sh4 modders is absolutely no problem. Besides, as soon as your project starts I'm sure that new blood will pour in and become interested.

Don't pass on the posibilities (Not just graphics, there's working resupply, calling friendly forces, correct weather with no bugs, no aircraft bug at high TC, better engine to allow huge TC rates, etc, etc) of Sh4 just because of that, it would be truly unforgiveable :yep:

[Hans Witteman]

But why exactly do you think you need SH4 modders? The thing is, anybody who can mod Sh3 can also mod Sh4, bith games have identical file structure and work almost the same except the menu.ini

The work from older Sh4 modders like lurker, Ducimus or karamazovnew is not needed for your team, what they all did is ready to be used directly and doesn't need much further updating.

The effort it would take for you and your current team to get into Sh4 is really minimal, so believe me when I say that the current lack of Sh4 modders is absolutely no problem. Besides, as soon as your project starts I'm sure that new blood will pour in and become interested.

Don't pass on the posibilities (Not just graphics, there's working resupply, calling friendly forces, correct weather with no bugs, no aircraft bug at high TC, better engine to allow huge TC rates, etc, etc) of Sh4 just because of that, it would be truly unforgiveable :yep:

Hi mate,

I understand what you mean because i am already working in SH4 at the moment and will show later on what i have done so far!

The need for other team member is necessary if we want to release before the sun die off.:k_rofl:
I am learning the Sh4 structure and it seem pretty close to SH3 so far except some advanced features.

Best regards Hans

[Sailor Steve]

As I said on the other thread, I'm in, though I'm not sure what I can really contribute. If we can get a programmer who can activate the ship names function, then I can be a real help there. I've had ideas for a long time that I've wanted to try, because SH4 is also much better for the way it organizes the ship models.

[Madox58]

What the Heck.

I'll do what I can but I'm not very good at modding.
:D

[Hans Witteman]

What the Heck.

I'll do what I can but I'm not very good at modding.
:D

:k_rofl:

You naughty little boy! Arf if you can't mod then i am Jesus donkey!

Seriously i just have my first look at SH4 under the hood and i can't believe i didn't look at it earlier!

The possibility are amazing and i have to admit the water model is way better and with some HAHD tweak it will be the Atlantic the way i want it.

I noticed that the caustic are not showing and i patch it to 1.4 i will have a look at the controller.

I didn't install the u-boat mission yet just stock sh4 1.4.

Edit: My mistake i will look like a noob the cd have install everything and i am already at version 1.5! lol

Let's the fun begin and may you join in if you have the will and the time to do it let's do it for the sake of history.:Kaleun_Thumbs_Up:
Best regards Hans

[Madox58]

Well Thanks to Ref?
90% of any SH3 Unit can be converted in less then a second.
So any transfer of existing SH3 Units to SH4 has less work involved.

I can't release it but I can do the conversions.
I can probably write an app to handle what it does not.
Thus cutting another 10% time loss.

I can also have them setup to run a complete folder and all subfolders/files.

10 minutes?
Any and all SH3 Units are converted and would only need detail work.

To use this Tool from Ref requires Credits to Him and The GWX Team.
I don't think that's a problem is it?

[Hans Witteman]

Well Thanks to Ref?
90% of any SH3 Unit can be converted in less then a second.
So any transfer of existing SH3 Units to SH4 has less work involved.

I can't release it but I can do the conversions.
I can probably write an app to handle what it does not.
Thus cutting another 10% time loss.

I can also have them setup to run a complete folder and all subfolders/files.

10 minutes?
Any and all SH3 Units are converted and would only need detail work.

To use this Tool from Ref requires Credits to Him and The GWX Team.
I don't think that's a problem is it?

Hi mate,

That would be a good start and for credits i think i am well know to give the credit to who it deserve! :Kaleun_Wink:

This should be embrace by all serious modders here instead of working solo i would love to see a real team effort to bring SH3 to SH4 i am willing with team approval to even change the name to make everybody happy.

Also is there a specific tool for terrain or is it the same SH3 use?

I want to start by re doing the correct configuration for Wihelmshaven haffen with lock and all the bell and whistle.

Best regards Hans

[Madox58]

Ref also did a Terrain Mod Tool for SH4 and released it here at SubSim.
:yeah:

All Terrain mods for SH3/4 were done with his Tools as no others exist.

[Diablo2]

I think you guys are making a very wise decision modding this engine, Sh4 has so much to offer its to bad everyone seemed to skip it in favor of 5.. :hmmm: Anyway ill follow this religiously if you guys start work on it, maybe you can nudge lurker out of retirement. :D

[Madox58]

At one time I was heavily involved in an application that would take standard SH3 Campaign files and convert them to the SH4 style.

I no longer have the source but I do remember most of the outline.

[Hans Witteman]

Ref also did a Terrain Mod Tool for SH4 and released it here at SubSim.
:yeah:

All Terrain mods for SH3/4 were done with his Tools as no others exist.

Hi mate,

Ok tank for clarifying the matter and also will it be possible to completely remove SH4 GUI i mean the visible part like the icons and stuff visible?

I want the GUI to look like the HAHD one that Mak made with his approval because mak and reaper didn't read the recent posts i made.

Best regards Hans

[Hans Witteman]

I think you guys are making a very wise decision modding this engine, Sh4 has so much to offer its to bad everyone seemed to skip it in favor of 5.. :hmmm: Anyway ill follow this religiously if you guys start work on it, maybe you can nudge lurker out of retirement. :D

Hi mate,

Yep that would be neat if Lurker join in with Drakkhen and others advanced modder familiar with SH4 handling.

Let's hope for the best :Kaleun_Salute:
Best regards hans

[Madox58]

There are a number of Tools out there that will allow nearly anything you want for the GUI.

It's not much different from working on SH3 stuff that I know of.

[Hans Witteman]

There are a number of Tools out there that will allow nearly anything you want for the GUI.

It's not much different from working on SH3 stuff that I know of.

Hi again mate,

Ok that fine i notice a menu tool in the download section is it worth?

For the menu 1024 ini Mak is our specialist at it let's hope he is in a good mood regarding the porting to SH4 because i think this will mean a little bit of work from him.

Best regards Hans

[Madox58]

UJaged or something like that I think?
I know I have it somewhere but I don't do menu stuff so I'm not the one to ask.

[Sailor Steve]

Ok tank for clarifying the matter and also will it be possible to completely remove SH4 GUI i mean the visible part like the icons and stuff visible?
Are you familiar with the '6-Dials' mod that FBL-Sale made for SH3? It removes everything, and turns it all into slideouts. I'm sure the same could be done for SH4. At least I hope so.

[Hans Witteman]

Are you familiar with the '6-Dials' mod that FBL-Sale made for SH3? It removes everything, and turns it all into slideouts. I'm sure the same could be done for SH4. At least I hope so.

Hi mate,

Yes i am pretty familiar with it because i base my first GUI on his wonderful work and after that Mak join the team and give us state of the art GUI so i abandon it.

Best regards Hans

[Hitman]

Sorry to say that modding the GUI will not be as easy as you might think :shifty: I have tried following karamazovnew instructions and didn't manage to do anything, it simply is too complicated for me.

HOWEVER

There are two good news:

1) Karamazov already did beautiful slideout panels for TDC and Torpedo settings which virtually leave as sole job to do the background images for persicopes, which is easy enough to do

2) SH5 tools do IIRC work with SH4 interface, and can be used to reposition and resize items. Privateer might be able to confirm or detail this :up:

[fitzcarraldo]

Dear Hans:

The SH4 Project looks fantastic. I recommend you the SH4 1.5 /with U Boat mission), install Lurker´s Operation Monsun and take a look at this mod. There is a lot to study in this mod (campaign structure, ships imported from SH3, GUI, etc.). Also, you can try the Nine-Delta_Two mod by Ducimus, an improvement from stock U - Boat Mission with a Type IXD2 with interiors and crew.

I think there is a lot of possibilities in SH4 for an Atlantic Campaign and a supermod HAHD in the 1.5 version!

I continue in the work with the tutorials and texturizing ships in SH3. These ships are easily convertibles to SH4. I installed a good quantity of VonDos ships to SH4 (TMO Pacific Campaign), and scripted in the campaign. No problems...

Best regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[reaper7]

Sorry to say that modding the GUI will not be as easy as you might think :shifty: I have tried following karamazovnew instructions and didn't manage to do anything, it simply is too complicated for me.

HOWEVER

There are two good news:

1) Karamazov already did beautiful slideout panels for TDC and Torpedo settings which virtually leave as sole job to do the background images for persicopes, which is easy enough to do

2) SH5 tools do IIRC work with SH4 interface, and can be used to reposition and resize items. Privateer might be able to confirm or detail this :up:

I can confirm this, I already have done this with Sh3 using SH5's Menu Editor to create and get x,y coordinates for dials and items. :03:

[ryanwigginton]

Doh! Now, I have two HAHD threads to follow! lol

Try CapnScurvey and take a good look through his Optical Targeting Correction mod. Some excellent work there that may provide guidance/inspiration. Hopefully you'll get some support from other SH4 masters like Ducimus and lurker_hlb3, even if it's only in the form of advice.

Good luck Hans!

[Wolfstriked]

I absolutely love this GUI.Just imagine it with the image background of the scope but the pic taken from HAHD scope and with Makman doing his magic to fix the look.:up::up:

http://naforum.zapodaj.net/images/a0edd72da340.jpg

[Anvart]

Well Thanks to Ref?
90% of any SH3 Unit can be converted in less then a second.
So any transfer of existing SH3 Units to SH4 has less work involved.

I can't release it but I can do the conversions.
I can probably write an app to handle what it does not.
Thus cutting another 10% time loss.

I can also have them setup to run a complete folder and all subfolders/files.

10 minutes?
Any and all SH3 Units are converted and would only need detail work.

To use this Tool from Ref requires Credits to Him and The GWX Team.
I don't think that's a problem is it?
:haha:
We are not talking about blind transfer of models of submarines and other units in SH4 ... project will be really interesting in SH4 only if all carried models will be reworked up to the level of SH4.

[urfisch]

:haha:
We are not talking about blind transfer of models of submarines and other units in SH4 ... project will be really interesting in SH4 only if all carried models will be reworked up to the level of SH4.

sure, in the first step, we talk about blind transfers.

your idea would be interesting, but seems impossible. there will never be as much people, as needed for such a task. some models might be reworked, the mass of imported stuff cant be conversed, i think. would be more interesting to add 3d stuff from sh5 to sh4, instead of export it from sh3. dont know, if this might work.

[Anvart]

... to add 3d stuff from sh5 to sh4 ...

Yes, as part of what I have said above... and again, with reworking.
SH4 with a blind-transfer of SH3 models me personally does not appeal to... "this gum" does not match the level of game.

P.S. ... also note the number of viewing this forum... very low rating.

[urfisch]

Yes, as part of what I have said above... and again, with reworking.
SH4 with a blind-transfer of SH3 models me personally does not appeal to... "this gum" does not match the level of game.

P.S. ... also note the number of viewing this forum... very low rating.

this would definitely change, im sure about this, anvart. all the critic about sh4 and the preferring of sh3 is a question of faith and the discussion is emotional, not rational. just think about the look and feel of sh3, with sh4 technology. and there would be more to come...cause sh4 allows much more beeing created. nice stuff. sh5 is crap, compared to what we can make of sh4.

:yeah:

and suddenly all of sh3 players notice:

"****...man, this definitely is sh3 with better graphics and even better gameplay! its like we all exspected sh5 was to come!!!".

so, we will see. personally i would love to see you onboard, taking part in this progress. will be great fun to go for a new sh3!...

:yep:

[Anvart]

this would definitely change, im sure about this, anvart. all the critic (???) about sh4 and the preferring of sh3 is a question of faith and the discussion is emotional, not rational...
:DL
Yes, your emotions are evident.
Personally, I do not care what platform will builded Hans mod. After several years of modding and poor development of the SH series as a simulator with elements of arcade game, I totally lost interest in her.
I just wanted to express my views on the issue.
... and do not need convince me in anything - it is useless.
:salute:

[Hitman]

... following the discussion initiated in the SH3 HAHD thread, TheDrakWraith wrote:

You are very misinformed about SH5 then. But please continue to think that way as we don't need people who think like you do in our SH5 forums :shifty:I think we all know by now that SH5 is the platform with most potential and most open to changes. But the main problem is that unfortunately any relevant changes are limited to people with very advanced skills like you or Privateer. Of course, in SH3/4 many things were like that, and had Swakjer not jumped in, we would still be sitting in the stone age, so to speak (Regarding tools that the average guy can use, not of course the hexeditors that only some brilliant minds can profit from). But the difference is that while in SH3/4 lots of brilliant minds pured in, following the worldwide success of SH3, the fiasco of SH5 has cut the community's wings almost completely.
What will happen to SH5 once you've had enough of it, TDW? SH3/4 can live and grow strong to their limits thanks to all that has been done, but SH5's potential is still largely unlocked and its fate lies in the had of very few people.

Quite frankly, SH4 as modding platform is nowadays a sure bet, while SH5 still is a promise. Even with all the brilliant and hard work you and other guys have put into it, I fail to see an area excet graphics where it has clearly surpassed SH3/4.

And as Makman brilliantly put it in the other thread, graphics are OK for a week of "Ohhhh" "Ahhhhh" "Wooooohhhh" but then ... you need gameplay.

That HAHD over SH5 would be simply the best thing next to sex with Miss Universe is clear to me, but HAHD has many more chances of being finished with SH4 than us having sex with Miss Universe, and that is the problem.

My 2 cents

[Wolfstriked]

I always think...why are modding communities so separated.If you look at modding teams in other games you will see what can happen is amazing when many form as one.

IMHO I would go for SH5 as main HAHD sim.It has scripting possibilities fellas.This allows so much to be added to the "simulation"....am I right?Look at TDW's work of adding in real navigation with things like asking the NO for a fix and getting response that weather is too bad.Possible to script in that every sub having its own dive model!!Sub in SH5 already has the function of a 3D walkaround as basis so new subs should be easily ported?? Sober or trevally(sorry I dont know exact)is working on the navigation buoys for ports to be exactly where they should be etc and on and on and on..........:up::up:

I still can't understand the way people are so attached to a certain version and constantly saying the other is bad.....same game engine with a few tweaks here and there.You need to be one as a community with a few people as main dictators.:har:Seriously though imagine what would happen if all the different modders came under one goal....to make HAHD(or whatever you wanna call it) the ultimate submarine simulation in the world.The leaders give out tasks,the modders make it happen.

Look at Project Reality for BF2 and just released for Arma2.This is a huge team of modders that come together for a common goal of creating real battlefields in the games they chose.They each get a job they are good at,like a few are excellent at changing the weapon positions and that is what they do mainly.Others are excellent at scripting in things like real mortars to rain down pain on enemies,ability to load airplanes with supplies to then drop to soldiers in the field in need.Others just create new vehicles or new troops etc.

WIKI
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Reality
Gameplay Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI7MBq89IC4

[urfisch]

yes, youre right. main problem is, there are too few who have the knowledge to mod sh5 and go beyond the borders...and some of them wont share their knowledge to others. so theres a big gap in skills. as someone said in another post, many of the "old gang" left the sh-series after the big fail of sh5. and most of who are left, mod sh3 or sh4, as they know what to do there. they got familiar with the structure and the tools used.

sh5´s only friendly side for modding is the scriptability. making scripted stuff (which cannot be done by many) and create custom UIs. but..if there is even NO slot for own 3d models?! no other uboats? no useful tools? no support for the modding-community? i can understand, why only a few comrades are left modding this game, its simply hard to mod.

look at "Cliffs of Dover". this is how a community is supported by the developers.

:yep:

but for us the reality is not that bright. we would need the help, cause beside the bugs, many things in sh5 seems already at its limit, even its the game with the best potential. but we cant use it, as to the knowledge limitations and the lack of good tools, which make modding easier for people, who have another live than coding software.

its a shame, what ubi did to us with sh5...when looking, what a great community grew in the years. it not only splitted the crew here, it also forced many to leave the boat. i get really upset...thinkin about this.

:nope:

[Hans Witteman]

... following the discussion initiated in the SH3 HAHD thread, TheDrakWraith wrote:

I think we all know by now that SH5 is the platform with most potential and most open to changes. But the main problem is that unfortunately any relevant changes are limited to people with very advanced skills like you or Privateer. Of course, in SH3/4 many things were like that, and had Swakjer not jumped in, we would still be sitting in the stone age, so to speak (Regarding tools that the average guy can use, not of course the hexeditors that only some brilliant minds can profit from). But the difference is that while in SH3/4 lots of brilliant minds pured in, following the worldwide success of SH3, the fiasco of SH5 has cut the community's wings almost completely.
What will happen to SH5 once you've had enough of it, TDW? SH3/4 can live and grow strong to their limits thanks to all that has been done, but SH5's potential is still largely unlocked and its fate lies in the had of very few people.

Quite frankly, SH4 as modding platform is nowadays a sure bet, while SH5 still is a promise. Even with all the brilliant and hard work you and other guys have put into it, I fail to see an area excet graphics where it has clearly surpassed SH3/4.

And as Makman brilliantly put it in the other thread, graphics are OK for a week of "Ohhhh" "Ahhhhh" "Wooooohhhh" but then ... you need gameplay.

That HAHD over SH5 would be simply the best thing next to sex with Miss Universe is clear to me, but HAHD has many more chances of being finished with SH4 than us having sex with Miss Universe, and that is the problem.

My 2 cents

Hi mate,

Excellent point you are bringing to the debate and if someone tell me that i can transform SH5 to SH3 then the decision would be obvious for me.

But so far even the top coding guru here can't give me that answer and someone that have the caliber of Skwasjer to do a real tool set is not born yet and i doubt someone will have the dedication skwasjer put in s3d editor skwasjer was a true programmer with experience and that show in his amazing tool and i get mad when i see folks here that are bashing him when they don't have an inch of his talent and knowledge.

So if anyone here can make a tool as good or better then s3d editor for SH5 then we can start talking seriously about the ultimate platform for our high quality vision.

A hex editor is a wonderful tool when you know how to use it but let's be realistic about what the workload is with a hex editor i mean large amount of assets integration like 3d models, textures, animation etc if done only by hex it will take you close to 500 years before your mod is done so hex for heavy modding is totally unrealistic.

Hex should only be a tool to write an editor like s3d editor to speed up the workflow thinking the other way around is pure non sense.

I can picture a game studio making a full game via hex release date 3088 Q1:k_rofl:
So are we going to look at it seriously in a real team effort or is this going to turn out as another EGO war?

Give me the tools i need and i will give you the ultimate dream sim.(As long as the platform choose is capable of some simulation)

Best regards Hans

[skwasjer]

I always think...why are modding communities so separated.If you look at modding teams in other games you will see what can happen is amazing when many form as one.


I agree somewhat yes. If SH3 was 'ditched' sooner by the community as a whole in favor of SH4, the pool of modders would have been bigger and SH4 would have had more success. And that's the downfall of SH5, at least for me but time will tell. But when it was launched, there simply werent enough people to carry over from SH4. Those that stuck with SH3 now find them looking at this thing called SH5 which is a couple of technologies ahead. That and lacking good tools makes it hard to get picked up by the mass. SH4 is the best bet for SH3-modders, it's engine is similar as are the tools. And there's a good framework built by the 'old dogs', both in gameplay and visuals. SH5 still has quite some time to go in that respect (not to mention the inability to import new models, at least easily)

[Hans Witteman]

I always think...why are modding communities so separated.If you look at modding teams in other games you will see what can happen is amazing when many form as one.

IMHO I would go for SH5 as main HAHD sim.It has scripting possibilities fellas.This allows so much to be added to the "simulation"....am I right?Look at TDW's work of adding in real navigation with things like asking the NO for a fix and getting response that weather is too bad.Possible to script in that every sub having its own dive model!!Sub in SH5 already has the function of a 3D walkaround as basis so new subs should be easily ported?? Sober or trevally(sorry I dont know exact)is working on the navigation buoys for ports to be exactly where they should be etc and on and on and on..........:up::up:

I still can't understand the way people are so attached to a certain version and constantly saying the other is bad.....same game engine with a few tweaks here and there.You need to be one as a community with a few people as main dictators.:har:Seriously though imagine what would happen if all the different modders came under one goal....to make HAHD(or whatever you wanna call it) the ultimate submarine simulation in the world.The leaders give out tasks,the modders make it happen.

Look at Project Reality for BF2 and just released for Arma2.This is a huge team of modders that come together for a common goal of creating real battlefields in the games they chose.They each get a job they are good at,like a few are excellent at changing the weapon positions and that is what they do mainly.Others are excellent at scripting in things like real mortars to rain down pain on enemies,ability to load airplanes with supplies to then drop to soldiers in the field in need.Others just create new vehicles or new troops etc.

WIKI
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Reality
Gameplay Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI7MBq89IC4

Hi mate,

Yep i know that since i begun HAHD i try to rally everyone to one major goal but EGO are to strong so it seem impossible because some have develop a cult like relationship and like to be adore by their cult follower!:k_rofl:
I have the strange feeling i will do all the work alone without much cooperation from others and this mean long hours ahead for me but luckily for supporter i am a very dedicated men when i start on a project i never let go until it is finish.

Also i am getting deeper in the coding aspect of thing and surprisingly i am not bad at all at it so getting more experience in that field is a plus for HAHD. When they don't want to share knowledge you have to beat them at their own game.

If only i could clone myself let's say to a dozen specimen then thing would start to be on the fast lane.:k_confused:
Best regards Hans

[TheDarkWraith]

You all need to quit being so freakin' lazy. I need tools to do this, I need tools to do that....that is pure and simple laziness and making excuses. Everybody in today's world wants things handed to them. They sit there with their hand out saying give me give me. Learn how the game engine works, learn the files and you will be much better at making whatever you want to make. Quit relying on crutches and others to do the work :nope: Everything isn't always easy....yes you might have to learn something for a change and it might take some time to do.
If I had this lazy/crutch mentality I'd be nowhere with SH5 today.
The excuse of only certain people possess the knowledge to do things in SH5 is total horse crap. Are you capable of learning? I think you are. You just choose to take the easy route and wait for a handout/crutch.

[Hans Witteman]

You all need to quit being so lazy. I need tools to do this, I need tools to do that....that is pure and simple laziness and making excuses. Everybody in today's world wants things handed to them. They sit there with their hand out saying give me give me. Learn how the game engine works, learn the files and you will be much better at making whatever you want to make. Quit relying on crutches and others to do the work :nope:

Hi mate,

Sorry to disappoint you but Skwasjer made something useful for the community that no one else will be able to do here period.

This is call cooperation someone with programing knowledge made a tool and 3d artists can pursue their vision with it.

Learning to master 3D art take years and very few are capable of doing everything even my best students were not able to do advanced stuff before a good 3 years of practice and polishing their skill.

So modding is exactly the same as game developing and in a studio we learn that cooperation between the programing department and the graphic design lead to success if done right.

And please i have a bunch of respect for you but your answer to Urfish is not very friendly to say the least imagine i come in SH5 forum saying to someone that we don't need him coming in SH3 forum.

Tact and diplomacy is a better way of dealing with people even the one we don't like to much:Kaleun_Salute:
Best regards Hans

[TheDarkWraith]

I have no problems with Urfish. I have problems with people putting down something because they choose not to try and understand/learn it :yep:
The unfamiliar is intimidating at first but when you break it down into little pieces and examine it you find it's not that unfamiliar.
I could care less what you all do with SH3 or SH4. But to come bashing SH5 because you don't understand it/it's unfamiliar is unacceptable. That kind of negativity will make SH5 go nowhere fast. There are a handful of us that are fighting hard to keep SH5 alive because we see the potential it has.

[Hans Witteman]

I have no problems with Urfish. I have problems with people putting down something because they choose not to try and understand/learn it :yep:

Hi mate,

So far no one clearly explain what is possible so the whole confusion begin right there and even if we go in each different forum the information on the sate of the modding possibility are not mention in a clear and precise readme so that what make people say misleading about this version or this one.

On my side i am now contemplating each version to attain our ultimate goal because it is a lot of work and i want to make the best possible investment of my time on a platform that will not be limited in the middle of the process .


We need another dedicated programer like skwasjer that is a real fact in my book.

Best regards Hans

[Wolfstriked]

:hmmm:I am only a lowly deckhand so I have no say in the matter but instead I have a view with no ego.:03:Why not agree to join forces right here and right now.3 very important people have posted in this mod in past 5 posts.If you all agree to take on leadership roles in your respective field then the magic can begin.....right??

First question is Skwajser,could you or rather will you make the tool for SH5?This is very important first step:up:Hans can keep doing what he is doing and TDW....there must be a zillion things that scripting will do to streamline this process?

[TheDarkWraith]

If you want to go the familiar route then SH4 is your best platform. It has potential way beyond SH3. This is my opinion only: modding SH3 is a waste of time when SH4 is far superior (comparing the two). But if you want all out raw power, flexibility, and a platform that can use advanced features then you have to turn to SH5 :yep:
They say first impressions last. My first impression of SH4 was that of total crap (because it was SH3 with a little more potential) thus is why I'll never go back to it. My first impression of SH5 was total crap also but peeking under the hood changed that impression in a heartbeat.

I hate the word scripting. It's not really scripting in SH5. It's a way to extend the game. You can make custom dlls and load them into the game via the 'scripting'. If you want to see scripting then look at the script engine I made for SH5 that lets you write your own scripts for the game engine to run.

Wolfstriked I hate working with others. It's just the way I am. I prefer to work alone. It's just much easier that way.

[Wolfstriked]

I agree somewhat yes. If SH3 was 'ditched' sooner by the community as a whole in favor of SH4, the pool of modders would have been bigger and SH4 would have had more success. And that's the downfall of SH5, at least for me but time will tell. But when it was launched, there simply werent enough people to carry over from SH4. Those that stuck with SH3 now find them looking at this thing called SH5 which is a couple of technologies ahead. That and lacking good tools makes it hard to get picked up by the mass. SH4 is the best bet for SH3-modders, it's engine is similar as are the tools. And there's a good framework built by the 'old dogs', both in gameplay and visuals. SH5 still has quite some time to go in that respect (not to mention the inability to import new models, at least easily)

The way I look at it though is that you will make all this work for SH4 and then have to port over to a very different engine in SH5.It seems that everyone should agree right now to all join in on Sh5.As you pointed out SH4 was disregarded and sadly so but now there is a better engine for everyone to pour their hearts in to.

[Anvart]

You all need to quit being so freakin' lazy. I need tools to do this, I need tools to do that....that is pure and simple laziness and making excuses. Everybody in today's world wants things handed to them. They sit there with their hand out saying give me give me. Learn how the game engine works, learn the files and you will be much better at making whatever you want to make. Quit relying on crutches and others to do the work :nope: Everything isn't always easy....yes you might have to learn something for a change and it might take some time to do.
If I had this lazy/crutch mentality I'd be nowhere with SH5 today.
The excuse of only certain people possess the knowledge to do things in SH5 is total horse crap. Are you capable of learning? I think you are. You just choose to take the easy route and wait for a handout/crutch.
:haha:
Oho, sounds not bad...
But why these "rant"... you are in modding, because you like it... you wants self-confirmation on the forum to raise your self-esteem.

[Hans Witteman]

Hi shipmates,

As we can see so far no majors modders from the SH4 community have show up so i think the SH4 community is not as active now as it was before.

Not blaming anyone here just seeing the lack of interest is not a good sign for building a solid team, let's hope it is just because they are away temporarily.

I did some test last night with the water shader and the water model aka animation algorithm and i think i will be able to fix the ocean mechanical behavior and for the lighting it is really easy to adjust to fit the overall look of the Atlantic theater.

When i will have spare time i will import the HAHD typ IIA to see if i can adjust the physic and behavior, i will post pic as soon as i have them.

Best regards Hans

[Hitman]

You all need to quit being so freakin' lazy. I need tools to do this, I need tools to do that....that is pure and simple laziness and making excuses. Everybody in today's world wants things handed to them. They sit there with their hand out saying give me give me. Learn how the game engine works, learn the files and you will be much better at making whatever you want to make. Quit relying on crutches and others to do the work :nope: Everything isn't always easy....yes you might have to learn something for a change and it might take some time to do.
If I had this lazy/crutch mentality I'd be nowhere with SH5 today.
The excuse of only certain people possess the knowledge to do things in SH5 is total horse crap. Are you capable of learning? I think you are. You just choose to take the easy route and wait for a handout/crutch.

I'm a jurist by profession; I finished high school and then 5 years university in laws plus 2 years sitting at home studying 14+ hours daily 365 days a year to pass one of the most hard exams possible in the spanish administration for becoming a highly qualified rate A public servant (Average time to pass that exam is normally 5 years).

I would like to see you, who IIRC are engineer by profession, learning in some weeks, months or even years to make the studies, informations or veredicts I do.

Despite having chosen the specialy of humanities at high school (which means no maths, physics or chemical study for me from the 10th grade onwards) I have learned to use Paint Shop pro, modelling programs, basic programming, and have participated and created lots of mods here and in motorsport sims.

But there is a limit, and I can't compete with someone who is dedicated to sciences and computers, same as him won't be able in many years to reach half the level I have as jurist.

You must accept it, mate, I know you have a brilliant mind and as such you tend to undersestimate the difficulties that other people, even if intelligent enough, have when it comes learn certain things. It's not a matter of lazyness, and I know any of us can learn a lot, but at what cost? If computers and programming is not your profession or key to it, but your hobby instead, the effort of learning the fundaments of what is needed to start creating tools or doing "deep" modding is simply not worth it.

Thinking that someone should invest almost as many years as in his professional formation, just to be able to add new units to a computer game is simply crazy ... accept it ;)

[ryanwigginton]

SH4 forum has become no mans land, where modders from SH3 and SH5 skirmish. :haha:

So many brilliant minds here. And a shame to see them so divided.

Hans, did you try Optical Targetting Correction mod with Trigger Maru 2.2? It's enjoyable experience.

I believe SH4 platform offers better damage and flooding modelling. Surely a huge bonus!

[BUKER]

When i will have spare time i will import the HAHD typ IIA to see if i can adjust the physic and behavior, i will post pic as soon as i have them.

Hi Hans,
Recently, I have not seen your new pictures, it would be very interesting to watch.:hmmm:

I think would be something like this::)
IID
http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/9440/sh4img20100807225145796.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/851/sh4img20100807225145796.jpg/)
IIA
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/79/sh4img20100811212504984ndi.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/692/sh4img20100811212504984ndi.jpg/)
http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/5915/sh4img20100811213122765.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/sh4img20100811213122765.jpg/)

[Anvart]

I'm a jurist by profession ...
you, who IIRC are engineer by profession ...
I know you have a brilliant mind ...
I think you're slightly wrong.
The engineer is not a profession ... it's category of labor.
Thermotechnics engineer - it's a profession, but it also touches to IT how and the profession of jurist.
Of course general erudition man that ended a technical university allowing him easier to learn the wisdom of IT. But the main it's human character, his desire for knowledge and skill to his curiosity.
I know more than a hundred people with technical education, but are not able to learn to work with HexEditor, Photoshop, 3ds max and so on... because they lack the desire and patience to learn it.
... and personally i do not see ... "you have a brilliant mind", sorry, but i see great desire to know more and more...

[Madox58]

I need tools to do this, I need tools to do that....that is pure and simple laziness and making excuses.

Not really Mate.
Even you use Pack3D to import the 3D models and by your own statements, have written some tools of your own.
:03:

I do agree some people are a bit lacking in the will to take time to properly learn a few things before demanding answers to thier questions.
But that's just a part of the Modding scene.

As for which is the 'Better' platform?
I think that's personal choice on each users part.

If this was a forum about Beer/Cars?
You'd see the same arguements going on as to what beer/car is the better beer/car!
:haha:

SO, I like all 3 SH Versions for different reasons.
I drink Keystone Light cause I like it best just now.
And I drive a Dodge but prefer the Wifes Grand Prix cause I prefer Pontiacs.

Oh, I'm also a Viking's fan.
Not those panty waste Football players!
The REAL Vikings with horns and great big battle axes!
:har:

[Hitman]

Well Anvart at least here in Spain (And in Germany & the USA AFAIK) engineer is an universitary study of at least 5 years (Normally with one additional year for a project) and not simply a category of labour. Of course you can study in the university, get the title, and later however not work as engineer, but the opposite is not possible.

:yep:

I drink Keystone Light cause I like it best just now.
And I drive a Dodge but prefer the Wifes Grand Prix cause I prefer Pontiacs.

Nonesense Jeff, everybody knows Budweiser and Ford respectively are much better :har:

[TheDarkWraith]

Not really Mate.
Even you use Pack3D to import the 3D models and by your own statements, have written some tools of your own.
:03:

You are correct there :up: But here's the difference: instead of waiting around for someone else to do it I took matters into my own hands and made what needed to be made to do what I wanted done. Now creating these tools was not easy. It took me months, sometimes years, to make them and I had to do a lot of reading and studying up on DirectX, C++, and had to learn C# and Python. End result is I have a much better understanding of how things work under the hood of the game.
More people need to do a little learning of their own. Yes it takes time and yes it interferes with your hobbies and all but there's no excuse to not try and learn something new every day. The mind is a terrible thing to waste.

@ Anvart - yes I have an insatiable thirst for knowledge. My curiosity drives me to seek out and learn new things. I utterly hate not knowing how/why something works. I will take something apart (software, hardware, whatever) just to see the hows and whys of it. Engineer is a broad term, yes, but if you must know I'm a Nuclear engineer and an Electrical engineer by background currently working in the electrical field.

[Madox58]

Nonesense Jeff, everybody knows Budweiser and Ford respectively are much better :har:

So what's your stance on Vikings?
:hmmm:
:har:

[Anvart]

Well Anvart at least here in Spain (And in Germany & the USA AFAIK) engineer is an universitary study of at least 5 years ...
:DL
I see you did not understand me ...
One word ENGINEER does not define a profession ... need to add word for specialization (such as programmer, designer of electronic equipment and so on). This word defines the scope and range of knowledge that is necessary to obtain ...
In our technical university, students also learn to 5 years + degree work.

[Hitman]

Ah now I see, yes we have industrial engineers, road engineers, naval engineers, aerospacial engineers, and so on :up:

[Anvart]

...
@ Anvart - yes I have an insatiable thirst for knowledge. My curiosity drives me to seek out and learn new things. I utterly hate not knowing how/why something works. I will take something apart (software, hardware, whatever) just to see the hows and whys of it. Engineer is a broad term, yes, but if you must know I'm a Nuclear engineer and an Electrical engineer by background currently working in the electrical field.
:up:
Our man!

P.S. I'm ... it does not matter... :haha:

[Madox58]

It's pretty much been proven to me that what you were trained in means little when it comes to Modding any Game.

So 'such and such' is a Theoretical Quantum Physicist with advanced degrees, or has a BA in Business Administration.
Maybe he's just a common HS grad.
He may still in HS!!

Most Modders are Hobby Modders.
It's what we do to get away from REAL Life.

For me?
Modding involves my mind as I crawl under a House with 8 inches of space.
At times I must blow all the air out of my lungs to get to where I need to go the space is so tight!

I've seen people panic in such situations and become trapped or worse.
As I crawl areas like this?
I'm thinking of what I need to do with my Modding Hobby.

Maybe SH Modding is why I get paid the big bucks to go places where no one else will go?
:hmmm:

[Anvart]

I could never devote a lot of time for SH modding... Life is beautiful and amazing and without SH modding...
:har:

[Hans Witteman]

It's pretty much been proven to me that what you were trained in means little when it comes to Modding any Game.

So 'such and such' is a Theoretical Quantum Physicist with advanced degrees, or has a BA in Business Administration.
Maybe he's just a common HS grad.
He may still in HS!!

Most Modders are Hobby Modders.
It's what we do to get away from REAL Life.

For me?
Modding involves my mind as I crawl under a House with 8 inches of space.
At times I must blow all the air out of my lungs to get to where I need to go the space is so tight!

I've seen people panic in such situations and become trapped or worse.
As I crawl areas like this?
I'm thinking of what I need to do with my Modding Hobby.

Maybe SH Modding is why I get paid the big bucks to go places where no one else will go?
:hmmm:

Hi mate,

IIRC the best modder in Forgotten hope was a janitor! :k_rofl:
Sh4 forum is really a strange one people are talking about their degree and profession!

Neal if you read this make a new section call Profession and title!

Back to what that forum is meant to be, last night i did some test and is it just me but something feel very wrong with the physic of the boat in the water i mean i don't have the feeling that the boat is actually in the water.

Compare to sh3 i feel that my boat is really in the water maybe just some tweaking in the .sim file.

For the wiggling of the water i try real environment from kriller and they seem to have fix that annoying behavior.

The strong point that i find very disappointing at the moment is the way the crew is manage and the boat upgrade system that is done automatically i truly hate that.

I want my SH3 crew back on this one + my sub upgrade menu and this might be impossible because the way they drastically change the crew management and upgrade of boat.

It feel empty without it at least for me maybe some like it this way but personally i prefer the sh3 management.

Also the interface is simply ugly and doesn't feel that the story is in the 1940 period.

Since i am currently working on a new damage model for HAHD SH3 i really find the new damage model on Sh4 pretty bad looking they call it 3d but there is nothing 3d there this is just and alpha mask instead of a black splotch that let you see the interior and since the hull area touch have no thickness to it it feel very odd but that no big deal we can just revert this to my new damage model.

Best regards Hans

[Sailor Steve]

The strong point that i find very disappointing at the moment is the way the crew is manage and the boat upgrade system that is done automatically i truly hate that.

I want my SH3 crew back on this one + my sub upgrade menu and this might be impossible because the way they drastically change the crew management and upgrade of boat.
I find that interesting, since the crew management is, in my opinion, one of the best things about SH4. No, you don't get a picture of the sub and its interior, but the crew works in realistic shifts. How do you handle management in SH3? Do you move them around every few hours or just turn it off?

[Hans Witteman]

I find that interesting, since the crew management is, in my opinion, one of the best things about SH4. No, you don't get a picture of the sub and its interior, but the crew works in realistic shifts. How do you handle management in SH3? Do you move them around every few hours or just turn it off?

Hi mate,

I know not everyone like micro management but i am a die hard fan of that.
I really like to motherhood my crew and moving them when required and sometime it brought up some pretty stressful moment when attacking a convoy ex: there is not enough crew to manage the battery compartment kaleun and then the stress crank up a bit.

Some might hate it but i love it.

And i prefer to have my crew icons with according orders under their respective duty it feel more like i have a real crew then icon with colorful state.

Probably impossible to turn it back to the SH3 style and this might be a point that could refrain my enthusiasm to port it over.

Best regards Hans

[Anvart]

...
Sh4 forum is really a strange one people are talking about their degree and profession!
...
Back to what that forum is meant to be,...
... everything you write is not news for us, and already almost forgotten things. Continue to analyze.
Sorry... http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/3063/offtopicly.gif

...
Compare to sh3 i feel that my boat is really in the water maybe just some tweaking in the .sim file.
...
1) Adjust waves...
2) Adjust mass of u-boat (even if it's not historical value) and phisics in *.sim.

[Hitman]

I agree with Steve, I always hated playing UBoat nurse, hence I have always played with fatigue set to zero.

Back to what that forum is meant to be, last night i did some test and is it just me but something feel very wrong with the physic of the boat in the water i mean i don't have the feeling that the boat is actually in the water.

Compare to sh3 i feel that my boat is really in the water maybe just some tweaking in the .sim file.

Was a well known issue from the stock version, make a search for "sub on rails". It was more or less fixed later on by modders.

[Wolfstriked]

I am a 7th grade dropout:yeah:I drive a truck for Fedex also....:O:

Trust me its hard when you have no education and just wing stuff.Then again Apple computers was started by a high school dropout in his garage and is now top dog in every place I deliver to.I deliver Apple PC's all day long.

To mod in water physics its all in the scene.dat and the individual sub.sim file.

[skwasjer]

@TDW

lol, lol, and... lol

I mean, so shall I grab back some of the PM's where you asked me about SH5 scripting, C# / Visual Studio? Even you needed (beginners)help from the guru named skwasjer. It's hard to admit, I know...

Nobody's perfect. Some like to learn coding, others don't. You seem to like it, and that's good. I hope you will keep improving, there's still much to learn.

In the end everybody wants to use specific designed tools for specific tasks if that makes it easier for them. Remember the guy that invented the wheel? I'm pretty sure you used Visual Studio for C# work, instead of notepad.exe right?

So please stop telling everyone to do it the hard way. It's annoying.

:up:

[Madox58]

I am a 7th grade dropout:yeah:I drive a truck for Fedex also....:O:


Bravo Mate!
:up:

I dropped out of Business Administration and went to jumping out of AirCraft to kill people.
:haha:

In the mid '90's I opened the very first ISP in my area while working in a factory!
:D

Now I work strictly in Destruction/Construction as a self-employed person.
15 years now doing that!

Education means less then determination.

[Wolfstriked]

Bravo Mate!
:up:

I dropped out of Business Administration and went to jumping out of AirCraft to kill people.
:haha:

In the mid '90's I opened the very first ISP in my area while working in a factory!
:D

Now I work strictly in Destruction/Construction as a self-employed person.
15 years now doing that!

Education means less then determination.

Yes,thats true but a brilliant mind is probably most important here.There is a guy who mods stalker and adds in new stuff daily like its nothing.You want something added then voila its done with absolutely no issues and the next day.Crazy how he does that......

[urfisch]

@TDW

lol, lol, and... lol

I mean, so shall I grab back some of the PM's where you asked me about SH5 scripting, C# / Visual Studio? Even you needed (beginners)help from the guru named skwasjer. It's hard to admit, I know...

Nobody's perfect. Some like to learn coding, others don't. You seem to like it, and that's good. I hope you will keep improving, there's still much to learn.

In the end everybody wants to use specific designed tools for specific tasks if that makes it easier for them. Remember the guy that invented the wheel? I'm pretty sure you used Visual Studio for C# work, instead of notepad.exe right?

So please stop telling everyone to do it the hard way. It's annoying.

:up:

absolutely right...but

its not only about "like" to learn coding...its also about the time to be able to learn and the soft skills. i surely would like to learn coding, as i did in actionscript, php and html AND updating the templates of silent editor for sh5.

:rock:

;)

but we all know, time is rare. we all often havent got enough of it, to do all the things we want to do. so i simply have no time to dig in this coding stuff as deep, as i had to beeing able to use the skills for sh-modding. beside this, i have my problems in understanding the logic of coding structures and reverse engineering. i am more the visually skilled type of human, not the math-type who works investigational.

[Wolfstriked]

Trust me,as a man who has worked in sweat shops and dock work most my life,there are large differences in intelligence between people.Most of you are educated so do not know how stupid some humans are.Sorry to sound so harsh but there is no other word for it.

Take the pie equation for electrical work and then a step up and step down electrical circuit.I found it easy but many of my friends could not grasp the concept.I tried and tried to explain to them even using the book I learned from as a guide and they were lost.I also had one friend who could not understand how an underground filter in a fish tank worked:oI also had a friend who would fight with me that fired chicken had no calories but that another story in itself.:nope:

So you guys pushing that its just determination to learn is kinda silly.Ok,here is one that I ask people to understand and they "ALL" tell me its easy and they understand.:rotfl2:(thats why they clean toilets);)

I am talking about Einsteins theory of relativity.I was told its about gravity and how time is based on gravity.If you are to go into space and be away from any gravitational pull of planets....and then travel faster then the speed of light time will never change.Now I wanna see someone here who says they understand that.:88):sunny::zzz:

[Hitman]

I am talking about Einsteins theory of relativity.I was told its about gravity and how time is based on gravity.If you are to go into space and be away from any gravitational pull of planets....and then travel faster then the speed of light time will never change.Now I wanna see someone here who says they understand that.:88):sunny::zzz:

Be patient, TDW will provide a working example everybody can understand in some moments :haha:

No, seriously, I think you have a point and urfish again hit the bull's eye:

but we all know, time is rare. we all often havent got enough of it, to do all the things we want to do. so i simply have no time to dig in this coding stuff as deep, as i had to beeing able to use the skills for sh-modding.

That's also the key: In the scarce availabel time I have, I can do one of both things: Learn C, C+, hexediting or whatever, OR mod. If I do the first (And asuming I could even be able to learn it quickly), then I don't mod at all, and worser even, when I'm done with C+ it might happen that my interest has shifted to another game that requires something else different :doh:

[Anvart]

...
Most of you are educated so do not know how stupid some humans are ...
Education and mind (intellect) are two different things, but they are mutually reinforcing...
Education polishes natural mind (intelligence), bringing it to "the state of the diamond".
...
And with a university degree there are narrow-minded people... as our former rulers. :haha:
...
That's also the key: In the scarce availabel time I have, I can do ...
The vast majority of modders have had time's shortage...

[Wolfstriked]

Be patient, TDW will provide a working example everybody can understand in some moments :haha:

No, seriously, I think you have a point and urfish again hit the bull's eye:


If he comes on here and says he understands it when supposedly only 10 or so people in the world knows what Einstein meant then we truly have a great among us.:D

LMAO....Just joking TDW I know you are great already sir.....:salute:

[Wolfstriked]

Education and mind (intellect) are two different things, but they are mutually reinforcing...
Education polishes natural mind (intelligence), bringing it to "the state of the diamond".
And with a university degree there are narrow-minded people... as our former rulers. :haha:

Exactly,there are so many components of intelligence.Memory retention is one and alot of people have this in high amounts but its not what I consider intelliegence.For me intelligence is when someone makes something new or devises ways to further a product we already have that many said was at its max capacity.Take for example this company that I read about where they say they made a new battery that can be used for electric cars,recharges in 5 minutes in stead of 5 hours and provides more power to boot.The team needs money to fund it though and it seems that no one is jumping in which suprises me since this idea will allow electric cars to be common place since the battery will be also cheap to buy and not the 37thousand it costs now for a battery that you need to replace peridocially.

http://www.prietobattery.com/

And what I meant about the working with educated people making you forget how dumb humans can be is that you will most likely never have a coworker tell you that you can eat all the chicken you want and never gain weight.......as long as its fried chicken of course....:up:

[Madox58]

Judgeing intellegence seems to be a matter of perspective.
I've seen people with degrees in many fields freak out when I crawl into an 8" hole, or climb a 500'+ tower.

I've only ever felt I had a better grasp on my own mind then most people have.

The biggest wall I have ever faced is the wall I created in my mind!
If you convince yourself that you can not do something?
It's done.
If you convince yourself that you CAN do it?
You will!!

I was afraid of heights until I jumped out of AirCraft.
I was afraid of tight spaces until I crawled into them.
I was afraid of failing anything until I figured out failing something ment I just had to get my mind set right and try again.

[Wolfstriked]

:hmmm:So your saying that the friend chicken guy will be able to write code?:hmmm:

[drakkhen20]

hey hans, glad to see you made your way down into SH4 mods. by far it would be great and awsome for you to extend your talents in improving OM for the SH community. i do not take any credit on the work that has been done in our mod The Kriegsmarine add-on mod for OM, i just started the idea and was trying to keep the fire started but from some real life situations and lack of communications it would seem that fire has died out. we did have a modder that was transferring SH5 uboats to OM such as the TypeVII A,B,C and perhaps later the IXDs. the type A was coming along excellent and was beautiful so far. I have a sound fix that brought the GWX feel into the game and background fixes and wallpapers and some lighting and weather improvments, oh and we had Wolfpacks figured out but was working on models. but as you stated before the fire has died out due to SH5 and loyal SH3 fans. so like i said its nice to see you in here poking around and i wish it would be more exciting though. :salute:


Regards,
drakkhen20
P.S.- in regards to our mod. if you have any further questions PM me.

[Ducimus]

All i'm going to say this was my rebuttal to SH5, and to show to the SH3 crowd what SH4 is capable of:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1426506&postcount=1
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1448920&postcount=121
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1449876&postcount=139

Naturally, since im a Fleet boat fanboy of some renown, my words and work fell of deaf ears, and closed eyes. Regardless, feel free to use whatever you want from that rough beta build i posted. I do actually have a number of fixes in there in regard to the crew graph files. Sonarman should work properly. Vanilla he does not.

The nice thing about uboats as a modder, is you have plenty of resources already made to draw from. The work is in converting them to SH4 controllers and such, but even that is less work then doing everything from scratch.

As an aside, no, im not modding and im very much done. So take whatever you want from my work, but that's about all the help ill give. I have no silent hunter title installed, and have no intention of installing any of them.

[Madox58]

All i'm going to say this was my rebuttal to SH5, and to show to the SH3 crowd what SH4 is capable of:


You know what the saddest part is Mate?
It will all probably be totally ignored as others try to re-invent the Wheel.
:nope:

[urfisch]

You know what the saddest part is Mate?
It will all probably be totally ignored as others try to re-invent the Wheel.
:nope:

THAT is one of the points which wont gets into my brain! You are so right. IGNORED is very right. SH4 has very big potential. But many are so good experts, who really know, what sh3 can do. And beside this, there are even more experts, who know, what sh5 can do!

But they all ignore, that sh5 modding is limited to a few people. And the hardcode limits are an unpassable frontier at the moment, without any further knowledge. And sh3 might also has some potential left...but it is overestimated in many ways, as it has almost reached its final destination.

So in the end its all about faith again. Not, what the best to do.

[brabham85]

What can I say?

My first Silent Hunter was the 3. And I was so dig in, the game was so intense, the perspective of a naval game with so much detail and history was great at the time, the perspective of a new view on the second world war games is the greatest appeal of Silent Hunter titles. And for years, even now, with all the mods and stuff that refine SH3 to may taste, I'm still have a crush to this old, and great, sea wolf.

But, let's face it: the game is dated. SH3 has got the limits, there isn't the step further because the next step is SH4.

I'll play U-boat HAHD on SH3 or 4, even 5 - if you're nuts enough for that, because 5 is eye candy, but has only type 7 and it isn't a simulator - but, in my opinion, the efforts should aim in SH4. The game has, in my understanding, a better support, more resources e more ground to further developments then SH3.

[Diablo2]

Looks like SH4 is on the backburner as of now.:cry: Hopefully they'l get around to modding this game, unfortunately it just seems like most have jumped from SH3 to 5 or just stayed on 3 and never gave 4 a chance..:hmmm: Anyway i support HAHD whatever engine they take ill probably end up playing it.:up: Hell i still have SH2 installed, might try modding that lol..:rock: jkjk

[Sailor Steve]

Once upon a time there was a GWX4 in the planning. First it got put aside for GWX3 (which, while for SH3 was not a new thing, but an extension of 2.1) then dropped altogether due to the impending release of SH5. Don't get your hopes up though. That team disbanded at that time and have gone their separate ways. Some of them are still working on things, mostly SH5 but a little SH4.

HAHD is our biggest hope for the future right now, but not until the SH3 version is finished.

[Hans Witteman]

hey hans, glad to see you made your way down into SH4 mods. by far it would be great and awsome for you to extend your talents in improving OM for the SH community. i do not take any credit on the work that has been done in our mod The Kriegsmarine add-on mod for OM, i just started the idea and was trying to keep the fire started but from some real life situations and lack of communications it would seem that fire has died out. we did have a modder that was transferring SH5 uboats to OM such as the TypeVII A,B,C and perhaps later the IXDs. the type A was coming along excellent and was beautiful so far. I have a sound fix that brought the GWX feel into the game and background fixes and wallpapers and some lighting and weather improvments, oh and we had Wolfpacks figured out but was working on models. but as you stated before the fire has died out due to SH5 and loyal SH3 fans. so like i said its nice to see you in here poking around and i wish it would be more exciting though. :salute:


Regards,
drakkhen20
P.S.- in regards to our mod. if you have any further questions PM me.

Hi mate,

Thank for replying and it is nice to see you are still active on this forum.

Fot the moment i will put it on ice since we must finish and deliver for SH3 but at the end most of the work would just have to be port in SH4.

And yes i know that it is pretty hard these days to find fellows modders that are dedicated onto the long journey of building a supermod.

These days people just consumed and trash everything in a matter of week but i am not like that when i see a classic i can play it even long after the crowd have left.

Immortalizing history is our greatest reward. :Kaleun_Salute:
Best regards Hans

[Hans Witteman]

All i'm going to say this was my rebuttal to SH5, and to show to the SH3 crowd what SH4 is capable of:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1426506&postcount=1
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1448920&postcount=121
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1449876&postcount=139

Naturally, since im a Fleet boat fanboy of some renown, my words and work fell of deaf ears, and closed eyes. Regardless, feel free to use whatever you want from that rough beta build i posted. I do actually have a number of fixes in there in regard to the crew graph files. Sonarman should work properly. Vanilla he does not.

The nice thing about uboats as a modder, is you have plenty of resources already made to draw from. The work is in converting them to SH4 controllers and such, but even that is less work then doing everything from scratch.

As an aside, no, im not modding and im very much done. So take whatever you want from my work, but that's about all the help ill give. I have no silent hunter title installed, and have no intention of installing any of them.

Hi mate,

Nice to see you here.

For the moment everything is put on ice but you can rest assure that if we port it after finishing it for SH3 that we will include all due credit for any part used in HAHD.:Kaleun_Salute:
Best regards Hans

[Hans Witteman]

What can I say?

My first Silent Hunter was the 3. And I was so dig in, the game was so intense, the perspective of a naval game with so much detail and history was great at the time, the perspective of a new view on the second world war games is the greatest appeal of Silent Hunter titles. And for years, even now, with all the mods and stuff that refine SH3 to may taste, I'm still have a crush to this old, and great, sea wolf.

But, let's face it: the game is dated. SH3 has got the limits, there isn't the step further because the next step is SH4.

I'll play U-boat HAHD on SH3 or 4, even 5 - if you're nuts enough for that, because 5 is eye candy, but has only type 7 and it isn't a simulator - but, in my opinion, the efforts should aim in SH4. The game has, in my understanding, a better support, more resources e more ground to further developments then SH3.

Hi mate,

Indeed Sh3 will still be a classic in my book but if we can port our work to SH4 later on we will have more room for improvement.

I would be the first surprised if anytime in the future they can modify SH5 to play like SH3, the way the game structure is made now is so different that i seriously doubt they can make it even a closer bit to SH3.

I don't understand the game studio mentality these recent years, when you have a winning formula why not simply upgrade the whole thing to the most recent graphic technology and you please your most loyal customer instead of trying to reach out all teenagers that are wasting their time on WOW.

SH3 only need recent shader technology and a couple of FX to be the unbeatable king of the hill for eon to come.

Best regards Hans

[Hans Witteman]

Looks like SH4 is on the backburner as of now.:cry: Hopefully they'l get around to modding this game, unfortunately it just seems like most have jumped from SH3 to 5 or just stayed on 3 and never gave 4 a chance..:hmmm: Anyway i support HAHD whatever engine they take ill probably end up playing it.:up: Hell i still have SH2 installed, might try modding that lol..:rock: jkjk

Hi mate,

Nice to see some folks are still playing SH2!

SH5 feel so wrong that i cannot understand why some are still playing it but hey if only some nice ocean is enough to satisfy you then go for sh5.

I try it with recent mod and it simply doesn't do the magic at all maybe in 5 year from here but for now you have a more joyful experience in SH3 and 4.

Best regards Hans

[Hans Witteman]

Once upon a time there was a GWX4 in the planning. First it got put aside for GWX3 (which, while for SH3 was not a new thing, but an extension of 2.1) then dropped altogether due to the impending release of SH5. Don't get your hopes up though. That team disbanded at that time and have gone their separate ways. Some of them are still working on things, mostly SH5 but a little SH4.

HAHD is our biggest hope for the future right now, but not until the SH3 version is finished.

Hi mate,

Yep you say it all we will start it after we first finish it for SH3 but the longest and hardest part of modding will be done and will only need porting to SH4.

Best regards Hans

[Ducimus]

SH3 only need recent shader technology and a couple of FX to be the unbeatable king of the hill for eon to come.


SH4 does has some "under the hood" systemic changes in the files that are quite nice, and a vast improvement over SH3. Most of these changes pertain to campaign scripting, and is one reason SH4 loads faster then SH3, and SH5. In all practical terms, SH4 is a campaign writers wet dream when compared to SH3.

[brabham85]

Hi mate,

Indeed Sh3 will still be a classic in my book but if we can port our work to SH4 later on we will have more room for improvement.

I would be the first surprised if anytime in the future they can modify SH5 to play like SH3, the way the game structure is made now is so different that i seriously doubt they can make it even a closer bit to SH3.

I don't understand the game studio mentality these recent years, when you have a winning formula why not simply upgrade the whole thing to the most recent graphic technology and you please your most loyal customer instead of trying to reach out all teenagers that are wasting their time on WOW.

SH3 only need recent shader technology and a couple of FX to be the unbeatable king of the hill for eon to come.

Best regards Hans

Yeah, Hans, but, oh my, what a ocean! SH3 with that kind of graphics and a little shake in the mechanics - convoys behaviour, wolf packs and things like that - would be more than a classic, would be a ultimate title in naval simulators.

[jaxa]

Kameraden, what about this project? I have read HAHD thread on SH3 forum and it sounds promising, but IMHO the better choice as a base for this mod would be SH4. Is it alive or cancelled?

[Madox58]

The HAHD Team has stated many times that the release will be for SH3.
After that they 'May' consider a SH4 release.
What you don't understand is that a PROPER conversion to SH4 involves many extra steps.
The creation of AO and the Swizzled Normal maps is just a small start.
Every aspect of the sim/val also needs adjusted.
No small feat as the early versions done for GWX 4 proved it was on a scale nearly equal to all other work ever done for SH3!

[fitzcarraldo]

Kameraden, what about this project? I have read HAHD thread on SH3 forum and it sounds promising, but IMHO the better choice as a base for this mod would be SH4. Is it alive or cancelled?

I´m a player of SH4 (American Campaign), and I like very much the sim, but, sincerely, I prefer HAHD in SH3. With the improvements in the SH3.exe made by the maesters H.sie and Stiebler, SH4 is very....old? in comparission.

HAHD will have new graphics (awesome), and with the realistic options will be a must for ATO.

Best regards.

Fitzcarraldo :salute:

[ReallyDedPoet]

The HAHD Team has stated many times that the release will be for SH3.
After that they 'May' consider a SH4 release.
What you don't understand is that a PROPER conversion to SH4 involves many extra steps.
The creation of AO and the Swizzled Normal maps is just a small start.
Every aspect of the sim/val also needs adjusted.
No small feat as the early versions done for GWX 4 proved it was on a scale nearly equal to all other work ever done for SH3!

I like this. See how it goes with 3, then possibly move
it to 4. There would be advantages, much shorter
load times being a major one.