Some Points / Questions About Depth

[Stevepine]

OK, So this might just be me but I dont think so ...

1) Dive to 150 meters and then use external view. If you use the camera to look down at your sub from the surface then, to me, it doesnt look as deep as it should. Just using my perception of depth and distance from real life... I would say your sub at 150 meters depth in game actually looks like its only about 80 meters down. Anyone else see this?


2) What was the real depth at which pressure would start to damage a u boat?

I would love to be able to take my boat down to say 210 meters. I remember seeing an interview with Erich Topp the U boat commander and Im sure he said he sometimes went down below 200 meters to avoid depth charge attacks and even once to 250 meters.

I was thinking though that in SH5 going to 200 meters or deeper would probably make you 100% safe from Destroyers and DCs and I don't want that. So that raises a final question:

3) I wonder what was the maximum depth that depth charges could be a realistic danger and threat to a u-boat?


Would love to know what you guys think.

Good hunting.

[Rongel]

Hi, I can only answer to the first question!

Do you use some mod/shader that adds more transparent water? Like Shallow waters shader? I know it's included in Zedi's test campaings, and also as an optional mod in Dynamic environment. The shader used there makes the bottom of the sea visible, but also keeps the sub visible even if it's 150 meters deep. Ofcourse in reality this shouldn't be possible.

Stock game has quite nice water transparency, the bad thing is that imported ships won't be visible under water when looked above the waterline.

[Stevepine]

Hi, I can only answer to the first question!

Do you use some mod/shader that adds more transparent water? Like Shallow waters shader? I know it's included in Zedi's test campaings, and also as an optional mod in Dynamic environment. The shader used there makes the bottom of the sea visible, but also keeps the sub visible even if it's 150 meters deep. Ofcourse in reality this shouldn't be possible.

Stock game has quite nice water transparency, the bad thing is that imported ships won't be visible under water when looked above the waterline.

Hi Rongel,

thankyou for your thoughts and suggestion bro, :salute: hmm dont think it is the shader though because I even noticed this issue in SH3 aswell.

[Shadriss]

I did a lot of reading (a long time ago) on WWII US boats, and while I understand that we're talking the German side, I think the designs are similar enough that the depths should be similar.

First - a meter is ROUGHLY equal to 3 feet. I know thats not exact, but its close enough for this discussion. (3.3 is closer, but I hate decimals.) US Boats at the time didn't like going below about 350 feet, so call that about 117 meters. Theoretical crush depth was 600 ft (or about 180 meters). Now, in extremis, a boat skipper would try anything, so going deeper than that would still be an option if he felt he had no choice. Being DC'd would definately qualify.

200 meters (660 ft) would be seriously pushing it, and he likely went that far down simply because no Skimmer Skipper would think a U-boat would even try anything that deep. Hence, he's relatively safe. 210 (just short of 700 ft) is nearly insane. Note he only did that ONCE.

Now, all that said, the second part of that question is a much easier question. DC's are ALWAYS a realistic danger to a sub. No matter the depth. It isn't the depth that they are set to, but how CLOSE to the boat they explode. DCs rely purely on the shockwave to shake the sub apart. So, if the sub is at 210 meters, and the DCs are dropped to 210 meters, and they are close enough, they will be as nasty as they would be in shallower depths... in fact, they may be MORE effective given the non-compressability of water and the water pressure at that depth.

Hope that gives you some insight...

[Stevepine]

I did a lot of reading (a long time ago) on WWII US boats, and while I understand that we're talking the German side, I think the designs are similar enough that the depths should be similar.

First - a meter is ROUGHLY equal to 3 feet. I know thats not exact, but its close enough for this discussion. (3.3 is closer, but I hate decimals.) US Boats at the time didn't like going below about 350 feet, so call that about 117 meters. Theoretical crush depth was 600 ft (or about 180 meters). Now, in extremis, a boat skipper would try anything, so going deeper than that would still be an option if he felt he had no choice. Being DC'd would definately qualify.

200 meters (660 ft) would be seriously pushing it, and he likely went that far down simply because no Skimmer Skipper would think a U-boat would even try anything that deep. Hence, he's relatively safe. 210 (just short of 700 ft) is nearly insane. Note he only did that ONCE.

Now, all that said, the second part of that question is a much easier question. DC's are ALWAYS a realistic danger to a sub. No matter the depth. It isn't the depth that they are set to, but how CLOSE to the boat they explode. DCs rely purely on the shockwave to shake the sub apart. So, if the sub is at 210 meters, and the DCs are dropped to 210 meters, and they are close enough, they will be as nasty as they would be in shallower depths... in fact, they may be MORE effective given the non-compressability of water and the water pressure at that depth.

Hope that gives you some insight...

Thanks for the reply! really interesting to see those crush depth figures you gave.

With regard to the D. charges I was just thinking that deeper would be safer because... surely the deeper the sub is the harder it must be for a destroyer to drop charges accurately and with precision?

Therefore I was wondering how dangerous DCs could really be to a U boat at a 180 - 200 meters. Would be quite hard for the destroyer to drop them down to that depth accurately I think. (although im sure a really skilled destroyer crew could manage it)

Plus in SH5 , Im sure the AI would need tweaking to make DC s accurate at that kind of depth??

[TheDarkWraith]

Plus in SH5 , Im sure the AI would need tweaking to make DC s accurate at that kind of depth??

They are accurate to whatever is specified in the .sim (or .zon) file for the DCs (DepthPrecision)

[Shadriss]

I think he was refering to IRL, TDW.

On on that front, DCs of WWII were set to detonate on timers, as I recall. All one had to know was how fast the sink rate was, so some quick calculations, and set the timer.

ALternately, they may have detonated on a pressure sensor. Since pressure is a constant as you go deeper (IE< the pressure for 100 ft will ALWAYS be the pressure for 100 feet, no matter where you are in the world...), all you'd have to do is, again, set it's depth (pressure) timer.

Accuracy is another thing altogether. Especially in that era, Active Sonars were of limited use. (Actually, that's still true today... for referance, I am an USN STS1/SS on the ALABAMA atm...). They can give a real good indication of bearing and range, but depth is pretty much a guessing game.

That said, as I kind of hinted at in my first reply, ships are known to use given depth bands. WWII boats just cruising around rarely went deeper than about 200 feet. During a periscope attack on a surface convoy or singleton, he'll stick with PD as much as possible, and then if forced go deep to the depths we talked about earlier. However, because he's speed limited (dont want to be TOO loud, after all...) his ability to change depth quickly is hampered. So, if you have a good idea of range and bearing, and a good feel for how long it's been since he left PD (or if he's still there), you can make a pretty good educated guess.

[Stevepine]

I think he was refering to IRL, TDW.

On on that front, DCs of WWII were set to detonate on timers, as I recall. All one had to know was how fast the sink rate was, so some quick calculations, and set the timer.

ALternately, they may have detonated on a pressure sensor. Since pressure is a constant as you go deeper (IE< the pressure for 100 ft will ALWAYS be the pressure for 100 feet, no matter where you are in the world...), all you'd have to do is, again, set it's depth (pressure) timer.

Accuracy is another thing altogether. Especially in that era, Active Sonars were of limited use. (Actually, that's still true today... for referance, I am an USN STS1/SS on the ALABAMA atm...). They can give a real good indication of bearing and range, but depth is pretty much a guessing game.

That said, as I kind of hinted at in my first reply, ships are known to use given depth bands. WWII boats just cruising around rarely went deeper than about 200 feet. During a periscope attack on a surface convoy or singleton, he'll stick with PD as much as possible, and then if forced go deep to the depths we talked about earlier. However, because he's speed limited (dont want to be TOO loud, after all...) his ability to change depth quickly is hampered. So, if you have a good idea of range and bearing, and a good feel for how long it's been since he left PD (or if he's still there), you can make a pretty good educated guess.

Thanks ,that's really insightful. I didnt know that when they set the depth for depth charges it was done so much on pure timing and instinct.