Was the command room empty when surfaced in real Uboat?

[Wolfstriked]

A question for anyone knowledgeable in Uboat shift duty.....mainly Hitman as he seems to know alot about Uboat duty.First off love the christmas tree lights and how the crew come down from the deck to take their spots with Diving Ducks open hatch mod:up::up:.

One thing that SH4 had that was such an excellent addition is battle stations.To see an empty command room that suddenly fills with crew ready for an attack gives high immersion IMO.I wonder if its also possible to move the dive officer from his post in front of the ballast tank controls and also to put the CE in the crew quarters and have the helmsman spot empty.The CE was not a boat helmsman and that throws me to see him there.Hitman....was the dive officer and the "real" helmsman at duty in command room when surfaced?I would think that they both went up to deck and course was maintained by the deck crew.

[Sailor Steve]

First of all, the real helmsman is the guy who sits at the wheel and steers the boat. Actually the germans didn't use a wheel but two levers that actuated the rudders hydraulically. He sat at the front of the the control room, and neither SH3 nor SH4 has him. SH5 does.

The Chief Engineer was indeed in the control room, and gave the specific orders, such as dive plane positions and pump control orders (if Das Boot is to be believed, which is of course not guaranteed). But that was the procedure in the US Navy, the man-on-the-spot being the Officer Of the Deck. Of course the "Dive Officer" in the Kriegsmarine might have been someone else than the LI; possibly an off-duty watch officer.

Your guess about the helmsan being at the bridge station seems to be a good one. There was a helm station there. Under normal cruising there would be no need, as all he has to do is keep the boat on the assigned heading. In a surface attack, however, it could be important to have him right where the captain can give him orders without waiting for them to be relayed below. There was another helm station in the conning tower for that exact purpose - submerged attacks using the attack periscope. In port of course he would be on the bridge because he needs to steer by sight.

[Hitman]

In a surface attack, however, it could be important to have him right where the captain can give him orders without waiting for them to be relayed below.

Your intuition proved right again Steve, there was a voice tube at the bridge that communicated both with the conning tower and control room helmsman post :up:

If you look here: http://www.msichicago.org/fileadmin/Exhibits/permanent/u505/u505_interior5.jpg

you can see the end of the tube, with the amplifier, popping up into the control room between both engine telegraphs. The helmsman was sitting left-below, just in front of the compass rose seen there.

[Wolfstriked]

Sorry if you answered already but I am still confused......

We are certain that when surfaced the two dive planes men would become watch crew.I really would think that the ballast control helmsman would go to deck to be on watch duty also since its silly to stand a guy there for his 4 hour shift doing absolutely nothing.Now the steering helmsman.....would he stay at his station in command room or steer from the bridge?

The more I think about it the more it would be a command room station.Firstly,having to maintain course would steal from the ever important task of keeping watch for one of the men.Second is at night you need to light up the compass dial(were they?).Then the fact that going off course is such a detriment and a person standing in bad weather trying to concentrate on two important tasks is probably too much.


Another question is...was there only one watch officer?

[Wolfstriked]

Just watched a SH5 video and the guy is seated steering the boat so nevermind my question.:salute:

[Hitman]

would he stay at his station in command room or steer from the bridge?

Steve already guessed right: From the control room ordinarily (Why expose him to bad weather, hamper the quick dive with one more man in the bridge and also disturb the watch crew?) as he simply had to follow compass course, from the CT in bigger subs like Type IX with more space (Not in VII and II AFAIK) during submerged attacks, and eventually from the bridge during docking in/out :up:

[Hitman]

Another question is...was there only one watch officer?

No, there were two, the IWO and the IIWO. Although the first one had also more important functions in administrating the boat and managing the crew, and was normally senior in rank to the IIWO, the latter asumed full duty functions as watch officer when on service. Essentially, both would take turns in 4 hour shifts as officer on the deck, to "watch the lookouts" and take the decissions (Crash dive if no time to consult captain, or call captain to bridge, etc)

[Sailor Steve]

This explains it well.
http://www.uboataces.com/ref-crew.shtml

I thought I remember reading that the Navigator also acted as a de facto watch officer, allowing for three watches rather than two. I can't remember where, though, or if that's actually correct.

[Wolfstriked]

Ahh great stuff thanks guys.Now to mod in a helmsman chair and animate a crew member at the helm.:yawn::hmmm::88):har:

Did not know that the chief watch officer was second in command.Always thought the chief engineer would be for various reasons.

[Sailor Steve]

Ahh great stuff thanks guys.Now to mod in a helmsman chair and animate a crew member at the helm.:yawn::hmmm::88):har:
They got it right for SH5.

Did not know that the chief watch officer was second in command.Always thought the chief engineer would be for various reasons.
The Germans, like the British, kept Engineering a separate division, considering engineers to be something like magicians. This meant that in both navies an engineer was never part of the command structure. No matter his rank, if everyone died but the lowliest leutnant, the LI answered to him.

[Wolfstriked]

I guess they figured that the nerdy super smart fellas are not real strong in the commanding part so kinda makes sense.Still seems crazy though.

[Sailor Steve]

I think it's more a matter of training philosophy. On larger ships they have doctors and lawyers who are officers, but they are also outside the command structure.

[Hitman]

Ahh great stuff thanks guys.Now to mod in a helmsman chair and animate a crew member at the helm

It would really be great if someone could clone one of the planesmen and put him at the helm station permanently. The same animations it already has would suffice for a good first attempt, even if he went crazy during emergency surfacing.

[Anvart]

It would really be great if someone could clone one of the planesmen ...
Do you have any problems doing this?
Find some posts about it...

[Hitman]

Do you have any problems doing this?

Yes ... TIME :wah:

[Anvart]

Yes ... TIME :wah:
:DL
To do main part of this work... need one hour... not more...

[Wolfstriked]

Need a seat though as there is none in that position.Really kool how SH5 has him there.:up::up:No one has responded yet on the ballast tank crew man.....if he went on deck or not......

[postalbyke]

IAW Das Boot (which seems to make sense on this point), the petty officers or seamen on lookout watch manned the bow/stern planes controls upon submerging. this maintains alert people on watch, and they would not be needed at both stations at the same time. It also makes submerged watch sections the same as surfaced watch sections. (bow planes, stern planes, pump operator, ...?)

Has anyone seen/heard reference to an underway watch bill for an operational WWII U-boat?