Your Preference: Same boat throughout the war, or climb the submarine ladder?

[Ducimus]

Im sure ive posted a simlilar poll before, but an Inquiring mind wants to know.
Some people get partial to their submarine, and love their "old girl" and like to see it evolve over time.
Other people prefer to get the latest and greatest in submarine types.
If you had to choose between one of the two, which is your greatest preference?

[razark]

"...as they become available."

Does that mean that when a new boat type is available, you get moved to it, or just the option of taking a newer boat?

I liked SH3, where I could earn my way into a new boat, with the class being my choice, when I chose to upgrade. I'm a bit annoyed with SH4, where I'm offered an upgrade, and not given any sort of choice. It seems a bit broken to me, and I believe the level of brokeness has been demonstrated before.

[Ducimus]

"...as they become available."

Does that mean that when a new boat type is available, you get moved to it, or just the option of taking a newer boat?

I liked SH3, where I could earn my way into a new boat, with the class being my choice, when I chose to upgrade. I'm a bit annoyed with SH4, where I'm offered an upgrade, and not given any sort of choice. It seems a bit broken to me, and I believe the level of brokeness has been demonstrated before.

This may explain things a bit:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1602175&postcount=10

[Daniel Prates]

I'm voting on climbing the ladder.

Actually, we are just discussing the medals issue in another current thread. It is my opinion that "medals, schmedals": give some sort of reward I can really enjoy. Having upgrades (even boat upgrades) is something worth fighting for.

[Dogfish40]

Ahoy
I like both. This past patrol I was offered the Gato and I took it but, after three patrols in the Salmon, I found it unbelievably hard to push the button. I miss the Salmon like it was a real boat. Fortunately, (and I beleive unrealistically) most of my crew came with me, which was unexpected.
My point is, I like upgrading, but I do get attached to particular boats.
Unbelievable for a game.
D40 :salute:

[razark]

Fortunately, (and I beleive unrealistically) most of my crew came with me, which was unexpected.
I'd like to see this issue addressed. I'd like to be able to have 1/4 or 1/3 of my crew replaced each patrol, and a new crew when I take a new boat.

I would even be happy if I could do it manually, but there's not enough crew in reserve for me to do it. Is there a way to increase the number of crew in the replacement pool?

[Armistead]

I would just prefer the option, not either or.

One issue I hate is when I want to keep the same boat eventually if I refuse a new boat, instead of keeping the old one, I get retired. I think it happened on my third refusal. Not sure if that's correct or maybe an issue I alone have.

[Ducimus]

I would just prefer the option, not either or.


Problem is the way the game is coded, when it rewards you, it offers you a refit, OR a new command. The trouble is, the way it behaves it's logic goes like this:

(pardon the psudo code but i think you get the idea)

If
NewCommand Available = true
Then
PlayerReward = newCommand
Else
PlayerReward = Refit.


So if you want refits to occur more often, you have to limit the number of new commands (Edit: or rather, Upgrade class availabilty). Right now, i think the chances of riding a gato or whatever and seeing it go through its 3 to 4 conning tower evolutions is next to nill.

[pabbi]

I like to start with S-boat but then when i get offered a fleet boat i like too stay with it.

[Ducimus]

For those who like to climb the ladder.

How would you define that ladder? Group the boats by which step you think they should come in.

[razark]

If
NewCommand Available = true
Then
PlayerReward = newCommand
Else
PlayerReward = Refit.
So, the problem is that it rarely hits the Else clause?


Just a thought, as I'm not too clear on how the game is set up:
Would it be possible to create a number of new playable units, with no refits available?

So instead of:
Class 1
-Refit 1
-Refit 2
-Refit 3
Class 2
-Refit 1
-Refit 2
Class 3
-Refit 1

You remove the refits, and make them basically different classes, with the refits included:
Class 1
Class 1, Refit 1
Class 1, Refit 2
Class 1, Refit 3
Class 2
Class 2, Refit 1
Class 2, Refit 2
Class 3
Class 3, Refit 1

[Ducimus]

That would be an utter nightmare to work out.

[Sailor Steve]

I don't expect to have a career that lasts the entire war, and I expect to stay with the same boat for the six or seven patrols that each career lasts.

[magic452]

I like working my way up from say an S boat or Porpoise to the Balao.

I like to see some reward for doing good, the medals don't do it so a new boat will.

Magic

[TorpX]

I like being able to earn the option of a new command, but I will usually start out in an S boat and make at least 4 or 5 patrols before I consider a new one. I think one should have at least that many patrols in a particular boat. It wouldn't seem right to move on to another boat too soon. :Kaleun_Crying:

[pabbi]

As i said i start with S-boat and take it out for 3 to 4 patrols, so by the time i should be offered a new class it would be something like May or June, there for i think Tambor or Gato should be realistic move.

[max-peck]

I generally enjoy starting in an S Boat or Porpoise, then moving up the ladder.

Makes me really appreciate a Gato when I get one. :yep:

[WernherVonTrapp]

Yup, I start in a Pigboat too. I'm a ladder man. It keeps things interesting for me.

[Dogfish40]

I'd like to see this issue addressed. I'd like to be able to have 1/4 or 1/3 of my crew replaced each patrol, and a new crew when I take a new boat.

I would even be happy if I could do it manually, but there's not enough crew in reserve for me to do it. Is there a way to increase the number of crew in the replacement pool?

Yeah, Even though you can dismiss members, the pool is often very shallow (that is to say there's not many replacements in the pool). One reason I didn't mind them coming along was the experience they accumulated. In fact, not too long after I set sail, two of my engine room crew got clovers. This is a first for me as I'd been playing 1.4 for so long ('cause of my computer at the time) so I like the fact that the experience came along with the men. However, I wanted to check out some new guys and the pool was "real shallow". I located a mod which will increase the number of officers to historical levels so I'm going to try it as soon as I hit port.
As for the Boats, as long as something is offered for a good patrol. The thing is, do you want to be more historically accurate, for instance; if they offer you a new boat in '42, historically it's gonna' be a Gato 'cause that was the boat they were building...mostly. So as far as getting some kind of choice, most Skippers were given their new commands and there was no choice.
I think it prolongs the interest of the game (for me) if it works the Navy way. They give me a command, I take it and say "thank you sir, Yes sir" and it's a Gato or whatever. Sometimes I like to turn down the new command just to see where that path might lead. This is a good topic, thanks Ducimus!
Good Hunting :salute:
D40

[razark]

The thing is, do you want to be more historically accurate, for instance; if they offer you a new boat in '42, historically it's gonna' be a Gato 'cause that was the boat they were building...mostly. So as far as getting some kind of choice, most Skippers were given their new commands and there was no choice.
Well, if the skipper of a Porpoise or Sargo is given a desk job or a new Gato, someone would be taking command of the old boat. Just like when I give up my boat for the shiny new Gato, they're not going to scrap my old boat right there at Pearl. So, there should be some old boats being passed on to other captains. (At least until it's time for the old boats to be sent to training duty.)


As for the "choice", I suppose it really comes down to a "rule of fun". I like to work my way up from the older boats. It gives a sense of progress that the medals don't. I suppose that if someone could make the refits work properly, it might suffice, but for now it seems the only progression is from one boat to a newer one.

Also, sometimes I might want to stick with my old boat for a bit longer. If I turn down the first chance to get a new boat, how long will it be until I'm offered another new boat? I'd like to see it set up so that if I choose not to take the new one, I can choose to do so after each subsequent patrol, instead of waiting for the insane upgrade logic to offer it to me.

[commandosolo2009]

I think realism dictates a shift of boats, but only if you're the exec, not the captain. The Captain deserves the right to keep his boat, or at least, share it with a new commander. And based on what I read, 5 patrols are enough if we consider ourselves as execs... But clearly, were doing all the work...


How come that ubisoft never considered a SH5 styled fps gameplay for American boats, when they clearly considered a remake for the German ones. If I had money, I'd hire dan and make a new SH5 Fleet boat expansion... At least I would be in the shoes of a real American skipper.

[Daniel Prates]

I think realism dictates a shift of boats, but only if you're the exec, not the captain. The Captain deserves the right to keep his boat, or at least, share it with a new commander. And based on what I read, 5 patrols are enough if we consider ourselves as execs... But clearly, were doing all the work...


How come that ubisoft never considered a SH5 styled fps gameplay for American boats, when they clearly considered a remake for the German ones. If I had money, I'd hire dan and make a new SH5 Fleet boat expansion... At least I would be in the shoes of a real American skipper.

Oh yeah... never thought of that. Captains would only get new boats alltogether if they're own ship were decomissioned or retired or something, right? Otherwise, entirely new ships would have their captains drafted from the number two's list. Is it so?

[TorpX]

What kind of time frame is at work here? If you get a newly commisioned boat, how long before you make a war patrol? In RL, it took months before a new boat was considered ready for combat. If a Captain or XO was considered a good man, but maybe in need of a rest, he might be posted to a new boat stateside. He would have leave, be able to spend some time with his wife/girlfriend, then spend months getting the new boat (and crew) ready for action, before going back to Pearl or Australia. The point I'm making is that there are factors beyond just whether or not you get a new boat or an old boat.

[Dogfish40]

Well, if the skipper of a Porpoise or Sargo is given a desk job or a new Gato, someone would be taking command of the old boat. Just like when I give up my boat for the shiny new Gato, they're not going to scrap my old boat right there at Pearl. So, there should be some old boats being passed on to other captains. (At least until it's time for the old boats to be sent to training duty.)


As for the "choice", I suppose it really comes down to a "rule of fun". I like to work my way up from the older boats. It gives a sense of progress that the medals don't. I suppose that if someone could make the refits work properly, it might suffice, but for now it seems the only progression is from one boat to a newer one.

Also, sometimes I might want to stick with my old boat for a bit longer. If I turn down the first chance to get a new boat, how long will it be until I'm offered another new boat? I'd like to see it set up so that if I choose not to take the new one, I can choose to do so after each subsequent patrol, instead of waiting for the insane upgrade logic to offer it to me.

Yes,
I refused a new boat on my last computer's campaign. I went to Java then Freemantle all the while racking up more and more points...but never got offered another boat. So I went through the next two patrols with no promotions or "new boats", no boat upgrades and frankly I started to regret not taking the Gato, but I wanted to stay in the south pacific theatre. On this campaign I took the Gato when it was offered on the third patrol. So I guess as far as "choice" goes, there is somewhat. Yeah, it also seems like an awful long time to get any boat upgrades. By the time they cut down my conning tower, or give me radar I'm already accustomed to the current equipment. (Listen to me...I sound like a skipper griping at some bar in Honolulu :O:)
Good Hunting Mate
D40 :salute:

[magic452]

Yeah, it also seems like an awful long time to get any boat upgrades. By the time they cut down my conning tower, or give me radar I'm already accustomed to the current equipment. (Listen to me...I sound like a skipper griping at some bar in Honolulu :O:)

Sounds like standard military procedure to me.
Pretty good simulation isn't it? :D

Magic

[Anthony W.]

I usually start in a Gar, then move to a Gato, then move to a clam shell on the bottom of the ocean :D

:salute:

[Weiss Pinguin]

I usually start in a sugar boat, and if I survive long enough I take the new command. After 4 or so patrols in an S-class I can appreciate the new Gatos and Balaos. :arrgh!: If I were to start off in a fleet boat from Pearl, though, I would probably stick with it, unless I was in a Porpoise or something and was offered something really nice.

I usually did the same thing in SHIII, starting off in a Type II and moving up as soon as I could.

[commandosolo2009]

Oh yeah... never thought of that. Captains would only get new boats alltogether if they're own ship were decomissioned or retired or something, right? Otherwise, entirely new ships would have their captains drafted from the number two's list. Is it so?

But then again, the navy is not a private ownership firm, it's not like you get stuck with one boat for the entire lifetime. Someday, they have to let you go, either of age, performance, or even a tragic loss. However in RSRD (movie) I wonder how the navy got Clark Gable a new boat after he lost his at the Bungo Straits... Odd... But maybe he was too good to be retired.

[Daniel Prates]

... I wonder how the navy got Clark Gable a new boat after he lost his at the Bungo Straits... Odd...

Maybe his dashing moustache made the difference.

[commandosolo2009]

Maybe his dashing moustache made the difference.

Of course!!! Navy pencil pushers are primarily the opp sex... Its all a grand scheme to get rid of us - men... :03:

[Daniel Prates]

:haha:

[sharkbit]

I don't expect to have a career that lasts the entire war, and I expect to stay with the same boat for the six or seven patrols that each career lasts.

I'm with Steve on this. I generally stick with the same boat for 6 or seven patrols befor being "sent" home for a much needed rest. Then I'll start a new career from close to that point in time.

:)

[Stealhead]

I'm with Steve and sharkbit I most times run a 6 or 7 patrol career in the same boat after that I am ready for a different location,starting date,boat, and often a change of sides as well.

I dont think I have ever run a career start to finish of the war even when changing boats never seemed realistic to me no one stays in combat for that long without getting promoted to a desk job or as an instructor or getting killed or wounded luck does not last that long in wars.

[Daniel Prates]

Agreed with the previous. It's all about replayability.

[Stealhead]

Also at least with me I have other games that I like so many times 1 week(when I get the time to play) it might be SH4 the next week I will be messing around with Fallout 3 or New Vegas the next week something else.Sometimes it might be a while before I get back to a certain game.

I suppose it just is with the player themselves for some playing the entire war feels like an achievement or goal for the game for others the goal is different for
me I just enjoy playing as one crew (I see myself as the entire crew rather than the skipper or the boat) for several patrols.

[f4wildweasel]

I usually grab new ones when they're offered. Mainly because when I start I pick an S-boat thinking ""yeah I'm hardcore who needs thermal layers or stern tubes?" and then after a couple patrols I'm thinking "dear god get me OUT of this deathtrap!"
Once I tried to attack the Borneo invasion fleet with an S-boat. They hit me with active sonar and it was too shallow for a crash dive. After a couple DC passes, I get hit with one on the stern and it blows off my rudder. So I realized that, if somehow I survive this, my only option will be to run aground in Brunei. A second barrage of DCs across my boat's midsection answered that for me...

As for the U-boat campaign... I really like those twin 37mm AA guns on the IX, so I usually keep it. I went for the Walther boat once, and it was fun and all, but I still liked the IX a bit more.

[aanker]

With the exception of the TAMBOR and GAR classes I divide the boats in my mind into two categories; pre 7 Dec 1941 and post 7 Dec 1941 - the GATO and BALAO classes.

I don't mind beginning in a PORPOISE, SALMON, or SARGO class, and I enjoy the S class 'Sugar boats' (also the NARWHAL class) however I like getting into a command where I can evade IJN ASW - especially later in the War after Congressman May told the press our submarines could go deeper than the IJN DC's were set to detonate. So, I want to go deep although USS Tuna is just one example with many successful war patrols beyond her years under my simplistic categories mentioned above.

Once I am in a nice fleet-boat I like to go through the evolutions in CT etc over many patrols like others have said in this thread.

Also, I voted 'wrong' because I thought this was your 'Super-Detail' topic - which it isn't, but is one I would really like to see - take one class and super detail it ;-)

Happy Hunting!

Art

[tomoose]

I'd like to "climb the ladder" but I've found, more than once, that getting a new boat means you can lose precious capability (i.e. my old boat had surface radar and the new boat does not and you CANNOT install it no matter how many reknown points you have, very annoying). For that reason alone I will stay with my boat as long as the game will let me.