Hydrophone fix?

[Adooo]

Hi. I have some questions about the hydrophone...

I know it was bugged before TDW fixed it but i would like to know how is it working now...How is the range calculated?

Example : Lets say there is a convoy with 10 ships. I have noticed that the range is always reported for just 1 of those 10 ships, no matter what bearing i choose at the hydrophone...If i put it at bearing 10 range is 2100 if i put it at bearing 30 and click on range again it is still the same 2100....so i guess it can only report for just 1 ship from those 10, nearest one? u sure? ...

I had a situation today... the closest ship was at 1870 range when i checked with stadimeter (twice :) and went to hydrophone and asked for report nearest contact , estimate/precise range, the bearing was correct but the range was like 2400 with TDC off and like 3200 estimate/ 6000 precise with TDC on so nothing correct WTF? Did all checks within 10 secs so the ship could not move away too much so i guess the range was for a different ship from the convoy and not the closest one?

Also another question...Why are the range calculations different if u have TDC off or on?

If i remember right in SH4 u could get a precise range for every ship in the convoy, depending on what bearing u choose at the hydrophone...

Is it possible to fix the hydrophone so that it is showing the range depending on what bearing(ship) u choose? Would be a great thing!

Note : I have no problems if there is only 1 ship but it is impossible to hunt a convoy using only hydro.....

Using sh5.exe patched to v0.0.3, MO(patched), TDW 6.5.0, IRAI, Real navigation etc...

[jwilliams]

The Hydrophone on German uboats was not used to calculate range, using the method you described. As uboats had no ability to ping the target, and for this reason I've never used the feature that some UI's adds to the game.

So IMO there is only one thing wrong with the hydrophone and that is that it allows you to ping the target.

If you want to calculate range to target using the hydrophone, try this method. ------> The four bearing method (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=179137)

and stoianm's... How to use the 4 bearing method in SH5 video tutorial ----> Link (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1632956&postcount=38)

[Trevally.]

Some info on active sonar

German U-boats of WW2 DID have active sonar..they just did not use it and it was eventually removed.

The type VII was fitted with active sonar in the mid 40 time frame.It was a revolving
transducer like the KBT mount seen later in the war.The reasons that it was removed later on and that we don't hear of U-boats using active sonar are as follows:

1. It was a 'trainable' device not an 'array' like the GHG so it had relatively short range...only 3000-4000 meters under good conditions. The passive GHG could hear an individual ship at around 20000 meters and a convoy at approx 100nm
(again these are under ideal conditions). An active 'array' would have given much greater range (probably out to 15000 meters).

2. Allied escorts could hear the active pulses and home in on them from well beyond the sonars effective range.

3. It was not as sophisticated as the 'Neiubling' system on the type XXI and was not linked into the U-boats fire control system like the 'Neiubling' was. This meant that it took a relatively long time to figure out a targets course/speed etc using the sonar...all the time transmitting and letting the escorts know where you are.
The XXI soanar needed as few as 3 pings to determine target speed/course which was fed directley to the fire control system allowing the tactic called 'deep directed shooting'. The tactics which where devised by test group 'Sultan' for the XXI were these. The target would be located at long range by the GHG and teh U-boat positioned on a interceot course. As the strength of the contact on the GHG
increased and the GHG operator thought that the target was withing 10000 meters the 'Neiubling' was switched on to 'listen only' mode. The system had a cathode ray screen to diplay all contacts and in 'listen only' mode it displayed ocean noise. When the propellor noise of the ship/s could be seen on the screen (as a regular series of spikes across the bottom of the screen - the beats of the propellor blades - the set was switched to 'active' and several pulses sent out.

4. As the allies increasingly used radar to spot surfaced U-boats the U-boats started carrying radar warning devices. The associated electronics cabinets had to go somewhere and the space used by the little used active sonar seemed like the ideal place.


http://www.uboat.net/forums/read.php?20,59905,60690

Also

http://www.uboataces.com/hydrophones.shtml

If you use TDWs UI, you can also learn "the four bearings method"
by running an ingame tutorial. See my sig:up:

[Jaguar]

Type XXIs were such a huge step forward. It´s capabilities never cease to surprise me:o.

[jwilliams]

Thanks for the info Trevally.
:salute:

[Trevally.]

Thanks for the info Trevally.
:salute:

:up:

For the active sonar in game:-

The depth under keel ping - can be heard by DDs:o so beware when using.
The range ping - is not detected. (hope TDW can fix this someday when he runs out of things to fix:D)

[Adooo]

I understand that it is not realistic to have the range info from the hydrophone and that u guys want 100% realism but this is a game and i play it to enjoy and where i enjoy is hunting with hydrophone only (used to it from SH4). Now, i dont have any problems at all to hunt a single ship but to hunt a convoy with hydro only is almost impossible atm. I have also tried the four bearings methode but without range info and using 4 bearings method u wont be able to hunt a convoy with hydro only because the sonar guy will not report the bearing for the same 1 ship. He will report the first bearing for the leading destroyer and after 5 mins he will (sometimes) report the bearing for the 2nd or 3rd merchant from the convoy or the side protecting destroyer etc...so u never know...

Another thing. Where is the problem in having options? If u are going for 100% realism nobody said u have to use the range option, its up to you but its a good thing to have different options...

I made this thread because it was really annoying when i was hunting my last convoy with hydro only. When u click on estimate range he gives u a range for 1 of those 10 ships from the convoy so u never know for sure for which one. I click on report nearest contact and he says bearing 30, after 3-4 mins he report me the nearest contact at bearing 77 and the convoy was heading from my right to my left side so WTF?

Anyways i would like to know (if anybody knows) the mechanics behind the hydrophone when hunting a convoy. For which ship is the range/bearing reported and on what is it depending? Why do you have different range calculations if TDC is on or off? I did some tests but cant say for sure...

Finally is it possible, can i change some file or settings to get the range calculated depending on what bearing(ship) i choose at the hydrophone? Currently, if the contact is at bearing 30 u can put the hydrophone at bearing 20 or 40 and the range will be reported for the same contact and thats where the problem is when hunting a convoy...Is it possible to lower this from 20 degrees to lets say 1,2 or 5 degrees so if u have 2 ships, 1 at bearing 10 and the other one at bearing 17 they are processed as 2 different contacts and not like 1 as it is the case atm? Anybody know if this can be done?

Thanks! :salute:

[jwilliams]

I understand that it is not realistic to have the range info from the hydrophone and that u guys want 100% realism but this is a game and i play it to enjoy and where i enjoy is hunting with hydrophone only (used to it from SH4). Now, i dont have any problems at all to hunt a single ship but to hunt a convoy with hydro only is almost impossible atm. I have also tried the four bearings methode but without range info and using 4 bearings method u wont be able to hunt a convoy with hydro only because the sonar guy will not report the bearing for the same 1 ship. He will report the first bearing for the leading destroyer and after 5 mins he will (sometimes) report the bearing for the 2nd or 3rd merchant from the convoy or the side protecting destroyer etc...so u never know...

The four bearing method will give you the exact position of the target. This includes its range from you, it's Speed, heading, Angle on bow, etc.

If you ask the sonar guy to "Follow nearest sound contact", he will follow the same 1 ship and report the same 1 ships postion as and when its in a new degree. Until either contact is lost, you ask for a nearest sound contact or you ask him to stop. This is how I plot my four bearing method and it seems to work for me.


Another thing. Where is the problem in having options? If u are going for 100% realism nobody said u have to use the range option, its up to you but its a good thing to have different options...

Yes I agree, I was not implying that you should not use the method you use, I was just offering a method that I know works (As your method seems to be flawed/bugged).


I made this thread because it was really annoying when i was hunting my last convoy with hydro only. When u click on estimate range he gives u a range for 1 of those 10 ships from the convoy so u never know for sure for which one. I click on report nearest contact and he says bearing 30, after 3-4 mins he report me the nearest contact at bearing 77 and the convoy was heading from my right to my left side so WTF?

Anyways i would like to know (if anybody knows) the mechanics behind the hydrophone when hunting a convoy. For which ship is the range/bearing reported and on what is it depending?

When you ask him to report the estimate range to contact, he reports the nearest contact... This may not be the target he reported before as there may now be a closer target.


Why do you have different range calculations if TDC is on or off? I did some tests but cant say for sure...

Is this on a single ship, or only in a convoy???
If its just a convoy, it may be reporting a different ship.
But I've never tested this.


Finally is it possible, can i change some file or settings to get the range calculated depending on what bearing(ship) i choose at the hydrophone? Currently, if the contact is at bearing 30 u can put the hydrophone at bearing 20 or 40 and the range will be reported for the same contact and thats where the problem is when hunting a convoy...Is it possible to lower this from 20 degrees to lets say 1,2 or 5 degrees so if u have 2 ships, 1 at bearing 10 and the other one at bearing 17 they are processed as 2 different contacts and not like 1 as it is the case atm? Anybody know if this can be done?

Thanks! :salute:

The problem is he reports the NEAREST SOUND CONTACT.

So what you want is him to report is "range to contact on my bearing"?

I beleive that the hydrophone is hard coded, (which is why TDW gave us the info to hex edit the .exe to fix the hydrophone).

Link to TDW patcher for hydrophone fix..... [TEC] SH5.exe patches to fix bugs and add functionality (How to patch your sh5.exe file for v0.0.1 (fixes broken hydrophone station) (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1621039&postcount=1)

[stoianm]

It is a way to use hydro to obtain range... it is not realistic but can be aplied only for a ship.... for a convoy it is not posible to track with hydro... and i have doubts you can do that changing cfg files or i dunno... this is hard coded

[Trevally.]

I have also tried the four bearings methode but without range info and using 4 bearings method u wont be able to hunt a convoy with hydro only because the sonar guy will not report the bearing for the same 1 ship. He will report the first bearing for the leading destroyer and after 5 mins he will (sometimes) report the bearing for the 2nd or 3rd merchant from the convoy or the side protecting destroyer etc...so u never know...


At long range - say 25km, I ask for "report sound contact" and use these
for bearings with 30 mins between. I find this gives you enough to get to
a good fiing possition and if targets ar not too close - enough info for solution.

If convoy is close or heading at me fast where there is a noticable spread
of sound contact. I use "follow nearest warship" command from the hydro
command officer. This will track the same target.
Problem here is when you move for you fourth bearing - you can lose contact.
Then it does become a guessing game.
Here I would always confirm my solution with visual checks.
if it was thick fog - I may hit with one out of four torps.

I assume you are also using the real nav mod.

[stoianm]

At long range - say 25km, I ask for "report sound contact" and use these
for bearings with 30 mins between. I find this gives you enough to get to
a good fiing possition and if targets ar not too close - enough info for solution.

If convoy is close or heading at me fast where there is a noticable spread
of sound contact. I use "follow nearest warship" command from the hydro
command officer. This will track the same target.
Problem here is when you move for you fourth bearing - you can lose contact.
Then it does become a guessing game.
Here I would always confirm my solution with visual checks.
if it was thick fog - I may hit with one out of four torps.

I assume you are also using the real nav mod.
Trevally... thanks for the ideea:DL... i will track only the DDs for convoy... i will use the hydro ping to find speed, course for convoy... i will put myself on fast 90 and i will hit only one ship on the convoy... this in heavy fog ofcource:D... but... it is a but... often the DDs speed is diferent from the rest of the convoy:hmmm:

[jwilliams]

Trevally... thanks for the ideea:DL... i will track only the DDs for convoy... i will use the hydro ping to find speed, course for convoy... i will put myself on fast 90 and i will hit only one ship on the convoy... this in heavy fog ofcource:D... but... it is a but... often the DDs speed is diferent from the rest of the convoy:hmmm:

Yes the DD's are a pain to track as they often patrol around the convoy, changing speed and course.

I find it annoying when I've been tracking the nearest sound contact and by the time I've got my fourth bearing, I notice/discover that I've been tracking an escort ship and my speed and heading of convoy is wrong.:damn:

It makes it more rewarding when you get it right though. :yep:

[stoianm]

Yes the DD's are a pain to track as they often patrol around the convoy, changing speed and course.

I find it annoying when I've been tracking the nearest sound contact and by the time I've got my fourth bearing, I notice/discover that I've been tracking an escort ship and my speed and heading of convoy is wrong.:damn:

It makes it more rewarding when you get it right though. :yep:
I tested and it is working... i used the hydro ping and i found the course and the speed of a convoy in heavy fog tracking the nearest war ship contact... i puted myself in 90 degrees... i fixed my tdc for fast 90... and i sunked a ship from that convoy... all this at -19 metters submerged:DL

[jwilliams]

I tested and it is working... i used the hydro ping and i found the course and the speed of a convoy in heavy fog tracking the nearest war ship contact... i puted myself in 90 degrees... i fixed my tdc for fast 90... and i sunked a ship from that convoy... all this at -19 metters submerged:DL

You know what I'm going to say now, don't you.

That's right......Stoianm's cheating again!!!

:O:

The ping is too accurate.... It's surposed to be an estimate to contact, not a precise range to contact. :nope:

[stoianm]

You know what I'm going to say now, don't you.

That's right......Stoianm's cheating again!!!

:O:

The ping is too accurate.... It's surposed to be an estimate to contact, not a precise range to contact. :nope:
I did not cheat... i have a very good hydro... last generation... just discovered by hitler savants... and my hydro sound guy has made his studies at Harward... he is very talented:arrgh!:

[Adooo]

Now u know where the fun is hehe. The best thing here is indeed the challenge and yea a lot more rewarding when you succeed but can be also damn annoying :cry:

[sarkhumar]

I would like to patch ....but hex editor seems only work for 32 bits. Any idea about similar tool but applicable 64 b ? :hmmm:

[unionemerald]

Try this one (SH5 Patcher by TheDarkWraith):



http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=468&pictureid=3851


SH5 Patcher v1.1 available here: http://www.gamefront.com/files/20162...SH5_Patcher_7z (http://www.gamefront.com/files/20162641/TDW_SH5_Patcher_7z)

[sarkhumar]

mmm :hmmm: not sure If I understand....

for fix hidro I see 2 patches.....

sh5.exe patch (hydro) v0.0.1
sh5 patcher....

Is the same upgraded to V2 tha last one ? or I would need to install both ? in which order ?

my soap mod list is ...

Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
[C:\Ubisoft\Silent Hunter 5\MODS]
Magnum_Opus_v0_0_1
Anti-Lag
nVidia missing lights
Original map colors
Spanish
FX_Update_0_0_16_2_ByTheDarkWraith
FX_Update_0_0_16_2_UHS_Fix
IRAI_0_0_30_ByTheDarkWraith
IRAI_0_0_30_No_hydrophone_on_surface_No_Aircraft_s potting
NewUIs_TDC_6_5_1_ByTheDarkWraith
Manos Scopes-patch for 16x9
Depth_Keeping_Problem_UHS_patch_HB_1_0_0_TheDarkWr aith
AirTorpedoes
TheDarkWraith_DC_Water_Disturbance_v4_0_SH3
NewUIs_TDC_6_5_1_Real_Navigation
NewUIs_TDC_6_5_1_U-Jagd_Chrono
Church's SHV 1.01 Keyboard Commands v1.1
Church's Compass Dials Mod v2.2 - Option Two
Church's NavMap v1.0 - Illyustrator's Version
Kriegsmarine Grid Map for MO and TDW UIs by stoianm
EQuaTool 01.01 by AvM - double set - Large plus Flat Style
AOB slide ruller for TDW UIs and MO by stoianm
Critical hits 1.1 Torpedos
Old Style Explosions V1.1
SteelViking's Sky Banding Mod
Trevally Automated Scripts v0.5
Trevally Harbour & Kiel Canal Pilot v2.5
Trevally Tutorials - All v0.2 (for TDW UI)
Trevally TDC Help v2
gap - HD 1 deg Scope Bearing v 1.0
SOAN - ship data
SD_MapCourseLine_tiny_arrows_ocred
SD_MapLocationNameFix_v1_2

I'm pending to include some graphical mods, sounds mods and of course dynamic environment ...but for now I have this.

Please could you recommend me a program to edit using a windows 7 64 bits ? I dont trust in those programs I can see in the net so any recommendation would be welcome....

thanks in advance

[unionemerald]

If you want to keep it simple, just download the SH5 patcher and unzip it. Open the map, and you will see 4 files. Click on SH5Patcher, click on file, click on open, and you will see the file TDW_SH5_Patches. Open this file, and you will see the screen from my first post.This is the Patcher. Here you can adjust the Broken Hydrophone Fix, the Real Navigation menu.txt entries and the Map Colors you want to change. (Take a look at the treads about these subjects)!
"Items in red text are double clickable. Thus if double clicked you active it. For the IsColor it will open a color dialog box allowing you to select the new color (and view the current color). The Enabled will either apply/remove the current Change x patch to the sh5.exe file."
When you use this Patcher, you don't need a hex editor to change these values.

[sarkhumar]

ok, thanks so much unionemerald. :up:

I see in patch only need to be changed the colours as patch 1 and 2 are already set up by TDW.

But when I opened I can only do it with Notepad so I do not see your screen example...I can change in text format or I do need some special program ? sorry for many questions but even I do not find threats with examples to apply some colours....:wah:

[unionemerald]

Sorry :oops:, but I forgot to mention one thing.

Take a look at this post:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1628576&postcount=143

[sarkhumar]

ok, plase would be appreciated if confirm if I have done its correct :

- open de TDW sh5 patches with Notepad and change the patch as per my original path in sh5 :
Path=c:\Ubisoft\Silent Hunter 5\ and save and close
- open de SH5 patcher and apply File / Open / TDW SH5 patches ...then appear the screen you show above post.
questions :
1- if close this file...no message is displayed about 'save' file or similar...becasue when I re-open I need to do it again. :-?
2 - I need to replace my orginal exe for this one ?
3 - I do need only enable this mod ? because as only seems changed the TDW sh5 patches with new path not sure if I'm doing its correct....

too many doubts from my side...may be i'm a bit stupid...sorry...if you can help me would be great...

[sarkhumar]

more questions....do I need to change manually in TDW sh5 patcher any data related patch 1 and 2 ?

[PATCH 1]
Name=Broken hydrophone fix
Description=Fixes the broken hydrophone station
[CHANGE 1]
ChangeDescription=
Offset=197A4A
Length=1
OldValue=75
NewValue=74
Prompt=1
Verify=1
IsColor=0
[ENDCHANGE 1]

this patch appears with changes applied--bytes from '75' to '74' according below post from TDW...so seems no need to do anyhting manually with this....

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1621039&postcount=1
-------------------------------
Name=Real nav menu.txt entries
Description=References new entries in menu.txt when real navigation enabled for Hydrophone
[CHANGE 1]
ChangeDescription=unknown.txt ?
Offset=A8C43
Length=1
OldValue=34
NewValue=3A
Prompt=1
Verify=1
IsColor=0
[ENDCHANGE 1]
[CHANGE 2]
ChangeDescription=warship.txt ?
Offset=A8C4F
Length=1
OldValue=35
NewValue=3B
Prompt=1
Verify=1
IsColor=0
[ENDCHANGE 2]
[CHANGE 3]
ChangeDescription=merchant.txt ?
Offset=A8C5B
Length=1
OldValue=36
NewValue=3C
Prompt=1
Verify=1
IsColor=0
[ENDCHANGE 3]

about this patch...the values appears already changed according same post from TDW but not sure If I need to change manually the 'description' as per below ones :

826=Unknown
827=Warship
828=Merchant
829=Submarine

I have indicated with question marks if descriptions are according the expected ones....
......................

for patch colours not sure how can be changed as I do not see 'save' option when i do changes in SH% patcher....

[sarkhumar]

and to enable correctly using GME....i need to enable full folder named 'TDW SH5 Patcher' ? because I see in some soap mods from others captains only SH5 patch ...is the same ? :o

I'm totally crazy now...time to get a coffee...:hmmm:

[sarkhumar]

well..first test..failing....

I have applied following changes :

- open de TDW sh5 patches with Notepad and change the patch as per my original path in sh5 :
Path=c:\Ubisoft\Silent Hunter 5\ and save and close

- open de SH5 patcher and apply File / Open / TDW SH5 patches ...then appear specific screen.
changes :
patch 1 : no changes...I have not activated nothing...
patch 2 : changes only in descriptcion in notepad...
[CHANGE 1]
ChangeDescription=unknown.txt
[CHANGE 2]
ChangeDescription=warship.txt
[CHANGE 3]
ChangeDescription=merchant.txt
patch 3 : no changes by now...

I have installed full folder contaning 4 files...and when I continue a patrol...I do not have real navigation...:doh: or even when I start a new one..

any help ? :salute:

[unionemerald]

I think you're not the only one who is getting a little bit confused!
With the patcher, you can fix the hydrophone, change the entries for real navigation in the menu.txt, and if wanted change the map colors. (Read the link to the post of TheDarkWraith in my last post,) The red colored items need to be doubleclicked to change them (enable them), and afterwards, just keep the patcher somewhere on your hard drive. No need to save it or to put it in your Silent Hunter directory or to put it in your Mods file. Just change the values in red and close the Patcher. Don't change any other things! TheDarkWraith made it easy to everyone by making this Patcher.
Maybe things become al itlle bit clearer, when you completely read this thread:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=181433&page

[sarkhumar]

ok , thanks again.

In reference text description...these are the correct ones ?

patch 2 : changes only in descriptcion in notepad...?
[CHANGE 1]
ChangeDescription=unknown.txt
[CHANGE 2]
ChangeDescription=warship.txt
[CHANGE 3]
ChangeDescription=merchant.txt

As I see 'submarine' description in original post I do not have very clear....

In any case, please be sure I'm reading again and again that post....but sometimes is referred hidrofone fix 'sh5.exe patch (hydro) v0.0.1' sometimes this last one fix .....

but well, my understanding then is :
- unzip the file
- change the path in TDW sh5 patches with Notepad according my original path for SH5
- no need to substitute any exe file.
- no need to leave this patcher in my original path...
- modifications only indicating 'text descriptions' and 'changing colours' .
- and that's all...

will try this afternoon....

thanks so much for your help :up:

[unionemerald]

I think you're almost there. :up:
I believe that when you are using TheDarkWraith's NewUIs 6.5.1, the two first items are already fixed, but I'm not shure about it, because I don't use it. The only thing then where you can use the Patcher for, is when you want to change the line colors in the maps.
Maybe some of the skippers here who are using this mod can help you a little bit more than I can.